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German Intelligence Agency Planning To Follow Big NSA Brother On Shoestring

An anonymous reader, tongue in cheek, writes"Facebook, Twitter, et al are tools for terrorists planning to do whatever terrorists do, Germany's BND has discovered. Inevitably, real-time monitoring of these sites is necessary and urgently required [original, in German], not least because that Snowden chap has shown we're running behind the U.S. and UK. And Spain. And Italy. In short, it's a national emergency — 300 million euros, presto please — and if we do this smartly, we could even get a sense of what the population outside Germany thinks. And while we're at it, why not throw in automated enemy face recognition too — and biometry and-and a program to deform the faces of our own spies' selfies, so the enemy cannot google them. Time to invest in national security startups."

42 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. Automated enemy face recognition? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    And while we're at it, why not throw in automated enemy face recognition too

    Is that a synonym for kufiya recognition these days? Because, you know, these things are roughly equal when it comes to accuracy these days. /s

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Staatssicherheit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    German intelligence wants to know what people are thinking? It sounds like they are doing this for the security of the state, "Staatssicherheit".

    Again.

    1. Re:Staatssicherheit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, Homeland Security... just that name is chilling.

    2. Re:Staatssicherheit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, Homeland Security... just that name is chilling.

      You'd have thought that in 2001-2002 someone would have pointed that out to them. The optics of it are so goddamn Commie you couldn't have used that name in a 1980s/Cold War dystopian sci-fi movie without it being obvious that anyone who uses language like that is a Really Bad Guy.

      And yet they did. Right in front of us. While those of us who got the "joke" were called them on it. And it worked anyways.

    3. Re:Staatssicherheit by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Well, Homeland Security... just that name is chilling.

      Staatssicherheit meant "security of the state" where "state" refered to the government, so it really meant "security of the government". The main purpose was probably to make sure the East Germany stayed loyal to the Kremlin.

  3. Who knew the end of capitalism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... would result in technocratic tyranny where robots and automated identification run rampant as the clueless masses entertain themselves to death in a stupor after the hours of stress at work.

    1. Re:Who knew the end of capitalism... by MRe_nl · · Score: 4, Informative

      Terry Gilliam, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Karl Marx, Philip K. Dick, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven?

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    2. Re:Who knew the end of capitalism... by MRe_nl · · Score: 1

      If I could make any of the above-mentioned laugh at any joke of mine I would be a happy necromancer.

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    3. Re:Who knew the end of capitalism... by umghhh · · Score: 1
      what work? The way this is going these days is that due to interdependent changes in economy, technology, organization etc the masses will be less and less employable. Other than that the diagnosis with tyranny is correct, I think.

      I recall reading "The Net Delusion: How Not to Liberate The World" in 2011 and thinking how this can evolve and what about things Morozov did not write, because he maybe did not know (or did not dare to write, being afraid of tin foil hat label etc). I have also an impression that in the world so small as ours (thanx to technology) some means of using the streams of data is needed anyway. Not only for terrorists but also for normal criminals. They use technology too and combating them in old fashion way is increasingly impossible. Checks and balances - that is the way to go. But then there are some tiny little problems, namely with democracy itself. We know now how silly it is to believe that our voices count - they do not. We may vote one asshole out of the office (not an easy feat but still possible) but what to do between elections? What about policies that we disagree with and which are anyway introduced?

      Quite frankly, when I think about decisions our Great Leaders make (for the sake of democracy, human rights and their corporate friends), I have this sickening feeling of the past long gone - when for instance questions about discrepancies in party approved history books could mean no access to university (fortunately for me communism fell before this happened).

    4. Re: Who knew the end of capitalism... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      revolt of the washing machines and peace on earth are bit more appropriate I think but in general the master had predicted quite some of the things that become reality.

    5. Re:Who knew the end of capitalism... by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Considering that Terry Gilliam is still very much alive it might just be because your jokes suck.

  4. On the uselessness of spies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's urgent to spend more money on collecting more data than we can analyze. The KGB won the spy war hands down, yet USSR lost the cold war hands down. That's how important spies are to national security.

    1. Re:On the uselessness of spies by greenbird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The KGB won the spy war hands down, yet USSR lost the cold war hands down.

      Hmmm...I'm guessing you mean the KGB won the foreign espionage battle. Apparently they didn't do so good on the domestic espionage front or they would likely still be here. What it seems you don't understand is none of these programs have anything to do with foreign espionage or counter terrorism for that matter. They're all about domestic espionage, that is spying on and controlling dissent within your own population.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
  5. The difference with the USA by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is that Germany is much closer to being a true and functioning democracy. I don't see how this would come through the Bundestag, the German parliament, without being at least watered down, viz. being quietly forced into starvation as soon as a left-leaning government comes into power.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    1. Re:The difference with the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course the world revolves around the USA.

    2. Re:The difference with the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course the world revolves around the USA.

      For now.

      Ignorance feeds the thought that it's always been this way.

      Stupidity feeds the thought that it's sustainable.

    3. Re:The difference with the USA by Golden_Rider · · Score: 2

      ...is that Germany is much closer to being a true and functioning democracy. I don't see how this would come through the Bundestag, the German parliament, without being at least watered down, viz. being quietly forced into starvation as soon as a left-leaning government comes into power.

      Nope, it will be as usual.

      "Diplomacy" is absolutely necessary (all governments know that the others are spying, too, which is important for secret behind-the-scenes deals, so nobody can just STOP spying just because the masses are against it). The spying will go on, while the politicians - in public - will claim to be against it. So when the next Snowden shows up and publishes proof that spying indeed DOES happen, the politicians can claim to not have known about it, some heads will roll, the politicians will promise that something like this will never happen again, while secretly handing over more money to fund BETTER spying.

    4. Re:The difference with the USA by silanea · · Score: 2

      ...is that Germany is much closer to being a true and functioning democracy. [...] as soon as a left-leaning government comes into power.

      That is, I am afraid, a very naive view. Our social democrats, the SPD, - I assume that is what you meant with left-leaning - have earned themselves the nickname "Verräterpartei" ("traitors' party") amongst those who care about civil rights for the strong discrepancy between their election pledges and their actual voting in parliament. The party's functionaries usually state afterwards that they agreed to rights-infringing laws "mit Bauchschmerzen" ("with bellyache"); that phrase has become a meme over here. A lot of the draconian post-9/11 legislation was rushed through parliament under a social democrat government by then-minister for the interior Otto Schily, which is why the laws are known as the "Otto-Katalog" ("Otto catalogue" obviously, which is a play on German mail-order company Otto).

      The actual left-leaning party, the LINKE or Linkspartei, unfortunately is lingering somewhere between 5 and 10% in elections and is politically isolated from all major parties including the SPD. They along with the German Pirate Party are amongst the very few parties over here that actually care about civil rights, but they still do not reach a critical mass of voters. So we Germans have to look to the Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe for protecting us from an ever-growing "security" complex.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    5. Re:The difference with the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Does the USA hold the standard we compare everything to ?

      Mostly.

      For the moment.

      At the rate things are going, not much longer. Except maybe in the destruction of liberty.

    6. Re:The difference with the USA by stenvar · · Score: 1

      I don't see how this would come through the Bundestag, the German parliament, without being at least watered down, viz. being quietly forced into starvation as soon as a left-leaning government comes into power.

      The same way that the government of Brandt that gave the NSA a carte blanche to spy in Germany.

      ...is that Germany is much closer to being a true and functioning democracy

      If by "true and functioning democracy", you mean a mix of right wing populism, left wing demagoguery, technocracy, and corporate cronyism, then Germany is indeed closer to it; but fear not, the US is rapidly heading down that way too, led by such luminaries as Bush and Obama.

    7. Re:The difference with the USA by aliquis · · Score: 2

      Democracy Index:
      http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

      #1 Norway, 9.80/10.00
      #4 Sweden, 9.50/10.00
      #14 Germany, 8.34/10.00
      #19 USA, 8.11/10.00

      8-10 is condisered functioning democracy.

      #119 Russia, 3.92/10.00
      #141 China, 3.14/10.00
      #167 North Korea, 1.08/10.00

    8. Re:The difference with the USA by cpghost · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't place my hopes on the Bundestag. They are being controlled by a grand coalition of CDU and SPD, both parties being traditionally more pro-surveillance than pro-civil rights.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    9. Re:The difference with the USA by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Better than nothing.

      There's also http://www.freedomhouse.org/re...

      Freedom in the world - 2013
      Freedom rating 1-7
      Sweden - 1.0, Germany - 1.0, USA - 1.0, Russia - 5.5
      Civil liberties 1-7
      Sweden - 1, Germany - 1, USA - 1, Russia - 5
      Political rights 1-7
      Sweden - 1, Germany - 1, USA - 1, Russia - 6

      Freedom of the press - 2013
      Press freedom score 0-100
      Sweden - 10, Germany - 17, USA - 18, Russia - 81 / 100
      Legal environment 0-30
      Sweden - 2, USA - 3, Germany - 6 , Russia - 25 / 30
      Political environment 0-40
      Sweden - 4, Germany - 7, USA - 10, Russia - 32 / 40
      Economic environment 0-40
      Sweden - 4, Germany - 4, USA - 5, Russia - 24 / 40

      USD GNI (PPP)
      Sweden 53,150
      USA 48,620
      Germany 44,270
      Russia 10,730

    10. Re:The difference with the USA by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      From Freedom House http://www.freedomhouse.org/co..., hardly seems an impartial group and as such its output has been snatched up for US corporate propaganda. One obvious failure of logic is Russia. It is pretty bloody obvious that Putin has to work very hard at being popular with the Russian electorate, as such their democracy must be fairly intact. Perhaps Freedom House measure democracy as to how well the public can be fooled into to believing that a corporate owned government is democratic.

      It seems at the moment the real conflict between Russia and the US at the moment, is that Russia is most definitely not corporate controlled and the US which is corporate controlled is aggressively scheming and plotting to turn it into yet another corporate controlled state.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    11. Re:The difference with the USA by ahnungslos · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid we'll be presented with a fait accompli. I'm also in doubt that Karsruhe is able to stop this mess :(

  6. If only Erich Mielke could still be with us by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    25 years too late, his wet dream coming true.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Re:Good for them! by Archtech · · Score: 1

    Is this the earliest recorded invocation of Godwin?

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  8. Social protest today - terrorism tomorrow by Flytrap · · Score: 3, Informative

    Facebook, Twitter, et al are tools for terrorists planning to do whatever terrorists do

    Sounds eerily like the same thing that dictators have been saying for years when citizens organise themselves on social networks like Facebook and Twitter.

    Heck, it was just two short years ago that we were hailing the ability for the common folk in Arab countries to organise themselves on social networks like Facebook and Twitter, outside the watchful eye of state agencies, and plot the often violent overthrow of an unpopular government.

    Surely if organising violent protest action on social networks was good for the Arab Spring, it should be good for the European Spring

    So... what has changed... have the roosters come home to roost!?

    1. Re:Social protest today - terrorism tomorrow by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      So... what has changed... have the roosters come home to roost!?
      The German and French police experiences of the 1970's and 1980's via peace, workers, law reform groups and the use of early computer networks is been folded into everyday policing.
      Facial recognition, computer learning/tracking of written web 2.0 content, voice and web cam collection are all part of keeping one step ahead of the formation of all protest groups.
      After individuals have been identified they can be tracked, sorted and appropriate action can be focused on the person. The option to set up, turn into an informant, been used to divide a group or offered an easy way out if they just stop protesting can be considered.
      What makes Germany more legally interesting is the pro democracy laws that can put any group left or right under long term watch once legally found to be a problem for German democracy. A neat legal gift left in German law after ww2.
      The rest of the tame protesters can be herded into established groups that are 100% gov controlled or totally tracked to do pointless busy work around political ideas with no traction with the wider public.
      The mass French protest experience and national coordination with early networking via Minitel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... will not be allowed to form on German web 2.0.

      The German gov hopes German protesters will see organizing on web 2.0 as risky as a telephone in 1980's East German once on a list.
      You chat on web 2.0, protest, your under easy to see active watch, tracked, approached by name and offered gov terms: work with the gov, stop now or expect jail 'soon'.
      What the German gov has forgotten is East Germans turned up at churches and protested, risked prison, loss of jobs, loss of eduction, loss of family.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  9. Pics or it didn't happen. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you are going to make the claim that terrorism happens on facebook and twitter, how about showing posts that this happens, because I have a hard time believing that anyone but the most incompetent terrorists would do so, and we can catch incompetent terrorists without sacrificing civil liberties.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Pics or it didn't happen. by spacefight · · Score: 1

      It's all part of the 'create-fear-by-telling-lies' departments. It has been all the way since 9/11. FUD at its best.

    2. Re:Pics or it didn't happen. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I'm in a Facebook group against safari park hunting, pro-animal rescuing (think animal shelter and adoption) and freedom to all the animals in meat factories and fur farms.

      Now I don't know whatever they are active but I'm sure at least the later count as "terrorism" by some.

    3. Re:Pics or it didn't happen. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      and freedom to all the animals in meat factories and fur farms.

      Now I don't know whatever they are active but I'm sure at least the later count as "terrorism" by some.

      It's like helping someone slaves escape. WTF! You bastard what have you done!?

  10. Re:Good for them! by gigaherz · · Score: 1

    Now we just need someone to mention Hitler within the summary, I guess? Mentioning Hitler in the article may actually be too soon for Godwin's Law to apply to it? Where do we draw the line and make it just part of the article?

  11. This is old news by bhima · · Score: 1

    I live in Austria and for the past decade there has been a steady stream of news indicating that several European governments have on going programing which are similar and/or complementary to those the Americans are running.

    Moreover, as is the case with reports dealing with American programs, when they say "will soon implement", "working on", or "future programs" it's most often the case that such programs are already in place and now what is being worked on is mechanism to use the data they produce in the prosecution regular domestic crimes.

    --
    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
  12. Not a surprise by sasparillascott · · Score: 2

    Snowden showed that all of the big European governments went along with the U.S. as it rolled out its secret total surveillance of electronic communications. Of course there are the really close co-operators (Britain, Australia and some others), but they all went along with it. Of course Europe had trains blowing up etc. to push them along.

    From what has been shown, not a single big government didn't run with the U.S. down that path to where their govts can know everything about the general population - just like East Germany wanted.

    This was one of the goals of Bin Laden, destroying the freedoms inherent in the west...he succeeded here. The sad thing is not a single government realized having a total surveillance state is incompatible with have a true Democracy (mid to longer term) where privacy and freedom are required. Europe has the best chance of turning over this garbage.

  13. Well... by spacefight · · Score: 1

    ... the rich and powerful elite behind todays governments and therefore also the secret services will learn hopefully soon enough, that their wealth and power is worth nothing, absolutely nothing if you face a large turnaround in society regarding civil rights and privacy rights. Good luck.

    1. Re:Well... by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 2

      ... the rich and powerful elite behind todays governments and therefore also the secret services will learn hopefully soon enough, that their wealth and power is worth nothing, absolutely nothing if you face a large turnaround in society regarding civil rights and privacy rights. Good luck.

      You seem to be under the impression the same laws apply to the rich elites as apply to the working class.

    2. Re:Well... by spacefight · · Score: 1

      Not at all... But we have seen people overthrowing governments lately. It can happen in the west too.

  14. Facebook, Twitter, et al are tools for terrorists by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    So is knowledge, so lets ban books. So are vocal cords and eyes...

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  15. Re:Good for them! by davester666 · · Score: 1

    why not just have him both submit the article and be the editor...he could finally stop using 'timothy' as a nom de plume.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  16. I was ripped off by ssufficool · · Score: 1

    I was only paid 2 million. Geez, I should have kept the redistribution rights.