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Student Records Kids Who Bully Him, Then Gets Threatened With Wiretapping Charge
An anonymous reader tips news of an incident in a Pennsylvania high school in which a student, Christian Stanfield, was being bullied on a regular basis. He used a tablet to make an audio recording of the bullies for the purpose of showing his mother how bad it was. She was shocked, and she called school officials to tell them what was going on. The officials brought in a police lieutenant — but not to deal with the bullies. Instead, the officer interrogated Stanfield and made him delete the recording. The officer then threatened to charge him with felony wiretapping. The charges were later reduced to disorderly conduct, and Stanfield was forced to testify before a magistrate, who found him guilty. Stanfield's mother said, "Christian's willingness to advocate in a non-violent manner should be championed as a turning point. If Mr. Milburn and the South Fayette school district really want to do the right thing, they would recognized that their zero-tolerance policies and overemphasis on academics and athletics have practically eliminated social and emotional functioning from school culture."
Update: 04/17 04:36 GMT by T : The attention this case has gotten may have something to do with the later-announced decision by the Allegheny County District Attorney's office to withdraw the charges against Stanfield.
Update: 04/17 04:36 GMT by T : The attention this case has gotten may have something to do with the later-announced decision by the Allegheny County District Attorney's office to withdraw the charges against Stanfield.
This is why people don't like going to the authorities...
Not only was his problem not taken care of, but he was actually punished for trying to protect himself non-violently!
Fucking ignorant fucks!
I usually don't feel this way, but as a person who was endlessly bullied, I hope they eat a bag of diseased dicks.
Another person who will be afraid of authority.
And, what if this kid commits a Columbine-esque revenge scenario? They'll blame it on some other bullshit, not their own lack of souls...
FUCK!
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
Ordinary citizens face felony convictions for this while the feds do something similar and are combatting terromism to keep us safe.
So, kid gathers evidence of bullying by other kids, gets charged?
That is insane.
So, if I take a video of someone stealing my car, would I get arrested? Under what circumstances could I do that and not be charged? WTF doesn't gathering evidence of bullying get an exemption from wiretap laws?
Whatever law enforcement and officers of the court were involved in this are total morons. This makes no sense at all.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Judging by how past actions of Pennsylvania HS football players were judged, this is not surprising. Compared to letting them get away with rape, this is downright reasonable.
What did his mother expect from the school as a reaction? Siding with the victim of bullying? Seriously? Allow me to give you a brief rundown of how school deal with bullying.
What a school wants is "peace". They want pupils to shut up and not cause a problem. Especially not a disciplinary one. So how do they deal with bullying? Well, easy: Not at all. Because it is not a school's problem. The bully has his victim, is satisfied and will not cause any other problem towards the school, its property or its faculty. The victim is being pushed and punched.
Now when does the school run into a problem in this scenario? Right. When the victim does not want to play his role anymore. That is when the school runs into a problem. Because now they have to do something. Until that moment, there was no reason for a reaction. A pacified bully is no problem, and a victim that lets the bully kick him is none either. The very LAST thing the school wants is to be forced to take action against the bully. Because then not only does it draw attention to the bullying problem, it puts a very unhappy bully at their hands, someone who knows how to cause trouble if he wants to, who may or may not be even supported in his actions by his parents.
The school's reaction is a logical one: The victim upset the apple cart. He created a problem for the school. What the school wants is him to shut the fuck up again and swallow the punches.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A police officer makes him delete his recording, he then gets in trouble for the recording, then he was forced to testify and then was found guilty, and through all of that no one thought to ask the what the fuck they were doing. The problem with this is if he went to the principal and said they were bullying him he would have passed it off like nothing ever happened. You are told in school to tell an adult when something happens and when you do they don't ever do anything about it, but when the kid gets proof that he is being bullied he gets in trouble and they don't get punished at all(and they probably beat him up for telling on them). And everyone involved just says they were only doing their job.
The probably is Pennsylvania is an all-party state, where most states only require the consent of one party to record.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Assuming this kid doesn't get his tablet smashed as the very next level of bullying...
He needs to record the bullying again, but this time, the recording needs to go directly to all local media outlets, and perhaps directly to social media as well. This may not make much difference to the bullies on the bus, but it's a lot harder for the bullies in the school administration or police department to bury.
It is still possible to shame entrenched bullies out of positions of authority. It doesn't often happen, but it's worth a try. It's certainly a Noble Cause.
Here's an interesting article that looks at the legal aspects of this case:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
tl;dr version: The charges are bullshit.
Tampering with evidence, intimidating a witness, and dereliction of duty. Under no circumstances should he have ordered the child to delete the recording. If there was a felony charge to be made, it was his duty to make it. Ordering and then overseeing the destruction of evidence to that effect is actionable.
I'm sure I speak for a few slashdotters when I say, I copped it at school too.
The few times teachers got involved, I was apparently doing the wrong thing, not the person picking on me. As far as I'm concerned, if there's one thing I could change about my childhood - it would be the balls to stand up for myself and at least settle on a point in the pecking order. The few times I did stand up for myself, while incredibly scary for me - worked out in the end. The people involved generally left me alone after that.
This is instinctual bullshit, bullies themselves are often more messed up than the people they intimidate, normally stuff from parents, older brothers or god knows what, bad homes, drugs, alcohol, abuse - etc. None the less playground bullying and intimidation is simply alpha dominance rubbish but it's also part of life and nature. The last person who is going to help properly with this is a teacher unfortunately.
I was assaulted once by a kid twice my size in middle school. He was harassing a group of 5 girls, taking their bags and throwing them on the ground. I asked him, "Why are you being such an asshole? Why don't you just leave them alone?" He punched me in the back of the head when I turned to walk away, then took about 12 swings at my face while sitting on top of me. I never hit him at all, just deflected most of his attacks.
The next day, the school administrator gave both of us detention for a week. He said I shouldn't have used foul language.
I think there's a kind of deep inability on the part of adults to distinguish between rough play that got a little out of hand and a bully who's completely out of control. I can't see any school policy fixing that.
And a very strong reason why we won't be sending our child to public schools.
Do you really think that just because a school is private bullying automagically will cease to happen? Allow me to burst that bubble for you.
A private school for children of Sweden's wealthy elite has been shut down following accusations that boys were burned with hot irons by older pupils.
The latest allegations about severe bullying at Lundsberg boarding school emerged at the weekend after one of the boys was taken to hospital and the police were informed. Nine boys were involved in the assault, police said.
Following a visit to the school in rural Värmland, in south-west Sweden, inspectors announced its immediate closure until measures are taken to prevent abuse.
"I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
A couple of points about this. My first thought when I heard this was that Pennsylvania law on recording someone requires their consent except in certain circumstances; one of those circumstances is when a crime is being committed. I thought that was the case here, except the boy recorded others as well as those committing a crime (terroristic threats, at the least). However, there is another exception to Pennsylvania law, when one does not have an expectation of privacy. The judge ruled that the boy recorded people when they had an expectation of privacy. Since everything I have read indicates that all of the recordings occurred in the classroom, I have a serious problem with the idea that anyone in the recordings had an expectation of privacy.
Further, the judge claimed that she was confident that if the bullying had been reported to the school, it would have been taken care of appropriately, the the school did not tolerate bullying. How the judge could reach that conclusion is a mystery to me, considering that the incident which was recorded occurred in the presence of a teacher.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
because this is how you get school shootings. Or in Pennsylvanias recent case, school stabbings. When you strip a person of their safety, and offer them no recourse, they become hard. They become determined with nothing to lose. They adopt these horriffic scorched earth tactics because nothing you say or do is consistent or fair, so the outcome and result of their actions is no longer relevant. And the saddest part is in the aftermath.
people will wonder how they could have helped, what caused it, and why this happened. Gun nuts will bark about bullet proof blackboards and guns for teachers. Parents will entirely miss the point and call for tougher gun laws. No one will stop to consider students or kids for that matter as real people.
Good people go to bed earlier.
If you want your kid to learn to stand up for himself, would you pay a couple of other kids to beat him up until he finds the nerve to punch back, or would you send him to a self defence class? The first is likely to end in physical or psychological trauma, the second more likely to instil confidence as well as help keep potential bullies off his back.
What schools like these are doing is teaching him that his place in the hierarchy is being the classroom punching bag, and that he will be punished if he fights back or complains. Yes, life can be like that too, but only if you let it. School should be teaching him how to deal with such issues, not forcing him to suck it up.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
(assistant principal Aaron ) Skrbin testified that the district had records of Love complaining about students bullying her son, including an incident in October in which a student hit her son with “spitwads,” even after her son told him to stop.
“To be blunt, I would not classifying that as bullying,” Skrbin said.
WTF?!?!?!?
I was bullyed in high school. Swirlies/harrassment/vocal/physical. Worst 4 years of my life. I never had the courage back then to stand up, and/or tell my parents. I've since grown and now I'll stand up to random people on street harrassing a complete stranger. It's just gaining confidence, but in HS it's hard to gain that while being bullied.
But spitwads are a form of bullying, esp if requested to stop and it doesn't and it escalates. It's a way of hummiliating someone. I can't stand teachers/adults in position like this and they nothing against the bullies. no let's punish the victims. I always hoped that with the bullying issue brought more to light a few years ago, this would end, but nope teachers still blaiming the victims. It's sickening.
Here are the details of the relevant parties:
The "judge": Maureen McGraw-Desmet
295 Millers Run Road Bridgeville, PA 15017 phone: 412-221-3353 fax: 412-221-0908
The "officer": http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ro...
and then there's this piece of shit: http://www.southfayette.org/si... (smilburn@southfayette.org)
If ever there was a job for Anonymous...
The special ed kids with learning disabilities are mixed with the ones with behavioral/emotional disabilities in this school. In other words, people that get made fun of, and people that are a danger to them. Sheep and wolves. Must make the regular classrooms nice to remove both the slow learners and troublemakers.
The same thing happens in homeless shelters, where it's hard to protect the defenselessly mentally ill from the bad guys. And prisons, where a lot of mentally ill people live due to the policies of our country.
Another problem in this case is that the police and the judge are an extension of the school administration, and see themselves that way. Also, it is a small Western Pennsylvania school district surely dominated by athletics. Also, we don't know the full story. This could be the best school in the world, but I somehow doubt it.
Why wasn't a copy made before showing the authorities? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS MAKE A COPY!!!!
Not only should a copy have been made, it should have been uploaded to "the internet" as soon as possible where it could never go away.
Actually, I'm reading this article with a critical eye now, and I realize that the police never said anything about wiretapping. Only the principal did:
The defendant testified before Judge McGraw-Desmet that he was forced to play the audio for the group and then delete it.
The "group" is the principal and a police officer. So who forced him to delete it?
Mr. Milburn told me to delete it, and I just felt, like, really pressured to do it.
So the school principal made him delete it. Probably because it embarrassed the school.
The officer said, “He believed he had a wiretapping incident."
So the officer says that the principal is the one who thought he had a wiretapping incident.
Principal Milburn advised her that her son was “facing felony wiretapping charges” because he made a recording in a place with an expectation of privacy, and that Officer Kurta agreed.
The only mention about the officer is the statement that the officer agreed, and it isn't a quote from anyone.
This further indicates that it was the school trying to hide their shame:
...the administrators gave the student a Saturday detention
Probably to pressure him into thinking it was all his fault.
So what legal trouble did he actually get it?
the magistrate pronounced him guilty of disorderly conduct.
No mention as to why that was. But the "magistrate" said nothing about wiretapping.
Now, the doozy:
The officer then admitted he did not hear the audio file in question or do an investigation into the recording, presumably because the student was ordered to erase it prior to his arrival at the school.
So the officer claims he wasn't even there for the recording!
Now it sounds like the principal pressured a student into a cover-up of his own teacher's discipline failures, and destroyed evidence in an investigation! Wow, I would *love* to see the ACLU get involved in this one!
"- Pay an illegal immigrant $100 to stab the bully in the kidney."
Slashdot is no place to advocate outsourcing good American jobs to illegals and you are a bad person.
If I had been that kid, my response to the police bullying that backed up the school bullying would have been to proudly put that video out there on YouTube, with a full and factual description of the police reaction, naming names and quoting the threats. Become such an Internet hot potato that no authority is going to punish you.
I have noted the same problem in the private sector: you have a consumer problem with some large company, which has found that just ignoring your complaint generally makes it go away. After putting up with months of the runaround, you create a "United Breaks Guitars" video and send it viral. THAT gets attention, and the fix you've been looking for.
My child was harassing another kid in school. It went on for months. The other kid didn't want to go to school anymore. It was a Big Deal. Finally, the parent called me because she wasn't successful in getting the school to stop it. I called the principal and asked basically "where the hell is your anti bullying policy" and got the same response. He didn't consider it bullying. As you said, "WTF?!?!?!?!". The first I'd ever heard of this was when the other parent called me. More parents need to get involved in schools. Show up at school board meetings. Read them the riot act when they need it. Campaign against the bad ones at election time and for the good ones.
Oh, and you can bet my kid stopped that crap that day.
Is anyone else creeped out by how hopeful some of the posters here seem to be about the possibility of the kid "going Columbine"?
I get it that many slashdotters feel they were abused by bullies when they were kids, but the fact is pretty much every kid ever has been picked on (and has bullied another kid) at some time in their childhood. Yeah, it sucks, and yeah, the authorities here should absolutely be taken out of positions where they can commit future injustices like this, but in no way, shape or form should revenge fantasies like "going Columbine" be casually thrown about as if yeah, that's something reasonable.
Yeah, it sucks that some of you were horribly treated when you were young, but get the fuck over it already. If you still get overwraught to the point where you fantasize about killing people at shit that happened 10 years ago on a playground, you have problems and you need to address them.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
They are not there to protect you, never have been never will be.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Fuck that school, fuck that police department, and fuck that state.
Given that the public wants measurable results for their tax dollars, getting an easy conviction is their optimum strategy. Upsetting the parents of the bullies, who are probably high status bullies themselves, by revealing that their brats are nasty pieces of work, is not going to do the police any favours. The publicity this case has generated will do some good to this particular situation, but in general, we're stuck with this problem...
Let's do some bullying....
lfornella@southfayette.org
tburroughs@southfayette.org
wnewcomer@southfayette.org
avezzi@southfayette.org
fmorelli@southfayette.org
aczaplicki@southfayette.org
tpetrillo@southfayette.org
pbrinsky@southfayette.org
jiriti@southfayette.org
cgeisler@southfayette.org
Seriously, I think we should get a group together. Stalk and beat the crap out of the principal. When the principal tries to press charges, we'll simply have a ton of alibis. If he records, we'll press charges against him for wiretapping and demand at gun point that he delete the files.
So fuming pissed.
The kid needs a new attorney. From Pennsylvania's own site:
The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an "expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation." See 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. 5702 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter A, and then the specific provision). Therefore, you may be able to record in-person conversations occurring in a public place without consent. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private.
The recordings he made were all in the public venue. Also, while recording conversations in PA requires the consent of both parties, that is only for the purposes of meetings, phone conversations, etc. Otherwise, recording the school play or little league team would be a violation under the law in PA and it isn't. No, either the story is short on a critical fact, or a grave injustice has occurred.
And a very strong reason why we won't be sending our child to public schools.
They are not places of learning. They are prison systems for children in which the biggest bully rules.
I would not be surprised if there were a strong correlation between the freedom of bullies and test scores. Why should anyone care about school when it's absolute torture going? How can they learn when it's all about emotional and sometimes physical torture?
Meh, I went to a white-bread private school and I still got bullied. In white-bread private school, your bully's father is a multi-millionaire who gives a lot of money to the school, above and beyond tuition. Ever deal with entitled, spoiled rich kid bullies? They're a lot of fun. And you can't get the school to do anything about it because they want daddy's money. Don't kid yourself. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes and socio-economic classes. Wealth and privilege only make it worse.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Even though the recordings have been deleted, the officials can be called in and to testify what they saw. The teacher who was allegedly present in these bullying sessions can be called in to testify. Collect evidence of bullying and have the school suspended for three years. That will teach them.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
For one, Slashdot has a bunch of anti-social jerks that like to post, who have an inability to empathize with anyone else. So no surprise they think something like that is a good idea, because they they aren't very reasonable people.
However others have pointed out, accurately I think, that something like this can well be a cause for it. The thing is that if you push someone in to a corner and give them what seems to be no way out, no way to fight back, they may go nuts. Happens with other animals, not just humans. So if you have a kid that is continually picked on, who tries to stand up for themselves, but is then picked on even worse, this time by law enforcement, well then they may well take drastic measures because they feel like there's no option, no hope.
I think there is some real merit to this. Not merit as in saying it is good that kids do it, but that it is correct that actions like this can lead to kids doing it. If they feel they have nothing to lose and nowhere to turn, then a completely crazy overreaction may be the only option they feel they have.
I mean here you have a case of a kid who did everything right, and got increasingly screwed: He never fought back or defended himself, which schools do not allow (you can argue if they should, but they don't, it is against the rules). He got no help or support from the school, I mean it was allowed to happen IN CLASS in front of a teacher. He told his parents, they were skeptical, he produced evidence. He was then threatened by the police, ordered to delete it (illegally), drug to court, etc, etc. So what has he got now? He's been effectively told the bullies are allowed to do as they wish and if you attempt to stop them the police and courts will punish you.
So what's he to do? You can see how a drastic, illogical, action might be what he thinks is his only option. Remember that he doesn't have the perspective of age, he can't look on high school and say "Ya that's a real short time in your life and it gets WAY better once you are out and an adult." To him, this is his whole world. And for that matter, the adult world has stepped in and told him he;s wrong to try and make things better for himself.
As such you can see why people are saying it can lead to something like a school shooting. It is something that administrators need to consider: Dealing with bullying isn't something to do just because it is the right thing (which would be a good enough reason) but it is a safety issue as well.
The detective clearly would have preferred it if the kid had pulled out a Colt .45 and blown the offending child bully's brains out all over the wall.
The simple truth is simply too threatening to too many people. They demand laws that provide drama instead.