Slashdot Mirror
London Black Cabs Threaten Chaos To Stop Uber
Bruce66423 (1678196) writes in with news about a planned protest by London black-cab drivers against Uber. "London black-cab drivers are planning to cause gridlock in the city to protest against car service Uber. The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters. Transport for London has declined to intervene, because it disagrees that there has been a breach of the law. LTDA now plans to force the issue by holding the action in early June. 'Transport for London not enforcing the Private Hire Vehicles Act is dangerous for Londoners,' Steve McNamara, LTDA's general secretary, told the BBC. 'I anticipate that the demonstration against TfL's handling of Uber will attract many many thousands of cabs and cause severe chaos, congestion and confusion across the metropolis.'"
Does that mean the entire LBC can be defined as a terror organization and placed in whatever Britain's equivalent of Guantanamo Bay is?
This could be a doubly pointed demonstration: Uber becomes the defacto 'taxi' service of London, and the government shows exactly what will happen if anybody things to provoke demonstrations which might infringe upon the steady operation of infrastructure :)
Yet another Streisand fighting the free market. Thanks for putting me onto Uber.
These are the sellers of horse feed trying to fight cars not eating oats. Quite simply the day unoccupied driverless cars become a reality this entire job description will be struck from the registry. Driver of car will be right beside shoveler of coal.
We might not see this for a number of years, but what will make me laugh out loud will be when on the eve of driverless cars these same cabbies will inform us that, "People will feel safer and prefer a human cabbie."
As for Uber, the key of any new regulations should not be to protect cabbies, but to protect customers. I suspect that some dark spots with Uber will show up and thus need solving. But one of those dark spots is not the providing of much needed competition in our city's streets.
If you don't like it, write a letter. If you're going to cause an obstruction, I hope "the fuzz" descends on you like a ton of bricks.
If kids have to learn "Baa, Baa, Rainbow Sheep" in school now then you sure as hell can't be calling them Black Cabs!
"We're going to cause gridlock preventing traffic for Black Cabs, on the same day!" Just to fuck with them. Everyone providing gridlock for everybody else, saying "Muahaha! We got 'em!" meanwhile everyone is contently stuck in gridlock. Clownshoes for all!
A danger to their profits.
Just another government-sanctioned monopoly seeing their monopoly profits destroyed by a free market that treats them as damage to route around...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Wouldn't deliberatly causing gridlock in their tantrum be reckless endangerment or manslaughter or whatever the precise british equivalent due to obstructing emergancy services?
So taxi drivers are planning to cause chaos and congestion in protest against Uber. So when you want to get home that afternoon, you won't be able to find a taxi. So you'll use . . . . . .Uber!
If they had any sense, Taxi companies would have made a good smartphone app solution happen instead of being butthurt when someone else does it tighten their business model.
Don't you just love how they present it without bothering to tell us what Uber is, as if we're already supposed to know and/or care?
> any new regulations should not be to protect cabbies, but to protect customers
Nope. Regulations should be to protect the powerless. In this case, the powerless are the individual customer and the individual driver. Both should be protected from Uber.
Tow truck drivers see a 1000% increase in business from towing said taxis blocking traffic and illegal parking.
its no different than any other organized crime operation, someone tries to make a living without giving you your cut you send your goons to lean on them
in the case of business licensing the first level goons are petty bureaucrats who send threatening letters, and if those don't work they send the heavies who carry badges as a sign of their "legitimate" authority
If you can't attract enough customers to stay in business without getting the government to ban your competition, then fuck you: you should be out of business.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If people can't get a cab, they'll find another mode of transportation. That's not the smartest form of marketing ... but then I guess we're talking about cab drivers, after all.
My problem with Uber is that they don't pay its cabdrivers when they dont have any customer. If a cab driver get sick she or he will not get paid. Right now there are two few drivers for the market but when everything settles (more Uber-like companies) most taxi drivers will not get payd work thier hours they put in. Uber will still make money since it does not cost much extra to have 1000 cars or 10000 cars. But when there are two many cars for the market workers will suffer greatly.
How will the people there get to their dental appointments?
A lot of US comments on here shouting "free market" (because they have apparently given up on society), with little understanding of the UK context. London has long had problems with violent crimes around unlicensed taxis, including rape. Licensed cabs have to meet expensive criteria, checking, and pay to be licensed, in return the law prohibits unlicensed private car metering. Understand why the licensed taxi drivers feel short changed now?
Also - how does submitting bad feedback on a website prevent rape in unlicensed car hire? (A suggestion from another poster here).
If the licensing authority is not pursuing the law, and metering in private cars is illegal in London for good reason, yes the black cabs should strike.
If they're worried about loosing jobs to an app, wait until they see the self drive taxis that are coming. Taxis are so expensive in London, they deserve to get competition.
- Both driver and rider can view each other's history / ratings. If a rider doesn't like the driver, they can choose a different car.
- Both driver and rider can see each other's location, in real time, up to the point of pickup.
- Both driver and rider can contact each other either by phone or SMS (I've moved location, I've forgotten a bag / phone, I can't find you).
- Both driver and rider can rate each other after the experience.
- No need for carrying cash, or dealing with post drive transactions -- just hop out, it's all handled.
- Several levels of quality, ranging from eco, black car, and suburban / limo.
Uber provides a safer experience for both driver and rider, with accountability and communication.
If you've never ridden Uber (or similar), it's a vastly superior experience to old fashioned cabs.
When you've been disrupted like this, it's either evolution or extinction.
If the cab companies had their way it would be illegal to drive yourself in the city..
And then there is waze ...
Have all Uber drivers get a London Cab license and have them take the exam. Then you can have uber-blackcabs.
What these drivers are asking for is a special privilege to be a superior class of citizen: To be spared any natural competition.
And what they're doing is not protesting. It's throwing a tantrum.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
It's not like being a legal taxi driver prevents you from being a murderer. Or even just charging illegal fees.
I'm sure that most illegal cabbies are just trying to make a living. The best solution is probably to end the protectionist rackets that limit the numbers of legal taxis.
I don't read AC A human right
it's illegal to make an arrangement with your coworkers so that one of you drives the others to work and you split the costs, because that's an "illegal taxi operation".
Innovate or die.
As usual the established trade is resisting any changes to the model. Why don't they take this moment & implement their own competing system & instead of owning cabs own an app?
But but but this is our lively-hood they tell you, think of the children! -no one said driving a car & knowing London's roads will land you a lifetime job.
We know this all too well, they will used their position and established financial base to throw an army of litigation at it and maybe they'll shut the app down but this is the beginning of the end because it's an eventuality.
So many people drive a 4 seat, 5 passenger vehicle with only themselves or perhaps another person with them. Why not use that?
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
They don't have navigators? Wtf?
Also, in reality, you want the taxi services to be regulated. I've been to coutries where they are not, and the taxis there range from "you will get cheated" to "you will get raped, killed, and robbed". And that's a fact. No way a foreigner can use the local taxis. You free the business completely, competition will drive the prices low (which is a good thing), but the low prices will force the drivers to cheat, steal, and rob, as the only ones making a profit will be the ones who do. And no, i'm not a taxi driver. I hate having to pay the local super high taxi fares, but on the other hand, the service is first class. They are on time when preordered, the cars are nice and clean and safe. The drivers won't rob you, beat you, cheat you, or anything. They actually know their area, they also have navigators in every car, as well as the taxi centrals help. They are not allowed to refuse a drive because they don't feel like going to a direction where they won't find anyone to come back the other way.
I'm a New Yorker who makes frequent use of the yellow cabs here and has had the pleasure of using London cabs.
In NYC, it's basically the taxi's the are licensed. Any yellow cab has to have a medallion and they are expensive... often going for $750k+ USD. Once you have the medallion you can lease/rent it to just about any hack who qualifies for a drivers license.
In London, it's the drivers that are heavily regulated. The tests are notoriously hard and London cabbies either have or acquire neurology that is much more spatially oriented than normal.
The difference may be subtle to most people but it's important. When you get in a cab in NYC, you usually need to be explicit about the route that should be taken. Nefarious types will often take you through Times Square, Union Square, Canal Street or other traffic nightmares to run up the tab. London cabbies pride themselves (at least in my experience) on on knowing every last back road that will get you there that much faster.
So I see their point. They're a group of professionals.... who act like professionals. They've put a lot of time and effort into becoming such, I'd want to protect my turf as well.
I doubt anyone will notice.
Around here the taxi driver won't refuse me a drive simply because he/she doesn't like me. I have no idea why I wouldn't like some driver, as they are all professionals, know where they are going, won't try to cheat you in any way.
I tell them where I am, they find me. If I move I can call again and tell I've moved. If they can't find me I'd have to be basically hiding on purpose, or tel lthem the wrong address.
Why would a driver need to rate me? I don't even want to be rated. All drivers are 4 or 5 star one. Only difference being how much they talk during the trip. The actual service I'm buyin is always 5 star. They know their way around, take the shortest path, try to hurry up a bit is asked, charge according to the tariffs.
Ok, I do need to have cash with me, or some credit/debit card. Or a phone NFC wallet. It's usually not a problem, as I have them with me anyways.
I can ask for a specific type of car when I call a taxi, they'll send one. They do not have limos / suburbans. But nice a nice mercedes or a minivan that can take 8 passengers is available. If I want a limo I call a limo service.
I've never driven Uber, but sounds like the cabs around where you live differ a lot from the ones we have around here. Maybe that's why we don't have Uber here.
What you, and your fellow Americans posting here, seem to forget (or perhaps you do not know?) is that with London black cabs, you already get a clean and well maintained car with a professional driver. On top of that, said driver actually knows his way around, as he had to prove this when he was given his license, and continuously have to prove it again when he is tested on a regular basis. The London black cabs are regulated and every single driver have to adhere to standards in order to keep his/her license.
seems like black cabs should be providing excellent service
This is not a case of cabbies stomping their feet and whining, they just do not take well to uber bypassing the requirements they have to adhere to.
if black cabs service is so much better than ubers, people will surely choose to use black cabs over uber. where's the problem?
really, they just want to use government to stifle competition.
Free marketeers and Randroids, especially those in business are the biggest hypocrites.
It's funny how the most ardent free marketers turn into rent-seekers when they're faced with real competition.
I bet Ayn Rand didn't imagine that her beloved Galtian supermen are actually the real looters and parasites.
Where's the government when you need them??
Not only do the drivers have to pass extensive (and expensive) training and testing, they are also vetted and held to a very high standard in order to obtain and keep their licenses. They KNOW London and how to get around, to a level which I have yet to see any GPS device/app (including Waze) compete with. Requirements Uber are completely bypassing, with the result being an unfair advantage.
what advantage are uber drivers gaining? that they provide subpar service compared to black cab?
So I see their point. They're a group of professionals.... who act like professionals. They've put a lot of time and effort into becoming such, I'd want to protect my turf as well.
if they're so great, consumers will choose to use them without government forcing them to.
The livery companies of london have a long and very powerful history. Not as much livery these days as banking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
They are the keepers of the legal no-mans land that makes up the square mile, the city, as it is called.
adapt and stop whining
And then there is waze ...
I use Waze myself and while it is brilliant, I would still trust a black cab to get there quicker when it involves anything remotely near zone 1.
-kernel picnic-
Thats going to be the "fun" part of this problem.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
We have a serious problem in that anything new always meets strong or even violent resistance without regard to the quality of the new idea or service. We see this with the Tesla cars where conspiracies to stop Tesla abound. And it is true that London is known for good taxi service but even in the US most taxi services are an abomination. Further the scope of such laws could be over reaching. Am I suddenly not free to offer a neighbor $20. to drop me at the airport? I know car dealers that feel that the "Auto Trader" and Ebay should not be allowed to sell cars at all as the dealers feel that they should have the exclusive right to sell cars. They even argue that individual car owners should be prohibited from selling their own cars as only dealers have to pay taxes and meet regulations concerning car sales. The local meat head will often remark that "He has the right to make a living." And therefore he has the right to burn down the competitions buildings or do whatever it takes to control "his area". In short anything new that is a good idea will always have to fight a war just to exist.
Doug Stanhope has a fabulous bit on the streets of London and WWII.
We don't need another minicab service in London, the London taxi is the best taxi service in the world and so are it's drivers and its the envy of the world and has been voted the greatest for years buy travellers as well, TFL need to look after their own and make sure this service does not go into decline otherwise there will be chaos on the streets and then London will be looked down upon.
Having to spend time and huge amounts of money to have the privilege to drive a black cab is enough reason to have no other competition in London. It's TFL that make us go through this tough system to be the best, yet TFL don't want to protect us because it just wants more money from big corporate business, well if it wants a war it's certainly gonna get one, I and the other 25,000 cabbies will bring this capital to a halt and will carry on doing so until those overpaid inept fools at TFL listen.
It sounds like these London Black Cabbys have been pretty much replaced by UPSes. Why does anyone still care about making them memorise every street of London anymore?
Take 2 of them, a few programmers and developers, and improve on current GPS tech to make an app that can navigate through London with the same precision as these cabbys, and update it with traffic conditions constantly.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Nice apropos-of-nothing leftist snark. +5 fedoras.
Fours years dedication and hard work plus nearly £60.000 of my own money invested in doing the knowledge and becoming a licensed London cabby are the real reason why the black cab trade should have the monopoly of London. If people want to drive the public around in the capital, then this is what they should go through as well, it's not just about having the knowledge but it also controls the system and has done successfully for years.
Who the fuck gets to compete against a regulated service without following the regulations? Taxi drivers are independent contractors and compete against each other in a regulated environment. Taxis are regulated, taxed, and often have to pay for permits. Uber and Lyft don't pay for permits, are not paying the same taxes, and are effectively unregulated.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
And then there is waze ...
I use Waze myself and while it is brilliant, I would still trust a black cab to get there quicker when it involves anything remotely near zone 1.
Agree, but consumers might not want to pay more for a faster trip. That should be a choice that they have. The security concerns with private cabs are legitimate, but I think Uber has a decent solution for them. So, if you want to regulate, just require all dispatched cabs to record the identity of their drivers and log each trip before pickup.
That is what you're arguing. First, the places you are referring to are most likely more dangerous to begin with. You have a market where you could actually make a fair comparison, but you ignore it. Are Uber users complaining of dangerous drivers and being cheated? That's not what I read. Uber is effectively an unregulated free market taxi service and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews from its users. Why should they not be allowed to use it because you think it's too dangerous for them?
Second, you have already acknowledged that you are willing to pay more for a safer ride. That's a niche market and companies will fulfill it. Not everyone has as much extra cash to spend on this safer ride and they should be afforded a choice.
If Uber does this, competition will arise and people will use the safer service. There's lots of other online auctions you can go to besides ebay if you don't like their quality.
A strike I would understand, but actively causing traffic congestion seems like a blatant disregard for the very people you're claiming to serve. As we saw with the bridge in NJ, traffic congestion causes real, life-threatening problems and we certainly do not need to be causing it artificially. There's got to be a better way for this organization to make their point.
. They're a group of professionals.... who act like professionals.
First off, "study for a test that's hard" is not "professional." A professional is someone who spends years training in skills specific to their vocation (navigating a city, and driving a passenger car, is not a vocation-specific skill) in order to do it.
Second, calling london cab drivers professionals is a laugh. Fire up youtube and search for "london cyclist attack" and note video after video of cabbies attacking cyclists. If they're such professionals, why do they not understand the rules of the road (that allow the cyclist to be where they are), break the rules themselves, endanger the cyclist, and then attack them?
Please help metamoderate.
No offense, but black cab drivers are the rudest and least helpful of all drivers in London, not to mention to their fare paying customers. Private cab companies employees are far more pleasant to deal with. Which London have you maybe visited once again, I'm guessing not in the UK ahahahaha
Still I do agree with the actual point you are trying to make, that is unvetted/licensed drivers could be dangerous to the public.
I anticipate that the demonstration against TfL's handling of Uber will attract many many thousands of Uber app downloads and cause app store congestion across the metropolis.
I sounds more like the cab drivers are planning to make it more dangerous, not the LTDA
What are the actual words of the law?
A smart phone is not a taxi meter, and an Uber driver is not driving a taxi, so Uber is not a taxi service.
"...I anticipate that the demonstration against TfL's handling of Uber will attract many many thousands of cabs and cause severe chaos, congestion and confusion across the metropolis...."
And I anticipate, nay suggest, that the city should alert the towing truck services. I'm sure they will love the income boost from removing taxi cabs that are blocking the roads. :-)
http://about.me/jimm.pratt