Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Linus Torvalds: "GCC 4.9.0 Seems To Be Terminally Broken"

Posted by timothy on from the you'll-never-believe-what-he-actually-said dept.

hypnosec (2231454) writes to point out a pointed critique from Linus Torvalds of GCC 4.9.0. after a random panic was discovered in a load balance function in Linux 3.16-rc6. in an email to the Linux kernel mailing list outlining two separate but possibly related bugs, Linus describes the compiler as "terminally broken," and worse ("pure and utter sh*t," only with no asterisk). A slice: "Lookie here, your compiler does some absolutely insane things with the spilling, including spilling a *constant*. For chrissake, that compiler shouldn't have been allowed to graduate from kindergarten. We're talking "sloth that was dropped on the head as a baby" level retardation levels here .... Anyway, this is not a kernel bug. This is your compiler creating completely broken code. We may need to add a warning to make sure nobody compiles with gcc-4.9.0, and the Debian people should probably downgrate their shiny new compiler."

47 of 739 comments (clear)

  1. Or upgrade to llvm ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Debian people should probably downgrate their shiny new compiler.

    Or upgrade to llvm. Being above to compile with either gcc or llvm would be a nice option.

    1. Re:Or upgrade to llvm ... by maccodemonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Debian people should probably downgrate their shiny new compiler.

      Or upgrade to llvm. Being above to compile with either gcc or llvm would be a nice option.

      It's amazed me how attitudes from LLVM in the last few years has gone from:
      "OMG WTF why is Apple doing their own compiler why can't they contribute to GCC they want to make everything proprietary"
      To:
      "Hey, LLVM is a pretty great tool."

      I'm happy to see LLVM making such great strides.

  2. Re:Surprise, surprise... by amiga3D · · Score: 1, Insightful

    He doesn't complain, he blows the fuck up.

  3. Why the asterisk? by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to say shit, say shit. We're all grown-ups here.

    --
    Circumcision is child abuse.
    1. Re:Why the asterisk? by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yea, my first thought when I read that was 'How retarded is timothy to think that implying a word without using the actual word is any different'. Its stupid. Its like saying 'the n word'. We all know EXACTLY what you mean, you're just too chicken shit to actually say it.

      Oh, and he had to tell us that Linus didn't use the asterisks!

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  4. I know you're trying to be funny, but... by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...the people who deserve the apology are the people who were subject to an abusive tirade.

    You can point out someone made a mistake. There's no obligation to be "nice" when doing so. There is an obligation to not be abusive, which is what Linus repeatedly does. Abuse includes mockery, ridicule, name calling, etc.

    He's being a bully, pure and simple - using his popularity to shove around others. That should not be tolerated, full stop.

    --
    Please help metamoderate.
    1. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      His manner is coarse, but you must admit that he's gotten the job done. Linux advances on schedule, patches get incorporated, code gets tested, and all proceeds smoothly.

    2. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by mark_reh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree. Political correctness of the 90s has led to today's "rule" that all opinions are valid and of equal value when anyone with a functional brain knows they are not. Linus is merely saying what ought to be said. Maybe a little public ridicule will be the motivating force to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

      Would you prefer we hand the developers an award for "participation"?

    3. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And Mussolini made the trains run on time?

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    4. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by SuperBanana · · Score: 1, Insightful

      His manner is coarse

      It's not "coarse", it's abusive. Namecalling, mocking, ridicule, hyperbole. That's abuse.

      you must admit that he's gotten the job done. Linux advances on schedule, patches get incorporated, code gets tested, and all proceeds smoothly.

      I sacrificed a chicken yesterday and successfully committed code. You must admit that the ritualistic sacrifice got the job done.

      ("Getting the job done" does not, and has never required being abusive to others. Getting the job done while being abusive is not proof that being abusive is required or even was part of, "getting the job done.")

      --
      Please help metamoderate.
    5. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only way to cajole passive aggressives into taking action is to shame them publicly. That's why they whine like little babies and play the victim role. Unfortunately, passive aggressive dynamics run so much of society nowadays that they've been codified into law as 'rights', and the bluntness/truth that contradicts them, 'hate crimes.'

      A well placed 'Fuck you!' can save years and years of mountainous, expensive political tugs of war.

    6. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nobody cares what code you committed. Butthurt v. 2.1 was working fine before your 'improvements.' Just cut out the 'abusive' crap. You sound like some sort of social worker.

    7. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by tero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did you actually read the thread?
      You know, where Linus tracks down the thing and collaborates very professionally with other devs?

      Yes, he uses harsh language at times, but who the fuck doesn't. He does not work in enterprise environment, it's his own mailinglist.

    8. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But you couldn't ignore Mussolini and move on if you did not like his leadership. Here you can.

    9. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Please point me to the fine print that requires me to treat incompetent people who waste my time and cause others to falsely accuse me of creating code that crashes their computer in any other manner. As far as I am concerened, Linus was far too nice.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    10. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that you don't know what does and does not constitute the kernel is a tribute to your cluelessness. Extra points for not knowing that Linus always openly acknowleges that he doesn't do most of the work but still gets most of the credit. Linus is actually a very humble guy. He just doesn't suffer fools well, which explains your butthurt completely, of course.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    11. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not "coarse", it's abusive. Namecalling, mocking, ridicule, hyperbole. That's abuse.

      none of which was aimed even remotely in the direction of gcc developers personally, but rather to the compiler version one of linus' own peers was using. and using language style the recipient and the mailing list (his mailing list, btw, not gcc's) are likely accustomed to whenever linus runs into a really stupid issue that is none of theirs' fault.

      have you just learned to read recently? were you dropped on your head into a pile of sloth droppings as an infant? fail the sat critical reading exam? i know it must be embarrassing, but you'll get better over time, maybe. now *those* were targeted at you directly, not your keyboard's output itself. see the difference?

    12. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here's how a REAL professional behaves. The CEO of Boeing told analysis that he makes his employees "cower", and actually thought that would be a funny joke. Everyone knew that Steve Jobs was something of an asshole. So is Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. A lot of the most famous and effective military leaders were real sons of bitches as well. Patton comes to mind, as does his long-time rival, Monty. Norman Schwarzkopf was known for his fiery temper, which gave him the nickname "Stormin' Norman".

      Most professional communities are rather pragmatic, and ultimately rewards *success* above all else, unless you cross over a very big line, like doing something illegal, or embarrassing your company to such a degree that it has a negative effect on business (e.g. Patton slapping a soldier). There may something about those personality types that are driven to succeed. It's not universal, of course. Pete Carrol, the head coach of last year's Superbowl winning Seattle Seahawks, is known for being a very nice and laid-back guy, and doesn't fit the typical mode of the "screamer" type coaches we've all seen.

      Look, I'm not going to defend Torvold's rants. I think they're childish as well, but let's not kid ourselves. These sort of rants and worse happen all the time in "professional" environments. Would it be great if people were universally nicer to each other? Sure. But when getting a job done, is being nice or being competent more important?

      At least he hasn't tossed any chairs around that we know of.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    13. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by EdmundSS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How else do you make the trains run on time...?

      You adjust the timetable to match reality. The trains aren't any faster, but the timetable no longer lies.

    14. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, he uses harsh language at times, but who the fuck doesn't.

      Let's look at two ways someone might respond to your viewpoint:

      (1) How could a stupid cunt like you even bother posting such a moronic comment? Seriously, go die in a fire and I hope your kids get leukemia. Only someone with severe autism and Down's syndrome would be so clueless about psychology.

      (2) I disagree. I think most gcc developers would fix this kind of bug quickly if it were pointed out. They'd also perhaps be open to a broader discussion about quality control.

      It seems like you're saying that we should all accept (1) and (2) as interchangeable, and if someone has a problem with (1) he needs to just grow a thicker skin. I think that's unreasonable, and not a standard of discourse that many of us want to work with.

    15. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He didn't get the job done in this case, though. He sent an abusive email about a bug that had already been patched, with a tirade about register spills that aren't even related to the bug.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    16. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with political correctness; this has to do with being polite and professional. A useful attitude when dealing with other people, and that goes double when you are a public figure whose word carries a lot of weight. You and he may think being abusive is fine and gets results, well, more power to you. But it also means people will simply start avoiding you and your projects.

      6 years ago I set myself a goal that I have reached since: to never work for any asshole again, and to set myself up so that I can comfortably walk away from any job. Now I know I can walk away, and it makes a world of difference in the way I approach my work. My managers also know it, and it makes a difference there too, and in my view I enjoy an altogether healthier working relationship with them. The world needs Linus more than it needs most of us, but that doesn't mean any of us have to stand there and take his abuse while kowtowing to him. The guy needs a good dose of humility.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    17. Re: I know you're trying to be funny, but... by chaboud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, but in an environment driven by praise and scorn more than money, this type of feedback is not only effective, but also probably essential. The absolute sharpest development environment I've ever worked in (in 16 years as a professional programmer) was an environment of harsh, ultra critical abuse and genuine unadulterated excitement and praise on success.

      Linus verbally abuses people who shit out bad code because it reduces the likelihood that others will shit out bad code. He also cares about the code base and tool chain and expects others to do the same or get out of the sandbox.

      In an environment where people can't be fired, this type of political play is all that exists. Growing up in an environment of complete terror of sloppiness mixed with genuine comraderie was the single best thing for my growth as an engineer that I have ever experienced.

      In an environment of people who can take it, it works. An environment of people who need only positive reinforcement or carefully metered criticism is one that will almost certainly produce shitty code and operate inefficiently.

      Besides, head-dropped sloth? That shit is just funny. If that is too much for you, good luck in the real world.

    18. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >("Getting the job done" does not, and has never required being abusive to others. Getting the job done while being abusive is not proof that being abusive is required or even was part of, "getting the job done.")

      Hmmm.. I'm going to disagree here. Being verbally abusive is a technique to demand change in an organization. We all like to think leaders all command respect and everyone just follows them because they're the leader. Bullshit. One technique, employed by MANY leaders is being a total fucking asshole, at least part of the time. You think anyone would be talking about this GCC bullshit (and if what Torvalds says is right, it's really completely fucked up, and not excusable) if Linus just put a nice, politely worded request to just fix shit? I don't think so. But even if he was nice and polite, and got the thing fixed, there's little or no consequence for the fuckup, so it can happen again. If you're coding GCC, maybe you might at least sub-consciously think "boy, I better not release utter shit, or I'll catch some serious shit from that asshole Linus Torvalds... what a cock gobbling asshole that Torvalds is".

      This idea you have that everything can work in a nice polite society where everyone has mutual respect for each other can work sometimes, in limited capacities. But the norm is for assholes like Linus to sometimes throw shit-fits, and others to work in fear of having a shit-fit thrown at them sometimes.

      Is that the ONLY way to run an organization? Probably not, but as another thread points out, it's a common pattern of effective leaders.

      --
      AccountKiller
    19. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by walshy007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From linus at a prior time

      Oh, I'll be polite when it's called for. But when people who know better send me crap, I'll curse at them. I suspect you'll notice me cursing *way* more at top developers than random people on the list. I expect more from them, and conversely I'll be a lot more upset when they do something that I really think was not great. For example, my latest cursing explosion was for the x86 maintainers, and it comes from the fact that I *know* they know to do better. The x86 tip pulls have generally been through way more testing than most other pulls I get (not just compiling, but even booting randconfigs etc). So when an x86 pull request comes in that clearly missed that expected level of quality, I go to town. Similarly, you will see fireworks if some long-term maintainer makes excuses for breaking user space etc. That will make me go into incoherent rages. The "polite Linus" example that you point to? That was a maintainer asking for direction for when things went wrong and *before* sending me something dubious. Of course I'm polite then. Sarah, I don't have Tourettes syndrome. You seem to think that my cursing is uncontrolled and random. I argue that it has causes. Big difference.

      Yes. And I do it partly (mostly) because it's who I am, and partly because I honestly despise being subtle or "nice". The fact is, people need to know what my position on things are. And I can't just say "please don't do that", because people won't listen. I say "On the internet, nobody can hear you being subtle," and I mean it. And I definitely am not willing to string people along, either. I've had that happen too—not telling people clearly enough that I don't like their approach, they go on to re-architect something, and get really upset when I am then not willing to take their work. Sarah, first off, I don't have that many tools at hand. Secondly, I simply don't believe in being polite or politically correct. And you can point at all those cultural factors where some cultures are not happy with confrontation (and feel free to make it about gender too—I think that's almost entirely cultural too). And please bring up "cultural sensitivity" while at it. And I'll give you back that same "cultural sensitivity". Please be sensitive to _my_ culture too.

      In effect you are whining that calling a crap code submission crap is not professional. Linus is a very pragmatic and practical man. That so many people want everything to go smoothly and politely even when shitty things are submitted/done reflects poorly on that "everyone is a winner" kind of culture that propagates that mentality.

      We should not prioritize peoples feelings over code quality. If something horribly break things that we've known for a while and know they are capable of better, we should be able to tell people that that was crap and we expect more of them without them whinging to the political correctness police yelling "abuse".

      This mentality seems to keep on spreading amongst the new generations, and I fear for what the software development industry will look like in fifty years with all of the pragmatic people thrown out by those more concerned of peoples feelings.

    20. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is also a common pattern of ineffective leaders. Hence bringing into question if it actually does add to the effectiveness of said leaders.

    21. Re: I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A guy in charge of a big open source project swears at a specific version of a compiler in a development related mail list, and that triggers an article + 418 comments?

      Nobody at the mail thread complained and he filed a bug at the gcc tracker with the specific details and no swearing.

      Is it really worth to make a big deal out of every thing this guy says?

    22. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Sproggit · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, the code did not write itself.
      Somebody wrote a steaming pile of shit, and submitted it to one of the MOST important branches of open source development content.

      Did they test it before committing?
      Y) - Then why commit shit you know is shit?
      N) - How can you commit without testing?

      There is NO excuse for knowingly submitting code THIS broken.
      There is even LESS excuse for unknowingly submitting feces instead of decent code.

      If the developer of the code is actually talented, they will appreciate the enormity of their blunder, and instead of being a "modern-day oversensitive, metrosexual, lets not have any winners but give everyone a prize, oh shame but didn't he try hard, but what about his feelings?" fuckup, they'll not do it again.

      If they're not talented, they can fuckoff and code for someone else.

      Simple. no?

    23. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by smash · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And this kids, is why Linux will never enjoy significant market share on end user devices.

      And yes, I'm sure someone will mention Android. Yeah sure, it's Linux. Just keep telling yourself that.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    24. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem stems from your lack of understanding of humility. Often people confuse confidence and knowlege with arrogance. They also confuse the willingness to have and express strong opinions with arrogance. None of these things are arrogance. In other words, if you really are smarter than the mass of men, knowing that is not arrogance. Indeed, we have a classification for people who actually are better at something and know it but pretend they are not. It is called false humility. Being humble means acknowleging ones strengths and weaknesses, as well as not believing that ones strengths make them a more valuable human being.

      People who lack humility don't make self deprecating jokes. Ever.

      If you investigate why he chose git as the name for his SCM tool, you will start to get an idea of his humility. When he says that others do all the work and he gets all the credit, he is specifically being openly self-deprecating. If you really believe he doesn't do a shit ton of the very important work then you are quite mistaken. After all, who tracked down this very subtle bug, which requires an in depth knowlege of both the kernel and assembly language?

      Finally, most of the criticism that comes his way comes from people who don't understand his humor. You can watch his 1995 Google talk on git, where he calls people who use SVN ugly and stupid, to see an example of his humor. If you really think he is arrogant then you are ugly and stupid :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  5. Re:Oe noes! A compiler bug! by NotInHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    End result, the GCC people will fix this bug in short order (what are GCC point releases for anyway)

    The bug was reported 4 point releases ago. It just now started effecting the kernel.

    In fact, it has been fixed in trunk even before Linus' rant.
    https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/s...

  6. Re:Oe noes! A compiler bug! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    GCC is a mess that has been getting consistently worse since 3.0. It's so bad that compiling GCC with GCC, with any CPU optimizations enabled, produces a non-working compiler.

    [citation needed]

    It just keeps getting bigger and slower, and has a great many proprietary GCC-isms that open source developers keep using, not even realizing they're bugs.

    Every single compiler out there offers nonportable extensions.

    Either you're not looking (myopia is fun), or you have very little experience with other modern compilers.

    I could level the same complaint at you. The other compilers have more. Like full up ICE crashes.

    Only true if you drink rms' kool-aid...

    Ah and now we get to the root of it. You've decided to throw logic and facts to the wind and just go off on an I-hate-RMS-so-I-hate-GCC-by-proxy rant.

    Grow up.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  7. Re:Strange censorship by MindPrison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "pure and utter sh*t," only with no asterisk

    So he actually called it, "pure and utter sht"?

    Remember, that's the guy that said "Nvidia, F*CK YOU!". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
    He's a passionate, colorful character...he's been like that for as long as I can remember him. Thank god there's still awesome nerds out there that just can't be bought.

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
  8. Re:Strawman argument by NotSanguine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Strawman argument. Nobody except you has posited that "all opinions are valid", and nobody suggested that criticisms can't be made. You invented that position to attack it.

    I specifically said: it's fine to tell people they did something wrong. What you may not do is be abusive.

    Actually, I can be abusive if I choose to be. It may not win me many friends and it may alienate the ones I do have, but I can certainly do so if I want.

    Whether or not Linus advances Linux because of, or in spite of, being abusive is an open question.

    As Louis Brandeis (and correctly, IMHO) pointed out, "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  9. Why does anyone work with this guy? by voltorb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, let's pretend that 80+% of the world isn't using Android, not to mention supercomputers or huge server deployments. What you're missing is not everyone is using an IBM compatible PC and play games whole day in their mom's basement.

  10. Re:Linux, a miracle by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because every truly competent developer agrrees with him. We all hate incompetence, and Linus speaks for us all when he lays in to some incompetent for sullying the gene pool of software developers everywhere. Linus' approach has a truly wonderful effect. The incompetent people run away crying "Ohh Noze! He was mean to me! Doesn't he know that I have a right to be incompetent and still be treated with kid gloves??!!!". The competent people say "Thank you Linus for saying what we all wanted to say!" and continue to develop. I have no idea if the effect of his tirades is intentional, but make no mistake about it. It is not merely acceptable. It is ideal.

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  11. Strawman argument by aaribaud · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, if you RTFP, Linus is abusing the *compiler*'s behavior. At no point does he abuse the compiler authors.

  12. Fuckin' C*nsorship by Kremmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand it anymore. How are we not beyond the need to replace random letters with asterix? I mean honestly, the summary goes on to comment about it. It's a waste of space. Just fucking say it already.

  13. Re:Linux, a miracle by nyet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because if you aren't incompetent, you won't get yelled at.

    Unlike a corporate structure, where you don't get yelled if you play the game right.

    If you are incompetent, please don't develop linux kernel code. Go work for a corporation.You'll find you're a better fit, and if you play your cards right, you won't get yelled at no matter how bad you are at your job.

  14. Technical Merit really overrated by Crashmarik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of the winners in computing, those that won because of technical merit are swarmed by those that won for other reasons.

    I mean just look at some of the match ups
    DOS vs Everything else available ?
    Windows vs Everything else
    Microsoft office vs Everything else
    X86 vs Everything else
    ISA bus vs NuBus vs MCA
    DirectX vs OpenGL

    Technical merit only seems to matter when it completely crushes every other factor as in transistor vs tube, IC vs transistor, CMOS vs TTL.

  15. Not all means of expression are valid & equal by Geof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your argument applies to itself. You are accusing people of abdicating judgment: your solution is to not judge Linus! Furthermore, you are confusing criticism of the messenger with criticism of the message; as SuperBanana points out, this is a straw man argument.

    Not all opinions are valid and equal: nor are all means of expressing them. We have the right to speak freely; we also have the right to judge such speech as invalid or unacceptable. I suggest this right to judge is in fact an obligation. Silence implies consent. Abusive behavior should be called out. You may argue that Linus was not abusive, but to argue that we should never make such judgments in the first place is to fall prey to the false equivalence you decry.

  16. Re:Strawman argument by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What exactly does 'abusive' mean when a european kernel crafter is accusing a 'free speech' american compiler crafter that his compiler is utter shit?
    Either the compiler is 'utter shit' and the accusation is a fact and proclaiming so is free speech or it is not, then it might be considered 'abusive'.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  17. Re:I know you're trying to be funny, but...ppl by VTBlue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm super tired of this BS argument. I'm sick and tired of high performing professional being criticized for expecting high standards from others. Not every job requires or should have an abstraction layer of "people development," "life coaching," or professional courtesy and pleasantries. Some jobs, the jobs that truly change of course of human events requires breathtaking sacrifice, most significantly of all, putting aside ones ego when called out. If someone calls me an idiot for being wrong, whether justified or not, I'm still wrong and I accept it. If my performance is so shoddy that I get called out as incompetent, than an introspective person should have the maturity to realize that he or she caused such frustration to the other person that such words were uttered. To be able to take this is the sign of a true professional and leader. If you can't take the heat, just GTFO of the way, and go work at a Fortune 500 with regular white collar people with thin skin.

  18. Re:I was moderately amused by the typos by VTBlue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not ginned up outrage to waste dozens of man hours for someone else's mistake. GCC can be considered a Teir 1 OSS project. For a major point release to have an issue that, if verified, causes the founder of Linux to call it crap, then raw criticism is warranted. Raw, unfiltered , communication amongst trusted engineers leads to better outcome, I have found in my career. Keep the politically correct crap outside of the engineering room.

  19. Re:Strawman argument by Zaelath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You position holds true when dealing with a small child.

    If some smears his own feces on a wall and they are:
    - 2 years old; you scold them gently and clean them up first, then the wall.
    - 20 years old; yeah... not so much. If a little abuse is all you get you're probably lucky.

    You've asserted several times that people may not be abusive, and other people have run with some kind of silly argument that Linus isn't, but neither your assertion nor their tangent makes you right.

  20. Let's see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's see:
    (1) Microsoft had one guy who dumped on people by calling them "random" (kind of a great insult, actually) and another guy who threw chairs. Dipstick score: 2 Results: tops in their industry.

    (2) Apple has a massive "motivator", spelled a-s-s-h-o-l-e, tolerating zero garbage and pushing coders harder than Cleopatra pushed rowers. Dipstick score: 1 Results: biggest and most profitable company, period.

    (3) Linux exists at all, despite being given away for free, decades after it was introduced. It is ubiquitous, runs on mainframes and thimbles, and more cell phones than iOS. Chief penguinisto occasionally says "This crap tastes like crap." Dipstick score: 0 Results: most improbably popular free code ever.

    Seems like 2014 just might have been the year of Linux on the desktop if Linus had taken some chair-throwing, and stock-option-hoarding lessons from his peers.

  21. I'd bet Linus is fully right on this one. by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously, the GCC is a prestige project just like the kernel. You have to have the basics of your particular software development field down, otherwise you have no business whatsoever lost in these projects. I don't know the details and I certainly can't judge them, but from the broad perspective it seems like somebody did something akin to not avalidating and filtering your input or pushing windows-1252 but presenting it as UTF-8 or something in webdevelopment and it passed all the way through evaluation, testing, merging, release management, etc. right into the final GCC release. Which does reflect on to the entire team and project.

    Bottom line: When Linus has released rants like these in the past he usually was spot on and dead right. The GCC has gotten some flak for it's shittyness lately, and it looks like they haven't improved their process much yet.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca