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US To Charge Chinese Military Employees With Hacking
jfruh (300774) writes "The U.S. federal government will announce today indictments of several employees of the Chinese military with hacking into computers to steal industrial secrets. The indictments will be the first of their kind against employees of a foreign government. Among the trade secrets allegedly stolen by the accused are information about a nuclear power plant design and a solar panel company's cost and pricing data."
Which just steals secrets from the states, vs corporate secrets and giving them to GM, Apple, General Electric, etc.
The US govt doesn't know the meaning of the word. Sovereignty's another.
To send a message that yo don't spy on us!
thats the best you got???
the pot and the kettle.
Presumably, they will also be arresting NSA officials for their industrial espionage as reported by Snowden?
I mean, they wouldn't be duplicitous or anything, right?
that I can sue the NSA for trying to crack my machines and that the USA will extradite the NSA employees to the UK so that they can be tried in our courts ? Do the people at the USA DOJ understand the meaning of the word ''irony'' ?
This is more outlandish than even something that most political satire writers would have dreamed up.
Does anyone else find this particularly ironic and posturing after the "Cisco Complains To Obama About NSA Adding Spyware To Routers" article earlier?
Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
No doubt, China will cooperate fully in extraditing members of their active military so they can stand trial in the US for following their orders.
Not an Obama hater, but seriously, Russia and now China? Trying to start WWIII on two fronts, in case one backs down? 2016 can't come fast enough.
Not cost and pricing info!! We're doomed! Doomed, I say!
Except for the special cases of crimes against humanity and "non official cover" spies, soldiers and civil servents should not be held criminally liable for doing their jobs or executing policy set by their superiors. Since we don't want our own military and government employees charged with 'crimes' for carrying out their duties, this is a very bad idea because it sets the precedent.
Next up is sanctions against the individuals in question. No more iPhones for you !
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
How will the US enforce them? This will just make our government look weak.
Storm's a'comin'...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Surely they're not going to get any cooperation from the Chinese government on this, but by naming these individuals, they could be limiting the future career choices of those individuals. Want to work at a foreign compa ny? might be tough. Want to travel to the US or country that has extradition with the US? Better think twice about that. Even if you want to work at a local Chinese company, you might not be able to command as high of a salary if you can't get competing offers from foreign companies. A high percentage of well moneyed and educated individuals in China have plans to emigrate to foreign countries with the growing pains China has on the horizon, and some talented folks might be dissuaded from this career path. How this will play out in the real world is hard to say, but If the US didn't think it would have some effect, I don't think they'd do it.
-- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
Now THAT is precious... Since when is spying illegal in the US? They even tamper with other people's hardware, suck up the data of whole countries, deploy MITM attacks on the backbone and more. Really, they should just shut up and at least not become a bunch of spineless hypocrites.
I'm just going to have a heart attack and DIE from that surprise..
This is SO STUPID. If you cannot get your hands on the hackers to arrest them, then why bother with saying anything? Just keep the honey pot in place and keep tracing where the attacks are coming from. Then, when you can get your hands on them it's special rendition time. This tell the public what happened only serves to notify everybody that you got hacked and then trying to take legal action to punish the hackers which has no hope of doing anything says you are inept and clueless too.
You knew I would drink from the glass in front of me, so you switched the glasses so the one in front of me has the poison... BUT, you knew I would think that so CLEARLY the glass in front of you has the poison.... etc.. We are right at the "Never get in a land war in Asia.. " Line being spoken by this administration, only they are not wearing the mask.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Of course, I didn't copy it before I submitted it but it went something like this:
All I can say is:
Go after those f*****s
When China complains that the U.S. is spying also, it behooves them to remember that the U.S. has not (publicly) used what it knows to undermine China. If Snowden's revelations were only a tiny bit true, the NSA has an immense amount of data on the Chinese leadership. Maybe enough (if released publicly) to overthrow them.
Consider this: the NSA recorded and retained EVERY phone conversation made in an ENTIRE country for 30 days. It hacked into Huawei and saw the source code for the routers networking China (no word on if they put in any backdoors). It obtained the e-mails of some of world leaders (sorry Merkel!), showing that even Germany's security, hardly a technological lightweight, wasn't good enough against them. It subverted critical worldwide security standards. It has put in hardware backdoors into critical networking and computer equipment.
Remember that the Internet (as well as computers!) and its supporting technologies (Intel, Cisco, Facebook, Twitter, Apple and, of course, Google and Microsoft) are American inventions. Think of all the traps that may lay in wait for China. Every CPU every packet could be compromised.
What sweetheart deals have been given to the families of China's steering committee? Who are their mistresses and where do they keep their money? What political assassinations (literal) have been executed? There is a digital trail that is there to be followed. The NSA can.
If the Chinese were wise, they would stop attacking US and consider who would lose in an all out cyber-war.
this is industrial espionage, which can sometimes include the act of hacking however is not necessarily hacking in and of itself.
competent is an understatement when referring to a country thats manufactured twenty power plants and is in the process of creating another twenty eight. To think they would express any interest in reactor technology from a country that hasnt built a single reactor in more than 30 years is rather suspect. on the other hand, is entirely reasonable to suggest America is punishing china for failing to source their reactors and plants from say, General Electric. As exposed in cablegate, the US routinely becomes very litigious when faced with reluctant or recalcitrant markets that enjoy domestic manufacture of their heavy industry goods and services, especially in the case nuclear independence.
Good people go to bed earlier.
The NSA was pissed, because all of the Chinese espionage traffic was slowing down their espionage traffic, and with everyone only getting an equal slice of the bandwidth...well Holder had to to something.
For decades now we've treated the Internet like an open house with everybody welcome and everybody allowed to come in and browse. As more and more technologies/designs/secrets have been put into computer systems they've been linked via Intranets within organizations and more importantly, and stupidly, on the Internet in the name of saving time or they've just been exposed because the people who are supposed to protect that information are incompetent idiots. That's the root cause here, not protecting the information that's held in those systems. China and other governments have employed script kiddies and any other tactics like purchased vulnerabilities to dig in, but again it's up to the holders of that data to protect it and to know what kind of enemies they're up against. Industrial espionage is nothing new, it's been around for centuries so why are we all shocked that this is allowed to happen? The secrets of the A-Bomb were leaked out of Los Alamos by sympathetic spies and some were executed for it. The B-29 bomber, a program that cost more than the A-Bomb to develop, was completely reverse engineered from one aircraft that made an emergency landing in the Soviet Union. It was copied right down to the same overheating engine problem that destroyed many of the aircraft. Chinese spies have recently been sent to prison for espionage so why is this suddenly news?
While I'm glad that the US Govt. is trying to do something about all of this it's a bit late and ultimately it's up to all the industries that have technology worth stealing to start taking steps to protect their IP and their confidential information. This also means protecting yourself from the US government because as we all know the NSA is also passively watching everything you do. My suggesting is that there should be sufficient air gaps between your R&D/Competitive information and Intranets/Internet for starters and also start employing a risk mitigation strategy in your data handling practices because chances are your sensitive information is probably already public knowledge somewhere.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
What an interesting way to tax the Chinese without taxing goods. Obama is looking slicker than Willy by the moment.
Personally i always like seeding and feeding the honeypot very valuable information that looks legit but is actual wrong in a way that only lots of time and money spent trying to implement reveals..
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Look who is calling who a thief....
bickerdyke
Do you here that? It's the sound of a billion people on the other side of the world loling.
They'll sue pots and kettles left and right, these big-headed fools.
I am shocked! Shocked! to learn that the Chinese are hacking us! We would never do such a thing!
And just how many US citizens have been ripped off by US Corpers in the 20th century ? A LOT ! How many in the 21st ? A LOT ! And the NSA does for the US Government what ?
Dry eyes in the house Holder; tough tittie.
Hay, old Russian proverb: the enemy of my enemy is my ally ! Look whose is the new Best Friend of US citizens !
Ha ha
FU
@daveaitel All espionage is illegal in the country you do it against.
And since everyone in the world in any country, especially banks (under FACTA) and foreign officials are under US jurisdiction, why not indict?
Either ironic, or a purposeful misdirection. Sadly it seems to becoming a staple of American politics. When you get caught with your hands in the cookie jar, either throw mud at the person who caught you (traitor, endangered national security, etc) or find a similar crime being committed by someone else and parade it through the media to draw attention away from yours.
Its about time.
Though I think its just a ploy for midterm elections so I don't think anything will actually come of it.
IANAL, but I have the impression that many common law countries who do not claim universal jurisdiction are moving towards the universal jurisdiction of civil law countries via an intermediate route of extraterritorial laws, which used to be regarded as suspect. That began with sex tourist legislation (think of the children) and a multiplication of extradition treaties also driven by think of the children inter alia.
evolution theory: that natural selection necessarily favors "cheaters" -- individual organisms determined to game the system -- over "cooperators" who obey the rules
So, is it because of What I said (too sensitive) or the Way (too inflammatory) I said it? Anyway, I submitted it again to try to make it a little less inflammatory (and no, there is nothing in their guidelines about them not posting something if it just plain stupid). Let's see if they post my revised comment (I also fixed some things some other posters brought up).
CHINA SHOULD FEAR US
When China says that the U.S. spies also, they must remember that the U.S. has not (publicly) used what it knows to undermine China. If Snowden is a tiny bit right, the NSA has an immense amount of data on the Chinese leadership. Maybe enough to overthrow them.
Consider this: the NSA recorded and retained EVERY phone call made in an ENTIRE country for 30 days. It hacked into Huawei and saw the source code for the routers networking China (no word on if they put in any backdoors). It obtained the e-mails of some of world leaders (sorry Merkel!), showing that even Germany, hardly a technological lightweight, security wasn't good enough against them. It subverted critical worldwide security standards. It has put in hardware backdoors into critical networking and computer equipment.
Remember that the Internet (as well as modern computers!) and its supporting technologies (Intel, AMD, ARM, Cisco, Facebook, Twitter, Apple and, of course, Google and Microsoft) are Anglo-American creations. Think of all the traps that may lay in wait for China. Every CPU every packet could be spies.
What sweetheart deals have been given to the families of China's steering committee? Who are their mistresses and where do they keep their money? What political assassinations (literal!) have been executed? There is a digital trail that is there to be followed. The NSA can.
If the Chinese are wise, they'll stop attacking US and consider their losses in an all out cyber-war.
Pay no attention to collateral consequences!!!!! These Chinese are the story, move along here, lalalala, do not look at who is not being charged on Wall street and who is my favourite law firms clients. lalalalala fingers in ears. Look at these bad Chinese!!! Squirrel!!!
Chinese official response (in Chinese): http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_ch...
US?
What a bunch of arrogant, hypocritical pricks. The whole NSA SHITHOUSE comes down around their ears, with backdoored network devices and eavesdropping on world leaders - then these paragons of fucking virtue blame "cyber war" on individuals in a foreign government?
Why the fuck don't they haul meglomaniac Keith Alexander off of his fucking starship and drag his sorry arse, along with Elmer Fudd^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Michael Hayden, into the dock?
China has a developed diplomatic culture. This type of International behavior from the US is pure "play at home" propaganda, with the diplomatic effect of a bull in a china-shop, so to speak. Offensive, ignorant, unnecessary, and duplicitous.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
There isn't much that can be done in response to Russia. Military action is out of the question: One does not start an open war with a nuclear superpower lightly. Economic sanctions hurt both sites, and Europe needs Russia as much as Russia needs Europe. They supply the gas that keeps the lights on.
Military action is not out of the question--there is simply some criteria for it that has not been met yet. If Putin believed he could swallow up all of Europe, he would. He's taking Ukraine piecemeal to give his forces time to consolidate power and to make it seem like smaller moves, each of which is more tolerable. At some point he will move beyond Ukraine, and if he moves too far military force or a demonstrated willingness to use it (i.e. U.S. or British boots on the ground in the next likely targets) will be a necessary response.
This seems, on the surface, such a boneheaded, ridiculous move that I have trouble believing that our gubbmint could be *that* stupid. But, what if this move isn't to open a ridiculous Pandora's box with an indictment that's as enforceable as a piece of toilet paper? What if there is something useful here... what would that be?
What if the point of this is to let the Chinese gubbmint know that the USA has detailed information that they don't think we have, by exposing our knowledge of a small bit of it?
One word: Petrobras.
President Obama is a constitutional scholar.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Hello again APK. Off-topic and stalking my posting history because you *really* didn't enjoy your well-deserved public flogging at my hands. Please, come back again when you've something to actually contribute. This website is not here to provide an avenue for your hate mail against other posters when your vagina gets all red and swollen.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
...sorta. Swap China with Albania, and Military Employees with a hapless Homer Simpson and his traitorous foreign exchange student Adil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crepes_of_Wrath
Ok, then tell me again why your list is relevant? Oh that's right, it's because you don't understand basic statistics, got it.
Could you really expect any other reply when this piss-weak 'argument' is all you've got?
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
...publicly. :)
I'm more disposed to this particular view...
You put your secrets on computers which are exposed to the internet? STUPID!
I can't blame the Chinese or the Russians or some school kid in Vallejo, California, for prying in and having a look around, if companies are so damn stupid about erecting barriers between Trade Secrets hosting systems and an outside world. How about building an intranet, encrypting resources, creating VPNs which require a key, employing something like Kerberos to verify some user on a workstation should have access?
All down to laziness and paying the executives too much for their massive blind spots.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Yeah. I'm the 6-Foot, blue-eyed, bi-racial Chinese bloke. Get a nanker on your phelge.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
http://cryptome.org/2014/05/wa...
China has a developed diplomatic culture.
Totally. They have such fine upstanding practices as: o Harvesting organs from Falun Gong practictioners o Feeding melamine to babies o Executing alleged white-collar criminals o Repeatedly faking science
Some of these cases I'm not sure you could call it stealing if the front door was unlocked and open.
Are we still selling hard drives filled with secrets?
News flash, you're both black...