60 Minutes Dubbed Engines Noise Over Tesla Model S

cartechboy (2660665) writes "Did you watch the Tesla 60 Minutes segment the other night? If you did, you might have ended up on the floor rolling around laughing like I did. Since when does the Tesla Model S electric car make audible engine noises? Or downshift? Turns out, 60 Minutes dubbed engine noises and a downshift over the Model S running footage. The show claims it was an editing error. Call it what you want, it was absolutely hilarious. A little note to TV producers assigned to cover Tesla Motors in the future: Electric cars don't upshift or downshift." At least they didn't fraudulently blow it up!

Comments

Top Gear was worse.

[BasilBrush]

At least they didn't fraudulently claim the battery went flat during a test run.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[CanHasDIY]

At least they didn't fraudulently claim the battery went flat during a test run.

Can you link to the clip/transcript of the scene where this alleged fraudulent claim occurred? Because I remember watching that episode, and aside from (what I perceived as) the playful "if the battery dies, you'll be doing this" pushing scene toward the end, I don't recall them saying or doing anything that would qualify as fraudulent. The fact that Tesla's lawsuit against the show was settled in a way that still allows the BBC to rebroadcast the episode seems to indicate a lack of fraudulent claims.

Also, in fairness, there's no denying that a "fuse issue" caused the brakes to fail during the Stig's test run - Even Tesla admits that one.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[geekoid]

Have you been in one? Man, they are beautiful, fun as hell to drive, great acceleration.
I wish I could afford one.
I didn't see the 60 minutes piece, but I can't think of anything practical to complain about.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[geekoid]

Did you see the episode? It was, another, excuse to bash on all things American*. The presented t as if it ran out of charge. They really tried to hide the fact that they were not driving the car under normal road conditions.
Clarkson also has a long history of attacking electric cars, and when he is presented with argument, he responds with non sequitors.
I like how the article you linked only links to itself and not to any actual reference to the court case.

*sometime justifiable, but all too often I've seen them do things to American car they don't do to non American cars.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[glasshole]

Having driven one extensively, it is kinda fun, but not in the sense that a Porsche Cayman is fun. It goes very fast off the line, but it is hard to hide its rather ample weight. Same deal with the Tesla Roadster too, having owned the chassis mate Lotus Exige for several years, the experiences weren't comparable.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[David_Hart]

Did you see the episode? It was, another, excuse to bash on all things American*. The presented t as if it ran out of charge. They really tried to hide the fact that they were not driving the car under normal road conditions.
Clarkson also has a long history of attacking electric cars, and when he is presented with argument, he responds with non sequitors.
I like how the article you linked only links to itself and not to any actual reference to the court case.

*sometime justifiable, but all too often I've seen them do things to American car they don't do to non American cars.

Here ya go... http://www.theguardian.com/med...

Top Gear is Cartainment... In my opinion, it isn't a serious car show. Though, it is popular... Those who watch it understand that the hosts have their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks and that they drive cars hard, not like normal people in day-to-day traffic. Saying that a show is disingenuous because it doesn't represent daily driving habits is a specious argument simply because it isn't that type of show.

The point is that Top Gear isn't a show for people to find information on daily driving. That's what Motor Week and Consumer Reports are for....

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[WindBourne]

LOL. Yeah, the Model S is superior to the MB S-class W222 4-door that still costs more. The base on the S-class is 95K. The upper end of the Model S is 100K. And the base of W222 is very spartan and more like a GM or a VW. The Model S is faster, holds more ppl and cargo, has cheap re-fuels, and if you are in a real hurry to fill up, you will, within a year, be able to swap the battery out for one that holds enough power to run you 450+ MPC.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[Cytotoxic]

It was a complete puff piece, but I did really like one voiceover quote:

"In the history of space exploration, four entities have sent a capsule into orbit and successfully recovered it. Russia, the United States, China and Elon Musk."

If I was Elon, I'd have that on a continuous loop somewhere.

Re:Top Gear was worse.

[hab136]

1. Teslas don't need oil changes. You know what's better than a great dealer experience for required maintenance? Not needing maintenance in the first place!

2. Tesla doesn't have a dealer network, but they do have a service center network: http://www.teslamotors.com/ser...

3. You want a loaner? You'll get a loaner. From http://www.teslamotors.com/ser...:

Tesla Valet Service
Tesla is putting in place a valet service, so that your car is seamlessly picked up and replaced with a loaner and then returned as soon as we are done. There is no additional charge for this.

Tesla Rangers Come to You
Tesla Rangers are service technicians who make house calls. For an additional fee, they can come to your home or office to perform most maintenance and warranty repairs.

4. "air conditioned seats, rear DVD, 360 degree camera surround support, automatic parking, adaptive cruise control, automatic crash braking". Ok, Teslas don't have any of that.

Lies

[nwaack]

There is no way that was an editing error. Someone had to purposefully add those noises to the footage. Please.

Re:Lies

[seinman]

Every professional editor in the world would add engine noise to a shot of an operating automobile. It's one of those things that you do without even thinking about, because generally you will receive footage (especially if it's b-roll) that has poor audio quality. The editor probably dropped it in like he/she would always do, without stopping to think "hey, that's an electric car, so that silence i'm hearing in the footage SHOULD be there." I would most certainly consider that an editing error.

Re:Lies

[CanHasDIY]

This.

Definitely one of those "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence" situations.

Editor see car, cars make noise, thus, editor add car noise. No conspiracy necessary.

Re:Lies

[Sarten-X]

"Huh, you can't hear the car in this car clip. That's going to be awkward... I'll just add some stock noises in so it sounds normal."

-Some lowly editor

It's easy enough to be an honest mistake by an uninformed individual. Most non-Slashdotters don't know or care about the idiosyncrasies of electric cars.

Re:Lies

[camperdave]

This.

Definitely one of those "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence" situations.

Editor see car, cars make noise, thus, editor add car noise. No conspiracy necessary.

I would hope that an editor for a NEWS SERVICE would have more sense than that. Altering levels, filtering noises, tweaking, balancing yes, but going to a library of sound effects and overlaying foreign audio and sound effects? I would hope they would only do that under orders from above.

Re:Lies

[squiggleslash]

The GP said "editor" but it's likely to be a generic sound guy who works on numerous projects. Never worked in the industry, but based upon simple observation I think they pretty much work from a library of standard sounds that they add to everything by default.

It's the (computer) mice clicks that always get me. Anyone actually have a mouse that loudly clunks in the way shown on virtually every television show, news show, etc? Even better when the visuals show they're using a laptop's touchpad...

Re:Lies

[Geoffrey.landis]

I would hope that an editor for a NEWS SERVICE would have more sense than that.

You would hope, but you would be disappointed. Ever seen a news report where something blows up? Have you ever, even once, seen that clip shown on TV where the sound comes after the visible explosion?

Re:Lies

[Rinikusu]

Well, good luck with that. Go shoot a movie and edit it. See how your sound stacks up. You'll find that frequently, it sucks. This is why we have foley, ADR, etc.

Now, granted, in a so-called news piece, it's much more egregious.

Guess what? CG is also a fraud on the viewer. Those Channel 5 graphics don't really exist outside of a computer. Your favorite newscaster is wearing makeup. Etc.

Re:Lies

[taiwanjohn]

This is just scratching the surface on the kind of deception that frequently passes for "journalism" in the modern age. With a bit of clever editing, you can make anyone "say" virtually anything you want.

Re:Lies

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

If you are over a couple of hundred feet away from the explosion there will be a difference that you can perceive. You know that sound and light travel at different speeds, right?

If you want a fun demonstration of this get a day on an EOD range, you see the explosion, then hear the explosion, then feel the blast wave, then feel the ground rumble all with different time lag from the actual explosion. Really cool.

Re:Lies

[iluvcapra]

Every professional editor in the world would add engine noise to a shot of an operating automobile. It's one of those things that you do without even thinking about, because generally you will receive footage (especially if it's b-roll) that has poor audio quality.

I am a motion picture sound designer, my credits include Zero Dark Thirty, The Hurt Locker and Men in Black 3.

I would not add fucking internal combustion engine noise to footage of a Tesla S. I might add something-- an electric motor, or recording of a prius, something designed special; I'd definitely add tire skids and suspension sounds over bumps. But I'd be laughed off the dubbing stage if I added V-8 revs to and electric car.

Sound design is one of the few aspects of television news where reporters and editors are allowed to straight-up lie, because they have a mentality that all they're required to do is (1) not modify the image, and (2) not say anything false. All other manipulations are considered merely style.

Re:Lies

[Rinikusu]

Well, even with shotgun mics, there is a bit of noise cancellation due to the design. This is why when you see mics on booms, they're typically pointed *down* at the ground as they have a cardoid pick-up pattern. The ground typically doesn't have a lot of sound coming from it, but the truck behind what you're recording does. Now, with ENG style recording, the microphones are typically pointed directly at the reporter, which also has the unfortunate effect of picking up everything behind the subject, too. In real world under ideal circumstances, there's a mixer who can blend/adjust the output of the lav/handheld mic and the camera mic to produce the "best" sound, but for small productions this isn't always possible.

Re:Lies

[Xenna]

Never attribute to incompetence what can be adequately explained by competitivenes:

The noise you hear is from the Mercedes S-Class driving behind it trying to keep up.

Re:Lies

[Cytotoxic]

I like this comment. I'm reminded of a recent interview that Neil Degrasse-Tyson did with the director of several big blockbusters. Neil called him out on a shot where there was a big lightning storm on the horizon and the sound of the thunder was coincident with the lightning in the distance. The director laughed and said he originally cut it with the real sound and the long delay was off-putting, despite being accurate. Apparently the accurate sound pulled you right out of the movie (because the delay was like 7-8 seconds).

Interesting that "real" sometimes doesn't help tell the story, and it can even hinder it.

Dubbing car noise over the original footage?

[Sockatume]

I guess you could say they gave it some axle foley.

I assumed sound was from the camera vehicle

[Kevoco]

I too noticed it and thought it was odd but rationalized it as being the sound of the vehicle carrying the video camera.

This is one thing I love about it

[ZorinLynx]

Smooth, instant acceleration no matter what your current speed. It's mind blowing when you first experience it.

I don't get how people can "miss" the sound of a regular engine, and having to shift. A good computer analogy would be "missing" having to manually input bootstrap code to get your machine going. Sure, it can be a nice bit of nostalgia, but it's a requirement of antiquated technology that no longer applies in the case of the Model S.

I so wish I could afford that car. I hope they can get the price of its successor down into the 30s; I will jump on that SO quick.

Re:This is one thing I love about it

[m.ducharme]

I love having to manually shift, and the engine revving and all that. It's a lot of fun. I'm sure gonna miss it when I finally can afford my new Tesla. It won't stop me buying one though.

Re:This is one thing I love about it

[ducomputergeek]

A friend of mine just bought a Tesla. As far as I know it maybe the only one in the St. Louis area. I recently bought a Chevy Volt. We were at an event and the topic came up. One of the people there asked me why I went with the volt. And the answer was fairly simple:

My wife's commute is 15 miles round trip a day. Maybe 20 if she does some afterwork shopping. So the vast majority of the time it's running on electric. But my Dad lives ~ 70 mile round trip from us. He's older and I'm usually out there once a week to check up on him or help him clean out gutters or whatever needs to be done around his house. I have farms that are 300 mile round trip that need seen after. That is certainly a problem with a Tesla.

Also my budget for a new car was between $25,000 - $30,000. With lower base price for 2014, tax credits, and GM card earnings the Volt fit in the price range and was a little bit smaller of a car than the Malibu Eco, which meant it fit in the garage better. (I really wish we had a 3 car garage, but...)

Finally, there are a dozen Chevy and GM dealers around the city. I'm not even sure there is somewhere here that can do work on a Tesla.

Re:This is one thing I love about it

[JDG1980]

Who really killed the EV? It was the "consumer" who was beating down the manufacturer's door for an EV but never put down their cash when the manufacturer delivered on that demand.

Tesla is, in fact, a highly profitable company. They paid off their $465 million Department of Energy loan nine years early. So the rest of your rant is irrelevant. Tesla is profitably making electric vehicles that actual customers are buying. And they already have designs coming up that will be considerably less expensive than the Model S, and will almost certainly see much higher sales figures as a result.

Because Hollywood.

[CanHasDIY]

The editors who put in car-related audio on all manner of film media are morons, plain and simple.

I mean, these are the same guys that pipe in 'tires screeching on pavement' sounds every time the Duke boys take off, even when they're on gravel or dirt.

Frankly, I'd be far more surprised if they didn't add a bunch of fake engine noises.

Re:Because Hollywood.

[Artifakt]

What surprises some people is that 60 minutes has the same dedication to facts and accurate reporting as the Dukes of Hazzard. I've stopped being surprised by that.

Re:Because Hollywood.

[Sarten-X]

Hi. I'm an audio engineer. I've done several short films, nominated for a few awards. You just called me a moron, because you don't understand what I do.

Frankly, my dear, nobody gives a damn about what a particular car sounds like in a particular situation except for us nerds. Unless the media piece is explicitly focused on how something sounds, having realistic audio is actually distracting to the audience. There are thousands of little noises that our brains filter out because we don't care about them. Someone walks down an alley in a city at night, and their ears will pick up rustling clothes, a jingling zipper pull, creaking pipes, whistling wind, noisy cars, buzzing fans, someone shouting a block away, et cetera. Of course they'll hear their own footsteps, but that's the only thing they'll notice. A good audio engineer will strip out the soundtrack completely, add a noise floor to match the rest of the production, and dub in footsteps. Leaving in the raw audio will also leave in those background noises, but because the audience hasn't been exposed to them, the background noises stand out more, distracting the viewer from the film's actual subject.

Having tires squeal on gravel is similar. Rather than background noise, the distracting element is that the sound just isn't what's expected. In an action shot, there usually isn't time to properly establish the scenery.

Consider a scene where the Dukes are waiting by the side of the road, and leave in a hurry. They hop in their car, step on the gas, and rush off from a standstill. Sure, visually you can see it's a soft shoulder, but audibly, your brain hasn't bothered to think about dirt or gravel noises. The first sound most audiences associate with a fast departure like that is a squealing tire. That's what they expect, so having the more realistic grinding noise will raise a different cue in the audience's mind. They'll wonder briefly why the engine is grinding, and worry whether something bad happened to the General Lee.

In another scene, the boys have pulled head-in to a parking space. After the iconic hood-slide, they have to back out on the gravel before they can take off. That's a chance for the audio engineer to put in a slow gravel noise, hinting to the audience that they should expect to hear gravel. By the time the car accelerates, the audio scene has been established in the listeners' minds. A fast gravel grind may be acceptable, but the squeal is still less likely to distract.

The professional audio technique, and similar techniques on the visual medium, are a major reason behind the perceived quality difference between professional films and home movies. Subtle echoes, timing, and the selection of noises all contribute to keeping the audience focused in the direction the director wants. Blame him if something bothers you.

Not only for Tesla or videos

[BlackPignouf]

It's not only for Tesla, and not just on videos either.
Engines are getting more efficient and quieter every year, and cars are better insulated as well. Customers are disappointed when they spend big bucks on a car only to find out it doesn't sound like a big old sport car.
The solution? Manufacturers actually add speakers next to the engine, exhaust and inside the car.
You sometimes get V8 sound out of a V6 car :)

http://www.caranddriver.com/fe...

Re:Not only for Tesla or videos

[GodfatherofSoul]

They should just play Yakety Sax. That makes *everything* speed up!

All cars should be required to make a Vrrumm sound

[Anonymous Coward]

It is 38.6% more likely that puppies will wander into the street in front of a quiet car.

If it is a Tesla car they could get wedged under the car where they will burst into flames from leaky batteries.

It is obvious that 60mins was playing this car noise to warn the puppies to get off the road while they were filming for the report.

Re:The noise problem is not just a TV one.

[Sockatume]

That's actually something that's happening. Apparently it's quite an interesting design challenge: you don't have to make it sound exactly like an automobile, so there's room to produce a "better" sound. One that provides more directional cues, maybe, or carries more consistent information on vehicle speed, or which is subtly distinguishable for each car so that you can better understand a busy street.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:I need ...

[CanHasDIY]

I thought I missed the sound of a 28.8k modem establishing a connection, until I set it as my ringtone.

60 minutes is not longer of value

[cfulton]

They have lost all credibility in the last year. They are no longer a news outlet but the paid shills of their network an their sponsors.

Re:60 minutes is not longer of value

[HornWumpus]

In the last year? They've been known to change questions but keep answers to make people look like weasels for 30+ years.

Electric cars and downshifting

[Andy Dodd]

Actually there are valid reasons for an electric vehicle to shift gears - just because many electric vehicles only have one gear doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for having multiple gear ratios.

Although in the case of EVs, shifting tends to be more speed-dependent than load-dependent. While EV motors are typically constant-power, there ARE torque limits at low speeds due to current limits. Although this usually means that an EV that has more than one gear ratio needs far fewer than an internal combustion vehicle. (as in, even two gear ratios is usually enough in the rare cases where only one gear ratio wasn't.)

See Charles Guan's burnoutchibi project as one example.

Traffic congestion

[sjbe]

The object of the carpool lane is to reduce greenhouse gas emission per capita.

The object of a carpool lane is to reduce traffic congestion. Reducing tailpipe emissions is a second order benefit.

Re:Traffic congestion

[OneAhead]

If it would be Europe, they would explain it as "reducing greenhouse gas emissions while at the same time recovering some of the taxpayer's money that went into road construction". But since this is the USA, we can't slap taxes onto undesirable things because that's "socialism". Don't ask me why. It always puzzled me that they banned a lot of popular incandescent light bulbs, rather than slapping a tax onto them and investing the income in renewable energy. The bulbs would die out effectively, but you'd get to keep the infrastructure improvements. Slightly more on-topic, there are the plans to ban vehicles that don't meat certain fuel-efficiency standards. Why not leave people the Freedom (Which Is More Important Than Anything Else In Life) to buy them but simply tax them? Or much fairer and easier to implement, tax the fuel itself, or at least stop sponsoring it through tax breaks for the oil companies. Assuming the price increases are not too unreasonable and are ramped up gradually enough, The Market (In Which We Trust) will find its own way towards more fuel-efficient vehicles, with built-in exemptions for The Rich (Whose Privileges Shall Not Be Touched) who can afford to pay more in tax. But no, I live in confusion and ignorance. Freedom, especially for The Rich, and faith in The Market are all marks of The Devil, and its name is Socialism.

But I sorely digress. This thread being about the USA, yeah, your "make more effective use of tax dollars" sounds about right.

Re:Traffic congestion

[sharknado]

If a philosophical joke whooshed clean over everyone's head, is it still a joke?

If a Tesla hits a mime in a carpool lane, does anyone care?