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Even In Digital Photography Age, High Schoolers Still Flock To the Darkroom

v3rgEz writes: In the age of camera-equipped smart phones and inexpensive digital cameras, many high schoolers have never seen a roll of film or used an analog camera — much less developed film and paper prints in a darkroom. Among those that have, however, old school development has developed a serious cult following, with a number of high schools still finding a dedicated audience for the dark(room) arts.

31 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. It's the chemicals.. by ewhenn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Students still like to huff them. Really, can you blame them? A small, dark, and enclosed space is perfect for this!

    1. Re:It's the chemicals.. by relisher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I find this really offensive. I love to use film because of the imperfection that's so natural, not the chemicals. Not all high schoolers are druggies

    2. Re:It's the chemicals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think the chemicals have affected your joke detection.

    3. Re:It's the chemicals.. by war4peace · · Score: 2

      A film roll is an artificial construct. How is that "natural" in any way, shape or form? Furthermore, digital pictures have plenty of imperfections, unless you use a really-REALLY good one, and even then you have to know what you're doing. With 99% of my snapshots looking horrible, I kind of am an expert in that particular field :=)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    4. Re:It's the chemicals.. by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 2

      He huffed, but he didn't inhale.

      --
      I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    5. Re:It's the chemicals.. by flyneye · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its natural because the students are using the darkroom to smoke pot and screw. Film? Yeah, whatever...

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
  2. It's the darkness... by Zanadou · · Score: 2

    Guess what teenagers like to do in the dark, away from the teacher's supervision?

    1. Re:It's the darkness... by fleabay · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about you and I find a dark room, and see what develops?

    2. Re:It's the darkness... by monkeyhybrid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Depends what you intend exposing.

  3. It's a hipster thing by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

    My local bookstore has cut back heavily on its offering of books, since apparently it can't make much money off of them in a post-literary age when what books are read can be bought for cheaper online. To fill the void, it has expanded its choice of what I can only describe as hipster accoutrement, such as ECM on vinyl, Moleskine notebooks, and fancy tea sets.

    But the most surprising item was Lomo cameras: these are selling like hotcakes, in spite of the fact that they use old-fashioned film. I would have imagined no one wanted to deal with the expense of giving film to a photo lab (I live in an Eastern European country where this costs serious money) or the hassle of developing it themselves, but when marketed as a trendy thing, some people are ready to turn back from digital.

    1. Re:It's a hipster thing by zmooc · · Score: 2

      It's not (only) a hipster thing; it's mostly a budget thing. Many photographers want to work with a properly large camera (35mm full frame, medium format (60x60mm) etc. Since most of us don't have the budget to shell out at least several thousand bucks up to well over $10K for a proper camera, our only option to get large format quality is to use old school film.

      Said differently: digital has only surpassed film quality in a cost-effective way for very small sensors and/or large volumes of photographs (where the cost of developing film starts to become a factor).

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
  4. Re:BTW: Only way to prevent digital source-trackin by CRCulver · · Score: 2

    Paranoid much? Outside of smartphones, digital cameras don't usually have GPS functionality: that is a feature one has to shop around for. And the JPG files produced by a camera, even one with a GPS feature, are not exactly obfuscated labyrinths of DRM: you can easily view and edit the EXIF and XMP metadata, and if you want to really be sure of what's in the file, the binary format is quite straightforward.

  5. Re:BTW: Only way to prevent digital source-trackin by sexconker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Consider how iphones put date/location info on pictures. They could also be doing it in a secret way. The only way to be sure your camera isn't "telling on you" by secretly tagging/watermarking your photo with personally identifiable information is to start with a filmy and process it yourself. Therefore, the darkroom is actually a way of maintaining privacy... who knew...? :-)

    Or you could just take the pictures your digital camera gives you and rip out the meta data.
    If you're implying the use of steganography, then you're a moron.

  6. It's an artform by al0ha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I began a career in photography in the 80s and as such I can definitely understand the kid's appeal to traditional photographic methodology, it is a true art form where skill and knowledge must be developed over time in order to achieve spectacular results. It is very gratifying to manipulate both film and chemistry in order to achieve the image you have imagined, and watch it unfold slowly in real time on paper as you swirl the chemistry over it. Good times for all, keep it up kids!

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
    1. Re:It's an artform by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      I learned photography in a darkroom in the 1980s too. Film and prints/slides are a terrible way to learn photography. You take the photo, then several days later you see the results and how you screwed up. When I went on trips, I had to keep a notebook where I wrote down the exposure settings for every photo I took, and weeks later I would cross-reference the prints with my notebook to figure out what worked and what didn't. The time constant for the feedback loop is too long for any useful learning unless you spend years at it.

      It is much better to learn with a digital camera. You take a shot, then instantly see the results. If you notice a flaw after you've downloaded the pics to your computer, you can call up the exposure information and figure out what you did wrong. Feedback is immediate and all your settings are automatically recorded for you to learn from.

      Once you've got that down, then you can fool around with old analog photography.

  7. Ansel Adams by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    Schools are probably teaching it because their staff knows how and they have the equipment. Not because it's a useful, saleable, or even particularly interesting skill.

    Allow me to introduce you to one of the great masters of the darkroom and analog photography:

    Ansel Adams, "The Tetons - Snake River"

    1. Re:Ansel Adams by sribe · · Score: 2

      While that might have been whizbang decades ago, today it's utterly commonplace for a photographer to get the same...

      Translation: you have never had the experience of seeing any of his original prints.

    2. Re:Ansel Adams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It would appear you completely missed, and still miss, the point of either of the exhibits you attended.

      Photography is about art, skill, and expression, regardless of your choice of medium. Both digital and analog bring a lot to the table in different ways depending upon what you are looking to accomplish. With respect to analog photography, there is skill and technique which goes well beyond that which would be applied to digital photography, That blurring and lighting effects you would use in photoshop, for example, would take a photographer time and patience in the darkroom to create. In its own right, most of what you take as conveniences in digital photography were in fact a things which required a proper photographic artist to create in analog photography. This in part is one of the many reasons film photographers tend to take issue with digital photographers who tout that they get better results. In digital photography, you use equipment and software which has all of the benefit of the digitization of techniques developed by the photographic artists of the past, but requiring little of the skill and training to achieve their results.

      If you choose to stand on the shoulders of those who came before you and proclaim how good your work is that's one thing, but referring to their work as complete garbage only shows how purely ignorant you are to the very art form that you claim to be defending. You may have your opinion and are welcome to it, but before insulting classic photographic artists in an attempt to defend modern photography, stop for a moment to decide how uncultured, ignorant, and arrogant you would like to be perceived.

      about : I grew up learning to shoot 110 film as a young child, later working my way through automatic 35's and SLR's up through what was and still is my favorite analog camera, an Olympus OM4-T. I presently shoot digital for casual photos and such, but still find significant value in both the experience and results of shooting and developing traditional film.

    3. Re:Ansel Adams by tezbobobo · · Score: 2

      You're a liar. Lets say they took a 40MP camera (say the Pentax 645D). That camera has a max resolution of 7264 x 5440px. Now we'll imagine that photo being blown up to the size of a SMALL wall, 2m in height, making it XX meters across. That would set the dpi at about 80dpi. Too low.

      No digital camera could get close to that size, and the only ones that would be in the running are the Phase One, Leica or Hasselblad. I've used two of those cameras, but none would be accessible to scientists in Antarctica. Maybe Nat Geo.

      To print an entire (large) wall you need at least size 120 FILM, but probably 4x5 FILM.

      So don't give me lies and 'digital is superior' bullshit. You're welcome to have that argument, but get an education first.

      And Ansel has not been 'well and truly outdone' by anyone. His style of photography isn't popular anymore, but show me a single artist who can shoot his style with a portfolio the size of his, and I'll then give you the credit you think you deserve.

  8. The teachers know ... by oneiros27 · · Score: 2

    My girlfriend in high school and I would frequently go into the dark room -- but you really didn't have much time, as the teacher knew how much time things should take, and would wonder why we were going in there if it wasn't to develop something. (we had a print shop, and one of the darkrooms had a vertical process camera, so we were in there quite often; the photography darkroom not so much)

    If you over developed things, he'd know you weren't watching things closely. So you could sneak a minute or two of snogging in, but that's about it.

    We had darkrooms where the door revolveds, so there wasn't any way to let light from the outside into the darkroom. You learned to keep the door towards the inside, so you had a couple seconds of warning.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  9. Re:BTW: Only way to prevent digital source-trackin by plover · · Score: 2

    If you're implying the use of steganography, then you're a moron.

    He probably is a tinfoil hat conspiracy loon, however, there is a grain of truth to what he is saying. Digital camera sensors can have a unique fingerprint. Dead pixels, model specific JPG quantization tables, sensor size, all these things can help a digital forensic analyst match a camera to the photos it's taken. The same is harder to prove with an analog camera.

    --
    John
  10. The actual appeal by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's comparable to the resurgence of interest in vinyl records. The only worthy attraction is in the sheer retro-ness of it. It certainly isn't in the quality; a good DLSR today is an amazing tool, capable of far more than yesterdays SLRs in every area but outright spectral retargeting (IE, you can put IR film in an SLR and go -- an IR sensor of equal quality, not so much), and that includes in ultimate image quality in normal regimes. Even as far as developing goes, modern software has made the range of actions and remediation one can pull off in the darkroom look like a tiny collection of beginner's moves.

    I do not regret, not even one little bit, no longer having to do the tray-and-line dance with my work. Furthermore, I shoot more, and better, with my DSLR than I could ever have hoped to accomplish with any SLR I ever owned.

    Up until the current generation of DSLRs, I always felt that I wasn't *quite* there. But today, I literally have no reason to look back. I have to hand it to Canon, Nikon, etc... they've done a great job. Between the quality obtainable, the ability to go out and shoot a thousand *good* images without changing "film", the incredible range of usable ISO (sensitivity to light), in-camera preview -- and disposal -- so you actually know what you have while you're still on-site and able to try again, to readily available histograms and after-the-fact white balance... and then "developing" with Aperture or Lightroom... I'll take a DSLR every time.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:The actual appeal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's comparable to the resurgence of interest in vinyl records. The only worthy attraction is in the sheer retro-ness of it. It certainly isn't in the quality...

      This bit about vinyl is plainly wrong, and I wouldn't blame someone for stopping right there and disregarding the rest of your comment completely. The quality of analog vinyl vs digital format audio is hotly debated, and vinyl has a strong following among audiophiles. There's something to be said for the listening experience that goes along with becoming familiar with discernable differences between digital and analog formats. I won't go so far as to say that digital audio *can't* be indistinguishable from or even surpass the quality of existing analog audio technology, but there's no question that a lot of digital reproductions fall short of their analog counterparts that were produced from the same master recording. The interest goes deeper than sheer retro-ness, for sure.

      As for film, the same holds true but for a different reason. There's something to be said for the experience of using an analog tool to create a work of art as opposed to using a digital tool to create and manipulate in a digital and precise manner. There's not much else to say about it, other than the simple fact that, in an artistic context, the fascination runs a lot deeper than the sheer retro-ness of it. I'm glad you've found reasons to love digital photography, and I won't deny that I prefer it as well...but don't overdo it when it comes to disparaging old technology.

    2. Re:The actual appeal by Zeek40 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People who describe themselves as audiophiles tend to be the kind of people who think that spending > $1000 for a speaker wire will improve the quality of their sound. They're really not worth paying attention to.

    3. Re:The actual appeal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's an ugly stereotype. Partial truth, of course, but it's not a reason for out of hand dismissal of the perspectives of those who identify as audiophiles at large. Don't be a dick.

    4. Re:The actual appeal by Camembert · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not everyone is crazy like that. Many want simply to get a realistic sound reproduction, something you can quite plainly not get from all the little plastic multimedia boxes or bose all in one system.
      It must be said that a good quality vinyl record played on good equipment can sound nicely musical. Sometimes better than the cd, but this is often because there is usually less "loudness war" (overcompression) on vinyl compared to many popular music cd masterings.
      This was the case with one of the last 5 Bob Dylan albums (I can't remember which one), everyone could hear on the same system that the rare vinyl edition did sound noticeably more musical, and the fault was purely in the compression used in the CD mastering process.

    5. Re:The actual appeal by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 2

      Actually (and IAAP I Am A Photographer), I disagree, not because digital isn't a film replacement, film is great for learning, full stop.. I see this all the time when people ask me for help in how to take pictures.

      What happens when you give a newbie a digital camera that can shoot noiseless 30MP pics at ISO 64,000? You end up with a thousand snaps of a thousand angles of their dog they took last night.

      So now someone I'm teaching photo skills to someone going broke because every day they're buying another hard drive.

      Solution? Give 'em a film camera. You can get a Pentax K1000 for $50 these days, with 1 50mm lens (no zooming!).

      Now that they only have 36 shots, and each one costs maybe $0.40 when you factor in film + developing costs. And at this point people learn some discipline. Before you click the shutter, you should see in your head what the photo will be. And take just one (awesome) picture.

      On top of that, playing in the dark room gives you a much better feel for concepts like contrast. Do you know why that dark red filter adds contrast, mr. digital camera man? Bet you didn't learn that from your Nikon D800...

  11. it's retro by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    It's retro. Retro is big right now.

    Daughter graduated from high school two years ago. She took darkroom, created pinhole cameras, and later got a Holga. It's called Lomography, and it's become quite popular. Just recently she acquired a very old twin lens reflex and is experimenting with that.

    One of the advantages is that old school cameras use 120 and 220 film, a format that's still being propped up by the wedding photography industry. So film and developing are readily available, at least for now.

    One issue is that old passive handheld light meters degrade over time, and new handheld meters are kinda expensive. You almost need a modern camera to take light readings in order to accurately set up the retro camera.

    I see this as the photography equivalent of the resurgence of LP records.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  12. Its the magic by Vegigami · · Score: 2

    Throwing an exposed piece of apparently blank photo paper into a clear liquid bath and having a picture appear some 20 or so seconds later is about as close to true magic as you're likely to get. Its quite a thrill the first time you see it.

    --


    I can tell you the meaning of life,
    but you have to promise not to laugh.
  13. There is nothing, and I mean nothing... by jpellino · · Score: 2

    like seeing that print appear before your very eyes in a tray of developer.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  14. The Audio Scoop by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The thing about analog sound devices have always been that they sound warm and pleasant under most settings.

    Nonsense. When run in their linear range, which is to say, where they are designed to normally run, analog devices, be they tubes, fets or bipolar transistors, all follow the input signal faithfully, plus or minus inherent noise -- no "warmth" or other characteristics are inherent. *NONE*. Digital also.

    However, when a tube is pushed into its nonlinear range, the gain transfer curve bends over comparatively smoothly so that what would be a clipped signal in a device like a bipolar transistor, turns first into a compressed signal, and even later down the curve, begins to evidence distortion that resembles clipping, but has, because of that still-somewhat-gentle curve, an entirely different set of dominant harmonics as compared to, for instance, a bipolar transistor at or near saturation.

    That characteristic is why (knowledgable) musicians who use distortion as a tonal tool typically prefer tubes; specifically because they *do* run the tubes out of the linear area of the transfer curve, and the result is interesting and often pleasing. When the distortion is the result of a transfer curve that abruptly goes from highly linear to highly nonlinear, as is the case with bipolar devices, the result is most unpleasant.

    However, this choice does not *ever* hold true for a musical reproduction system based on tubes that isn't running in a range that will distort the music. You'd have to turn it up so far that one or more elements of the preamp or power amp is pushed past the linear part of its transfer curve, and then *everything* distorts -- and that's not a "warm" sound, that's a "hey, your system is sucking, turn that thing down" sound.

    So, for example, if I get out my Les Paul or my Strat and plug it into a tube amp, I'm doing so because the amp's distortion is going to very significantly color the reproduction of what I play. I'm going to adjust the amp specifically so I *get* distortion. It'll sound fabulous. I'll get feedback, there will be awesome weirdnesses when I hit harmonics on my strings, pick and fretting artifacts will sound very different, etc. When I record this as accurately as possible, however, and subsequently play it back on a musical reproduction system of ANY kind, I am NOT going to adjust that system so that it distorts, because I don't want MORE distortion, I want exactly, and I mean *exactly*, what I recorded. All the more so when it's my guitar plus drums, bass and vocals. Etc. Adjusting a music reproduction system doing that task so that it distorts is the act of a madman or a masochist. Tube, transistor or digital whatever completely aside, the entire objective of an audio system is to get the music to your ears without changing it in any way that degrades the transfer. So the kind of distortion the playback system would evidence if overdriven is (had better be!) utterly irrelevant.

    The fact is, a digital system, an analog bipolar system in class A or properly biased AB, and a tube system in class A or a nominal push-pull configuration with an output transformer all reproduce essentially the same signal in human perception terms, plus or minus noise. But noise is a significant factor with tube designs. Sidle up to your tweeter and listen. Hear that hiss? That's coming from the tubes themselves. Now do the same with a 24- or 32-bit prepro and an amp with a 110db noise floor, like a Marantz MA700. Viola! No audible noise at the tweeter. It's there, but it's so blinking minuscule, you can't perceive it. Entirely a good thing.

    So the whole "audiophile" trip about tube amps being "better" is a complete confusion of something they do for musicians playing a specific instrument (ex guitar, horn, bass), which they do not usefully do for general sound reproduction, because, and hear me on this, music consisting of more than one instru

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.