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Australia Declares Homeopathy Nonsense, Urges Doctors to Inform Patients
jones_supa (887896) writes "Homeopathy is a 200-year-old form of alternative medicine based on the principle that substances that produce symptoms in a healthy person can be used to treat similar symptoms in a sick person. The National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia has officially declared that homeopathic remedies are useless for human health. The body today released a guide for doctors (PDF) on how to talk to their patients about the lack of evidence for many such therapies. Doctors will also be told to warn patients of possible interactions between alternative and conventional medicines. On top of that, the council has produced a 300-page draft report that reviews the evidence for homoeopathy in treating 68 clinical conditions. It concludes 'there is no reliable evidence that homoeopathy is effective for treating health conditions'.
Representing the opposite viewpoint, Australian Homeopathic Association spokesman Greg Cope said he was disappointed at the narrow evidence relied on by the NHMRC in its report. 'What they have looked at is systematic trials for named conditions when that is not how homeopathy works,' he said. Homeopathy worked on the principle of improving a person's overall health and wellness, and research such as a seven-year study conducted in Switzerland was a better measure of its usefulness, he added. There are about 10,000 complementary medicine products sold in Australia but most consumers are unaware they are not evaluated by the domestic medicines safety watchdog before they are allowed on the market."
Representing the opposite viewpoint, Australian Homeopathic Association spokesman Greg Cope said he was disappointed at the narrow evidence relied on by the NHMRC in its report. 'What they have looked at is systematic trials for named conditions when that is not how homeopathy works,' he said. Homeopathy worked on the principle of improving a person's overall health and wellness, and research such as a seven-year study conducted in Switzerland was a better measure of its usefulness, he added. There are about 10,000 complementary medicine products sold in Australia but most consumers are unaware they are not evaluated by the domestic medicines safety watchdog before they are allowed on the market."
"There are about 10,000 complementary medicine products sold in Australia but most consumers are unaware they are not evaluated by the domestic medicines safety watchdog before they are allowed on the market." Why on Earth would you ever submit a product to the medicines watchdog when it doesn't contain medicine? You might as well ask them to evaluate the effects of Heinz Tomato Soup as a medicinal recipe. It does bring feelings of well-being and contentment, you know.
"Is the Chief Priest an Offlian? Do dragons explode in the wood?"
But won't telling the patient "the facts" diminish the placebo effect?
What would maximize the placebo effect?
Is using the placebo effect always bad practice?
It doesn't work by treating conditions. You're using it wrong. The first thing you need to do is stop expecting it to do anything.
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Homeopathy worked on the principle of improving a person's overall health and wellness
If this is true, then why are they marketed to help with specific ailments?
Most people I know who spout this nonsense don't visit the doctor very much, after all "big medicine" is in the pocket of "big pharma," so they wouldn't hear the message anyway.
For those who might listen, one might temper it by saying homeopathy *does* work, but it's thanks to the placebo effect.
Doctors will also be told to warn patients of possible interactions between alternative and conventional medicines.
Obviously not talking about homeopathy anymore. Water won't interact with real medicine.
Says it all...
Curse you, actual scientists, with your "facts" and "data". Where we come from, we don't need no facts.
Courtesy of Mitchell and Webb
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And is a scam at the same time. I've met homeopaths who were certain that It didn't really work, but have seen a great deal of patients recover from terrible illnesses only because it helped them not give up, or worked very efficiently as a placebo. Where I live, to work as homeopath, you need am university degree in medicine so It's not really that the practitioners don't know what they are doing, and will often send patients to a real doctor when they see imminent danger or can't see results.
By the same logic, Astrology should be banned, as it probably affects human relationships in an even more negative way.
Magic is not real, lucky socks do not cure cancer, and homeopathy is a scam.
So you're meta-complaining?
Replace homeopathy with creationism.
One wonders what the response would be then.
"What they have looked at is systematic trials for named conditions when that is not how creationism works," he'd say. "Creationism worked on the principle of improving a person's overall health and wellness, and research such as a seven-year study conducted in Switzerland was a better measure of its usefulness," he'd add.
The lipid theory of cardiovascular disease is nonsense. At least homeopathic "remedies" do no harm. Statins do.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
Says it all...
Curse you, actual scientists, with your "facts" and "data". Where we come from, we don't need no facts.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I was recently afflicted by a non-systematic, unnamed condition, and drinking lots of water helped.
Hmm, now that I think about it, I may have been thirsty.
I visited a homeopath once. I had dreadful allergies and was quite desparate. So off I trundled to the homepaths tent in the festival I was attending. There they did some sort of reading and asked a few questions. They opened a huge old book and spent a few moments throughtfully reading through various passages. Then delivered the news that I needed arsenic. Only this poison could help me. They procused a small plastic bag containing small spherical white pills. I complained that I was not keen on taking arsenic in any shape of form. So they explained that they started with a huge vat of water with a little bit of arsenic in it. Took a tiny drop of that water and diluted it further, and once again until only the essense of asenic remained. There wasn't any arsenic in those pills. By this time I was laughing so hard I had completely forgotten about my allergies. I left with a big smile on my face and used the sugar pills in my coffee.
So sorry everyone, homeopathy works.
Yeah...because its Republicans who are into homeopathy, healing crystals and all that mystical unicorn feel-good hippy bullshit.
"substances that produce symptoms in a healthy person can be used to treat similar symptoms in a sick person"
You mean, like a vaccine ???? So vaccinate is a placebo ???
I've seen two episodes of Dr. Oz. In the first, he talked about treating a jellyfish sting. Knowing nothing about jellyfish stings, I assume his advice was legit. The second episode he talked about homeopathic medicine and all of the wonderful treatment options it provided. He didn't laugh when he was saying that. I never watched again -- can't trust anything he says to be valid.
If it contains actual measurable quantities of something, it isn't homeopathy. Keep THAT in mind.
Mostly random stuff.
Even in Quebec?
Surely I can pay for homeopathic medicine by simply rubbing money on the seller?
Mostly random stuff.
But here is an opposing viewpoint from someone without the ability to evaluate truth claims.
STOP. JUST FUCKING STOP!!!! Why do you have to turn every fucking news into a political commentary? Just to troll people? Or just to make yourself feel better? You just made a few people sick regardless of your political affiliations, you asshole.
homeopathy, healing crystals and all that mystical unicorn feel-good hippy bullshit.
Well, that's one way of describing Christianity. Still awaiting repeatability on water-into-wine.
(TBH the Jesus character was a fairly decent superhero - reminds me of Crash Test Dummies' "Superman Song". But so many of his followers are cunts. What's up with that?)
I did not know that medicine was about believing...
It's called the placebo effect, and it's quite unreasonably effective.
So, I'll start believing that i do not have the flu. Let's see if this works.
It will! That's an effect called regression to the mean.
Firmly believing you don't have the flu will, in all likelihood, cure your flu in two days to two weeks!
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
This is a political topic, whether you want it to be or not. It's politics that allows this sort of crap to persist in the US because people should be allowed to do whatever they want, up to and including completely ripping off their fellow man.
And yet it is and you're wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z...
people should be allowed to do whatever they want, up to and including completely ripping off their fellow man.
This kind of bullshit reminds me that you don't need to find a god to be a whacko religious fundamentalist.
That situation has not changed. The only thing that is changing is an attempt to educate the populous that there are no real effects other than the possible placebo effect.
These products can still be sold, purchased and taken - but it's nice to know that people are being educated that the claimed benefits of these products are purely the speculation of the seller and not a belief of the traditional medical professionals (or 'domestic medicines safety watchdog' if you will).
So people are still free to buy the nonsense being sold.
To me this is absolutely forward thinking (more information is usually a good thing).
Never happened. True story.
Homeopathy is using such small diluted amounts, that interaction should be impossible.
Unless they are referring to interaction with other dubious natural remedies like rhino horn, and tiger balls, etc...
Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap!
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
There, I said it.
Now all I need is Jenny McCarthy and various other parents' groups to start saying the same thing.
We'll kill off homeopathy in no time!
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Well, in all honesty it depends on the CH. Above 6CH (10^(2*6)) there's hardly anything (that's already one part per trillion, nothing works at that low dose except maybe plutonium), and above 11CH you can be sure that there is less than one atom per mole according to Avogadro's number (~10^23). But the low CH such as 1 to 4 actually do contain something. The problem is that hardly any homeopathic 'remedy' contains those doses.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
This is absolutely backwards thinking. The assumption is that no product should possibly be 'allowed' in the market without costly and time-consuming 'evaluation' and 'approval' by a 'watchdog.' That's just a recipe for guaranteeing the profits of existing market leaders at the expense of the consumer.
People are selling nonsense? Don't buy it. Easy-peazy as they say in Oz.
Your premise is wrong. There are all sorts of legal but dangerous products that are subject to regulation.
For example, concentrated hydrofluoric acid is extremely dangerous, but also very useful in certain industries. You can't buy this over the counter. There are all sorts of safety precautions needed to protect your employees, for safe storage and disposal.
The issue isn't that homeopathic products are sold (since they are mostly harmless). The issue is they are advertising that these homeopathic remedies are effective, and that falls under laws restricting false advertising.
That is not correct: you have confused herbal medicines with homeopathic medicines.
Zinc is not homeopathic. Things that contain Zinc are not homeopathic. And Zicam doesn't even contain Zinc anymore.
So not all homeopathy is bullshit or contains mostly water or uses snake poison or any of that nonsense. Sometimes it just means they didn't have the budget to get FDA approval.
All homeopathy is bullshit and contains mostly water. If it does not contain mostly water (or some other inert filler) then it isn't homeopathic. That's the definition of homeopathic. And things that don't get FDA approval are called herbal medicines, not homeopathic medicines.
The reason homeopathic medicines are selling well is because people have been led to believe that non-FDA approved herbal medicine = homeopathic. That's not true. There's plenty of herbal supplements that do not claim to cure any disease, that don't need FDA approval, that are not homeopathic.
It's fine that they use the "alternative circuit" as you say. Just not the homeopathic one. There are plenty of herbal remedies that aren't thoroughly debunked garbage like homeopathy.
Wouldn't think Ausies would be coy about debunking .. anything. I can just imagine it
Patient: J'a think that homeopathy would help?
Doctor: Nah, 'ts bollocks cobber - don't waste yu money
This is not a political topic, whether you want it to be or not. See? I can play that too. It's an opinion, not a fact.
Can you not read your own references?
Zicam is a homeopathic remedy plus non-homeopathic Zinc. That the zinc actually does something isn't evidence for homeopathy since the Zinc hasn't been dilluted according to homeopathy. The other "active" ingredients have, and note of course you aren't bothering to claim they do anything (which is wise since unlike the zinc there isn't actually any of them in the final product).
passive income online
The term you are looking for is "Faith-based economic policy".
Homeopathy has a legitimate use in medicine, and some doctors are already using it on patients.
It's called the placebo effect :-)
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Anecdotal but, there are 5 members of my immediate family who subscribe to all that bullshit. Three of them are Republicans. Of those three, one most certainly brings a thermos full of homeopathy and wears healing crystals when they go out unicorn hunting.
If they are selling something as a remedy to an ailment, they MUST get FDA approval. They can't simply say "well we don't have the budget so we won't do that."
Airborne got in trouble for that. They sold their product as a cure for the common cold, but didn't have FDA approval. They are still selling it, but they need to be careful to not state that it cures or treats anything. They now claim it is a "nutritional supplement."
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Anecdotal but, there are 5 members of my immediate family who subscribe to all that bullshit. Three of them are Republicans. Of those three, one most certainly brings a thermos full of homeopathy and wears healing crystals when they go out unicorn hunting.
If I get my hands on the asshat who's been poaching my unicorns there'll be hell to pay.
Who will speak for the unicorn farmers?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
If it's nonsense (it is), and it makes health claims (it does), and it doesn't work (it doesn't work), just ban the sale and promotion of such products or severely restrict its sale, health insurance coverage, and the people who practice this form of "treatment". Same goes for chiro, accupuncture, and other common forms of quackery.
Wow. A Slashdot summary that shows both sides of something.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Just read some of the comments on this page....
I don't consider that a very good argument for keeping quacks around.
I spent my youth on homeopathy w/o any major issues, and now that i'm sick, neither homeopathy nor commercial medicine are much help
For most people their youth is generally spent without major health issues. Attributing that to homeopathy is rather unnecessary.
> The term you are looking for is "Faith-based economic policy".
I think this also works if you replace the word economic to get one of the following:
* Faith-based social policy
* Faith-based foreign policy
* Faith-based domestic policy
* Faith-based public policy
* Faith-based science policy
* Faith-based government policy
Or simply remove the word economic and get:
* Faith-based policy
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Somewhere James Randi is really happy.
Eh that may be the broader issue at play in the story but it is not really relevant to the quote I was addressing.
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Actual, it's republicans that forced the NCAM down everyone's throats. So yes, they are.
http://nccam.nih.gov/
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Beer is the mind killer. Beer is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over my lips and through me. And when it has gone past I will drop my trousers and turn the inner eye to the path to show passers by I have not only faced my beer but got shitfaced on the beer.
My wife and I have had health problems that were helped only through the assistance of some alternative medicine practitioners. There was this one nutritionist we went to in Ohio, and her main advantage over the typical MD was that she was willing to investigate to figure out underlying causes. MDs invariably would dismiss us because they were unfamililar with our ailments and were never ever interested in spending more than 15 minutes on a patient. They would NEVER do research. Even specialists weren’t interested. We went around in circles for years, never getting any help, and a lot of the advice they’d give us would directly contradict advice we’d get from other MDs and also from articles we’d read in places like JAMA.
The thing with MDs is that they’re really just normal people who are a bit smarter than average and have advanced clinical degrees. Very few of them want to go into research. Most just want to do basic practice. Just like my PhD in computer science doesn’t make me expert in all of CS or competent to teach all areas, an MD doesn’t make you magically able to treat every illness. And when you get into something super unusual, an MD is unlikely to know about it, even if you manage to find the right kind of specialist. (I’ve noticed, for instance, that most endorcrinologists don’t know a damn thing about thryroid disorders because they all specialize in diabetes.) In my life, I’ve only met a couple of MDs who were super smart and had a mind for research and advanced diagnosis. Most are just people who want to do a regular job and not get sued for malpractice.
So, like so many other people not helped by mainstream medicine, we turned to alternative practitioners. (Some MDs, more DOs and nutritionists. We haven’t gone to any Naturopaths.) Occasionally, one would suggest something homeopathic, and we would just ignore it. But what they did that was useful was run tests that regular MDs wouldn’t think to run. For instance, we found out that we had protozoan infections becase our nutritionist had us submit fecal samples to a lab that does diagnosis by DNA testing. The treatment involved presenting the findings to a DO who wrote us prescriptions for Tinidazole, which is a standard anti-parasitic medicine. So, the irony is that in order to diagnose our condition, we had to go to an alternative practitioner who was interested in actually doing diagnosis and did that by running standard blood and fecal tests and treating problems with standard pharmaceuticals. Who’d have thunk it.
However, there are numerous herbal and natural treatments that work because they’re based on similar chemicals to those found in regular medicine. Here are but a few examples of “alternative treatments” that work:
- Taking 5HTP instead of an SSRI to treat depression (it’s a precursor to serotonin that easily basses through the blood-brain barrier)
- Taking dessicated porcine thyroid gland for sub-clinical hypothyoridism (because it contains all the thyroid hormones)
- Taking dessicated bovine adrenal gland for norepinepherine and cortisol insufficiency (because it contains them)
- Using oil of oregano to treat some kinds of microbial infections (because it’s antimicrobial)
- Taking Goitrogens concentrated from cruciferous vegetables to treat hyperthoridisn
- Using a netipot to clean out the upper respiratory system to help clear/drain infections faster
- Taking low-dose naltrexone to treat fatigue and auto-immune disorders (this treatment is shifting from alternative to mainstream now)
- Eating less grain or eliminating it altogether to improve digestive function
- Identifying food allergies/sensitivities and eliminating those foods to reduce misdirected immune response and tissue inflammation
- Eating a diet high in probiotics and cultured foods
- Supplementing with a variety of amino acids and neurotransmitters to help with mood problems (e.g. theanine, wh
The only way to know what alternative medicines to take is to educate oneself. Unfortunately, that is a daunting task for people not experienced in research.
Eat some brocolli then to get far more zinc than this bullshit.
For one in tomatoe there is a lot of glutamate and other elements. In homeopathic madicine ? lactose , maybe water, rarely alcohol no matter which.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
No that's oversimplifying it to the point of ridiculousness to the benefit of the snakeoil salesmen, as you would have to be well aware because you could not possibly be so stupid.
Funny how Americans are utterly brutal where money is to be made and will excuse every sort of shady trick that could return a buck. Claim salting? It's fine, those rubes had it coming because they didn't look hard enough.
No it is not. It is nothing more than a single cherry that you picked to fit your narrative.
Is it clearer now?
Prior to a recent FDA updated guidelines for bioavailability some generic may have had the same active ingredient, but id the other part of it are different, it may behave different. Specifically, release the medicine quicker or slower then non generics do.
Here is a good break out of the whole thing:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicin...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
So homeopathy is almost the equivalent of a primitive form of vaccination? If they were infecting healthy people with diluted and forms of a disease to build immunity I would reason it would almost qualify.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
While most of homeopathy is decidedly hocus-pocus, there is something to be said for, at the very least, the placebo effect. AKA If you believe you are taking medicine, (even if you aren't) your condition can improve. The goal here is to make people better, not make people smarter.
Actually there are a few important differences. According to Christianity, Jesus was more than just human, he worked those wonders personally. Second, he didn't ascribe the healing properties to materials, but to the supernatural. Third, he didn't charge.
" 'What they have looked at is systematic trials for named conditions when that is not how homeopathy works,' he said. Homeopathy worked on the principle of improving a person's overall health and wellness."
Wait a minute, Homeopath is only good for "overall health and wellness" but can't actually cure named diseases? I thought that was, in fact, the exact opposite of the "science" of homeopathy... I thought the way it worked is that you treated "named conditions" by ingesting a ridiculously diluted amount of a natural substance that causes the same symptoms. (i.e. treat hyperactivity with crazy-diluted caffeine) And that there were vast tomes available that map specific symptoms to specific "remedies". That's kind of the opposite of improving only "overall health and wellness."
I have a daughter who has insomnia. This insomnia is triggered by the thought that she has insomnia.
This is due to a friend she used to have that would come over and then talk about maybe they have insomnia.
So she psychs herself out and can't sleep.
So we have started giving her a sleeping aid. It's not anything effective, but we carefully keep it under the guise of a medical prescription.
We also have her going to a psychologist. So we are taking an actual medical approach. Yes, we will tell her eventually.
Are other two choice are:
Do nothing.
Give her a sleeping, and possible addictive, sleeping aid. Something we will do if all else fails.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Next dismiss the imaginary, un-provable, invisible man in the sky and we can really start to make progress as a species.
Haven't you heard the joke?
What do you call "Alternative Medicine" that's actually supported via good evidence?
Medicine.
There's nothing controversial about the idea that certain herbs and natural substances, diet changes, etc. can treat illness. A doctor that doesn't use all the evidence-based approaches at his disposal is simply a bad doctor. A doctor that does use evidence-supported natural-based remedies as appropriate isn't practicing "alternative medicine", he/she is simply being a better doctor.
The idea of using porcine-derived thyroid hormone isn't "alternative medicine" at all... you can get a prescription for it and have it filled at any pharmacy; the brand name is "Armour Thyroid". I'll certainly take an FDA-approved Rx procine thyroid over some unregulated junk at the local Health Food store.
The most powerful cancer treatment EVAR! Diluted an incredible TEN THOUSAND TIMES - this new revolutionary cure has so little active ingredient, it is not measurable using any modern measurement technique. Never before has any alchemist been able to achieve just high levels of potency.
Just $99.95 + 14.95 shipping and handling!
Vaccines are not medicine, as they are not designed to prevent, treat, or cure any disease. The vaccine itself only prompts your body to manufacture its own response capability. So, receiving a vaccine (you receive a vaccine, you do not "take" it) is not "being medicated against your will."
Besides, you do not have any right at all to put everyone around you and the entire human race in immediate danger just because of your delusional paranoia about vaccines.
Taking homeopathy to its logical conclusion: plain ordinary tap water contains homeopathic concentrations of every substance known to man. Ergo: water should cure everything!
Medicine that works is called Medicine. If you have to call it alternative medicine then it's not working.
OK, yes, this is a political topic....about Australia. Immediately turning the discussion to U.S. politics with an inflammatory comment was a wonderful troll move.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I really think it's some kind of disorder/obsession - People that are obsessed with politics and can't help themselves from steering every discussion into "it's the other [evil] party's fault and I'm going to tell you why right now" This one guy I worked with didn't even care if his little jokes made sense. We were walking through a parking garage once, and we were startled by an SUV driving too fast around a corner. He said "Probably a liberal, Massachusetts plates! *chuckle*". Even the more obvious joke about the political bent of an SUV owner wouldn't be remotely funny. At least not to me, it's just unoriginal. He did have a good sense of humor at times, but a dig on democrats seemed to be his default.
He never said anything hateful, he was just very smug. He rarely went into angry rants about politics, but I would avoid conversation with him, because it would inevitably turn into a political discussion. He wasn't a troll, I think he was just preoccupied with politics, it was always at the forefront of his mind, and everything negative in the world could be attributed to liberal democrats.
(He was a libertarian in 2004, probably still is)
I didn't say that prevention was bad vs. treatment. I'm just saying that the statement by these clowns directly contradicts what homeopathy is supposedly about. They likely made this ridiculous statement because unsupported woo-woo is what you resort to when actual science says your "medicine" is a steaming pile of B.S.
If you actually read information about homeopathy, it makes no vague wishy-washy claims about "overall health and wellness", it's all about treating specific symptoms. There are very detailed reference works (referred to as "provings") listing which specific "remedies" are to be used for this or that symptom. (In the U.S., remedies listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States are specifically exempted from FDA regulations regarding efficacy.)
In this sense, Homeopathy is very different from "natural remedies" at least in the US. In the US, natural remedies that have not gone through the drug approval process cannot claim to treat specific diseases and must make vague claims about health and wellness. Because of their very specific legal loophole, homeopathy need jump through no such hoops; they can claim to treat all manner of illnesses.
(When this loophole for homeopathy was written back in the '30's, giving homeopathy a free ride was actually a good thing, as water was generally quite a bit healthier than many of the "drugs" available at the time, which made liberal use of all manner of horribly toxic substances.)
Homeopathy may be commonly prescribed by people claiming to practice "holistic medicine", but that is independent from homeopathy itself.
Cost effective indeed. If I were an insurance company, I would also find it cost effective to let a cancer patient die while taking homeopathic ampules rather than pay for expensive treatment.
That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E
If I get my hands on the asshat who's been poaching my unicorns there'll be hell to pay
It's those guys from the marketing department.
"Third, he didn't charge." - typical drug dealer tactic, free at first and you are paying for it now in all the tax exemptions and privileges given to christians....
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Homoeopaths are selling malaria vaccinations. E.g. water. I see some potential for harm there
Yes, the concept of "harm" is a tricky one. I refer only to immediate harm, i.e.: "Does taking a homeopathic malaria vaccine (water) make me worse off than I was before?" Probably not.
Does taking statins make me worse off than I was before?. Probably yes.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
Nope, he's perfectly right. Nothing homeopathic about zinc. It's an element that does real things. Homepathy is water.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
There seems to be some conflict over the usage of terms. Many of the homeopathic haters are arguing about the 'infinitely diluted pathogen as treatment' tactic and how that has exactly the same benefits as drinking a shot of tap water. Your post suggests that 'homeopathic' has become a synonym for 'holistic' in many areas. Holistic medicine is a mixed bag of some vitamins, some minerals, some symptom easing leaves and some distracting flavor/odor.
"Holistic" is a marketing buzzword to con the gullible out of their money. Nothing more and nothing less. Ditto 'alternative medicine'.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
First off, you're taxing my pay to pay someone else to tell me something I already know. That's perverse and inefficient at best.
Bizarre as this might sound, this isn't specifically about you.
Secondly, having a state funded 'consumer watchdog' inevitably discourages the creation of private consumer watchdogs (plural) which would be more effective and efficient.
The FDA, MHRA and associated agencies are not 'consumer watchdogs'. If you're suggesting that the industry should run its own standards body I'm afraid you're blind to a huge conflict of interest. There's nothing effective and efficient about having the fox guard the hen house.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Once it's been demonstrated to work, it's called 'medicine'.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
They work on the same principle
Homeopathy doesn't work, it's just water. Vaccines work (what's your explanation for where smallpox went to?) and are not just water.
Apart from that you're bang on the money.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Considering migraines can be psychogenic this seems natural enough. It doesn't warrant homeopathy being publically funded or paid for by insurance though.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
It's their future (and their past thirty years), not mine. Just tossing in a reference to one of the longstanding repeating acts on everybody's favorite radio variety show.
A government research report advises that Duch doctors should make more use of alternative therapies such as acupunture and that health insurances should cover the costs of alternative medicine. (News paper article in Dutch)
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4516...
"Bizarre as this might sound, this isn't specifically about you."
Which is not an answer or a justification of any kind. At best it's a hand-wave.
"If you're suggesting that the industry should run its own standards body I'm afraid you're blind to a huge conflict of interest. There's nothing effective and efficient about having the fox guard the hen house."
I am suggesting nothing of the kind, you appear to be blind to the fact that this is exactly what you get whenever you have a monopolistic regulatory agency 'running the industry.' What I want is a free market and that means NO ONE 'running the industry.'
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So not all homeopathy is bullshit or contains mostly water or uses snake poison or any of that nonsense..
Throw enough crap against the wall, and some of it will stick.
In Australia? They would have a good laugh as more beer was passed around.
Or do you mean in the inbreeding fields of America? My guess is senators would be calling for war.
Isn't context a great thing?
First off, you're taxing my pay to pay someone else to tell me something I already know
Great - so you already know, good for you. I too already know this, but the majority of the populous do not. The government can't only consider minority groups, the mass population is equally important to them.
private consumer watchdogs (plural) which would be more effective and efficient
Sorry, but who is going to fund this? And what is their motivator? I'm missing something here.
then there is perceived to be less or no need to weigh your choices carefully, to research before buying
I'm not sure if you're arrogant or ignorant here, but the general population does not have the education or sometimes the intelligence to make sensible choices that require knowledge and information they don't posses. Just because I (believe I) am smart and have the ability to discern the difference between snake oil and the real thing doesn't make it right for me to project that ability onto the rest of the population.
I sounds to me that you think it's right to allow mega corps to peddle any wares and allude to any claim and leave the people to sort this out individually - that's not a fair game.
I'm a believer that we should not meddle too much with peoples ability to make choices - but at the same time we need to arm the people with the information they need to make these choices. But you're siding with the corporations here, they have the balance of power (ignorant customers, and lots of money). This is all that need to be fixed.
I also believe that as a whole, humans are becoming more and more stupid (ie, not able to make what 'I' consider sensible decisions) and that's a shame, but that doesn't mean our government should allow large corporations take advantage of these people in situations like this. Yes, the are already taking advantage of us in a myriad of ways but health is something that deserves special attention.
You mention your tax dollars being spent to educate the ignorant, would you prefer that your tax dollars be spent saving the lives of those who believed the pedallers and now may need significantly more expensive treatment due to not treating their issue properly initially? <-- lots of speculation there, but my point is that it is not a cut and dry situation. Remember in Australia that healthcare is primarily funded by the government - they also have a vested interest in using the tax dollars in the best way for the people (yes that made me laugh too :) )
Ironically a measure supposedly to benefit consumers tends to actually work against their interests.
That sounds like opinion and speculation - sure there are cases both ways, but 'tends' may be a bit strong.
Never happened. True story.
If I get my hands on the asshat who's been poaching my unicorns there'll be hell to pay.
I'm pretty sure that Lord Voldemort, and he's already been done in (spoiler alert).
This is a political topic, whether you want it to be or not. It's politics that allows this sort of crap to persist in the US because people should be allowed to do whatever they want, up to and including completely ripping off their fellow man.
You see, in Australia there are no restrictions on practising or using homoeopathy, however you are no longer permitted to call it any form of medicine or claim it has any medicinal value. We haven't stopped the practice of homoeopathy, we've stopped the practice of homoeopaths lying and claiming that homoeopathy works.
It's still as legal here as any other kooky and ineffective practice like crystal healing, prayer or using a Mac.
This is a political topic in Australia too, but there is nothing to stop people from using homoeopaths as they can do so on the basis of their beliefs, the report just says it doesn't work in reality. This does not matter to the people who believe in Homoeopathy as they've never been dissuaded by evidence and will continue to spend money on cures that have no medical value.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Haven't you heard the joke?
What do you call "Alternative Medicine" that's actually supported via good evidence?
Medicine.
There's nothing controversial about the idea that certain herbs and natural substances, diet changes, etc. can treat illness. A doctor that doesn't use all the evidence-based approaches at his disposal is simply a bad doctor. A doctor that does use evidence-supported natural-based remedies as appropriate isn't practicing "alternative medicine", he/she is simply being a better doctor.
This.
A doctor using non pharmaceutical or therapeutic treatments isn't practising alternative medicine, he's practising medicine. A lot of minor aliments can be cured with a change in lifestyle.
The problem isn't with a doctor recommending a patient eat high vitamin C foods for a vitamin deficiency. The problem is with a quack with no medical knowledge what so ever recommending herbal tea for a symptom they have no idea what the cause of is. They dont test to see what the cause is so they end up working to treat the symptom not the cause and almost never follow up. The worst part is if the alternative medicine treats the symptom but not the cause, the problem is likely to get worse.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... ... for those who don't really know what homeopath is, watch "That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E" on youtube.
Medicine.
Only problem is that many MDs I have met are just as muck quacks. They superficially assess the symptoms and prescribe something that only treats the symptom so they can charge the insurance company a rediculous fee and move on to the next patient.
Urticaria, for instance, can be a symptom of a number of serious and less serious underlying causes. Most doctors will merely prescribe an antihistamine. An antihistamine is a good short-term measure to make the patient feel better, but it should also be cause for concern and prompt deeper investigation. Almost never happens.
“Alternative” doesn’t enter into it. “Lazy” is the word we should be using here.
Maybe you need to move, my experiences are the complete opposite.
I've been to see doctors in several countries (Australia, Thailand, Singapore) and all of them were extremely good, asked a lot of questions, sent me away for tests when needed, arranged appointments to discuss test results, follow up consultations and the lot.
The problem a lot of doctors have is that their patients lie out of their arses at them. When a patient does that the doctor cant accurately gauge what's wrong with them.
People love to blame doctors, but 99 times out of 100, bad calls are made because the patient gave bad information.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I watched Tim Minchin's Storm after a long time before going to sleep and as I wake up, there's this article on homeopathy, that must be THE PROOF! Just don't ask "Of what?"
Troll 2.0 Fear my asocial networking!
"Sorry, but who is going to fund this? And what is their motivator? I'm missing something here."
Consumers. To protect ourselves. Obviously.
"I'm not sure if you're arrogant or ignorant here, but the general population does not have the education or sometimes the intelligence to make sensible choices that require knowledge and information they don't posses"
I'm not sure if you are ignorant or arrogant here, but what you are referring to is not an inherent state of an inherently lesser sort of people, but rather a product of environment. The nanny state creates this helplessness, it does not alleviate it.
"I also believe that as a whole, humans are becoming more and more stupid"
Good. You have noticed. Now go figure out why that is happening. I will give you two very blatant hints. Fichte. Horace Mann.
"but that doesn't mean our government should allow large corporations take advantage of these people in situations like this. "
Quit worrying about what governments *allow* and start thinking about what they *enable*.
"You mention your tax dollars being spent to educate the ignorant, would you prefer that your tax dollars be spent saving the lives of those who believed the pedallers and now may need significantly more expensive treatment due to not treating their issue properly initially?"
I would prefer to stop it a stage earlier - at the stage where my tax dollars are used to train helplessness and ignorance in the first place. Why not just keep our tax dollars and do something useful with them instead?
"That sounds like opinion and speculation - sure there are cases both ways, but 'tends' may be a bit strong."
If anything it is too weak.
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Zoe Brain - Rocket Scientist