Slashdot Mirror
Linus Torvalds Suspends Key Linux Developer
alphadogg writes: "An argument between developers of some of the most basic parts of Linux turned heated this week, resulting in a prominent Red Hat employee and code contributor being banned from working on the Linux kernel. Kay Sievers, a well-known open-source software engineer, is a key developer of systemd, a system management framework for Linux-based operating systems. Systemd is currently used by several prominent Linux distributions, including two of the most prominent enterprise distros, Red Hat and SUSE. It was recently announced that Ubuntu would adopt systemd in future versions as well. Sievers was banned by kernel maintainer Linus Torvalds on Wednesday for failing to address an issue that caused systemd to interact with the Linux kernel in negative ways."
And this is good.
Quote from the Linus email:
Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None of this "I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me" crap.
Being Kay a Red Hat paid developer, perhaps it's not his entirely fault what's happening. But it's his name on the table, so it's his responsability nevertheless.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
Before everyone gets all shouty, lets remember that the kernel does all of their work in public and Linus just talks like a sailor. This doesn't need to be made into a bigger deal than it is just so commentators can have their pissing matches.
seemed like a harmless pep talk move along
his complaint about systemd has been widely echoed in the Linux world, with prominent contributors like Ingo Molnar, slamming the “excessively passive/aggressive” attitude of the project’s maintainers.
If you ignore requests you piss people off. Sounds like banning the guy was the right thing to do.
You are telling me that Linus was doing it right, and the other person was doing it wrong??
Shocker.
Time for that boy to move along and let someone with fresh ideas take over.
- oh yeah, fresh ideas like: "you didn't build that".
Fresh ideas like: "the consumer created those jobs".
Fresh ideas like: "all responsibility is shared".
----
I think Linus is 100% spot on with his comment:
Key, I'm f*cking tired of the fact that you don't fix problems in the ....
code *you* write, so that the kernel then has to work around the
problems you cause.
But I'm not willing to merge something where the maintainer is known to not care about bugs and regressions and then forces people in other projects to fix their project. Because I am *not* willing to take patches from people who don't clean up after their problems, and don't admit that it's their problem to fix.
Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None of this "I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me" crap. .....
Linus
You can't handle the truth.
Linus just says "fix your code, regression bugs are NOT acceptable". Seems he got suspected after *years* of doing this.
If this wasn't OSS or Linus, we wouldn't even hear about it. Someone would just get fired.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Me. Work and home. Ubuntu Gnome Trusty Tahr - I don't dual-boot. My wife runs Windows 8.1 and I have an OSX machine for development. I don't get why anyone runs Windows. I sort of get OSX, but I prefer Gnome.
I run Mint on my laptop...much better than the crappy Win8 it shipped with.
I would have gotten first post if I wasn't running both the base kernel’s debugging routine and that of systemd.
His problem is that he believes he is right in all things and has a huge ego.
Ubuntu @ home.
"I'm not accepting any patches until you fix your bugs" is hardly suspending someone, it's re-focusing them. This is an important part in any software project, and Linus is doing it well here. There's no ambiguity or hyperbole, just straightforward communication identifying issues and prompting action to correct them.
"Start fixing your shit" isn't even remotely the same thing as "stop doing things".
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
Sure I do ! In fact, it has been my only OS since 1998. Since I unplugged my old Amiga. And no, I never had dual boot. Did I have some tougth times? Sure, I did. I still can remember the "optimized for IE" web, and activeX, and lack of hardware drivers... but, now. Well, it's just working out of the box, and I don't see any reason one would not use Linux (expect for gaming maybe, but this is slowly changing also, it appears).
I run Linux as my primary OS on my home PC.
It has dual boot with Win7 (rarely used) and VirtualBox with WinXP (used somewhat often for a couple of programs).
Maybe people should be paying attention to the sources of the crap they're trying to wedge into our stable systems.
I've been running Linux on my desktop more than any other OS since 1998, and only sometimes do I set up dual booting. Usually Wine or VMs are enough compatibility, and I would rather code on a Linux machine than Mac or Windows anyday.
Linus seems more perturbed about the lack of accountability. Own your mistakes, Then fix them. If you can't, then ask for help.
Debian Sid @ home on my laptop & desktop
CentOS 5/6 @ work on my cluster/desktop
Android on my phone & tablet
Synology @ home for storage, so basically Linux there, too...
OpenWRT on my wireless routers (yes, plural) @ home, so Linux there *too*.
I guess you could say I run Linux...
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
First the idea of "Suspending" a kernel developer is inane. Kernel developers don't work for Linus. Anyone can fork the kernel and work on his own version of it. Furthermore, Kay can write code that other people audit, modify and submit further.
Secondly, it's not an 'indefinite, unconditional ban' as suggested by the summary. Here's the specific line from Linus' email:
Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code
from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
In other words he might start accepting patches from him if he changed his style of operating.
No, it's not the same. Any other questions?
Not quite. From TFE:
Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
More like "Correct your previous assignments until you can turn in more assignments."
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Okay, I'm going to assume that you mean Linux + GNU + X.org + GNOME/KDE/Xfce/LXDE or whatever. I do. It's all I use. I have Windows XP and Windows 7 in VirtualBox because occasionally a friend or family member will call me and ask me something like, "How do I ... whatever whatever."
CowboyNeal is my admin.
From the previous message in the thread, to which Linus was reacting:
It has come to our attention that a system running a specific user
space init program will not boot if you add "debug" to the kernel
command line. What happens is that the user space tool parses the
kernel command line, and if it sees "debug" it will spit out so much
information that the system fails to boot. This basically renders the
"debug" option for the kernel useless.
This bug has been reported to the developers of said tool
here:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s...
The response is:
"Generic terms are generic, not the first user owns them."
That is, the "debug" statement on the *kernel* command line is not
owned by the kernel just because it was the first user of it, and
they refuse to fix their bug.
I don't care if Kay wrote "Jesus 2.0". He broke kernel debugging for all development and responded to this with arrogant platitudes based on architecture principle, rather than join with cooperative interest to seek a solution.
Linus was restrained, in response to such a "community contributor". This is the Linux kernel, not Oxford dons, vying for college chairs.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
No - it's saying since you did your project wrong, we aren't changing how ours works so that you don't have to correct yours.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I run Debian at home on my main systems. Never been dual boot. I had a laptop that dual-booted, but only because I needed to use some software for schoolwork where the linux equivalents did not work well enough (Word/LibreOffice and flash - for a foreign language class.)
They are using git, so this is "I'm not pulling changes from you" instead.
99.99 % spent in xubuntu
Ran Ubuntu for a while until I bought a Mac. Having a real OS with a real CLI and good drivers to save battery life? Awesome.
dude...you were in the shit...
activeX...browser wars...holy crap it brings nightmares
Thank you Dave Raggett
Kay is either an arrogant asshat or an aspberger's victim. Either way, he hasn't demonstrated an interest in collaborating on a solution for the whole forest, over the pure vision of his one, true tree.
Without Linus, Linux is doomed.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Here is the actual bug and arguement: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s...
I run ubuntu in my home computer. Also in my work computer.
My kid uses ubuntu also .
My wife uses Windows 8
No dual boot, anywhere.
I am thinking of changing my media center into either android or windows though, damn netflix. But right now it's Ubuntu-xbmc
Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
n/t
Thank you Dave Raggett
I currently run openSUSE for its relatively up-to-date programs, working wireless drivers (especially for my previous system with a POS Broadcom chip), etc. I now have a system with slightly more Linux-friendly drivers (Intel wireless), I just have to wait for the major distros to support it because it's so new (Debian Testing supposedly does, I just don't want to run Testing...). I might then switch to another distro, but I'm staying with Linux. I primarily use the i3 window manager, except on occasion when I want to play a game on Steam (which doesn't seem to get along too well with i3, so I temporarily switch to KDE).
Ironically, after "upgrading" from the crap that is Windows 8 that the laptop came with to Windows 8.1, the damn operating system can't even boot half the time without locking up. Not that big of a deal, since I rarely need it... but god damn, does it get annoying when I would like to reboot into it for whatever reason. Even worse is when I spend 5 reboots and 15 minutes just to spend 2 or 3 minutes actually doing something in the OS.
So, you want to know who runs Linux, and you don't know what Linux means. Facepalm.
My desktop runs Fedora, and my laptops run Ubuntu Studio, which are versions of the GNU/Linux OS. My Transformer, my no-name tablet, and my phones run Android, an OS based on Linux.
I also have one cheap second-hand laptop that runs Windows, bought only because I had to make precise changes to the layout of a Word doc for my book. Gross incompetence on the part of the person doing layout for my publisher.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
so, basically this is all about you.
Translation: I'm moving the goalposts wayyyyy over there! Now tell me, who can make it to the goalposts?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I use Linux at work and at home. So does my wife on her own laptop. I also maintain a Linux distro on my parents' laptop, which spares them the hassle of dealing with malware/viruses/adwares.
Despite having had trouble with trojans and adware on their Windows PC, and the fact that Linux would cover 100% of their computing needs, I still haven't convinced my inlaws to migrate to Linux, and they've had their PC unusable for a few weeks now, once again, due to adware.
YMMV.
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
I don't get why anyone runs Windows.
Because it works just fine and it is what most people are familiar with? Plus out-of-the-box support for things like games and a wide array of mainstream consumer software.
I don't really get why anyone can be puzzled as to how Windows is a popular OS.
So you didn't read the article and are pontificating just for the hell of it.
This comment is very valuable.
a) Linux IS NOT an OS. b) I run CRUX/Linux as my primary Desktop c) I have been using Linux-based OS(es) as my primary Desktop and Development platform for over 12 years.
Bob is my hope.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
A kid'll use Ubuntu, too.
Wouldn't you?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Slackware. Dual boot with Win 7 for War Thunder. If War Thunder ran easily on Slack I'd chuck the old 80 Gig drive.
I do, no dual boot whatsoever. Same at work
I must admit however that I have a virtual WinXP on my work computer. It is required for some part of the work I have to do.
who runs Linux these days?
Linux is 25 years old now. You don't run it, you walk it slowly with a leash and let it have a pee on the front lawn.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I did until last year when I purchased a Macbook Pro with the 256GB SSD.
It's a work computer that I have total control over. Previously I had a thinkpad, Win7 for Creative suite, PowerPoint, and Trial Director, and Ubuntu for everything else (personal, and petty website work).
The new computer has a small hard drive, and rather than figure out howto:
1) triple boot
2) split it into three pieces
I use Win7 exclusively (I have a small OSX partition that I don't think has been booted since the first week I had the laptop).
Purchased the 13.3 inch for the lightness, and the screen. I can't wait until screens like this hit the PC world, bonus if it's cheaper even! Win7 suffers mildly on the screen, especially CS4, but it's totally work the minor annoyances to have real workspace when I'm off site for weeks at a time.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Me. And other people who have a clue.
flagged as inappropriate. Dice police on the way.
People run windows, because, ummm, maybe it has software that is usable?
Adobe apps for instance. Yes, I could run them on an overpriced mac, that is an option, if I do not mind being locked into the most obviously nefarious corporate slime in existence.
The fact that you don't understand this, means you probably are very limited in your understanding of how people use computers in general. That takes nothing away from your technical skills. Just wouldnt put you in charge of I.T. at a company bigger than say, 2.
Look, windows is still at over 80% market share. You are flat out ignoring reality when you say you dont get why anyone runs windows. It does not make you look smart, I'm sure that was what you were trying to accomplish.
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
The message to which Linus responds is also interesting:
Short story:
The systemd guy uses the debug keyword on kernel command line to spool a huge log - which can hang the boot process, and that is the problem.
Then the same guy claims that the debug keyword is generic so it can't be reserved by the kernel, even if it's been used first by it since a long time...
I can say that Linus is right there, for sure. He's maybe too kind...
Linus is generally fair from what I can tell, and does not except himself from criticism. In that very thread:
Yeah, what Andrew said. My suggestion of per-task or per-cred is
obviously moronic in comparison.
Linus "hangs head in shame" Torvalds
Someone proposed a better idea and Linus immediately admits his idea was worse and moves on. That was also one of Steve Jobs' greatest talents, even though it's in a completely different sphere. He originally said "no" to iPods for Windows and the iOS app store. People presented their case and he changed his mind.
We should all be so willing to admit when someone else has a better idea or we were wrong.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
because the bulk of the software i use isnt available on linux. because the games i like arent available on linux. because it works pretty much out of the box for me. because my clients need me to develop software for windows and thats much easier to do in windows. because much of the peripheral hardware i use is only available for windows (or is a giant pain to get running anywhere else. and, yes, i have tried). and lastly, there is no incentive for me to move away from windows.
if linux is what you prefer or what works best for you, thats wonderful and im very happy for you. windows is what i prefer and works best for me.
Wait, that's not quite right. The family likes to watch their flickershows so I installed an EXT3 driver for Windows and set up the XBox as a Windows Media Center extender to stream stuff to the TV. We gave up on cable TV a bit over a decade ago. From what I've seen at work on lunch breaks, that was the decision to go with.
They just aren't accepting code from him until he fixes that issue. The summary makes it sound much more dramtic than it really is.
I used to be a die hard Linux guy, but for me OSX has always been the nothing works problem of Linux, mixed with an expensive, arrogant, asshole, flavor. Now I use Windows 7 on the desktop. It is pretty stable, and it is wonderful to have everything more or less just work.
I sometimes run Linux and sometimes run Windows. Why? Because it's nice for my OS to piss me off in different ways instead of always the same ways. :-)
My two laptops and desktop all run primarily linux. The desktop and one laptop can dual-boot windows, mostly for gaming (Space Engineers promises Linux support one day, but not yet) and to run a few windows-only programs. I could learn to use the Gimp, but Paint Shop Pro is what I know, and I'd rather not start over with a whole new interface. Rarely done though - I work almost entirely in linux.
If you have TV or any other internet connected consumer electronics elsewhere in your house, in 98% of the cases you run Linux there too.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
God Bless Linus!
Not so sure about that. The very fact that this is news tells me:
1. It doesn't happen too often. There have been a handful of these... over the course of a few years. If it was happening every day, we wouldn't see stories about Linus chewing out some dev, nobody would bother posting stories like this every week or even month for long.
2. Since these stories have occasionally cropped up, I can't think of a single serious kernel story I have seen of any kind. SO the kernel must be in pretty good, stable shape if this is all there is to report.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Yes, but only AFTER Debian, the Distro that Ubuntu, (and many other Distros) are based on, made the decision to switch to systemd. Now if Ubuntu would just go along with Wayland, ...
Linus has the final say in the Kernel, and I have to agree with his decision. He has an excellent track record! ;^)
Variety is the spice of life.
A pirated copy of Win7.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
This story somehow reminds me of the Seinfeld Spongeworthy episode. Elaine finds out that the contraceptive sponge is no longer manufactured so she hoards them and then chooses her lovers based on the fact of whether or not she thinks they're Spongeworthy. I think in this case Linus doesn't have enough sponges left to waste.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
For those of us lacking in perspective on how Fun! kernel debugging is, here is a voice from the MS side of things. Dangerous curveballs ahead.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf
I really and truly respect that.
I have had more than enough experience in dealing with "this is how I do it!" developers. We're talking about writing code -- a set of instructions to accomplish things usually performed by an electronic machine. Things definitely become complex and even confusing at times, but it's NOT MAGIC. And when people need to work with developers and developers with developers and all that, I have run short on patience where some developers believe they are the thing and not the project or the community affected by the project.
To me, the community which uses the project or is affected by the project is the thing. If you write for results, then you agree. If you write to make yourself proud? You're just a bit too self-absorbed. (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being happy and proud of your work, but what you want should never be the thing.)
I just wish Linus would go kick some GNOME team ass and share some wisdom with GIMP developers as well.
So you believe you are wrong?
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
I run GNU/Linux as my primary operating system at home and rarely boot the VM containing Microsoft Windows 7.
XP.
No, they won't.
When there is a reason to, they will.
Note that WordStar and CP/M are still in use to this day.
Need Mercedes parts ?
who runs Linux these days?
for your **personal computer** not work terminal or music server
i'm not talking all FOSS and this doesn't include Android...I'm asking specifically about the Linux OS
also, please specify if you can dual boot w/ multiple OS's
I run Ubuntu on my home and work desktops and manage a dozen Ubuntu desktops at work (mostly developers and customer service reps).
I thought Linux was the kernel so why isn't android a "Linux OS"?
Exactly. I would probably be using it too if I had come to computers late. Back in the 80's when I wanted to upgrade from my Commodore 128 I looked at the PC clones and compared them to the Commodore Amiga and it was no question at all for me. The clones were a fucking joke. Once Mehdi Ali and Irving Gould decided to bankrupt Commodore and then Win 95 came out the only other active system was Apple which was a joke at that time. Everyone was buying Win 95 like it was going out of style. Later when I wanted new hardware I looked at Windows and went "ugh!" and then read about Linux. I bought a dual pentium II server and installed Linux on it in '99 and never looked back. I've never actually used windows much outside of work but I can see why people that never used anything else use it. You can buy anything at all for it. If it's all you ever used you wouldn't know that it sucks.
Probably Windows 7 or Windows 8 and a few people may migrate to OS X. It sure as fuck won't be Linux.
For those of us lacking in perspective on how Fun! kernel debugging is, here is a voice from the MS side of things. Dangerous curveballs ahead.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf
OK. That was GREAT!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Thanks. That should be in the summary.
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
His problem is that he believes he is right in all things and has a huge ego.
Here's the thing: in this case, Linus is definitely right, and Kay is definitely being dickish. Namespacing the switch (checking for "systemd.debug" instead of just "debug") would take all of 5 minutes and would solve the problem, the only inconvenience would be to the systemd developers who would need 8 (!) extra characters on their kernel command lines. Acceptance of systemd is already lower than it should be if everyone judged it purely on the merits, and this kind of thing does not help at all.
Linus can be pretty hard on Kernel devs, but it does go to show the very high standard
expected of kernel (and other) contributors to Linux.
The adage seems to be: Add good code, fix your code if required, maintain/update your code where fit.
Linus is fair, and hard on himself too.
Linus was restrained, in response to such a "community contributor". This is the Linux kernel, not Oxford dons, vying for college chairs.
The kernel has changed from the early days, when every contributor was an enthusiast, interested in making the kernel better. Now a lot of the kernel developers (like this guy) are employed by companies, and write code because their company tells them to, which is a completely different motivation.
It's a much different managerial task, and it must be frustrating for Linus to deal with people who don't actually care.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Also, any system that will die if one person does, then it's too weak to live. Human progress depends on the things people build being made to outlive them.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Let's take a step back and consider what systemd has given us compared to what we had before.
Before systemd, configuring what gets started on Linux systems was standard across all distributions, dating back to before 1995, when I started developing software with Linux. There was /etc/rc.d/init.d or in some cases /etc/init.d and in most cases there were links in rc1.d, rc2.d, rc3.d, etc. It was that simple. Nothing ever broke.
With systemd, a solution in search of a problem, everything changed. Now you have all of these directory hierarchies and countless old bugs that take years to get resolved. For example, "network restart" was broken in Fedora for ages for a machine of mine with one DHCP Ethernet interface and two static Ethernet interfaces (with nothing fancy like wireless). "network restart" fails on a variety of machines I have access to; forget about "network reload." ifcfg-eth0 and the like are simple things, some of the most basic boot-related operations. I've tried to open bugs but the problem seems to be buried somewhere in the guts of systemd.
I've had systems rendered unbootable during upgrades because of silent failures trying to make a good initrd. It's too complex to get everything right with systemd. For a long, long time when the boot scripts died with systemd there was no obvious way to see any errors. Recently they added some more debugging output suggesting that you use journalctl. Why didn't they tell us about that earlier? The reason? No documentation. They wrote an entirely new way to boot the system but kept the design in their heads. Maybe, many years later, there is some scant documentation available (except for that one old useless design document justifying systemd's existence that everyone has read). Of course, nobody writes man pages anymore but they were sure to remove the man pages for the old boot system.
So what new things does systemd give us? Pretty much nothing except for bugs. Maybe there are a few oddball use cases like booting off of weird media, but most people today boot off of a fixed hard drive that doesn't change in years. 19 years later it might be an SSD, but that is the same use case.
His problem is that he believes he is right in all things and has a huge ego.
Sounds like necessary qualifications for the job to me.
Yo. I run Xubuntu. Could never swallow Unity. If I wasn't so lazy I'd try Arch.
Could probably dual boot if I wanted to. It's been years since I bothered with that.
Don't get me wrong, I also have a laptop running Win7. Gotta game on something. And I'm too damn lazy to putz about with WINE constantly. But Xubuntu does everything I want it to other than run Starcraft.
I run Fedora 20 standalone on my laptop (which I use for personal use and work), Fed20 on my desktop also, but it's dual-booted there w/Win7 for gaming. All my servers run FreeBSD :p
Didn't Linus kind of build it?
Fork it good!
"None of this I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me crap!" Linus
Thats telling one, now if only he could go have a scream at the Android developers & telephone network providers with there CVE's that have been sitting on the back burner for the last 9 Months causing millions of people to be at risk of getting badly pwned. Oh no wait Google is the NSA's lap-dog, they say jump and google says how high. Loved there out going Generals comments; "If you think you can do it better, your welcome to try!"
Yeah, we'll reflash the BIOS, then we'll reflash the firmware, then we'll reflash the TSOP, then well plug it into a television set and not some fancy flatscreen VDU and then we'll try to keep abreast of the security updates and CVE's instead of weakening the security standards on them all, much better all round I would say!
Windows(tm) 8.1 Powered by Bing(tm).
Might as well get your spyware directly from the vendor.
Xubuntu at home (Windows-free), XP at work :c
XP is shutting down on April 8
Wrong in one. XP will continue working, but will no longer receive security updates. People will continue to use XP until their systems die (from hardware or software failure; software failure likely being virus related).
soulskill must be a shill or friend of Kay Sievers... otherwise why the over-dramatic & bs title?
I currently run software on Linux, Windows and OS X simultaneously on a single machine. It's true: the issue is not about the best OS but choosing the best tools regardless. The whole question of which OS is the best is so 90s. There really are no borders these days.
The same install of XP, minus the annoying constant stream of patches?
Unless you're talking about large business, then they'll be (and are) switching to Win7.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Linus is providing that which is severely lacking in open source projects. Discipline. No you don't get to do whatever you want neither is there any excuse for breaking shit. Without people like Linus ABI back compat would have been shattered into little bits by now.
That's a feature, not a bug.
By the way I recently discovered that Daz's Windows Loader does not support GPT partitioning scheme. Just something to keep in mind if you plan on doing a pirated Win7 install to yourself or your relatives: don't do an UEFI install if you want to use Daz's.
You can't discount Android for this. Android is a Linux distro and uses the Linux kernel.
The people on one side of this are valuable. The ones of the other side are a problem, i.e. have negative value. It is pretty obvious which side is which.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
XP.
Careful. Your face might freeze that way...
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
One thing you can't say about him - that he's slow to act on bugs...
Rethinking email
As far as I can tell using OSX is the primary sign of being a pretentious asshole. But I don't go around calling pretentious assholes what they are. Because I am, you know, respectful?
I sometimes run Linux and sometimes run Windows. Why? Because it's nice for my OS to piss me off in different ways instead of always the same ways. :-)
Very well said. I have thought the same thing often.
Kay is banned from commiting to the mainline Linux Kernel.
The bug we are talking about is in the systemd codebase.
RTFA please.
But the most interesting thing to me on *this* particular event is that Torvalds seems to agree in principle with Kay Sievers on the core quote:
Generic terms are generic, not the first user owns them.
Torvalds eventually says in the thread:
we very much expose /proc/cmdline for a reason. System services are *supposed* to parse it [...] that does include "quiet" and "debug". Parsing them and doing something sane with them is not a bug, it's a feature.
Of course, the issue here is that a complaint represents the straw that broke the camel's back. Here systemd was horribly abusing a kernel interface in their userspace code and I assume there have been a lot of other incidents that have piled up to have Torvalds make a strong statement.
I do agree that 'debug' in /proc/cmdline shouldn't be considered sovereign territory of the kernel alone. The average joe linux admin is aware he is trying to debug 'the boot process' but not know if it is kernel or init or what. The issue here was not that systemd got a bit debug happy when a kernel was being debugged, but that their debug output horribly abused /dev/kmsg and perhaps was a bit more verbose than would be reasonable.
It did make me feel somewhat pleased to see so many prominent kernel development people express dissatisfaction with systemd though.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
There is no such thing. Linux is just an OS kernel. It may be a key part of what you consider an OS, but it's still just a part.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Who cares about systemd anyway? Slackware user here...
The "perhaps less Unix like" part is funny:
http://forums.scotsnewsletter....
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Me: Gentoo at home. CentOS at work.
My wife and children use Ubuntu.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
At best you are stupid. At worst (and that I expect), you are a paid shill of the US intelligence community. What you claim is totally disconnected from reality and a nice example of disinformation tactics.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
GNOME Shell has the same problem... With developers worshipping their singular designer, Allan Day, and with Allan imposing his will despite tons of input from users about how his designs are not usable and are tracking behaviors from old versions OS X that Apples long ago admitted weren't usable and has since removed.
I see the problem resulting from this: Since 2010, European developers have eclipsed American developers in the Open Source community, in part because the US is experiencing another tech boom since ~2010, keeping the US devs out of open source and consumed with their professional work.
Our ancestors left Europe for a reason (European == You're-a-peon). These European devs don't have the benefit of that experience.
-=/\- Jizzbug -/\=-
Linus: You didn't build that. We built that.
You broke that.
You're fired!
At best you are stupid. At worst (and that I expect), you are a paid shill of the US intelligence community. What you claim is totally disconnected from reality and a nice example of disinformation tactics.
Oh please mr smart man .. please enumerate on the reasons why you posted that response.
*Gets popcorn .. sits back and waits*
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I used to work with a guy who was a MS kernel hacker. He knew the debugger setup in all it's arcanity backwards and forwards, and had a lot of code knowledge there too, despite never working at MS. It was great fun to watch IT try to manage his machine through normal tools (to push updates and reboots and whatnot). He was having none of that, but he wasn't going to pick a fight with IT, instead he just ensured that the IT client tools were kept happy, that the kernel always told them what they needed to hear.
Never pick a geek-fight on a machine that your opponent has a kernel debugger attached to. Ahh, old-school hacking. How I miss the art.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Yes, I could run them on an overpriced mac, that is an option, if I do not mind being locked into the most obviously nefarious corporate slime in existence.
This kind of flame bait would preclude me from modding a post insightful for informative, even if the rest of the post is fine. Just saying.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
That is all you have? Pathetic.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Eat that shit boyeeeeee
But it's really sad that things like this get elevated to this kind of situation, and I personally find it annoying that it's always the same f*cking primadonna involved.
I don't get why anyone runs Windows
Developing commercial software for Windows, games, Photoshop. That's my list.
I cannot help but feel as a part of the Linux world that somehow Linux has become... an odd place to be an IT guy. I feel increasingly uncomfortable working on something that *I see* as becoming more and more balkanized all the time. I'm not one to bash Linus, as this is his gig, but the Linux community as a whole is broken. Fighting over X replacements, system internals disputes, you name it. I wish things were tight, more like a tech magisterium up top. There needs to be more cohesiveness, not less. Some may say this is one of the beauties of open source development. In some ways, yes, but in more than not, no. If we are honest with ourselves in the Linux community, we need to address this and other issues.
That is all you have? Pathetic.
In other words you obvious trolling is obvious
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
People run windows, because, ummm, maybe it has software that is usable?
Ah! So you're saying that its applications that people use computers for, not OSs! I agree. You now must realize that it costs nothing extra to the developers to select a cross platform development toolchain instead of a platform specific one which may tie them to OSs that have uncertain futures. AND if they go "cross platform or bust" then they get free money via increased market share.
Unfortunately if their codebase started out with a vendor-lock-in solution then their products will be hard to "port". However, it takes me only a single "git pull && make" to port my changes from my application's GNU/Linux development environment to GNU/BSD, GNU/Mac or GNU/Windows, and indeed with my cross complier toolchain that single command builds all targets. The uniform userspace reduces changes required of my build system and code. LLVM is another option, but I've had this build setup prior to even mingw, and see no real benefit to change as my C/C++ platform abstraction layer allows me to deploy as even JAVA bytecode with GCC. In my continuous build-test-deploy setups recompiles are done periodically as I push changes to the server and any build errors appear on a webpage in my issue tracker detecting regressions across all platforms without me doing anything extra than a single "git push".
So, really, it is not Windows that keeps people on Windows, it is application developers who haven't yet been sufficiently pressured by their publishers into increasing their install base.
means you probably are very limited in your understanding of how people use computers in general.
Most people use the OS that's installed for them for the lifetime of the hardware, and use the applications available for it. Most people select the hardware with the OS that supports the applications they want to run. When XP came out I was selling PCs and the #1 question asked was "Can I install $APPLICATION on it?", this is still the prime question in the mind of the consumer: What apps can it run?
MS is shooting themselves in the foot with the whole Metro App Store thing. That's another vendor lock-in strategy. I've seen plenty of devs now reconsidering their codebase and dev platform and asking, "Well, I don't want to lose W7 installbase, and if I'm going to put in an abstraction layer for W7 and Win8 UI Style API, then I might as well spend a little more effort to go full cross platform, reach for additional market share, and no longer be tied to W8."
Not saying your comment is wrong, I'm just saying it won't be right for very much longer. It's 2014, the OS is irrelevant. It's merely a means for the platform abstraction layer to talk to the underlying hardware. Hell, my meta-language compiler has even made most languages irrelevant to me, they are just interfaces to the OS for re-implementation of the platform abstraction layer's "runtime". In 18 months I will have my entire codebase cross compiling against Android and even iOS.
Another response from Linus...
http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/...
The ass-kissing is hot and heavy today I see.
A factor in Windows dominance is the fact most computers come with Windows and people just stay with that by default. Engaging computer manufacturers to actually look at Linux as an alternative would probably help. This brings a second factor in that Linux is often very antipathetic to binary drivers even though such drivers would likely accelerate open source driver development as it would allow for back engineering to be made easier. Such binary drivers could provide support for hardware quickly and in a timely way until open source drivers become available. I think that Linux should provide a driver compatability layer for binary drivers. This would not impact open source drivers. Open source drivers could still be built for a particular kernel version. If someone buys a USB camera they just want to be able to plug it in and for it to work, not worry about if it will run on Linux. Thirdly is a lack of applications, but this sort of is the result of lack of users, due to the previously mentioned deficiencies.
Another recent problem with Linux is the extremely poor user interface introduced by Gnome 3 and Unity which are as bad as Windows 8 and actually seem to harm the opportunity for Linux to be able to take market share from Windows by staying with the traditional taskbar, desktop, start menu model which really is best for most desktop users. Though, on Linux there are alternatives that provide the traditional model.
I think that it would be nice of someone were to fund some sort of open source project to really get Wine to better than 99% compatability with all windows applications and for a project to be started to build a driver compatability layer that would allow Windows drivers to work on Linux. I think that would really move Linux to being a real alternative to Windows to the point where computer manufacturers could actually just start installing Linux by default. Perhaps computer manufacturers ought to fund this work as well.
I run dual boot Ubuntu and RHEL 6.4 at work with 99% of the time being ubuntu. I use a Dell laptop running OS X 10.9.2 at home.
Torvalds is not somebody I would like working for.
But he's just the guy I want to defend the purity of the source and crush heresy anywhere is shows its beady little eyes.
The article in Network World made the encounter more alarmist than what I read on the LKML. I can understand Linux getting grumpy about getting stuff that 'kinda works' but breaks gobs of other stuff. A 100% positive contribution is the goal. A patch that is 60% good, and 40% bad is a step in the right direction, but the 40% needs to be addressed before its practically useful (otherwise bug reports start flying around and it eats peoples data and Linus' and other developers reputations along with the entire community suffers). Being told about problems and not being able to fix them (and saying so and asking for help) is one thing, just putting code 'out there' for others to clean up time after time is a whole other thing. I think Linus has tried the 'coaching and developing' method for quite a while, and now instead of using the carrot, he is using a stick. Sometimes it blows up (like this), but often its for the best. I assume if Kay Sievers can write kernel code, then he knows how to write good, clean, well-tested kernel code.
Did you read the thread? This wasn't just Linus complaining, it was 2 other kernel developers that originated the complaint. And this wasn't a minor thing, this was Sievers introducing a bug that caused the system to fail to boot! by using a long-established kernel boot parameter ("debug") and having it trigger a data dump large enough to cause the boot process to fail, and then refusing to fix it on the grounds that the kernel didn't own the "debug" parameter (http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01327.html).
If I worked for you and you canned Linus over this, the very next day my resume would be being shopped around and I'd be spending my off time perusing every job-lead source I could think of because you're the kind of manager who causes projects to go down in flames and I'd much rather get out while I can do it on my own terms.
80% and falling (or shall we say failing?) hard.
I personally use Windows as a desktop OS, but that's only because of _legacy_ games, and because the nvidia drivers for Windows, as utter shit as they are, are still better than Nouveau when it comes to performance (but not stability).
All the good games nowadays are multiplatform or platform-independent (java/mono), the "current" edition of Windows are tablet fantasy garbage (Microsoft is backpedalling HARD on that now.. probably too little, too late at this point).
I'm running out of reasons to support it.
Also a lot of those big commercial apps are only slightly better than their F/OSS equivalents. The extra 5% you get out of Photo$hop or Office is more than offset by their hundreds (or thousands in the case of photoshit) of dollars of price difference.
Well that and Adobe's SHITWARE is always coming up as "vulnerable" in my plugin check. Completely uninstalled Adobe Reader last time, it's slow, broken, and ass anyhow. I wonder what sort of vulnerabilities photoshit is putting in your system?
If you _need_ that extra five (or maybe tops, ten) percent, well, maybe you should find another job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Sievers - "Kay is also known for being a developer "who don't clean up after their problems, and don't admit that it's their problem fix", breaking the linux kernel and being ban by Linus Torvalds himself[5]" (LOL Troll)
Have you missed Linus' on-going history of verbal abuse? Did you miss the part in this story where Linus admits that he has an ongoing issue with Kay, but only chooses to deal with it by blowing up and throwing a mini tantrum when something breaks?
If it wasn't Linus, would you take that sort of crap from $Generic_Manager? And if not, why is allowed to act like that?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
The way to solve this is by mandatory CHECK-IN gates that all check-in packages MUST pass a set of criteria.
I see this as a failing of the BUILD SYSTEM and not any key developer per se.
It seems Torvalds is always in the middle of the drama. It's like little teenage girls having a spat every time someone sneezes.
My home computer is dual boot with Ubuntu (12?) and Windows 7, and I never use Windows on it (I know because there is a bug and it does not work with the serial keyboard, so I have to dig out and plug in the USB keyboard that came with the machine if I want to boot it into Windows, and right now I don't even know where that keyboard is (ps the bug is strange: only the login does not work. Once you log in the serial keyboard works just fine)). We also have a much older iMac and a couple Android tablets and one iPad, an ancient iMac PowerPC used to play music on the stereo, and an ASUS Linux netbook that amazingly still works and is used by visitors more than I would expect.
I'm not sure what your working environment is like, but that kind of behavior is NEVER acceptable. You're making excuses for it. He could have said the very same thing, and been professional at the same time.
"Unfortunately you seem to continue to focus on new features rather than fixing old bugs. As such I'll no longer accept your commits until you fix those bugs we deem critical. I apologize if this puts a kink in your development plans but I have the health of the entire Kernel to consider. Here is a bullet pointed list of bugs that need addressing before we can move forward."
Same message, but without being an ass.
I run Linux at both work and home. At home I run multiple instances on multiple computers (4). No dual boot though I still have an XP partition hanging around with old data but it is no longer a dual boot partition.
A good Friday laugh at least
The fact that you don't understand this, means you probably are very limited in your understanding of how people use computers in general.
Word processing, e-mail, instant messaging (is now dead), Facebook, iTunes/spotify, Amazon.
I have always considered specialized programs as a non-common use case. PC games are not PC users; they are DIY console users. I understand that games run better on Linux--I've been there with Linux release games, I've run on dual-boot Windows/Linux and I always found that even the same game run on Linux runs much better (hit-and-miss if you're running Wine instead of i.e. native Doom 3, Quake 4, etc., but sometimes it DOES run better than Windows). But many of these things are on Windows and not on Linux, and that's why gamers use Windows.
Graphics designers. You can use a lot of graphics apps on Linux. Same with audio, video editing, and so on. If your software is Windows-only, you use Windows or you do some magic bullshit with Wine that I don't expect engineers who are not computer engineers specifically to figure out--they don't have the domain knowledge to solve abstract system administration problems.
I've always found Windows inadequate. Getting software for Windows is difficult; there is so much software just available for Linux that does what I need, like digital music collection management. Even where it's available on Windows, it's either not as good (feature-wise or has a shitty UI) or it's not as easy to install and/or keep updated (nothing is as easy as a package manager--Ubuntu Software Center is fucking amazing, it's the next iteration of package management). Doable, but irritating. And Linux just works better and provides a desktop UI for me that works and then gets the fuck out of my way; Windows provides a clunky shit heap.
People want familiarity, which is why we say people don't know what they want. They want GNOME 3 or something, but all they get is Windows 8. They've been exposed to Windows 8 so much that they can immediately use it much better than GNOME 3; but GNOME 3 is fundamentally better and, with some use, will make their daily computer use much more comfortable. That's not to say it's perfect: I fucking hate the alt-tab behavior because it is highly unintuitive and requires extra keystrokes much of the time (it's legitimately wrong, not better-but-unfamiliar), and I believe we need a next-generation hybrid floating-tiling window manager. But it's better than single-panel with start menu and tray.
It's not a "Windows is just better at this" thing. It's a familiarity thing. Linux is suited to replace a lot, but also falls short for things requiring specialized software that doesn't run on Linux. It's as suited as OSX, really: some people have arbitrarily switched because Windows was nothing special and they had no specialized needs tying them to Windows, and the vast majority of those who haven't are in that group and just have not switched because they are not interested in putting out the effort to re-learn human-computer interaction.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Yes, I could run them on an overpriced mac, that is an option, if I do not mind being locked into the most obviously nefarious corporate slime in existence.
The fact that you don't understand this, means you probably are very limited in your understanding of how people use computers in general. That takes nothing away from your technical skills. Just wouldnt put you in charge of I.T. at a company bigger than say, 2.
Look, windows is still at over 80% market share. You are flat out ignoring reality when you say you dont get why anyone runs windows. It does not make you look smart, I'm sure that was what you were trying to accomplish.
Well, your whole post does a great job of making you look like a bigoted idiot that shouldn't be involved in any IT, so pot kettle and all that.
Will he resume?
New ideas like trolling politics in a software development thread? You realize that he doesn't actually support your BS causes, right?
there is no god.
there is no magic.
there are no souls
With you so far...
Blessed be Rationality and Self Interest, the One True Engine of Progress!
What is the meaning of blessings in the absence of gods?
Well then I'm glad I don't work for you, you sound like a complete dick.
If you want your contributors to be passionate about what they do, don't expect them to "take every discussion offline" like generic project managers with arts history degrees. It's doing your job that is professional, not evading responsibility.
Eh, did you even read the thread? The bug reports?
Linus is outspoken and blunt but as long as the subject is not licenses he is also usually right. In this case, doubly so.
Unfortunately what tends to pass for "fresh ideas" these days are the same old bad ideas only expressed less shamefully. Deliberately introducing bugs in your project to force another project to make the changes you want in order to work around them is a very old idea but it's still not a good one.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
(Confused by beta's layout)
Android
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
As noted, it wasn't Linus that started the blow-up. It got to this point because Sievers was ignoring more professional, less blunt instructions about it. And yes I'd rather deal with Linus. Because if I pulled the kind of crap Sievers had I'd've expected to have my manager drop my final paycheck on my desk and tell me I had 5 minutes to pack my things and the nice gentlemen from Security would be escorting me out of the building, and no I wouldn't be receiving a separation package because I was being terminated for gross incompetence. I'd rather deal with a manager who'll chew an incompetent developer out for being incompetent, as opposed to one who'll just send off iteration after iteration of "professional" memos about the developer having a problem and never actually do anything about the problem. At least with Linus I could be pretty sure I knew exactly where I stood with him.
Then again, I've written code that did exactly the same thing Sievers' code did. But I did what Sievers should have done in the first place, hung it off on it's own specific enable flag so it couldn't be turned on inadvertently, because I knew it was going to bring the system to it's knees and that was something that should never be able to happen as a side-effect of something else.
Being an ass is his job.
He has his "cult status" because he is almost always right, and when he's not then he admits it at once without coming up with stupid excuses.
He is managing people who appreciate directness and efficient communication. It may seem rude from the outside, but he adapts his leadership to the people he leads. That is enough for me to want to hire him if you were to fire him.
Windows 8.x when it gets it's start menu back
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
Systemd replaces init and is the first daemon to start up in user space during boot and the last daemon to shut down. When its developer sees nothing wrong with breaking the kernel debug during boot merely because its developer feels that he's entitled to use the same parameter name and the kernel boot be damned, you REALLY have to wonder about the wisdom of using systemd.
>I am thinking of changing my media center into either android or windows though, damn netflix. But right now it's Ubuntu-xbmc
Have you tried setting up pipelight?
"By their you mean ".
Here he was correcting the previous mail's generalization and making it specific. In the bug referenced the person Torvalds called out was specifically the person who crafted that response.
Adobe apps for instance. Yes, I could run them on an overpriced mac, that is an option, if I do not mind being locked into the most obviously nefarious corporate slime in existence.
And Microsoft is sooooo much better? You know, the same Microsoft that completely broke 98% of the worlds workflow and took more than a year to say "we fucked up, we're going to fix it soon"?
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
It's even funnier if you look at the history (reformatted for /. )
10:19 UTC - closed, 'not a bug' (kay) ...
10:39 UTC - reopened (bp)
12:06 UTC - closed, 'not a bug' (kay)
13:18 UTC - reopened (bp)
14:08 UTC - closed, 'not a bug' (kay)
14:09 UTC - reopened (jirislaby)
14:10 UTC - closed, 'not a bug' (kay)
14:11 UTC - reopened (jirislaby)
14:12 UTC - closed, 'not a bug' (kay)
14:40 UTC - reopened (bp)
'rabbit season'
'duck season'
As noted, it wasn't Linus that started the blow-up. It got to this point because Sievers was ignoring more professional, less blunt instructions about it.
Just be cause it crossed the line doesn't excuse Linus' behavior. If there is a history of incidents like this then Linus had ample opportunity to take this guy aside and deliver an ultimatum of "This is what happens if you do that again", and then have the balls to quietly act on what he had stated the next time Sievers tried to pull any crap. Instead Linus chose to ignore the history and let things get to the point of blowing up and telling the guy he is a fucking idiot in a public forum. Read any decent management book and they'll tell you that that is not the way to act. Such management styles are immature and ultimately unproductive, and any decent manager can chew you another one without resorting to displays of anger.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Owen Linzmayer's Apple Confidential
Is that some variation of Folding@Home for Linux distro development?
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
Is the word shill you use for someone you disagree with and want to shut down their argument?
I disagree with what he said but your response is borderline 'they are out to get us and hand me my tinfoil cap'.
His point is Linus should have privately pull the guy to the side and had a discussion with him instead of in public. I disagree because that shit does not work. I have tried it over the years and usually I have to end up public anyway. By that time everyone is pissed. If anything Linus was too nice about it.
That is how you respond to someone you do not disagree with.
A shill 'would have been my OSX machine never has this sort of issues that we see it works the best in the world.' If you can not tell the difference slow down and re-read it.
Would it start off with you saying: "uh... Yeah... So I guess we should probably go ahead and have a little talk, hmm?"
I wish systemd would have gotten a kick when they proclaimed that you can't have a seperate /usr partition.
The ongoing issue is Kay. I expect everyfuckingone to have an issue with him!
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
He was professional long enough. It didn't work. Kay doesn't seem to care enough if you're nice to him. As a leader, you have to use what works. Demonstrably, being nice to Kay was leading to nowhere. Granted, being not nice to Kay may not work either, but it's definitely worth trying. It's also worth it to let everyone else know that this kind of shit attitude (like Kay's) is not going to be taken lightly.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I'll bite the troll as well : I've been happily running linux as my main OS at home since 1996. The last time I dual booted with win2k was in, well, 2000. Ever since then I've been solely using Debian, and it's been filling all my needs : web, programming, word processing, scientific computing, and so on (though I reckon I don't play games). Why would I trade reliability for something else ?
I used to dual boot with Windows, but found myself having no need of the dual boot. I now run only Linux on both my main desktop and laptop. I run a Debian based system with i3 as the windows manager. For my desktop, I boot everything except the home folder off a usb stick and into ram for regular use (very fast and secure).
Linus didn't build it either. He copied it from far superior minds.
Linus gets snarky with another kernel developer, and tons of Linus Torvalds fanboys on Slashdot spooge themselves thinking about their hero. They wish they could put on their gimp suit, become kernel developers and get themselves verbally whipped and beaten by Linus on the LKML.
A good manager should have pulled this guy up a long time ago...
I think Linus isn't really a manager so much as a gatekeeper. As such he does a pretty good job.
What makes you think Linus has not tried this level of politeness? From what I've read of him, he is normally very friendly towards the clueless and the sloppy. The problem is that not everyone learns. What would YOU do if the same developer would commit the same offence again and again despite your politely phrased teaching moments? Remember you cannot fire the developer, because you're not employing him.
I would say that a more sharply worded rebuke is appropriate here. Personally I would not use swear words even in these circumstances, but that's a matter of style. Grumbling about prima donnas certainly makes sense to me.
Systemd is most likely the biggest threat for Linux as an OS since ever.
Nobody ever really asked for it, it shits on Unix concepts (I could live with that, though), it is far to monolithic, it is bascially "owned" and pushed by one company...
The only reason for systemd existence is to grab more power for Red Hat and make others depend of Red Hat cruft.
Man that sounds like a prepared statement. The kind I expect to hear from... a PR guy. It just feel so fake.
Not that I disagree that THAT is a more polite way to do it (and probably better). I would prefer a less PR way to say it, though. It feels wrong to me."
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
Single core atom, and pipelight is not very pretty or reliable.
If I change the hardware, it's gonna be an android tv box , or a tablet I have lying around.
Well, here goes:
if Linus had an on going issue with this guy he should have addressed it directly
As I read TFAs, he didn't have an ongoing issue. Just a repeating one, which -knowing Linus- I'd wager he had already addressed.
instead of the starting with the sweeping generalization "By their you mean ".
That is not a generalization. Quite the opposite. Steven, who Linus replied to, did the generalization to protect the guilty.
Waiting for something to break and then throwing a tantrum
It doesn't seem anyone was waitng for stuff to break. Borislav just noticed an issue that systemd parses kernel command line in a sub-optimal manner.
and saying "its my ball I'm not letting you play with it now", is as childish as it seems.
If Linus feels Kay's contributes persistently are sub par not due to code quality but coder attitude, what else can he do?
A good manager should have pulled this guy up a long time ago and said "Don't try any of that shit any more. If you do here is what is going to happen..". A bad manager blows up about it in public.
But Linus is not Kay's manager. This is an open source project.
Perhaps you now see gweihir's point? Not that gweihir expressed it as elegantly as Linus expressed his...
Let me put it this way: when I read Linus messages, I see a human behind them that believes what he is saying. It feels genuine and real. The alternative sometimes sounds like a prepared speech from somebody who may or may not care. Like a politician.
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
You are clearly alone. I've worked for people like you. I was treated like crap and I left. I was treated like I was a dime a dozen. When I left, I left a dime on the desk "There, go get your dozen". And then the shit hit the fan (no I didn't break anything, it was all fine when I left), but the bone-heads they tried to get for the dime weren't up to the job. And they tried to hire me back. And things broke (and it made the local TV news and newspapers). And eventually all the professional managers were reassigned and they had to out source all of it, because *they* weren't up to the job either. Linus is *clearly* up to the job. He has his qualifications both technically and as a leader. You are some goof who writes "Fire Linus on /." Nobody works for you.
I mean it's definitely inflammatory, but can you really deny it?
Last I checked, Linux is 20 years old.
@home: Ubuntu, @work: Ubuntu with Virtualbox running windows for email, @work.server: Debian
No dual boot anywhere
nosig today
Umm...who would fire Linus? He's in charge.
Personally, the more of these articles attacking his dealing with a situation in a way which seems reasonable to me from a programming project perspective appear, the more faith I have in his leadership.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Read the bug report. It's obvious that Kay has decided that the problem he created is someone else's problem to fix because his program works the way he wants it to. Even if it is a relatively easy fix and that he is going against de facto standard API behavior in a way that is allowing his program to undermine the core of the system. If everyone wrote like this, Linux would be riddled with systems that won't boot and/or potentially have serious security flaws. It may not be Kay's fault entirely though. Being a paid developer for RedHat he may be instructed to write things a certain way or to spend a certain amount of time on a project. But, his completely unapologetic nature and insistence that someone else fix it while acknowledging that what he did isn't how it should be, is a frustrating situation for everyone else involved. And in this case, it's an easy fix (so someone will fix it for him); I don't see how his employer could want things this way.
Linus did the right thing. When it get to bugs -- Time goes hate grows. This makes me think about somewhat old news about Ubuntu switching from upstart to systemd. Shuttleworth admitted the most forward looking piece is upstart. The only reason 'Buntu agreed is because it is pushed from Debian. Now this friendly exchange makes me think about the red light district: what is right and what is not? I am sticking with upstart. What I really want to know are pros and cons of both... Anyhow, let me know if I am comparing apples to oranges
It just means a new Linus would be needed. There are a few suitable candidates should the need arise.
The hippie dream:
We don't need hierarchy, or titles, or authority. Just people working together in perfect harmony, everyone loving one another, equal, all in one big room.
The reality:
Most people are delusional or confused, and without authority, they all work on whatever flatters them by making them seem important, which makes them as corrupt as third world cops when it comes to getting the essentials done.
How many open source projects have had missing vital functions for over a decade, or have other essential stuff (documentation, interface) that never quite got done? People do what they want, unless the whip is cracked.
All hail the cracking of the whip.
Futurist Traditionalism
It doesn't mean anything more than: 'viva la' or salute to.
Duh.
Where do you work? I think I'd like to work there. Around here we can't gid rid of useless people, too much silicon valley nicey-niceness gets in the way. I'd like to work somewhere that people can be shitcanned quickly when they so obviously fuck up. I say this sincerely.
...How about you crank out one of those custom patches to add a "systemd-" prefix to all of the systemd-specific kernel parameters, then bundle it into the SRPM?
Warmest regards... an Oracle Linux user.
Yes...Macs aren't overpriced when you consider that the difference in retail prices is basically the same or even less than the difference in resale price. In short, if you buy a new computer every two years and sell your old one, buying a Mac is usually cheaper.
All of my PCs at home are Linux and have been for years. I have a VM of Windows, but use it only for testing. My DVR is a USB capture device and a laptop connected up behind my TV running Debian.
I've got a fix for the Linux kernel that will fix this problem and any future issue.
+ if (!strcmp(p->p_name, "systemd")) killproc(p, "fuck you");
Pull request.
That silly loonix toreballs. But I guess at least he doesn't eat foot gunk while being video taped.
Please don't lecture everyone with the "git pull && make" to port my changes simplicity and excuse that gnu is better.
Last time I tried that with gcc 4.8.2 and avr and even qt4 and got a broken toolchain. And don't say it's because I'm doing it wrong--cause a design is worthless with training and explanation, which is usually buried in a wiki post or bbs.
Debugging requires core and low level design considerations. 9 out of 10 times it's never going to be right the 1st time out. If anyone should get blame it's who allowed it to be pushed without sufficient testing....
a. s/w development 101, why are we releasing code that has a history of faults, sure from the same developer, but still, who allowed its release? Test plans, use cases, tracability, regression testing? Do we even do that anymore in the F/OSS world? This is more of a trust issue than a code issue. Linus need to take this conversation private, we don't need childish scolding in a technical forum for a trust issue. It's unprofessional and with the way kernel development is structured makes the dev environment unprofessional.
b. Fresh ideas like: "all responsibility is shared".
Putting strict, direct blame sure sounds shared. Geez the kernel team discussion is starting to sound like the US Congress.
I've run nothing but Linux on any of my (work or personal) computers since 2005.
On those occasions when I need to work with the Windows versions of our software, I have a Win7 VM that I run in VirtualBox.
Dual-boot? Why would I want to do that?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
"That's what the judge is going to tell my wife."
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Hey, look, another reason to avoid Ubuntu like the plague.
Kay, you are welcome to join OS/2 Warp Community, we need some open source driver developers here !!!!
(...damn... I'm so desperate to get developers to this community)
Let me recommend Windows 8.
Plenty of variety there.
I there were no Linus, man would invent him.
How you like those faggot dicks that are smacking your face now, Repiglican?
How you like those black men mating your white women, Repiglican?
How you like the rise of the real righteous and not religious bigot fucks like you, Repiglican?
Hillary 2016!!!!!
holy shit. the fact you think OSS software is even in the same league as Adobe apps is an indicator you are totally clueless.
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
Not saying your comment is wrong, I'm just saying it won't be right for very much longer. It's 2014, the OS is irrelevant.
And this is becoming more and more true, as things keep moving to the 'cloud.'
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Sure but that's subjective. Post the same two posts on a mac website and the scoring is swapped.
(note also, I use neither, bsd isn't quite as dead as Netcraft suggests)
Need Mercedes parts ?
this is what I was wondering about when I wrote the poll
I agree that this **could** be true...but reading through the responses it seems we aren't quite at the "singularity" point for OS's
Maybe people are taking your "best tool" approach & just b/c of the type of stuff /.'ers use it tends towards Linux
graphic designers still need Mac...it's just all there for you (i do some graphic design)
IMHO Windows is going away...they already give it away free...
When non-Mac PC makers get sick of M$ it's over
Thank you Dave Raggett
Anyone can deny it...the GP's language and content were flame for sure...
Mac's work great overall. The price is usually worth it if you ask people who actually paid full price.
What we need is to be able to acknowledge that there is a difference between "good" for what a /. poster uses an OS for and "good" for what others need.
Many tech-minded people aren't coders...they understand Linux & why its important but just want it to work out of the box
Thank you Dave Raggett
I heard a rumor someone took a dump in your skull.
thing does not equal think.
die in a fire and don't breed for the sake of mankind.
I agree. Here's where we can actually improve the situation right now.
so it's the "publisher" who is the node in the system with the authorization to make the changes
that's who we must convince...it should be easy b/c as you say,
so we, all of us on /., we who actually *do the work* need to speak with ONE VOICE, unanimously, that "cross platform is the only way to go"
we need to delete the concept of OS-locked software from our entire behavioral lexicon
when "publishers" want something done **they have to ask us**
we need to stop fanboi/trolling forever on OS's in public...we need to create a situation where **any time** some non-tech administrator tries to even **mention** going "windows only" that it's "impossible" and "foolish"
we need to say that...loudly, consistentely, and **without** being a fanboi of a certain OS because it shows we're 733t h@xxx0rz...that just muddies the waters and lets them ignore our advice b/c it's too complex for them to understand
when a Windows sales rep calls a "publisher" to try to convince them to make their new software "windows only" we need to create a context where the 'publisher' responds,
"Oh no way. We are all cross-platform in this shop my engineers wouldn't work on something not cross-platform"
Thank you Dave Raggett
Linux doesn't make your dick bigger.
Thank you Dave Raggett
ha! i was wondering if someone would be on gentoo
wow...
so do you think you'll ever need anything else?
Thank you Dave Raggett
I did.
I wanted to keep the whole mobile device thing separate...i wanted to know what running on their **desktop or laptop**
I also know that Linux is a kernel not an OS, but I just wanted to see the Linux/1337 crowd condescend and nitpick for old time's sake...
You know that just because you have esoteric knowledge doesn't make you better than someone, right?
Thank you Dave Raggett
how is my poll a "troll"?
i wanted to avoid fanboi arguments and find out what people **actually use**
and i wanted to know how many people dual boot
WTF is wrong with that?
Linux fanbois are so damn touchy!
I'm not a Linux hater at all!
Thank you Dave Raggett
Actually I've been using Windows 8 for a while. I think I'm almost the one person who... is pretty indifferent about the changes overall. Doesn't affect my usage patterns much at all. I ignore the metro desktop and carry on with my life. :-)
True, still switching. While you may think it insane that some application vendors are still taking their time porting to Win7 also consider that some still insist on using evil parallel port "security" dongles before you can run their stuff.
Some application developers I've met don't yet know how to deal with 64bit and multiple cores, so yes, they are stuck in 1995 :(
That depends what you mean by multiplatform. If you mean Windows + Linux - WINE, IMO the answer to that is "not even close." It's quite popular for Indie games to release Linux ports now, and that's great don't get me wrong. I'm also really encouraged by not just Steam on Linux but Valve's porting of several of their big-name games over. But even though I'm not a big gamer, there are still way too many omissions to move to Linux as a gaming platform.
Things open up more of course if you start including Mac & consoles in "multiplatform". But at least for me, both of those have far more significant drawbacks than Windows has.
That depends what you're doing of course. A while back I thought I would be creating quite a lot of PowerPoint presentations for a course I was teaching. (That turned out to not be the case both because I was spending a completely-unsustainable amount of time on each lecture and because I got a lot more comfortable with lecturing from a blackboard.) I tried out a couple different options for presentation software, and even though I have a lot of things I don't like about PowerPoint everything else sucked so much more that it was easily worth the price -- and that was true even on a grad student salary. (Keynote seems promising, but I neither have a Mac nor see myself buying one with anything close to Apple's current lineup.)
What if your job is awesome? That's a remarkably stuck up attitude: "I don't like your tools. You should change."
Correct, such people must have missed things like Dmitry Sklyarov showing that a breakfast cereal code wheel style letter substitution method was used by Adobe as "encryption". Julius Caesar famously wrote a description of that method, that's how old and well know it is.
OSS software in that league would get laughed at and not taken seriously at all.
AFAIK windows is inherently crappy piece of software .convenience is one thing but you can't just sacrifice ur geek mojo for that.
..Now I have gotten a few games to run over wine . I really dont know why a geek would use windows .. Or even osx ..
The only reason I ever touched windows in the past 10 years or so is for gaming
You'd be better off helping to develop wayland to the point where debian or anyone else would consider going with it than hoping they decide to put in all the work to get it to a point where they could consider using it.
Debian can't just pick it up "off the shelf" and use it as is. Until then why should they be interested? Take a look at the wayland mailing list and see how far it has to go before it's ready to go into a mainstream distro.
Wayland seems to have a fanboy to developer ratio of about 10^6 to one. I suggest evening up the balance instead of just hoping that somebody will pick it up.
Go on - list the teapot storms for our entertainment. Do you want to start with the doctor recently turned coder that doesn't even run linux on his main machine that was told he should "eat his own dog food" (which means run his own stuff) before pushing alpha quality scheduling patched on people? That one seemed fair enough to me but I seem to remember you kicking up a fuss.
I dual boot Debian stable and Debian testing. Currently Debian testing is causing my computer to periodically reboot, so I'm spending most of my time in stable.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Sometimes if you don't then the message does not get through.
"There is a 25mm deep crack in the weld that has opened up by 3mm" doesn't get taken seriously by some but "the weld is so fucking cracked that I can stick a fucking ruler into it" conveys the message in uncertain terms. Sadly that is from a real example. The first bit got excuses, fobbed off and "she'll be right" bullshit. The second got the work done again and done properly.
It's reasonable to suggest that they might, but it would be very harmful if they did so.
The reason is simply effect containment. If kernel developers had to consider how a potentially unlimited number of userspace programs are going to react to non-namespaced kernel parameters, their jobs would be hard or impossible.
In summary, the answer to this question has to be a big "No" to what Kay wishes to do --- it's bad design. If a userespace program chooses to use those parameters, it is wholly and singly responsible for its choice. Effect containment is important.
Whether it's called "banning" or "refocussing" isn't too important.
Whatever one wishes to call it, if someone would do it to Lennart, an extremely large number of long-suffering users of systemd and pulseaudio would be eternally grateful. Like Kay, he's "My way or no way", and the result is pure pain for millions of people.
\o. It's the best system available for my preferences AFAIK. I have several systems, ranging from netbook to servers and I've used linux as internet server (HTTP,SSH), LAN (samba,vnc,X,etc.), gaming (though mostly via wine, dosbox or some console/oldtech emulator), multimedia/entertainment system, etc... you name it.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
Oh, forgot... I don't do dualboot.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
Red Hat has been pushing systemd through acolytes like crazy and is slowly metastasizing into the whole ecosystem up to a point where distributions will no longer be able to avoid it due to man hours required. Given all the ugly things systemd brings to the table, and what scarce payoff you get specially in servers it is bad news. I don't care if Ubuntu or whatever slowly goes towards Microsoftization, but I do care when I see it happening across the whole ecosystem because the agenda of one single company, Red Hat.
It would be nice if systemd just replaced init because it would mean you would have the option to use something else. As systemd spreads across operating system components, your available options are shirking to nothing. Eventually we'll be left with a black box, as binary, opaque and complex as it can get, that handles _everything_ whether you like it or not.
Considering you have no problem using proprietary software, why were you using nouveau and not the official but sadly not open nVidia driver? I have since 2002, back then you could not just pull them from repository... But they've always worked for me.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
You are clearly alone. I've worked for people like you. I was treated like crap and I left. I was treated like I was a dime a dozen. When I left, I left a dime on the desk "There, go get your dozen". And then the shit hit the fan (no I didn't break anything, it was all fine when I left), but the bone-heads they tried to get for the dime weren't up to the job. And they tried to hire me back. And things broke (and it made the local TV news and newspapers). And eventually all the professional managers were reassigned and they had to out source all of it, because *they* weren't up to the job either. Linus is *clearly* up to the job. He has his qualifications both technically and as a leader. You are some goof who writes "Fire Linus on /." Nobody works for you.
Hah, yeah, been there, done that. And then a year or two later, I was at home (working from home more than I ever could have at that job) and the phone rings, and I let the machine pick up after seeing the number... it's the old boss pleading on the phone for my help, stuff is horribly broken and nobody knows what to do, etc. I erased the message and had a grin on my face the rest of the day. Rest of the week actually, they called almost every day (sometimes twice a day), ready to offer me anything to help - Sorry, you treated me like shit my last year there... why would I want to help now? Probably could've made a couple $grand in consulting charges on it...but, value of my LOL'ing and having a smile on my face all week listening to those messages (before erasing them)? Priceless. :-D
....and something went horribly wrong....
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
But I run it all:
5 licenses of XP Pro SP3 (old laptop, main desktop, netbook, older desktop, something I'm forgetting),
1 license Win 7 Home Premium (new laptop, to avoid win8 atrocity),
1 license Vista Business (argh),
1 Xubuntu install (small file server/dev box),
1 Ubuntu install (old laptop),
1 Boxee Box (linux),
1 WAP (linux),
Android 4.3 Tablet (nexus 7),
Android 4.4 Phone (nexus 4),
Android 4.1 Tablet (asus transformer prime),
1 Win95 box (older desktop),
1 WinNT 4.0 box (older desktop),
One of these once had a triple boot with XP or 95 alongside OS/2 2.1 and Yggdrasil Linux....
I'd love to migrate my XP boxes to Win 7 but Win 7 pricing is *still* stupid. And I'm vague on whether the laptop and even the desktops would have full drivers for all of the older stuff. Win 8+ is an atrocity - I can't say how much I hate METRO. Even in XP, I switched to the classic NT look.
Because of my disdain for Metro and Win 8, I may well end up with more Linux boxes. Ubuntu or Xubuntu, although a BSD might be tempting too. I've used RHEL at work and it isn't bad either.
My issue is I have so much software from small producers that I like that only runs on XP (and some of it actually requires kernel hacks - one DB fix in particular - that I am unconvinced will work on a virtualization platform) that I feel I'll have to keep some XP boxes up and running.
I rather hate the fact that I need nothing (except security updates) from Win7 or Win8 and once again I've had to relearn where all the admin tools are and so on (just like every Windows release) and I'm going to have to rebuy a bunch of apps that cost $$$ that work fine for me on XP on the new platform for no increase in utility.
Ubuntu is good and the apps are okay, but honestly they just don't match up to what the MS office apps (for instance) can do. I've tried libre office, star office, and a number of other products. They just aren't as easy to use nor as capable as MS products IMO.
The only compelling reasons to migrate forward are professional experience with the new OSes (most like teeth pulling) and security (given XP security updates are coming to an end... you'd have thought MS could out source this and charge some $ to keep security updates coming for a few more years, but they want you to migrate.
But being on Linux is no protection from changes of a major nature (Unity appearing in Ubuntu as one example). Every platform, even the free ones, if you want to keep up with current levels of software for compatibility and security, you have to take all the other UI changes, repackagings, deprecations, and additions. It's the miserable cost of staying current.
No, I'm not a luddite. I just know that XP gave me functionally pretty much everything I've needed as a professional, small office user, and heavy internet user/developer. Security could have been better (no doubt), but the truth is what Win7 and WIn8 have added has been of little utility to me and therefore is primarily an annoyance. And Chromebook sure isn't a substitute, nor is MacOS.
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
Do you call your Linux "Flash"?
(sorry, your username made that joke inevitable).
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...
Thank you Dave Raggett
People run windows, because, ummm, maybe it has software that is usable?
ha ha dont make me laugh
well there are alternatives to every programs, consoles games are being ported to PC and vice versa so it make u wonder
how many desktop users are actual true programers use full extent of programs? i would use same amount of things in photoshop like in gimp or even less so why do i need it
f else fails there is always virtualbox :)
i give windows infinity to fix their security
You almost got there, but still managed to miss the central problem with your point of view despite coming within a hair's width of realization:
Hell, my meta-language compiler has even made most languages irrelevant to me, they are just interfaces to the OS for re-implementation of the platform abstraction layer's "runtime". In 18 months I will have my entire codebase cross compiling against Android and even iOS.
In 18 months, you'll have your code base cross compiling with your "meta-language compiler". But you won't have produced anything else. After investing these 18 months, you won't have any new shippable software or anything to actually sell. Just a fancy-pants toolchain that nobody - customer, investor, or potential client - actually gives two hoots about.
Yes, your existing software will run on new platforms, but it's not as if there are thousands of customers waiting for the opportunity to pay for it on those platforms, since presumably you have competitors who are already established there. Therefore the most likely benefactor of your cross-compilation will not be your existing codebase!
Look, I love the passion you obviously have. I love the idea of cross-platform everything. The one thing which holds most of these initiatives back is the lack of business sense that accompanies them. Yes, business sense is important in software development, if you ever actually want to ship anything that someone will pay for.
Too many in the open source community write off anything to do with business - with abundant use of "MBA" as a pejorative - and then wonder why they aren't taken seriously at the negotiating table, or why big software publishers don't want to pony up the investment for moving off of Windows. These things cost money. The answer is not to point at them and tell them they are wrong and stupid - regardless of whether that's true or not, nobody appreciates that. The answer is to build a case they are compelled to accept for business reasons. If you can't do that - if you can't build a solid case as to why your way is the right way, using reason and logic rather than invective and politics - then they are completely correct to reject your ideas.
18 months dude. That's almost 2 years, a damned long time in software. That's an enormous opportunity cost to pay for a toolchain. You could have built plenty of other things in that time. I just hope for your sake that the big software houses aren't already doing something similar to you. If Microsoft or Google comes out with an easy to use cross-compiling toolchain in 18 months you will have completely wasted your time.
So basic systemd guy give us faster boot, so he can slow boot wit his debug log.... dosent that sound counterproductive
yes and i am woried about that proprietary code where they can remote do with your sistem whaat they want
that's nice just don't be sellout with putting proprietary code in kernel or elsewhere let user decide wheter they want it
!!KEEP IT FREE!!
( Linus should have forked kernel one with systemd code, one without systemd same as other bad code until it gets fixed )
zontar's not mentally stable or competent and admits it http://slashdot.org/comments.p... so don't waste your time arguiing with the nutjob zontar the mindless (apt name at least due to his delicate condition, haha): he can't digest or understand logic, or reason.
zontar's not mentally stable or competent and admits it http://slashdot.org/comments.p... so don't waste your time arguiing with the nutjob zontar the mindless (apt name at least due to his delicate condition, haha): he can't digest or understand logic, or reason.
Aw, cut him some slack--at least he's a Doors fan.
Oh, and all my mobile devices run Android, and yes, Android counts as Linux.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Only an admitted nutjob like you would use it http://slashdot.org/comments.p... considering it's being torn apart daily by exploits. So much for the years of "Windows is insecure, and Linux is secure" crap you trolling penguin idiots spouted here for a decade and then some. You're all losers and liars as far as that's concerned and about time your own stupidity exposed you all. I think it's utterly hilarious in fact. Fact: The more any operating system is used on any given platform, the more it will be exploited. You morons are reaping that now. You like? It makes you all look so stupid with the crap you all spouted here for years.
key Linux developer suspends Linus Torvalds!
AND if they go "cross platform or bust" then they get free money via increased market share.
Disregarding support costs, which can easily eat up any profit to be had. A customer's Windows or Apple platform is pretty much a known quantity to a support person that doesn't vary as far as where configuration information can be found. Linux, not so much. Which distro are you using? Which version? What packages do you have installed? Are you running on a custom kernel? Did you install an interfering application via apt-get or did you build it yourself? The fact that Linux can be so easily molded to whatever the user wants is a two-edged sword that can make it a nightmare.
proprietary code in systemd can remote shut down linux
Sadly, I suspect this is not quite enough to make it happen. If I want a giant unintuitive glob of shit with unilateral control of my system, I can use Windows. Fuck off, systemd.
you ruined all the goodwill here you dipshit...damnit
asking what OS/kernel/display environment whatever you want to call it is not trolling
I want you to explain why my informal poll, which 44 people responded to, is "trolling"
slashdot roughly defines trolling in the moderator guidelines...show me how i was trolling
i'm not going to respond...i already 'foe'ed you to avoid this shit...damnit i hate people like you
Thank you Dave Raggett
there is no god.
except for the god that leads the religious movement you so fervently invest in your time and efforts into.
there is no magic.
except for that which is promised by the leader of your religious movemnet.
there are no souls.
that cannot be saved by the salvation of your religious leader.
there is nothing beyond the material existence that we know of
which is why all of existence must be dedicated to the leader of The One True Religion.
Blessed be Rationality and Self Interest, the One True Engine of Progress!
which all comes from your religious leader, right?
The reality is that any human-made system will fail because of either fatal defects or accumulated non-fatal defects. Linus' mission is to keep Linux both running and flexible (to support improvement/new features) - and both goals require that no single developer diverts everybody else in the world away from maintenance and/or new feature development backwards to accommodating bugs/defects introduced by that single developer.
If you want to be treated with kid gloves, think back to high school: Resolve your petty differences/behavior problems before you get kicked up to the school principle (Linus, in this case). Merely being kicked up to that level indicates both that your behavior is causing significant problems and that everybody else has already given up on you
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
is going south?
Mairzy doats
What is the meaning of blessings in the absence of gods?
What you are seeing there is a deeply religious person trying to get others to believe him to be an atheist. He buys the act but everyone else sees through it; he has more faith than the pope.
Oh, I know. My team started the work of figuring out how to do Win7 migration two years ago, and started migrating systems 6 months ago. We had to sit down and figure out a completely automated way to do the migration, retaining existing user data. We had a process where every application was reviewed and repackaged specifically for Windows 7, including user acceptance testing. If it didn't work, then replacements were found or we virtualized it.
All our offices are complete now, but we're about 20% done with line-of-business systems, and we're doing over 300/night through automation. We're gonna be done sometime in June - but I hear of other VERY large companies that are taking the "Oh, Microsoft will go back on that April 8 date" approach, and I think they're going to be very unhappy on Tuesday.
There might even be some job openings.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
While on the surface, it may seem like this, the implications are much more serious (for Key Siever).
Linus is the final word in what gets incorporated into the linux kernel. If you can't submit updates to the kernel, you cease to exist in the kernel developer community. Siever is the lead developer for systemd. If systemd needs a kernel modification, and it can't get it approved, that whole project sits dead in the water, until some competing project replaces it. Siever is paid for his development work by Red Hat; we'll see for how much longer.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
he has more faith than the pope.
I don't know if the pope has any faith at all or just plays the part in order to keep his cushy job.
Aye, personally I couldn't respect the person who would use that statement on me.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
Why is there a baby wearing what seems to be an octopussy costume?
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
my question wasn't "loaded" your context which you hear my question is biased
you're one of those who gets fanboi narcissists **self-confidence** from knowing & pointing out irrelevant esoteric details
nitpicking is trolling
I wanted **desktop and laptop** systems...what "flavor"
you're a troll to nitpick that
Thank you Dave Raggett
AFAIK
Thats your first and foremost mistake. The rest of your post just goes down hill from there.
If you don't understand why someone might run Windows or OS X, the ignorance and stupidity is yours and no one else's.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
You now must realize that it costs nothing extra to the developers to select a cross platform development toolchain instead of a platform specific one which may tie them to OSs that have uncertain futures.
I've been writing software for Windows, OSX, FreeBSD and Linux for about 10 years, one app, runs on all of them, both command line and GUI versions ... and I have to say, a statement like that just shows that you really have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about.
There is no toolchain on the planet that can make up for the difference in platforms, sorry fanboy, you don't know what you're talking about.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
instant messaging (is now dead)
I'm sorry what? Are you smoking some PCP or something?
Instant messaging, i.e. SMS text messaging has replaced voice for an entire generation of kids and many adults. Just because your favorite silly little IM network isn't supported doesn't mean your boxed view of the world is actually true.
Instant messaging is extremely popular even if you can't be bothered to leave the basement and have friends long enough to notice it. The only difference is the protocol used and the lack of being tied specifically to one network.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Perhaps you now see gweihir's point? Not that gweihir expressed it as elegantly as Linus expressed his...
Hehe, and I am decidedly not the person to keep a large, complicated diverse project going and on track. Maybe next life ;-)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I wish systemd would have gotten a kick when they proclaimed that you can't have a seperate /usr partition.
Is that true? systemd requires /usr in / ? I used to part all to hell, across spindles - when that was a significant performance issue.
It also made versioning backups of some trees really simple, with cpio, etc.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Makes sense: Zontar has multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Well that's a stretch we could use to define e-mail as text messaging, or Instant Messaging since it's roughly instant. Hell, we could call Twitter Instant Messaging.
Instant messaging (IM) is a type of online chat which offers real-time text transmission over the Internet.
Instant Messaging was not replaced by SMS. Can you SMS if you don't have cell phones, but have a computer? Can you send IM if you have a cell phone without a computer data plan? Of course you can do either: you use gateways that allow you to get off the computer network onto other networks, the same way you can 'read Swahili' by using Google Translate.
You know, we could also call voice "instant messaging", because I can call you and then talk, and when I speak you instantly get my message! Alexander Grahm Bell invented the first instant messaging app!
Support my political activism on Patreon.
yes.
of course it does.
I wanted to poll about desktop & laptop usage...not mobile
What is more interesting is **why** you felt the need to point that out...
Thank you Dave Raggett
I gave up on stupidity 10 years ago . Never used ignorance .. thanks
http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Dad brings down the ban hammer. EOM.
This is why I like having Linus as our Benevolent Dictator For Life.
yes...**exactly** why I phrased it as I did
i was taking a survey...surveys need consistent definitions. idiots attach their personal pride to answering the question "Do you run Linux" which biases answers. I just wanted to know who used it for a certain task *only*....so...i needed to be proactive to avoid idiots like you...you know you're essentially trolling when you make dumb distinctions like that, right?
everyone can see that you nitpick and make your own "personal definitions" just to have an excuse to look intelligent
**stop it**
it is obstructive, needlessly confusing & completely rooted in your personal narcissism
Thank you Dave Raggett
I'm pretty sure at no point did RedHat tell him to ignore a bug his software caused in the kernel.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I keep usr in root, but my subdirs of var are broken up all over the place.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I run my home desktop dual-screen on Linux. My work desktop is also a real box running Fedora, not some low-end terminal.
Both have accelerated video using NVidia cards and 8-16GB of RAM.
All of our smart phones and tablets run either Linux or the other Linux known as Android.
What's your problem exactly?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
The first twenty times you reboot it or have to research how to get rid of a toolbar that won't uninstall that has taken over your desktop, I'm pretty sure you should be wondering "isn't there something better than this?"
The primary reason random people use Windows is because they don't realize they have choices.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Its trolling. If you can't see why, that's not our problem.
You didn't phrase it as an actual poll, you phrased it with intent to drag people into an argument.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Heavy write. Goes somewhere different. Good idea.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Crappy troll smells like crap.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Neat Linux trick -- you can make your own simply by copying his and doing your own damn thing with it. That's the beauty of the GPL. Go ahead, fork the kernel and be rid of Linus forever.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Last I checked, Mac users don't mind being called pretentious assholes.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Why should anyone who misbehaves in a public way be taken aside in a private way? The misbehaviour affects many people, not just Linus. Linus isn't speaking only on his own behalf, but on behalf of everyone who wants to debug the Linux kernel and not have systemd take their system down with it.
Linus' reaction *should* be public. This is Linux, not Windows. We operate out in the open.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I hate companies who believe what you just said. It just piles up until you have a big useless drone army who's so polite nothing can ever get fixed.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I also rapidly ignore PR sounding statements. I roll my eyes and move on.
I want criticisms to sound intelligent, not polite.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
You do realize every intelligent person in the room tuned out at "Unfortunately" right?
That sentence is so boring I had to try three times just to read it completely. Bullet points? Oh god, kill me now.
Unless you expect your employees to vomit a little each time you talk to them, tone down the PC BS and speak straight to the issue.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Way to miss the point
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
thank you for the link, this is hilarious.
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said my "APK Hosts File Engine" is a virus/malware http://slashdot.org/comments.p... but it's EASILY PROVABLE it's not, right there in that link too.
Now PROVE YOUR FALSE ACCUSATION above: Show me a quote OR POST of me posting off topic on hosts where they did NOT apply... go for it!
---
You avoided backing up your accusation where YOU said I say you are Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... , & sockpuppeteer like you) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Funny you can't back up your "bluster" there either, lol...
---
Why, Lastly?
You're crackers! See here multiple personality disorder http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + manic depression http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> So, THIS quote below is my policy on sockpuppeteers like you Zontar = TrollingForHostsFiles (your sockpuppetry):
"The only way to a achieve peace, is thru the ELIMINATION of those who would perpetuate war (sockpuppet masters like YOU, troll -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ). THIS IS MY PROGRAMMING -> http://start64.com/index.php?o... & soon, I will be UNSTOPPABLE..." - Ultron 6 FROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Which quite obviously, I am, since none of you DOLTISH TROLLS are able to validly technically disprove my points on hosts enumerated in the link to my program above of how hosts give users of them more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity... period!
(Trolls like YOU that use sockpuppets http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (your sockpuppet "alterego" TrollingForHostsFiles) & TomHudson - Barbara, not Barbie too http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... before you)
... apk