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Asteroid Mining Bill Introduced In Congress To Protect Private Property Rights
MarkWhittington writes: "Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) announced on Thursday that he was introducing a bill along with Rep, Derek Kilmer (D-WA) called the American Space Technology for Exploring Resource Opportunities in Deep Space (ASTEROIDS) Act of 2014 (PDF). The act is designed to protect the private property rights for entities mining asteroids and to otherwise encourage asteroid mining. The bill is in apparent reaction to efforts by companies like Planetary Resources and Deep Space Industries to locate and mine Earth approaching asteroids for their resources.
The crucial part of the short piece of legislation states that the resources mined from an asteroid would be the property of the entity undertaking the operation. This language gets around the provision of the Outer Space Treaty that says states are forbidden to establish national sovereignty over celestial bodies, which would be a prerequisite to the United States allowing a private entity to own an asteroid. It rather grants mineral rights to the asteroid, something the treaty does not mention. There is no enforcement mechanism in the event of a dispute with another country, however."
The crucial part of the short piece of legislation states that the resources mined from an asteroid would be the property of the entity undertaking the operation. This language gets around the provision of the Outer Space Treaty that says states are forbidden to establish national sovereignty over celestial bodies, which would be a prerequisite to the United States allowing a private entity to own an asteroid. It rather grants mineral rights to the asteroid, something the treaty does not mention. There is no enforcement mechanism in the event of a dispute with another country, however."
where they won't have to pay any taxes?
That acronym is so massive we'll need Roland Emmerich to make a movie about it hitting the Senate floor.
How can any nation grant right over something outside its sovereignty?
i was afraid that privateers were running out of things to rape here on earth
In event of dispute, deliver minerals to other claimant. Without controlled deceleration.
Asteroid mining is the only way we're going to build large structures in space anytime "soon". There's plenty of asteroids, this issue can be revisited later.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If anything deserves a spacenuttery tag, this does!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Finally the Congress has congressed.
FIrstly, an advance "Haha, very funny!" to all of you out there with celestial body related sex/porn jokes you feel compelled to share with the rest of us. Now back to topic, when you travel to a celestial body and detach a piece of it does that piece cease to be a celestial body and become a .... uuuuh... celestial fragment or something? The Outer Space treaty must define a minimum size for a 'celestial body' because otherwise even grains of cosmic dust are 'celestial bodies'. At least that is the only way, that my non legal mind can conceive of, that this law gets around the outer space treaty.
Any company rich enough to get there can probably afford to hire people to defend its claim. Within a few years, they'll probably be rich enough to outright buy a company like Blackwater to serve as a small army to defend their claim if need be. That's the real danger here.
You can't grant mineral rights without assuming ownership of whatever you're granting the rights on.
This law merely codifies what has already developed as the consensus among significant space-faring nations.
Since the world already accepts the premise that objects originating in outer space and brought to earth belong to those who retrieved them them (currently only Gov't agencies, but foreseeably private actors as well), and Article IX of the OST establishes a right to non-interference with outer space activities (outside of explicitly banned activities such as militarization, etc.), the lack of sovereignty or property rights over celestial bodies already presents no legal bar to their mineral exploitation.
Of course, the flip side of this is that someone else could completely legally set up a mining operation on the other side of the asteroid, and provided they are not interfering with your own operations, there is really nothing you could do to enforce a "claim" in the sense that we do here on earth.
As I read it, this introduced bill does nothing to change existing rights and duties under the current legal framework, but I suppose it does provide some assurance to prospective miners that, in the U.S. legal system at least, there will be no drastic changes to the current understanding.
IANAL (yet) but have interned at NASA.
So, if you as a country don't have the right to claim sovereignty over these celestial bodies ... then how on Earth (or space) do you have the authority to grant mineral rights? They're not your rights to give are they?
This is using authority you don't have to grant mineral rights to corporations. Can the US grant mineral rights to nations they don't control too? Because that's awfully special.
This just sounds like the typical ignore the intent of the treaty and make sure corporations have more avenues to make money without restriction.
Always nice when lawmakers pass laws over stuff they really have no jurisdiction.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The J. Paul Getty Maxim, oft repeated in the Oil Patch where I live, is "The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not its mineral rights".
It appears this concept applies to other celestial bodies as well.
Neither the US Congress, nor the United Nations, have any jurisdiction over anything outside LEO (Low Earth Orbit)
The enforcement mechanism is threat of violence form the opposing corporate interest or war in the event the resource proves to be a national priority.
"time for...Capitalist...Piiiiiigs...iiiin...spaaaaaaace!"
Just sayin'.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Words fail me. Almost. I realize that Congress needs to do appear to be doing something, while avoiding all possible controversy, but this seems like a press release that should never have gone out. Perhaps if they concerned themselves less with asteroid mining and more with the immigration issue, pollution, healthcare, and any number of more important issues, Americans might have a smidgin more respect for their elected officials. This seems like an issue that could wait...or maybe they could let the interns handle it.
Whatever is out there in space belongs to everyone and no one on earth at the same time, unless it is already 'owned' by extraterrestrial species.
Suppose Coca Cola got the idea of painting their company logo over the whole moon by using a vast array of cheap rocket ships carrying some very light and dense coloring powder (or whatever else is most cost effective). Everybody on earth should have a say in this, shouldn't they? (If you're very much for Coca Cola, replace their sign with a portrait of Kim Jong Un in the example.)
Yes you can. Obama slogan. The bill does exactly that. It grants mineral rights without ownership of the asteroid itself. The only time when the law will be tested is when someone else will try to mine the same asteroid. The bill protects companies that funded the mining from legal challenges questioning their right to sell mined minerals. This is different than owning the asteroid itself.
Does America even have jurisdiction above 100km? WTF????
Such a bill belongs in Russia, China or some other place that hasn't given up on space.
Space combat is different. It is much easier to destroy something in space than protecting it, and you certainly don't want any humans involved.
I for one would like to be the first of these space mercenaries!
Even now I am thinking up cool sounding names to call ourselves... :)
some large rock floating above my head
Hmmm... do a handstand. Report your results.
This has been already a practice. When Apollo 11 come back with moon rocks no reasonable party questioned US rights to own those minerals. I believe Russian Luna robotic lander also returned some rocks from the moon and identically no reasonable party on Earth questioned Russian right to own those rocks. Now with private industries trying to invest into space exploration the practice is simply approaching a point when some legal framework must be developed. First step will be probably in the countries legal systems. Eventually it will evolve into the international law.
You can't protect something you don't have sovereignty over in the first place.
If you bring it up there, it's yours. If it's out there already, it isn't. That seems pretty clear from current international treaty.
If these (idiot) legislators want to make some progress, they could propose an international treaty be negotiated or modified to allow for what they're talking about, but to unilaterally declare that property rights exist on other planetary bodies without having such a treaty foundation is ridiculous. Nobody is going to recognize it unless citizens of all countries have similar rights.
It's also a pretty sad commentary on the priorities of US legislators these days. They're spending time on this poorly-formulated thing instead of other important issues?
Its not over your head its marginally further down the gravity well , Unless you live in Australia.
I think this is a good move on Aerio's part. I think broadcasters (over the air broadcasters) where the content is coming from would be much more willing to accept this solution over the previous. Aerio has absolutely NO business model without the OTA broadcasters. Cable companies can suck it. As far as I'm concerned, they have no legitimate stake in this. Aerio is not using cable companies signals and retransmitting over the internet. It is only local OTA broadcasters that suffered a loss. Now that Aerio has agreed to pay royalties for the content they are delivering they should be much more agreeable. Aerio still won't be able to broadcast ESPN or Disney channel... because those are only available on cable. Not free OTA. So if the cable companies are upset.... boo hoo, cry me a river.
Ooops. Wrong story.
If you change an objects velocity by more than a certain amount (probably a few thousand mph) then you can claim ownership of it. Small objects are easy to claim. large objects require a lot of fuel (and therefore cost) to claim. Small objects extracted from large objects - e.g. mined. are easy to claim. Very large objects are impossible to claim. If you caused delta v of an asteroid to put it in lunar orbit to mine it and thus it cost you money then you own it if the delta v was big enough.
1) First, the silliness with bill names really needs to stop; one imagines a giglling kindergartner sitting "playing" Congressman typing out stupid acronyms while lobbyists sit in the background actually crafting the legislative language.
2) Then again, there are so many vagaries in the language of this bill, it's almost comical that it would be presented as legislation.
First, the bill keeps referring to "asteroids in outer space" - WTF is "outer space" precisely? Anything ex-atmospheric? Above the Karman Line? Anything in orbit? Anything outside lunar orbit?
Second, I believe even astronomers are having Platonic debates over the precise meanings of such terms as 'asteroid', 'planetoid', and 'moon'. Heck, in wiki's intro to "asteroid", the bulk of the opening paragraph sort of dissolves asymptotically trying to grab specifics. This document constantly references asteroids without bothering even to define what they're talking about. It might include Ceres or Vesta, but could it include the Moon? How about Phobos? Pluto?
Of course, most people have comfortable working definitions of the above, insofar as they care. But when the first rover starts drilling into the Moon, or Mars, or heck, taps into an agglomeration of someone else's space junk asserting it's "space debris that's formed an asteroid" these sorts of vagaries cause massive legal issues.
More evidence - as if the US public needed it - that our congressvermin are just idiots.
-Styopa
Possession is 90% of the law, defense is the other 10%. If you can get it and defend it, it's yours. It's the same principle on which ownership of every country on Earth is based.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It will just protect the 'interests' of an American corporation. See the US 'interventions', the US has never invaded anyone; in Panama, Columbia, Honduras, Cuba, Honduras again, Panama again, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic. And that ignores invading Mexico in the 1840's to support Texans' 'property rights', aka slavery, and on others. Oh, and that list is just up to about 1915.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Anyone consider the Outer Space Treaty has severely limited space exploration? You know nothing motivates people to do something better than the fear that someone else is going to get there first and beat you to the claim. Traditional rules for laying claim is permanent occupation, so without the Outer Space Treaty, would we have permanent settlements on the Moon and Mars today?
...but it should be pointed out: Congress' jurisdiction does not extend out to the asteroids, regardless of what they legislate...
Sure there is. Radar-guided missiles. Etc.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Neither the US Congress, nor the United Nations, have any jurisdiction over anything outside LEO (Low Earth Orbit)
You have de-facto jurisdiction wherever you have the power to assert it.
The American Revolution was about 150 years in the making --- population in 1776, around two million, any disruption in foreign trade wounding, but not fatal. Coastal cities vulnerable, but any penetration into the interior likely to end in disaster. (Saratoga)
The out-world colony for the foreseeable future will be and must be self-sustaining in the sense that it is in no immediate danger of running out of food or air. But it will be small and fragile --- in no position to cut its ties with the earth.
"ASTEROIDS"? Clever. Politicians are better than developers at acronyms. When Russia makes their version of this law they can call it YAASTEROIDS. Or we can open source it and call it GNASTEROIDS.
If the US doesn't have sovereignty over the asteroids (by provision of the Outer Space Treaty mentioned), how can they grant *any* rights to the asteroid?
Can I grant someone mineral rights to the land under the Pentagon, even though I have no claim to the land itself?
"There is no enforcement mechanism in the event of a dispute with another country, however.""
A strong navy? Hey, it worked fine for the XYZ Affair .. and the Barbary Pirates too.
"Deals of this size are done all the time, and think what having access to and rights over a billion kilos of platinum would do for your corporate portfolio."
yes, I think this phrase is worth repeating.
mfwright@batnet.com
Somebody missed how WW2 helped America recover from the Great Depression :) I'm not sure about WW1, but I'm sure you could find either corporate, or socio-political pushes (by monied interests) that helped involve us in that war too.
Maybe if the Nazi's and Japanese hadn't pissed us off the current state of the world would've already been attained not long after WW2, when the combined might of the Axis of Evil and the manufacturing capability of the Americans lead to their great military rolling over the rest of the world.
And anybody who thinks it couldn't have happened should really go read our poltical stances prior to our involvement in the war. If the germans hadn't begun strikes on our merchant ships and the Japanese hadn't antagonized US interests in the Pacific, the whole outcome of WW2 could've been dramatically different. Thankfully a couple incompetent leaders on the 'wrong side' and a few competent ones on the 'right' side lead to the outcome we have today. Whether that will turn out to be a net gain or loss remains to be seen.
Google 'East India Company'. Look at ALL the European colonial movements. This is exactly what will happen again.
The first people with the technology (in the 1600s and 1700s it was the Dutch and Portuguese) will establish little enclaves. Gradually, they will find out where the best places are, and converge on them. Then there will be dirty tricks and fighting. Finally the parent countries back on Earth will need to move in and restore order. That will be when colonies happen. Then we will get the independence movements....
Different technologies - same history...
it's not like the united states has anything to say about astroids, space is not theirs...
We're at that place the europeans were when they had a good idea of the scale the Americas but they didn't actually know what was in them... and there were like four countries that could even go to them.
So they drew up maps and just said "well this is all spain's, this is all protugal's, this is holland, etc"...
Never mind that the countries in question might only have literally ten people over there at that moment... which is effectively no one.
What worries me is that they're going to sit down here on earth and say "that asteroid belongs to X" "That asteroid belongs to Y" "that asteroid belongs to M"... and none of those people will actually go there. They'll just sit on earth like property trolls waiting for someone to actually go... and when they do, they'll claim ownership of whatever profits are made.
I'm not reading this thing because its too pie in the sky at this point. But frankly, I'm not terribly comfortable letting the government determine property rights in space until we have multiple companies exploiting asteroids at the same time. Until that happens its the deep frontier and the law of the gun might be preferable.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Not only will the US agree to defend your mineral extraction with a publicly funded military (by recognizing your extraction rights), they will disclaim any right to tax you on your gains (by not trying to claim sovereignty).
Privatize the profits, nationalize the risks!
I guess it comes down to the definition of a "celestial body". Or maybe it's territory vs property. I assume everyone agrees that an asteroid is a celestial body and cannot be considered territory of a country. If you knock of a spec of dust off of an asteroid, is that spec of dust also a 'celestial body' that cannot be claimed by your country, on your behalf, and assigned to you as the 'miner'? What about a pebble? Something larger?
of this "Manifest Destiny" shite already. How about making the world that we are spoiling a better place to live?
...developing backronyms for governmental agencies.
~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
I propose a new law, I'm calling it, "Stop Using Cute Knee-slapper Monikers You Dumb Idiotic Childish Knuckle-heads," or the SUCK-MY-DICK Act, which would prohibit the use of cute names for laws that have clearly been derived to make the authors seem clever.
Hey guys... um... you know how someone had to think of how to make the name for the new "ASTEROIDS" law spell out the word "asteroids"?
Well... YOU PAID FOR THAT. YOUR TAX DOLLARS WERE SQUANDERED FOR SOME SHITHEAD TO SPEND 20 OR 30 MINUTES TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THE WORDS IN THAT NAME SPELL OUT THE WORD THEY WANTED IT TO BE CALLED. YOUR MONEY. THAT GUY'S POCKET. YOUR MONEY. THAT GUY'S SMELLY, FILTHY, FUCKIN' POCKET.
THEY WERE UNITED IN UNHOLY UNION BECAUSE OF THAT STUPID FUCKING JOKE HE THOUGHT UP! SOMEBODY GOT PAID FOR THAT.
Witticisms are no fit replacement for wits. I could have called it the WANFRFW Act, but that's not catchy or cute or clever or sexy. But goddamn it, these clowns are supposed to be legislators, not Doctor Seuss wannabes. If that's what they want to do, can't they do it somewhere else and not be getting paid OUR tax dollars?
Yep. No matter how bad we are and how enslave our people the other side will always find a way to be worse. Don't much fancy China's ideas of human rights, or of health and safety, or 'freedom of speech'. Space dominated by the Russians or the Arab kingdoms could be even worse.
BTW - this kind of large scale asteroid mining or any large scale stuff in space is basically all impossible without nuclear rockets.
- Settling a colony anywhere out in space will require sovereignty, + any kind of confrontation out there will require weapons, so the first thing people will need to do is to get rid of some of those international treaties. Getting those self-serving UN bureaucrats to write laws about space has created a load of stupid unworkable laws unfit for any purpose except blocking all progress. A bit like their environmental work, or tackling world poverty, or justice, morality, actually almost everything they do. (Like the UK government most of the time they would do a better job if all just killed and stuffed and mounted in their seats. :D )
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
> ... the provision of the Outer Space Treaty that says states are forbidden to establish national sovereignty over celestial bodies, which would be a prerequisite to the United States allowing a private entity to OWN an asteroid.
Here, corrected for you: ... the provision of the Outer Space Treaty that says states are forbidden to establish national sovereignty over celestial bodies, which would be a prerequisite to the United States allowing a private entity to MINE an asteroid.
Because the USA does not own celestial bodies, it cannot grant ownership of anything retrieved from those celestial bodies. Anyhow, US republicans are apparently keen about a new space race and WAR versus Russia+China.
WHO KNOWS whom else an asteroid may technically "belong to"? These miners could get us all killed :-)