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Scotland Could Become Home To Britain's First Spaceport
An anonymous reader writes Scotland could take a giant leap for mankind by becoming the home of Britain's first spaceport. UK Government ministers will announce on Tuesday eight potential sites for a base for sending rockets and tourists into orbit. RAF bases at Kinloss and Leuchars are believed to be among contenders for the spaceport, which would open in 2018 and be Britain's answer to Cape Canaveral. Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander said: "I am delighted that the government is pushing forward with its ambitious plans to open a spaceport in the UK by 2018. Spaceports will be key to us opening up the final frontier of commercial space travel. Scotland has a proud association with space exploration. We celebrated Neil Armstrong's Scottish ancestry when he became the first man on the Moon and only last week an amazing Scottish company was responsible for building the UK Space Agency's first satellite. The UK space industry is one of our great success stories and I am sure there will be a role for Scotland to play in the future."
Don't they try putting launching sites further south.
1. They are warmer and you don't need to de-ice your craft.
2. Uses less fuel as the earth is spinning faster
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We'll give you SPACESHIPS if you stay! (promise)
Most of the commercial launches want equatorial orbits, and for that you want to launch as near to the equator as possible. As far as polar orbits for research satellites are concerned there is already the Kiruna site, which is fully equipped and at a better location for monitoring polar orbits. Polar orbits for secret missions? Countries involved in this will want to launch from their own turf. And space tourism? Does not exist yet.
Cynically I expect that this won't happen by 2018, and nobody expects it to. I think it is something that the government thinks will help get a "no" vote to Scottish independence.
How about getting the England football team beyond the first round for the next world cup? This I see as a much better plan for 2018.
We prefer realistic goals.
Secret missions possibly. The UK government might want a domestic launch site, rather than have to entrust France with all their secret missions.
Or it might be, as many speculate, pure politics: This isn't coming from down London, this is being pushed by Scottish politicians. A big, expensive, high-tech project like that could do much to showcase Scotland as an economic success, stressing both to their own citizens and the rest of the world that they don't need the rest of the UK. There's a strong emphesis on the article on spaceplanes, a form of commercial aeronautics still in the development stage - having one of the first useable facilities would be a great prestige.
You could ask for a Commonwealth like site near the equator. /Delta from locations like Kourou in French Guiana.
Skynet (satellite) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
or a Commonwealth site with open land to pick up the parts after a test/error.
e.g. Woomera Test Range in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...
As for spy equipment the UK has been happy to use Ariane/Titan
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
While the article talks about spaceplanes a lot more, it also states that the facility will be capable of satellite launches. If it ever actually gets built, which seems dubious with Scotland's current political situation.
How about getting the England football team beyond the first round for the next world cup? This I see as a much better plan for 2018.
We prefer realistic goals.
David Cameron is currently undertaking a feasibility study on the possibility of holding a piss-up in a brewery.
If it is political theatre, 'spaceplanes' are doubly convenient: not only are they the new-and-cutting-edge-hotness, they also have ground requirements much closer to 'airport with atypically long runway' rather than the sort of expensive and specialized apparatus that very large vertically launched systems often do (the KSC's Crawler-Transporter vehicles are undeniably endearing; but not something I'd want to cost-justify...)
If the PR renders are anything to go by, you can pretty much take an existing airfield, knock down any ugly buildings that the media might see, and replace them with cool, ultramodern equivalents, and you've got a spaceport.
Scotland Has Total Freedom ??
Scotland started its space exploration work in the 19th century.The first rocket (see link) encountered some technical difficulties, but we expect to get those sorted out soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
If they would only be good little subjects and vote to remain part of Britain so England can still pretend to be an imperial power?
No, they are free to, you know, pay for it themselves if they vote no rather than yes. No one will attempt to stop and independent Scotland building a spaceport with it's newly minted Caledonian Dollars or whatever currency they end up on.
In the mean time, do you expect Parliament to simply act as if scotland is already not part of the UK? I suspect you'd be whiny about that too if it happened.
Or do you expect the UK as a whole to basically put large infrastructure on hold because a small fraction of the population eant to seceed?
So far, the best reason for a yes vote is because the "West Lothian Question" is blatantly unfair and undemocratic, but since it goes in Scotland's favour, I've not heard a peep out of that crowd about it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
In that case the normal move is to place it in Australia. Lots of space, stable government and strong social, economic and political ties. As for secrecy already a part of 5 Eyes, so not a problem there, likely when it comes to 5 Eyes they likely could shift a large percentage of that cost to that alliance, so Australia, Canada, New Zealand UK and US would all chip in to fund it. Reason why Scotland, straight up carrot and stick for the independence vote. How will the Scots receive it, likely pretty badly as a straight up carrot and stick scam.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Relax, everyone. This is a non-story; it isn't going to happen, and no-one seriously expects it to.
We're having a referendum in September on whether to separate from the UK and become an independent nation. The UK government has woken up - very late - to the realisation that it's quite likely to lose, and consequently will also lose its only nuclear submarine base, 90% of its oil revenue, and probably its permanent seat on the UN security council. Consequently they're panicking and offering us all sorts of unlikely bribes. The spaceport won't happen because
So relax. The fact that there's no money and no commercial use for it, and that we're too far from the equator, doesn't matter; no-one seriously intends to build it. It's a media stunt, pure and simple. It isn't going to happen.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
The potential for a whole new genre of Scotsman jokes is giving comedians everywhere goose bumps.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
Why not create an UK team ? You would have more chances of success.
Set phasers to malkie!
Why not create an UK team ? You would have more chances of success.
double zero is still zero!
While I was VP for Public Affairs at E'Prime Aerospace, we evaluated various sites for establishing a space port to launch our MX-derived rockets. It turned out that the presence of a military air strip at Ascension Island allowed a military jet transport large enough to deliver entire launch vehicles. Of course, the MX system was solid fueled so we didn't have to transport cryogenics long distances, but it would be feasible to set up a LOX facility on the island. There is a particular coastal cliff that is ideal for a launch pad.
Seastead this.
Bleh. If that's all you know about it I'd keep quiet and stick to your areas of competence.
Care to point out any times where Alex Salmond (or anyone else from that party) have publicly declared that their behaviour in executing such undemocratic power is reprehensible and it willbe for the greater good when that power is given up?
Or are you claiming that that's the only thing I know about the entire issue of independence? If the latter, then don't be a fool. Just because I have highlighted the best issue in favour of "yes" doesn't mean I know nothing about the rest of them.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
In the mean time, do you expect Parliament to simply act as if scotland is already not part of the UK?
Well, they could wait two months to find out if it will remain part of the UK before making grandiose announcements. You know, so it doesn't look like a bribe and has some credibility.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
hahahahaha.
What a funny ploy.
What if Scotland actually votes for independence?
Well, they could wait two months to find out if it will remain part of the UK before making grandiose announcements. You know, so it doesn't look like a bribe and has some credibility.
Where do you draw the line? One month? Two? Four? Eight? Sixteen?
Precisely how long should the remaining 91% of the population delay the running of the country to satisfy something like 4.5%?
And are you sure it's a bribe? It's more of a maybe than a promise. Should the UK Pariliament pretend that Scotland never receives the benefit of large projects (e.g. the two aircraft carriers, the proposed endpoint of HS2, a bunch of milirary bases and so on) in order to artificially benifit the YES camp? Would that be fair or equally biased?
I'm going to say I am in favour of unity. I've looked at both sides (not aht I have a choice in the matter) and the Salmond's camp seems to be relying of wishlists, optimism and bombast with a side order of whining.
Still if you guys vote yes and joing the EU you'll have to put up with hoardes of students from the remaining UK heading over there for free education in a nearby, English speaking country. That would be a richly deserved justice since it was the Scottish MPs who without regard to basic etihcs foisted fees on England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Bleh. If that's all you know about it I'd keep quiet and stick to your areas of competence.
Care to point out any times where Alex Salmond (or anyone else from that party) have publicly declared that their behaviour in executing such undemocratic power is reprehensible and it willbe for the greater good when that power is given up?
Or are you claiming that that's the only thing I know about the entire issue of independence? If the latter, then don't be a fool. Just because I have highlighted the best issue in favour of "yes" doesn't mean I know nothing about the rest of them.
I CAN!.. the Scottish National Party DO NOT VOTE ON ANY MATTERS NOT PERTAINING TO SCOTLAND IN WESTMINSTER! .... So.. care to actually state something that isn't patently and provably false?
This is a long standing policy and their response to the West Lothian as posed by Tam Dalyell.
I CAN!.. the Scottish National Party DO NOT VOTE ON ANY MATTERS NOT PERTAINING TO SCOTLAND IN WESTMINSTER!
Oh you are correct. Apparently I was mistaken about this one. It was Labour not the SNP guilty of that particular farce. Consider my previous post retracted.
I still think the best reason for a YES vote is to answer the West Lothian Question, however. While the SNP may have a backbone in this regard, Labour certainly do not (the other parties have a small enough representation for it not to matter as much).
SJW n. One who posts facts.
So far, the best reason for a yes vote is because the "West Lothian Question" is blatantly unfair and undemocratic, but since it goes in Scotland's favour, I've not heard a peep out of that crowd about it.
Well, I have now. The SNP list this as a reson for independence. I still think it's the best reason, though I think there are better alternatives.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
A proper kilt...will keep the ice off the space craft.
No "true Scotsman" rocket would launch without one!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
With the risk of this being "Scotlands" space port ..
Lots of mentioning of scotland in the text.
I'm not well aware of the positiong issue you mention, though I do understand that part =P
Was is the advantage of the opposite such as the Esrange (Kiruna) base here in Sweden?
http://www.sscspace.com/esrang...
The amount of space available?
They mention " investigation of the aurora borealis" here so maybe that's it? http://digilander.libero.it/lo...
I understand he's currently stuck on picking Evian or Dasani for the beverage.
Precisely how long should the remaining 91% of the population delay the running of the country to satisfy something like 4.5%?
Well, since the delay would have only been two months, I'd say at least two months. Considering it's a long term project and a short delay loses us almost nothing, and would actually have saved us time and money spent looking at Scottish sites which may not be available in the near future I'd say that's a reasonable thing to do.
Should the UK Pariliament pretend that Scotland never receives the benefit of large projects (e.g. the two aircraft carriers, the proposed endpoint of HS2, a bunch of milirary bases and so on) in order to artificially benifit the YES camp? Would that be fair or equally biased?
Interesting you should mention those things. The SNP has said they would still work with the rest of the UK on HS2. The UK government has threatened to take away all ship building, which is an odd threat after they closed the Portsmouth yards in favour of Scottish ones (another bribe). Maybe they will reverse that decision in the event of a yes vote. They also threatened to grab the land where Trident is based so they don't have to move it.
Basically the UK government have acted like complete dicks at every opportunity, fear-mongering and offering blatant bribes as often as possible.
Still if you guys vote yes and joing the EU you'll have to put up with hoardes of students from the remaining UK heading over there for free education in a nearby, English speaking country.
I'm not Scottish. Also, foreign students in Scotland have to pay tuition fees and get a loan from their home government. Even students from the rest of the UK do. It's only Scottish students that get a free education.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
...liquid oxygen and used fry oil.
Well, since the delay would have only been two months, I'd say at least two months. Considering it's a long term project and a short delay loses us almost nothing, and would actually have saved us time and money spent looking at Scottish sites which may not be available in the near future I'd say that's a reasonable thing to do.
Perhaps, that seems somewhatarbitrary though. The disruption will be so huge, people seem to be continuing business as usual on the assumption that the vote will be NO.
Interesting you should mention those things. The SNP has said they would still work with the rest of the UK on HS2. The UK government has threatened to take away all ship building, which is an odd threat after they closed the Portsmouth yards in favour of Scottish ones (another bribe).
A bribe for what? Where should the shipbuilding have gone? The UK parliament likes to keep the military shipbuilding within the UK. Personally I cynically feel that it was an attempty to buy Labour votes in Scotland, not to keep Scotland in the UK.
But if Scotland splits, then it makes sense to take the shipbuilding away. As for HS2, whether or not the UK government decides it wants to work with Scotland is as yet undecided.
Maybe they will reverse that decision in the event of a yes vote. They also threatened to grab the land where Trident is based so they don't have to move it.
Who knows. The whole thing is a dumbass idea anyway.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Is that what the lyrics of "Jerusalem" are about ?
Nullius in verba
Does Virgin Galactic even have plans for a vehicle capable of LEO insertion? All that SpaceShipOne/Two nonsense barely even qualifies as reaching space, and achieves about a 50th the energy necessary for actual orbit.
They have separate teams because Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England all have their own FA. In order to have a single team from the UK then there would have to be a single FA for all of the UK. I doubt there is the will to create the one FA. Though it would be amazing to see Gareth Bale in the next World Cup.
Students from Scotland get free tuition. Students from other EU countries get free tuition. Students from other parts of the UK and from outside the EU have to pay for tuition.
Dasani is not available here because it doesn't comply with EU drinking water standards, so it would be Evian.
It would be typically Scottish to want to orbit the opposite direction as everybody else.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
... they also have ground requirements much closer to 'airport with atypically long runway' ...
If that's what they need then the Irish government should look at creating a spaceport near Shannon, which has a gigantic runway,suitable both for the frequent US military stopovers to and from the Middle East, and (I was told) for the Shuttle, should an emergency ever have arisen requiring a landing in Europe if Edwards or elsewhere was unavailable. But that may just be local pride :-)