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Mercedes Pooh-Poohs Tesla, Says It Has "Limited Potential"

cartechboy (2660665) writes "They say you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe it should go you shouldn't trash talk the company you partner with. U.S. head of Mercedes-Benz Steve Cannon was just quoted as saying future service of Tesla's vehicles could be 'limited,' and that while it's great, the market could be more attracted to other luxury automakers once their products hit the market. Cannon also suggests that the current infrastructure isn't up to maintaining and fueling electric vehicles, in particularly Tesla's stores and go-to servicing can't handle high demands. Naturally he said Mercedes has the 'whole network' to put customers minds' at ease. Sounds like fighting words to me. Hey Mercedes, where's your Model S competitor?" There is a reason that Jim Rogers drove around the world in a Mercedes.

22 of 360 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the summary, it seems like they are valid criticisms at the moment. I hope tesla grows and becomes a big player, but both those points seem like they'll need to be addressed as they progress.

    1. Re:Yeah? by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The simple fact is, for the moment Tesla is an expensive car but not a luxury car. It gets the smooth ride part right, thanks to the non-reciprocating motor and no gearshifts to manage, and that's great, but compared to a similarly piced Merc or Lexus it's lacking (and at the unsubsidized price, where the S-Class lives, it's embarrassing).

      But that being said, Tesla company-wise is like nothing the industry has ever seen. They keep improving cars they've already sold. No one does that. Many of the "luxury features" on a luxury car aren't actually very expensive, they're just a matter of seeking every possible improvement, from better window laminates to keep the car cool in the sun, to a slightly better feel to the sun visor when you swing it thanks to not using the cheapest possible part. I'd bet that Tesla will catch up fast - I've never seen such rapid incremental improvement in a model line in my life.

      While some features do add a bunch to the cost of the car, I think Tesla, thanks to it's top-notch ride, could be fine alongside the E-Class / GS / Dozen or so other cars in it's price range in just a few years, of Tesla's rate of improvement continues. Unsurprisingly I guess to us geeks, they take a software-company view of "1000 incremental improvements? no problem, here's how we'll roll em out" that may leave the execs at Mercedes et al wondering what hit them.

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    2. Re:Yeah? by Guspaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some of them are sort of valid, but not relevant in practice. For example, it's true that Tesla's current service infrastructure can't handle high demands... but that's because the infrastructure is sized for the current customer base. Building a service infrastructure that can handle many more customers than you actually have is a waste of money, and it's completely unnecessary so long as you continue to scale that infrastructure as you grow.

  2. the New Mercedes Pooh-Pooh by turkeydance · · Score: 5, Funny

    what review did Eeyore give it?

    1. Re:the New Mercedes Pooh-Pooh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      a rather depressing one.

  3. Myopic viewpoint by ckhorne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As long as you look at the world as it is now and don't account for a fast moving tech world, I suppose his viewpoint is correct.

    In the same vein, around 2004 or so, smart phones would have appeared "limited" because the cell and wifi infrastructure didn't exist. Yet, in 10 years, the supply has met the demand (well, arguably), and now smart phones are ubiquitous.

    Or it could just be sour grapes.

    1. Re:Myopic viewpoint by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Or it could just be sour grapes.

      Of course it is. Mercedes missed the boat, despite trying to be cutting edge (e.g. with the F1 engines). Tesla came out of nowhere and made the best car in Mercedes' traditional market, the luxury sedan class. They are so far ahead Mercedes are years away from even producing something comparable to the Model S.

      --
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    2. Re:Myopic viewpoint by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're spending $70k on a car and your options are between the two companies I could definitely see the appeal in sticking with a tried and true brand.

      The thing is, as more and more people buy the $70,000 car, Tesla can start mass producing cheaper models as well. When my truck completely wears out in about 5-7 more years or so, I would certainly consider buying a Tesla if they have a model costing around $35k. As they are able to reach potential customers at the lower price points their brand will grow. Tesla isn't DeLorean, is much more practical than SmartCar, and has much better asthetics than any other electric car out there today. I think the company has legs.

      --
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    3. Re:Myopic viewpoint by deroby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I once thought the same thing about SAAB....
      (except for the 'they suck' part off course)

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    4. Re:Myopic viewpoint by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Tesla also plans to have cars in multiple price ranges; it sounds like they plan to have three within the next few years (the Model S, the Model E, and the Model X, and yes I realize the pun they built into the model names, they also trademarked "Model Y"). One of them, the Model E, is going to target that $30k price point (at least after rebates), although the reports are that the range will be in the 200-250 mile range rather than the 300-350 that their current top-end cars get.

      In terms of increasing the range, that should improve gradually over time as the cost of battery cells go down. That was the point of the $5 billion dollar GigaFactory that they're building, to reduce the cost of lithium ion cells. The primary goal of that is to reduce the cost enough to hit the Model E's price target, but it also has the benefit of enabling higher ranges in the luxury cars where they can spend more money on the battery, albeit at the expense of weight. I know that they're working on longer-term solutions to improve range. They got some patents recently that relate to combining metal air batteries with lithium ion batteries in a hybrid power solution designed to circumvent some of the limitations of metal air batteries (they have the potential for higher densities, but have poor cycle life), although that stuff is a rather long way off.

      In terms of ubiquitous fueling stops, they're working in that direction. They're hitting a steady pace building new stations, and by the end of 2015 should have most use cases covered between home-charging overnight and superchargers for distance drives. Automated battery swaps may help too.

      Their success isn't a sure thing, but they're definitely making progress towards solving the problems.

  4. Ghandi said... by Roxoff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "First They ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, Then you win."

    I think this looks a bit like Mercedes laughing at Tesla...

    --
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    1. Re:Ghandi said... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "First They ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, Then you win."

      I think this looks a bit like Mercedes laughing at Tesla...

      These days the big players know about Ghandi's saying, and attempt to do an end run around it:

      First they ignore you in public, fight you in private, and spend millions on lobbyists to prevent you from getting off the ground.
      Then they start suing for patent infringement/Trade infringement/whatever and possibly attempt to buy you out and bury your technology.
      If you survive, then you win. For the past 60 years, nobody's really got this far in the US, other than Japanese and Korean automakers, who played by the rules and became just like the US automakers.

    2. Re:Ghandi said... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. This is basically Mercedes FUD.

      "Well, yeah, I suppose the Teslas are nice cars and all but what if they break down? What if Tesla goes out of business? Who will you find to fix your $80,000 car then? If you're in the market for an electric car, you should probably wait until next year when we'll have our electric cars out and you can take it to your trusted Mercedes mechanic rather than having to deal with some fly-by-night company..."

      By the way, I took a look at the B-class Mercedes. It may just be me, but I'm not a big fan of the Tesla Model S' styling. That said, the Mercedes B class is just plain ugly.

  5. Re:Wait a second... by confused+one · · Score: 5, Informative

    yes, yes they did. Mercedes released a Euro B-class car using a drive train jointly developed by and supplied by Tesla. In addition, Mercedes is reported to be buying batteries for other projects from Tesla. Me thinks the Mercedes salesman is trying to protect his sales numbers and trying too hard to not look behind the curtain.

  6. Leverage the dealer network? by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Have any of them actually dealt with a stealership in the last 50 years? (Only reason I get near them, is dealer only parts.)

    Seriously; telling me to not buy a Tesla because I'll miss out on the dealership is like telling me not to...drawing a blank...no analogies are bad enough. Anybody?...lets skip the prison rape ones.

    --
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    1. Re:Leverage the dealer network? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      don't give up on smoking, you'll miss out on the cancer.

    2. Re:Leverage the dealer network? by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Funny

      Seriously; telling me to not buy a Tesla because I'll miss out on the dealership is like telling me not to...drawing a blank...no analogies are bad enough. Anybody?

      If only there were a car analogy for this situation...

  7. Mercedes shouldn't talk. by geekmux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...Tesla's stores and go-to servicing can't handle high demands. Naturally he said Mercedes has the "whole network" to put customers minds' at ease."

    Yes, I feel so much more at ease knowing there is an entire network of highly trained and certified rip-off artists across the country ready to turn my $35,000 Mercedes into a $60,000 pain-in-the-ass when it breaks down and needs to visit a "certified" repair shop.

    "There is a reason that Jim Rogers drove around the world in a Mercedes."

    Uh, yeah, a one-of-a-kind purpose-built Mercedes counts about as much as an army tank in this discussion. If you want to make claims about traversing the globe, impress me with an actual product demonstration, not a bullshit one. I would hope one would be able to traverse the globe in a custom-built vehicle that likely exceeded $500K in total costs, regardless of who built it.

  8. Re:Tesla needs just a few more things by AaronW · · Score: 4, Informative

    1. While Tesla may not be able to charge in 10 minutes, they have been aggressively rolling out rapid charging with their superchargers. In their cross country trip they spent 20% of their time charging. In the next month or so they will be rolling out battery swapping between the Bay Area and LA. That takes about 90 seconds. When I drove to Reno from the Bay Area I stopped in Folsom long enough to get a burger. By the time I was done I had plenty of range to reach Reno. The hotel I stayed at had an RV park as well where I was able to plug in.

    2. The charging infrastructure is filling out quickly. Regular J1772 chargers are popping up everywhere. Furthermore, the Tesla model S comes with a charging adapter allowing charging at any NEMA 14-50 50A outlet which is quite common at RV parks as well as a 110v plug (which is almost useless since 110v charges so slow).

    3. The Tesla model S is priced similarly to other cars in its class. The model E is planned to be priced to cars similarly.

    Generally the charging time is not an issue. It takes me 5 seconds to plug in at night and 5 seconds to unplug in the morning. Basically I have a full charge every day (or in my case about 70% since it's easier on the battery).

    The existing and planned supercharger stations are shown at http://www.teslamotors.com/sup...

    They're first focusing on the major transportation corridors before branching out further. By the end of next year most of the US should be covered unless you're traveling off the beaten path. With the model X going in to production next year I expect them to add more chargers in more out of the way places. Tesla is also releasing an adapter for ChaDeMo and will release an adapter for the combo plug if and when it starts to be deployed (Tesla's signalling is already compatible with the combo plug).

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  9. Switching from Mercedes to Tesla after $12K bill. by GeoffreyShmigelsky · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My transmission on a Mercedes 2011 GLK SUV just died. The repair cost is $12,000, its almost not worth repairing.

    Unfortunately its not covered by warranty - cut off at 80,000 km, we have 83,000 km.

    Ironically, just this afternoon I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Tesla to discussing ordering my replacement vehicle. Needless to say:

    New Mercedes cancelled.
    New Tesla imminent.


    Will be here in July.

    Maybe Mercedes should focus of the reliability of their transmissions vs focusing on competitors. I will never buy another Mercedes - ever.

    PS: You would think having purchased 4 vehicles from Mercedes and plans for another, that would mean something. But you would be wrong. Their side of the story - we were late for our Series A service - hence tough luck.

  10. Allow Me To Translate That! by JimSadler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What he really should have said is all automakers are frightened to death by Tesla and embarrassed beyond all bounds that they did not create Tesla's products. Obviously there is a conspiracy afoot to stop Tesla in its tracks as every state that Tesla sells in has suits claiming that they should not be allowed to exist. The industry is reacting as if Tesla had invented a car that could run for free on a drop of water. The powers that be see the handwriting on the wall and they are have a fit.

  11. Missing context.... by ianm.phil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    New Mercedes electric minivan has a Tesla touch
    Apr 17 2014, 08:04 ET

            Mercedes-Benz (DDAIF) has started production of an electric B-class minivan.
            Tesla Motors (TSLA) is providing the 28kWh lithium-ion battery and electric motor for the line.
            The model will go on sale this summer in the U.S.

    http://seekingalpha.com/news/1...