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In First American TV Interview, Snowden Talks Accountability and Patriotism
mspohr (589790) points out NBC News's interview with Edward Snowden, the first time Snowden has talked with an American television reporter. It's a wide-ranging conversation, in which Snowden emphasizes his ongoing belief that he did the right thing to release the many documents that he did, even at the cost of his ability to travel. Snowden told NBC's Brian Williams "he had tried to go through channels before leaking documents to journalists, repeatedly raising objections inside the NSA, in writing, to its widespread use of surveillance. But he said he was told, "more or less, in bureaucratic language, 'You should stop asking questions.'" Two U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that Snowden sent at least one email to the NSA's office of general counsel raising policy and legal questions." Perhaps paving the way to eventual repatriation, Snowden also indicated that he would be willing to accept a "short period" behind bars. But, he said, the U.S. should "reform the Espionage Act to distinguish between people who sell secrets to foreign governments for their own gain and people who return information to public hands for the purpose of serving the public interest," and to include contractors as well as government employees.
Between serving the public's interest, and serving one's own interest at the expense of the public? This is intended as a serious question--I like Snowden's idea, but how would we determine the difference between someone who's alerting us to government malfeasance, versus someone who's ideologically bent on disrupting government regardless of whether there's malfeasance or malevolent intent involved?
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
The only place he'd ever get repatriated to is Leavenworth (if they're being generous) or Gitmo (if they aren't).
Poking the bear is bad enough, making the bear feel foolish (while continuing to poke) is unforgivable. In this case, the bear is not Russia. :(
If they let him go free, or off with a light sentence, he'll have a new career as a public speaker, or activist against the NSA and surveillance. No way the government would allow that sentiment to have a publicly acceptable mouth piece.
He has made no money in all this so how was it his own gain?
Otherwise he would have done it anonymously.
You play games. If he had done it anonymously you would say "what has he got to hide? He must be a foreign agent!"
First, I'd like to say that he's a Patriot.
There were a lot of things he could have told you that he hasn't.
Second, if the US government would just follow the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, and stop spying on American citizens in America without individual court orders for individual American citizens, and instead focus on the actual sources of terrorism that we all know are the source: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan, this would all go away.
That said, I look forward to him being granted Amnesty by a free and independent 100 percent green energy Scotland soon.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
2) Snowden revealed information about USA spying
3) Snowden claimed it was in violation of US Constitution.
4) As a result of Snowden's revelations, US collection has gone down. But there has been no terrorist event since then, so no one possibly have died because of his actions.
5) US claims that because collection is down, Snowden damaged US security. Snowden claims that because no one died, he did not.
6)Previously people objected within the US spying agencies about their actions - Snowden was not the first. No one in the agencies ever did anything about the complaints.
If you believe the US did wrong, then Snowden is a patriot. If you believe the US did no wrong, then Snowden is a traitor.
Opinions: from here on out. But honestly, this is a question not of action, but of political belief.
Most importantly, the people in the espionage agency SHOULD be more paranoid than the general population. Otherwise they are in the wrong job. That also means they need to deal with the fact that the general population will NOT want and should NOT allow them to do everything they deem necessary for a safe country. I can make the world safe for children by locking all the children up in a cage till they turn 18. But we don't do that because life is worth the risk. Similarly, we should NOT be giving any spy agencies all the power they think they need. And when we catch them going overboard, they need to be reigned back in.
All of which means that Snowden should be given the benefit of the doubt
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Establishing the source establishes the credibility of the documents, and is necessary to prove that the information was obtained from someone with the necessary clearance and access. Going public is putting yourself at mortal risk, if not from the government whose secrets you are exposing, then from the random "patriots" who believe in that government. When working with information of this sort, keeping yourself anonymous is of benefit to your life expectancy, and thus is generally the preferred route. Suggesting that going public means he's doing it for his own gain is to ignore the fact that the drawbacks of identifying oneself as the source FAR outweigh the gains to be had.
and lost his home in the process
and became a tool for international politics
and doesn't have a country he belongs to
Ed basically sarificed himself so that we become more than mere data clusters.
I hope some of you are reading this; the biggest responsibility in this terrible breach of human rights is on the ones who sold their expertise and soul to Uncle Sam for a bigger lawn. Your grandkids will grow up with the Big Brother.
Anonymous whistleblowers tend to have no credibility whatsoever. That's why he didn't hide his identity.
He might want the government to follow the constitution, but that doesn't mean he's a masochist or a martyr.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Setting up the infrastructure for a total surveillance state is simply beyond the pale. What Snowden has done is what any true American should have done. The machine that government is setting up must be stopped dead in its tracks while there is still time, or there will be no stopping it. And there will be no United States of America after that, only a spot on the map infringing a trademark. Snowden is a true patriot.
If King George had had the NSA, you'd all be speaking proper English.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
Because when the government has proven it has subverted the constitution, that clearly means they will suddenly decide to play by the rules when called out on it, right? Or...you could stop being a dope and realize that the government is out of control and above the law. Rather than act in the best interest of the people it is supposed to govern, it has instead been acting in its own interest and pushing through with a powergrab even harder now that it doesn't even need to hide it.
Stop listening to their lies and stop believing they are going to protect you.
Re 'decide his fate by staying in the US and facing the judicial system ? "
At best he would have found some political interest in his case.
He would have faced a sealed court as just a 'contractor' as the gov aspect of his NSA and CIA work would have been carefully hidden.
A 'contractor' may face all the same legal charges as a gov worker but enjoy few of the gov worker only whistleblowers legal protections.
He would have had all the legal protections of a contractor before a sealed court with a very expensive short list of cleared lawyers.
His legal team would not have the clearance to see, question or ask for more evidence that would support his case.
His legal team would not have the clearance to present more facts to any interested cleared political supporter.
After a short, rigged hidden trial the very public spin would begin.
The left of the US main stream media would understand he was a low level private contractor and not worth reporting on.
The right of the US main stream media would understand he was a low level contractor with far left union ideals and not worth reporting on.
For anyone else the hint that he was a limited hangout would make sure they lost interested in the few public fragments of the case.
Knowing what happens to even the most politically powerfully supported US gov whistleblowers within the US legal system the only wise option was to get the information to the press and then be free of the material.
You can more read about other past US whistleblowers and their US court experiences here: http://cryptome.org/2013-info/...
The other good aspect is that great law reform teams can now work with the public information in public courts and slowly bring more media attention to the loss of US rights and freedoms over the past decades.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I think you're begging the question. His whole point was that the government which would like to prosecute him does not follow the Constitution. Case in point, prisoners in Gitmo, or the CIA's torture victims.
The politicos want his head on a pike... God help help him because I don't see anyone of consequence standing up for the man.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Even if the court is a kangaroo court, civil disobedience requires standing trial -- you expose the illegitimacy of the system by showing people the system is rigged. Thoreau stood trial, Martin Luther King did, cripes even Hitler stood trial a the critical point in his career, it demonstrates that you do not consider yourself above the reach of a system that can affect all of us: Snowden accepts the possibility of Gitmo because, in principle, all of us could be sent to Gitmo and taking a Get-out-of-Gitmo-Free card would be unfair.
That's if he believed in reform, but I don't think he does.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Yes the email seems to exist :)
http://time.com/137530/nsa-to-...
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...
"He goes on to cite a list provided in the training that ranks presidential executive orders alongside federal statutes in the hierarchy of orders governing NSA behaviour.
“I'm not entirely certain, but this does not seem correct, as it seems to imply Executive Orders have the same precedence as law"
With an unnamed individual sending back "“correct that EO's cannot override a statute” but that they have the “force and effect of law”."
Would seem to show a legal question in one email was 'found' and is now been presented with spin to the wider media.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Snowden released the information, and now it's up to us to fix the problems. You mention MLK and such, but the situation simply isn't comparable, and even if it was, there is no need for every 'hero' to act in the same way.
And why is there so much focus on Snowden himself? It seems like the government is trying to distract people from their horrendous activities.
Snowden accepts the possibility of Gitmo because, in principle, all of us could be sent to Gitmo and taking a Get-out-of-Gitmo-Free card would be unfair.
I don't think it's unfair for people who don't want to be abused by their government to move elsewhere.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Well he broke a lot of laws, and he revealed a lot of government activity that wasn't horrendous, along with the horrendous stuff. Just about everything him and Greenwald disclose now are things that are completely legal for the US to do.
Legal != moral. I, for one, want to know what my dear little government thugs are doing, legal or not. If these things are legal, perhaps that needs to be changed. Releasing information like this puts the issues into the spotlight.
That blames the victim -- the government doesn't have to change, the people should just "love it or leave it."
Straw man. Leaving or not leaving is a personal decision. You can either leave to avoid the abuse, or stay and work to change it (or stay and do nothing, as some do).
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Come to think of it, if the US government wants to talk to Snowden or Assange so bad, can't they just do so by teleconference?
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
The net result of this whole affair is the US and its immediate allies lose all of their intelligence programs
Perhaps they should have thought that through before doing all this nonsense?
I don't think you really care either, since these are "thugs" you clearly feel no responsibility for, you probably just get a little righteous indignation high out of seeing the government embarrassed, kinda like Snowden.
Well, you might want to stop theorizing about how I think unless you're a mind reader.
I vote against these scumbags at every opportunity and vote for people who will set the situation right. It's just that idiots make up the majority, and they have not yet come around.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I doubt that he's played out his hand since he seems to know very well how to play the game. Even if he did though, the US Government has made a lot of US Soldiers and Veterans very very angry withe the newest leaks on the VA. Sure, there are a few scumbags in 3 letter agencies that would kill Snowden to turn a quick buck, but a whole lot of people with military training should be watching his back if he comes back to the US.
Very interesting times we are living in, because currently the US is a powder keg waiting for a spark. Everyone knows that the system is corrupt to the core, but few are sure what to do with the situation and many hope for a peaceful solution.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I continue in my belief that Civics should be taught every year from 8th grade through 12th grade.
I'd take this a step further and require that juries be picked only from 12th graders and retirees. That way, no one can complain about missing work. You may think it's a bad idea to use teens and the elderly, but I think they may actually do a better job than a bunch of people who don't want to be there in the first place.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Mr. Snowden exposed, in an undeniable manner, a grave threat to the freedom of each and every US citizen. He deserves a Presidential pardon or some kind of get out of jail free card on this act, because he did break the law, but the law in this case is shielding people who are secretly undermining our fundamental freedoms through massive unwarranted spying on US citizens.
Is Snowden a criminal? Yes. Is he a hero to those of us who wish to continue to live in the land of the freer than average? Yes.
Here's what our government has been doing since 9/11/2001 gave the anti-freedom brigade carte blanche:
1. As Mr. Snowden rubs our face in it: massive and sweeping unwarranted surveillance and collection of data and meta data of our phone and internet communications,
2. Secret courts.
3. Extra-judicial assassinations of both foreign nationals and in rare cases, US citizens. 4. Drone strikes on people in many countries outside of our declared war zones (Iraq and Afghanistan).
5. Declaring war on a country that has not invaded us or attacked us or any of our allies (Iraq).
6. Detaining criminals without due process, no sentence, no release date.
7. Torture on a massive scale. Abu Ghraib is just where we got caught on film. We've funded the torture of thousands of individuals. We as taxpayers are complicit and accruing a pretty massive karmic debt.
8. CIA black sites where our government can and does operate outside any bounds of law or moral constraint.
Since 9/11, we have been sliding into a nasty democracy of evil and unconstrained government behavior. We need to start rolling this stuff back. Strike down the patriot act and adopt a pre-9/11 stance towards freedom, due process, privacy and the constitution. It'd be a bargain to suffer a dozen 9/11 attacks, compared to what we're becoming because of our craven fear.
Live free or die.
For every US government (usually but not exclusive to right-wing) official who cries out "Traitor", the truth gets hidden that the US government really did break the US constitution (perhaps not just this one, there are stories that there were telegraph offices that went through army posts that had pony express to the White House). But more recently there was a very troubling story published by the New Yorker (and it may still be online) about Thomas Drake (inventor of a haystack-to-needle data search tool), who worked for the NSA and in the process of designing thin thread incorporated checks and balances for it to remain constitutional. First the NSA went with another project (Trailblazer) that failed, then they turned around, stabbed him in the back, removed the checks and balances and when he tried to keep things on the up and up (respecting the constitution and his oath), he was thrown under the bus by the NSA, his home was bugged, his family threatened, he was threatened with 1000 years in prison, and basically accused of being unAmerican. Short answer: being on the inside and trying to do the right thing will get you poo-pooed. If you try hard, you will be given the smackdown. The people in power aren't interested in the constitution. They aren't interested in doing the right thing. They don't even care about the 'enemy'. They care about the power that they have, and they like it unchecked, unbridled, and if throwing boy scouts like Snowden, Drake, Manning or Asange under the bus get them more power, they will throw.
The net result of this whole affair is the US and its immediate allies lose all of their intelligence programs, while Russia gets to keep doing whatever it wants.
Ah so the essense is that the US should not be a free country where the government sticks to the morally justified law bacause of Russia?
oooookay.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Everyone knows that the system is corrupt to the core, but few are sure what to do with the situation and many hope for a peaceful solution.
One of the most important things to consider is that historically very few violent or armed revolutions and coup d'etat have resulted in a better government than the one they were overthrowing. Things that have generally brought improvement are slow drifts in line with public mood over time.
The problem with violent change, especially when instigated by people who have history of serving in a professional army is that they often have huge difficulties when it comes to coping with disagreement. People not doing what they are told in a military context often has huge repercussions (and so it often needs to) but the general public not doing what they are told is often their democratic right in a free society.
People with an army background seem to be very good at becoming dictators. The sort of flexible, politician types that have no backbone are exactly the sort of people you need when it comes to dealing with a free populace. Part of being free, is being able to believe things like "socialism is better than capitalism" even though the vast majority of the population and the government strongly disagrees.
The best sort of change the US could undergo would be driven by a mass movement of a highly educated, non-violent population who realised they were being oppressed and refused to stand for it simply by not playing along with a bullshit system designed to keep them down. Of course, that is not likely to happen any time soon.
I dont read