Air Force Prepares to Dismantle HAARP

First time accepted submitter registrations_suck (1075251) writes in with news about the dismantling of the HAARP project. The U.S. Air Force gave official notice to Congress Wednesday that it intends to dismantle the $300 million High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program in Gakona this summer. The shutdown of HAARP, a project created by the late Sen. Ted Stevens when he wielded great control over the U.S. defense budget, will start after a final research experiment takes place in mid-June, the Air Force said in a letter to Congress Tuesday. While the University of Alaska has expressed interest in taking over the research site, which is off the Tok Cutoff, in an area where black spruce was cleared a quarter-century ago for the Air Force Backscatter radar project that was never completed. But the school has not volunteered to pay $5 million a year to run HAARP. Responding to questions from Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski during a Senate hearing Wednesday, David Walker, deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force for Science, Technology and Engineering, said this is 'not an area that we have any need for in the future' and it would not be a good use of Air Force research funds to keep HAARP going. 'We're moving on to other ways of managing the ionosphere, which the HAARP was really designed to do,' he said. 'To inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it. But that work has been completed.' Comments of that sort have given rise to endless conspiracy theories, portraying HAARP as a super weapon capable of mind control or weather control, with enough juice to trigger hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes."

Comments

Oh no

[oobayly]

What excuse will all the conspiracy theory lunatics use to explain rainbows now?

Warning - watching these may cause severe face-palming
The 2nd one is my favourite, a rainbow from a sprinkler - the horror.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Now they're taking away rainbows?? This administration has gone too far.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

at least they are not taking away out beloved chemtrails ..

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be ponies and unicorns next!

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking rainbows after it rains

Re:Oh no

[jythie]

Oh that is easy, they will simply claim that HAARP was never dismantled, it was just moved to a dark site, or the moon.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

What excuse will all the conspiracy theory lunatics use to explain rainbows now?

Simple. If you won't believe HAARP was dismantled, you can keep blaming it for everything. Anyway, there is always SGI (Secret Government Installation).

Re:Oh no

[RabidReindeer]

What excuse will all the conspiracy theory lunatics use to explain rainbows now?

Military Unicorns.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

The government already has something better and new-gen in place and nicely hidden. No need for that publicly-visible HAARP now.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

It can't be moved to the moon, since we never reached that far.

Re:Oh no

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Don't worry, my friend, these people won't let them do that!

Re:Oh no

[rasmusbr]

Oh, the government is way beyond HAARP now. Some of the chemtrails that they spew out are probably seeded with quantum nano transmitters that inject negative frequencies directly into the ionosphere...

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Humans never reached that far, but the lizardoid alien overlords will just take the stuff to the moon themselves in their flying saucers.

Re:Oh no

[jythie]

Well, NASA never did, but after we invaded iraq to gain back control of the stargate there we can start shifting things to the moon that way.

Humans are incapable of accomplishing anything, but there is plenty of alien tech to make up for our scientific incompetence.

Re:Oh no

[jd2112]

What excuse will all the conspiracy theory lunatics use to explain rainbows now?

Military Unicorns.

Only North Korea has militarized unicorns.

Re:Oh no

[Ellis D. Tripp]

Well the US better get its ass in gear then, gentlemen!

We can't allow a Unicorn Gap!

Re:Oh no

[bill_mcgonigle]

quantum nano transmitters

I sell a room air filter that removes quantum nano transmitters. $300 special this month - contact me.

Re:Oh no

[sumdumass]

Why would they need to do that? The summery says they have other ways to "manage" the ionosphere now.

Re:Oh no

[ColdWetDog]

Yeah, the new stuff is smaller. And they managed to put it on the Internet so it doesn't have be located way the hell out there in Alaska. That's what Ms. Murkowski's staffer told her anyway.

Re:Oh no

[omnichad]

I'm just wondering what the heck iAnnotates in our water supply
What the heck is in our oxygen supply
That creates a rainbow effect in sprinklers?
What is oozing out of our ground
That allows this type of effect to happen?
It's not just around our sun and our moon any more
Everywhere we look, the visible spectrum, is rainbows
This cannot be natural
We as a nation have got to ask ourselves
What the hell is going on?
What is oozing out of our ground?

I love it. One of my favorites of all time.

Re:Oh no

[omnichad]

Everyone's heard of the dark site of the moon. It won't be a secret for long.

Re:Oh no

[benjfowler]

Thanks, Obama.

Re:Oh no

[LoRdTAW]

Com on, this is N. Korea we are talking about. They are nothing more than spray painted horses with a fake horn screwed to their skulls.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you think we dropped "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

Re: Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Ponies will be bred and SCHLAUGHTERED

Re:Oh no

[natophonic]

Of course, the whole point of a Military Unicorn is lost, if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world!?

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

what brand of tin foil do you use in it?

Re:Oh no

[jerel]

Sure would like to git me some of them quantum nano-thingys and their negative frequencies! (Um. uh, just whut is a negative frequency?)

Re:Oh no

[jerel]

Don't matter just so long as it's not made in China! That kind lets through all the gummint stuff and filters out the rest!

Re:Oh no

[jerel]

Dangerous levels of dihydrogen monoxide! The government needs to protect us! Billions of dollars spent by this industry to make sure every home has a constant supply, exposing our children in ways that sometimes end in death! Read more here: http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html You have been warned!!

Re:Oh no

[rasmusbr]

Sure would like to git me some of them quantum nano-thingys and their negative frequencies! (Um. uh, just whut is a negative frequency?)

Well, the government and the scientific establishment want you to think that it's merely a mathematical concept used in frequency analysis...

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

If you like your rainbow, you can keep it.

Re:Oh no

[AstroSurf]

> just moved to a dark site

And they'll be right! Actually, "other ways to manage" probably means they've found a way to dramatically cost-reduce (and miniaturize) the ionosphere-controlling device. Something to fit on one of the big ships. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Terrible summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Sage for an a summary which blabs on and on and on without explaining what HARP is.

I don't care that "Lisa Murkowski during a Senate hearing Wednesday, David Walker, deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force for Science, Technology and Engineering"

Learn some editing skills and tell me what it is!

Re:Terrible summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Project HARP. For the conspiracy theorists, Gerald Bull, who was involved in this was assassinated in 1990, most likely due to his helping Saddam Hussein improve scud missile nose-cone aerodynamics as part of Project Babylon.

Oh, you mean HAARP?

Re:Terrible summary

[Anonymous Coward]

From the summary:

High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

They even had a link....

Re:Terrible summary

[Algae_94]

I think he meant HARTZ flea dip.

Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

It is possible to control the weather through manipulating the ionosphere. Cloud seeding is certainly done, China are quite open about it but in the west it's considered a conspiracy theory

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Cloud seeding is done, but it doesn't do anything.

Re:Weather control

[Sockatume]

Cloud seeding doesn't manipulate the ionosphere.

Re:Weather control

[chill]

No, it isn't. Weather occurs in the troposphere, the layer of the atmosphere closest to the earth, extending up to between 7 - 20 km above ground level. About 80% of the mass of the atmosphere is here.

The ionosphere is about 0.1% of the mass of the atmosphere, starting from about 90 km above ground level and continuing to between 500 - 1,000 km above ground level.

Educate yourself a little. Science is a beautiful thing.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Those two statements were supposed to be seperate...

Cloud seeding does not take place in the ionosphere, but it is done and does work

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification

Manipulation of the ionosphere can indeed control weather

http://weatherwarfare.worldatwar.info/2013/11/can-facilities-like-haarp-be-used-to-manipulate-the-weather/

Perhaps if you used alternative mediums other than YouTube cartoons to learn from you would know about this already :p

Re:Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Does no one question why "we" (and it's never really "we", it's a small group with the self-assumed divine right of kings who always make these decisions) need to control and manipulate the ionosphere. Hasn't it been doing well enough by itself for, say maybe about 4.5 billion years?

Re:Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Because that question has already been answered. Scientists want to control a small slice of the ionosphere to better understand basic plasma physics, the ionosphere itself, and the magnetosphere. Exciting part of the ionosphere is like plucking the string on a guitar, it helps you to learn what sounds it makes and how waves propagate through it. The military wanted to control it for communication and radar purposes and to better understand using the ionosphere to reflect radio waves, without being subject to problems from daily and sun related variations in the ionosphere.

Re:Weather control

[jtnix]

Excellent! You've established that the ionosphere is higher than the troposphere where the weather develops and occurs.

Now, imagine think of the ionosphere as the lens between the sun and the earth and HAARP as a tool to control the focal point of this lens.

Think about that for more than a minute, you're a smart cracker!

Re: Weather control

[Sockatume]

Weatherwarfare dot worldatwar dot info? Seems legit.

Re: Weather control

[Sockatume]

You understand that the people that blog is citing as evidence for the conspiracy theory, are the originators of the conspiracy theory, yes?

Re: Weather control

[caveqat101]

Yes, its called geo-engeering. World modification. But, what if they make a mistake? Whereto you fall back to? Just a question? So why aren't they supporting off world missions by humans?

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is rather distinct from anything on the scale of "World modification" as something as large and power hungry as HAARP only modified a tiny volume of the ionosphere. The idea wasn't to make the whole ionosphere behave in a convenient way, but to make a small patch just large enough to reflect a targeted communication or radar beam. What if they make a mistake? That is like asking what if a kid splashing at a beach on a reservoir takes out the dam that is holding back that reservoir.

Re:Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

So when HAARP manipulates a ~10 km wide, couple meter thick section of the ionosphere, how much focusing would be needed to change local weather? The sun was already going to bathe that area in light, and even being able to change the ionosphere into something with the index of refraction of glass would still be limited to shifting a few percent of the light by a couple dozen meters. But you would also be able to see that with the naked eye, you would be able to see stars moved if used at night. In reality the effects on the ionosphere are much, much subtler than that.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps, but the science behind it is reasonable. Look a couple of posts down, someone summarised it in a couple of sentences... About the ionosphere acting as a lens

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the ionosphere acting like a lens is stupid, as also pointed out, because even if you magically put a glass lens up there, you could not get enough convergence to actually make any difference over any reasonable size, not to mention the really limited range and area of effect that HAARP has that is far short of the effects of a glass lens.

Re:Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm ... so how, excatly, do you affect the wavefront propogation of IR and optical bands with HAARP? Sorry, physics trumps bullshit conspiracy theories.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't the whole climate change thing based on runaway positive feedbacks? A small amount of CO2 leads to large amounts of H20 leads to the oceans evaporating etc. If that is true, who is to say what inputting small amounts of energy into the ionosphere could do?

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

But what feedback mechanism though, specifically one not already swapped by natural phenomena? The ionosphere continuously receives many GW of power input from the Sun, as compared to HAARP's 3.5 MW, used intermittently and not often at full power. The power from the sun can vary by over 100 GW randomly depending on solar activity too. Additionally, HAARP only targets an area of ~ten kilometers in diameter.

At least with the greenhouse effect, solar irradiation in the bands relevant to the surface and lower atmosphere doesn't vary by a factor of 100, and deals with an effect that covers the entire Earth.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not know enough about the ionosphere to propose a mechanism. My position is only that if the earth's atmosphere can be drastically altered by relatively small modifications, we should consider whether other relatively small modifications could also lead to unintended consequences.

I don't disagree with your argument that this seems unlikely given what is known, but as is usual it is the unknown that causes trouble. The possible existence of positive feedbacks makes it difficult to judge when an influence is swamped by natural phenomena. If you are aware of any literature that has investigated possible feedback mechanisms with regards to HAARP (and dismissed them) I would be glad to read it. If this literature does not exist, I would find that troubling.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

Same AC. How much would you say a project like HAARP would need to be scaled up before we should start worrying?

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

A couple of orders of magnitude, and it could start to rival the influence of the sun on a quite day over a small, small area. There would still be the question of how much of an effect that would have on local weather, let alone anything global. A couple more orders of magnitude, and maybe rival the sun on an active day in a small area, and a couple more orders of magnitude above that and you can maybe start getting to global levels on a quite day... assuming there is any positive feedback system or way for the Earth to retain effects and not just deal with them like any much larger blips and variations from the Sun.

Re: Weather control

[Anonymous Coward]

can be drastically altered by relatively small modifications,

"Small" modifications that are on a global scale and effectively cumulative on the relevant time scales. You would need not only a mechanism sensitive to what they are doing distinct from the thousand times greater variations in the influence of the Sun, but possibly some mechanism that allows it accumulate while reaching father out than the little test patch they operate on.

Re:Weather control

[kimvette]

> No, it isn't. Weather occurs in the troposphere [windows2universe.org], the layer of the atmosphere closest to the earth, extending up to between 7 - 20 km above ground level. About 80% of the mass of the atmosphere is here.

That's what they want you to think.
*adjusts tinfoil hat* ;)

It's saddening that people really think this is a "death ray" or some other BS. It's the same sort of person who thinks that contrails = chemtrails, that the oil industry has bought patents to cars that "run on water" to keep them secret (um, patents are publicly disclosed, people!) and murdered the inventors, and that magnet motors are practical "free energy" sources rather than just an interesting toy. I have a few friends who think these things and no amount of science-based evidence will convince them otherwise. I'm apparently "closed minded" because I like the scientific method.

This doesn't add up...

[Anonymous Coward]

"dismantle the $300 million HAARP program" and "$5 million a year to run HAARP." Has the army been overcharging Congress?

Re:This doesn't add up...

[roger_that]

No, that would be the Air Force in this case. :)
I think the research part is what is costing $300 Million; just to maintain the grounds/buildings would most likely be the $5 million per year.

Re:This doesn't add up...

[rioki]

And in the case of a University, the labor is mostly free. Free as in grad and postgrad students working there.

Re:This doesn't add up...

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of the research there is already done by university teams, including grad students. I would guess either they are already factored into that cost, or that the cost is for operations and maintenance of equipment, which can be more or less suited to grad students depending on the program (helps if located physically at a university though).

Re:This doesn't add up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Development of the site, including erecting the antenna field, installing generators, building roads, writing the control software, building the custom radios, everything from unloading the first truck to now has cost around $300 million. Current "value" of the facility is in the $50-$60 million neighborhood.

The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Trax3001BBS]

About time...

I've always thought with all the evidence of HAARP damaging the Whales many heredity traits, they should of been shut down a very long time ago.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, those must be really high flying whales. When they fall from up there, it would very likely be very damaging.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Ambitwistor]

And wow! Hey! Whatâ(TM)s this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like ⦠ow ⦠ound ⦠round ⦠ground! Thatâ(TM)s it! Thatâ(TM)s a good name â" ground!

I wonder if it will be friends with me?

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[dcw3]

Too many idiots posting these days to tell if you're being silly, or one of them.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Brett Buck]

That's a real problem, and I am not kidding.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Xaedalus]

I almost shit myself laughing when I read this--thank you, sir, thank you :-)

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Agent0013]

If that truly is a new quote for you, then you need to read "The Hichhiker's Guide to the Universe". You will be shitting yourself all the way through.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[kimvette]

Meanwhile:

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

Re:The silence for the Whales will be deafening

[Trax3001BBS]

I almost shit myself laughing when I read this--thank you, sir, thank you :-)

I'm glad I could add some humor to your day, but yes I got the acronym wrong, and with such authority :)

liars touts & shills oh my

[Anonymous Coward]

sell it to the kids? http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weather+manipulation+wmd+starvation

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Sockatume]

"Slightly different" in this case being the difference between a large outdoor facility countless miles away in Alaska, and literally clamping a mains-powered instrument to the side of your skull.

HAARP II

[Anonymous Coward]

is obviously going online. The first was obviously drawing too much attention.

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[jythie]

That tends to be one of the problems with a lot of the conspiracy theory and alternative tech people, they take a nugget of something real and stretch it to illogical extremes.

Brought to you by CURE

[Chas]

Shows how slow our government is on these things.

After the , it ONLY took the government 30 years to shut down?

Way to go Remo!

Cameras are too easy to use now

[Viol8]

Even conspiracy theory morons can figure them out and this is the result. There should be a mandatory IQ test before anyone is allowed to use any technology or access the internet.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you'll have to find something else to do then, as your comment indicates you'll most likely fail the mandatory IQ test! Intelligent people are very well aware that the "conspiracy theory" label was coined and used to denigrate so as to misdirect the masses from the truth regarding the Kennedy assassination, and was found so effective that it has been in constant use to provide misdirection and cover for more recent conspiracies. For example, wouldn't the use of secretive government online forum shills be a conspiracy to manipulate the public mind? While there are some pretty ridiculous theories out there, generally the conspiracies given the most flack are the ones needing careful investigation. Consider the ratio of the black budget to the overt economy, and try to square that with your world view's lack of conspiratorial operations. I consider anyone who all too easily slings "conspiracy theorist" as an epithet (and that includes you, Sunstein!) to be a "useful idiot' or someone most likely antithetical to the common good.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[ColdWetDog]

Especially YouTube.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Anonymous Coward]

So because the conspiracy theory label gets misused or maliciously used in some cases, that means every thing labeled a conspiracy theory is a misdirection from the truth? There are some actual theories about conspiracies out there that don't get the "conspiracy theory" label and issues when significant evidence comes forward, and there are other cases where they are accepted as true but suffer a much worse fate: apathy. But you still have people out there with mental issues, or people who learned things the wrong way and assembled a jumbled picture in their head while becoming emotionally attached. Even if a large number of such theories were true, the vast majority would not be since they contradict each other in regards to the same event.

Then you get to people who argue for a conspiracy for a project I've actually worked on before (not HAARP though)... which shows a fundamental misunderstanding and involves labeling pictures of equipment with functions they cannot do. Yeah, I'll use the conspiracy theory label in a negative sense then, as because no amount of evidence will convince some people otherwise (they turn down open house offers to come see labs and equipment in person...) and at some point it is a matter of pointing that out to third parties.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Viol8]

Uh huh. Listen , why not go off and have a beer with your loser buddies and argue about how they faked the moon landings from behind the grassy knoll.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Jawnn]

Even conspiracy theory morons can figure them out and this is the result. There should be a mandatory IQ test before anyone is allowed to use any technology or access the internet.

Eh... maybe before they're allowed to post anything. I'm for free speech and all, but at some point, it's just noise. Bring me reasoned dissent all day long but spare me the videos of enclosed rail cars designed for hauling new automobiles that speculate on some dark government conspiracy and "FEMA prison trains".

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Anonymous Coward]

"people who learned things the wrong way and assembled a jumbled picture in their head while becoming emotionally attached"

Ah, grad school.

Re:Cameras are too easy to use now

[Mashiki]

Hey now, I've played Deus Ex. We all know that those secret camps are real, and they're called RX-84. /conspiracy nut mode

Obama next move

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a blatant show of Obama's power. They have perfected mind control, and moved HAARP in preparation for the up coming election. Obama plans to eliminate the US currency, then eliminate term limits so he can be President for life. You the sheeple accept the HAARP cover story, not realizing the sinister plans set into motion.

Re:Obama next move

[wulfhere]

Slashdot needs a +1 Satire mod.

But...without it...

[Anonymous Coward]

How are the chem trails going to get activated to put holograms in the sky, and to sterilize the population by the new world order now?

The idiot in the video is a democrat, read the tex

[raymorris]

Read the text in the rainbow video. The idiot blames energy companies for what they're pumping into the ground. That's precisely the same scare-mongering OBAMA does, though with his speechwriters and teleprompter he sounds about 2% more intelligent when he says it.

will alaska still be there?

[Anonymous Coward]

virgin islands? http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weather+manipulation+wmd+haarp+locations san diego?

What happened to HAARP being essential?

[mysidia]

Due to their broadcasting of magnetometer data and other measurements used by military and civillians throughout the world ?

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[Required Snark]

You don't understand the immense inertia of political pork. To put it in perspective, political pork has is the organizational equivalent of neutronium. One it comes into existence and starts moving, it is almost impossible to stop.

Remember that this was the turf of Alaska US Senator Ted Stevens. He was the longest serving Republican Senator in US history, being in the senate from 1978 to 2008. He died in a plane crash in 2010. He was also involved with the infamous freeway to nowhere.

That's why HAARP lasted so long. Even dieing is not sufficient grounds for ending a major pork event. A big time pork wrangler has to be gone and in the ground for a few years before anyone is willing to interfere with with the money flow. (Note: this is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. The "Big Dig" in Boston was a monument to the pork prowess of Ted Kennedy.)

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[dcw3]

Minor correction, it was the bridge, not highway. And, according to wikipedia, some are still pushing for it...sigh.

Funding for the "Bridge to Nowhere" has continued as of March 2, 2011, in the passing of H.R. 662: Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2011[4][5][6] by the House of Representatives.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[ColdWetDog]

There is a rumor up here in Alaska that suggests one of the reasons they want to shut down HAARP and a few other expensive but useless projects is to funnel money into the Ted Stevens Resurrection Effort. Initial experiments were hopeful: They scraped some stuff off the crash site and managed to grow a bunch of confused mosquitos and one pissed off moose. Then the funding ran out.

Life here has just not been the same since Uncle Teddy left us.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[ColdWetDog]

And to be a bit pedantic, Stevens was involved in a bunch of 'things to nowhere'. Bridges, roads, airports, train tracks, more roads and a couple of random military installations. Of course, in Alaska, it's pretty easy to make things that go to various bits of nowhere since there is an enormous amount of nowhere just about everywhere.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[flappinbooger]

Due to their broadcasting of magnetometer data and other measurements used by military and
civillians throughout the world ?

They have something better now. The conspiracy minded folks should be chiming in here and saying the same thing.

They have something better. My guess is that they are using quantum entanglement communication tech for long range covert comms.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

Having Ted back, that would be awesome. "The Internet isn't a truck, it's a series of
BRAIIIIINNNNNNSSSSSS!"

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[flyingfsck]

Wow man, yeah. Consider that birds also use the magnetometer data to navigate, just think what havoc can be caused by altering bird migration patterns this way.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[flyingfsck]

The basic problem is that in Alaska, *every* road goes nowhere, it is not just that one bridge.

Re:What happened to HAARP being essential?

[radarskiy]

There was a bridge and an approach highway. The money for the bridge was re-assignable, so it was used for another project. The money for the highway could not be used for another project, so it was built anyway rather than give up the money.

Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen how many cellphone towers are out there ? HAARP is no longer cost effective to manipulate human behavior. The scattered microwave signal can be broadcasted with lower power with the cell phone tower infrastructure. HAARP had many other uses. It's first test was to see if the ionosphere could be charged artificially instead of waiting for the sun to do it. They were successful but it took a lot of energy. Next test... microwave scatter radiation to manipulate human behavior. The affect was stumbled upon by accident, much in the same way the microwave oven was invented. Sometimes I wonder if some of the senseless violence we that occurs... such as Sandy Point and other shootings, is influenced by tests like this.

Re:Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[Anonymous Coward]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

In the Wiki article, the claim that it is 'open research' meaning the public can find out from public records, including Scientific Journals what is being conducted. Several Universities are involved, it is open [I believe once a year] to the public to tour.

However it is as open as they make it seem, not when compared to other federally ran projects, Jesse Ventura tried to get access to the site and was denied. However Scientists domestic or foreign, even leaders or politicians do not need security clearances to enter the facility. But it would appear you have to file paper work in order to get approval to visit the site, if not and you show up you can be 'turned away' from entering.

I'm not buying into these theories, but there is some sort of classified status with some of the experiments, because of scientists/military findings. And it would appear this isn't the end of this, other countries also have HAARP type projects. And the Wiki article also mentions that this could be applied to a mobile unit.

Re:Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[Anonymous Coward]

However it is as open as they make it seem, not when compared to other federally ran projects, Jesse Ventura tried to get access to the site and was denied. However Scientists domestic or foreign, even leaders or politicians do not need security clearances to enter the facility. But it would appear you have to file paper work in order to get approval to visit the site, if not and you show up you can be 'turned away' from entering.

Or you could just show up on an open house day...

Re:Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[Sockatume]

Being turned away at the gate because you turned up without any paperwork would be pretty normal procedure at any laboratory, public or private; they don't just let strangers in to wander around you know.

Re:Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[jandrese]

So you have to have a legitimate reason to be let in there, and they won't let random crazy people without documentation wander the facilities? Must be a military conspiracy.

Re:Truth is HAARP is no longer needed

[david_thornley]

Jesse Ventura is not a random crazy person. He's a special crazy person (and didn't make a bad governor of Minnesota, either, particularly compared with some of the ones we've had recently).

Project done?

[SJ]

If the military don't want something any more, it usually means 1 of 3 things.

- 1. They are no longer interested as they have something better.
- 2. They have finished their research and have succeeded in weaponising/miniaturising it.
- 3. The people that set it up and were milking the cash have all gone and the new guys can't work out what it does or how it works any more.

Re:Project done?

[Ambitwistor]

Or:

- 4. Didn't turn out to be all that useful for routine military applications, despite earlier hopes.

Re:Project done?

[hubie]

I disagree with your overly-pessimistic comments.

1. Perhaps, but more likely because this is basic research it also can simply have shown to have not panned out.

2. For research at this level, it is never really "finished." There are always avenues to explore and interesting things to look into. The hard part is convincing a funding agency to let you go down those rat holes. The leap between basic research and "weaponizing" is bigger than the leap between basic research and commercializing. In other words, it happens very rarely.

3. I would like to see you provide some examples of this, particularly if you are suggesting this is so common as to happen regularly.

There are many things imposed upon the DoD that they do not want, but Congress inserts them via pork. Stevens was probably the best example of the worst part of the pork barrel process. He probably sent more money to Alaska than Byrd did to West Virginia (remember "the bridge to nowhere"? That was a tiny drop in the Stevens pork money ocean). One example off the top of my head, I recall years ago that he tried to have a NSF polar monitoring station (remember, this is supposed to be in the polar regions) moved to Alaska because it is cold there too. You can easily google major weapons programs the DoD doesn't want, but can't cancel because of pork.

The Air Force isn't going to spend their limited R&D funding on something that was set up with pork money unless it actually turns out to show that it has value (pork doesn't necessarily mean the idea is bad, but more often than not if the idea was good enough to stand up to peer review and other criticism, it would get funding via some legitimate channel).

Re:Project done?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or this plus they were supporting mostly civilian research that was unrelated to any direct military use, so the small amount of unsuccessful or limited practicality military research was not enough to justify a much larger program of basic research.

Re:Project done?

[Ogive17]

You forgot one

4. It was a waste of time and money from the beginning and the sponsoring politician is now dead

Re:Project done?

[Chris Mattern]

4. It was a waste of time and money from the beginning and the sponsoring politician is now dead

What gets me is that Stevens has been dead for *four years* and only now are they finally able to close this boondoggle up.

Re:Project done?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's part of three, with the milking of the cash being slightly indirect.

Re:Project done?

[dcw3]

You missed one other important one.
4. It was forced upon them by Congress.

Simple example of this is that nearly all branches of the service have bases or forts in every state. Is it necessary for the defense of the nation? Hell no. Is it necessary for each state to get it's "share" of the business? Obviously.

Re:Project done?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to call BS on this.

Are you implying that navy bases in Nebraska and Kansas aren't needed? Pshaw!

Re:Project done?

[Anonymous Coward]

4 (not useful) is the cover story for 3 (guys milkign it wandered off/died of old age)

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[andydread]

your amygdala large much?

typical

[Anonymous Coward]

no matter what conspiracy turns out to be true it seems they always have to attach fringe theories like mind control to the subject so researchers are not only still considered wrong but still considered nut jobs as well.

Re:typical

[Anonymous Coward]

Chun let his man blow it up. Everything else is according to Chun's plan.

Re:typical

[Sockatume]

HAARP isn't a conspiracy theory; its existence, functioning and purpose were never secret. (No doubt the military had its own applications for the results, of course.) The idea that HAARP is responsible for mind control is a conspiracy theory.

Not true! Obama extended HARP!

[Anonymous Coward]

So say three or four friendly emails from such wonderful people that I get every hour.

The internet is a great place to help each other! I heard about a poor Nigerian prince who was having some troubles, so I sent him a bit of cash. He says he's going to reward me for helping him. I can't wait!

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[rioki]

Mind control, huh? Can you point me towards anything that resembles mind control, just a tiny bit? I don't want something where they stimulated a region of the brain and the subject felt pain or pleasure. You know mind control as in the subject does something specific without noticing / without control. Even the mind reading is far far from any piratical application.

What the HAARP is

[Anonymous Coward]

From articles, over the horizon ground penetrating radar that could fond command and control bunkers. Similar configurations known to have been used as radar arrays, communications arrays - signals can be bounced off the ionosphere. Possibly to study particle beam guidance using plasma lens effect, or even interestingly as a type of Tesla death ray device which used powered towers to generate an energy wave whose frequency wave would generate between the ionosphere and the ground. As for chem trails, just think contrails, the military also dump fuel from the wingtips before landings, and dumping of septic, perhaps. The internet is creating a new phenomenon around folk legends because it grantees eyes on u tube and revenue from adds. U tube drives this by serving up this drivel and squeezing out a lot of quality content in the race for the bottom dollar.

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Sockatume]

Well obviously under your very limited definition of "resembles mind control", this doesn't count. My point is that even the best way we have of manipulating the brain "remotely" - transcranial magnetic stimulation - involves wiring something into the mains and pressing it against your skull. Not firing a bunch of radio waves at the upper atmosphere.

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[ColdWetDog]

Mind control, huh? Can you point me towards anything that resembles mind control, just a tiny bit?

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

My smartphone is more powerful than HAARP anyways

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next for the tin foil hat brigade? ...

#badbios .. duh nuh nuuuuuuh!

What does this mean?

[kilfarsnar]

'We're moving on to other ways of managing the ionosphere, which the HAARP was really designed to do,' he said. 'To inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it. But that work has been completed.' Comments of that sort have given rise to endless conspiracy theories, portraying HAARP as a super weapon capable of mind control or weather control, with enough juice to trigger hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes."

So, what does that statement mean then? In what ways are we "managing" the ionosphere and for what purposes? I have been down quiet a number of conspiracy rabbit holes, and this one never really grabbed me. It's long on speculation and suspicion but short on actual reasons for thinking HAARP is used for no-good. But I agree, when people make comments like this, it makes me wonder what it is used for.

Does anyone here know how and for what purposes we manage the ionosphere?

Re:What does this mean?

[LWATCDR]

"Does anyone here know how and for what purposes we manage the ionosphere?"

Yes but if they told you they would have to kill you.....

Actually it is simple, RF propagation.
For communications, sigint, comint, and radar. Yes the radar would have to use lower bands than the typical microwave but HF and even VHF radar is nothing new and is returning to popularity thanks to stealth.

Re:What does this mean?

[iggymanz]

well known to hams, and those who listen to shortwave, and those who try to listen to stations far away that normally can't be heard (used to be called DXers, maybe they still are) the ionospheres properties change by day and night, by seasons, by geomagnetic and solar activity.

HAARP explored those changes and propagation, and also changes by injecting RF into ionsphere (on a tiny, tiny scale compared to natural forces)

Re:What does this mean?

[kilfarsnar]

Ah, interesting. Do you mean they bounce such signals off the ionosphere? If so, how does that require management of the ionosphere?

Re:What does this mean?

[bemenaker]

http://www.nrl.navy.mil/resear... http://www.nrl.navy.mil/search... http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/... HAARP was used for all kinds of testing related to the ionosphere. Looks like the Navy's initial interest was trying to use the ionosphere to send messages to submarines.

Re:What does this mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bounce signals off of it.... but more importantly inject signals into and let it carry them around the planet like a big giant network surrounding the planet. And if anybody else tries using it as a communications medium, figure out how to intercept their stuff and possibly also sabotage their use of it as well.

Re:What does this mean?

[LWATCDR]

How well it bounces depends on the state of the ionosphere. When it is in the right state even signals that do not usually bounce off it will. In a different state next to nothing will bounce off it. So in theory if you wanted to detect an incoming attack from over the horizon then you might want to get tine ionosphere in the right state to have your radar work.

Re:What does this mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen to shortwave sometime, and you'll notice a lot of fading, garbling, even meteor trail signals. It's chaotic and uncontrollable, unless...hey, send a megawatt up there, it ionizes a nice uniform layer, it's like a smooth mirror. Bounce your VLF signals off it to wherever your subs are, or your HF signals to the battlefield, was the theory. ...Um, well, turns out it kinda sucks for that, and there are better ways to do that (like satellites with high bandwidth signals, or blue lasers to reach into the ocean). But it's a pork project, so very hard to kill.
Disclaimer: I worked for the Air Force Research Lab for many years.

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[jeffmflanagan]

When you post something insane, don't expect people to spend a lot of time on you. The only asshole here is you.

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[dwpro]

Ignoring the known effects of certain drugs, there is more than I expected: specifically with toxoplasmosis and increased risk of car accidents for humans. Mind control is a fact for some insects and rodents, how much more exists is an interesting question. This entertaining talk goes into it a good deal.

https://www.ted.com/talks/ed_y...

SOME

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of the theories are unproven and even outlandish, but some have been proven to be facts.

The ability to transmit and receive signals anywhere in the world, The ability to alter weather patterns by influence on the ionosphere, etc. etc.

americans are fucking with weather

[Anonymous Coward]

oh joy this wont end well

Seek

[Anonymous Coward]

help

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Ellis D. Tripp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

Well, a person from Alaska controlled my mind for a while back in 2008, not that I was swayed over to her cause. But it was definitely on my mind for months at a stretch. "You've got to be kidding. From a helicopter?"

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

http://everything2.com/title/butt-harp

there are dozens of other HARRPs

[strstr]

HARRP is but one phased array antenna dish. they have dozens of others. HIPAS is another one.

incredibly, HARRP is not unique. in fact the ones built back in the 1960s by the United States have similar resolution and capabilities.. A couple of them are located in Puerto Rico radar field and South America/Brazil if I recall.

What they can do with these things range from knocking planes out of the sky, to mind control, to secret assassinations of targets, to possible building dustification/destruction.

It's not a conspiracy theory it is scientific fact. Whistleblowers within the DOD/CIA/US DOJ back it up (example: Dr. Fred Bell, Dr. Robert Duncan). There have been thousands of targets with these weapons already, people getting killed or living with having their bodies irradiated (works by directing energy either by bouncing it through the ionosphere, down into a persons body, or by using a satellite or radar system to do it). More info @ http://www.obamasweapon.com/

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

This is like the 10th time you've asked that. A bunch of us have already showed you the proof. Why do you keep forgetting it and behaving like it never happened?

Apk doesn't need help

[Anonymous Coward]

K.S. Kyosucky does by evading apk's fair challenge proving it. K.S. needs help. Hed won't get it cuz he used illogical off topic childish ad hominem attacks on apk first and ran like a troll.

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

If I wandered into a programming-language-of-the-week thread and started posting about Syrian refugees, I'd rightly be chastised and modded down. In no way is that the appropriate forum to air my grievances.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that "no reasonable person" would think it's appropriate. So, yeah. Insane. Unable to grasp or understand social norms.

HAARP's Deadly Capabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

Comments of that sort have given rise to endless conspiracy theories, portraying HAARP as a super weapon capable of mind control or weather control, with enough juice to trigger hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes.

Not theories, baby. HAARP's deadly capabilities are very real.

Re:HAARP's Deadly Capabilities

[Zynder]

Pics or it didn't happen bro.

Um why do they want to control the ionosphere?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um why do they want to control the ionosphere? Why not leave it alone? Wouldn't screwing around with it cause some domino effect?

Re:Um why do they want to control the ionosphere?

[Anonymous Coward]

They want to control it just to piss you off. Specifically YOU, AC.

Gerry O'Driscoll said it best...

[Anonymous Coward]

"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact, it's all dark."

thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

for turning a proper debate about the serious real covert uses of HAARP into some stupid shit real researchers scoff at (rainbows)

but this is slashdot, the land of auto-installing malware, a place where the intelligence level has dropped off exponentially.

Re:thanks

[Zynder]

Well please Mr AC, get us back on track. What are all of these "serious real covert uses" you speak of?

Re:Wow, Republicans are stupid

[Zynder]

Is it the 10th time he asked? You are referring to Rioki's post right? If so, he posted exactly this one comment. But even if I'm wrong and he has asked multiple times, I haven't seen anyone post any proof that mind control of any kind is real-- yet. All I have seen are some links about zombie roaches and fungus infested ants. If you play with the definition of "mind control" I guess you could prove anything is mind control; advertising being the first method that pops into my mind (OH WOW IT WORKS!). As a nerd I won't claim mind control is real until I can walk into a place and make a woman drop pants and jump on my lap at my whim. As of right now the only way to accomplish such a task is to throw a high speed trail of greenbacks into the target's face such that all they see is money and not my fat hairy ass. That gets expensive!

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[ArmoredDragon]

That has to be the most innovative musical instrument ever. I wonder what kind of sound it makes.

Re:K. S. Kyosuke gets called out & ran

[Anonymous Coward]

In all fairness Apk is a miserable and insane troll, so no one responds to his hysterical lies and claims of competancy. He is now just a meme, and source of occasional amusement.

Re:Climate Science Defector Forced to Resign

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

That has to be the most innovative musical instrument ever. I wonder what kind of sound it makes.

"Ahhh Ahhh Ah Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Better mind control

[vandamme]

They have the New York Times, MSNBC and Fox News now, so HAARP is redundant.

__________________________
This space intentionally left blank

Apk didn't toss names and run

[Anonymous Coward]

K.S. Kyosuke did http://slashdot.org/comments.p... in the post before apk's completely fair challenge to that big talking do nothing blowhard K.S. Kyosuke.

Re:K. S. Kyosuke gets called out & ran

[Anonymous Coward]

Appears K.S. Kyosuke's illogical ad hominem attacks = "best he's got" (which caused apk to confront him) in response, not very effective, and nothing more.

Terrible summary

[AstroSurf]

You missed the beginning of the sentence, which was "Responding to questions from Alaska Sen." So your reading skills should have told you that the period after "Sen" was abbreviating Senator and not ending the sentence.

And here at Slashdot we all know what HAARP is.

Terrible summary

[Anonymous Coward]

HERE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHf8xC_iZ0Q