Slashdot Mirror
UK Seeks To Hold Terrorism Trial In Secret
hazeii (5702) writes in with news about a secret trial set to take place in England. 'A major terrorism trial is set to be held entirely in secret for the first time in British legal history in an unprecedented departure from the principles of open justice, the court of appeal has heard. The identities of the two defendants charged with serious terror offences are being withheld from the public, and the media are banned from being present in court to report the forthcoming trial against the two men, known only as AB and CD.'
I know you may still be annoyed at the US for breaking away from the Empire. Attempting to lure them back by imitating their practices is however NOT a good idea.
Sincerely,
The rest of the world
Formally, UK legal history goes back to the coronation of Richard 1 in 1189. Practically, it goes back to the 8th century or so. This is (one of) the few trials in camera in the last 100 years, that's all.
for the first time in British legal history in an unprecedented departure from the principles of open justice
Wrong
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
I guess we are following the Americans with their secret courts afterall. I was hoping we would avoid this.
I don't even understand the rationale behind it, the whole thing has to be held in secret because even naming the defendants would risk national security, but if it can't be held in secret and the defendants are named the case has to be dropped? So what's to stop the defendants or their family going to the media to say they're the defendants to get the case against them dropped? It doesn't make any sense.
At least it's still a jury trial if nothing else, but it begs the question as to how anyone outside the system can verify the jury isn't rigged.
OH MY FG!
Recall when Duncan Campbell, Time Out reporter Crispin Aubrey and former SIGINIT operator John Berry faced witnesses from the UK intelligence community:
Colonel 'B'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The UK court system has reverted to 1977 and the Official Secrets Act 1911 to try and stop the press from reporting again. All this has been tested in the UK press and legal system before. Secret courts did not save the GCHQ from Time Out article "The Eavesdroppers".
If the case is so "major" and is legally sound, let the press in to see the UK justice system at work. The same issues where faced over Ireland, UK gov staff working for the Soviet Union, the first super grass efforts (well connected informers getting reduced time).
How a secret national security trial will legally challenged in open court after a conviction for the tactic of "major terrorism" will be interesting.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Oh give it a rest, will you? Queen were actually quite good, although their lead singer was a rather odd character.
Maybe they haven't quite perfected the "parallel construction" that our intelligence agencies coach US law enforcement on. You need a good cover story that establishes probable cause so that you don't need to rely on illegally gathered intelligence as evidence. Ship them to GITMO I hear there are a couple empty bunks. That will allow you to avoid those pesky civil courts all together.
And the global dictatorship is slowly being pieced together.
And citizens do nothing, amazingly. People with any knowledge of history should be scared shitless - I know I am.
And soon it'll be too late to do anything about it...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
The two guys probably don't even exist, the Judge just wants to play GTA or something for a bit and not be disturbed in his secret court. Probably has pillow forts and everything.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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What else could you expect from a country, reigned by the QUEEN? When you look things deep down, there are no democratical foundations in this country, there is only "because-I-can" principle. So don't expect human rights and fair trials.
You do know the queen does little more than stand around looking pompous?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
What else could you expect from a country, reigned by the QUEEN?
I would expect it all, and I would expect it now.
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It is obvious that we lost some wonderful and brave people on 9/11. We also lost some expensive buildings and the suffering of many people may ruin the lives of many families for life. Sometimes 9/11 is compared to Pearl Harbor. But in all seriousness 9/11 does not compare to Pearl Harbor at all. During that attack we lost ships and sailors and airmen that we would need to save our nation and the pain to our nation included the threat of loss of the nation. The 9/11 attack was not a major attack in that sense. I don't think many people viewed 9/11 as threatening to collapse the entire nation. The idea that for purposes of trial we label 9/11 as a major attack doesn't sit well with me. Yes, we do have a lunatic, cult like, group of incompetents who would like to crush us. But we see them more as idiots than a military threat. I think the term idiots is justified as none of the enemy will improve their place in life from the wretched little fight that these folks have put up. In the end these people live at our leisure. If they really were a "major threat" then we would have gone to the big weapons and simply erased them from the face of the Earth. Covert actions by our government may be far more dangerous than a bunch of religious primitives running about with AK47s.
And, pray tell, how do you know the accused are terrorists? That the government has clear evidence that they are terrorists? Or that there are any credible witnesses at all?
You don't. In truth, you don't know anything at all. Because the whole proceedings are secret and hidden from you.
The government could drag you before the same secret court tomorrow, and none would be wiser. Think about it before you so enthusiastically throw away your rights. Secret trials because of "terrorism" can be used to hide many sins and subvert inconvenient rights.
Fair enough. Maybe he should have said secret trials. FISC is basically a warrant rubber stamp factory.
I'm genuinely curious about he extent of secret trials in the US. My understanding is that there are restrictions when it comes to public trials for minors. Probably other situations. Where the boundaries are, I'm not sure.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
There will be a jury - though one may be sceptical about how unprejudiced they will be - and the judge will be responsible for ensuring real fair play. The issue is, of course, about trust of these institutions given there is no chance for the gawping public to follow the details of the case. Given the inability of the public to accept jury verdicts when the they are 'sure' that the opposite answer is the right one, one has to doubt that the gawping public offers a great deal. I admit I'm thinking out loud here - I really don't know the right answer, I'm just not 100% sure 'open justice' really doesn't descend into witch hunting on a regular basis.
This might be the most dangerous parallelogram in history!
Seriously. The last 20 years have seen British political life descend into the level of parody. Are we going to find out in another 20 years that the entire political class starting with Tony Blair was infected with some disease that ate their brains?
By the way, it is not the case that England has never had secret trials before. There used to be the Star Chamber, (prior to 1398 to 1641) :
That did not end will, and neither will this.
In the article, it says that "AB" was charged with possessing documents showing how to make a bomb. I don't live in the UK, but I know in the US that it's completely legal to possess documents related to bomb-making, so long as no bombs are actually made or used. Hell, there are books in the US that will tell you how to make a nuclear weapon - but good luck getting your hands on any of the materials for it. As far as I'm aware, under the law in the US, I could download a tutorial on how to make a bomb and even draw up plans for a bomb and still not have committed a crime, so long as I don't make one.
Why isn't this the case in the UK? You would think it would be a basic freedom of speech issue - and yes, I'm aware that the UK has no official freedom of speech law, but you would think that simply possessing knowledge could not be ruled illegal.
You don't seem to believe in it either, as you are willing to do away with it. You need some help.
Of course he doesn't - if he had enough mental capacity to realise that, he wouldn't be on slashdot showing the world what a hate-filled asshat he is, tilting at brown windmills that only exist mainly in the mind of him and his racist ilk.