Slashdot Mirror
Four Weeks Without Soap Or Shampoo
An anonymous reader writes "A biotech start-up from Massachusetts has an unusual product: a bottle full of bacteria you're supposed to spray onto your face. The bacteria is Nitrosomonas eutropha, and it's generally harmless. Its main use is that it oxidizes ammonia, and the start-up's researchers suspect it used to commonly live on human skin before we began washing it away with soaps and other cleaners. Such bacteria are an area of heavy research in biology right now. Scientists know that the gut microbiome is important to proper digestion, and they're trying to figure out if an external microbiome can be similarly beneficial to skin. A journalist for the NY Times volunteered to test the product, which involved four straight weeks of no showers, no soap, no shampoo, and no deodorant. The sprayed-on bacteria quickly colonized her skin, along with other known types of bacteria — and hundreds of unknown (but apparently harmless) strains. She reported improvements to her skin and complexion, and described how the bacteria worked to curtail (but not eliminate) the body odor caused by not washing. At the end of the experiment, all of the N. eutropha vanished within three showers."
She sounds hideous.
If you want subjects who don't mind not bathing for four weeks, just go to any CS lab.
I suspect there are slashdot readers who, uh, know someone who takes long spells between showers...
Most people have known this for some time. I haven't washed my face in years. It was the only thing that stopped acne. By "not wash", I mean don't use soap or cleaners. Obviously, some shampoo trickles down on it and I rinse with water each day.
Hair can be handled the same way if you have naturally dry or frizzy hair.
Captcha: untidy
Scientists know that the gut microbiome is important to proper digestion
Gut bacteria is more than proper digestion, it's a second mind.
It's interesting as well that one of the most important parts of a cell are the mitochondria, which by all rights are their own separate critter that set up a successful house in just about everything alive.
What a menagerie.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
A 4 week test on something related to skin and they used a female journalist? Could by chance her skin complexion improved because of her menstrual cycle? There's about a 75% chance that she wasn't coming off of her period right before application so of course she probably noticed improvements to her skin, especially her face, over a 4 week test.
I think that these bacteria like something about baking soda. When I started adding it to my baths I stopped smelling. PH maybe? Or the baking soda was a bacteria vitamin?
Where are the control groups? Shouldn't there also be at least a few of these:
1) One group that showers daily and uses the spray.
2) One group that showers daily and sprays plain water.
3) One group that doesn't shower for 4 weeks and sprays plain water.
Number 3 is almost required for any accurate study and I would think it would
the other 2 wouldn't hurt either.
the bacteria worked to curtail (but not eliminate) the body odor caused by not washing
I used to work with sailors who would come back after long fishing trips. And I can assure you that they definitely did not have this bacteria present.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
did she have sex? could the guy tell she hadn't showered?
There are some crazies who have been released from the Texas mental hospital who are wandering the streets of Austin who could definitely use a dousing of this stuff.
You bathe for health. You don't bathe for an optimum natural balance; you do it so you get nasty pathogens off your body, and don't get infected wounds.
Apparently some health comes at the expense of some other health, like how antibiotics destroy gut bacteria but save you from death by sepsis.
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"She reported improvements to her skin and complexion, and described how the bacteria worked to curtail (but not eliminate) the body odor caused by not washing."
That must have been one funky monkey...
I ask myself if the showers that kill the flora is just water or use soap.
Shampoo is something I long ago stopped using and after a short period I stopped producing excessive amounts of oil. The only times I have to shampoo is when because of a skin condition.
Using soap in general isn't something I feel is needed since a regular rinsing leaves me non smelly.
Question is if I am actually breeding these little microbes and my lack of soaping is why I don't smell or if it's simply because I'm not a smelly person as some of my friends and family asserts?
IIRC from the book "The Life That Lives On Man," the skin count of undesirable bacteria is maximized by daily showering. That's just frequent enough to wash away the desirable strains, and to keep things moist enough for the undesirable strains to proliferate. That research is over 20 years old, so I'd love to see an update.
Ship a crate to Stallman! Along with a box of chocolate covered toenails-and-bunions.
I've gone 10 days without washing (other than water), on a wilderness backpacking trip. Despite the fact that I was sweating a lot every day, at the end of the expedition I didn't feel as "dirty" as I would've expected. I think we could find a happy medium between our modern antibacterial-soap fetish and ye olde annual bath.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
At first I was stinky and greasy. Later I was just greasy. But hey, I've got greasy skin. So I went back to product, because I didn't want to be greasy. But I have hippie shampoo and soap, no patchouli involved — unscented shampoo, and peppermint soap. No deodorant, I smell at least as good now as I did when I used it in conjunction with a bunch of toxic crap.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's not "not bathing" she showered, and you could still use a sponge (or something slightly abrasive) to remove dead skin and excessive sebum.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Ya know what I'm thinkin'? D&D conventions.
Have you ever walked into a hobby store on a Saturday with gaming tables set up? Fucking unwashed pigs.
"Shut up!!! It's Baron Harkonnen cosplay! >:-( "
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Missed opportunity to mention it is "Mostly Harmless" (instead of this "generally harmless"). Also, if they had gone 6 weeks, instead of 4, that would have been 42 days, which is a much better number. Then this invention should have been called the ultimate solution to the universe etc... the only puzzle remaining then is what the heck you always need a towel for.
Want it to sell like pancakes? Just advertise it as a "gluten free probiotic cleansing spray"
i'm only using shampoo every quarter in a year and maybe i'll even stop doing that. i'm not using soap at all UNLESS i'm very dirty and water doesn't cut it. i'm not stinking more than before i started and my hair is just as greasy as it would be if someone who regularly uses shampoo wouldn't shower for like 3 days or so. i rarely shower more often than once a week, the exception being after sports, where i usually just wash away the sweat. all in all i'm saving a ton of water and soap shit. it's all just advertising. i'm cleaning my arm pits and my genitalia with water only on a daily basis. so far no one has complained and i don't feel dirty.
it's all bullshit to sell you more bullshit.
I almost never wash most of my skin with soap. Only my hair, armpits and feet.
I've not used soaps at all (29/m) however I just use deodorant. I've been repeatedly told by several girls that I've dated that I smell amazing and it's one of my defining things that they like about me. I will say that I have semi-dry skin naturally, so I'm not greasy or anything like that. Also, since I don't ever use soap, if I run out of deodorant or run out the door without it, its noticable by me by the end of the day (inside the shirt sniff test).
I'll stick with soap.
Darn hippies were right all along.
Many dermatologists have long suspected that modern humans wash way way too much, and TFA is yet another possible reason why soap and water can be so bad for the skin. I have suffered from dermatitis all my life. Dermatologists routinely told me not too shower more than twice per week and never to use any form of soap - you use non-soap emollients instead. Washing strips everything off the skin, neutralizes natural acids, and removes the protective oil.
It was shown long ago in hospitals that washing hands with plain water and lots of friction was just as effective as soap and water at killing microbes. People want to smell nice.
i could see this having beneficial military uses for deployed soldiers as some of them go months without access to a shower.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
"Scientists know that the gut microbiome is important to proper digestion, and they're trying to figure out if an external microbiome can be similarly beneficial to skin." That's not true. Pick up any microbiology textbook and it'll tell you that your skin flora is essential for it's health. Also, it is not removed by simple washing (soap and water). That just gets rid of excess bugs, and their by-products (that smell). No-one is trying to figure out IF the skin flora is necessary for it's health. If you remove it, you will be prone to colonisation by the bad stuff, just like the effects of when you take antibiotics in your guts.
I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet and rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy I'll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1000 now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
You might be able to get away with this as an office worker living in a nice cool dry city, but not here in sub-tropical Queensland. Winter is pretty good, it's typically 12-20 degrees celcius each day, but can get down to 4-6 degrees mid-winter...but summer...it can be as host as 35 degrees every single day for a week and humidity up in the 40-80% range that whole time. It can still be 30 degrees at 1AM where I am and 50% humidity or more.
The problem here is that you sweat, a lot, and that sweat mixes with dead skin cells and can form a type of smelly dead skin slurry that smells horrible and only a really good shower is likely to remove. I shower 2-3 times a day in summer, and we're on water restrictions here. I would shower more if I didn't have to account for every drop of water down the drain.
Body brushing might be enough to counter in it a cool dry climate, but here in Queensland...fuck no.
I spray fecal matter onto my body. I now have a nice dark skin complexion. There are a few negatives such ad the constant flies but overall I am happy with this approach.
It doesn't surprise me to see this. I haven't used soap for years and have no BO issues which aren't controlled by using deodorant once a week or so. In fact using soap causes me to smell very bad for about 36 hours.
"Does this happen with all soaps?"
I don't know, the smell is bad enough to strongly discourage any such experimentation. My theory has been that it has to do with my skin ecology. When I asked a dermatologist about the issue the conversation was very short.
"So... you smell bad if you use soap?"
"yes"
"Well don't do that then"
I wish I had made that up.
Forget spraying this stuff on my skin, I'll stick with my daily showers, thank you. I'm the parent of several toddlers, and my wife and I have elected to use cloth diapers instead of disposables. The only problem is the ammonia stink from the diaper pail, particularly as the days get warmer. I would love a bottle of ammonia-digesting bacteria that could be spritzed in the pail with each diaper.
I think it's been about four years since I've used soap or shampoo for my daily shower. It's one of the best things I've ever done for my skin and scalp, and I've had enough input to know that I don't have elevated body odor.
The trick is that you still WASH your damn self, which for me means scrubbing with my hands and a handheld shower head so you can get proper access to the undercarriage. I use soap or shampoo without hesitation when I've dirtied myself, and sometimes I'll use conditioner by itself for the hell of it.
There was about a two week adjustment period until my body's oil production got the message, but from then onward it has been smooth sailing.
So collect the washwater, add a bit of ammonia to feed them so they multiply, pour the soup into the dirt in your back yard, and take a dirt bath. Problem solved.
I hear there is lots if N. eutropha in France. Not that I have been there, but from folks I have heard from, this bacteria is everywhere!
Shower as usual to strip the skin of all microbes and then moisturize with a probiotic. Seems more logical to me.
:-)
I declare this idea to officially be in the public domain
Greed is the root of all evil.
They've been testing this for years in France.
The research lab is on a road named something like Rue The Day.
No brain, no pain.
There is a lot of research to be done on human bacteria.
I know many people here react dismissively towards wet science, but there's ample evidence that, for as long as there has been animal life, there have been closely related bacteria hitching a ride with us. And some of those bacteria have co-evolved with us to do useful things -- like termites being able to digest cellulose because of their gut bacteria.
If we wipe out those populations of bacteria that have been evolving with us for tens of millions of years (or more), it seems pretty reasonable to suggest that there will be repercussions.
On the more speculative side, my hay fever is largely gone now (no more runny nose, ever, during pollen season -- but my eyes still get scratchy on the worst days) since I've been dosing myself with bacteria (some commercial, made for sufferers of ileitis colitis, and some wild, homemade kefir and spontaneously pickled veg). I've talked to a researcher in the field; he said I basically hit a home run. Out of the possibly hundreds (thousands?) of species of bacteria I'm missing (sickly kid, lots of antibiotics, born by C-section, bottle-fed), I managed to load myself with probably a couple dozen strains of bacteria (mostly bifido and laco) that managed to help regulate the inflammation causing my seasonal allergies (i.e., my nose dripped like a tap).
FWIW, yogurt as a probiotic is unlikely to do much of anything for you. Most of those bacteria have been bred to produce lactic acid, and little else, as fast and as reliably as possible. Most of them are also unlikely to take up residence in your gut; they've been bred to survive in milk.
I, for one, really want to see more research in this field.
So what we need now is a probiotic after shower spray for the beneficial organisms.
I can see it now- boutiques where they take a sample of your skin fauna after you don't bath for awhile, they analyze what's there, then recommend the ideal mixture for you.
This could be big! Get in now on the ground floor.
at a Democrat (Marxist-Leninist) Party gathering....
I never take showers any more. I do not use soap anywhere but for shaving and for my hands, which I thoroughly wash every time I go in a bathroom or prepare to handle food. I never wear any deodorant or scent of any kind. I am fairly physically active, often bicycling 10 miles a day, dancing, lifting weights, working, etc. I have no problems with the way I look or my body odor. I have pointedly asked people if I smell, to be honest, if I ever ever smell. Nope. Nobody around me ever thinks I smell. I don't have any trouble with my complexion, but I do get acne on my shoulders and back. I would really like to try this stuff, to see if it helps with acne.
People think this is funny because it's disgusting, no it's funny because it's like mitt romney saying he'll bet $10k in cash on a whim.
Liberty.
a little anecdotal input here:
I shower at least once, often twice, sometimes a third time every day (I love temperature contrast bathing).
I have not used shampoo for 2 years or so. (my hair after a few weeks was no longer greasy. It does not have an odor by most accounts)
I use simple saponified olive oil bar soap once a day in the creases. (a dermatologist told me he thought I had great skin for a 39 year old)
I never use deodorant antiperspirant.
I have a couple lovers a year.
Most people have said nothing, a couple have said I'm a little stinky, a couple have said they really like my personal odor, there are probably quite a few who have never said anything but they didn't become lovers.
Dogs tend to seek me out or run away. Is that bad? Hahahahaha.
I'm curious about the product though something in me wants to roll around in some dirt...