Slashdot Mirror
Here Comes the Panopticon: Insurance Companies
New submitter jbmartin6 writes: The Panopticon may be coming, but perhaps not how we think. Instead of a massive government surveillance program, we might end up subjected to ubiquitous monitoring to save on our insurance premiums. The "internet of things (you can't get away from)" makes this more and more possible. Here a company saved money on its health insurance premiums by distributing Fitbits and an online service to enable reporting fitness gains back to the insurance company. We've already seen the stories on using black boxes to monitor drivers. There is even an insurance company named Panoptic! Heck, why not a premium hike for owners of this or that "aggressiveness gene"? What if in the future we got a quick "+50 cents" tweet for every scoop of ice cream? I suppose the natural stopping point might be the balance between an individual's willingness to be monitored and the desire to reduce insurance premiums.
Progressive's been offering Snapshot, an OBD-II dongle you plug in and allow to monitor your driving. They get the data periodically and can give you discounts for safe driving.
Bet they can also up your rates for "normal" driving too!
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
One can draw an analogy between this and supermarket club cards, where you *can* buy groceries without one, but, it is 25% more expensive.
In this future, you can buy insurance without pervasive monitoring, but, it'll cost you extra.
Insurance companies shaping coverage/billing based on client data? Shocked, I say....
Can you say red-lining?
without always using cliches like "panopticon". We'll take you more seriously, we'll assume you can think for yourself rather than just parroting something someone else said, and we might even read the article you linked to. Thanks.
When we make soceity beholden to us, be become beholden to society. You can call it an unintended consequence, but no one with a brain can say it was an unforeseen consequence.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
You really think those without FitBits will be charged extra??
No, but those with FitBits will be charged less! Wait...
I tend to agree with your statement, absent the sarcasm.
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me. In theory, I have far more control over my government than my insurers. Certainly I have more oversight, and there are laws governing what the government can do with my information. Private companies don't have the same restrictions, and even if they did they have limited liability, an army of lawyers, and my only recourse will be to get $1.28 in a class action lawsuit. And if the government wants to trump up charges against me, I cannot believe that would be aided much by knowing more about me. But the private sector wants to ring every penny they can from my wallet.
Bottom line, hell yes the
Your ad here. Ask me how!
This reminds me of buffet vs. a la carte expenses, just applied to insurance. If eating ice cream were to cost $0.50 extra each time (or I were to "save" 50 cents when I didn't eat ice cream), I might be more conscious about that cost and decide to not eat any than if that cost were figured in and distributed among all users buffet-style.
This may result in a healthier population, I would imagine. But given percentage profit caps due to the ACA (at least in the US), I suspect that profits would go down as a result. So, the plan backfires.
Combined with the negativity associated with charging a "tax" on eating tasty food, I doubt this really goes anywhere.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
In the long run "subsidizing the people who don't take care of themselves" will save money for everyone. Even you. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that stuff.
Really, the best thing we can do now is to make sure everyone is healthy and educated and happy. You just never know where the next Einstein will come from.
The funny kind?
Nobody wants to pay for claims arising from behavior riskier than their own.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
Heck, why not a premium hike for owners of this or that "aggressiveness gene"? What if in the future we got a quick "+50 cents" tweet for every scoop of ice cream?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Shit better not happen!
Well, kind of.
With more accurate information insurance premiums can be set more accurately and this will result in savings. We can debate what portion of the savings will wind up with the insurance company, the corporate employer, or the individual insured.
Even if none of the profits wind up with the insurance company they may not mind. While the profits would be lower there would be lower risks with those profits. Boring stable profits are preferred to violate uncertain profits all things being equal.
You cannot choose whether the IOT comes to your work, and already now you are obliged to have a smart meter in the EU. And the companies will enable IOT features whether you want it or not, like the gsm modem in intel chipsets. It will be like planned obsolescence: you don't want it, but have no choice.
When did /. become a blog for the obsessively paranoid and a forum for wild speculations? 'News' for nerds indeed...
...ever put in that car insurance fob into your auto's computer port? (e.g. Progressive's Snapshot, where they treat it as a cute little device that aggressively records everything your car is doing when you drive.) People (not corporations, *individuals*) go out of their way to use these stupid things, not fully realizing (or caring) that they're willingly allowing an insurance company to monitor everything they do.
But you know, it's okay because they get a discount and it's not the government doing it (*eyeroll*).
In all seriousness, if you want to whore yourself out for "discounts", I'd normally say that's your problem, not mine - but then I realize that the rest of us will get dinged for NOT opting-in, so damnit, stop that you idiots!
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Pretend nothing. Last year it was a simple, "fill out this questionnaire and enroll in one of these quick online courses and save $30 bucks a month." This year we have to do the same questionnaire, same courses, "oh but also go to your doctor and have a physical and blood work done, and here send this form back with all the results while your at it. Don't like our end run around of HIPPA regs? Enjoy paying $35 extra a month."
Central Ohio Home Theater Installation - The Theater People
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me
You're kidding, right?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
by distributing FitBits to employees.
Did they also provide FitBit winders?
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me.
Tell that to the IRS
In theory, I have far more control over my government than my insurers.
You can change Insurers, but not really your Government.
Certainly I have more oversight, and there are laws governing what the government can do with my information.
ROFLMAO!!!
Private companies don't have the same restrictions, and even if they did they have limited liability, an army of lawyers, and my only recourse will be to get $1.28 in a class action lawsuit.
And you can't sue the Government unless they agree to be sued.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
...is that instead of "saving" you on premiums, it will only be used as an excuse to tack on more to your premiums.
We already see this with credit ratings. Having trouble paying your bills, even though you pay your car insurance on time? Here's a nice 20% price hike to punish you.
This is the way this always works, particularly with an industry that you are legally mandated to do business with.
"The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me."
What country do you live in, I want to move where you live because here in the USA the government thinks all money is theirs unless deemed otherwise.
But the fitbit stuff, I could see occurring - 10% reduction if you wear one 24/day and qualify. Not that different from what we do with cars today. Most importantly, unlike the DNA stuff, a fitbit monitor would theoretically encourage better behavior, which makes political sense, while dna mapping has tons of political issues.
The real problem we are having is not the loss of privacy per se, it's the abuse of private information. Most people are fine letting Onstar know their current location. We are not fine with Onstar telling anyone that information - not the police, not our wife, not our boss.
What we really need are a bunch of punitive laws that punish people/corporations for 'accidental' release of information. It doesn't have to be severe, but monetary compensation seems reasonable. They make X dollars selling the stuff, so we should have the right to get Y if they sell it or give it away without our permission (and Y should be far in excess of X).
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Why not simply outlaw insurance companies attempting to cheat? Because this is basically what insurance companies are trying to do -- make a big play at getting something for nothing off their subscribers.
Or when it comes to moral hazard, is there just one set of rules for us little people, and another for the corporations?
With enough data these companies can compile a "Safety Score", kind of like how a few companies know everything about your financial life and give you a credit score.
Why wouldn't an apartment or condo community want to check your safety score? A lot of them do background checks and credit checks now, I can definitely imagine people wanting to live in communities where everyone has a safety score above some number. And I can imagine communities for the rejects. The more data companies compile on you the more they can begin to stratify their goods and services. If they do it right and it benefits more people than it hurts then it will work.
"‘Smith!’ screamed the shrewish voice from the telescreen. ‘6079 Smith W.! Yes, YOU! Bend lower, please! You can do better than that. You’re not trying. Lower, please! THAT’S better, comrade. Now stand at ease, the whole squad, and watch me.
A sudden hot sweat had broken out all over Winston’s body. His face remained completely inscrutable. Never show dismay! Never show resentment! A single flicker of the eyes could give you away. He stood watching while the instructress raised her arms above her head and — one could not say gracefully, but with remarkable neatness and efficiency — bent over and tucked the first joint of her fingers under her toes.
‘THERE, comrades! THAT’S how I want to see you doing it. Watch me again. I’m thirty-nine and I’ve had four children. Now look.’ She bent over again. ‘You see MY knees aren’t bent. You can all do it if you want to,’ she added as she straightened herself up. ‘Anyone under forty-five is perfectly capable of touching his toes. We don’t all have the privilege of fighting in the front line, but at least we can all keep fit. Remember our boys on the Malabar front! And the sailors in the Floating Fortresses! Just think what THEY have to put up with. Now try again. That’s better, comrade, that’s MUCH better,’ she added encouragingly as Winston, with a violent lunge, succeeded in touching his toes with knees unbent, for the first time in several years.’"
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
1984 - George Orwell
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
In the long run "subsidizing the people who don't take care of themselves" will save money for everyone. Even you. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that stuff.
Really, the best thing we can do now is to make sure everyone is healthy and educated and happy. You just never know where the next Einstein will come from.
Or Hawking. I wonder what his FitBit readings would look like.
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me.
I take it you have never been audited by the IRS. Worst thing I have ever had to endure, and that was as a college student filing a 1040 EZ and only having one job and a checking account. It was similar to one of those somewhat creepy police interrogation scenes in movies meets the stereotypical DMV waiting room.
Time to offend someone
But everyone wants to pay the rates of the healthiest, safest, best maintained because if you have to pay more than that you must be getting ripped off.
Most people can't understand statistics or probabilities that extend past a single coin flip. Hedges, short and long positions, defensive financial tactics are way beyond your typical American who can barely balance a checkbook. Understanding that insurance is a combination of both - not gonna happen. The only dichotomy that people "understand" about insurance is that it is an evil expense due every month that gives them nothing in return, and a magical pixie horse that pays you money if something bad happens to you.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Sophistry.
When "cutting the growth" of a program equates to "throwing grandma over the cliff, Draconian Measures and evil", the result is the same. You are paying attention, aren't you?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
#2 - Get rid of the supposed bureaucrats, doctors and pharmacists that try to second-guess real doctors and pharmacists that actually know the patients and their conditions.
#6 - The government should stop forcing people to buy coverage they don't want.
an army of lawyers
Do you know what the government has an army of? An army.
However, I do agree that the government is more trustworthy (OK, "less untrustworthy," because both are worth very little trust) than private, for-profit, publicly-owned companies. The latter have literally no interest in anything beyond their specific domain. The government at least has to ensure the survival of a society in some form.
To the GP, though. It's bad when EITHER the government or private sector is doing it. Or have you not been actually reading the comments on Slashdot?
What class action lawsuit? Did you not read about the binding arbitration agreement?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
insurance companies are taking a page from social media and hedging their bets that you will concede to them monitoring your every waking movement. In most cases you arent told what exact amount you stand to save on insurance until after the metric is collected, and its usually very little (between 5-15%) You arent even told what metrics that little box is collecting or how theyre used, or how long theyre maintained. Most of the information they keep with these snooping devices becomes proprietary once you sign up. So why are you so ill informed about this?
its largely because insurance companies are using the metrics to forecast profit and loss to their board and shareholders, not because they actually care about saving you money. In some cases signing up for a biometric program might quietly absolve the insurance company from having to treat you for a whole range of different ailments they attribute to a sedentary lifestyle, thus saving them in quarterly losses. The worst part is nobody is asking questions like 'does this fitbit factor into my HIPAA protection?' or 'can this vehicle data be used against me in a court of law?'
full disclosure: im signing up for a workplace fitbit program subsidized by my employer. The data, presumably, is going to be aggregated from the devices and submitted to the health insurance company as "harmless biometrics" but as I cant sign up for my employers healthcare for another 7 months, I have no intention of using the device outside of the data i scrape from it in linux using fitbitd.
Good people go to bed earlier.
We do that in the NHS too.
But the problem of having the NHS pay for treating useless fat chavs who eat too much, is far outweighed by relieving the entire population of the danger of medical bankruptcy at the hands of rapacious private health insurers and doctors.
And you know what? We in England **LOVE** it.
Medical bankruptcy is unheard-of in the UK, and we love it. Rich tossers who don't like having to wait for elective surgery can still get the gold-plated private crap if they really want it.
Often you can't even defend against it in your private environment. Want power? Gotta accept having a smart meter. Of course you can opt out to live like it's 1799, it's all opt-in, you see?
Don't want to be totally controlled while driving? No problem, you may of course walk. Public transport, you say? Sure, you just have to accept pretty much the same deal as you'd have to in your car.
Even opt-in isn't always really opt-in.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You can change Insurers, but not really your Government.
True for now, but there's always the hope that one day the US will become a democracy.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
Free Million Dollar Idea: Sell an OBD-II simulator that shows what nice, pleasant driver you are. Plug their dongle into that.
Better yet, get yourself an NHS, and give everyone a basic health plan funded out of general revenue.
The usual corporate pigs will scream blue murder, but everyone will forget it once they realize the absolutely massive efficiency gains to be made, by having the system waste vast resources handling private insurance overhead instead of healing people.
The NHS over here is a gigantic, expensive command economy (and one of the biggest employers in the world), and it isn't quite up to Mayo Clinic standards, but it is absolutely, vastly more efficient than the colossal fuckup that is the US private health system. And it's abolished medical expenses as a cause of bankruptcy.
Not a few times, I've heard the phrase "thank God for the NHS". Americans will eventually understand the truth, and get one too.
IMHO, The IRS has been pretty fair. I pay more "taxes" for my auto, home, and health insurance than I do to Uncle Sam on an annual basis.
They track you using your credit card. The cards are because people want them these days. Albertsons finally knuckled under and started offering them. Not because they needed them for tracking, like I said they already did that, but because customers whined they weren't getting a "good deal". So they raised their prices, and introduced a card.
Nah, why be so hard? You can safe on premiums, up to 20% lower premiums for you if you bend over and ... oh wait, you could catch something from that. OK, up to 20% savings on premiums if you, well, sit around at home and not do anything that could remotely be considered fun. No, wait, that would be unhealthy. So, 20% off if you stay at home when you're not at work and spend at least 20 hours a week on our monitored home gym (of course you have to buy that first).
Oh, and while we're at it, your premium just went up by 20%. But you can SAVE 20% as I just told you above!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Really, the best thing we can do now is to make sure everyone is healthy and educated and happy.
If the idea is to make people healthy so premiums go down, Obamneycare is a complete failure in that aspect since the smokers, obese, alcoholics and drug users don't have to change. They can continue doing what they're doing, secure in the knowledge that someone perfectly healthy, such as myself, is forced to cough up their money to pay for the bad choices these people make with their lives.
So, what other excuse are you going to use to try and justify having the government reach into my bank account if I don't pay for someone else's medical insurance?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Uh no it won't. It will encourage everyone to not give a shit. We'll be equal alright, equally poor, unhealthy, and enslaved.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
maybe the good thing out of that is the end of employer based health-care
Think you'd be able to "opt out" of this after government takes over health care?
And how do you think access to health care is going to be controlled?
By government bureaucrats: "I'm sorry, you've eaten too much and you're diabetes is your own damn fault. No 'free' health care for you!"
Yep, the same people who want to outlaw Big Gulps will be running health care.
Because this has happened in how many single payer systems around the world? I mean Norway, they surely do it, right? Wait no? Well what about Uruguay, they're the third world, they must do it, right? Wait, no again? Canada? Switzerland?
Yeah, buddy, those of us who've actually lived in other countries know our obsession with privatized healthcare is smoke and mirrors, it's like begging for abuse, let's just finish privatizing police, prison, and armed forces while we're at it.
Do you know what the government has an army of? An army.
Yes, and its an Army lead by politicians who are predominately lawyers.
"His name was James Damore."
"the internet of things" is a pretext for a panopticon
sure "one" could do that, but "one" wouldn't benefit with any new understanding, **because that's a stupid comparison**
i can "draw an analogy" to pissing in a jar, that doesn't mean anything
you're giving everyone a free pass, and assuming the best of intentions on their part....when if you were using your analytical brain, you'd see that the past has taught us to assume the opposite: companies will be as bad as "Big Brother" if we let them
governement and business **both** need accountability
Thank you Dave Raggett
I feel the exact same way about all those reckless, careless, risk-taking, jock-want-to-be’s who risk their lives and wellbeing playing senseless games on the field, riding bikes and skateboards without thought or concern, and adventuring up mountain sides without care.
I find it absolutely appalling that I am forced to cough up my money to pay for their reckless behavior, broken bones, torn ligaments, hamstring injuries, and more!!
Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
And the same people who ruled they couldn't outlaw Big Gulps will also be running health care too, or are the courts somehow not part of the government? Your agument seems to be different people in government have different opinions, but in this case, the right people had the ultimate say - that proves everyone in government thinks alike and will doubtless do the wrong thing. Like Dumbledore said to Pippin in Star Wars, "Illogical".
Who is John Cabal?
Horseshit
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
You've posted twice about the supposed wonders of the NHS, but the reality doesn't seem to corroborate your claims. There are numerous reports about the massive financial crisis the NHS is facing. Evidently the problems are the worst they've been in a decade, resulting in significant layoffs and that 44% of hospitals will end the year in deficit. The fact that the things were bad only a decade ago seems to imply that the system has always had a problem with sustainability.
Sustainability seems to be a significant problem with socialized healthcare systems the world over. That's where the problems arise. Americans are hit with the cost of healthcare up front, Europeans pay for it indirectly via high taxes and other compromises. You'll likely be hit with a huge bill in the US, but at least if a doctor spots something of concern you'll be scheduled for tests the very next day. If they find a problem you can be in surgery the following week. In Europe you end up on waiting lists and hope things don't get worse before you get treatment. Unless you're wealthy, then you can pay for prompt care, which ironically causes the same economic divide people complain about in the US.
There are other more subtle problems I've personally observed in Europe in Asia. Doctors are overburdened and relatively underpaid. So I've found that they tend to gloss over issues and don't really spend enough time evaluating a patient's condition. These and many other problems are the sorts of things you only really start noticing when you've lived in a country for any length of time. I've noticed that immigrants to the US always complain about the cost of healthcare. Until they start noticing those subtle differences, the extra effort American doctors put into patient care, prompt treatment and a general sense that everything is handled more thoroughly.
At the end of the day, healthcare is a massively complex and expensive beast. I've yet to see an implementation that comes close to solving most critical issues.
You pay your docs shit and you saddle them with bureaucracy. That's why many patients come to the states. The wait is half a year or more for these supposedly 'non critical' operations. That sounds just like the 'rapacious' insurance companies you speak of. The only difference is that your 'insurance company' can fuck you over with law as well as money. How nice.
That's how ALL insurance works.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me.
hahahah hahaha ahah ha...ha.....
I would have thought that would be pretty much a no-op. "Here's my W2, I took the standard deduction." What could they look for?
I suppose the natural stopping point might be the balance between an individual's willingness to be monitored and the desire to reduce insurance premiums.
Possibly, although the cynic in me says that the natural stopping point will be when the insurance companies require that you be monitored or they will not provide you with insurance.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Insurance only works because of uncertainty. The very concept of getting people to buy insurance depends on aggregating risk over a sufficiently large population.
When the insurance companies can actually offer people rates that come within a small margin of actual payouts (plus a hefty bit extra for the insurance company's cut) - Why would any sane person still pay for insurance? Put the same money in the bank and cut out the middle-man.
Is it monitoring? Yes. Are the devices "on the internet," that is, IP routable? No.
Enough with this IOT bullshit.
I guess it's not sexy enough to be "in the cloud" anymore.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
That fob was on their for 6 months...the key thing here is it was my choice...and its not on there anymore and im still getting the discount.
Oh you better not shout! Your better not cry! You better not pout! I'm telling you why, Insurance co. is coming to town.
It's making a list, checking it twice. Gonna find out who's naughty and nice! Insurance co. is coming to town.
It knows if you've been sleeping. It knows when you're awake. It knows if you've been bad of good, So be good or you will PAY!
But don't worru, We have SSRIs to help with the natural depression and sense of dread this will create. Better a gram than a damn!
see above comment
Thank you Dave Raggett
The spirit of HIPPA was to keep the fact that you are a pot smoking, HIV infected (but otherwise productive and high-functioning) person out of the hands of anyone THAT YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE IT.
Guess what, I work in healthcare and have 10 more storied like this.... if you think your health insurance and healthcare providers are vangaurds of privacy.... ROTFLMAO... you have no idea.
That's why the wealthy and famous are always admitted under pseudonyms and pay cash, but only to the Director of Account Payable.... LOL we normal people are fucked.
Also, Soulskill is a douchebag.
...says the national socialist.
"His name was James Damore."
Single payer.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Maybe in a world of rational people. I think Wall Street has been running an experiment for the last 30 years to see how irrational they can behave before economics figures out how to deal with the fact that people don't actually act in their own best interests.
I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.
Often you can't even defend against it in your private environment. Want power? Gotta accept having a smart meter. Of course you can opt out to live like it's 1799, it's all opt-in, you see?
Except that most cities have a legal requirement that you have a current, operational utility connection, or they'll condemn your home.
So, more like "require-in"
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Just wrap the meter in tin foil, problem solved. Most of the EU is standardizing in 139MHz and the UK on GSM+2.4GHz (because we suck), both being quite easy to block. With some craft skills you could make a nice Faraday cage out of wire mesh, allowing for manual readings when they call you about it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I feel the exact same way about all those reckless, careless, risk-taking, jock-want-to-be’s who risk their lives and wellbeing playing senseless games on the field, riding bikes and skateboards without thought or concern, and adventuring up mountain sides without care.
I find it absolutely appalling that I am forced to cough up my money to pay for their reckless behavior, broken bones, torn ligaments, hamstring injuries, and more!!
Im having a really hard time trying to figure out if you are serious, or trolling.
Seriously, you have done a bloody good job at straddling that fine line perfectly. I am impressed.
So which is it? I truly cannot tell.
In extremis, if you set the premiums perfectly accurately you don't need insurance.
It's a cliche on slashdot, where every sixth article has 100 comments using it. There have to be more ways to compare society to a prison than just using the name of single prison design, no matter how effective that design happened to be.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
FYI: Currently only in Illinois, Oregon, and Washington.
s/many more/infinitesimally less/
The number of crashes that happen with both parties following the law is practically none. Pretty much every crash is due to multiple factors, but a healthy majority of fatal crashes are caused by the big three: speeding, failing to yield and running red lights. The rest are caused by a variety of causes. Starting with what you might suspect, cell phone usage and drunk driving, and ending with random low probability stuff like heart attacks and vehicle defects.
If we just tamed the big three the US would save 15,000+ lives each year and prevent another 1,000,000 casualties.
I'll harp on it again. People love crime. People want to cheat their insurance companies just as insurance companies love cheating the public. The idea that both parties must be both honest and transparent are simply un American . And insurance companies have a lot of things to look at. Your eating and drinking habits not only effect your life and health insurance but also effect your car insurance as well. People that have heart attacks or strokes make for big car crashes. Your Home owners insurance should be effected if you or others smoke in your home. So the trick is to fool the system. People won't vote for crime and corruption even when they love it. So the answer is to elect the most rotten, corrupt and lazy to office under the guise that they are wonderful people. To that end I am forming the Committee to Elect Rick Scott. I can think of no worse, more corrupt or wrong headed man in the nation to put in a powerful position. Maybe we could get him elected president and that way we can be assured of plenty of crime and idiotic behavior in our future. Hell, we tried electing good people and look at the mess we are in. So help me elect a real monster, Florida governor Rick Scott.
How about raising home insurance rates if you publicly declare that you are a climate change denier, those of who do get it shouldn't have to pony up as much as those who ' don't believe the risk is real'.
Please have respect for people with different abilities, especially children.
That word does not mean what you think it means.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
There are only two types of people who freely buy insurance: cowards and those who think they can fool the insurance company into paying more than the premiums cost.
Both groups are immoral.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The insurance industry has owned Washington for some time now. Naturally they would be able to get away with this kind of invasion of privacy with zero backlash. In 2010 the insurance industry started cashing in on their investment by pushing through the ACA bill, but that is only the start of it.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
> The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me.
Really?
I think it's the same in N. America. My government, who is always claiming no money, spent $2 billion to install them claiming they're only so they can tell when the power goes out quicker. My meter just spent 6 months flashing error 7, they then showed up to reset it and the next week replaced it. Considering they're supposed to use the cell network and there is no cell coverage here, it seems like a big waste but as they're replacing taxes with fees and things like higher electricity prices I'm sure there is a long term plan to squeeze money out of us while bragging about some of the lowest taxes in N. America and any day now businesses will show up to take advantage of our low taxes.
Whoever makes smart meters sure must have made money over the last few years and if they break as often as mine did they have an endless revenue stream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
So, you're one of those people who believes you can jump straight to a "free market solves all problems" in insurance? A field that both has incredible scale effects leading to a natural oligarchy and, by necessity, is highly regulated? Both of which lead to incredible barriers to entry.
Further, there is little reason for any insurance company to deny themselves this information. First, they seek an advertising, not informational advantage: they all use similar/identical algorithms from the same consultants already. Secondly, in addition to whatever you can gain from serving low-risk individuals who object to monitoring in the pool, would be more than offset by the adverse selection pressure that pushes all high risk candidates into that pool.
Lastly, while I questioned the free market claims, that was a precursor to saying that you are free to emigrate. But unlike a company, where your only choice is to patronize them or not (or there is no choice if you want to drive a car/survive an illness/etc. except for among near identical actors), in the case of a democracy, you can actively work to change things. I'd be hard pressed to find a boycott that worked "well", where I will define "well" as achieving a tangential goal in a timely way through the loss of income to the company. I distinguish this from modifying policies to avoid bad press by a boycott being published, to boost shareholder value by increasing intangible assets, etc. However, I can indeed point to many changes made to a democratic country because some group decided they cared about it.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
In the US.
There's a fairly trivial proof that I am correct. See, the government has an army, a police force, the ability to have banks reassign/lock my accounts, and the ability to just print quintiillion dollar bills* and inflate my cash to nothing. They can have everything I own right now if they decide to, and I could not stop them.
But wait, I have stuff!
On the other hand, a publicly held company, given similar power over me, would take everything I have, and then brag about how they were increasing shareholder value. Hell, they may even claim that it was their ethical obligation to leave me with nothing.
And the historical record reflects that.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
There's a big flaw in the post. Insurance companies offer savings if you have a box in your car. Very different from charging you extra for eating too much ice-cream. There's a big difference between incentivising good behavior and punishing bad.
They sit there and hem and haw over it, then start asking all sorts of questions like do you have any capital gains, 1099 income, gambling profits/losses. The auditor then wandered off to "check" some things comes back asks more stupid questions and wanders off again. Then apparently after gathering everything he needed sat down and questioned every line on my 1040 EZ form. I probably spent close to 7 hours at the Minneapolis IRS office 5 of which were sitting in a waiting room and 2 for the actual audit. I agree that you view of what should of happened is what I was thinking was going to happen since it was a 1040EZ with a single W2 and it took me like 5 minutes to fill out originally. I figured I would be in and out in about the time it took to actually do my return initially.
Time to offend someone
Ick. Sounds like you got picked at random and the guy felt he had to go through all the motions he could think of. I think maybe I'll start taking that 'we will help if you get audited' offer from the online tax filing service :)
Ditto to what he said but from here in Canada.
Coupled with the other recent story about humans in the minority by year 20xx. The Insurance Companies will have a vested interest in keeping us alive forever.
In order to bill us perpetually! "And in those days men will seek death and will not find it;"
(Which also means the insurance companies will be run by women, in order to perpetually nag the men.)
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
The supposed crisis that your talking about have lots of causes. Aging populations, and unrealistic expectations.
And also lots of well funded propaganda by for profit private health care providers. They try to fan flames of discontent to produce a ground swell of support against public health care. They should pack up their suitcases and go back to America.
Yes, and you can be assured that the manufacturer of those meters paid big bribes, er contributions, to the proper political party to ensure a lifetime, guaranteed contract to build the things at obscene profits, that will be returned to the proper political party's coffers.
And to think money laundering is illegal in this country.
Murphy was an optimist
The government scares me less because they don't want to maximize the money they get from me.
This is surely a joke.
there are laws governing what the government can do with my information.
Ever heard of the NSA? Please cite examples where they actually followed the laws, or told the truth about what they were doing...
Murphy was an optimist
Oh no, reality and facts .vs. the ivory tower. I predict a massive flame war against such a rational, well thought out, and logical post based on reality. I'll bet people who can't find England on a map will display their superior knowledge of what it's like to live there.
Murphy was an optimist
I've noticed that immigrants to the US always complain about the cost of healthcare. Until they start noticing those subtle differences, the extra effort American doctors put into patient care, prompt treatment and a general sense that everything is handled more thoroughly.
Wow! You have been part of a medical system that I have NEVER seen... and I am an American. The doctors are only semi-qualified most of the time. They just fucking guess at what the problem might be. There is no such thing as prompt treatment (really? You really said prompt treatment?!).
The medical system is an absolute mess in America. I would rather go visit the "fire and forget" doctors in Asia. At least there, everything that is normal for a doctor to see is handle expeditiously. God forbid you see an American doctor for headaches that have been mysteriously happening once a week every week for several months in a row. They will have absolutely no clue what to do, suggest, or even consider... except maybe that you are looking for pills.
Just in case you were wondering, it was a preservative used in cereals. At least the Asian doctors thought to point out that it might be an allergic reaction so I could do my own legwork (stop eating what I was eating one by one until the headaches went away. Then, when they went away, try the thing that might have been causing them. POW. Instant headache. Take the package into the doctor and ask what it is in it: sugar and flour, nothing else. Liars. Preservatives.).
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
"Hurrrr he used a word I don't like so I'll just disregard his statement and the entire thrust of the article."
I can only feel pity for folks like you.
You can save $$$ on low mileage car insurance if you agree to be monitored by Metromile.
Not quite sure how this is flamebait? Some people would actually like to save money even at the expense of a little privacy.
They do things like limit the number of miles per day. So you're charged per mile but the maximum number of miles is capped in a single day. This means if you do a road trip where you do a lot of driving in a single day, your insurance won't suddenly go through the roof. This only works if they collect mileage data per day. But they also collect other info like speed and braking which could determine whether or not you're at fault in an accident (and if you're not at fault, could possibly help you?).
Are you sure about this "massive crisis"? I just did a google search for "nhs bankrupting britain" and from the looks of the first two pages of results, it appears to be a highly charged political issue... and perhaps not a reality issue.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091221104942AAuJZDf
There's a lot of "threatens to bankrupt" "could bankrupt" "will in the future..." type statements. It looks like a bunch of speculation and fear mongering. What is the reputation of the daily mall, telegraph, the guardian, and independent? They make up the bulk of the scary titles.
Also, look at all the dates of the articles talking about "could bankrupt the NHS". All last year or earlier. Was there an election cycle in Britain then?
At least these sources are from 2014. I had to go to page 2-4 of the google results to find them.
March - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9da42b90-b661-11e3-b230-00144feabdc0.html#axzz376aRXuc1 - basically the UK is facing an aging baby boomer population, just like the US. They are considering having a 10 dollar membership fee, and marking some sin taxes that already exist to help buffer the NHS funding. I didn't feel anywhere in that article that they feel in a crisis.
July - http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/07/labour-wants-to-stay-in-its-nhs-comfort-zone-and-ignore-immigration-and-the-economy/ - looks like the NHS is one of several issues right now, but it seems more like a standard party line attack thing, not because the NHS is in crisis, but just because they always take sides over it. At least the article didn't mention any crisis.
June - http://groupthink.jezebel.com/health-care-report-finds-uks-nhs-best-in-the-world-1592477563 - best in the world.
I've yet to see an implementation that comes close to solving most critical issues.
Cost per person ranked against outcomes of most common conditions would suggest that the US is a major failure compared with any other western modern health care system. The only time the US shines is in expensive treatment outcomes for rarer conditions. The rich from around the world fly here to get the top notch cancer care, brain surgery, etc...
Rest assured that this will be outlawed and considered "tampering with metering equipment".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That was basically my impression as it seemed that auditing a college student with a small income filing form 1040EZ wouldn't net much of anything even if I did screw it up. I would dread having an audit now given how complex my taxes have become, even with tax software it takes a good 6 hours.
Time to offend someone
MaWeiTao is spot on.
The NHS is unsustainable. We see that now with selective practices. For example, smokers are sometimes refused treatment until they give up, even if it's to try and fix a bone fracture. Myself: I was refused treatment for other reasons. Another relative: sent home to die in agony with a blood clot after being told repeatedly 'it was all in her mind'.
The NHS is unsustainable because when the 'Welfare State' was founded, it was conceded that it could only be afforded as long as there was full employment and industrial output. What a joke that is today.
The last government bought popularity by using 'PFI' (Private Finance Initiative) to build and maintain hospitals and schools for 25 years, but it has meant that the private companies responsible for the new infrastructure are making a huge profit at the taxpayers' expense, which can only mean more cutbacks and a worse service for some.
At the moment, sick and dying people are being kicked off of welfare benefits along with the scroungers as part of the Tory 'cuts'. They use (again) private medical companies which appear to have 'doctors' not worthy of the name, even by NHS 'standards', telling the government agencies that really sick people who depend on their benefits to survive are fit and well enough to work.
This is the real state of the NHS and a near-bankrupt Britain.
Socialised healthcare - and it's why the US now has it - is so that the government can control the people.