Social Media Becomes the New Front In Mexico's Drug War

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Social Media Becomes the New Front In Mexico's Drug War

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday April 1, 2014 @06:09PM from the hashtag-i'm-the-one-who-knocks dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The drug cartels operating in Mexico have often been compared to large corporations, with their own codified leadership hierarchy, recruitment methods, and accounting practices. But part of any big corporation's playbook is a marketing/PR plan. The cartels have long operated a version of those, too, by threatening journalists and killing civilians who speak up. Like any corporation these days, the drug cartels have recognized the power of social media, and they're using it more and more to propagate their messages of intimidation and violence. Quoting: 'Six days after Beltran Leyva's death, gunmen murdered family members of the only Mexican marine killed in the apartment complex siege — including the marine's mother. That same day, a fire was set at a nearby school where a banner was flown, warning that more killings would follow if the federal government made any further attempts to interfere in cartel actions. Photos of the school were then tweeted and shared in status updates — a reply to images of Beltran Leyva's corpse being shared on social media.'"

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Mandate real names, a great idea. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 18:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sometimes good folks have something to hide. Their identities from bad folks.
I wonder what their grannies think. by swamp_ig · 2014-04-01 18:31 · Score: 1

I hope the local police / government doesn't give in to this intimidation. What's next?
1. Re:I wonder what their grannies think. by SuricouRaven · 2014-04-01 19:12 · Score: 1
  
  Demands for more funding and more prison space, of course.
2. Re:I wonder what their grannies think. by Solandri · 2014-04-01 20:37 · Score: 1
  
  A lot of the police/government are on the cartels' payroll.
  
  That's the problem with endemic corruption. If you try to fix just one part of it, the other parts resist. You have to somehow simultaneously fix all of it.
3. Re:I wonder what their grannies think. by BitZtream · 2014-04-01 23:44 · Score: 1
  
  Local police?
  Government?
  The cartel killed the local police and turned the local government into slaves years ago.
  Mexico makes Somali look like a day care.
  The mexican military either works for/with them, or is deathly afraid of them ... because they'll kill you ... your mother and 3 generations in every direction from you, and then ... then they threaten to get nasty.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
4. Re:I wonder what their grannies think. by meta-monkey · 2014-04-02 02:07 · Score: 2
  
  And they have to be. If you're a new cop who's gonna "make a difference!" and "fight drugs!" in Mexico, what happens right after you start walking your beat is a dude pulls you aside and says, "hey, friend, there's two ways we can do this. You take this money right here, and we'll make sure your block is safe, your home is safe, or, you refuse to take this money and we kill you, but not until we chop off the heads and rip out the tongues of every person you love. So, which is it gonna be, pal? You gonna be well-fed, safe and happy? Right? Good choice, friend. Good choice."
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Re:Same as the US TLAs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 18:40 · Score: 4, Informative

One of them has a vested interest in ensuring that drugs remain illegal so there's no risk in losing their major source of profit, and the other isnt affiliated in government in any way.
just track em by invictusvoyd · 2014-04-01 18:41 · Score: 1

and use the content as evidence for criminal intimidation and the etc. !!!!
To think of it ..social media ?? pfft .. the firey banner seems more "cartely" ..
1. Re:just track em by PPH · 2014-04-02 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  Won't do much good. The social media officers in these cartels are expendable. Track one by their login credentials and apprehend them. And they'll just be replaced by the next one.
  They won't turn on their employers either. The cartel penalty for testifying is far worse then that for not cooperating with the authorities.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
Lawmakers need to do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 18:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

All it would take is a single strike of the pen to remove the cartels' entire purpose for existing, along with the massive societal benefits of no more overcrowding in prisons, no more lives being ruined because of absurd and unjust laws, the possible breakthroughs which can never happen so long as the research is illegal, and the reversal of the militarization of police forces around the country. Prohibition is a proven failure, and factually creates criminals out of innocent people and problems where there were none before.
There is absolutely no benefit to prohibition (and even if there were, they're negligible compared to all the problems it creates) - it should be repealed immediately.
1. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by phantomfive · 2014-04-01 19:04 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  No, it's not about drugs, because Canada has all the same drug trafficking issues, but without the violence (really, look up the estimates of how much marijuana comes to the US from Canada).
  
  Mexico has had violence and gangs of some sort or another for hundreds of years. Just think of the legendary El Guapo and Santa Ana, about whom songs have been written.
  
  When drugs are gone, you still have the kidnappings and the corruption. People in the US get upset when the police taze someone; compare that to Mexican police.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
2. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by pitchpipe · 2014-04-01 20:19 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  When drugs are gone, you still have the kidnappings and the corruption.
  I really doubt that you would have it on the same level as we have it today, but I don't think that is the reason to legalize drugs.
  We should legalize drugs because it is the right thing to do. The drug laws are a relic of the past when people thought that it was okay to legislate their brand of morality. We now know that drug prohibition causes much more harm than good, and so that makes it dangerous and wrong to continue down the prohibition path. The war on drugs is a failure, and to keep pushing for these laws either means that you're insane, or you want to manipulate the public or are being manipulated.
  I do think that as a side benefit of legalization we will see less violence and criminal activity by the cartels, less money to corrupt politicians, less money to buy arms, less money to pay muscle, etc. etc, but of course we won't see these benefits if we don't even try.
  
  --
  Look where all this talking got us, baby.
3. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by DNS-and-BIND · 2014-04-01 21:06 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Ah, yes, as soon as I saw this topic I knew someone would be along to blame it all on America.
  Can you imagine a world without America? There wouldn't be *any* problems, anywhere. Especially in Mexico, all of whose problems are entirely caused by the "gringos" (foreigners). Amazing, eh? When America blames its problems on foreigners, it's a ruse to divert attention from the real problems...but when Mexico does it it's different. Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to America.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
4. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by quantaman · 2014-04-01 21:57 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Take their main source of money away and they have to move to other enterprises to keep their organization alive.
  Kidnappings-blackmail-ransom, selling organs, child prostitution, weapon trafficking, assassinations, protection rackets, robbery maybe? & etc
  Depends on how far one is willing to go really.
  They sell drugs because the money is easiest and they have a competitive advantage with a large organization (manufacturing, retails, supply chains, etc). If you take the drugs away the replacement rackets are lower revenue and require smaller orgs. Both factors that reduce the size of the operations.
  You'll still have organized crime but not the kind that grows to the scale of a large retail chain.
  
  --
  I stole this Sig
5. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  You don't understand the nature of organized crime. It is not about legality or illegality of its merchandise, it is about establishing and keeping a monopoly over any highly lucrative business, using pressure by force and terror. Once you remove the nominal reason to keep them outlawed, they will own governments openly and keep upping the oppression over population. They will only grow in strength by having on their payroll not just their trusty henchmen but also their former adversaries, payed from other people's (our) money.
6. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by hjf · 2014-04-01 23:11 · Score: 2
  
  Opium was legal in China. How did that work?
7. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by geekmux · 2014-04-01 23:31 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Opium was legal in China. How did that work?
  The same way it worked for hundreds of years in the United States before they started making things like laudanum(opium) and marijuana illegal. And these products weren't just sitting in your grandpas stash box. They were in the family medicine cabinet, and marketed as such.
  Moderation is key with anything in life, and we certainly try and make that statement with all other legal but highly addictive products like tobacco and alcohol. I don't see why legalizing other drugs would or should be treated any differently. Marijuana is already on its way to legalization, and opium is very much welcome in the United States in the form of the trillion-dollar industry that is opiate-based painkillers. They went straight past drug reform and just made it completely legal and controlled. A bottle of opium is only a government-subsidized $5 script away for most, which explains the growing problem with painkiller addiction.
  Moderation doesn't work very well for the ignorant.
8. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by TapeCutter · 2014-04-02 00:04 · Score: 2
  
  The US already have a mandatory treatment program for non-violent addicts and pot heads, they put them in jail.
  
  --
  And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
9. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by 3.5+stripes · 2014-04-02 00:59 · Score: 2
  
  It was also legal in England, and most of the world at the same time. Why pick just one example?
  
  --
  
  He tried to kill me with a forklift!
10. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by 3.5+stripes · 2014-04-02 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  So, they kill people, they extort, they threaten, etc.. but if drugs are legal, they'll suddenly be able to do all those things legally?
  
  --
  
  He tried to kill me with a forklift!
11. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by meta-monkey · 2014-04-02 02:08 · Score: 1
  
  But, where's the money in that?
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
12. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by Copid · 2014-04-02 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  Of course it increases consumer demand, but not by enough to offset the eventual drop in price from a competitive market. Marijuana is ridiculously easy to produce. The only reason the prices are above the price of any cheap-ass plant is the short supply and lack of competition among producers. You'd be talking about a massive drop in total profits, not to mention competition from large producers in the US. Tobacco companies could bury the cartels in the marijuana market, especially if we put a tiny tariff on imported weed.
  
  --
  An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
13. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by Copid · 2014-04-02 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  The point is to make the business less lucrative by injecting competition into the system. Start with marijuana and go from there. It looks like about half of cartel revenue is marijuana. If you crash the price of marijuana by letting US producers start to produce it, you essentially turn it into the paperclip business. Yes, the paperclip business has a lot of money sloshing around in it and big producers could make quite a lot of money, but margins are so thin that there's no incentive for criminal activity and not enough profits to support it anyway. You never hear about organized crime and corruption in the paperclip business.
  
  Other drugs may be stickier, but it seems to me like pot is a no brainer.
  
  --
  An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
14. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by digitalPhant0m · 2014-04-02 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  A bottle of opium is only a government-subsidized $5 script away for most, which explains the growing problem with painkiller addiction.
  Exactly This.
  This is why the "war on drugs" exists in the first place. It's a knee jerk reaction to a justifiable fear of addiction.
15. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by mjwx · 2014-04-02 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  It was also legal in England, and most of the world at the same time. Why pick just one example?
  The thing was, the Chinese emperor at the time tried to make it illegal. The British started (and won) a few wars over the matter (which is how Hong Kong became a British protectorate).
  
  I cant tell you if that really helps or harms the assertion that legalising drugs is good... I guess it could be twisted into fitting either case.
  
  The more interesting part is the fact that opium was legal in many parts of SE Asia up until the 1960's when the US, coerced, sweet talked and cajoled many nations to shut them down. The opium dens in Thailand were shut down as the Vietnam wars hotted up.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
16. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by mjwx · 2014-04-02 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, yes, as soon as I saw this topic I knew someone would be along to blame it all on America.
  As Mexico is technically in America, if America disappeared so would Mexico (and the problems contained within).
  
  At that point I think Europe and the ROW would be more concerned with the giant gaping hole where two continents used to be.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
17. Re:Lawmakers need to do the right thing by geekmux · 2014-04-02 18:11 · Score: 1
  
  A bottle of opium is only a government-subsidized $5 script away for most, which explains the growing problem with painkiller addiction.
  Exactly This. This is why the "war on drugs" exists in the first place. It's a knee jerk reaction to a justifiable fear of addiction.
  Uh, not quite. The war on drugs is about greed. Always has been.
  The war on drugs started with marijuana, and was about protecting profits then (the paper industry saw the growing hemp industry as a major threat), and it's still about protecting profits now (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Big Pharma would all be affected, and their lobbyists know this).
  And if there actually was a "justifiable fear of addiction", then the knee-jerk reaction by the government would NOT be to start subsidizing opiate-based painkillers and create more of the very addiction issues they supposedly have a justifiable fear of.
  They allow it for the same reason the war on drugs thrives today; greed.
front? by phantomfive · 2014-04-01 18:55 · Score: 1

I feel like the place where the bullets are flying through the air, and people are dying, is the real front.......

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Is it retro news day? by cayce · 2014-04-01 19:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

This has been ongoing for at least a decade in Mexico. From the infamous blogdelnarco to twitter. I don't see how this is news today.
Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by TiggertheMad · 2014-04-01 19:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have wondered how far the Cartels will push the government before they just decide to cut the military loose with a death list that includes anyone even remotely involved with the Cartels. At some point the society as a whole is going to get scared/angry and demand a harsh crackdown. When tanks start rolling your million dollar estates, all the AK-47s in the world aren't going to save you.

In any event, it is likely to get worse before it gets better.

--

HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
1. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-04-01 20:22 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  The cartels are armed with much better weapons than AK-47s...
  And the Mexican Army lacks much in the way of a modern tank force, nor would tanks do that much good in cities anyway. They are useful, but not as much as you'd think...
  What might be more helpful would be a US Army invasion, but that is another matter... :)
2. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 21:17 · Score: 1
  
  Without the cartels there to provide the evil boogyman of 'drugs'...
  We're going to wise up that we employ millions of law enforcment people who provide no useful thing for our country.
  You think we're going to give up that cash cow anytime soon? The US goverment is one of the drug cartels biggest supporters.
3. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 23:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  When tanks start rolling your million dollar estates, all the AK-47s in the world aren't going to save you.
  A) The drug cartels have anti tank weapons.
  B) They aren't above going after the friends and families of the soldiers.
  C) The million dollar estates are likely to be empty by the time the tanks get there. It's not like the cartels doesn't have people both in the police force and in the military.
  D) Why would the government send the military loose on the cartels? That would just remove the bribes the politicians are receiving while endangering their friends and families.
4. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by amiga3D · 2014-04-02 00:10 · Score: 1
  
  Easier and cheaper just to do it wild west style. Put up "Wanted, Dead or Alive" posters of all the top cartel guys. Offer big money for them and let the bounty hunters do the job.
5. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by TheCarp · 2014-04-02 00:33 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If you think that is easy and cheap....I have this bridge in NYC for sale, and man is it a steal!
  You seriously think someone putting up those posters wont be found hanging from a brige with posters nailed to his corpse? These Cartels are not street gangs like we have street gangs now. They are better armed, better funded, and in some cases....are the police.
  Shit the Zetas, ever heard of them? They were started by police.
  There is no easy way out now that these monsters have been created. Created by naieve people seeking simple solutions. People who thought they could enforce away drug problems.... they failed to change addiction rates (their basic goal) and instead, created violent street gangs...here and around the world.
  Now this is the result. The same result as alcohol prohibition gave us, except amplified because instead of a short 15 or so years, its been going on for generations now.
  Frankly, every single one of those drug warriers who created this situation deserve to be strung up from their necks in appreciation for the mess they made while trying and failing to control people's desires.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
6. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by khallow · 2014-04-02 01:22 · Score: 2
  
  But justice gangs don't have to worry about the average citizen (and shouldn't). They need to control the real opposition which is the police.
  The power of the average citizen is knowledge and real time awareness of what's going on. If the police know who and where to strike, if the witnesses to crime come forward to finger cartel targets, that's the end of the cartel.
  
  Obviously, it's not happening at least very quickly. Another end state here is that one or more cartels becomes the new government.
7. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by crtreece · 2014-04-02 01:32 · Score: 2
  
  how far the Cartels will push the government before they just decide to cut the military loose
  Using some of their giant stream of incoming cash to bribe top govt and military officials means the cartel leaders don't have to worry about this. I expect they just consider bribes as one of the costs of doing business.
  
  --
  file: .signature not found
8. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by meta-monkey · 2014-04-02 02:03 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  The zetas scare me shitless. I've heard people say there's no such thing as "evil" in the world, but those people have never read up on the zetas. Cold, cold sweat shit.
  The way to win the war on drugs is to make drugs legal so there's no longer that 17,000% profit motive, but that isn't happening any time soon because the American prison, weapons and law enforcement industries make too much money off illegal drugs.
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
9. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Grishnakh · 2014-04-02 02:37 · Score: 2
  
  To my knowledge, Mexico possesses an air force. Air forces are used to drop bombs on enemy locations using airplanes (and to use other airplanes to protect the ones carrying bombs).
  It really can't be that hard to figure out where these cartels operate from. Once you know that, the solution is simple: drop bombs on them. You can't have an operating cartel if their mansions and other bases are blown to smithereens.
10. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by rahvin112 · 2014-04-02 04:11 · Score: 1
  
  There is a very simple way out. It's called the end of prohibition.
  In no time at all the cartels will be starved of the money they need to operate, without the millions in cash they can't pay the security and they cant bribe the government officials. The result will be a massive loss of the men that make up their force and a government suddenly willing to tackle taking down the key players.
11. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by ikhider · 2014-04-02 04:38 · Score: 2
  
  Haha, silly children. The Mexican army is in on it too. So is the government. Drugs bring in more money than tourism, crops, and oil combined. So is the US government and a lot of civil servants. This is business. American style.
  
  --
  "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
12. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by operagost · 2014-04-02 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  You'd think the people who are for prohibition based on the deaths and illness caused by illegal drugs, would realize that shifting the deaths from the people who are responsible for their own fate onto the peaceful people caught in the crossfire is not a superior outcome.
  The results of the drug prohibition experiment, from the worldwide laboratory, prove that government meddling in the human right to self-determination results in evil.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
13. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by meta-monkey · 2014-04-02 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah, you'd think. "But what about the children?!?" Yeah, what about the children in Mexico who's parents get their damn heads chopped off and delivered to them in a box?
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
14. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by TheCarp · 2014-04-02 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  Except they already have the money. The real truth is likely that you are half right. However, they will not be "tackled". No, they will take their money, and existing expertise, and become the next version Kennedy and Rockefeller families.
  40 years down the line, Mexico will be electing their children to office.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
15. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Copid · 2014-04-02 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  If they could make the same profits in those other crimes, they would be doing so. They're not doing so because the drug trade is singularly profitable. Take away the drug trade and they're stuck with second and third best options. The mob didn't go away, but organized crime in the US is not as scary as it once was, and by far the scariest elements of it are the ones that make their money in the drug trade. Illegal gambling and prostitution operations just aren't that frightening.
  
  If you can convert organized crime from something that has enough resources to dominate your government to something that exists off in the shadows and actually has to fear a government crackdown, that's a huge win.
  
  --
  An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
16. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-04-02 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  They could resist all they like... For maybe a week... :)
  This is the Mexican Army and the United States Army we're talking about here...
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
  No, who am I kidding, it wouldn't take a week, if we actually invaded properly, their presence would probably make exactly zero difference to our forward speed, they could stand there and watch, or fight, it would likely make no difference.
  Mexico doesn't really have tanks, they have these things...
  http://static2.demotix.com/sit...
  Really, it isn't a contest, they simply have faith that we'd never do it.
17. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by mjwx · 2014-04-02 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  To my knowledge, Mexico possesses an air force. Air forces are used to drop bombs on enemy locations using airplanes (and to use other airplanes to protect the ones carrying bombs).
  It really can't be that hard to figure out where these cartels operate from. Once you know that, the solution is simple: drop bombs on them. You can't have an operating cartel if their mansions and other bases are blown to smithereens.
  The Israeli's try this all the time. Assassination by rocket fired from AH64.
  
  Despite Israeli intelligent being quite good (I.E. identifying when the target is home and vulnerable) quite a few of the assassinated turn up a few months later alive and well.
  
  The point here is, bombs and rockets are very imprecise weapons and killing a specific individual you need to be 100% accurate.
  
  Beyond this, after the first assassination happens the drug barons will just put the military chiefs on the payroll... if they aren't already. So you'll have to start shooting all the officers that are taking bribes as well, you'll need a lot of bullets for that job alone.
  
  Finally, if you kill the Drug Lord Carlos, his lieutenant simply Juan takes over the operation. You cant simply kill the leader and expect the operation to die of it's own accord, you need to dismantle the operation in its entirety. Ultimately that's why rolling in there with tanks, bombers and helicopters will ultimately fail.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
18. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Grishnakh · 2014-04-02 13:59 · Score: 1
  
  The Israeli's try this all the time. Assassination by rocket fired from AH64.
  Despite Israeli intelligent being quite good (I.E. identifying when the target is home and vulnerable) quite a few of the assassinated turn up a few months later alive and well.
  There's some problems with this comparison. Israel is fighting against "terrorists" (or whatever you choose to call them) who live in an economically depressed area, and don't have a lot of money (or if they do, they don't spend it on fancy mansions, they spend it on rockets and bombs instead). These people likely live in crappy multi-unit buildings with a bunch of other people who may or may not be related to them and their activities.
  The cartels aren't like this; they aren't politically or religiously motivated. They're in it for the money, and surely they like to spend this money, on expensive cars, mansions, etc. Surely these cartel leaders aren't living in shitty apartment buildings alongside working-class people; they're in gated mansions with lots of fenced-off land around them. So how hard can it be to figure out if the guy is home or not, and then just blast the entire estate? If you kill a bunch of other people, who cares? They're all his associates and minions anyway. It's not like you need to shoot the guy while he's driving on a public street or something, and have to worry about killing any innocent people. The guy has to go home sometime.
19. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by mjwx · 2014-04-02 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  The Israeli's try this all the time. Assassination by rocket fired from AH64.
  Despite Israeli intelligent being quite good (I.E. identifying when the target is home and vulnerable) quite a few of the assassinated turn up a few months later alive and well.
  There's some problems with this comparison. Israel is fighting against "terrorists" (or whatever you choose to call them) who live in an economically depressed area, and don't have a lot of money (or if they do, they don't spend it on fancy mansions, they spend it on rockets and bombs instead).
  
  I'm happy calling them terrorists (well a spade is a spade).
  
  But the analogy stands because you have a standing military force facing a powerful paramilitary force. Further more, after you begin bombing and killing civilians (yep, there will be civilian deaths) you will turn the drug lords into saviours of the people simply because they now oppose the government that is now killing innocent civilians. The people who opposed them would now flock to their cause.
  
  That is, if any military operation was remotely effective (and the targeted would just move into a populated area)... But this wont happen because there wont ever be an effective military operation as unlike the Israeli's, Mexicans have to deal with distension within their own ranks. What would happen in reality.
  
  Druglord: Buenos Dias General, how is your family?
  General: Bien.
  Druglord: It must be tough supporting a family on a generals salary these days.
  General: Si, my wife, she wants a second car.
  Druglord: Well I would love to help you General, but you see the government is making my business very difficult. If something could be done about El Presidente, maybe I could help you with your troubles.
  General: yes, I understand.
  /two bullets later.
  Druglord: have you thought about what car to get your wife General.
  
  You need to lose your hard on for war. They never work out as planned.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
20. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by rahvin112 · 2014-04-02 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  The templars make more money selling Iron Ore to China than they do moving drugs. Problem is the drug side of the operation is what keeps things going, most cartel members use drugs heavily so it's questionable whether they would be able to control their muscle without the drug trade because that muscle is essential to running the Iron ore portion of the business.
21. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by rahvin112 · 2014-04-02 15:32 · Score: 1
  
  They won't be the next Rockefeller, Kennedy or Bush. The multinationals will run them out of business overnight. As soon as pot is legal Philip Morris is going to start selling machine rolled joints in handy cellophane wrapped packs and cartons just like they do cigarettes and in the process nearly every boutique pot grower/seller will be out business overnight. The cartels don't have the expertise, nor will they wind their organizations down quickly enough that the existing profits won't be eaten alive.
  Unlike alcohol prohibition I fully expect governments to keep going after their assets long after prohibition ends. In the end there will be a small trust fund, for future generations that will likely be mostly wiped out in one or two generations of their families. That is if interfamily war doesn't destroy the whole thing. These cartel families are nothing like the mob.
22. Re:Wise criminals stay in the shadows... by Grishnakh · 2014-04-03 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Further more, after you begin bombing and killing civilians (yep, there will be civilian deaths)
  No, there won't! This is the part you're not getting. There are no innocent civilians at remote gated mansions. You can bomb them with impunity.
  You need to lose your hard on for war. They never work out as planned.
  So what's your solution? Talk to the drug lords and convince them to change their ways?
Re:Same as the US TLAs by SternisheFan · 2014-04-01 20:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

So true, sadly this is the U.S. govt. From 'Contragate' when crack cocaine was allowed to flood American cities in order for Col. Oliver North to pay for his little wars. Our own government created the 1980's crack epidemic, then made money as it prosecuted the addicts. Courts and lawyers had plenty of work, a lot of money changed hands all around while the addicted citizens and their families suffered. All 'approved' by those in power.
Just legalize all drugs already. Take the profit motive away, and soon we won't have to hear any more of these drug gang stories.
What's a "muzzie"? by MRe_nl · 2014-04-01 20:52 · Score: 1

The humans have been doing this for years, with their beheadings, and the "look what you made me do when you drew a nasty picture".
Also, chimpanzees, even without nasty pictures!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

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"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Re:Same as the US TLAs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 21:05 · Score: 1

Legalize drugs - use the tax money from sales for education and profit. Then, one by one, find these cartel barbarians AND the people who enable them. Hunt them down, one by one, no matter how long it takes. Make the hunting clandestine and severe enough to make these scum never stop looking over their shoulders for as long as they live, like the Nazi killlers after WWII. Find them all; jail them all. If they resist, kill them.
Old News by wienerschnizzel · 2014-04-01 21:14 · Score: 1

Didn't all this happen 5 years ago? Why bring it up now and call it "The dark side of social media"?
1. Re:Old News by VortexCortex · 2014-04-01 21:26 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Didn't all this happen 5 years ago? Why bring it up now and call it "The dark side of social media"?
  It will become clear when you look at the surrounding news of NSA agreeing they spy on Americans who are "socially connected" to terrorists by a few degrees of separation.
  There has to be a good reason lying around for the public mind to latch onto in order to manufacture consent. I'm going to keep posting this link until you watch it and stop asking silly questions about news.
Twitter as well by barlevg · 2014-04-01 22:21 · Score: 4, Informative

Just saw a talk about the Narcotweet project. The interesting part about Narcotweet is that it's documenting the emergence of a new kind of "journalism:" the "tweet curator" who aggregates local social media reporting. These people are routinely followed by bigger news media (CNN en Espanol) yet maintain extremely strong ties to the people witnessing these things first-hand. The power of this entire project is that it's a way of getting information from places where the conventional news sources have decided it's too risky / too expensive to send *actual* reporters.
make drugs legal - war over, cartels fail by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-01 22:37 · Score: 1

Make drugs legal, collect taxes and this idiotic war is over. Addicts will use drugs no matter what.
1g of cocaine will cost 1 USD or less where it's made. Sell this shit at 10-50 USD a pop in local pharmacy and cartels will fall fast.
1. Re:make drugs legal - war over, cartels fail by BitZtream · 2014-04-01 23:50 · Score: 1
  
  Go ahead and try to do that.
  They'll kill you too.
  You aren't going to ruin their perfectly massive money supply any more than some guy trying to rat them out or take them on.
  They not only kill anyone (police, military, whatever) who fucks with them, but they'll kill you for just mentioning the name of their gang on a blog. Then your mom, dad, son, daughter, wife ... all the way through your 11th cousin twice removed.
  They'll wipe out every person they can find in your blood line, and then DARE the police or military to respond.
  
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2. Re:make drugs legal - war over, cartels fail by WindBourne · 2014-04-02 02:15 · Score: 2
  
  hmmm. Well, will they go after my ex?
  
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  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
3. Re:make drugs legal - war over, cartels fail by MaWeiTao · 2014-04-02 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  Typical naivete. Organized crime didn't disappear with the end of prohibition. Why the hell would it go away with the wholesale legalization of drugs? Best case is you're not arresting people for possession. But as studies on decriminalization has shown all that happens is that the money is redirected towards distribution, treatment and medical care. And Mexico will go right on fighting the cartels like nothing has changed.
4. Re:make drugs legal - war over, cartels fail by operagost · 2014-04-02 06:01 · Score: 1
  
  Typical naivete. Organized crime didn't disappear with the end of prohibition.
  
  Correct. It shifted from the newly-legal industry of alcohol to the still-illegal opiates and marijuana and heavily-restricted (and illegal in most places) gambling industries.
  
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Re:Same as the US TLAs by rahimi.nv · 2014-04-02 01:41 · Score: 1, Insightful

how it would be ??? i think much better
Re:Same as the US TLAs by meta-monkey · 2014-04-02 01:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

Which is why drugs will never be legal. There's too many powerful people getting their beak wet. Make drugs legal and Mexico will no longer be a blood-drenched narco state. Without the constant threat of violence, why would their honest, hard-working people flee across the border to pick our tomatoes on the cheap?
And if drugs are legal, where else will we find non-violent "criminals" to fill our private prisons? Who else will they turn into the hardened criminals that are their repeat business? Without the hardened criminals, how will they terrorize the white middle class, and convince them to pay for the police state, and buy the weapons for the militarized police? Hell no we can't make drugs legal. Illegal drugs are too profitable.

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We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
America needs to legalize all drugs by WindBourne · 2014-04-02 02:05 · Score: 2

Seriously, we need to legalize all drugs, BUT, require that NONE cross state borders. In addition, all production will obviously be limited to the state where it is consumed, and heavily regulated. Finally, we then focus on keeping the drugs our of those under age 21.

By doing this, it remove the money from the drug lords and the gangs. Right now, there is plenty of money for them to share. BUT, if we do the above, they will kill each other, rather than innocent bystanders.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
1. Re:America needs to legalize all drugs by DigiShaman · 2014-04-02 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  From a personal liberty POV, I agree. Your body, your temple, your choice. But (and there's always a but), drug addicts not only abuse themselves, but those around them. Specifically, the environment oft he children they're supposed to be caring for. We can always have CPS take the kids away, but that's a pretty fucked up situation for them to be dealing with in the first place.
  I know "for the children" is way over abused in politics, but if there was ever a reason to espouse it, it's to combat drug abuse.
  
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  Life is not for the lazy.
2. Re:America needs to legalize all drugs by WindBourne · 2014-04-02 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you about the drug addicts. No doubt about it. And as you said, there is a BUT. BUT, they will do it regardless of legal or not.
  As such, we should NOT allow Ads for the stores, no using it in public (i.e. ONLY AT HOME), no driving, etc. In addition, strict laws for adults buying it from illegal source ( 5 years prison with no plea bargins ), stricter laws for selling it (10 years), and even more if it involves underage.
  The point is to stop the flow of drugs into our nation is only possible by legalizing it and putting up hard blocks against gangs/drug lords. Also, we need to offer a helping hand to those that want off the drugs. And it can all be funded by taxes on these.
  
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  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
3. Re:America needs to legalize all drugs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-04-02 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you about the drug addicts. No doubt about it. And as you said, there is a BUT. BUT, they will do it regardless of legal or not.
  As such, we should NOT allow Ads for the stores, no using it in public (i.e. ONLY AT HOME), no driving, etc. In addition, strict laws for adults buying it from illegal source ( 5 years prison with no plea bargins ), stricter laws for selling it (10 years), and even more if it involves underage.
  The point is to stop the flow of drugs into our nation is only possible by legalizing it and putting up hard blocks against gangs/drug lords. Also, we need to offer a helping hand to those that want off the drugs. And it can all be funded by taxes on these.
  Why it is almost as if you have completely failed to learn a lesson here. The war on kids isn't a success either.
My kingdom for mod points. by MrNaz · 2014-04-02 04:17 · Score: 1

The rationale amongst many who lack historical perspective is hopelessly simplistic. The "prohibition didn't work, so let's solve the problem of drugs the same way we solved the problem of alcohol" argument completely ignores the fact that we DIDN'T solve the problem of alcohol. Alcohol has become a massively abused drug that causes all kinds of harm. It destroys families, is highly addictive, results in self-destructive behaviour and is responsible for a surprisingly large number of hospital trauma cases. Yet we hand-wave away this as part of what it means to have freedom because it has become socially acceptable, and the harms associated natural part of human behaviour. I don't want to live in a world where we get so used to other drugs' deleterious effects that we consider heroin addiction, crack habits and meth death to be a natural part of human behaviour.
Making something legal just because our politicians lack the will to engage in a sincere effort to enforce laws regulating it is a poor, shortsighted and ultimately disastrous attitude to take.

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I hate printers.
1. Re:My kingdom for mod points. by operagost · 2014-04-02 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  Fighting drug use moves the death and hardship from the user to law enforcement and innocent people caught in the crossfire. The genie is out of the bottle. People are going to die-- we get to say whether it is those who are responsible for their own actions, or people trying to help.
  
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  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
2. Re:My kingdom for mod points. by Copid · 2014-04-02 07:56 · Score: 2
  
  I don't think that the claim is that legalizing drugs will get rid of all of the problems associated with drugs. The position is that legalizing drugs trades the enormous problems caused by prohibition for the smaller problems caused by whatever marginal increase in usage repealing prohibition causes. Alcohol is a scourge, but I don't think that many people sincerely believe that we could generate a net improvement in our situation by driving it underground again.
  
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  An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
3. Re:My kingdom for mod points. by MrNaz · 2014-04-02 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  enormous problems caused by prohibition
  And...
  
  smaller problems caused by whatever marginal increase in usage repealing prohibition causes
  See, the problem is that there is no evidence to support the proposition that the increase will be marginal, and that the harm will be less. All of the arguments rest on the retelling of the 1920s experience with prohibition and essentially say "well we had all these problems with gangsterism in that period, but look, we made alcohol legal again and all the alcohol related problems went away".
  There is a *lot* of research suggesting that the overall social problems caused by alcohol are vastly understated, itis just hidden because it happens at the family and individual level. The social symptoms of alcohol just don't make for interesting reading or spectacular Hollywood movies the way prohibition rackets do.
  Finally, comparing the ability to enforce a law in the 1920s to today, a century later, is just folly. The circumstances are wholly different. The real problem underlying the ineffectiveness of today's drug "prohibition" is a lack of political will, conflicts of interest and outright corruption.
  
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  I hate printers.
4. Re:My kingdom for mod points. by Copid · 2014-04-02 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  There is a *lot* of research suggesting that the overall social problems caused by alcohol are vastly understated, itis just hidden because it happens at the family and individual level.
  I fully agree with you there. But you seem to be assuming that prohibition actually reduces those problems in a significant way. I very strongly doubt it. I admit that I wasn't alive for prohibition, but the people I know who were don't remember it as a time when we had problems with organized crime but a lot fewer problems with alcohol abuse. They remember it as a time with both. Alcohol abusers remained alcohol abusers. We just added in the additional element of prohibition. I don't see why that wouldn't be true for any other type of drug.
  
  A simpler question: Given what you know about the destructiveness of alcohol, would you propose that we bring back prohibition today? If not, why, and how does that reason differ from the reasoning on other controlled substances?
  
  Finally, comparing the ability to enforce a law in the 1920s to today, a century later, is just folly. The circumstances are wholly different.
  I'm not doing a thought experiment about whether or not we'd be able to effectively enforce our drug laws. I'm observing the fact that we clearly aren't and haven't been for decades.
  
  The real problem underlying the ineffectiveness of today's drug "prohibition" is a lack of political will, conflicts of interest and outright corruption.
  That's likely true in Mexico. I'm not sure exactly how we'd undo that. Encouraging people to be less corrupt and to stand up to militarized gangs sounds good on paper, but the reality seems to be that Mexico is unable to handle this issue. How do you solve endemic corruption driven by a hyper-violent criminal element with enough money and firepower to corrupt and tear down whatever you build?
  
  If you're talking about our end, I'm really not seeing what we could do to escalate that wouldn't take us all the way to the dystopian endpoint. We already have ridiculously harsh sentencing, asset seizure, and a heavily militarized police force. We've essentially torched the Fourth Amendment as long as drugs are involved. What's left, and are the consequences of whatever escalation you have in mind really better than the consequences of legalization?
  
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  An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
These books are illuminating on this topic by ikhider · 2014-04-02 04:44 · Score: 1

'Down by the River' and 'Murder City: Ciudad Juarez and the Global Economy's New Killing Fields' by Charles Bowden are good starting books on the topic. Journalist, Bowden has illuminating things to say about the topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... He researched this topic for years, interviewing both the DEA and cartels.

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"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
Re:Legalize all the drugs . . . by SternisheFan · 2014-04-02 04:45 · Score: 1

Kids/teens here in Long Island, N.Y. start off by stealing legal opiate pain pills from their parents medecine cabinet. Parents lock away the pills, which are quite expensive to buy on the street, so kids have no choice but cheaper heroin. Big Pharm is the big drug dealer now, making billions.
Teach kids in middle/high schools about drug addiction along with English, and stop making our own kids into addicts, thieving to support their habit.
Alcohol makers don't want the competition of legal drugs, and alcohol is the most destructive drug in the world! Combine all other drug use, and it still doesn't match alcohol's social, physical and societal damage.
Alcohol lobbyist pay lots of $$$ to our politicians to keep alcohol the only legal recreational drug.
Re:.gif Hacking heads with chainsaws was enough by davester666 · 2014-04-02 04:55 · Score: 1

yes, their bizarre fetish with cat video's is beyond evil.

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