Slashdot Mirror


2 US Senators Propose 12-Cent Gas Tax Increase

An anonymous reader writes There are several proposals on the table to stave off the impending insolvency of the Highway Trust Fund (which pays for transit, biking, and walking projects too) in two months. Just now, two senators teamed up to announce one that might actually have a chance. Senators Bob Corker (R-TN) and Chris Murphy (D-CT) have proposed increasing the gas tax by 12 cents a gallon over two years. The federal gas tax currently stands at 18.4 cents a gallon, where it has been set since 1993, when gas cost $1.16 a gallon.

44 of 619 comments (clear)

  1. Good! by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good!

    a. Gas is much too cheap in the US.
    b. We need a lot of infrastructure work.

    Of course, I'm sure we could afford to pave all of our roads with gold, have diamond-studded bike lanes, and solid titanium sidewalks if we didn't spend half our budget on wars, but hey, I'm not holding my breath. There's not as much room for corruption in building roads in this country as there is building roads in some 3rd world country that we bombed into oblivion.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Good! by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      We need more regressive taxes in this country! Screw the poor people!

      (Yes, consumption taxes on essential goods with demand tending towards inelasticity are regressive)

      (my tinfoil hat tells me Corker likes this due to Toyota manufacturing in his state, and the increase in hybrid sales due to gas price hikes.)

    2. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too cheap?? LOL

      What makes you think the added income will go towards infrastructure? The existing taxes are already supposed to pay for that but have been diverted to various pet projects..

      Stupid much?

    3. Re:Good! by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yes. Gas is too cheap so the government must artificially raise the price.

      Umm. Fuck you.

      We have set aside funds for infrastructure. 18.4 cents of every single gallon of gas sold in the US! Where does that money actually go?

      Well over 25% of gas tax funds go to side walks and bike trails and shit like that. How about we start with this.

      States have gas taxes as well. In California I have to pay 71 cents/gal in gas taxes. Then because that is not enough sales tax on gas is calculated after the fuel tax so we get to pay sales taxes on or fuel tax.

      What do we get for this. Shit ass roads that ruin our cars. Then we have fees at the DMV.

      Money grabs are money grabs. They never make our lives better.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    4. Re:Good! by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because its more expensive in pretty much every other country

      Genius. So because it's "more expensive in pretty much every other country." One should follow that example to screw "everyone else over." As a point it's $1.42/L($5.32/Gal) Canadian where I am right now, and businesses are already jacking up the prices on everything else. If you want to cause the economy to slow to a point even worse than it is in the US right now, go right ahead. Because one only needs to look at Ontario(once the primary GDP producer of Canada) to see what high energy prices, and poor government decision making do.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's say I'm the lawnmower. Your lawn needs mowing so you pay me to do it. However, I don't mow your lawn. Instead I smear shit all over your windows.

      Your lawn still needs mowing. Will you give me even more money?

    6. Re:Good! by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the tax needs to be a percentage tax.

      I agree that our infrastructure is suffering due to lack of funding.
      Adjusted for inflation, this tax has lost almost 75% of the purchasing power it had 20 years ago.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    7. Re:Good! by bobbied · · Score: 3, Informative

      Say: "Social Security Trust Fund!" 100 times, then go count the IOU's that are in it... No dollars there, we spent it all.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    8. Re:Good! by theNetImp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Other countries also have much better public transportation. Which the US lacks unless you're in a major city.

    9. Re:Good! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Have a richer middle class than the US, as of this year?

      just in case every single fact needs a link

    10. Re:Good! by Albanach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Supply and demand. If you make travel by road artificially cheap (which it is - at least 1/3 of road budgets come from general taxation) then people will drive more rather than looking for public transit alternatives. The result is those alternatives are never created and those who would otherwise rely on them, for example the disabled who are unable to drive, lose out big time.

    11. Re:Good! by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      New taxes are never the solution. Ever.

      It's good to know that you have a system as complicated as a country of hundreds of million people figured out with a single sentence. You should consider running for President. Sounds like Sarah Palin would be a perfect running mate for you!

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    12. Re:Good! by SailorSpork · · Score: 3, Informative
    13. Re:Good! by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/a...

      1993 Average income: 23,132.67
      2013 Average income: 44,321.67

      Roads and Bridges, like firefighters and law enforcement offers, are a legitimate function of government. Funding for the roads has been cut in half by inflation and the infrastructure is becoming dangerous. Especially bridges.

      If the tax had been set at 18%- then it would have scaled with gasoline prices. But with the increasing share of hybrids, much higher mileage of gasoline cars (33mpg vs 28mpg), many more trucks used for shipping (70% more in 2007 than in 1997) (roughly 15 million today vs 4 million in 1993), and now purely electric cars the tax needs to be changed to reflect today's reality.

      What we really need is to remove the gasoline tax and replace it with a mileage tax.

      I read a lot of 1850's newspapers and it's funny because with the civil war approaching, the voters and legislators then seemed more rational than our voters and legislators today.

      You *can't* *have* the roads for *free*.
      It *costs* money to build and maintain the road system.

      Grow up.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    14. Re:Good! by roninmagus · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used to be like you. "Read my lips, no new taxes!" Taxes are bad, taxes are the devil, they get so much and waste so much already. Until I became treasurer on my homeowner's board. We are required by our master deed (which is approved and registered with the city, therefore is legally binding) to provide certain services. A new regulation from Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac states that we must take on a certain expense or they will not back loans issued in our neighborhood. If they do not back the loan, then 95% of mortgage companies will not issue it because they can't sell the liability. Therefore, no one in our neighborhood can sell their home unless the buyer pays 100% cash.

      This expense represents a 35% increase in our budget. We cannot legally cut services. So we have to issue a "tax" (dues increase to the HOA) to cover the cost. The benefit to the community is that they will be able to sell their homes again--we've already seen a 20% loss in value.

      So yes, taxes are sometimes necessary. In my case it's forced from the outside. In the government's case, it could be due to waste and inefficiency but I'm willing to bet that is a very small percentage (and a study I've read of welfare waste backs this up). It could also be due to increasing population, increased infrastructure regulatory requirements, dwindling resources, etc, etc, etc.

    15. Re:Good! by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      " Because one only needs to look at Ontario(once the primary GDP producer of Canada) to see what high energy prices, and poor government decision making do."

      Indeed, everyone should try that. Some of the best test scores on the planet, one of the highest percentages of post-secondary education, billions and billions in biomed research every year, and a long, healthy life span.

      Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe if you took off the crap coloured glasses you might not thing everything stinks so much.

      Well, there is the winter...

    16. Re:Good! by GlassHeart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because a good deal of the cost of gasoline has been externalized. Below are some examples:

      1. The efforts of the US Navy to maintain peace in the middle east shipping lanes. The US consumed some 134 billion gallons of gasoline in 2013, and the budget of the US Navy is about $150 billion. It's reasonable to assume that a few cents per gallon should be charged to help pay for the Navy.
      2. The increased incidences of respiratory diseases due to air pollution. Medical care is expensive in the US, and things that harm public health should at the very least help pay for it.
      3. The costs of global warming.

      Obviously, gasoline is not the sole driver of these, but it makes sense to better account for the true cost of using gasoline. Note that the gasoline tax has not changed in absolute terms since 1993, which means it's lost about 40% of its value to inflation.

      This isn't to say that the 12 cent proposal is fair, or that sharply increasing gasoline prices is wise, but that a gradual increase to match its true cost is sensible.

    17. Re:Good! by GlassHeart · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to the CPI Inflation Calculator, 18.3 cents today is worth about 11 cents in 1993, so a loss of around 40%, not 75%. But your point stands.

    18. Re:Good! by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live in New Zealand, we apparently just posted one of the highest GDP increases in the world this year. 3.1% over the last year
      Our petrol costs $NZ2.20/L. It's been over $2 for years now.
      Tax is nearly 90c per litre.

      So what goes GDP have to do with petrol taxes again?

    19. Re:Good! by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Good!

      a. Gas is much too cheap in the US.
      b. We need a lot of infrastructure work.

      Of course, I'm sure we could afford to pave all of our roads with gold, have diamond-studded bike lanes, and solid titanium sidewalks if we didn't spend half our budget on wars, but hey, I'm not holding my breath. There's not as much room for corruption in building roads in this country as there is building roads in some 3rd world country that we bombed into oblivion.

      Personally, I would love detailed breakdown of where the current gas taxes goes. I'm willing to bet that a good portion of it goes to other programs, pet projects, and expenditures that have nothing to do with highway, bridges, transit, bike, or walking path infrastructure. In other words, I'm pretty sure that there is enough money coming in from gas taxes today. I'm also willing to bet that the Highway Trust Fund would not see the full amount of any tax hike....

      This is just another way to get people to pay more taxes.

    20. Re:Good! by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey man, maybe this tax is a good idea, but the whole "Gas is much too cheap in the US," thing is a pretty dumb thing to say. There is no such thing as "too cheap." By all means, end the gas subsidies and externalities (e.g, middle east wars, not having to pay to plant forests to soak up CO2 pollution, etc) and add any taxes that are appropriate (e.g. fuel usage and road wear maybe aren't an exact match but they're pretty close; so I'd say gax taxes to pay for highways are a pretty decent idea), but even 10 cents per gallon wouldn't be "too cheap" because nothing can ever possibly be too cheap.

      That said, gas sure is cheap. I can buy gas cheaper than I can buy Coca Cola and it's sure worth a lot more.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    21. Re:Good! by Luthair · · Score: 4, Informative

      While we're on analogies - what you're saying is you can live on a wage from 20-years ago today and ignore the inflation that has happened in that period?

      Remember that this is a fixed rate set 21-years ago, while the costs associated maintaining infrastructures have gone up. Further, cars have also became substantially more fuel efficient reducing the per km value of the tax as well without corresponding reduction of wear or demand on the infrastructure.

    22. Re:Good! by NotSanguine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Supply and demand. If you make travel by road artificially cheap (which it is - at least 1/3 of road budgets come from general taxation) then people will drive more rather than looking for public transit alternatives. The result is those alternatives are never created and those who would otherwise rely on them, for example the disabled who are unable to drive, lose out big time.

      What is more, cheap gasoline further externalizes the environmental costs of greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions. Making gasoline more expensive may cause some short-term pain, but if it gives incentives to ICE owners/users to reduce emissions, either by driving less, using electric vehicles, public transportation, etc. ICE vehicle makers will also scramble to make more fuel efficient cars. We saw this effect during and after the 1973 oil embargo.

      N.B. I live in a major US city where owning a car is a serious liability. YMMV. Pun intended.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    23. Re:Good! by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 5, Informative

      Our petrol costs $NZ2.20/L. It's been over $2 for years now.

      Translation:
      Our gasoline costs $7.24/gallon. It's been over $6.50 for years now.

    24. Re:Good! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that a gas tax is VERY regressive and hits the economy where it is the weakest:

      Yes, gas taxes are regressive, but there are ways to fix that. The best way is to reduce other regressive taxes, that often cause even more harm to the economy, to offset the gax tax rise. For instance, we could reduce payroll taxes, which tend to be very regressive. High gas taxes mean less imported oil. High payroll taxes means fewer jobs. So that would be a very good tradeoff.

    25. Re:Good! by djlemma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think a tax on gasoline is far easier to implement than a tax on mileage, and makes a lot of sense. The government wants to give incentive to high mileage vehicles and electric vehicles, so unless you have a different rate category for the mileage tax it would effectively punish them. Also, the amount of wear caused by a vehicle is proportional to its weight, so to be fair you'd need to put a higher mileage tax on heavy vehicles... That's already basically accounted for with a gasoline tax, since the heavy vehicles necessarily use more fuel, and at least for now you won't find too many EV/Hybrid semi trucks out on the road.
      I'm not necessarily opposed to having some sort of tax based on usage (based on odometer readings I suppose, which would require all states to adopt annual inspections) but I think the tax on gasoline is a necessity as well. I guess I'm the opposite of the person you were responding to. :)

    26. Re:Good! by Copid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Doesn't matter which country we buy it from specifically. Oil is a global market and disruptions in part of the supply jack up prices everywhere. I'm open to the idea that our poking a stick in the Middle East may not be generating much net stability, but on the assumption that it does, the primary reason we care about what goes on there enough to spend mony on it is that they're a big chunk of the world's oil supply.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    27. Re:Good! by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude...
      You are using inflation adjusted figures for 1993.

      Median income in 1993 was $30,210.. which adjusted for inflation is $48,884.

      In 1993, the tax was 18.4 cents.. which adjusted for inflation would be 30 cents.

      So 12 cents higher. Hmmmm. The math checks.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    28. Re:Good! by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone that moved to the US a couple of years ago but have previously lived in Europe, Japan and Australia - you guys do have very cheap fuel compared to virtually any other developed country you care to name.

      Those other countries/regions are in decreasing order of cost ... while fuel in Australia is only maybe 1.5x the cost in the US, Europe is close to 2.5-3.0x.

      The difference is of course down to the levels of taxation (the actual cost of oil/fuel itself is relatively similar everywhere on earth). But frankly, US roads are in terrible condition compared to the average road in those other regions I mentioned. I'd be glad to pay more for fuel if we could get some decent roads out of it. Most of them here in the Midwest are horribly bumpy and uneven ... patches upon patches upon patches on roads that really should have been completely ripped up and relayed years ago. I kind of understand now why cars don't seem to last as long in the US as in other countries - it's partly weather (particularly winter salt), but partly that they get slowly rattled to pieces death just by driving around!

    29. Re:Good! by Alex+Zepeda · · Score: 4, Informative

      And you'd be wrong.

      https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/motor...

      The revenue from the collected Federal fuel taxes are deposited into the Highway Trust Fund, which has several accounts. Though the percentages vary depending on the fuel type, the majority (approximately 83 to 87%) is deposited into the Highway Account, to be used on road construction and maintenance. An additional amount (approximately 11 to 15%) goes to the Mass Transit Account, and for many fuels, 0.1 cents per gallon goes to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund.

      --
      The revolution will be mocked
  2. Re:still cheap by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does your government also spend untold billions on illegal surveillance of the population, secret "black" prisons abroad, and wars against the personal freedoms of the citizens?

    If so, then yea, it's terrible that our fuel tax is so much lower than yours. If not, well, then it's really a completely different situation.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  3. Yes, let's tax the poor by iceperson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    12 cents won't affect me one bit. It certainly won't change my driving habits. The poor on the other hand.. well, let's just say if you're living on a fixed income and/or are already below the poverty line a nice big regressive tax might sting a little...

  4. Fuck. That. by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Defund the NSA, we'll have all the money we need for roads and infrastructure. And then some.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  5. Index it to inflation by bigpat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The issue with the gas tax is that it is a fixed amount per gallon and the real value falls over time with inflation. The only way for the gas tax to keep up is to index it to inflation. Otherwise you will continue to see the Highway funds periodically getting depleted until you have to pump up the tax again. Much better to permanently index the tax to inflation rather than have these periodic increases. Of course you could argue that there are better ways to tax in order to raise transportation infrastructure funds. But if you are going to stick with the gas tax, then index it.

    1. Re:Index it to inflation by Nimey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We have inflation becasue the Federal Government spends more than it takes in.

      I stopped taking you seriously right there.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Index it to inflation by xaxa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      how about a bike and feet tax instead, they should pay their side of things...

      Places for people to cycle and walk are so incredibly cheap compared to roads (and railways) that is really isn't worth bothering with a special tax to fund them.

      I can't find the Dutch document I read recently, which said the highest quality cycle+pedestrian paths at the side of a new road added less than 10% to the cost.

  6. Let's be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The government only pulled in $1,934,919,000,000 this year so there's obviously not enough to go around.

  7. Re:Take it out of the subsidies by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because that would take the cost directly out of our monied overlords' pockets. Instead, this way the peasants cover almost the whole bill and the ultra-rich don't even notice the difference.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. Should be compared to CPI by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

    The federal gas tax currently stands at 18.4 cents a gallon, where it has been set since 1993, when gas cost $1.16 a gallon.

    Since the gas tax is ostensibly for the construction and maintenance of roads and highways, it should be compared to that. The cost of maintenance and construction scale mostly according to CPI, not the price of gas. I can't think of any reason why you'd compare the tax to the price of gas unless you're deliberately trying to mislead people into thinking it needs to go up more (political arguments about energy taxes aside).

    Putting $1.16 into an inflation calculator yields $1.90 in 2014 dollars, or a 64% increase. 64% of 18.4 cents is 11.7 cents. So a 12 cent increase is exactly what's needed for the tax to keep pace with inflation.

  9. What? by s.petry · · Score: 3, Informative

    The US Government has spent over a trillion dollars funding a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, over 6 billion dollars funding a revolt in the Ukraine, at least 9 million dollars funding rebels in Syria (I have not looked at any numbers past what Obama did last September), Billions in beefing up US Local police forces, Billions more on DHS, FEMA, and the TSA, Billions more funding Egypt's various revolutions, and untold amounts in "black budgets" all over Africa. Even the GOA who is supposed to ensure accountability for spent tax dollars, spends millions on a lavish party for 33 people in Las Vegas.

    And you think average people who's salaries and average wealth has gone down by nearly 30% in the last decade alone should pay even more money because they could not spent anything on Roads and Infrastructure whilst they pissed away your money everywhere else?

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  10. Cost rise and so must funding by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Gas is too cheap so the government must artificially raise the price.

    No, infrastructure is too expensive for the funding we have in place. Gas is the best proxy we have for usage of that infrastructure so it's reasonable to tax that. More gas used means more infrastructure repairs needed and less gas used means less use of said infrastructure.

    We have set aside funds for infrastructure. 18.4 cents of every single gallon of gas sold in the US! Where does that money actually go?

    To maintain the infrastructure - duh. That's pretty much a matter of public record. It's a big country and we have a lot of crumbling roads. Furthermore 18.4 cents doesn't go as far as it did 20 years ago. In fact it is roughly equivalent to $0.11 cents in 1993 dollars once you adjust for inflation. Much of this infrastructure is paid for with federal dollars so it makes sense to tax it at the federal level.

    Well over 25% of gas tax funds go to side walks and bike trails and shit like that.

    Citation needed. That number smells like you just pulled it out from where the sun don't shine.

  11. Re: Why not? by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

    America, where poor people drive cars.

  12. Re:Bad! by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gas tax increases are a good pricing signal to increase fuel efficiency (better than CAFE standards or cash for clunkers).

    There are two philosophies behind taxation.

    One says that taxes are a necessary evil in order to pay for the things that government does. This is what the founding fathers felt. This is the reason for gas taxes in the first place: to pay for roads built by the government.

    The other says that taxation is necessary for the reduction of evil, for whatever some group currently defines as evil. You believe that the use of fossil fuels is evil, therefore the taxes should be consistently increased to force a decline in use. This is not what the gas tax was instituted for. Some people think that simple "wealth" is evil, and thus there needs to be a tax to reduce that evil.

    If we had started a decade ago today we'd have an extra 50c per gallon incentive to buy a more efficient vehicle and the insolvency of the highway trust fund would be another decade plus in the future.

    Some people in both camps are always surprised to learn that taxation is not a zero sum game, despite repeated demonstrations of that effect over the years. Simply doubling a tax does not double revenues from that tax. For example, the states that thought they'd pay for their health care systems by increasing the taxes on cigarettes have learned that increased price per pack has resulted in a decrease in revenue as more people stop smoking. Increasing the gas taxes will cause less use and less tax revenue, so it will be harder to pay for the things the gas tax is intended to pay for. Part of the decrease will be from people who buy electric cars that pay NOTHING for road use. And some of the decrease will be from people who simply stop driving, which makes the idea of a tax credit for the poor people just another way to redistribute the wealth. (Yes, that is exactly what a credit to reimburse someone for paying a regressive tax when they didn't pay that tax to begin with, is.)

    Those in the "eliminate evil" camp should realize that "Stop smoking" would be one result, since that was their goal in supporting that tax increase. And yet it is a surprise when revenues go down when fewer people pay such taxes.

    The same thing is happening with the gasoline tax. The higher the price of gas, the less of it people buy, and more electric vehicles. The less gas people buy, the less revenue from gas taxes. It is a self-defeating game, and is dishonest to start with. Usurping a tax into a social engineering tax once it is established as a "pay for services" tax is dishonest. "We need a tax to pay for ..." "Ok, now you agreed to pay for X, we should increase the tax to convince people to behave the way I want them to..."

    The correct response to "highway funding is down because of lower use of gasoline" is not "increase the tax", it is "find a way to get the other users of the roads etc. to pay for their use." A milage tax on electric vehicles, for example, and a mandatory registration fee for bicycles, perhaps. But to continually increase the costs for a dwindling fraction of the users of a service is not the right answer, nor the fair answer.

  13. Re:Why not? by jandersen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few quick calculations, for comparison:

    In UK, 1 litre of petrol (gasoline) costs about 1.2 GBP. 1 US gallon = 3.7 litres, so that works out as 7.57 USD per gallon. The OP doesn't actually say what you guys pay, but I get the impression that it is less by a wide margin. The US is also, I believe, the largest economy on the planet, and you spend more energy, per capita, than any other nation in the world. Perhaps you should tighten up a bit on the way you waste energy - I assume it must wasted, because it doesn't look like all that extra energy results in higher, actual production.

    I'm sorry I haven't got loads of sympathy, but it does look like a luxury problem to me. Find a way to change the situation - fix the inequalities in your society, so the poorest don't have to struggle in hopeless poverty in order to feed the indulgencies of the rich.