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US Arrests Son of Russian MP In Maldives For Hacking

Posted by timothy on from the by-coincidence dept.

First time accepted submitter ugen (93902) writes "The son of a Russian lawmaker has been arrested by the U.S. on charges of selling credit card information he stole by hacking into the computers of American retailers. Roman Seleznev, 30, was arrested overseas by the U.S. Secret Service on July 5 and was ordered detained today during a hearing in federal court in Guam, the Justice Department said in a statement."

29 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Guam is in the Maldives now? by Wulfstan · · Score: 2

    There's about a third of the globe between the two...

    --
    --- Nick, hard at work :->
    1. Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? by Wulfstan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      --
      --- Nick, hard at work :->
    2. Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? by jythie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think if nothing else this raises questions about where the arrest actually happened. Russian media, esp when high ranking party members are involved, is not exactly known for being accurate in its reporting.

      Setting that aside, this does cut into the larger modern question of how to deal with cyber criminals who are based out of countries hostile to the US. There has always been the question about what to do with people who commit crimes in a country then flee to one without an extradition treaty, but increasingly we are having to deal with cases where the individual is actively committing crimes against the citizens of one country while being physically located in another.

      Though that gets into some interesting and sticky territory when it comes to transnational companies and the horrors they have committed around the world... or at least it SHOULD be sticky.

    3. Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      Right, the US has gone completely off the rails in recent years. "oh, this guy stole some credit card numbers... Let's kidnap him, fly him out of the country and try him in some random court outside the country! Yea! Go USA!"

      Seriously? It'd be one thing if he blew something up... but credit card fraud?

    4. Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? by Rei · · Score: 2

      Interesting article on the details of what he's charged with here, with screenshots of the operation he stands accused of running.

      While the details of the arrest are still hazy, one thing is clear - they've had this guy in their sights since 2011. It's not surprising that they issued a sealed indictment for him, mind you, that's not particularly unusual for a case like this where the subject is unlikely to be extradited and would avoid your jurisdiction if the indictment was public (nor is the US in any way unique in this regard). And since I've seen others commenting about this: yes, the Secret Service is the correct body to have jurisdiction over this, as they (strangely) are in charge of enforcement against financial crimes. Back in the early days of commercially available inkjet printers, the nerdy high school/college program I went to (TAMS) once got a visit from the secret service when one of the students figured out that he could print good enough replica dollar bills on one to fool the scanner on the drink machine in the lounge. The total volume of the forgery had to be tiny, I'd be surprised if it was more than $100, but still, if you feel like getting involved in financial crime, expect the Secret Service to be looking out for you. ;)

      The scandal here would be if this was an extrajudicial "kidnapping" in the Maldives, with the US swooping up in a van, grabbing the guy, and jetting him off to Guam to use as a bargaining chip, as has been alleged by the guy's MP father. I seriously doubt all that, but we'll see where the truth lies.

      --
      Fox: "I think we should call it... your grave!" Cast: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
    5. Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? by GNious · · Score: 2

      Perhaps he was picked up in the Maldives and "escorted" to Guam, and then arrested in Guam? :)

  2. Where was Maldives law enforcement? by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 2

    Surely it would have their place to make the arrest.

    1. Re:Where was Maldives law enforcement? by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Snorkeling.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  3. Hm... by thieh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

    1. Re:Hm... by khr · · Score: 2

      Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives?

      It looks like they took that power on July 5th.

    2. Re:Hm... by jrumney · · Score: 2

      US probably has an agreement with Maldives.

      It's called the Kyoto protocol. US keeps promising to sign (leaving government-less Somalia as the final non-signatory) if Maldives grants them one last favor.

    3. Re:Hm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      He studied at a terrific British school, but he missed that day in geography class because he was out the night before watching the fireworks and celebrating Guy Fieri Day.

    4. Re:Hm... by jratcliffe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

      Not unless the country in question authorizes it. If the Maldives didn't, then it's kidnapping. If they did, then it's deportation, and entirely kosher.

    5. Re:Hm... by Aryden · · Score: 2

      How about the killing of Bin-Laden in Pakistan without Pakistan's permission. There's a very public instance of invading a sovereign nation with military forces for the intent to capture or kill OBL. The US government does what it wishes, when it wishes to do it and lives under the belief that it is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission.

  4. Kidnapping. by Talonius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I had heard that the Russians were calling this kidnapping, I was doubtful -- but now, not so sure. We really do exact our justice anywhere we want to, don't we?

    What happened to extradition treaties and such? When did it become "stuff them in a van and drive!"?

    --
    My reality check bounced.
    1. Re:Kidnapping. by benjfowler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Russians are masters of passive aggression when it comes to law enforcement when it suits them: the place is corrupt from top to bottom, and it manifests itself in a complete lack of desire to cooperate in international law enforcement. They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what -- but is only exercised when it suits them.

      Not arresting Russia's own cybercriminals is just another way for the notoriously erratic and thin-skinned Putin to poke the West in the eye and annoy us.

    2. Re:Kidnapping. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds just like the United States.

    3. Re:Kidnapping. by TWX · · Score: 2

      When I had heard that the Russians were calling this kidnapping, I was doubtful -- but now, not so sure. We really do exact our justice anywhere we want to, don't we?

      What happened to extradition treaties and such? When did it become "stuff them in a van and drive!"?

      i expect that the United States already had notified Maldives and gotten approval for extradition, long before he was arrested. After all, they indicted him in 2011, so they had plenty of time to determine his whereabouts and travel patterns. They might have anticipated that he would go through Maldives, so they arranged a hearing with their government to seek his extradition on his arrival on their soil. When he landed they intercepted him, arrested him, and the US government took custody.

      Had this been, "stuff him in a van and drive," I doubt that it would have even been reported, or that it would have been reported so quickly, or that they'd have said something while he's only as far as Guam as opposed to back to the mainland US.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    4. Re:Kidnapping. by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      Not exactly new, or even news. The (US) Marines' Hymn opens with the lines:

      From the halls of Montezuma To the shores of Tripoli...

      Referring, IIRC, in the case of the shores of Tripoli, to where the Barbary Pirates took refuge while raiding shipping in the Mediterranean.

      The US Marine Corp went in to Tripoli to root out the pirates. That was in 1812.

      The Marine Corps (it has an "s" in it-it isn't a business) isn't exactly known for arresting people. And in 1812 they were nothing more than naval infantry, which is why they went to the Barbary Coast. They were protecting American- and other states'- shipping. You know, kind of like what the US, France, Great Britain, and even Russia are doing right now off the Somali coast. The assertion you are trying to make is a very tenuous one.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    5. Re:Kidnapping. by Rei · · Score: 3

      TFA says he was arrested in Guam (a US territory). The "kidnapped in the Maldives" thing seems to be coming from the Russian media, which isn't exactly the most trustworthy source on the planet (but at least it's a lot better than North Korea! ;) )

      Russia (148th) might have been lower in the index had it not been for the stubbornness and resistance shown by its civil society. But the authorities keep on intensifying the crackdown begun when Vladimir Putin returned to the Kremlin in 2012 and are exporting their model throughout the former Soviet Union. From Ukraine (127th, unchanged) and Azerbaijan (160th, -3) to Central Asia, Russia’s repressive legislation and communications surveillance methods are happily copied. Moscow also uses UN bodies and regional alliances such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in its efforts to undermine international standards on freedom of information.

      Criticism of the regime is common since the major demonstrations of 2011 and 2012 but media selfcensorship is far from disappearing. The federal TV stations continue to be controlled and, in response to the “return of politics in Russia,” the authorities have chose repression. Ever since Vladimir Putin returned to the Kremlin in May 2012, more and more draconian laws have been adopted. Activists, news media and bloggers have all been targeted. Defamation has been criminalized again, websites are being blacklisted and the range of activities that can be construed as “high treason” is now much broader. “Traditional values” are used to justify new restrictions on freedom of information, including the criminalization of “homosexual propaganda” and “insulting the feelings of believers.”

      Not like the US is a bed of roses - its #46 standing puts it below countries like Botswana and Papua New Guinea, only one place above Haiti. But compared to Russia....

      --
      Fox: "I think we should call it... your grave!" Cast: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
  5. Imperial Police by mbone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What in the hell are the US police doing arresting anyone in a foreign country? Is the Maldives part of the empire now?

    And, yes, the Russians are totally correct in calling this kidnapping. Look for some poor American tourist or businessman to be nabbed in a tit-for-tat.

    1. Re:Imperial Police by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well they don't want to go arrest people in Mexico. It's dangerous down there and besides the Maldives have great beaches.

    2. Re:Imperial Police by physicsphairy · · Score: 2

      Respecting territorial sovereignty is for when other countries can do something about it. A small island nation of a few hundred thousand people need not apply.

      Still, it seems a bit excessive to do an extradition raid for someone who is apparently accused of hacking into zoo and deli websites. His relation to the Russian MP is probably what has earned him the special attention, part of Obama's plan to punish Russia. The message is clear, "Invade its allies and America will spoil your vacation."

      What do you suppose the probability is that after some further negotiations the MP's son and Snowden trade places?

      --
      When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
  6. So which is it going to be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This story pits dueling Slashdot hot-button knee-jerk outrage topics head-to-head: 1) Evil US oligarchy (I had to throw that one in as it is the new "hot" word to use), in a show if Imperialism kidnaps Russian citizen from foreign country, or 2) criminal is able to avoid arrest for five years due to his ties to government (oligarchical) power that allows Russia to stonewall their end of a bi-lateral agreement.

    Which will it be? Evil Imperialism or special treatment for those in power? Where will the outrage be? Early signs suggest Imperialism, probably due to the spin the story has been given.

  7. Re:Arrested overseas? by Herschel+Cohen · · Score: 2

    >> [...] U.S. Secret Service arrests E.T. on his home planet for an unpaid long-distance call.

    Pipe dream.

    We lack the budget to get there, otherwise we would. Be realistic, please.

  8. Hate to break it to you ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Russians are masters of passive aggression when it comes to law enforcement when it suits them: the place is corrupt from top to bottom, and it manifests itself in a complete lack of desire to cooperate in international law enforcement. They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what -- but is only exercised when it suits them.

    I hate to break it to you, but the phrase above remains true if you replace "Russians" with any country powerful enough to get away with this kind of behavior.

  9. RBN? by Redmancometh · · Score: 2

    I wonder if this is the same guy who was supposed to have been leading the Russian Business Network. There were/are a lot of rumors that his father was someone well-connected inside of the Russian government. It would explain how they've operated with impunity how long they have.

  10. What is hilarious is that by azav · · Score: 2

    this was also submitted to the firehose as "US Kidnaps Son of Russian MP", where the post alleges that the US extradited him to Guam under false pretenses.

    Wonder which spin is the correct one?

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  11. Re:Secret Service job description by jratcliffe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US Secret Service is chartered with two utterly unrelated duties:
    1) Investigation of financial crimes such as counterfeiting and fraud.
    2) Protection of the US protected class of untouchable leaders, as well as visiting foreign dignitaries.

    I don't see violation of the rights of third party nationals in foreign lands anywhere in their charter. Surely there are normal cooperative channels to bring the case to the attention of the law enforcement agencies of the foreign lands and also the third party governments.

    Violation of the sovereignty of the US by attacking it or its citizens does not seem to be a part of this case.

    1. This falls clearly under #1, investigation of financial crimes.
    2. He was indicted in 2011. If he were, say, a UK citizen (for example), the US would have put in an extradition request, and the UK would have (following a hearing, assuming there was credible evidence) extradited him. Same if the alleged crime had taken place in the UK, and he were a US citizen in the US.
    3. Russia doesn't extradite their citizens, period, and, even if they did, there's no extradition treaty between the US and Russia. Therefore, no, there aren't any "normal cooperative channels" involved.
    4. If the Maldives government (and I have to assume he was arrested there, otherwise he'd be a complete idiot, knowing that he had been indicted in the US, to visit Guam) consented to his arrest and transfer to the US, that's entirely kosher. The Maldives doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US (they don't have one with anyone, as far as I know, which might have been a reason that Mr. Seleznev decided to vacation there), but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to extradite people, just that they're not obliged to.