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Russian GLONASS Down For 12 Hours

An anonymous reader writes "In an unprecedented total disruption of a fully operational GNSS constellation, all satellites in the Russian GLONASS broadcast corrupt information for 11 hours, from just past midnight until noon Russian time (UTC+4), on April 2 (or 5 p.m. on April 1 to 4 a.m. April 2, U.S. Eastern time). This rendered the system completely unusable to all worldwide GLONASS receivers."

35 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. sanctions? by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    maybe.

  2. How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Newer phones have location chipsets that support both GPS and GLONASS. Do they figure out automatically that the GLONASS information is bad and switch to using GPS exclusively?

    I've noticed much increased performance since I upgraded to a phone that uses both systems, especially in cities with a lot of tall buildings like NYC and Chicago.

    1. Re:How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by Guppy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Newer phones have location chipsets that support both GPS and GLONASS. Do they figure out automatically that the GLONASS information is bad and switch to using GPS exclusively?

      To promote their system, Russia decided to make new smartphones without GLONASS support illegal in their country -- so major manufacturers added that capability to all their phones (since there is almost no additional cost to each unit, once the capability is designed into the chipset). Not sure about CDMA chipset, since there is no major CDMA networking in Russia.

      Would be nice if we got Galileo GNSS and Beidou support too, but I'm not expecting it to happen unless they pull a similar stunt with their markets (well, China might).

         

    2. Re:How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      I found they gave the impression things were going better with my GPSr, I synched with satellites quickly, but once in a while I'd have wild, like 1000+ foot inaccuracy. The issue would resolve after a day or so. The last time it happened I disabled GLONASS and haven't used it since. Having it does create a larger constellation to use, but only so long as they all work from the same page -- where they think they are.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      Actually, the smarter receivers do still work with bounced signals involved.

    4. Re:How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It seems to depend where you are. I find that in the far east GPS is often less accurate that GLONASS. My understanding is that it is due to them using different approximations of the shape of the earth (it isn't quite round, more of an ellipsoid). In fact you get this with some mapping applications too because the map data is based on, say, the Japanese approximation that is well suited to their country but the GPS receiver is using the US approximation (WGS85 or something?)

      I bet if you are stood in Moscow GLONASS is better. I find it is definitely more accurate in Japan, although Japan is supposed to be launching its own GPS supplementary satellites to improve the situation in the next few years.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:How does this affect dual-system chipsets? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      True. But if you, say, double the number of satellites you're tracking, you have a better shot of being in the line-of-sight of three of them...

  3. Down? Or encrypted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The system shutting down while still broadcasting "gibberish" seems awfully inconvenient. Sure they just didn't switch to encrypted transmissions?

    1. Re:Down? Or encrypted? by sjwt · · Score: 2

      Im not up on GLONASS but don't most GPS systems broadcast in a range of service levels, you can only decrypt that access level you pay for, and countries reserve the top level for their military.

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    2. Re:Down? Or encrypted? by meadowsoft · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is called selective availability. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_availability#Selective_availability My undergraduate thesis involved how to couple intertial senors using a Kalman filter to compensate for SA in GPS signals. Two years after my project concluded, the US disabled SA in GPS. I doubt that this recent "outage" was related to similar SA in GLONASS. Rather, perhaps it was indeed an encrypted transmission, or was based on a second independent synchronization signal only available to military assets used to put the scrambled transmissions back in the right order.

    3. Re:Down? Or encrypted? by guzzirider · · Score: 2

      Most likely encrypted.
      They, (The Russians) are massing troupes, maybe by historical Russian standards, a small mass.
      It would make sense that they would test whatever secure military mode that is built into the system.
      12 hours is not an a huge amount of time, but is could be enough to operationally test most of the hardware that is deployed on the 'frontier'.

  4. Re:Warning Shot by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

    Careful when you shoot across bows. World Wars are easy to start, not always so easy to finish the way you want them to.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  5. I don't miss them. by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used them along with the US GPS satellites, until a couple months back, but found I was having some serious accuracy issues. Disabling them resolved the issue and I haven't used them since. GPSr unit: Garmin Oregon 600

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  6. Re:Warning Shot by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Careful when you shoot across bows. World Wars are easy to start, not always so easy to finish the way you want them to.

    I doubt the US would do it, if we did want to disable it for any reason, such as missile guidance, we wouldn't tip our hand so casually.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  7. Re:Warning Shot by TFlan91 · · Score: 2

    When all their guided missiles rely on said system? I'd call that a major breach of national security

  8. Re:Warning Shot by Advocatus+Diaboli · · Score: 2

    Actually, most of their high value missiles use inertial navigation- just like those of every other country. Nobody trusts navigation satellites for anything more important than short and medium range cruise missiles.

  9. Re:Warning Shot by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    I suggest you read up how WW-I was started over nothing.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  10. Re:Ukrainian hackers? by CeasedCaring · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, it was last weeks NCIS:LA "Zero Days", which aired 3/25/14, and involved the NCIS techies corrupting GLONASS to divert a missile aimed at San Francisco. See TVRage

  11. So much speculation... by Flytrap · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So much speculation from people who do not appear to have even read the article.

    FTA: “Bad ephemerides were uploaded to satellites. Those bad ephemerides became active at 1:00 am Moscow time... a GLONASS fix could not take effect until each satellite in turn passed back over control stations in the Northern Hemisphere to be reset, thus taking nearly 12 hours.”

    The article concludes that the outage was probably due to a human error which "...could conceivably occur with GPS, Galileo, or BeiDou" and advises consumers not to rely on only one system.

    My [completely uninformed and speculative] guess is that the Russians probably rushed a software update to meet some military deadline and it backfired on them - now Putin's troops amassed along the Ukrainian boarder may have to do without whatever feature they were trying to quickly enable.

  12. Re:Warning Shot by Cobalt+Jacket · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're suggesting that a single assassination was the reason for starting it, you may wish to go read some more about it. The major players had been itching for a fight for decades. It was essentially an attempt to resolve differences left from the Prussian wars of the 1860s-1870s, which set the stage for 120 years of a crapsack continent.

  13. Ingress by tbuddy · · Score: 4, Funny

    My heart goes out to the Russian Resistance team for their downtime.

  14. Re:Warning Shot by kurkosdr · · Score: 4, Funny

    "hit there targets". Their, their, their, THEIR! Basic kingergarten-level knowledge. Damn idiocracy. 10 years from now, everyone will spell "right" as "rite" and posts complaining about it will get downvoted. Mark my words. (after all, most people already think "definitely" is spelled "definately", and can't tell the difference between "doing good" and "doing well")

  15. Russian time? by blackm0k · · Score: 2

    The editors realize that Russia spans 9 time zones right? I think they meant to say Moscow Time. Can you imagine if an article was posted referring to American Time as a time zone?

  16. Re:Ukrainian hackers? by beelsebob · · Score: 2

    Unlikely... More likely it's them checking their (not announced) scrambling works, ready for an invasion.

  17. Re:Ukrainian hackers? by rvw · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just sayin'.

    Or Russian Wodka. It would give them a good excuse to take over Ukraine by accident - sorry wrong turn!

  18. What's Random Gibberish? by hhawk · · Score: 2

    One person's gibberish is another's encrypted data. Perhaps Russia was testing a encrypted "secure" mode that would switch to in time on conflict, such as an invasion or something like that.

    --
    http://www.hawknest.com/
  19. Re:Warning Shot by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was. The chain of event that follow the assassination were a pretty rapid and unlikely chain of events to have happened without that assassination.

    If you are curious, reading the account of what was happening the day the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated is a comedy of errors.

    It's also highly unlikely the WWII would have happened without WWI, since there would not have been the poverty and economic status Hitler used to gain power.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. Re:Warning Shot by geekoid · · Score: 2

    Actually, it's easier to manipulate comfortable people who feel safe. When was the last time a government was overthrown because it's populace was secure and well fed?
    The PATRIOT act was easy because of 9/11. Not becasue states won't take care of their cities.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  21. Re:Warning Shot by Jmc23 · · Score: 2
    Where have you been for the past couple of decades? The US has gotten more blatant in it's actions. It is these very overt actions, without significant outcry from other countries, that is leading the other Big Powers to feel confident in making overt moves as well.

    It will be interesting times ahead. The US used to get away with so much of it's foreign policy because of the mythic aura of the American-Dream that made it so palatable to poor developing countries. With the recent constant revelations of just how hypocritical the US is, and the fact they're running out of countries that they haven't fucked over, they're losing their carefully built image and status as "policer-of-the-free-world". It'll be fun to see just how far the bullies will go now that they realize there is no functional deterrent to their actions.

    ...unless you take out their gps...

    --
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  22. Not only that... by Bohnanza · · Score: 2

    Glasnost seems to be dead too.

    --

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    Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.

  23. Oops by Jeremi · · Score: 2

    "In an unprecedented total disruption of a fully operational GNSS constellation, all satellites in the Russian GLONASS broadcast corrupt information for 11 hours [...] This rendered the system completely unusable to all worldwide GLONASS receivers."

    Ok! Ok! I must have, I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. Shit. I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  24. Re:Warning Shot by schnell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you dont think this is intentional then you are nuts

    Of course it's intentional but not for the reason you think. The reason that Detroit, Trenton and (at least previously) DC were/are cesspools is because of the evil force known as democracy. The residents of those cities and states voted for crap politicians who drove their respective areas into the ground economically. Nobody from outside imposed Marion Barry or Kwame Kilpatrick onto their cities, and nobody had to nefariously conspire to make them suck, they did that perfectly well on their own. Externalities can hurt a city or state, but to get it into Detroit territory you have to actively keep making it worse on your own - and the residents of those areas have nobody but their own votes to thank for it.

    Seriously... not EVERYTHING is a gubmint conspiracy. Sometimes it's just stupid people electing terrible leaders, and that's the downside of democracy that comes along with all the other good stuff. Ask the people of Venezuela how electing people who promise free goodies works out in the long run.

    --
    "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  25. Re:Warning Shot by gaiageek · · Score: 2

    That's a relief. Everywhere I go I'm close to an area. It's like I'm surrounded.

  26. Re:Warning Shot by Stickerboy · · Score: 2

    Where have you been for the past couple of decades? The US has gotten more blatant in it's actions. It is these very overt actions, without significant outcry from other countries, that is leading the other Big Powers to feel confident in making overt moves as well.

    It will be interesting times ahead. The US used to get away with so much of it's foreign policy because of the mythic aura of the American-Dream that made it so palatable to poor developing countries.

    No, the US used to get away with so much of it's foreign policy because the idea of foreign aid and economic trade with America made it very palatable to poor developing countries. See how everyone is starting to bend over backward to China as it begins to assert its economic weight.

    With the recent constant revelations of just how hypocritical the US is, and the fact they're running out of countries that they haven't fucked over, they're losing their carefully built image and status as "policer-of-the-free-world".

    What rock have *you* been living under for the last 100 years? Have you been paying any attention at all to US foreign policy in Latin America and the Middle East for, I don't know, the last century? Has there been a time when the US hasn't acted exactly as it has? Has there been one significant change in dipping their toes in other countries' affairs? The only change, ever, has been international press coverage of events. People interested in foreign policy have always seen the US for exactly what it is - it's just until 20 years ago there was a Soviet Union and a Warsaw Pact that made the US much more endearing.

    It'll be fun to see just how far the bullies will go now that they realize there is no functional deterrent to their actions.

    ...unless you take out their gps...

    Which is exactly as far as they would have gone before! Do you think bullshit brush wars are a new thing? Or that developed countries with strong militaries intervening in neighboring countries with weak ones is new, either? Wake up. The only international law worth a damn is the international law that's enforced at the point of a gun.

    --
    Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
  27. I sense the shadowy hand of Lighthouse... by knightsirius · · Score: 2

    I sense the shadowy hand of Lighthouse behind this :P