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DARPA Successfully Demonstrates Self-Guiding Bullets

Lucas123 writes: A DARPA-funded project has successfully developed a .50 caliber sniper round capable of maneuvering during flight in order to remain on target. The self-guiding EXACTO bullet, as it's being called, is optically guided by a laser that must remain on target for the bullet to track. The EXACTO round is capable of accurately tracking a target up to 1.2 miles away, DARPA stated. The technology, which is being developed by Teledyne Scientific and Imaging, is targeted at helping snipers remain at longer distances from targets as well as improving night shots. While DARPA's tracking bullet is the first to use a standard, small-arms caliber round, in 2012 Sandia National Laboratories (SNL) successfully demonstrated a prototype self-guided bullet that was more like like a four-inch dart.

188 comments

  1. No fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cheaters! Who's the admin? We need to ban those losers.

    1. Re:No fair by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      this guy, and he's holding the very gun that DARPA ripped-off...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:No fair by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      All these years, all these years to duplicate the exact same 60s tech that was used in the crazy bullet that killed JFK.

      Or something.

    3. Re:No fair by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      JFK shot himself, so the bullet didn't have to travel very far.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:No fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Red Dwarf fan, I see.

    5. Re:No fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aimbotting bastards! To think this was developed by the Americans and not the Russians (cause they all are hackers, I kid I kid, but seriously they are lol)

  2. Runaway! by F34nor · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Runaway! by jimmifett · · Score: 1

      I loved that movie as a kid!

      I should dig out some old DIY robot kits....

    2. Re:Runaway! by F34nor · · Score: 1

      Please don't fill them with acid, it is a clear violation of the three laws of robotics.

    3. Re:Runaway! by DriveDog · · Score: 1

      Yep. I was just thinking of how convincing a villain was Gene Simmons.

    4. Re: Runaway! by anthony.munoz · · Score: 1

      Yes!! Hilarious role for Gene Simmons too

  3. Creepy by Slizzo · · Score: 2

    A .50cal round shot out of either a M2 machine gun, or M82 or one of it's many variants is scary enough. Now to have a round that can guide itself? Downright creepy.

    1. Re:Creepy by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      An automatic grenade launcher (aka grenade machine gun) was one of the most awesome/fun things to use back in the day. Having one with self-guided shells would be joygastic.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Creepy by harrkev · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually, this should not be scary at all! You just need to figure out the frequency and modulation of the laser used. Then, just make sure that you have such a laser pointed at the guy beside you. You are suddenly safe from snipers! Just make sure that you do not like the guy beside you.

      Seriously, the only way this could be spoof-proof is to modulate the laser with some type of crypto.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    3. Re:Creepy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously, the only way this could be spoof-proof is to modulate the laser with some type of crypto.

      In practice, by the time you realize that a sniper was targeting you, it is too late to start spoofing.

    4. Re:Creepy by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't even need that with grenades, as they don't exactly require a precise hit. Precise airburst (within, say, within a feet along the trajectory) is probably a better and cheaper options for those, the way that XM25 CDTE does it. Among other things, no mechanical parts should be required.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Creepy by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Seriously, the only way this could be spoof-proof is to modulate the laser with some type of crypto.

      In practice, by the time you realize that a sniper was targeting you, it is too late to start spoofing.

      Which is why you should do it all the time.

      Hey, maybe this is why everyone in "futuristic" movies walks around in full-body tinfoil...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    6. Re:Creepy by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that important figures could have several "dummy" lasers present at all times to fool the bullet into going elsewhere. It would act similar to any other frequency jammer.

    7. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rotating disco balls: the countermeasure a true fighter can rely on when it raining bullets, hallelujah!

    8. Re:Creepy by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It would probably be easier to have a couple cameras capable of seeing infrared and ultraviolet. You will see the laser on target and can just remove yourself from the area before the trigger is pulled.

    9. Re:Creepy by harrkev · · Score: 2

      You got it. Lasers are cheap... electronics are cheap... batteries are cheap... spoofing is cheap.

      Really, as an engineer, I can imagine two ways for this thing to work, and it depends on if the projectile spins. Typically, bullets spin so that they act as gyroscopes -- always pointing the same direction (YouTube has videos of guys firing pistols into ice -- ice stops bullet which just sits there and spins like a top).

      If the projectile spins, you can, in theory, guide it with a single fin that can extend or retract. You could not use a standard camera as such, because you are spinning wildly. Assume 2000 FPS bullets -- if you want to shoot a mile, you need at least this much. Also assume a 1-in-12 twist (real twists are in the range of 1-in-7 to 1-in-14, depending on shape and weights of bullet). That means that the bullet is spinning with a approximate rotation of 2 KHz. I doubt that you could have an effective regular camera spinning like that and still work. A better way would be to have a linear sensor (a line camera) that looks forward and to the side. This could operate. When you see a bright stop, see how far it is from the center. More off-center = kick your fin a bit more. This is simple and straightforward. However, since the bullet is spinning and you do not know when the camera will cross the laser, you probably need to keep the laser on full time. This is probably the easiest and cheapest way to accomplish this, but should be easily spoofed. You could maybe put a crypto on the laser signal by changing the intensity of the signal without turning it off, but it would have to be a much lower frequency than 2 KHz because that is your effective sample rate. If you assume 500 Hz signal (four-times oversampling), you would only get about 500 bits of data before you hit your target (assuming a target 2000 feet away). Is that enough to actually apply crypto? I am not sure...

      On the other hand, if the bullet is NOT spinning, you can use a regular camera and regular fins to control it. In that case, it is entirely reasonable to embed some sort of cryptographic modulation on the signal. In any case, the existence of a 2-D sensor makes the bullet more expensive, and increases the amount of processing that needs to be done. It should, however, be more feasible to put crypto, but at greater cost.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    10. Re:Creepy by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Apparently you haven't seen Kim Jon Un's laser disco ball.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    11. Re:Creepy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that important figures could have several "dummy" lasers present at all times to fool the bullet into going elsewhere.

      Then target the "dummy" lasers with an area weapon, such as a cluster bomb.

      It would act similar to any other frequency jammer.

      "Always on" jammers tend to have very short lifetimes on the modern battlefield.

    12. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you need is some guys with a $25 pressure cooker and $10 black powder. Make them blow up lots of Americans and then the PORK will flow. $90000 bullets will just be cheap enough.

      Signed

      John McMic
      CEO General Killware Inc.

    13. Re:Creepy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      It would probably be easier to have a couple cameras capable of seeing infrared and ultraviolet. You will see the laser on target and can just remove yourself from the area before the trigger is pulled.

      An obvious countermeasure would be to have the laser turn on only when the trigger is pulled. With a velocity of about a km per sec, the bullet won't give you much time to "remove yourself from the area".

      But all these silly scenarios about "always on" spoofing, and arrays of cameras, are not realistic. Most of America's likely adversaries are not sophisticated. The likely target of this weapon is going to be some impoverished kid wiring up a dud mortar round as an IED by the side of the road.

    14. Re:Creepy by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You are probably correct.

      However, you would think that the laser would need to be sighted separate from the gun. In order to compensate for gravity, the barrel of the gun is usually lifted so the trajectory is an arch of sorts rather than a straight line. A laser on the other hand, while also suffering from gravity, will not be near as much or even notifiable. This isn't a problem with handguns because the range they are used in is so close that gravity doesn't take hold. Long shots will require a lot of compensation.

      Perhaps there is also a method of pre-aiming the so it is as accurate as the sights on the riffle.

    15. Re:Creepy by andydread · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is that a simple laser detection kit will now warn you that a sniper is training a laser on you.

    16. Re:Creepy by peragrin · · Score: 1

      First this, Ars Linux Powered Scope

      And now a self guiding bullet. Next thing you know they will scale the XM 25 down to fifty caliber rounds that explode at set at the time of fire distances.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    17. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would probably be easier to have a couple cameras capable of seeing infrared and ultraviolet. You will see the laser on target and can just remove yourself from the area before the trigger is pulled.

      An obvious countermeasure would be to have the laser turn on only when the trigger is pulled. With a velocity of about a km per sec, the bullet won't give you much time to "remove yourself from the area".

      But all these silly scenarios about "always on" spoofing, and arrays of cameras, are not realistic. Most of America's likely adversaries are not sophisticated. The likely target of this weapon is going to be some impoverished kid wiring up a dud mortar round as an IED by the side of the road.

      No one is going to waste a $250 smart bullet attached to a $5000 weapon system (a complete guess, the article doesn't say as this is a prototype) on some kid. This looks like high-end Navy Seals type equipment. They usually don't target grunt soldiers, they target leaders. Although an obvious countermeasure I can see is a laser detector that turns on a higher-intensity laser pointed 5 meters to the left of the podium (a very famous sniper shot took out some Vietnamese general while he was addressing his troops). This is the same principle as flares being released from an aircraft to throw a sidewinder missile off the track.

    18. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All modern bullets spin as all modern firearms have rifled barrels. My guess (I have not RTFA, but I did earn a Master Combat Infantryman's Badge if that helps.) is that this round can't be controlled during flight, but can be pre-programmed to fly around or over obstacles before firing. In this way it would act more like the XM25 grenades than a TOW missile which has a camera and can be actively guided through it's wire guidance system.

      None of these systems are all that new or revolutionary. They're just getting small enough that they can be fielded by individual soldiers instead of crew served or vehicle mounted weapons systems. We've had guided systems since the 60's, but only in the past decade or two have grunts gotten to play with these systems in the field instead of pilots or tank commanders.

      I'm more interested in the tracking point weapons systems than in guided bullets. The TP system consists of a scoped rifle that is attached to a small computing unit and weather station that can take all the various variables (wind, elevation, humidity, angle, even the rotation of the earth at longer distances) and place a dot on the scope where a soldier should aim. It then fires the round automatically once the correct bore alignment is made. Never having been to sniper school, this seems like a great advancement as it takes less and less skill to shoot farther and farther. And shooting your enemy before he can shoot you is one of the best things about being an American soldier fighting untrained baddies in the mountains of some poor crappy dustbowl.

      (And before you say anything about fighting fair, stop. That crap is stupid and nobody who actually fights wants anything to do with a fair fight. Fair fights mean you have a 50/50 shot of bleeding out while your friends watch, or even worse, being that friend who has to watch his best friend bleeding out from a sucking chest wound on some remote mountain in the middle of nowhere. That's the worst damn thing on earth. Except the air force. Being in the chair force would suck even worse I'd imagine.)

    19. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, as an engineer, I can imagine two ways for this thing to work, and it depends on if the projectile spins. Typically, bullets spin so that they act as gyroscopes -- always pointing the same direction (YouTube has videos of guys firing pistols into ice -- ice stops bullet which just sits there and spins like a top).

      If the projectile spins, you can, in theory, guide it with a single fin that can extend or retract. You could not use a standard camera as such, because you are spinning wildly. Assume 2000 FPS bullets -- if you want to shoot a mile, you need at least this much. Also assume a 1-in-12 twist (real twists are in the range of 1-in-7 to 1-in-14, depending on shape and weights of bullet). That means that the bullet is spinning with a approximate rotation of 2 KHz.

      I don't think the materials science is there to deal with forming/deforming a projectile on the order of 300,000 rpm (presuming a 1:7 twist & 3,000 fps). Powering that would be nontrivial as well. Assuming the magic material and power were available then I presume we can imagine a highly modulated laser: you're correct that only 500 "frames" would be captured at 4x oversampling, but each frame could be more than one bit.

      In other words, I don't believe the spinning projectile design is feasible.

    20. Re:Creepy by harrkev · · Score: 1

      I don't think the materials science is there to deal with forming/deforming a projectile on the order of 300,000 rpm (presuming a 1:7 twist & 3,000 fps).

      Piezo actuators should have no problems working at up high tens of KHz, and even up in the hundreds. Peizo elements are used in tweeters, where they have to react up to at least 20 KHz, in the right range for this project. Piezos do not have much distance that they can travel, but at that speed, you might not need much distance. All you really need is a little paddle that can stick out an slow the bullet down on one side.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    21. Re:Creepy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one is going to waste a $250 smart bullet attached to a $5000 weapon system on some kid.

      The Iraq war has killed an estimated 300,000, and we have spent about $500 BILLION to do it. That comes out to about $1.7 million per kill, and MANY of them were kids. $250, or even $5000, is an infinitesimal sliver of a rounding error when it comes to the cost of a war.

    22. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I admit not knowing how to correctly calculate the energy required to deflect a bullet. A 20 ft max displacement over a 2,000 ft shot seems arbitrarily reasonable, and is convenient for calculation.

      It seems likely the horizontal force required is simply mass * acceleration required to displace the bullet by the desired distance within the flight time to target. However, really, only the vector of the bullet needs to change, and we can trade speed for vector change.

      Modeling a displaced piezo as a fin, it will experience shear forces akin to a rudder.

      I suppose the real question is how much piezo displacement (number of "fins" or total fin size) would be required and how much energy it would take to oscillate those piezos at 2 KHz for the 2/3 second it would be on terminal trajectory.

    23. Re:Creepy by goarilla · · Score: 2

      C'mon the effect of gravity on photons is negligable even at ranges of 1-2 km. How much is the drop after 7 microseconds of travel time (~250 micrometers if my math is correct, but I doubt it) ?

    24. Re:Creepy by goarilla · · Score: 1

      Those were unforeseen costs (the price of failure), this would be an up-front cost. You bet they do let the accountants loose on this one.
      Same for the insufficient armor your troops have (it was too pricey for the good stuff yet total cost of the war should have covered it a thousand times over).

    25. Re:Creepy by goarilla · · Score: 1

      I think I'm off by an a millionth (picometer vs micrometer).

    26. Re: Creepy by FishTankX · · Score: 1

      Or you have each bullet programmed to track one of thirty different laser frequencies. And then have the gun read the frequency from the bullet and produce the correct frequency laser.

    27. Re:Creepy by budgenator · · Score: 1

      An obvious countermeasure would be to have the laser turn on only when the trigger is pulled. With a velocity of about a km per sec, the bullet won't give you much time to "remove yourself from the area".

      So it'll be easy to recognise the important bad-guy because he'll be the one wearing the MILES gear, a second doesn't give you enough time to vacate the area, but you only have to move farther that the bullet has time to correct.

      The likely target of this weapon is going to be some impoverished kid wiring up a dud mortar round as an IED by the side of the road.

      Yeah right, the chain of command is going to authorize shooting a $50K bullet at a kid; also if somebody has to paint the target, then only a few dollars more gets you a live video feed so command can watch and control any engagements. I see this as being a replacement for the AGM-114, Hellfire missile on Predator and Reaper drones against soft, point targets. One problem we're having now is the bad-guys is using tactics that maximise collateral damage. these bullets will counter those tactics and give our drones he ability to engage many more targets.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    28. Re:Creepy by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I would think it would be a matter of how much contrast this thing needs to "see" the counter obvious counter measure would be to "light up" areas where a someone is likely to be a target with light of the same wavelength but from an omnidirectional source. So the bullet can see the spot the laser is painting against the background.

      Should be fairly easy for situations like the inside of a car an important person travels in, and the outside of residences and office buildings and such. Now if you are the impoverished kid that is harder to do.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    29. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He isn't talking about the effect of gravity on light, he's referring to the fact that the bullet will drop while the laser will not.
      This means that the two will need to be sighted separately - the bullet to fly in a higher arc, and the targeting laser straight. The longer the shot, the larger the difference.

    30. Re:Creepy by budgenator · · Score: 1

      What I've pieced together is it's a 50 cal smooth-bore discarding sabot system, the round is aerodynamically stable with the center of gravity ahead of the aerodynamic center and is fin stabilized. The round has no inertial guidance so I assume that it wouldn't be able to use nutating scanning techniques and any spin would be unnecessary complication.
      Cryptographic modulation, more likely none in the first interation, then a very profitable MWO to add a simple coherency signal adapted by reading a barcode on the round as it's loaded.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    31. Re:Creepy by goarilla · · Score: 1

      So don't you sight the laser with the scope anyway ?

    32. Re:Creepy by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      There is no need to sight the two together; the game is changed when the bullet is self guided. The rifle is no longer a precision aiming device; it is a launcher. From the videos, it appears that the barrel may be canted upward - would which makes sense, as it would help assure that the bullet would be able to see the target when it "goes aero" (pops its fins, or whatever it does to control itself).

    33. Re:Creepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the M388 "Davy Crockett" nuclear recoilless rifle is the scary thing what has been developed. You do not need to be accurate with that thing!

      And Americans even fielded that weapon in Germany in fear that Soviet would run over them with new MBT class, T-54/55 what could survive any medium or heavy tank allies had at that time. And then game T-64 and T-72 what has kept NATO in toes in continually developed models like T-90 from T-80UB.

    34. Re:Creepy by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It's sort of pointless now that rpstrong showed me the error of my thinking.
      http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

      You see, all you need to do is set the riffle to it's highest point in the trajectory arc and the laser to the center of the scope. At any distance now, the riffle is no longer being aimed except in a general direction. So once the laser kicks in, the bullet will guide itself to the target. All you have to do is get close and aim the laser right when the trigger is pulled.

      I was originally thinking the gun had to be aimed before firing so the laser would have to be in the field of view at the same time. According to this site a .50 cal sighted in a 1000 yards or 915 meters will be roughly 45 inches high at 200 yards and 300 inches low at 1500 yards or 1371 meters. Now most scopes and military sights will have adjustments that can be tuned for the differences in distance. But as you can see, with almost a difference of 350 inches (29 feet or 8.8 meters) between 200 yards and 1500 yards, a laser centered at 1000 yards will have to be adjusted the same or be out of the field of view. So if you had to aim the riffle before shooting, you would also have to adjust both the laser and scope. But because the bullet is guided, you just need to make sure the bullet is high enough in the trajectory arc in order to follow the laser to the target. The laser can be centered at this sighting reference and remain on target.

      So basically, I was over thinking it without paying attention to the correct details.

    35. Re:Creepy by goarilla · · Score: 1

      It does take away all the awe I will have for future "elite" snipers. Those that have
      correct sighting and wind adjustments down. Now you just need a patient man with an advanced firearm.

    36. Re:Creepy by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Nope. Vantablack.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  4. The Fifth Element comes to mind by djhaskin987 · · Score: 1

    It's not a machine gun that shots at people behind you, but still.

    1. Re:The Fifth Element comes to mind by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      Actually HMG's where used and can still be used as indirect fire weapons.

    2. Re:The Fifth Element comes to mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is there a big red button?

    3. Re:The Fifth Element comes to mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Made me think of the cartoon bullets in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

    4. Re:The Fifth Element comes to mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Made me think of the cartoon bullets in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

      Dum Dums [12 seconds]

    5. Re:The Fifth Element comes to mind by dywolf · · Score: 1

      I was going to go with the Aliens reference, but 5th Element works too.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  5. Alternate use for this technology by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine a round that *avoids* a target. No more friendly fire!

    1. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      That would require some target-identification, while this is just target-tracking. You point at a target and shoot, and the system makes sure the target is hit. Now it could avoid any target you try to shoot at, but that would be a bit silly: a good way to make sure all your bullets miss is to just not fire them!

    2. Re:Alternate use for this technology by neiras · · Score: 1

      Imagine a round that *avoids* a target. No more friendly fire!

      Neat idea!

      On the other hand, someone will probably develop "dazzlers" that send guided bullets off course.

      Imagine - bank robber keeps lasers pointed at his hostages and dares the cops to take the shot.

    3. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rest assured that a hack is already in the making.

      I don't get the US. I mean, by now you should have noticed that the bigger and more complicated the technology, the more you play into your opponent's hands. First of all, you're using high tech weapons in a low tech war. You can't really fire any round anymore that doesn't cost you more than what your target cost your enemy. Welcome to asymmetric warfare. I don't know why I have to say it, I thought it's obvious: You're essentially in the unfunny situation the British were in when you had your fight for independence. And on top of it you also have to pose as the good guy, you can't even simply level the land and bury what's living under the rubble.

      In basically all the wars the US had gotten into lately, they had the superior technology and the inferior position. Let's look at the stats. The US is fighting an enemy who not only doesn't give half a shit about collateral damage (the US at least have to pretend they care, so they can't use the aforementioned "scorched earth" tactics), an enemy that does not identify itself as such (so pretty much anyone and everyone could be hostile), while at the same time those that are NOT hostile may not be touched (since the US want to be the "good" guy and the backlash is considerable when something surfaces). And unlike the average US soldier, the enemy doesn't even give a shit whether he survives the war.

      That's not a position from which you can win a war. The US loses unless they win, their enemy wins as long as they don't lose. That cannot be won in a scenario where your enemy is in a position where it does not matter to him how many resources he loses as long as he can inflict damage on you.

      Precision bombing and precision shooting is a fine thing if you have a target. That's the main problem the US is facing today. It's trivial for them to eliminate any target anywhere on the planet. The problem is FINDING it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Alternate use for this technology by harrkev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't get the US. I mean, by now you should have noticed that the bigger and more complicated the technology, the more you play into your opponent's hands. First of all, you're using high tech weapons in a low tech war. You can't really fire any round anymore that doesn't cost you more than what your target cost your enemy.

      Off topic, I admit, but this reminds me of the current Isreal/Hamaas conflict. Just launch simple, dumb, and cheap unguided rockets from the Gaza Strip. Isreal has an "Iron Dome" defense system that is supposedly pretty effective at stopping them -- at $1,000,000 per shot. Great way to bankrupt an enemy...

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    5. Re:Alternate use for this technology by F34nor · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are obviously not part of the military industrial complex! Fuck effective go expensive every time. For the price of one nuclear carrier we could have 50 diesel carrier groups with planes. I know professor that showed that for the price of 1 F14 you could equip a squadron of DeHavalin mosquitoes with Phoenix missiles. Stealth because they are made out of wood and 50 guided missiles will ace any fighter pilot in the sky.

    6. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      That's the key in asymmetric warfare. Basically what you need is:

      - An expendable population that is not only willing to fight but also to die for you, your goal, your god, whatever.
      - Cheap weapons (manpower is no issue, people are cheap)
      - And enemy who doesn't have the two above.

      If you can muster that, you have won. There is no way short of total annihilation that you could possibly lose.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Isreal has an "Iron Dome" defense system that is supposedly pretty effective at stopping them -- at $1,000,000 per shot. Great way to bankrupt an enemy...

      No problem. Israel can just borrow more money from the American taxpayers.

    8. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not part of the military industrial complex.

      I intend to win my wars. Not just get rich off them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Alternate use for this technology by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      It's getting cheaper than ever before, not more expensive and the asymmetry is narrowing. Before we had to fire a cruise missile, now we're using drone strikes. A laser guided bullet that can be fired from almost 2 miles away that does even less collateral damage is even cheaper to use both in terms of material cost and politically when there aren't any innocent civilian casualties.

      Finding the target isn't going to be any more difficult. Imagine when something like Google Glass becomes ubiquitous and the government is spying on more than just phone calls. Even without that, it's not too difficult to imagine fleets of drones being used for surveillance, maybe even themselves being capable of painting a target once they find one.

    10. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it's something like $50k-$70k per shot, not $1M, and it can automatically scratch out those projectiles heading into uninhabited areas from its target list. And whenever it destroys a projectile heading for a building or some inhabited place, it not only saves lives but it also quite often saves more money than it costs (the building and infrastructure rebuilds can be costlier than the interceptors), so it really can be a cost-effective solution under the circumstances.

      Coming up (if successful): Iron Beam, the fiber-laser-powered interceptor with even better operating costs.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      50 diesel carrier groups? I find that a bit hard to believe. That much metal and work is expensive regardless of nuclear power. Nuclear power also has the advantage of needing less fuel - you only need to carry stuff for the planes to use.

      What would the range be on those wooden planes? What's your pilot survival rate?

    12. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure the US military would want to rely on strategic materials being sourced from Ecuador...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Flyskippy1 · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall reading that the Iron Dome missiles were in the thousands of dollars per shot range, though with several sent after every target rocket. They only try to shoot down incoming rockets that will actually hit an occupied area, though.

    14. Re:Alternate use for this technology by r1348 · · Score: 1

      ...and gets promptly taken down by a dumb old bullet.

    15. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      It ought to be possible to possible to engage with cheap smart weapons against such enemy. E.g., taking out people with Hellfires from drones seems incredibly costly when a precision barrel weapon could do the same job, especially using a gun computer.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never in the history of the planet has "winning a war" been so obtusely defined. A US soldier is more likely to commit suicide than be killed by an enemy. Our attrition levels are so ridiculously low that, in many cases, the soldiers are safer in Afghanistan than in the cities they were born in! In Iraq and Afghanistan, the ruling parties were deposed in short order. "Winning a war" doesn't mean "And nobody bad will ever live in that country ever again!" -- that's ridiculous. The US isn't at war. It won the wars. What's left is "reconstruction" which, if it wasn't an eternal struggle, we wouldn't have policemen in the United States. Do we have policemen on our streets? Yes. Therefore, there will always need to be "policemen" set up in countries where we don't want specific shit to go down.

    17. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Well, it just MIGHT work to give people a reason not to hate the US and instead turn towards the shit that you don't want to go down. It worked like a charm after WW2, didn't it?

      The cheapest way to retain the order that you want somewhere is to give the people there a reason to want it, too. That works great if you can show them the benefit of your way of life. Of course, that first of all requires that your way of life must have some benefit for them, though...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    18. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some important ways, you're mistaken. In order for you to be correct, you have to include in your definition of winning, the nation-building that USA attempts to do in order to clean up afterwards. If USA decided that everyone in an opposing country was evil, bombing all their infrastructure into the stone age and then just going away afterwards would be a simple matter. When the other country can't (as a country) attack USA, and USA can still continue to attack the other country, that's a win from a warfare standpoint. The thing USA is doing poorly isn't warfare, it's more like policing in other countries using the devices of warfare, and like you say, it's stupid.

    19. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It already starts at you having to get that weapon platform to the point where you can fire it. You have to build the weapon platform, you have to build the targeting computer, and then you have to move that all to where you want to employ it. And all that to (hopefully) hit a person who may or may not be still there when you get there and who may or may not be an actual target for you.

      In turn, your enemy just needs to send a suicide jockey to your well known base and blow up the checkpoint at the entrance. Even if you kill the first 9 guys it doesn't matter as long as the 10th makes it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    20. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Palestinians are in no way winning against the Israelis. The Israelis have been relentlessly, incrementally increasing their territory for close to a century while bulldozing and fencing the Palestinians into ghettos where the Israelis periodically destroy their basic infrastructure (water plants!) while controlling the Palestinian borders.

      The Israelis have caged a bunch of humans, tortured them to the brink of insanity, then played the victim when the result is that their victims behave like animals.

      It's a sick joke. I'm tired of it, but it started long ago and will not end any time soon.

      The big question is... why does the US support them? Because the Israelis have nukes (that they were given/stolen from the US). The next big question is... where are those nukes? I assume they must be in major US cities. Why else support a country that pisses off all of its neighbors and essentially has zero resources and behaves in a hypocritically fascist manner?

      Not that I support the other countries/religions/philosophies in the region... they're all a bunch a backward-ass tribes with grudges going back thousands of years. Filial/religious/national loyalty is a stupid thing to have when it compromises your quality of life... but that's what middle-easterners seem to do... at least enough of them to make a negative difference anyway.

      Why can't we all just get along?

    21. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something like this technology might be useful to supplement Iron Dome - think something like a CIWS with guided bullets to improve the hit rate as the final line around populated areas. Just make sure it's pointing AWAY from the people!

      I'd imagine the sort of rockets being fired at Israel wouldn't stand up well to hits from a 50cal, and the cost per shot would probably be a lot less.

      The question is, since you have to lase the target anyway, would it be any more cost-effective than the Iron Beam system they're developing? Where you don't have to worry so much about stray impacts (although I guess there's the blinding risk).

    22. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Regarding the first, I simply meant that there's no reason to use *mismatched* smart weapons, which are ridiculously expensive. Regarding the second, well, that seems to be a problem with the area security. Can't we use, e.g., milliwave imagers to detect people with suspicious things under their clothes already from a distance?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    23. Re:Alternate use for this technology by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I don't know about US, but some other countries have noticed the pattern and revived some old designs. For example, apparently, turboprop bomber/assault aircraft are nearly perfect for "anti-insurgency" type of combat missions as seen in Iraq and Afghanistan - cheap, rugged, easy to operate, can take off and land from small and poorly maintained airstrips... and still more than capable of delivering death in droves from the sky while remaining effectively untouched.

      US itself has AC-130, which, I suppose, kinda fits that role as well, even if it wasn't originally designed for it.

    24. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You could simply shoot whoever comes closer than the "stop and don't come closer or be shot" signs.

      KISS, not everything needs a technical solution.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    25. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      They're already going to use lasers for that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    26. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "The Israelis have caged a bunch of humans"

      Bullshit. Take a look at a map. You notice there's a country bordering Gaza called Egypt? The Israelis are stopping them from going to and from Egypt? Looks like a pretty leaky cage.

      And he's a clue for you.......if "Palestinian" Muslims don't want to be be treated like animals, maybe they ought to stop acting like animals.

      --
      "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    27. Re:Alternate use for this technology by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I don't get the US. I mean, by now you should have noticed that the bigger and more complicated the technology, the more you play into your opponent's hands.

      I don't think your comment applies in this case. Replace the UAV shooting a missile with a guy sitting a mile away and picking off your guys with a rifle. Cost effective and terrifying.

    28. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israelis control the Egyptian border. They only recently pulled out of Sinai.

    29. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get the technology, it effectively allows you to fire from point blank range while being a long distance away, therefore the target is not protected by moving unpredictably.

    30. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the US taxpayer paid for it anyway, so why would the Israelies give a shit about what it costs? They can just keep milking the USA for more money...

    31. Re:Alternate use for this technology by wiredlogic · · Score: 2

      Great way to bankrupt an enemy...

      Israel's defense budget, and a good chunk of Iron Dome in particular, is funded by the US taxpayer as a kickback scheme to funnel more money to US weaponry manufacturers. Israel only benefits when they have an excuse to fire their guns every once in a while since it keeps Congress from questioning why we give them so many billions in the name of "peace". 1984-style perpetual war is great for business.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    32. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      The US are interested in technology transfer, if I'm not mistaken. It's not a bad thing for the US to outsource R&D into places where you can actually test stuff.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    33. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the problem IS finding it, that's why the NSA is doing what it is doing.

    34. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And he's a clue for you.......if "Palestinian" Muslims don't want to be be treated like animals, maybe they ought to stop acting like animals.

      And here's a clue for you. NO one over there wants peace at all, ever. They are two sides of the same coin. They hate each other, They always have hated each other, and their hatred of each other is their core value. and if there is ever the chance of peace erupting, one or the other will start the carnage again. This has been replayed over and over again. This is exactly what both sides want.

      Read your religious texts. That's a crew that is really into killing each other.

      Your silly rant about the Palestinian Muslims is just one more excuse for the bloodshed from the neverending list of excuses offered form both sides. And you'll just have another excuse that it's the Palestinians fault, and the Palestinians will have another excuse why it's the Jewish people's fault, and on and on and on. Back and forth, world without end amen.

      Big fat hairy deal. They should just do as they will, and the world can watch them do it, and not interfere.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    35. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Col.+Bloodnok · · Score: 1

      That pair of 27l V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engines may have been difficult to detect on 1940s radar equipment, but I doubt that is the case today.

      The great thing about the DeHaviland Mosquito, was that in the early years of the war, nothing else could keep up with it. It was quick, and could carry a useful bomb load.

    36. Re:Alternate use for this technology by ComputersKai · · Score: 2

      Bullshit. Take a look at a map. You notice there's a country bordering Gaza called Egypt? The Israelis are stopping them from going to and from Egypt? Looks like a pretty leaky cage.

      Hmm...oh really? Then why aren't there massive "exoduses" away from the missile strikes, apart from relatively smaller groups of refugees?

      Bullshit. Take a look at a map. You notice there's a country bordering Gaza called Egypt? The Israelis are stopping them from going to and from Egypt? Looks like a pretty leaky cage.

      If the Paslestinians are "animals", then the Israelis must be the poachers with missiles.

    37. Re:Alternate use for this technology by ComputersKai · · Score: 1

      Well, it definitely is a good idea for us to have a missile defense system that actually works better.

    38. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't say "Muslim" or "Jew" in my original post, but I agree with you. Tribalism-- it's stupid, and it's practiced by both sides. What I don't understand is why the Israeli side gets US backing when they have *nothing*. (well neither do the Palestinians, but the Saudis and Iraqis and Iranians etc etc do and they all hate the Israelis).

    39. Re:Alternate use for this technology by ComputersKai · · Score: 1

      I wonder what would happen if a gunfire-fight with guided-bullets erupted in one of those "mirror" houses.

    40. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know professor that showed that for the price of 1 F14 you could equip a squadron of DeHavalin mosquitoes with Phoenix missiles.

      Complete nonsense. The F-14 was designed specifically to carry the AIM-54.

    41. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The U.S. is not interested in sinning wars. We're 0 wins, 5 losses since WWII (and counting). Wars keep the rich white guys rich, nothing else. If we'd wanted to "win" the last five, we could have and would have.

    42. Re:Alternate use for this technology by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You just turn off the tracking and put the .50 through his head.

    43. Re:Alternate use for this technology by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Just launch simple, dumb, and cheap unguided rockets from the Gaza Strip. Isreal has an "Iron Dome" defense system that is supposedly pretty effective at stopping them -- at $1,000,000 per shot. Great way to bankrupt an enemy...

      That assumes you never take out the rocket launchers, their crews, or the ammunition depots with artillery fire or a bomb. I hear the Israelis have been known to do that. They also intercept the weapons at sea.

      Israel Intercepts Iranian Arms Shipment

      Last week, commandos from the Israeli naval forces intercepted and captured a Panamanian-flagged civilian cargo ship, called the KLOS-C, in the Red Sea near Sudan. It was carrying 181 mortar shells, around 400,000 rounds of ammunition, and 40 M-302 surface-to-surface missiles with ranges of up to 100-125 miles.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    44. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I intend to win my wars. Not just get rich off them.

      What have you done with the real Opportunist? That isn't something someone with your nickname would say.

    45. Re:Alternate use for this technology by harrkev · · Score: 1

      And here's a clue for you. NO one over there wants peace at all, ever.

      Sorry, but many Muslims are taught to hate Jews from a very young age:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      There are other examples, but this is the most famous one that I could think of.

      From what I understand (and I know many American Jews who have visited Israel), the Jews pretty much just want to be left alone.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    46. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >For the price of one nuclear carrier we could have 50 diesel carrier groups with planes.

      Which become floating islands in an oil crisis.

      >I know professor that showed that for the price of 1 F14 you could equip a squadron of DeHavalin mosquitoes with Phoenix missiles. Stealth because they are made out of wood and 50 guided missiles will ace any fighter pilot in the sky.

      And I suppose the missiles would be made of wood too?

      Mod parent -1, idiot.

    47. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of those points are even close to why we aren't winning these wars anymore. American soldiers (I am proud to have been one of them.) are the finest fighting men and women the world has ever seen. We always have been, and so long as we keep our second amendment intact, I believe that we always will be. No American soldier has ever lost a war. That's not to say that America hasn't lost a war or two, just that it was not the fault of the men and women who fought those wars.

      Before the idea of modern battlefield reporting, nobody could stop a US Marine or US Soldier from winning a fight. We're better armed, better trained, and motivated like no other soldier to carry on our lineage of being the most hardcore killing machines on this side of the galaxy. It was the US news media showing American housewives and children horrible images of wartime deaths during Vietnam that put pressure on the US government to back off and end that war prematurely (Years later, the Viet Cong leadership admitted that they had drawn up papers to give in multiple times due to our bombing runs in the north only to reconsider once those bombing runs were called off by congress's whining.) and it's that same sort of reporting and governmental short-sightedness that has cost us our two most recent wars.

      Iraq was not a mistake. Our stated reasons for going were, our reliance on horrible intel was, but getting rid of the only man in generations who had used chemical weapons on his own people and then refused UN inspections to ensure he didn't do it again was NOT a mistake. The mistake was that nobody in Washington understood what every soldier already knew. Al Quieda and extremest factions inside Iraq would take the invasion as an opportunity to attack Americans just like the Talliban was doing in Afhganistan. The Iraq war was actually two wars. First was the invasion and the war against Saddam and his military. That was laughably easy and cost very few American lives. The second war was against the insurgency. We "won" that war fairly easily as well. Untrained militants with little funding and even less modern equipment are no match for US soldiers with modern armor, reliable (if legally mandated, underpowered) weapons, and the ability to call in airstrikes. It wasn't until the government decided to cut it's "losses" and leave before military commanders said the war was won that we actually lost that war.

      The same thing is happening in Afghanistan right now. The Taliban and AlQuieda have run across the border into neighboring countries where they know they are untouchable and they are simply waiting on the US pullout before they come back in and take over the country again.

      Telling the world, and our enemies, when we will be moving troops out is a mistake. Telling our enemies that all they have to do is survive until $DATE to win is a sure path to losing.

      America won every war led by soldiers. Washington, Jackson, Prushing, McArthur, and many more won the day during their wars. America cannot win a war led by politicians... Kennedy, Johnson, Bush I, Bush II (Cheney), and Obama lost their wars because they failed to understand one simple fact:

      The US Serviceman is the finest man on this planet and if you allow him to do his job to the best of his ability, he will win at all costs, even by laying his own life down for his brothers at his side. But if you armchair quarterback him and second guess his every move from the safety of some office where people are not shooting at you, there is nothing that soldier can do to fix your mistakes in leadership. And THAT is why we lost the wars we have lost.

      Soldier f**king out!

    48. Re:Alternate use for this technology by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In a city? A .308, even a .223, or the venerable .30-06 will do that job just fine

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    49. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rest assured that a hack is already in the making.

      I don't get the US. I mean, by now you should have noticed that the bigger and more complicated the technology, the more you play into your opponent's hands. First of all, you're using high tech weapons in a low tech war. You can't really fire any round anymore that doesn't cost you more than what your target cost your enemy. Welcome to asymmetric warfare. I don't know why I have to say it, I thought it's obvious: You're essentially in the unfunny situation the British were in when you had your fight for independence. And on top of it you also have to pose as the good guy, you can't even simply level the land and bury what's living under the rubble.

      In basically all the wars the US had gotten into lately, they had the superior technology and the inferior position. Let's look at the stats. The US is fighting an enemy who not only doesn't give half a shit about collateral damage (the US at least have to pretend they care, so they can't use the aforementioned "scorched earth" tactics), an enemy that does not identify itself as such (so pretty much anyone and everyone could be hostile), while at the same time those that are NOT hostile may not be touched (since the US want to be the "good" guy and the backlash is considerable when something surfaces). And unlike the average US soldier, the enemy doesn't even give a shit whether he survives the war.

      That's not a position from which you can win a war. The US loses unless they win, their enemy wins as long as they don't lose. That cannot be won in a scenario where your enemy is in a position where it does not matter to him how many resources he loses as long as he can inflict damage on you.

      Precision bombing and precision shooting is a fine thing if you have a target. That's the main problem the US is facing today. It's trivial for them to eliminate any target anywhere on the planet. The problem is FINDING it.

      Look, if it gets a certain point that the enemy becomes too much a problem then the USA isn't going to play nice anymore. They will resort back to the WWII tactic of completely submit your enemy and if that happens game over. There is nothing these countries in the Middle East will be able to do if the USA goes full out(and I'm not talking about nukes). I'm talking 24/7 pound you into dust action like they did against Germany and Japan. Ask them what that was like. They will resort to the Patton mentality and the LeMay mentality of leave nothing standing. Right now they try to not kill the civilians and target only the enemy but that will change if things start to get out of hand and they will win decisively. See Dresden(and GB helped here too) and Tokyo for your examples in WWII when the USA decided to say fuck it and just go full on warhammer.

    50. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And thats why "hearts and minds" is so important, something few of the soldiers will accept despite it being part of their fucking orders. The only way to win is to get the population to turn against the antagonists who are hiding amongst them, rather than sheltering them and providing them with supplies.

    51. Re:Alternate use for this technology by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the .50 BMG has style.

    52. Re:Alternate use for this technology by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      For the price of one nuclear carrier we could have 50 diesel carrier groups with planes.

      Not a chance in hell. The cruisers, destroyers, and support ships that make up a carrier group along with the carrier cost a fair fraction of the cost of the carrier itself, and the air wing isn't cheap either.
       

      I know professor that showed that for the price of 1 F14 you could equip a squadron of DeHavalin mosquitoes with Phoenix missiles. Stealth because they are made out of wood and 50 guided missiles will ace any fighter pilot in the sky.

      Did he also show you whether or not the de Havilland Mosquito could take the stress of carrying a 1000lb missile and rebound stress of dropping the same? (They only carried 500lb bombs in service.) That it could carry 1,300 lbs of AWG-9 radar in it's nose? (Where the Mosquito basically had only essentially weightless empty space.) That it could provide the several kilowatts of power needed to operate said radar?

      Etc... etc...

      I suspect he didn't, and that like you (with your laughable claim about the carriers) hadn't a clue what he was talking about.

    53. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did he also show that in in any protracted war were your enemy can actually Bomb American , you wont be able to replace your high tech parts?

    54. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Keep drinking the "My tribe is the best" koolaid.

    55. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off topic, I admit, but this reminds me of the current Isreal/Hamaas conflict. Just launch simple, dumb, and cheap unguided rockets from the Gaza Strip. Isreal has an "Iron Dome" defense system that is supposedly pretty effective at stopping them -- at $1,000,000 per shot. Great way to bankrupt an enemy...

      Unlikely to work so long as Israel can rely on US taxpays's money. IIRC they'd be bankrupt without it anyway.

    56. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hey, that's today's naming scheme. You take the meaning of a word, twist it around and create something that confuses the hell out of someone reading it.

      It's called "political correctness".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    57. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Considering the price to develop something (along with the price of training the guy), I prefer a bunch of low cost religious nuts with AKs in their hands.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    58. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Really?

      Fuck, the terrorists won, they're all over the US already!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    59. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The US learned that it's more profitable to wage than to win wars. At least for the elite few. It's really win-win in every aspect. You get the masses occupied with an external foe, you get the rabble off the street by dumping it into the army (and at the same time make them feel important because they're doing something important) and you can make the elite rich at the same time.

      The US also has the economy to fuel the whole shit, unlike Germany in WW2. And also unlike Germany in WW2, they're not dumb enough to actually engage in a war with anyone who could actually fight back.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    60. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Take a look at a map. You notice there's a country bordering Gaza called Egypt? The Israelis are stopping them from going to and from Egypt? Looks like a pretty leaky cage.

      Hmm...oh really? Then why aren't there massive "exoduses" away from the missile strikes, apart from relatively smaller groups of refugees?

      Because they understand that the Israelis are trying to avoid killing civilians?
      Because Hamas forces them to be human shields?
      Because they're stupid, enough so to provide hundreds of suicide attackers every year?

      Take your pick.

    61. Re:Alternate use for this technology by neiras · · Score: 1

      ...and gets promptly taken down by a dumb old bullet.

      Assuming dumb bullets haven't been made illegal by that point. The population will demand it! Anything that can be done to reduce deadly error, right? /s

    62. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If they want to be left alone why are they constantly taking more and more Palestinian land. Every settlement is an offensive act against the Palestinians. I don't support the Palestinian violence either, but everyone must acknowledge that both sides are at fault.

    63. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is why the Israeli side gets US backing when they have *nothing*. (well neither do the Palestinians, but the Saudis and Iraqis and Iranians etc etc do and they all hate the Israelis).

      Two hings I can think of: Both religion based

      The fundamentalists question your patriotism, and sentence you to hell if you don't support Isreal with major money.

      I think that is based on their actually being more old testament oriented than most Christians.

      The other thing is that many of these same fundamentalists believe that by supporting Isreal with Arms and money, they are greasing the skids for Armageddon, the Gog-Mgog battle that some look forward to iheralding the end times.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    64. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Expect that Hellfire missile is useless against areas and people. It is directed anti-tank missile what does basically nothing to surroundings.

      It is just idiot movie/show thing as "Hellfire" sounds so cool while it is nothing against buildings or similar.

      If you want to get people dead, use something like 3P ammunitions or bunker penetration missiles/rockets/bombs what does exactly that for you, penetrate inside building and blows up instead just injecting copper forward to get high pressure to penetrate armor.

      If you want to kill people from large area, then drop a cluster bomb on that area. Blows up high up in the air and drops small explosives what blows large area.
      You can even do cluster rockets.

    65. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And here's a clue for you. NO one over there wants peace at all, ever.

      Sorry, but many Muslims are taught to hate Jews from a very young age:

      Sorry youuself. Yours is just another "Yeah, BUT! response. Next will be someone for the other side going " Yeah, BUT! And on and on and on

      The fact is neither of the sides can get along with their neighbor. Period.

      From what I understand (and I know many American Jews who have visited Israel), the Jews pretty much just want to be left alone.

      Well duh! did you expect any other reaction?

      Fact is, you'll see me as supporting the Palestianians. Muslims will see me as supporting the Jewish people.

      Hey, I support everyone's right to live in peace. Not a one of both sides of this conflict do.

      I support no side in this conflict, and consider both sides as a shame to humanity. Some people can get along with their neighbors - some people can't. We just have a big neighborhood battle going on here, neither side wanting to give an inch. Each has a mile long list of their awful neighbor's wrongs, this list going back to the bronze age.NO one is going to win that ware short of exterminating the other side. Then who they gonna hate?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    66. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Not a bad thought, if you don't mind very expensive ammo...

      Tho my first thought was to wonder how easily this could be misdirected by a competing targeting laser.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    67. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Sciath · · Score: 2

      Astonishingly simple; except your take is exactly what one would expect from a dedicated soldier. Yet the assessment lacks historical finesse. Your sole focus was in the capabilities of the American fighting machine being best trained, equipped etc. That may be correct in large part. History has shown though that an indigenous people cannot be subjugated for long. The Iraqis are at each other's throats specifically BECAUSE Hussein was taken out. It's their country and they'll fuck it up any way they choose. Besides, the nation of Iraq was a creation of post WW II politics on the part of the victors. It was pure hubris and ignorance on the part of the U.S. to create the power vacuum there. The Shiite, Sunni and Kurds have all been engaged in their own power struggle for decades as a direct result of WW II politics. Point being... they are all indigenous peoples who push come to shove did not and do not want us there. They only cooperated insofar as it benefitted their own sect. Result? Chaos ultimately. Why? The Bushes had a bone to pick with Hussein. The justification for the entire invasion was a creation in Bush's head encouraged by his wingnut advisors who should all be sitting in a federal pen right now. We lost Korea, Vietnam, and every other conflict since then BECAUSE we took it upon ourselves to (attempt) instill western values across the planet when the indigenous peoples and their cultures were either incompatible with those values or the people themselves were recalcitrant about foreign "invaders". They have a right to fuck up their own little part of the planet just as we do ours (and in the manner we see fit). Not EVERYONE understands, values or desires our way of life even though generations of Americans have been told they do. When the indigenous people can't identify with you or your culture even the best foreign efforts at change will be for not.

      --
      "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
    68. Re:Alternate use for this technology by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Expect that Hellfire missile is useless against areas and people. It is directed anti-tank missile what does basically nothing to surroundings.

      Of course it is. But many drones simply don't have any other weapon system to use, which is probably the reason why Anwar al-Awlaki was killed by Hellfires. And that's also the reason why I've mentioned it. Using precision anti-tank weapons against individuals simply seemed like a terrible waste to me.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    69. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like a Terex Titan truck has style. The .50 will destroy a diesel engine. It will penetrate cinder block walls. It can penetrate 19 mm of steel armor at 1500 yards. Not to forget the rifle used for launching the .50 is a Browning or Barrett M82. The 29.7 pound Barrett M82 is like the old 29 pound KayPro personal computer. A bit much to carry.

    70. Re:Alternate use for this technology by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      And that one F14 would shoot down each and every one of them.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    71. Re:Alternate use for this technology by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Somewhat belated correction: the Mosquito could and did carry 1000-pound bombs, and there was a variant to take a 4000-pound bomb that could make it to Berlin and back. It could carry the 1300-pound radar (although I'm not sure about the nose) and two Phoenixes quite a distance. (Anybody know how a Phoenix would work against a fighter? The things were primarily designed to attack heavy bombers and long-range missiles.) Not that I'd have any confidence in it actually working.

      Did anybody even try putting a Mosquito on a carrier? Carrier planes need a tailhook, and the tailhook assembly has to be able to stop an aircraft at stall speed over a pretty short distance. That's quite a bit of stress on the airframe, and I don't know that a Mosquito would take it.

      Economically, the Mosquito was originally a way to use non-strategic resources, and it somewhat suffered from that. It was a very good light bomber, night fighter, maritime recon plane, and was in great demand during the war. There just weren't enough of them. The US tried building a similar plane that could be properly mass-produced, the P-61 Black Widow, but that came way late during the war and never got the same reputation.

      The Mosquito tends to attract its share of fans, who notice its successes (such as penetrating defenses optimized against Lancasters and Halifaxes) and think it was some sort of superplane, rather than just one of the great warplanes of WWII.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    72. Re:Alternate use for this technology by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You're missing a point.

      The modern US Army is incredibly effective on a battlefield, and would be sudden death in a traditional war. Consider the 1991 Gulf war, in which a large and reasonably well-equipped army, with a fair number of motivated troops (Republican Guard armored and mechanized formations, typically), could neither save itself from being defeated faster than it could realize nor inflict as many casualties on the US as life in a normal US city would.

      This doesn't translate into unconventional warfare. In Vietnam, the US Army and Marines could basically go wherever they wanted and defeat any resistance they found. This wasn't enough to win in Vietnam, and it isn't in Afghanistan. Washington, Grant, Pershing, and Eisenhower fought traditional wars, in which the goal was to engage and defeat the enemy in open warfare. (Yeah, this didn't really apply in the South during the Revolutionary War.) With the exception of the 1991 Gulf War (and various minor actions), the Presidents you list were presiding over unconventional wars, in which winning all the battles didn't mean winning the war.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    73. Re:Alternate use for this technology by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      Besides, the nation of Iraq was a creation of post WW II politics on the part of the victors. It was pure hubris and ignorance on the part of the U.S. to create the power vacuum there. The Shiite, Sunni and Kurds have all been engaged in their own power struggle for decades as a direct result of WW II politics.

      I think you meant to say WWI. The fucked up political borders of Iraq have been around close to 100 years simmering in the desert sun.

    74. Re:Alternate use for this technology by ComputersKai · · Score: 1

      Because they understand that the Israelis are trying to avoid killing civilians?

      So, it's as if you can still find it in your heart that they aren't really trying to kill anybody when your house gets demolished by an unexpected military visit, a hospital gets bombed, and a community-congregation area is attacked?

      Because Hamas forces them to be human shields? Because they're stupid, enough so to provide hundreds of suicide attackers every year?

      Or perhaps, despite the insurgents around them, it is still their home, for a considerable amount of Palestinian Muslims. For example, here in the U.S. in certain cities, even though the crime rate is high, people still choose to live in them. You may say that they just lack the resources to move out, but what about the millionaires and celebrities that still choose to move back to their home cities, no matter how sub-standard they are?
      I'm not even going to comment on the sheer number of flaws in the second line in the quote.

    75. Re:Alternate use for this technology by F34nor · · Score: 1

      It would never work (and I never claimed it would) Spruce bud worm has been a bitch on the industry. Either way you win for the only informed sounding response. Also of note to the detractors my point wasn't the specific example but the idea. Is many decent devices better than one OMEGASUPERAWSOME device? Perfect is the enemy of the good. Also you all might not that the drone is the de facto air force now.

    76. Re:Alternate use for this technology by F34nor · · Score: 1

      The point is not the de Havilland Mosquito itself as that is that is a prima facie ridiculous example. The real point is single expensive or many inexpensive. The proof that his was right is the drone is in service everyday in every hot spot and our pilots were refusing to fly our top of the line fighter until very recently. Complexity theory is a bitch. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a bad idea. Making your basket cost a measurable amount of GDP is insane. Making your basket nuclear but still needing another 10 support baskets that limit its speed and supply its eggs with yoke defeats the purpose of having it nuclear! What part of this is complicated? You cannot outpace your support ships. Is your only point to pick at the example or do you really disagree with the thesis? Defend limited quantity super expensive vs cheap and plentiful.

    77. Re:Alternate use for this technology by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Is your only point to pick at the example or do you really disagree with the thesis?

      I didn't pick at the example - I completely demolished your theory by demonstrating that your cheap and plentiful could not possibly exist. But you're to thickheaded to realize this.
       

      Making your basket nuclear but still needing another 10 support baskets that limit its speed and supply its eggs with yoke defeats the purpose of having it nuclear!

      Wrong again moron. The purpose of going nuclear wasn't to increase cruise speed, but to increase dash speed (I.E. at flight quarters), and to reduce the volume required for ship's propulsion to make greater volume available for aircraft fuel, munitions, spares, food, etc... (And as a bonus, they've discovered they can also carry about three days worth of fuel for the escort group - greatly improving the overall operational flexibility.)
       
      Or, to put it another way, your cheap and simple is actually much more complicated and expensive than you think because you now need an enlarged logistics train to fuel the carrier. It's much more constrained in operations both because the lower dash speed limits the top weight of aircraft that can be launched and because it must be resupplied (with fuel, ammo, food, spares, etc...) more often.
       

      What part of this is complicated?

      It's very fucking complicated - and you have the understanding roughly equivalent to a five year old who goes "oooh, sun hot daddy!" and mistakenly believes he thus grasps the intricacies of the fusion reactions that produce that heat.

    78. Re:Alternate use for this technology by F34nor · · Score: 1

      You have no idea how a carrier GROUP works do you?

    79. Re:Alternate use for this technology by F34nor · · Score: 1

      Ad hominem synecdoche; fun to say but not very convincing.

      We current are using 2/3 of the capacity for air groups on the super carriers so that argument is less convincing. You still need the support ships period.

      Dash speed is bullshit, out running a torpedo may be possible but only if it was fired a the stern and the carrier group had totally failed in its job. Find an example of when they have used it ever and I will mea culpa.

      With 10 super carriers and 3.5 average currently operational with a 10 year refueling time you are not the least bit convincing. Even if the carrier were 1/2 the cost you could have 7 concurrently operational or even 2 carriers per current group.

      You give no data and no examples so I just don't believe you.

  6. I don't think I like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably natural enough to try and develop one. Not so great to unleash it on the world. And that the announcement already does, simply by making clear it can be done. Anyway, the USA is still charging blindly ahead completely oblivious to the damage it does, so common sense is simply not to be had anywhere its tentacles reach.

    1. Re:I don't think I like this by preaction · · Score: 2

      That's the fun problem with an arms race: If you don't race, you lose. If you do race, you still lose.

    2. Re:I don't think I like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you do race, you still lose.

      Lose what? There are naught but contrived downsides to fielding the most powerful military on the planet.

    3. Re:I don't think I like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, creating a weapon that further lowers the already historically-low amount of collateral damage that an army produces is such a terrifying idea! Now it's going to be even MORE difficult to hit women and children on accident when aiming at badguys! Who is going to stand accountable for all this non-bloodshed? Won't someone think of the hostage-takers and human-shield users for once!? Now they're just ASKING to have someone split their head like a grape!

  7. A bit terrifying by turp182 · · Score: 1

    That's pretty scary to be honest, especially given the range. A sniper squad could very effective with quick extraction available.

    I wonder if the system supports a remote spotter (fire in general direction, bullet waits to find it's tracking laser at the remote point, the bullet would have to be able to handle dramatically different angles, and know where the spotter is I would think), someone closer in could more easily track movement or switch targets on the fly.

    It's cool though, that's for sure. They don't mention it, but I wonder what the specs on the optics are.

    --
    BlameBillCosby.com
    1. Re:A bit terrifying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you just invented an inferior form of indirect fire artillery. Cf. the M712 Copperhead.

  8. Lets test this in Syria by Timmy+D+Programmer · · Score: 1

    Lets test this in Syria and North Korea.

    --


    (If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
  9. satalites by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    And the real end-goal... armed satellites. Put one up with a couple of thousand rounds and you'd only need drones to take out heavy armor. Basically anyone not in a bunker would become an easy target.

    1. Re:satalites by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Basically anyone not in a bunker would become an easy target.

      You say that...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:satalites by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      I prefer this one.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  10. One please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I need this in BF4 immediately. I can't aim for shit.

  11. The company that makes water piks... by blahbooboo · · Score: 1

    So teledyne will be able to use this technology to improve their water pics!

  12. only have two seconds by raymorris · · Score: 1

    >. bullet waits to find it's tracking laser at the remote point, the bullet would have to be able to handle dramatically different angles, and know where the spotter is I would think), someone closer in could more easily track movement or switch targets on the fly.

    That sounds more like a job for a drone loitering overhead. A .50 round will be in the air for less than two seconds.

    1. Re:only have two seconds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try 12 seconds. System target distance is 1.2 miles. Maximum effective range is around 6300 feet. Max range is 7000 yd. At those distances (taking into account muzzle velocity 3000 f/s, drag, air density, etc.) time of flight would be 12 to 18 seconds. The long distance is the point of this system. The Scandia Lab system requires constant painting of the target, but ultimately the DARPA EXACTO system is supposed to be self-guided. Fire and forget. (or fire and get the hell out of Dodge.)

  13. We are winning! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There is no question it is an amazing technology. As an engineer I can only say, wow!.

    But as a taxpayer ...

    And each bullet costs just two times the GDP of the entire village the terrorist is hailing from! And we will make up for it in volume too!

    Some times I wonder if it would be cheaper to feed, cloth, provide healthcare and house all the Afghans than what we spent on military over there. Afghanistan hardly has 30 million people. Per capita income is 500$ a year. Just 15 billion dollars total. We spent 1 trillion dollars in the war over there. Our government is borrowing at historically low rate, 10 year t-bills go at 2.5%, the interest charges on that debt alone is 25 billion dollars a year!

    I don't know if it would have worked. But the idea goes like, take a large well defended perimeter. Free food, clothing, hospitals and homes inside. Let people in after disarming them. Expand the area as more and more people move in. We might be able to take in 90% of the population inside, standing obediently at the breadline and the hospital waiting rooms. I don't know. May be an idiot slashdot keyboard warrior.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its cheaper, but less effective.

      American "soft power" has been used across the world for decade and the sad truth is, in some places, it just doesn't work (in some places, it works fantastically). Even if you feed them, cloth them, house them and provide free healthcare, its not good enough. Some of them, they want jobs. Some of them, they want power. Some of them, they want to get the fuck out because they can't see themselves making a life for themselves there.

    2. Re:We are winning! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      And each bullet costs just two times the GDP of the entire village the terrorist is hailing from!

      Each bullet creates two more "terrorists", or "freedom fighters" as they were known back in the 80s when they were our friends.

      The best thing to do is provide aid from a distance, but otherwise don't get involved. No troops, no arming one side or the other, just food and medicine. The Islamists were losing until we destabilized those countries to the point where they could start winning.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:We are winning! by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Each bullet creates two more "terrorists",

      Not quite. Getting blown in half by a .50 round isn't exactly the best recruiting platform. Especially if they can't even spin it as a brave sacrifice facing the evil infidels/Zionists/whatevers. A bullet hitting from a mile away with no warning whatsoever is a very demoralizing thing. Terrorists actually would hate technology such as this because it is more accurate and reduces the chance of collateral damage. Collateral damage is what they want, because all their potential recruits/supporters see are innocent women and children blown up and dead-not how or why they died, only that they died.

      The best thing to do is provide aid from a distance, but otherwise don't get involved. No troops, no arming one side or the other, just food and medicine.

      You have to do both: provide both the carrot and the stick. Show people that fighting will only earn them a useless, painful, and messy death while peaceful coexistence means prosperity, safety, and education. You are correct in that food and medicine are important (more important than money because they are harder for government, criminals, or elites to divert) but you need boots on the ground to provide stability and protection for those communities that have embraced peace. These boots on the ground also help by building/repairing roads, schools, and houses. When communities see that working with the goverment and denouncing extremism makes them prosper they are more likely to embrace it as well. Because let's face it: most of the people fighting in the world do so because they have greivances such as lack of educational, economical, or political opportunities. Given the choice, most people would choose those over fighting. You simply have to show them that choice actually exists.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've spent about 1.2 trillion on both OIF and OEF so there is no way we've spent 1 trillion on just Afghanistan.

    5. Re:We are winning! by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      So you believe that what Afghans want is your version of a welfare state, that rather than being left alone they want to be corralled into your personal version of 'free paradise'? Why not just LEAVE THE PEOPLE ALONE and not try to play either occupants or saviours?

    6. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What a load of condescending shit. If you Americans simply had taken out the bad apples and left, this would have been a minimal affair. Instead the Gleichgeschaltete Propaganda of the American Imperium told people that "now we have to build schools, and hospitals and and and".

      In reality, it was about the business of the war industry. The Afghans know who to police themselves and they simply don't want your hospitals. Because these come nicely packaged with an Edgar J. Hoover Secret Police. People who will spit into your face and then simulate either your drowning or your electrocution. They call this "civilization".

      Fuck yeah. Afghans love freedom and kicked you out.

    7. Re:We are winning! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you Americans simply had taken out the bad apples and left, this would have been a minimal affair. Instead the Gleichgeschaltete Propaganda of the American Imperium told people that "now we have to build schools, and hospitals and and and".

      If you don't build schools, the "bad apples" will be back in less than a generation. In a society that's so fucked up, people will inevitably turn to radical ideologies that blame all their troubles on external enemies.

    8. Re:We are winning! by DrJimbo · · Score: 2

      In a society that's so fucked up, people will inevitably turn to radical ideologies that blame all their troubles on external enemies.

      So true.

      --
      We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
      -- Anais Nin
    9. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not radical ideologies-- they're innate ideologies.

      "My family is the best". "My town is the best". "My tribe is the best".

      It's bullshit. The best is the best. Fuck your family and your town and your tribe.

      I met an Iranian woman last year who extolled the US as being so welcoming. She said in Iran, if you go to the next town, you have to fake an accent or risk repercussions. That doesn't happen so much here. It's the "new world". Yes, I realize it's only new because most of the old people were unfortunately killed off; but it's the right way to deal with people. People are people. There is the law. everyone is (mostly) equal.

      Tribes and towns and religions... antiquated. Bury it.

      Yes, we still need to deal with the rich vs poor problem, but at least the "who you are" is largely (by no means completely) dealt with in the US.

    10. Re:We are winning! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Tribes and towns and religions... antiquated. Bury it.

      This never happens until people are rich enough and educated enough. When they live in complete poverty is when the primal instincts reign supreme.

      So you still need to build schools to fix this.

    11. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the idea goes like, take a large well defended perimeter.

      This is where your idea breaks down.

    12. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The money spent on the war didn't go into Afghanistan. It went into the pockets of executives, managers, engineers, fabricators and miners who collected the raw materials and then designed and built all the stuff that went to Afghanistan. Undoubtedly far less so, it went into the pockets of the personnel who went to Afghanistan to use that stuff. The cost of the raw materials that will be consumed or left in Afghanistan (food, fuel, destroyed or discarded gear, etc) is likely a small fraction of the total bill. I'm sure I'm naively glossing over other expenditures such as bribes.

      As far as I'm concerned, the US should stop trying to bring structure to countries. The Marshall Plan is probably what lies behind the thinking in these invade-and-rebuild plans. Unfortunately, the Marshall Plan rebuilt the nations that the allies destroyed. They were already industrialized nations. Trying to go into all these third world destinations to bring democracy and capitalism is just a bad idea. Those nations don't have democracy and capitalism because they're not ready for it.

      Use some Gene Rodenberry logic and stop interfering with the development of alien nations. That includes going in to pillage them as sources of wealth.

      The most observant here have already pointed out that such a bullet is ludicrous. As far as I can see, its best use is for snipers killing high value targets. Either by poor snipers and/or in difficult conditions. Imagine being able to hit a target in high and variable winds from these distances. Or indirect shots where the sniper lobs the round over a forest or city, relying on the round's ability to spot the laser designation once it gets close.

    13. Re:We are winning! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      How many Americans signed up after 9/11 to fight for their country and people? How many people sign up every time a drone blows up a wedding in Afghanistan?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:We are winning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And each bullet costs just two times the GDP of the entire village the terrorist is hailing from! And we will make up for it in volume too!

      Dude, if this is true than two things are happening here: 1. bad guys are dying and 2. we are literally shooting money into their local economy
      huzzah!

  14. Further Cowardice Encouragement by scarboni888 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or as Roger Waters put it: The Bravery of Being Out of Range.

    1. Re:Further Cowardice Encouragement by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Funny, the US Army would like nothing more than a straight-up fight in Afghanistan. And yet the enemy hides among civilians and blows up schools and churches. Where's the shaming for the enemy? Oh, that's right, you don't do that. Only Americans can be wrong.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:Further Cowardice Encouragement by scarboni888 · · Score: 1

      Schools and churches.

      Weddings, funerals, Abu-Grhaib, Guantanamo, and extra-judicial killings of American citizens who are NOT an immediate threat from any sane realm of perspective.

      Seems like neither side has a line they won't cross.

      And I never said anything about Americans: YOU did.

      This isn't about WHO is right.

      This is about WHAT'S right.

      And pussies who pull triggers when they're not being attacked ain't right.

      Irregardless of what piece of shit rag they fly.

  15. Shooter reveals his location and a defense by 0x537461746943 · · Score: 1

    Put a bunch of laser light sensors into the armys jackets, helmets and pants that would detect a laser light sweeping the person targetted and then immediately respond by shooting the same color laser down toward the ground from the helmet to make the bullet have to guess what the real target is (a bunch of dots preferably). While doing that the direction and location of the shooter could be determined by the sensors so retaliation could be swift. Or in cartoon style just have the sensors automatically make a laser of the same frequence that was detected shine a bunch of dots on the ground and direct the bullet back to the source laser transmission to take out the shooter :).

    1. Re:Shooter reveals his location and a defense by PPH · · Score: 1

      A reflector like one of those disco balls. When illuminated by a laser, it breaks up the beam and illuminates a number of spots on surrounding objects. Passive defense. No sensors/electronics required.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Shooter reveals his location and a defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I come from, we have laser to kill the retina of the fucker who points a laser at us.

  16. smoothbore .50 cal longarm? by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    Hmmmm, if it has guidance in the bullet, does that mean you need to fire it out of a smoothbore barrel?

    Also, where is the computer assisted laser pointer?

  17. This one is pretty interesting and you can own it by trout007 · · Score: 1

    This system isn't guided but you can preselect your target and enable the rifle.
    When you aim where the computer predicts impact it will automatically fire.

    http://tracking-point.com/prec...

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  18. Re:What about helicopters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, the world would be a better place if Democrat's NKVD* drones were controlling a disarmed, helpless population.

    * New Kansas Vulture Dominators

  19. We are winning! by kosmosik · · Score: 1

    I am not US taxpayer so I don't give a shit how much such bullet costs. All I know that sometimes the SEALS or other special ops. unit serves to protect civilians. Hard to belive but that is its function. Put aside "the bad terrorists" and just focus on some scenarios in which such weapon would be extremely useful despite its cost... like I don't know... maybe it is some stupid Hollywood style example but - Maersk Alabama incident. AFAIK snipers did excellent job then and if such weapon could help in such situations I like it.

  20. Drone Strikes w/out Collateral Damage by Thruen · · Score: 1

    This was my first thought as well. I feel like UAVs in particular from this technology, they could designate several targets from the sky and fire a few rounds, taking out the targets with no collateral damage. It could help save soldiers' lives as well, imagine them being able to designate targets from behind cover and shoot without revealing more than their hands. The potential really is limitless, hopefully this technology can be applied to less specialized uses than long-range sniping. Imagine computer-assisted targeting for police so they can target an assailant's weapon instead of killing them in a situation that might normally end with a death.

    But, it'll probably end up only being used to kill more effectively.

  21. Re:What about helicopters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... last Saturday was the 5th of July. Probably just people finishing off their fireworks stash.

  22. It Doesn't Matter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't matter that it works. It matters that the "enemy" believes the kill shot can come from any direction unrelated to the shooter.

  23. These are not self-guiding bullets. by zephvark · · Score: 1

    I could get tired of these click-bait sensationalized titles. It's clear even in the summary that the bullet is human-guided. Ok, it can redirect itself in flight, that's cool, but that's not remotely what we were told.

  24. Is it reusable? by marciot · · Score: 1

    I'm sure this technology isn't cheap. They should make it so once it penetrates a target it comes out the other side and flies right back to the sniper so he can reuse it on the next target -- otherwise it's a waste of some pretty expensive technology!

  25. Easy to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you're the knight in shining armor with a well sharpened sword and your opponent is some peasant with a pitchfork and clothing that can't fend off the cold never mind a blade.

    People forget why asymmetric warfare exists: Because a toe to toe war only works if both sides agree to the rules and both sides are similiarly armed and skilled.

  26. I'm sorry by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1

    I am extremely sorry, but if we "Humans" can't learn to live without this type of nonsense and live peacefully together as one people on one Planet; then maybe it's time to pull the plug on this Civilization. We have brainwashed ourselves in such an extreme fashion that we allow our primitive side to completely engulf our ability to reason.

  27. Self-guided != Laser-guided by fygment · · Score: 1

    Geeze, how hard is that to get right?!

    That said, a self-guided bullet would be a small, fast, deadly autonomous robot ... which would be cool except that it would only be as useful as its range. You would need a very unique use-case to justify it's use over say, a dumb area weapon.

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  28. Will work in lots of other situations too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am no expert but it seems this will have much broader ramifications.
    - Yes should help U.S. snipers, reduce collateral injury, reduce volume of rounds scattered across the countryside
    - Will help snipers of other nationalities too if they get these systems
    - Reverse engineering effort only needs one unexploded bullet.
    - Would also work for bullets shot into the air randomly, only those with vectors near target will matter
    - Would also work for other kinds of mass shot from high-flying drones, planes, orbital (kinetic bombardment, see brilliant pebbles / crowbars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K... )
    - Asymmetric. An enemy would only need to have one man in your city illuminating a target and shoot from across the border
    - Illumination can be done by a robot.

  29. the most intelligent weapon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The most intelligent weapon is no weapon at all.

  30. Hmm, decimal in the wrong spot, or 10 MPH bullet? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I have to wonder if while trying to include everything in your calculations you misplaced an decimal or something, because 18 seconds is about NINE times as long as a quick estimate comes up with:

    > System target distance is 1.2 miles. [6200 feet]
    > Maximum effective range is around 6300 feet. ...
    > muzzle velocity 3000 f/s,

    6200 feet / 3000 feet per second = two seconds, at muzzle velocity

    To get 18 seconds, the average velocity must therefore be almost 90% less than muzzle velocity. Average around 300 fps? That's just 200 mph AVERAGE. To start at 3000 fps and average 300 fps, the terminal velocity would be around 15 fps, or 10 MPH. I'm pretty sure a .50 round impacts the target at a velocity higher than a brisk walk.

  31. Pizzo crystals by mrops · · Score: 1

    Looking at the pictures, I don't think it uses fins at all. I am guessing the bullet has pizzo crystals or some other material that changes dimension when electricity is applied. Put 3 such crystals so the bullet can itself bend and you essentially need a multicopter stabilizer modified to keep the bullet locked onto its target, much like how multicopters use gyros/accelerators to stay level, only the bullet is using feed from camera instead of gravity to stay level to the target.