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Preparing For Satellite Defense
Taco Cowboy sends a report into China's development of anti-satellite technology, and efforts by the U.S. and Japan to build defenses for this new potential battleground. Last year, China launched what they said was a science space mission, but they did so at night and with a truck-based launch system, which are not generally used for science projects. Experts believe this was actually a missile test for targets in geostationary orbit.
U.S. and Japanese analysts say China has the most aggressive satellite attack program in the world. It has staged at least six ASAT missile tests over the past nine years, including the destruction of a defunct Chinese weather satellite in 2007. ... Besides testing missiles that can intercept and destroy satellites, the Chinese have developed jamming techniques to disrupt satellite communications. In addition, ... the Chinese have studied ground-based lasers that could take down a satellite's solar panels, and satellites equipped with grappling arms that could co-orbit and then disable expensive U.S. hardware. To defend themselves against China, the U.S. and Japan are in the early stages of integrating their space programs as part of negotiations to update their defense policy guidelines. ... Both countries have sunk billions of dollars into a sophisticated missile defense system that relies in part on data from U.S. spy satellites. That's why strategists working for China's People's Liberation Army have published numerous articles in defense journals about the strategic value of chipping away at U.S. domination in space.
New since, umm, the 1960's? 1980's, anyway. The US has tested several different ASATs over the years, and has long had countermeasures. I assume other countries have countermeasures as well.
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a mine shaft gap.
Without military satellites, how can we protect ourselves from the Nazis from Moon?
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Kessler syndrome. Thanks, China!
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This puts a new spin on the phrase "sitting duck".
It's kind of hard to spy on someone surreptitiously with a blimp...
We'll need to break through the space junk to get to the moon or Mars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
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You need more vespene gas.
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Did the Men in Black fail their mission? Which timeline is this again?
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Given that the US is almost assuredly got armed satellites in orbit, and the US Airforce has a unmanned space shuttle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
I think it's a bit silly to call this anything other than "Common sense" on China's part. At the very least during an armed conflict the US could use these satellites to spy on China... at worst they could nuke them from orbit. If they didn't have an anti-satalite program they'd be remiss in their duties I'd think.
The smart nations have leaned to track all easy to spot US efforts.
The really smart nations have noticed the more interesting changes with dark objects moving above their nations.
e.g. the funding fun that was Misty (satellite) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
the other option is movement e.g. Boeing X-37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
Or you just follow the staff cell phones and watch their sites on networked CCTV?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The US has military satellites for a reason.
Given that the US has a reputation for invading countries they don't like it only makes sense to defend against them and there are several potential strategies for doing so.
I feel much better about China going the defensive route (get ready to blow up the satellites) rather than the MAD route (start stockpiling nukes).
Space is already militarized.
Most military assets are not in geostationary orbit. You get a better view from closer up, and you move around to cover more area.
Geostationary orbit is mostly for communications.
there should be some treaties in place that would only allow space warfare if they properly handle the resulting space junk, otherwise space will become a no man land. perhaps this would result in non explosive/kinetic attacks, capture and burn in the atmosphere attacks, and repositioning attacks.
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You have to take out the Zerg early. I think we are screwed.
The entire western world is thankful for the teachings of Sun Tzu. One cannot blame China for following a good defensive strategy.
By the way, the article makes it sound like it was an offence by China, but the initial offence is the one of nations putting spy satellites into space in the first place. It is then just twisted and ironic, if not funny, to see how the US and Japan seemingly want to defend themselves against China's defence plans, when it took some more spying to find out about the launch.
Be glad they are not stupidly trying to set up nuclear missiles on Cuba in order to get a "head start" in a nuclear world war like the Russians did.
satellites equipped with grappling arms that could co-orbit and then disable expensive U.S. hardware
They watched Outlaw Star decided that they had uncovered a Top Secret military program and then decided to copy them verbatim. Can these guys do ANYTHING original?
Acts of war happen all the time - even armed conflict. Just because two nuclear powers go to war doesn't mean nukes will start flying - that probably triggers MAD and everybody loses. We're in new territory here - MAD mostly brought a cease-fire to the World War (parts I, II, and Cold), but that doesn't mean the conflicts are ended, it just means the rules fundamentally changed and, coupled with the implosion of the Soviet Union, we haven't yet had enough reason to work out the new rules of open conflict. But if there's anything history has taught us is that war never goes away for long. Hell, how many nuclear powers have been attacked by non-nuclear powers in the last century? You think the fact that I have nukes is going to make me dramatically *less* likely to attack a nuclear power than if I did not?
The goal in nuclear-age warfare would seem to be to push your opponent as hard as you can without making MAD look like an attractive option. That is to say the potential winner has strong incentive to stick to reasonable demands - of course even total surrender might still be on the table, provided you could sufficiently appease the individuals capable of launching a nuclear strike. What do you think - is full citizenship under the new regime for your people and $100 billion each, paid discretely in gold to untraceable accounts, enough to convince most administrations that surrender of the nation they're currently leading is preferable to mutual annihilation?
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Countries tend to get annoyed if you send blimps over their territory. You can get away with sats though.
I wonder, how much high tech military gear (including drones) the US can operate if their GPS system goes down?
Sure those things are not in low orbit but you start at lower orbit and work for outward from that. Plus the US has been wasting money on space based weapons systems since the 1980s and those were low orbit. Spy satellites are not the big deal.
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Why? There's no oil in space.
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
> including the destruction of a defunct Chinese weather satellite in 2007 Which was highly irresponsible and obnoxious on their part because to sprayed deadly space debris all over the place....
...sprayed deadly space debris all over the place....
Which killed George Clooney and almost got Sandra Bullock too.
is that the anti-sat systems are really only useful in a FIRST ATTACK.
China is NOT thinking of MAD. They are planning and designing a first strike system.
This WILL lead to a war between the wests and China, along with China's Allies (north Korea, Iran, and whom ever else China is sharing nuke secrets with).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The route that they are going, is NOT defensive. It is OFFENSIVE. Look, lets say that the west decides to launch against China. By the time that China realizes this, the ICBMs are on their way and have already switched off from sats and are working with intertia systems.
Where anti-sat systems come into play, from a military pov, is knocking out the enemies eyes and communications PRIOR to your launching first strike.
China is busy developing a first strike set-up, that is useless for defense.
In addition, it is now known by the general public that China has active nuclear work going on. They can claim only 300 warheads, but, why hide a nuke facility underground and by a lake then? There was no reason for it, UNLESS you are up to things that get around treaties.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If somebody attacks USA, such as say China, then it is already too late to make use of anti-sats. anti-sats are a first strike system.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots.
Haven't we been here before ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
Money spent on space used to be dual-use (civilian and military). Now it's single-use (military), and the civilian stuff is private.
It will always be easier to blow one up than to put it there. You do not need orbital velocity to take it out, you just need to get into its path at the correct time. This takes a lot less fuel to do, and should therefore be cheaper.
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So, how long do you think it will be before Kessler syndrome finishes the job all these anti-satellite weapons and tests start? As one professor back in college (the class was 'War in the Nuclear Age') pointed out, you could take out all of geosync orbit with a large bag of sand if you got it going in the opposite direction from Earth's spin. LEO and MEO are both crowded enough that we could get a spontaneous Kessler syndrome even if we don't keep blowing the satellites up there into shrapnel. I suppose we can start replacing the critical satellites in inch-thick titanium, but when every launch requires a heavy lift launch vehicle we're going to lose a lot of satellite functionality.
But having assets in place might assist in their defense. If you start attacking us space assets, it is a fair bet that the us will consider that an act of war. I will bet you money there are some military sats in orbit that have offensive capabilities. Start shooting at sats, and you might get a 10 pound tungsten bar de-orbited on your ground based laser or ASAT launcher. Being is space is a POWERFUL position on the military game board.
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I don't think anyone sane would refuse that deal, but what concerns me more is the possibility of someone insane getting within arm's reach of the launch button. History is littered with examples, but one thing that immediately comes to mind is something Hitler said during the last few days before German defeat - something like "We may be defeated, but we will take the world along with us" as he ordered that German citizens fight down to the last man, including children and civilians. There didn't seem to be much concern for either his or anyone else's population, and he had already resigned himself to suicide, so all the gold in the world would have meant nothing.
Currently the closest we have to that craziness (out of nuclear-armed nations) is North Korea, but that can change quickly. Maybe Kim Jong Un decides to pick up a speed habit like Hitler did, and it puts him over the edge? Maybe political instability somewhere results in incompetent and/or crazy people getting a hold of some nukes (similarly to the Malaysian jet that was just shot down)?
Sure, that's the sort of scenario that keeps you up at night - but kings and generals rarely pass up a shot at seizing an advantage just because it's not impossible their opponent is insane. And if there's a good chance they're insane that doesn't necessarily change anything except strategic details. Imagine some lunatic gets control of a superpower's nuclear arsenal - are you just going to stand by meekly and pray he doesn't randomly decide to push the button because it's redness offends him?
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I have 1 Firestorm and 2 normal interceptors defending each of my sats. All armed with EMP cannons and Plasma guns. Let them Aliens come!!!
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