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Starbucks Offers Workers 2 Years of Free College

mpicpp writes Starbucks baristas working through college are about to get an extra boost from their employer. The company announced it will offer both full and part-time employees a generous tuition reimbursement benefit that covers two full years of classes. The benefit is through a partnership with Arizona State University's online studies program. Employees can choose from any of more than 40 undergraduate degrees, and aren't limited to only business classes.

117 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. No good for anthropologists by nowsharing · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the field of anthropology, we typically get our degree first before moving on to Starbucks employment.

    1. Re:No good for anthropologists by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

      Why don't you put your degree to work and go work at Anthropologie?

    2. Re:No good for anthropologists by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      That's a terrible suggestion. You should anthropologise to everyone.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:No good for anthropologists by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 2

      Always remember that your barista responsibilites change based on your field. As a former archaeologist, I cannot tell you how many nazis I killed while working at Starbucks.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    4. Re:No good for anthropologists by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't complain.
      Interaction with real Java man routinely!

    5. Re:No good for anthropologists by new+death+barbie · · Score: 2

      If I was in Starbucks and had ordered that double skinny latte... I would drink it, sir.

      --

      It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

    6. Re:No good for anthropologists by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Always remember that your barista responsibilites change based on your field. As a former archaeologist, I cannot tell you how many nazis I killed while working at Starbucks.

      Did you recommend the Lost Ark blend, with room for scream? I hear that one is quite the face melter, it's so hot.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    7. Re:No good for anthropologists by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      I know it's a joke but whenever I hear people rag on "burger flippers" I'm reminded that the CEO of McDonalds is a former burger flipper. Personally I'd much rather hire a kid who wasn't afraid to scrub toilets to pay for an education, than some upper class ponce breezing through life on their parents dime.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. Nothing to see here by McGruber · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It is just a joint marketing ploy between Starbucks and ASU.

    1. Re:Nothing to see here by ahaweb · · Score: 1

      It's ASU, not University of Phoenix.

    2. Re:Nothing to see here by plopez · · Score: 4, Funny

      ASU has swimming pools

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re: Nothing to see here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They used to pay a bit for real-life coursework at various schools. Now they pay a bit more, but still not all (you're expected to get Pell grants and pay some out-of-pocket for two years) for online-only courses at one school. That's the change: going from choice to monolith. The rise of a new degree mill.

    4. Re:Nothing to see here by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      filled with beer.

    5. Re:Nothing to see here by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      "Maybe I’ll go to the real Phoenix and finish school. They’ve got one in Costa Mesa."

    6. Re:Nothing to see here by exomondo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ah the /. cynics are out in force ready to put a negative spin on whatever they can.

    7. Re:Nothing to see here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One now has to ask: Why is it that all "for profit" schools, corporate training schools, gov't "centers/national universities" and such go through Arizona?

    8. Re:Nothing to see here by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Who cares what their motivation is, so long as they actually do what they say they'll do?

  3. BSES by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    By 2016, the average barista will need at least a 2 year degree to remain competitive. The best ones will have their BSES (Bachelor of science in espresso services)

    1. Re:BSES by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Is that more or less prestigious than a BA in art history or music theory or some such? I mean, sure, it has Science in it's name, but you might be better off with an Bachelors of Espresso Engineering. I hear Engineers make a lot of money.

    2. Re:BSES by Dragonslicer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just tossing out a stray thought, but how much value would there be in having maybe one person at a Starbucks with some sort of culinary arts education/training? I'm sure it wouldn't be much, but it was an interesting thought I had.

    3. Re:BSES by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      Not much, I suspect. Starbucks are a lot like McDonalds in that uniformity will always take precedence over creativity. It may not be the best coffee/burger, but the customer always knows what to expect.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    4. Re:BSES by NoKaOi · · Score: 2

      Just tossing out a stray thought, but how much value would there be in having maybe one person at a Starbucks with some sort of culinary arts education/training? I'm sure it wouldn't be much, but it was an interesting thought I had.

      Value? None. It breaks the Starbucks model. Starbucks is really just a fast-food place like McDonald's, the employees at their locations are not chefs and don't come up with the recipes. They are not supposed to make culinary decisions, they follow a specific set of procedures, and although those procedures may be more complex and require more skill than at other fast-food restaurants, they are still a set of procedures that somebody else came up with.

    5. Re:BSES by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      No no no! What you really need for good coffee will be the mechanic or tech from trade school. The engineer won't listen to him/her and will put the lever on the wrong side due to a misplaced concept of efficiency. The scientist will complain that the engineer isn't doing it with appropriate reverence with the theoretical underpinnings (to which the engineer has comments on what the scientist can do with the real world non-ideological coffee processing device's lever) and the artist will be secretly wondering why they listened to their school's recruiter about there "not really" being any difference between schools which offer a BA versus the schools which offer a BS in the same field - all while nodding along with the scientist trying to promulgate that myth to his/her current employer. Then one of the non-techs will be promoted into management and then the inferno-roast will break free as he/she suspects that the previously derided business major might have known how to keep spreadsheets from biting back.

    6. Re:BSES by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Jinx.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    7. Re:BSES by McGruber · · Score: 2

      Just tossing out a stray thought, but how much value would there be in having maybe one person at a Starbucks with some sort of culinary arts education/training?

      That would increase healthcare costs because Starbucks employees trained in culinary arts would need to consume a lot of antidepressants.

    8. Re:BSES by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "... require more skill than at other fast-food restaurants,.."
      no, no it doesn't. I could argue it's less skill.

      Everything is push button, and you never have to deal with grease.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:BSES by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      I would presume "real" ones. There apparently is still such a huge need for software engineers that they keep bringing in H1-B candidates. If a software engineer is unemplo.....errrr working at Starbucks, they aren't trying. Even if they took a pay cut from normal software engineer wages, it's bound to be more than Starbucks barristas make.

    10. Re:BSES by Brulath · · Score: 1

      Aren't most coffee machines in fast-food outlets fully automated these days? As in, select the type and it'll produce the coffee for you, at the correct temperature, without burning? You'd pretty much always get a consistent result given the same inputs. That wouldn't stop it from being consistently bad, though, if the beans weren't very good or the milk was skillfully burned.

  4. In civilized countries... by Stormwatch · · Score: 5, Informative

    In civilized countries, education is public and fully tax-paid anyway.

    1. Re:In civilized countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ... and in the United States, we have most of the best universities in the world.

    2. Re:In civilized countries... by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      You used that trick on us for health care.

      I guess you plan to use that tactic on each program you think that everyone should be paying for.

    3. Re:In civilized countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The US used to subsidize education far more than it does now. But a certain ideological movement sprang up and laid out the road that is now leading our educational system to the edge of the cliff. The same ideology exists in other Western countries; although it is less popular in most countries than it is here, it is still present, and very dangerous.

      The lesson you should learn from the US is: safeguard your civilization, or you will lose it. Never take it for granted.

    4. Re:In civilized countries... by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

      And if only you had gone to them, you would know that correlation is not the same thing as causation.

    5. Re:In civilized countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Americans don't understand the concept of socialism and still think it's a bad thing.

      I guess the rich don't need to fear for their lifestyle.

    6. Re:In civilized countries... by alen · · Score: 1

      and taxes are like 90% because the stupid kids decide they don't want to work in their 20's and go on mental vacations because college was so stressful

    7. Re:In civilized countries... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      The U.S.A. still doesn't have a real socialist health care system because you have private insurance companies in the mix.

    8. Re:In civilized countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Back when we used to win wars instead of getting locked into fruitless decade-long quagmires, we also managed to subsidize college tuition more than we do now....

    9. Re:In civilized countries... by alen · · Score: 1

      yeah, it was called GI Bill and Army college fund. Navy and air force have their own versions. still around too

    10. Re:In civilized countries... by alen · · Score: 1

      yeah, except that there are only a few universities in the country and only a minority of the kids go on to higher education
      in the USA every hick redneck town has a college and almost everyone goes to college now

    11. Re:In civilized countries... by digsbo · · Score: 1

      In fairness, part of the extraordinarily high young adult unemployment is due to labor laws that punish the crap out of any business that hires a crappy worker. They can't fire them.

    12. Re:In civilized countries... by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      Then why are American schools full of Europeans?

    13. Re:In civilized countries... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      In socialist canada, education for residents is subsidized, and student loans have reasonable terms. No free ride unless you get a scholarship.

      That's not really any different than in the US. Public universities are subsidized - that's why they cost so much less than private ones (usually 25% to 50% as much). Government student loans seem pretty reasonable to me. No interest accrues so long as you're in school, repayment doesn't begin until 6 months after you graduate, and most of them have repayment terms of 10 years or so.

      I went to a major public university, got my BS, and after grants/other financial aid had around $24,000 in debt to pay off after graduation. Payments were less than $200 per month and I finished up on payments about 18 months ago.

      BTW my dad is a construction worker who dropped out of school in the 8th grade. My mom is a receptionist who graduated high school. Growing up poor is no excuse for not getting an education. If you want it all you have to do is work for it.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    14. Re:In civilized countries... by wiggles · · Score: 4, Insightful

      See, what happened to those days was that gradually, colleges realized they could keep raising prices past what the government could pay, because they knew families of students could pay more. Colleges built palaces to "education", dormitories with gold plated faucets, gymnasiums, new buildings that were completely unnecessary simply because they could. All the while, tuition kept going up - the government saw that tuition was increasing at universities, so they'd raise the amount of subsidy, then the college would raise tuition above that to the point where families were bled just as much as before. Eventually, the bottom dropped out, the government said enough is enough, and held or dropped subsidies. Colleges, so used to 10% pay raises for tenured professors and unwilling to live with 20 year old dorms, screamed - "they're cutting our funding!" - so they just saddle their students with the maximum loan allowance they can - because they know they can get it - just to keep the gravy train coming. The more the government allows students to borrow, the more money colleges will charge.

      It's economics at work. It's called Rent Seeking Behavior. If there is money to be gotten, it will be.

      Here's a journal paper someone wrote on it.

      Here's a bunch of resources on this from a think tank.

    15. Re:In civilized countries... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 1

      ... and in the United States, we have most of the best universities in the world.

      As a United Statsian with experience in universities on both sides of the pond, your statement is quite laughable. Prestigious != 'most of the best'

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    16. Re:In civilized countries... by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      World War 2 dragged the U.S. out of recession. Since then, the military and all the ecosystem surrounding it has become a cornerstone of U.S. economy The modern idea is not to win wars, but to have perpetual war. A reason to pump all that tax money into U.S. arms industries, making some people rich and allowing many others to keep their jobs; workers, engineers, managers, contractors, lobbyists.

      To enable this "economic system" that puts money into military instead of more productive endeavors or social welfare, you need a constant threat. A constant legitimacy to put money into defense and a patriotic citizenship to go along with it.

    17. Re:In civilized countries... by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Yes. Your millionaire breeding grounds are popular for those who can afford them, further enforcing the enormous divide between rich and poor that exists in the U.S.

      The other 98% get left behind.

    18. Re:In civilized countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You might want to look at how many foreign students also pay to go to schools in other countries as well. Canada, for instance, is big for this.

    19. Re:In civilized countries... by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make any sense. Why would Europeans even think about going to American schools if the ones in their "civilized countries" are so much better?

    20. Re:In civilized countries... by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I think the term you're looking for is [url=http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later]Eisenhower's Military-Industrial Complex[/url], which he gave a stern and grave warning about as his last words before he left office.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    21. Re:In civilized countries... by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      We also have several very good engineering schools, though I suspect that isn't what you or the post that you replied to were talking about. Despite that, I still think "most of the best universities in the world" is an overstatement.

    22. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Back when we used to win wars instead of getting locked into fruitless decade-long quagmires, we also managed to subsidize college tuition more than we do now....

      Haven't we had a continued presence in Europe for 70 years now? Our presence in Japan has been a few years short of that too.

      South Korea has sucked up resources for 60?

      The only reason we are not in Vietnam is because we got booted out when we surrendered/lost or whatever that was.

      So we seem to do this quite a bit.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    23. Re:In civilized countries... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      You mean in the US, you can get the best university degrees that money can buy.....

      --
      bickerdyke
    24. Re:In civilized countries... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      World War 2 dragged the U.S. out of recession. Since then, the military and all the ecosystem surrounding it has become a cornerstone of U.S. economy The modern idea is not to win wars, but to have perpetual war. A reason to pump all that tax money into U.S. arms industries, making some people rich and allowing many others to keep their jobs; workers, engineers, managers, contractors, lobbyists.

      Actually, what WWII did was show that deficit spending does help fix the economy. The thing is, the Great Depression was aggravated by the fact the feds decided to slow down spending to keep deficits down, which turns out to be the completely wrong thing. You need to stimulate the economy, and WWII did it through immense deficit spending and bond offerings..

      Of course, it helped that the spending was for something sought to be "required" (i.e., we need to fight!) rather than trying to spread out the money. Easier to incur great debt buying tanks and soldiers and all that - it's just a lot less hassle when you're dealing with people who don't want to incur more debt.

      Similarly, the war on terror started right after the dot-com crash, again, spending your way out of recession. Then you spend your way out of recession in 2008, and everyone complains, because there's no war to force spending and incur debt.

      Of course, the thing is, war after a little while becomes a drain on resources - see the low growth after the dot-com crash as war spending sapped trillions out of the economy.

      War is just the easiest way to force deficit spending during recessionary times, otherwise you get tea partiers wanting to spend less causing the recession to deepen.

    25. Re:In civilized countries... by pooh666 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you didn't post that as anon so you could make your point? Can you prove you didn't? What was that point again? I think it is the GOP who likes to call anyone who as a different opinion, a "Bigot" On the thoughtful post from bobbied, the U.S. does seem to do this a lot. I think the U.S. almost has an overkill factor in terms of "security" as a result. What is it something like 60 countries we have some form of military assistance agreement with? I don't think you have to be a so called conservative to look at the money being spent and wondering a little at what else that could have purchased. There is no question though, Military power is followed by economic opportunity, so that calculation is going to be a pretty complex one, not just dollars for missile system A in exchange for infrastructure program B.

    26. Re:In civilized countries... by TheSync · · Score: 1

      World War 2 dragged the U.S. out of recession.

      WW2 reduced private spending. The private component of GDP fell after 1941, and while the war lasted, private output never recovered to its pre-Pearl Harbor level. In 1943, real private GDP was 14% lower than it had been in 1941.

      It was the end of WW2 (and perhaps co-indicdent with the destruction of Fascism and death of FDR, both large concerns of business leaders before the war) that allowed private spending to return to pre-war levels.

      There were actually some economists who thought that the end of WW2 would plunge the world into another Great Depression due to the end of massive government defense spending. US government spending was cut nearly in half from 1945 ($118B) to 1947 ($57B). But the private economy boomed after WW2 despite the dramatic cuts in government spending.

    27. Re:In civilized countries... by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      The European presence can be seen as victory acquisitions which allow for a more global reach of the US military force projection.

      On the other hand, the cease fire in Korea was signed without notifying the South Koreans first - UN has itself to blame for a non-decisive conclusion there. Of course the flip side would have been a commitment to victory which had the potential for cost and escalation beyond anything anyone other than the South Koreans were willing to pay (discussing the possible ways of deterring the Chinese from sending three soldiers for every gun into North Korea is what got MacArthur canned).

    28. Re:In civilized countries... by Calavar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those are terrible counterexamples, because US investments in Europe, South Korea and Japan easily payed themselves back a thousand fold. The cold war was really a form of modern mercantilism. Whereas 18th century mercantilist empires took raw materials from their dependent nations and sent back manufactured goods, 20th century mercantilists (the US, and to a lesser extent the USSR) built silos abroad and sold arms and bonds to their dependent nations. In return the US got enormous shares of stock in companies like Renault, Dassault, Volkswagen, Daimler, Samsung, and Nippon, sources of cheap manufactured goods, and Iranian oil (Saudi oil after the Shah was overthrown).

      We Americans like to pretend that we have the largest economy in the world because our parents and grandparents were harder working, more intelligent, and more creative than foreigners. The reality is that we are on top because we were the only nation to come out of the second world war unscathed (thanks you, Atlantic Ocean), and we used that position to take advantage of everyone else.

      Winning wars = winning money. Fighting 13+ year unwinnable wars = losing money, but that is a separate issue.

    29. Re:In civilized countries... by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      That's not what I remember about Marx

    30. Re:In civilized countries... by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Force of habit. Honestly I'm a little surprised that Slashdot doesn't parse BBcode these days.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    31. Re:In civilized countries... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      It is here too, through high school.. But *college* education *shouldn't* be fully paid. Why should *I* pay for *your* education for a higher ed degree to get a better job? Why don't you pay for it yourself, or your parents pay for it (I personally think it's part of parents' duty to pay for their kids college)?

      (BTW, yes, I did go to a UC. So I realize you can claim hypocrisy.. but my taxes are already paying for part of that for others.. Just not "fully tax-paid".)

    32. Re:In civilized countries... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Why do people from all over the world keep coming to U.S. universities?

    33. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      That's you response?
      Yeah, Putin a power hungry expansionist, clearly that was caused by social education programs.

      That tells me you don't really have an argument.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    34. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's becasue BBCodes are the lamest and most unnecessary product of the internet?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    35. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, thats why the government should spend when the economy is bad, and reduces when ti's good.

      We have centuries of data showing that in several large economic power houses.
      But when uneducated pundits get involved misinforming people it has become a political topic as opposed to a fact based decision.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    36. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. You conclusion is far from logical, and you have no clue what socialism means.

      American capitalistic anti-Russian propaganda from the 50s-70's is still at work, it seems.

        Henri de Saint-Simon came up with socialism as an opposite to individualism. Individualism being the false dea that everyone is isolated and don't impact the lives of others.

      Karl Marx, note the 'K', came up with, wait for it...Marxism. dun dun duuuuuun

      I learned the in public school. I guess that's the advantage of being educated in the American Public system before 'conservatives' started spreading lies and FUD in order to stop funding it properly.
      To compensate for inflation, the average cost per child should be double what it currently is.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    37. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Let me know when we remove the insurance companies from the equation. Then we can begin to think about comparing the American Health care system to good health care systems

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    38. Re:In civilized countries... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I would like to see 0 percent interest loans of college.
      We are likle to make more tax revenue later form a good education.
      I wold also like to see fully funded government colleges.
      Everything you like was built on education.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    39. Re:In civilized countries... by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 1

      I pay about 22% income tax on my PhD student salary of about $48000, my studies were paid by taxpayers from 1st grade all the way up to my masters degree and we get student grants which cover part of the living costs, student loans (from the state at low interest rate, not a bank) for the rest.. Tax is not high enough in my opinion, recent cuts by the current (but not for long now) right wing government have been catastrophic for our general welfare system.

    40. Re:In civilized countries... by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 1

      Because everyone should be granted the oppurtunity of higher studies, regardless of background and parents ability to pay. I don't come from a wealthy family by any means, if it wasn't for higher education being free, I would most likely have ended my education after high school, now I'm working on my PhD. A well educated populace is not only beneficial to the individuals who get the degrees, but to society as a whole.

    41. Re:In civilized countries... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      The US to the rescue! the dream of all countries mired in anti-democratic squalor. If you look around the list of recently US-"liberated" countries, even as far back as the 1950s, it could perhaps bring you back to reality.Getting the US attention is more a curse than a blessing.

    42. Re:In civilized countries... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Most prestigious, most awash with money, yes. What befuddles me is why these super-rich universities don't simply select the very best students all over the world (including the US), and don't offer them affordable tuition. They would be even better. As of now, most US universities simply perpetuate a rich class divide.

    43. Re:In civilized countries... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Only of those Europeans that have rich families. The European universities are full of European students too (and very few North Americans), usually the not-so-rich kind.

    44. Re:In civilized countries... by egranlund · · Score: 2

      Kind of funny that the journal paper on rent seeking is protected by a $44 paywall...

    45. Re:In civilized countries... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I was curious, so I did a quick search. The first result seems to indicate that 7 of the top 10 universities globally are based in the US (MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, University of Chicago, Caltech, and Princeton). The others that round out the top 10 are all UK schools. Of the top 25, the US has 14, but they start to drop off after that, gaining only 5 more in the next 25 ranks, bringing them to having 19 schools in the top 50, though that's still 11 ahead of the UK, which was next closest in the top 50, having 8 schools ranked that high.

      It seems you may be arguing that US schools aren't as well-funded as others (I'm not sure what "quality of tuition" means), and that may very well be the case, but that wasn't what the person you were responding to was talking about. They were talking about the quality of the school itself, not the "quality of tuition" which you were talking about, and in terms of the quality of the schools themselves, the US is still the (admittedly, declining) world leader, even if the schools may not be as well-funded as other world-class schools.

    46. Re:In civilized countries... by jma05 · · Score: 1

      Civilized countries are not necessarily the same as militarized countries, just as a civilized man is not the same as an armed-to-the-teeth man. We have our gentlemen and we have our soldiers.

    47. Re:In civilized countries... by markass530 · · Score: 1

      AKA 'Merica in a nutshell , Sigh . Thanks for the heads up and resources

    48. Re:In civilized countries... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Well at least the Universities with the biggest sports budgets and by far the best marketing and hype and of course ex-students who promote their universities because of course it promotes themselves by having a qualification from their. What the fuck kicking or hitting a ball around a field or dancing around wobbling your boobies and flashing your panties has to do with a quality education, I shudder to think, perhaps for pleasuring the teaching staff upon the basis of most of the freely available on the internet media surrounding that kind of subject matter.

      I'm wandering should you just go to your cheapest local college without a costly sports program to get your actual education and only spend your final semester of the final year in a more marketable university to get actual qualification. Could save a ton of debt and still have that more marketable and frame able piece of paper on the wall.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    49. Re:In civilized countries... by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      I know about the Military-Industrial-Complex. The thing is that, as soon as you mention it, many conservatives will put a label on you "socialist conspiracy nutjob" and move on. It's the truth, but many conservatives have been conditioned to shut off the critical thinking bits in their brains when certain words or phrases appear, which are dangerous to their ideals.

      Similar thing with "Bush". If you dare to suggest that the clusterfuck that is going on in Iraq right now is the result of Bush's misguided policies, the conservative brain shuts down and will start ridiculing you about how everything is Bush's fault. If you want to reach out to conservatives you have got to learn how to get across information without using any of these trigger words.

    50. Re:In civilized countries... by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      They work at least, hell even slashdot coped out and stopped requiring <br> or <p> (just after I had learnt to use <p> in slashdot comments, grrr) and now parses pressing "Enter".
      I guess that's evil but there are a lot less comments that failed to contain newlines.

    51. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Not that I trust Wikipedia on everything...

      When you look at the Wikipedia page on Socialism you will find Marx discussed in the Social and Political section, so where Socialism encompasses more than Marxism, Marxism is indeed socialism at its core. As Wikipedia articles go, this one isn't too bad. Read if for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    52. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Never the less, we have remained in captured territory for decades, which looked a lot like "quagmires" of the previous post.

      We have stayed in various locations world wide as a matter of routine, the strategic reasons for why where not in question. Of course, we could argue about the advisability of departing Iraq and Afghanistan where we have simply unilaterally withdrawn. The current events in Iraq seem to say it is/was a bad idea.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    53. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      No, I'm saying "in general" they don't. There are the gifted few who will work just because, but the majority will fall to the temptation to be lazy if you make it easy to do so.

      I'm further saying, that you will have a more productive society if folks are self reliant and not prone to dependency.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    54. Re:In civilized countries... by BForrester · · Score: 1

      Why do people from all over the world keep coming to U.S. universities?

      See the parent post: prestige. Attendance at those institutions is one of the shiniest resume items that can be earned/bought/bartered.

      When someone tells me that they attended an Ivy League institution, I immediately think, "Wow. You must be really smart and/or rich and/or connected."

    55. Re:In civilized countries... by BForrester · · Score: 1

      This, exactly.

      The US entry into WWII had just as much to do with incurring minimal damage as it did with ensuring that the allied nations were sufficiently depleted that they would need to lean on the US for their recovery.

      The trope that the US won WWII is ridiculous and myopic. They won the entire post-war long game.

    56. Re:In civilized countries... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      But if we have such a crappy educational system (and people seem to think we have had for a long time), why hasn't the prestige gone away?

    57. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Um, where are you getting that from? While the general drift is reasonable, I don't know of tenured professors getting regular 10% raises. That way, they'd soon be well compensated for their workload and educational requirements. I don't know of dorms at the University of Minnesota that are less than 20 years old. I've never heard of gold-plating anything mere students would use. (Or mere faculty. That would be reserved for top administrators and football coaches.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    58. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Europe and Japan are not quagmires. The cost of the bases is far lower than the cost of trying to occupy an area during an active insurgency.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    59. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The US had an unusually large economy before WWII, partly masked by the Depression. A lot of that "largest economy" stuff had nothing to do with any war, and more to do with a very large unified capitalistic economic system.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    60. Re:In civilized countries... by Calavar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, in retrospect, I think I should have mentioned that there were other factors. The US was already a very large economy by 1900, mostly due to rapid population growth, absurdly cheap land, and a wealth of unexploited natural resources. (But not because of American Exceptionalism. That is a myth that needs to die.) My post mainly explains how the US beat out the other economic powerhouses of the pre-war world: the UK, France, Japan, and especially Germany. If it wasn't for the world wars, these nations would still be superpowers.

    61. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to argue the active insurgency issue, but one needs to carefully consider what's behind that before you pull up tent stakes and head home. In the case of Iraq, the insurgency was a proxy for groups OUTSIDE Iraq. In this case it was a pay a little bit to deal with it now or be forced to pay a LOT more later, a president who only cares about politics and his legacy does trash like this hoping the debt won't come due on his watch. They hoped that later was after 2016.

      Seems later is fast approaching....

      We paid dearly for Europe and Japan by the way. The Normandy landing and the various islands in the south pacific cost tens of thousands of lives from just the US military alone. Europe and Russia paid with millions of lives. So even though the type of warfare was different, the costs of war can be and are high. What really happened in Iraq is we got tired of the drip drip drip of taking casualties all the time so we decided to run. It's not that we lost huge numbers, we didn't, even during an insurgency and near civil war. We just where not committed to seeing it though and left for political reasons.... Soon we will be back for political reasons, and we will pay an even more dear price...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    62. Re:In civilized countries... by wiggles · · Score: 1

      The gold plated faucets comment was merely hyperbole for effect - intending to signify they were spending way more than they needed to. Really, they were just spending too much money on new buildings, perks for top administrators and football coaches, and other 'status' projects.

    63. Re:In civilized countries... by wiggles · · Score: 1
    64. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I generally agree, but it's been over 70 years since 1939, and I'd expect France, in particular, to be forced out of superpower status by now, just by not having the economy to support it, and probably also the UK. Japan did develop the economy after WWII, and Germany is just large enough (particularly if we consider the 1914 boundaries) that it might have kept that status.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    65. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So you blame Obama for leaving Iraq on Bush's schedule?

      From my point of view, Iraq is merely Vietnam spelled in Arabic. No matter how long we stay, the Iraqi government will rely on US support, and when we leave it will face challenges. Staying there forever is really expensive and ties up a lot of US military power and costs a lot of money. They're not worth it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    66. Re:In civilized countries... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but I've got a soft spot for the professors. If the colleges are going to spend more, I'd rather they did it on academics and research, rather than what you just said. You seemed to be lumping them in with the problem.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    67. Re:In civilized countries... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      So you blame Obama for leaving Iraq on Bush's schedule?

      Sure, why not, but I'm pretty sure Bush didn't figure we would have ZERO assets left in country, but that we would turn control of Iraq back to the Iraq government. I seem to recall Bush saying that the war on terror would last for decades, Obama has surrendered on that war. Iraq is just the latest indication that Obama has failed to chart a reasonable course. Last year's "Arab spring" was just the start of some really bad actors taking control of large swaths of the world. We will pay for this here in the USA, maybe not today or next week, but though the next few decades. The people of the countries that we just stood by and did nothing when they needed help will pay dearly, more dearly than us. This is BAD, really BAD.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  5. What is the business class limitation by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Was this suppose to be a joke? Or would Starbucks want more B-School majors in their workforce?

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:What is the business class limitation by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Was this suppose to be a joke? Or would Starbucks want more B-School majors in their workforce?

      They, like most businesses that do better when the economy as a whole is doing better, have a vested interest in more people throughout the society having some sort of actual clue about how businesses operate, what money is, where jobs come from, that sort of thing.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:What is the business class limitation by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Starbuck's CEO Schultz is a smart cookie. He realizes while raising the minimum wage will ameliorate the problem, it is ultimately not a solution. Wages for low-skill jobs are low because of simple supply/demand economics. Too many unskilled workers + not enough jobs for them = low wages for them.

      Schultz recognizes that the ultimate solution is to change this supply/demand balance. Technological progress means low-skilled jobs are disappearing, so the only avenue available is to reduce the number of unskilled workers. We need to educate them so that they are no longer unskilled or low-skilled.

      So the whole point of this program is to educate people in a medium-skill or high-skill job. That way they are able to get a better, higher-paying job, removing themselves from the supply of unskilled workers, thus helping to naturally increase wages for unskilled workers.

      The point of this program is not to let you get a degree in something you think is "fun" or "always wanted to do" with zero regard for its applicability or usefulness to society (the mistake most kids make when their parents are paying for their education). You're supposed to study so you can get a job which takes some skill, but is readily available and useful to society, and hopefully you enjoy doing.

      You see, while raising the minimum wage alters the income distribution, it is a zero-sum proposition (possibly even negative-sum, as it eliminates some low-end jobs). It does not increase the net productivity of the population, so it is merely dividing the pie a different way. OTOH, educating people for a higher-skill job increases their productivity - it makes the pie bigger, and is thus the preferable solution.

    3. Re:What is the business class limitation by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      You make the same mistake on calculating minimum wage as every other person who would rather see it removed completely. The US government engineers inflation on purpose. Whether this is a good idea or not is irrelevant because it is what is happening. That means, if we don't (and in fact we don't) at the very least, peg minimum wage to inflation, then we are in fact lowering the minimum wage year after year. Worse yet, it is at at compounding rate. This means that any argument against raising the minimum wage is in practice an argument that there should be no minimum wage at all.

      The other part of your argument is also flawed. We already see the education bubble causing businesses to require degrees for jobs that were done just as well in the past by people who did not spend 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars on a degree. We simply do not have enough high skill jobs to employ 300 million people. We also do need lots of people in those unskilled positions. The reason that those unskilled jobs can pay so low is because you not only have all of the non-degreed people trying to get them, but you also have a large portion of the degreed population seeking out the same low skill jobs because their simply are not enough high skill jobs to employ them. Thus, having even more people becoming degreed does not mean more people will earn more money.

      More likely the reason that this is happening is because the qualifying courses appear to be online courses. This means the courses are incredibly cheap for ASU to offer. My guess would be that Starbucks is paying pennies on the dollar for these courses compared to normal, in person courses at ASU. ASU would not want to offer these on the open market, as it would undermine their existing revenue sources. So, they "partner" with Starbucks. Starbucks gets to offer what appears to be $10k of dollars in benefits to part time employees while paying almost nothing for it, while ASU gets to sell low cost courses without cutting into their current revenue stream. It is win/win for Starbucks and ASU. Actually it is win/win/win. Since at worst the Starbucks employee gets his club card (which is all many degrees actually end up offering), and at best, the employee actually gets to learn something while getting their club card.

    4. Re:What is the business class limitation by will_die · · Score: 1

      No but Starbucks wants to employ the upper end of the no to low skill work force.
      By offering school it thinks it can get more people in that range to apply even if they never follow through with taking the classes.

  6. Serious degrees by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is good news for all the departments of gender studies and theater programs.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Online? by qpqp · · Score: 2

    The benefit is through a partnership with Arizona State University's online studies program. [emphasis added]

    Really? Wow. Great, but WTF?
    They get free online courses? These are only a google (or itunes U) search away regardless of this partnership.

    1. Re:Online? by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 2

      The difference is that ASU will actually confer a degree for all that online classwork, provided the student gets good enough grades. Once can even obtain degrees in EE or CS through their online program. The main thing the student misses out on is campus life.

  8. also tech / IT can use trades / apprenticeship mod by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    IT needs more of an trades / apprenticeship model to learning.

    at some schools there is to much theory and big skill gaps in the areas covering more of the day to day skills. Yes some theory is good but parts of it are not really that useful vs learning more hands on skills in the field.

    Trying to put IT work, networking both WAN and LAN, hardware work, cableing, codeing, QA, research, and others all into CS is bad as some areas need to have there own track and some are very hands with skills that you need to do in an real setting to learn them.

    IT has a lot of on going ongoing education but it's time frame is an poor fit for the older College system time tables.

    Internships are to hit and miss Apprenticeships are more of formal and last for an extended period of time and have more applicable skills

  9. only one school and does it transfer both ways? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    only one school and does it transfer both ways?

  10. IRS Rules by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    Is Starbucks also going to pay the employees' income tax on the amount of annual tuition benefit in excess of $5250?

    1. Re:IRS Rules by hurfy · · Score: 1

      I think the newspaper article said $6500 out of about $20k for 2 year degree so that would be less. Not sure why the linked article says all, too lazy to search for a tie-breaker.

  11. Self serving... by jpellino · · Score: 1

    pun intended, given the amount of coffee consumed by college students, this is potentially a net win for SB.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  12. Re:My employer won't hire... by jpellino · · Score: 1

    Smells like a de facto presumption of guilt. Every resume is open to fraud, absent verification. So you verify. Your employer could - I dunno - step up and interview the applicant and find out of they really know their stuff?

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  13. what are the developers from theory loaded schools by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    what are the developers from theory loaded schools like?

  14. Re:My employer won't hire... by NoKaOi · · Score: 1

    My employer won't hire a person with an online degree. They are open to fraud by people paying someone for college papers and taking tests.

    Sorry, but that's just stupid. Yes, possession of any degree by itself certainly shouldn't be a sole decision making factor in choosing to hire somebody, and I would certainly be more suspicious of an online degree, although that would also depend on what institution the degree is from and what the degree is in. Of course, if the online degree was from some bogus institution that's not properly accredited, then I don't consider that a degree, I consider that fraud, but we're talking about a degree from ASU here, not the Babylonian Online College of Bullshittery. I've also dealt with people with brick-and-mortor degrees that were completely incompetent too. That's what the rest of the resume and in particular the interview is for, so you can figure out if they're legit or not.

    Your employer could be missing out on some really intelligent people who might be a great fit for the company. There are lots of reasons to get an online degree vs. brick-and-motor, for example, if you don't want or can't afford to quit your existing job, if you have young kids, etc.

    Perhaps instead of having blanket disqualifications like that, your employer should work on their interviewing skills. There might even be some online classes they could take for that.

  15. "Licensed" stores not include (40% of stores) by RichMeatyTaste · · Score: 1

    Just a FYI this covers only company stores, not "licensed" stores (which aren't run by Starbucks, and comprise about 40% of locations). Per: http://www.businessinsider.com... (that being said, good for them).

    --


    Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
  16. Re:IRS Rules / Discount Rate by theNAM666 · · Score: 1

    Given that Starbucks is bringing more revenue to ASU, want to take a guess at how much Starbucks will actually be paying ASU for this benefit (if anything)? It can't be 50%. I doubt 25%. If I'd have been Starbucks, I'd have asked ASU to pay for the marketing.

  17. How many people will actually use this? by theNAM666 · · Score: 1

    How many qualifying Starbucks employees already have undergrad degrees?
    How much is Starbucks playing ASU per pupil (if anything)?
    What's the value (if any) of an ASU online degree (better than Phoenix, but...)?
    What percentage and raw number of Starbucks employees, will choose an ASU online degree over a more traditional degree?

    I'd love if the answers to those questions made this program look great, but I doubt they will, or that the cost of the program is more than its marketing value as calculated by the beancounters in Starbucks' corporate offices.

  18. Very neat by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    I have no intention to take away from the good-will intentions here. What Starbucks is providing is very nice, and very neat. But you just know that it's profitable too right? So much is likely left out. Obviously starbucks isn't paying full price, business relationships are discounted all the time. And obviously the university is offering retail space to starbucks as a result too. In two years, you'll see government agencies giving money to starbucks for this program, especially as retail profits get channeled through this program's obvious expenses and losses, which will again save starbucks some money in the form of taxes. They'll likely also have avenues where they qualify as a charity, or as an educational agency. And since they are funding later-year students (only teasing early-year students) they'll wind up getting employees who plan to finish university, which means they'll get higher-quality employees from the start -- for those four years at least. And parents won't argue with students working more if that's what's paying for the school.

    It's a great business tactic in every way.

  19. Breaking - Employees over 20hrs a week to benefit by BlueGMan · · Score: 1

    In other news, Starbucks to adjust work schedules to 19hrs a week.

    --
    "The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing