The Feds Accidentally Mailed Part of A $350K Drone To Some College Kid

Jason Koebler (3528235) writes "A Redditor got more than he bargained for in the mail today: He was accidentally mailed parts to a $350,000 environment and wildlife monitoring drone owned by the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration. 'We sent a set of about eight boxes for this one aircraft system, and one was misdelivered by UPS. We're working with UPS to find it,' the federal agency says."

Comments

wait... what???

[Virtucon]

$350,000 for a drone!?!?! I realize that this is durable and has good RF systems in it, but still that strikes me as a bit pricey for what it is. I mean for a few bucks more they could just buy Predators right?

Re:wait... what???

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Perhaps he got two or three AGM-114 Hellfires gratis with it. ;-)

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean for a few bucks more they could just buy Predators right?

An order of magnitude more is not a "few bucks".

Re:wait... what???

[mfh]

$2500 hammers.

Re:wait... what???

[jklovanc]

According to this the $350K is for a complete system and not a single aircraft.

A complete system (controller, spare parts, and three UAVs) costs $250,000 for the Raven and over $400,000 for Puma.

The price for a single aircraft is much closer to $100k.
Take a look at the capabilities of the Puma. The optics, communications, and autonomous navigation features are not cheap.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't surprise me if it has expensive imaging or survey systems or some such on it, given its intended use.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, couldn't they just download one and 3D print it? Maybe in space or something? It's the future.

Re:wait... what???

[pete6677]

It's military pricing. Nothing costs less than $100k. Hell, it costs the vendor $10k just to process the required government paperwork.

Re:wait... what???

[drew_92123]

How else do you think the SS pays for all their hookers and blow? ;-)

Re:wait... what???

[BitZtream]

automous navigation features cost you less than $500 for a fully working system controller including required accelerometers, gyros, GPS, compass and a short range telemetry system (only short range due to low output power). The flight controller doesn't have to be any different on a tiny little RC model all the way up to the the largest aircraft in service. The OSS software doesn't yet support orbiting but I suspect it will soon. The only hardware difference is the servos to drive the control surfaces and power output of the engines.

Oh, and its open source ... and it probably does more than anything the UAVs you mention do as far as flight control.

If you want the cheap asian knock off, its less than $200 from hobby king.

UAV controllers are an essentially solved problem, its just refinement at this stage, and the hardware to do the actual flight management is dirty cheap.

Communications are also a solved problem, the hardware is available already and is available to anyone, though it requires a operator license ... which doesn't come with the UAV, you have to get it yourself from the FCC.

Optics are a little tricker, but nothing to justify the cost of these systems unless you're ordering optics like used in the U-2 spy plane, which your drone isn't going to be capable of taking advantage of anyway. For anything other than what the NSA wants, a gimble to deal with pan/tilt/stabilization and vibration dampening isn't that expensive either, though gimble and camera are likely to be the most expensive bits if you want high quality but that may just be my misperception as thats the area I know least about. Low end stuff that works as well as anything you've actually seen footage from (i.e. not secret stuff) is less than 5k and it will shoot as good as most movie cameras ... from thousands of feet up where you can't hear it at all.

$100k is a ridiculous price. The communications/control system is a freaking PC with a high power transmitter, nothing special.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't just the cost of the base hardware that could theoretically function in that capacity, it's fitting it all together, custom designing and building components where necessary then going through the necessary testing (range, quality, flight control, durability, etc) and refinement processes. You could build Google Glass for $100 too if you don't care about having a horribly clunky, heavy, unreliable device with a cumbersome user experience.

Just because you can come up with a cheap parts list to theoretically cobble the functionality together doesn't mean it is going to result in a product that will be fit-for-purpose.

Re:wait... what???

[Skuld-Chan]

Its FAA certified parts - essentially take a normal part, multiply the price times 10 or 20 = FAA certified part.

Don't believe me? Look up how much a rubber tire for landing costs.

Re:wait... what???

[thegarbz]

It isn't just the cost of the base hardware that could theoretically function in that capacity, it's fitting it all together, custom designing and building components where necessary then going through the necessary testing (range, quality, flight control, durability, etc) and refinement processes.

You are doing it wrong. Nearly all of what is listed in the feature list can be made from off the shelf components using interoperable (read analogue voltage) signals. Even the flight controllers and RF systems use standard protocols (again typically analogue signalling). If you're blowing money on proprietary crap when off the shelf components already exist and work then you're doing it wrong. You want telemetry? Autonomy? Long range? How about 3D control of gimbals and camera control? Yeah my drone does that all for under $1000.

Just because you can assemble a drone from parts designed to work together (where did you get the idea that off the shelf parts means cobbling?) doesn't mean it won't be fit-for-purpose.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Still 100k$ for a model airplane.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

He's talking about the fucking exterior of the drone and fitting all those off the shelf components into the aircraft.
(at least I hope he is)
Sure, anyone can put together a quad rotor that can fly around with wires sticking out on every side.
But if you want something that looks clean, has all the components tucked away safely inside some housing,
has a light frame, and have the components survive some impact from rough landings, then you're going to have to pay.
The parts list is never the expensive thing.
It's the same with phones.
Sure I could buy a 20 MP image sensor, some GSM radio transceivers, a speaker, a mic and stick it all on an ARM board.
But that looks like shit, so I buy a phone made by a company that puts 100% or more mark-up on it.

Re:wait... what???

[StripedCow]

How do you know how big that drone is?
It could be a Cessna with built-in autonomous navigation systems.
etc.

Re:wait... what???

[flappinbooger]

$2500 hammers.

It's really $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat

Re:wait... what???

[jittles]

automous navigation features cost you less than $500 for a fully working system controller including required accelerometers, gyros, GPS, compass and a short range telemetry system (only short range due to low output power).

Just stop right there and think about it. NOAA and the USG are not hobbyists. Perhaps this platform does leverage open source but they probably need FAA certified equipment so that they can fly above the limits placed on hobbyists. Not to mention the potential liability to the government if they rolled out a $1000 drone and it crashed and killed someone. If they tried to explain that one away then some enterprise would leverage that to say that the USG should have dropped $2M on a predator (whatever its price is). They aren't doing this as a hobby. Maybe the $300+k comes from the sensor package also? Just because you can do something similar out of your garage doesn't mean that is what the government should be doing.

I'm all for cutting out pork, but you have not revealed any pork so far.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean for a few bucks more they could just buy Predators right?

When everything fails they can shoot rockets at them hurricanes! Fire with fire baby, fuck those hurricanes!

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

The sensors that are on the drone are the most expensive part. Just like the sensors on spacecraft are the most expensive parts.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey bigmouth: You're being called out (why're you running "forrest"?) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:wait... what???

[TheCarp]

> You are doing it wrong

No they are doing it right. Their customer has a nearly unlimited budget which needs to be spent and which they prefer to overspend because it gives them a way to expand their budget in the next cycle.

If they want to pay $20,000 for a hammer that is individually serial numbered, and wrapped, then you are an idiot for not stamping serial numbers on each one, bagging them up, and charging them 20k.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you could put together an open source hardware autopilot system for less than $500.

But if you're not an electronics geek, and you just want to buy something that works, and is supported by the manufacturer, you're going to have to pay more than that.

Re:wait... what???

[Virtucon]

you're kidding right? RTFA and you'll see that it's about the size of the average weekend hobbyist's RC airplane.

I need to get into the drone business because the profit margins appear to be staggering.

Re:wait... what???

[StripedCow]

I need to get into the drone business because the profit margins appear to be staggering.

Think twice. It will take only one terrorist to have all non-government drones completely banned.

Re:wait... what???

[Virtucon]

Well, we'll have already designed anti-drone drones which of course will cost extra.

Re:wait... what???

[StripedCow]

Perhaps you can start a drone lobby. Americans have the right to protect themselves using drones!

Re:wait... what???

[nitehawk214]

you're kidding right? RTFA and you'll see that it's about the size of the average weekend hobbyist's RC airplane.

I need to get into the drone business because the profit margins appear to be staggering.

You need to get into the "selling things to the government on a no bid contract buisness". The profit margins are staggering once you have greased the right palms.

Re: wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

Predators cost roughy $5 mil

Re:wait... what???

[thegarbz]

My point is you're doing it wrong if it actually costs you $20k to put that serial number on it.

The point was not that this is expensive, the point was that there's a HUGE markup. Frankly I'm amazed that people think otherwise given this was a government order.

Re:wait... what???

[Anonymous Coward]

According to this the $350K is for a complete system and not a single aircraft.

A complete system (controller, spare parts, and three UAVs) costs $250,000 for the Raven and over $400,000 for Puma.

The price for a single aircraft is much closer to $100k.
Take a look at the capabilities of the Puma. The optics, communications, and autonomous navigation features are not cheap.

I would guess the major cost is in an on-board instrument system for making scientific measurements.

Re:wait... what???

[gzuckier]

it's like ebay; you have to check whether the shipping fees are exorbitant.

Re:wait... what???

[gzuckier]

They'll be going for $40 at Toys R Us next Christmas. i got my night vision goggles there on closeout for $10. Probably wouldn't withstand combat use, though.

Stupid headline

[jklovanc]

The Feds Accidentally Mailed Part of A $350K Drone To Some College Kid

More like "UPS Unloads Extra Box containing Drone Parts at Some College Kid's House". The box was not addressed to him by the Feds. They do enough stupid things without ascribing UPS mistakes to them.

Re:Stupid headline

[Charliemopps]

I hope the feds paid for insurance. Otherwise all they're getting is $100. No exceptions, no matter what, I was told.

Re:Stupid headline

[Great Big Bird]

I love that: you have to pay for insurance in case they screw up. It should be them paying for that.

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

You would think the Feds would use the USPS... just saying.

Re:Stupid headline

[jklovanc]

By the way, the label on the box may not have been put on by the Feds. From the article;

“I can tell you that it didn’t come from us addressed to him,” he said.

It could have been done by UPS when they damaged the original label beyond recognition and just picked the closest package label to duplicate. I also doubt the presence of the label considering there are no pictures of it. The recipient's statements are very like made to make the Feds look bad.

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they didn't want the package contents stolen?

Re:Stupid headline

[SJHillman]

The fact they don't guarantee/insure it by default is the reason most people can afford them in the first place. If they wrapped that into their default price, the price of every package sent would go up.

Re:Stupid headline

[SJHillman]

If theft is what you're worried about, I'd take USPS over UPS or FedEx any day. The Post Office consider mail theft to be Serious Business.

Re:Stupid headline

[garyebickford]

It also is important for assigning a value to a package. Without a way to establish value that has an associated cost, everyone could just say the value is $1 million and UPS would be stuck with the bill. Even with this I think you still have to have some way of demonstrating the real value - you can't just pay for $1000 insurance on a bag of old confetti.

Re:Stupid headline

[Bite The Pillow]

This time it was the fault of some stupid fuck at Vice, rather than some stupid fuck at Dice, because the headline is a direct copy.

Doesn't make it any better that the headline doesn't at all match the summary even, but I prefer to point fingers at the right stupid fuck.

Re:Stupid headline

[JerryLove]

Which begs the question: Why didn't the government ship USPS?

Re:Stupid headline

[Garfong]

He probably didn't show the label because posting personally identifying information on the Internet is generally a bad idea, especially if you're in temporary possession of a $100K+ item.

And I'm not sure where you're coming from about trying to make the Feds look bad. Having a package mis-delivered by UPS or a call ring through to voicemail are hardly scandalous.

Re:Stupid headline

[digitalhermit]

Yes, that is true. Except for the insurance part. UPS doesn't really provide "insurance", per se.

Don't be fooled by the optional 'high value' stamp, which allows you to declare a higher value. Rightfully so, it's not "insurance" but just allows you to claim the proper value if it is lost or damaged.

If it's really important, ship it via a UPS customer counter or Mailboxes facility.

I used to work there a couple decades ago. One of my roles was to process computer claims. Considering that many items can fall from belts and "Fragile" means "Throw me hard, please!" in UPS-ese, I'd make sure to ship any critical items through their desk with a proper declared value.

Not that FedEx is much better. I think at one point they were but if you've seen what goes on behind the scenes it's a wonder that anything gets to its destination in one piece.

Might as well talk about the USPS too. (BTW, UPS is not USPS; some are not aware.) I shipped a display stand once. It was a fairly sturdy unit, cube shaped, of some expensive teak wood with brass corners. It could easily bear my weight (and I am not a slender dude). When the first piece arrived, my aunt asked what it was. "It's a stand," I said.

    "How do you put it together?" she said.

Eh?

Apparently they'd shipped a piece of my broken stand with a piece of someone else's broken furniture. The label from my box cut out and taped to this other box. I still don't know what happened to the rest of my display stand, but presumably someone is wondering what the heck happened to the rest of their chair.

Re:Stupid headline

[jklovanc]

He probably didn't show the label because posting personally identifying information on the Internet is generally a bad idea,

He didn't have to post the whole label, just the sender's address. I don't think the label exists.

Having a package mis-delivered by UPS or a call ring through to voicemail are hardly scandalous.

Exactly, but the government putting the wrong address on a package worth about $100K is scandalous. The kid is trying to turn a UPS mistake into a scandal.

Re:Stupid headline

[jklovanc]

Vice is stupid for starting it Dice is stupid for following along. Lets point fingers at both of them.

Re:Stupid headline

[Trepidity]

Isn't "performing the service you accepted money to perform" a pretty basic level of liability? Can I accept a contract to write some C++ code for you, but if you don't buy insurance from me, sometimes I just deliver your code to some other guy instead, and fuck you if you want redress?

Re:Stupid headline

[Frosty Piss]

Which begs the question: Why didn't the government ship USPS?

Good question. Where I work (Air Force), we are directed to use USPS Next Day or Registered when we need that kind of service. And, we have never been disappointed. But, most of our Next Day and Registered is classified, so the *law* says we have to mail it.

A few years back, A UPS guy delivered a very LARGE bottle of oxycodone (I have mail order pharmacy as part of my very nice non-ObamaCare medical as a government employee) to a neighbor... My cost $70, street value $5000.

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

http://pe.usps.com/businessmail101/mailcharacteristics/parcels.htm

If your mailpiece isn’t a postcard, letter, or a flat (large envelope), then it’s a parcel. You may be surprised to find out that "parcels" are not just big boxes. Many mailers send small parcels in all classes of mail. Parcels offer some of the best value for your postage dollars.

Parcel Dimensions
Generally, commercial parcels must measure:

        At least 3 inches high x 6 inches long x 1/4 inch thick.
        Except for Standard Post and Parcel Select, no mailpiece may measure more than 108 inches in length and girth combined. Length is the measurement of the longest dimension and girth is the distance around the thickest part (perpendicular to the length). Maximum weight is 70 pounds.

Re:Stupid headline

[BitZtream]

I don't know how big things that USPS can handle are allowed to be, but size of the packages or weight may have something to do with it?

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't "performing the service you accepted money to perform" a pretty basic level of liability? Can I accept a contract to write some C++ code for you, but if you don't buy insurance from me, sometimes I just deliver your code to some other guy instead, and fuck you if you want redress?

if you had as many lawyers as UPS i suspect it would actually work that way

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

What is your point, moron?

Re:Stupid headline

[maliqua]

they basically do the same as you would, they would refund the shipping cost if anything and nothing more.

As you would be expected to return the fee you received for the service you provide but would not assume liability for potential losses the client my assume because you didn't deliver the C++ code

Re: Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed.

Now can you please unzip my pants as I need to pee on TFA and have no free hands?

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, but the government putting the wrong address on a package worth about $100K is scandalous. The kid is trying to turn a UPS mistake into a scandal.

If you had actually bothered reading the reddit thread you would know that he never claimed it was the fault of anybody but UPS. Let me make it easier for you:

OP here, just called UPS. They told me that it was one of the undelivered packages in their office, and asked if I've ever had an undelivered package. I said no, but he insisted that it was mine, and said that it was up to me if I want to keep it or not. I don't think that's the right way to go about this, so I'm going to call the number on the card, and get this sorted out.

EDIT: For all of those saying things along the lines of "It's a federal offense to open someone else's mail," I should mention that the label on the exterior was addressed to me. Nothing on the outside of the crate said it was government property. I had ordered a weightlifting bench (which I received) and this came with it. Both boxes had UPS labels with my name and address. Though an odd box, I genuinely thought it was parts for the bench I ordered, since I wasn't expecting a freaking drone. I have to go back to college in a bit, so I wont be calling that NOAA hotline number right away, as I don't think I have the time to go through all the procedures to come. I plan on calling as soon as I can though.

EDIT 2: The UPS guy on the phone had said that this had been in storage, and was something that had been lost in transit, or in some other way went undelivered. He kept saying that it was mine, and something that was intended to be delivered to me, but didn't make it originally. Due to this, I feel like there isn't an active search for this thing, at least not yet. I'm not stressing too much, and I am going to call.

EDIT 3: Due to the apparent severity of this, I called the number in between classes. I got their voicemail. I'm getting a swarm of messages from people who claim they are in the industry, work at UPS, work for the NOAA, etc, but I don't think I can trust any of these random contacts. I'll be waiting on a response tomorrow, unless someone has irrefutable proof that they somehow have a connection that can get me to someone who matters on this issue. I'm still alive and well, and if you haven't read already, it's not military. Regardless, it's not mine, and I'll be sending it to its owner unless I'm told to keep it. I'll come back for an AMA once the issue is resolved, if you guys want. Here's hoping I survive until tomorrow.

EDIT 4: If you haven't seen yet, there apparently was a news article written about this.[1] I've sent an email to the author to get contact information from the NOAA spokesperson referenced in his article. According to him, this is one of 8 parts of a NOAA weather drone.

EDIT 5: So I decided to contact the author of the article I linked above. He was able to give me the phone number of someone in the NOAA who would be available at this hour. After describing what happened, he seemed pretty content about it. They were happy I reached out to them, and now know where their missing shipment went. He sent an email to me and someone higher up in the NOAA. I'll have to call back tomorrow in order to contact this higher-up, and organize how to get this thing back where it belongs.

Re:Stupid headline

[cdrudge]

Yes, that is true. Except for the insurance part. UPS doesn't really provide "insurance", per se.

Don't be fooled by the optional 'high value' stamp, which allows you to declare a higher value. Rightfully so, it's not "insurance" but just allows you to claim the proper value if it is lost or damaged. ...

Huh? It man not legally be called insurance, but you have the option of declaring the value of the merchandise being shipped and for $.90 per $100 (current book rate), paying a fee to cover the loss beyond the initial $100 should the package become lost, stolen, or damaged. That sounds a lot like the lay definition for insurance to me.

I've shipped hundreds of packages with "insured" values using both their shipping software and truck pickup, or their website. I've never had a problem with a claim because I didn't go to a counter to fill out the paperwork there or have them put a magical stamp/sticker on the box to mark it fragile.

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice drone. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

Re:Stupid headline

[Anonymous Coward]

That would only be true if they damaged / lost a majority of the packages.

The *insurance* cost is a scam solely for extra profits.

Re:Stupid headline

[nitehawk214]

Now if it was sent via USPS, then you could conceivably say "the feds", though it would be willfully obtuse to do so.

Re:Stupid headline

[digitalhermit]

"$100 (current book rate), paying a fee to cover the loss beyond the initial $100 should the package become lost, stolen, or damaged. That sounds a lot like the lay definition for insurance to me."

The devil's in the details...
http://www.pressroom.ups.com/F...

Just because the lay definition of declared value sounds like insurance, it isn't. With insurance, if you are at fault the insured item may still be covered. E.g., if you crash your car it will often be covered even if you are at fault. With declared value, if you improperly pack your item and it is damaged then UPS is not liable.

People watch too many Seinfeld episodes.

Other drone parts to follow!

[penguinoid]

If he doesn't return it, odds are he'll get other drone parts for free!

A Nice Gift

[Anonymous Coward]

According to postal inspector rules, he gets to keep it:

If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.

https://postalinspectors.uspis...

Re:A Nice Gift

[Anonymous Coward]

No. It was delivered not sent to him on purpose. Your link only applies to things purposefully sent to a person. You don't get to keepsake/packages that the shipping service mis delivers.

Re:A Nice Gift

[jklovanc]

Only if it was actually sent to him and not just miss delivered by UPS. He says there was a label addressed to him but no pictures of the label. There are for other picture but none of the label. Also the USPS article is about unsolicited merchandise and the NOA is not a merchant. The paper inside also states ownership of the package. So yeah, he will get a visit to get the package back.

Re:A Nice Gift

[Obfuscant]

According to postal inspector rules, he gets to keep it:

UPS is not USPS. And it wasn't sent to him, it was misdelivered. Stop trusting the headlines of /. articles. They're intended to fan flames and not to inform. If a certain cable news network did the same kind of thing they'd be accused of being inept and corrupt. When /. does it, it's just fine.

Re:A Nice Gift

[bloodhawk]

No he doesn't, that would see him charged with theft. Accidental deliveries don't count as unsolicited gifts, though the responsibility and cost is on the delivery company and/or the sender to arrange for collection and potentially compensation if the collection of said package has any costs for the unintended recipient.

Re:A Nice Gift

[BitZtream]

That applies ONLY to unsolicited mail ... i.e. spam. It does not apply to misdirected, mislabeled, or packages delivered to the wrong address.

Re:A Nice Gift

[Firethorn]

So yeah, he will get a visit to get the package back.

They do have to make it very easy for him to return it though. Like him saying 'I'll be there at 1515-1530 to hand it over' and UPS being there at 1515, even if they have to send a supervisor.

I once donated a package to charity after it was delivered to my house with a supremely messed up address and the business didn't want to pick up their phone. 90 days later* when I noticed the package still hanging around I donated it.

Easiest return policy ever!

[Tablizer]

At least it's easy to return: just make it fly back on it's own.

Yeah, "environment and wild life monitoring drone"

[Anonymous Coward]

Better be careful what you say or else Obama will use his toys to drop some freedom on you.

I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Buy model planes from any hobby shop.
2. ???
3. Sell them to the government at a 100,000% markup.

Re:I know, right?

[jklovanc]

Show me a model plane that has a 15 km radio range, autonomous GPS navigation, IR and visible light camera on a stabilized mount, designed to be reliable in hazardous environments while being handled by infantrymen, and can stay up for 3.5 hours. Then plan to build less than 30,000 of them. Complex systems and low quantities make these things very expensive. This is very different than a simple toy that takes a tens of thousands of dollars to design and hundreds of thousand are aircraft are made.

Sell them to the government at a 100,000% markup.

You even exaggerate or do you really think you can but an RC aircraft with remotely similar capabilities for $1. (The $350K is for the complete system which includes 3 aircraft plus spares).

Re:I know, right?

[ShaunC]

Show me a model plane that has a 15 km radio range, autonomous GPS navigation, IR and visible light camera on a stabilized mount, designed to be reliable in hazardous environments while being handled by infantrymen, and can stay up for 3.5 hours

I'd love to try, but I'm pretty sure half of those things would be illegal for "Joe Average" me to even attempt, and I don't have a few million laying around to bankroll FCC, FAA, and other necessary certifications to upfit a COTS drone much less develop my own. Unless you're Lockheed or someone, you don't have much of a chance in this arena, and then you can and will charge $350K per "system" and the government will pay it because nobody else is selling.

Re:I know, right?

[Jack Griffin]

How many kgs of cocaine will I need to smuggle with these to cover the cost?

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it depends on your margin.

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me a model plane that has a 15 km radio range, autonomous GPS navigation, IR and visible light camera on a stabilized mount, designed to be reliable in hazardous environments while being handled by infantrymen, and can stay up for 3.5 hours.

Dragonlink. MultiWii, some cameras, and a big battery with a huge wingspan. Easy. We do better in the R/C world and I could build that thing for less than $1k each using off-the-shelf everything.

Re:I know, right?

[BitZtream]

... I could convert my fixed wing UAV to nitro and hit an hour of flight time, you can fly it in 'super simple mode' with a playstation controller and a laptop without any previous experience flying (I've tested this with multiple people who knew nothing about it in advance), I can get 4-5km range with off the shelf components and a directional tracking antenna.

GPS, IR and visible light camera on a stabilized mount, and able to be operated and handled by an infantrymen ... all check, though I generally carry either IR or daylight cameras rather than both.

I only built one (singular) initially, but it cost a little less than $2k without optics. Admittedly, their camera is far superior to mine, they aren't using a $98,000 camera either.

You really have no idea how cheap and easily obtainable fully autonomous UAVs are. Scaling it up is proportional, not exponential or something silly.

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

Show me a model plane that has a 15 km radio range

$100 UHF transceiver. Even the cheap ones can do telemetry as well as instructional commands, failsafe detection etc.

autonomous GPS navigation

any $100 flight controller

IR and visible light camera on a

This one is expensive. Budget $5000 for it.

stabilized mount,

$1000 gets you a well made 3D gimbal for a heavy camera.

designed to be reliable in hazardous environments

define this. Is it raining acid up there? Are you wanting it bullet proof? Given the amazing footage of a cheap DJI quad flying through an erupting volcano without issue, how hazardous are we talking?

while being handled by infantrymen,

The aforementioned flight controllers have some really idiot proof modes.

and can stay up for 3.5 hours.

That's a function of size, battery and engine capacity. For a big hardened one carrying heavy reconnaissance equipment I'd budget $10k

Then plan to build less than 30,000 of them.

Hows plug and play kits sound?

Yes the grandparent exaggerates. But you do to. There's no reason a system like this costs what they are charging for it. Many hobbyists meet a lot of that criteria on a sub $1000. Much of the criteria you mention isn't different to the several manufacturers of commercial vehicles on the market today which come in no where near that price tag. Then maybe double or even triple the cost for hardening and you're still waaaaay under the $100k per plane.

The markup is not as high as 100000%, but it's no where near as low as 0% either.

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't include the golf/Vegas trips, dinners, hookers, etc as part of the sales and approval process.

Re:I know, right?

[jklovanc]

How about you show some examples of the products you mention. As far as I can tell you are pulling numbers out of the air.

A gambol is not stabilization. Stabilization is much more difficult.
The $100 transceiver could not deal video in high enough rez to be useful. Cost estimate on camera is way low. This camera has to see people at over a mile away and be about the size of your fist. That kind of performance is very expensive. When I mention infantrymen I mean they will be the ones assembling and taking care of the equipment. They are no know for their light touch.

One of the main cost factors is to get this kind of performance into a man portable package. When you go small things get expensive fast.

Many hobbyists meet a lot of that criteria on a sub $1000.

Ever hear of the 80/20 rule? In general one spends 80% of the budget on the last 20% of the features. Not meeting all the requirements would make it useless in combat.

Re:I know, right?

[jklovanc]

So you are 1/4 of the capability of the equipment we are talking about. Good for you. The 4-5 km range is much less than 15 and the flight time of an hour is much less that 3.5 hours. You be the one to tell the mother her some was killed because the drone ran out of power.Sure you can do some of the things an expensive drone can to but doing them all is very expensive. Your logic is like comparing a Honda Civic with a quarter mile time of 17 seconds to a Bugatti Veyron with a quarter mile time of 10 second and saying the Bugati should cost less than twice as much as the Bugatti.

Scaling it up is proportional, not exponential or something silly.

Actually it is closer to exponential than linear. Look at the priced of these cameras they go from $1k to $27K. I doubt that the $27K camera is 27times as effective as the $1K. Also notice that $27K time 2 cameras is half the cost of the aircraft. Add a spare and that is over $75K in cameras alone. Your logic is like comparing a Honda Civic with a quarter mile time of 17 seconds to a Bugatti Veyron with a quarter mile time of 10 second and saying the Bugati should cost less than twice as much as the Honda.

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

IR and visible light camera on a

This one is expensive. Budget $5000 for it.

Less than you'd think. Pretty much any digital camera can be easily modified to be IR capable, from cheap-but-good GoPros to high end DSLRS.

http://www.extremetech.com/ele...

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

Horsecrap on the video. IR video feeds are NOT highdef. Reconnaissance video is not highdef. Images are and they can be delivered in due course. The important part about reconnaissance is that the camera is controllable and has a sufficient zoom ratio. Stabilization is a function of the camera and optics. Gimbals will stabilize the camera against movement from the equipment as well. Yes it is more difficult but not by much and helicopter mounted cameras capable of IR can be had for under $10k, $5k for a cheap one isn't out of the ballpark, and in any case I added a contingency at the bottom for hardening / quality required for government use.

You're right cameras need to see far away but I can see you haven't kept up with lenses, sensors, or similar equipment. We're not talking Canon 1DMkIII quality images here, have you even seen the kind of images that these drones spit out? A CCTV camera that can pick out a subject from a km away can be had for under $1k. Special purpose optics that provide *sufficient* quality images are not expensive, and they certainly aren't the size of a 600mm Canon lens either.

Pulling numbers out of the air for the rest of the kit?
Arducopter as a basic open source example provides a complete autonomous capability for flight of planes, and multirotor craft of many configurations including mission flying with waypoints and outputs which can be adjusted via telemetry mid flight, return to home, fail safe configurations. This is a cheap hobby piece of equipment which runs on controllers like the APM2.5 which can be bought for $70 + $20 for a GPS unit. I have flown a styrofoam plane over 30km from base using a UHF OrangeRx transceiver pair. I bought it for $60 and it does 9ch + telemetry at an admittedly quite slow data rate.

While this is all built and assembled by yours truly it doesn't cost much more to get a complete radio + controller package that is off the shelf, and idiot proof when it comes to assembly. DJI have done a lot of nice work putting sensitive electronics in the hands of what I can tell are utter idiots and their cheaper controllers are also in the sub $500 range, so I'm sure we can deal with assembly for the hamfisted.

So for your 80/20 rule are you saying that my drone should cost $5000 instead of $1000? phew just as well I have $95k to spare. I'm being facetious but the reality is still you could put together one BEAST of a drone to meet requirements you're talking about for about $50k, and much of it can be done with off-the-shelf components. $350k for a 3 drone flight system is excessive and I guarantee there's a nice profit margin typical of government contracts built into that.

Re:I know, right?

[Firethorn]

100 UHF transceiver. Even the cheap ones can do telemetry as well as instructional commands, failsafe detection etc.

Does it do encryption/frequency hopping in order to be able to resist jamming and people attempting to take control?

define this. Is it raining acid up there?

Not the original poster, certainly, but I'm thinking a small amount of hail resistance, not to mention buckshot.

The aforementioned flight controllers have some really idiot proof modes.

You haven't worked with infantry, have you? They tend to redefine 'better idiot'. A lot are great, a number make you wonder...

That's a function of size, battery and engine capacity. For a big hardened one carrying heavy reconnaissance equipment I'd budget $10k

I think you're being optimistic and are forgetting labor for putting it all together. Hobbyists tend to forget/discount the hundreds or even thousands of hours they put into assembling and debugging these systems. Commercial company's can't forget.

Other expenses would be, and this isn't comprehensive:
Warranty if/when it breaks, perhaps even if it crashes due to user error*. Training for an initial set of operators. Programming support. When it breaks/they want something new, they'll be coming to you, not online. Generally the government wants at least 3 years of comprehensive on site support for stuff like this.

*Can you prove it was user error to the satisfaction of a government body that can blackball you rather easily?

Re:I know, right?

[HJED]

Protip: look how much an accurate GPS unit it costs, an accurate one is well over a $100. (Think closer to $1000).
What about radar?
This is a wildlife monitoring drone, it's going to need reasonable range and that means good battery life and low power equipment. Add $100+ to all purchases and a reasonable budget for a long life, lightweight battery. Autonomous navigation and other custom software features (which need to be extensively tested with your possibly unique hardware combination) ass at least $5000

Re:I know, right?

[drainbramage]

And shipping.
You left out the shipping costs.
Then the costs of recovery.
It all adds up.

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when amateurs start quoting numbers for items that are not appropriate for the task at hand. There is no way you can reason with these people because... well they are amateurs and they don't understand the reliability issues, flight requirements, or the fact that they trust GPS alone (what no INS?).

Re:I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

$100 UHF transceiver. Even the cheap ones can do telemetry as well as instructional commands, failsafe detection etc.

Sigh... they are also only 100mw - 1400mw. They work okay as long as there aren't any co-channel interference. They are appropriate for amateur R/C needs but their front end IF filters on the receivers are ridiculously wide (10 channel capability on the cheap) but more than capable where the operator is line of sight. They are also not reliable at all, and are made for hobbyists that can survive a controller failure and don't mind spending $100-$150 occasionally to simply replace the flaky thing. Oh yea their telemetry is pretty much limited to basic flight control and do not have the capability to downlink payload telemetry at the bandwidth required.

It's obvious you never had to build one of these before. Seasoned R/C hobbyists have spent well over $10,000 on their passion, and these are the types of craft that require line of sight control and don't have the flight requirements (range, weight capacity, out-of-line of sight control), or high resolution multi-filter camera required for remote sensing by NOAA.

Re:I know, right?

[Bill_the_Engineer]

I couldn't help but notice that you keep quoting hobbyist prices for components designed for LOS control and small payload. Try researching some FAA approved control systems and plane assemblies and quote those prices so we can fully appreciate the real costs involved.

Re:I know, right?

[Goaway]

No, you can do the first half of the requirements that way. The second half, not so much.

Re: I know, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is based of the price you pay

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

You may have noticed that FAA approval regulations depend on size and payload weight, both of which are easily achievable using the same equipment and as such has no additional regulatory requirements. You may also note that the FAA has so far not successfully enforced any regulation on any drone user even in cases of unapproved commercial use. Or you could look at commercial systems which already exist for things like event coverage which have the required payload capacity to handle large HD studio video cameras let alone the much smaller IR spy cameras we are talking about here.

Why do you think that the only option must be horrendously expensive? We're talking about something smaller than a bicycle here.

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

Accurate or repeatable? You've never used one of these systems have you? People instinctively think that something automated or something that flies in the air needs to be accurate to 1mm or some garbage like that. It doesn't. From a $20 GPS unit you can hold a perfectly steady location within 1m on a really windy day using a multirotor craft. Using my multirotor or my plane I can take off, fly for however long I want and then land autonomously within 1m of my starting location. Sure that 1m may be a few meters off its real location but the point is even cheap GPS units are quite repeatable. We're talking about taking photos, not launching ballistics.

As for low power equipment, don't make me laugh. Electrical equipment mounted to these vehicles are orders of magnitude lower power than the rotors to keep the thing in the air. All you need for long flight time is a reasonably light air frame and big batteries. My personal flying record was a 4 hour round trip, though I wasn't behind the wheel the entire time. On the home trip I set it to fly home by itself and had lunch. It was a $400 plane.

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

Yes my cheaparse receiver does frequency hopping. They typically have to in the hobby arena as many people are using the same frequencies in close proximity.

You seem to think drones are more difficult than they really are. Most systems are plug and play. They use simple analogue outputs / digital inputs to communicate with each other. If you can assemble a computer and figure out which USB port to plug a mouse into then you can assemble a drone. Some of the more expensive (read $400 instead of $100) flight controllers even use a common bus system so you don't even need to worry about where you plug your stuff into, just plug it anywhere. The only thousands of hours I've blown in this hobby was actually using my gear, not assembling or debugging it.

Warranty / Training wasn't taken into account. I was arguing about the cost of the plane which someone quoted as $100k It stands to reason that much of this $100k has nothing to do with the plane itself but is rather services attached to the acquisition. I fully agree with you there.

Re:I know, right?

[HJED]

Accurate or repeatable? You've never used one of these systems have you?

And you've never used one of these systems where you need to collect accurate date (such as this one would). It also has to be more durable then your hobby plane, and possibly fly a lot longer whilst carrying heavier equipment to use for wildlife monitoring (HD cameras, backup radios, radar, etc (depending on what exactly it was doing).

Re:I know, right?

[thegarbz]

Actually I have, and not all data needs to be accurate. Location of plane is fine with an accuracy of several meters. There is ZERO reason that the plane needs to know it's location more accurately unless it needs to weave between obstacles, and when that happens LIDAR is used for navigation instead.

But maybe that's how the cost got so high. Someone like you decided to gold plate every spec without actually thinking which are the important ones. As for hobby plane I know of no hobby plane that comes in the price I mentioned. You may have noticed that I mentioned several thousand dollars for airframe, where did I get that number from? A plane designed to carry a heavy studio camera, not one made of styrofoam. The airframe on a hobby plane rarely exceeds about $200.

But hey you seem to be the expert so I'll let you be, and I'll be more than happy to build and sell you something with a super duper GPS/GLONASS/Baidou/Galileo receiver accurate to 10mm if it makes you feel all warm an fuzzy inside. You can sit it next to your 24bit soundcard, and your Intel Xeon machine the receptionist uses to play solitaire.

Re:Saw this on reddit, posted by Seventy_Seven

[ArmoredDragon]

So the republicans are going to go after him because UPS doesn't want to be run by a union traditionally run by the mafia?

You might want to check if your powered tinfoil hat is working...generally those don't include batteries, so if you didn't put them in then it isn't going to do anything.

Re:Saw this on reddit, posted by Seventy_Seven

[SJHillman]

I wasn't aware that Republicans were in charge of UPS.

Working to find it?

[Anonymous Coward]

We're working with UPS to find it

Maybe you should be working with Reddit to find it, since we all know who has it now...

Re:Working to find it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some random arab looking guy identified from a blurry picture and a hat that kind of looks similar?

Re:Saw this on reddit, posted by Seventy_Seven

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, i am sure some of the board members are republicans :) rich folks often are.

Lame,...

[Anonymous Coward]

takes the gov't to screw up gov't plans..
like the Rich raping the Rich..

You have to make an ass-tonne of money to have the privileged. otherwise go out and look for the peasants to pee on..

moving past that, how does this apply to slashdot versus something like Hackaday??

Once again, our ever observant overlords at it again, missing the mark..

Perhaps looking at DICE adds all day??

thx

Good Grief

[Frosty Piss]

This is a non-story: UPS mis-delivers a non-classified package from to government to some college student who decided to whore for 15 minutes of fame.

Done.

Next...

Re:Good Grief

[ArmoredDragon]

Both of you are wrong, actually.

He posted on Reddit because he was trying to get into contact with NOAA, which is apparently difficult to do (when he contacted them directly, they didn't provide any means for him to get it to them; perhaps not even aware of what he was talking about.)

Furthermore, it was addressed to him, even had his fucking name on it. That makes him well within his rights to open it, especially when he was actually EXPECTING a big package.

Re:Good Grief

[Frosty Piss]

He posted on Reddit because he was trying to get into contact with NOAA, which is apparently difficult to do (when he contacted them directly, they didn't provide any means for him to get it to them; perhaps not even aware of what he was talking about.)

Bullshit. The package had contact info that the receiver chose not to thoroughly pursue, and his story related to that doesn't hold water. Reddit is not the proper place to contact NOAA unless you wish to gain the kind of "street cred" that whoring bullshit at Reddit gains you, while calling a few numbers and taking the time to look into ownership is not as "sexy" to a "Redditor".

Re:Good Grief

[exomondo]

The package had contact info that the receiver chose not to thoroughly pursue

Mark it RETURN TO SENDER, drop at a UPS office and tell them it was mis-delivered, problem solved.

Re:Good Grief

[DarwinSurvivor]

That contact info was most likely *inside* the case. Otherwise it would be likely to get lost when the packaging is removed.

Re:Good Grief

[ArmoredDragon]

Bullshit. The package had contact info that the receiver chose not to thoroughly pursue, and his story related to that doesn't hold water. Reddit is not the proper place to contact NOAA unless you wish to gain the kind of "street cred" that whoring bullshit at Reddit gains you, while calling a few numbers and taking the time to look into ownership is not as "sexy" to a "Redditor".

Bullshit. When I'm expecting a package, and I receive one addressed to me, I never bother to look at who sent it or where it came from, I just fucking open it. I'm pretty sure 99% of everybody else does the same thing. Maybe you're the paranoid type, or perhaps you have more enemies than you can count, but as for me personally? There's no reason for anybody to send me a mail bomb.

On top of that, once you open it, you have to pay return shipping to return it to the sender. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't drop the $20 or so it would cost to ship a package as heavy as I'm betting that one would be (not necessarily the drone parts themselves, but the big thick black plastic case it came in and the padding as well.)

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

You are looking for a reason to keep something that is not yours. You are dishonest. If you worked for the government and had a security clearance and I knew who you were, I would turn you in as a security threat.

Actually, law is grey in this area. What you have technically received is an unsolicited gift. It is yours.

After that, its pretty much who wants to spend more on the lawyers.

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a grey area: it must be addressed to the recipient in order to be considered an unsolicited gift. If it is not then it is a mis-delivered package and not subject to the gift clause.

Re:Good Grief

[interkin3tic]

Posting something odd on reddit is "whoring for 15 minutes of fame" now? What's posting on slashdot then?

Re:Good Grief

[DarwinSurvivor]

What the hell are you talking about? I was saying, assuming my assumption is correct, that he was justified in OPENING the case, not fucking keeping it.

Re:Good Grief

[nitehawk214]

Posting something odd on reddit is "whoring for 15 minutes of fame" now? What's posting on slashdot then?

Karma Whoring

Your produce is dangling perilously low

[rmdingler]

A Redditor got more than he bargained for in the mail today.

Possibly a key that might start a new truck down to the local Ford House?

Working with UPS to find it?

[freak0fnature]

The last time UPS messed up a delivery for me, their automated phone system told me where it was. When I talked to a real person and explained that my package was not delivered, he had the address where it was delivered on the computer, and the address of where it was supposed to go as well. (It was a mile away on a completely different street...I'm assuming his next stop. I just went and got it myself, just asked about a package that wasn't theirs.)

The real question is, if they have the capability to know where it was really delivered, why would they not program the handhelds to make all sorts of noise when the delivery guy screws up?

Re:Working with UPS to find it?

[Obfuscant]

The real question is, if they have the capability to know where it was really delivered, why would they not program the handhelds to make all sorts of noise when the delivery guy screws up?

I've had both UPS and FedEx actually change the customer-supplied delivery address because they ... thought they knew better? The last time, the hand-written FedEx form was still on the outside of the box, but the computer-printed one said something different. They're deliberately delivering things to the wrong place. Why would the handheld scanner complain about that?

Mix Up

[Anonymous Coward]

You see they meant to do a drone strike but accidental instead.ly mailed it to him

OP, you're a moron.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're title is plain wrong. Idiot. I have no other words for you.

Re:OP, you're a moron.

[Deadstick]

OK, now mixing up homophones...it sucks, but this is the Internet. But using a homophone correctly in the title and wrong in the text...that's a little more creative.

Re:Yeah, "environment and wild life monitoring dro

[Ralph Wiggam]

What do you think the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration does?

UPS is aweful internationally.

[Anonymous Coward]

UPS just screwed me out of $13 on a packaged marked valued as $25.. "Brokerage fees" No surprised they drop packages at wrong addresses or beat the hell out of them also, top down disrespect.,

USPS rules!

Re:Saw this on reddit, posted by Seventy_Seven

[jklovanc]

And some are Democrats as there are rich Democrats too.

about eight boxes

[hraponssi]

so if you sent about eight boxes of stuff.. is that 7.8 boxes and maybe next time 8.2 boxes? and how do you know you are missing one if you get 7 which is quite close to about 8?

Delivery confirmation on that?

[Machupo]

Somewhere between $350,000 and $1-2 billion (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/black-budget/ - see the NRO bit) is the government's Give-a-fuck-threshold for assured delivery. SpaceX may have a point.

Republicans are running the government?

[raymorris]

Last I checked, the democrats have been "running" things for the last six years.

* Where "running" means "destroying".

Re:Republicans are running the government?

[Anonymous Coward]

Using that logic, they've had eight years if you consider the time they had both the House and Senate when Bush Jr was refusing to veto any bill. That proves that logic is wrong. It is the Republicans that control everything and have since 1980.

boss: send a drone over to check him out

[raymorris]

The best post on the reddit thread:

[–]LoveExists 392 points 3 hours ago
NSA Agent: "Sir, we have reports that u/Seventy_Seven may be working with a terrorist cell, what should we do?"
NSA Officer: "Send a drone over there, let me know what happens." walks away...
NSA Agent: mutters to himself "its not like anyone ever sends them back.."
permalinkparent

Re:Saw this on reddit, posted by Seventy_Seven

[SJHillman]

Seven of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats, although reporting on Congress members' net worth is inaccurate by design. There's quite a few of them with a net worth in the negative six figures too.

Run And Dump

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

If I were the kid I would be driving to the Pawn Shops in Tijuana Mexico to dump this shit pronto for a few 10K greenbacks.

Ha ha

350K and UPS?? why noy pay more to have

[Joe_Dragon]

it hand delivered or why not get a army guy to drop it off. But then then can get a gomer pyle to mess up.

Re:350K and UPS?? why noy pay more to have

[camperdave]

Not all drones are military. This is a science drone for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It has nothing to do with the army.

Must have kicked it down the wrong chute.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry. We'll send you the bill for the return shipping as soon as possible.

Reminds me of Music Club Subscriptions...

[Sir Holo]

Years ago, before my time, Columbia House or BMG might mail you some records (equivalent to CDs). Later, they would send you a bill for the goods that arrived un-ordered and un-asked-for. Then, mail fraud law caught up, and those scams went away.

This is not that case, but really, I wonder if those laws are applicable to the delivery of packages to the "wrong" person by UPS in such a case. If so, the mis-delivered or un-asked-for delivery is his/hers to keep — no strings.

Or, alternatively, why was something so costly being sent by regular delivery? I mean, really, would you UPS a Lamborghini to your customer?

Re:Reminds me of Music Club Subscriptions...

[jonnythan]

For one thing, this isn't USPS. It's UPS. I expect the laws are different for that.

For another, the part apparently wasn't addressed to him. It was misdelivered. If someone else's mail ends up in your mailbox, you don't get to open it and keep whatever's inside. If it's not addressed to you, you're not allowed to open it at all.

Re:Reminds me of Music Club Subscriptions...

[david_thornley]

Apparently, by the time it got to the guy it was addressed to him. I rather assume this was not placed by the sender, but put on by UPS.

Re:Easiest return policy ever! (correction)

[Tablizer]

correction: "on its own".

He was on a different list

[Bender Unit 22]

Someone thought that the "drone target" or surveillance list ment he should get spare parts.

US Postal Law

[popo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you receive something addressed to you that was sent by accident, you are under no obligation to return it and it legally belongs to you. I'm pretty sure this is US Postal Law.

IANAL so anyone more familiar with this, feel free to chime in. But AFAIK the parts now legally belong to the kid.

Re:US Postal Law

[Anonymous Coward]

huh? wtf are you smoking?

Re:US Postal Law

[jittles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you receive something addressed to you that was sent by accident, you are under no obligation to return it and it legally belongs to you. I'm pretty sure this is US Postal Law.

IANAL so anyone more familiar with this, feel free to chime in. But AFAIK the parts now legally belong to the kid.

Go ahead and try that with the federal government and see where that gets you! Not to mention the law covers mail that is addressed to you. IT was to prevent people from sending you "gifts" and trying to invoice you for that item later. It wasn't addressed to him. He shouldn't have even opened it to begin with.

Re:US Postal Law

[ImprovOmega]

It wasn't addressed to him is the key point here.

Re:US Postal Law

[popo]

I am smoking US Law.

"Q. Am I obligated to return or pay for merchandise I never ordered?
A. No. If you receive merchandise that you didn’t order, you have a legal right to keep it as a free gift."

Source: Federal Trade Commission Re: Unordered Merchandise
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/a...

Shipping UPS/Fedex

[Firethorn]

The simple answer would be contractors. Contractors can ship however they like. They may be working 'for' the government, but they're not government employees

lol

[slashmydots]

"We're working with UPS to find it"
From personal experience, good fucking luck.
By the way, misleading headline. THEY didn't mail it to him. UPS simple delivered it there on accident. They probably "mailed" it to its actual target, it just didn't get there.

Knee Jerk Reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFS:

The Feds Accidentally Mailed . . .

. . . was misdelivered by UPS. We're working with UPS to find it,' the federal agency says."

The Feds mailed it to the wrong address, or was is misdelivered? Was it sent via mail, or UPS? How the fuck am I supposed to have a proper knee jerk reaction to such a horrible summary?

Re:Knee Jerk Reaction

[bkcallahan]

How the fuck am I supposed to have a proper knee jerk reaction to such a horrible summary?

You seem to be doing fine, relax!

Was it Delivered Star Wars day?

[Dabido]

Sorry, kid. This ain't the drone you're looking for!