Russia Cracks Down On Public Wi-Fi; Oracle Blocks Java Downloads In Russia

Linking to a story at Reuters, reader WilliamGeorge writes "Russia is further constraining access to the internet and freedom of speech, with new laws regarding public use of WiFi. Nikolai Nikiforov, the Russian Communications Minister, tweeted that "Identification of users (via bank cards, cell phone numbers, etc.) with access to public Wifi is a worldwide practice." This comes on top of their actions recently to block websites of political opponents to Russian president Vladimir Putin, require registration of prominent bloggers, and more. The law was put into effect with little notice and without the input of Russian internet providers. Sergei Plugotarenko, head of the Russian Electronic Communications Association, said "It was unexpected, signed in such a short time and without consulting us." He added, "We will hope that this restrictive tendency stops at some point because soon won't there be anything left to ban." In addition to the ID requirement to use WiFi, the new law also requires companies to declare who is using their web networks and calls for Russian websites to store their data on servers located in Russia starting in 2016." That's not the only crackdown in progress, though: former Slashdot code-wrestler Vlad Kulchitski notes that Russian users are being blocked from downloading Java with an error message that reads, in essence, "You are in a country on which there is embargo; you cannot download JAVA." Readers at Hacker News note the same, though comments there indicate that the block may rely on a " specific and narrow IP-block," rather than being widespread. If you're reading this from Russia, what do you find?

Comments

The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

Is that we never end them. We implement them, then due to our collective national ego that manifests most clearly in congress, never roll them back for partial success. We take a hardline of "our way or the highway" and the highway ends up looking more appealing to your Cubas, your Irans, and now your Russias.

"The stick" only works when the donkey can see a future where it won't be beaten.

P.S. That's not to say anything other than screw Putin and his imperial ambitions.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

Not exactly true, we do roll them back every so often.... We pretty much ended hostilities with Japan and Germany, both of which where under US trade sanctions previously... Then there is South Africa, we sanctions them previously but restored relations when they came around. Same with Iran and Turkey, we dropped sanctions on them in the past, even if we've cycled back to having them of late.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

who's this 'we' of which you speak? i don't remember being asked if i wanted to embargo anyone ever.
p.s. chastising putin for imperial ambitions is probably the funniest (saddest, and ironic) thing ive heard all day.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Jaysyn]

I fucking wish Obama had the nads to say something even close to that publicly.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

remember the gulf of tonkin! grrr!

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Obfuscant]

You read that whole thing about what Russia is doing to control the Internet and you convert that into an anti-US rant?

I'm surprised you didn't point out the positive side of the whole affair, which is that Russia has a legislative system which isn't in the pockets of the evil capitalist corporations since these laws were implemented without any input from the ISPs.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

Uh, I'm pretty sure the article also addresses something the US is doing, and I directly condemned Putin. Stop writing false motivations onto me.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Greek (we also -reluctantly- embargo Russia because Greece is part of EU and NATO, and Russia -reluctantly- embargo Greece) i think i understand this specific situation a little better since i am "a third independent party": USA and EU cannot do anything about Ukraine (because Russia... is Russia... not Cuba or Iran...), so with those embargos they act like they do something (they cannot "lose face" to the rest of the world and their citizens) - and this embargo will end very soon (again, because Russia is not Cuba or Iran...).

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[pixelpusher220]

a friend of mine commented "just once I wish Obama would show up at a press conference in overalls with 2 pitbulls on chains and rant like the angry black man the right accuses him of being"

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! We should govern by polling EVERYONE in the country. Maybe every day someone should post all the foreign relations issues and potential solutions, and we can all Facebook like the ones we like and the ones we don't. Hmmm. That might be hard to manage with a population of several hundred million. Perhaps we could break up the population into smaller groups and have some sort of arrangement where there are representatives chosen from the groups of people who give input into how they're governed. But what would one call such a system of representatives governing? Hmmm.

On your other topic, what point are you making regarding Putin? Are you arguing he doesn't have imperial ambitions? Would it be imperial ambitions if he rolled into a few more countries, or will you just see that as gettin' the old band back together?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Obfuscant]

Uh, I'm pretty sure the article also addresses something the US is doing,

As large a corporation as it is, Oracle is not the US government.

and I directly condemned Putin.

A postscript is not directly anything. It is an afterthought.

Stop writing false motivations onto me.

I said nothing about your motivations, only your actions.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

What an articulate and meaningful assertion about complex geopolitics, the role of corporations in supporting the political interests in the states they're invested in, law enforcement, and how the Internet influences peoples' ability to circumvent law.

No wait. It's just asinine.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[SydShamino]

You were presented with a candidate slate containing Candidate A and Candidate B. You chose to vote for Candidate A, or Candidate B, or not to vote.

In any of the three cases, you were electing a representative that voted on the embargo for you.

Not that I think one is wrong against Russia right now..

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

your statement assumes two things incorrectly:
1) that an abstention from playing a game that is rigged somehow still leaves the party culpable to the actions of said game.
but more importantly,

2) that voting for A, B, C, or D would have in any way shape of form influenced the outcome, as all of the above cowtow to the same deep state policies regardless.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

The president needs to turn off the speech recognition on his blackberry.... Especially when he's meeting with the Joint Chiefs....

Darn open mics anyway....

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

As large a corporation as it is, Oracle is not the US government.

Ok, from the damned summary.

"You are in a country on which there is embargo; you cannot download JAVA

I don't think you know what embargo means.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

Russia has a legislative system which isn't in the pockets of the evil capitalist corporations since these laws were implemented without any input from the ISPs.

Yea, they pretty much pass any law Putin tells them to instead of listening to the lobbyists hired by industry. Like that's SO much better.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

And the principle is what, exactly? Refusing enforcement of an embargo? Why?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[mjwalshe]

MM id refer his take on Morpheus from the Matrix Micelle can do Trinity I am she would look good in PVC - and the Secret Service can dump the boring suits and go Cyberpunk :-)

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

If he is taking away Java, he is good in my book. Now, take it away from everyone else. Fuck anything and everything Java.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

Because you're talking in pointless aphorisms, and non-export restrictions imposed on companies as a means of punishing a country for its actions is greatly preferable to war.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[jon3k]

This sure sounds familiar. Russia calls us out for it all the time, why wouldn't we do the same?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[umghhh]

it is? You must get different news feeds that I do.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[wiredlogic]

The continued embargo against Cuba is more about pandering for Cuban-American votes than enforcing any foreign policy.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

who's this 'we' of which you speak?

In case the antecedent of the pronoun "we" wasn't clear, I was referring to the population of the United States under which authority the Government acts.

BTW, your suggestion that we govern ourselves using a PURE democracy is a really BAD idea. We proved that with the Mayflower Compact in Jamestown nearly 350 years ago. I prefer we stick to the representative republic model which works a lot better.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

Exactly! We should govern by polling EVERYONE in the country. Maybe every day someone should post all the foreign relations issues and potential solutions, and we can all Facebook like the ones we like and the ones we don't. Hmmm. That might be hard to manage with a population of several hundred million. Perhaps we could break up the population into smaller groups and have some sort of arrangement where there are representatives chosen from the groups of people who give input into how they're governed. But what would one call such a system of representatives governing? Hmmm.

On your other topic, what point are you making regarding Putin? Are you arguing he doesn't have imperial ambitions? Would it be imperial ambitions if he rolled into a few more countries, or will you just see that as gettin' the old band back together?

Love the history lesson.. Well played and exactly correct.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[RenderSeven]

remember the gulf of tonkin!

Last time I filled up there, I used Exxon of Tonkin

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[NicBenjamin]

The reason the so-called "deep state" is totally immune to public pressure is that most of the public likes damn near everything it does. In fact if you actually had a referendum on any aspect of the "deep state" that you personally oppose, you'd almost certainly lose damn near every point. Jack Bauer is the deep state, and he gets great ratings because as far as the American people are concerned, having a badass motherfucker oppress dirty foreigners without having to bother with any stupid paperwork is the ideal situation.

Sanctions are actually an excellent example. Most people want the US to take strong positions on almost every imaginable issue in foreign affairs. They tend not to want actual military action, because a) that costs money, which means taxes, b) American troops could get hurt, and c) any sufficiently large military action will include a certain amount of dead civilians. So you get half-assed bullshit opposition like sanctions. Europe is even worse, because the EU is specifically designed to be unable to do anything that is not hall-assed bullshit.

Then since the American people were told the sanctions would magically make Cuba free, ending the sanctions is unacceptable to them unless Cuba gets free. To them the point of the sanctions was to get Cuba free, and if the sanctions don;t do the trick ending them without replacing them with a tougher option is basically admitting there's no point in fighting for Cuban freedom.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[bobbied]

Which is why, apart from voting, you also have the right of petition.

This country need a whole lot less complaining and a whole lot more exercise of personal rights, like voting and petition. I'd go so far as to say if you are complaining and you HAVEN'T voted or tried the petition route, I'm not very motivated to listen to your complaints..

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Charliemopps]

Is that we never end them. We implement them, then due to our collective national ego that manifests most clearly in congress, never roll them back for partial success. We take a hardline of "our way or the highway" and the highway ends up looking more appealing to your Cubas, your Irans, and now your Russias.

"The stick" only works when the donkey can see a future where it won't be beaten.

P.S. That's not to say anything other than screw Putin and his imperial ambitions.

The US imposes and ends Embargoes all the time. There are a few notable exceptions like Cuba, but to claim that is the norm is a bit silly. An Embargo on Russia is the absolute least the US should have done. Remember, we signed a treaty with Ukraine that assured we would aid them in the event of a war, if in return they gave up their nuclear weapons. Currently Obama is using the excuse that this not a war, but a civil issue to avoid fulfilling that treaty.

Now, I'm a libertarian (a real one) and as far as I'm concerned what's happening there is none of our damned business. But, we signed a treaty. We should uphold obligations we willingly signed up for. In the future, should we approach another country and ask them to dismantle their nuclear weapons, they'll very likely reply "Like the Russian province formally called Ukraine did? No thank you."

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[NicBenjamin]

By every definition of Imperialism I've ever seen the Russians are doing a lot more of it then the US. Putin is trying to increase his sphere of influence with the Eurasian Union. eat bits of neighbors who rock his boat, refusing to give up control of a region that included a major military base, etc.

OTOH, Obama isn't setting up any new organizations. He's abandoned a fairly large country that included a lot of US bases entirely. He really doesn't want to go back, even tho he doesn't have much option. He's not shy about telling people he'll happily turn over two other (Afghanistan and Pakistan) allies to anyone who will take them if the Afghans decide they don't want American troops on their soil.

It's true the US has a large alliance-system that many have likened to an Empire, but there's a massive difference between forcing Canada to coordinate it's policy with the US and letting the Canadians coordinate their policy with the US because the Canadian people have chosen to elect Steven Harper. The former is the definition of Imperialism. The latter is the opposite.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[kloro2006]

Reuters i believe is one of the press d*cks -- oops organs -- which helped bring us the u.s. government's 9/11 excuse for unleashing terrorists on its citizens. and helped as well to bring us WMD, as well as the Iran program to build an H bomb, as well as [fill in your favorite]. or am i misinformed?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't specially like wars, even the undeclared ones, be them by Russia, the USA or any other little stupid nation with nuclear power. I don't have people who go to war in high regard, too. Nor do I deem the unfortunate fellows who travel to kill people as any kind of heroes.

But the point here is: we need another Java. It's important in banking, Linux depends on it for a multitude of uses... we cannot be held hostages by Oracle -- or the USA, for that matter.

Alas, does it help in anyway solve the Crimea crisis? If Java was a technology made by another country, would anyone be happy if they said the USA cannot use it? I bet the USA would quickly come up with their own version, which is what Russia must be doing next on their list now.

PS: If you have any "treason" remark to make, get lost. I'm not an US citizen -- I have freedom of expression... for real.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing IR-655 doesn't count as killing babies in your book? On the one hand you have badly trained seperatists and the other hand you have highly trained weapons operators on active duty using advanced warship and weapon targeting equipment. Who made the biggest mistake?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[nurb432]

Russia has a legislative system which isn't in the pockets of the evil capitalist corporations

No, just in the back pocket of corrupt socialists...

If i had to choose, id still choose cooperation control over socialism. I like having a job and food to eat.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Anonymous Coward]

absolutely wrong, this is about spheres of influence and by definition imperialism.

No, he's fine. Maintaining "spheres of influence" is, as you put it, by definition hegemony. Imperialism involves hegemony, but the two are not synonyms. Conflating the two is misleading, but understandable.

The difference could be seen in the fact that the USA had to put pressure on an Iraqi government that is now friendly with Iran to get military advisers back into Iraq, while Russia can now do whatever it wants in Crimea without consulting Ukraine or the Crimean Tartars or anyone else.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[murdocj]

Really? you aren't really comparing the USA to Russia, are you? Russia? Where running against Putin puts you in jail indefinitely? Where being gay is illegal?

Ah yes, Slashdot... welcome to the herd.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[i kan reed]

Because? Stop falling back on a mindless saying and justify yourself

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[kloro2006]

it never had to happen. responsible leaders north and south were working towards a resolution of the problem. the brits manipulated the situation so that the fire eaters in the south and extremist abolitionists in the north got hold of the situation and stampeded the country into fratricide. this was the beginning of the end for the Republic. it left us with a standing army, a policy of aggression against the third world, and the beginnings of a police state. worst of all, it left us with a ruling class which is the plaything of the brits. Lincoln was a tool of the brits.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[IgShaman81]

Ok so to sum this up quickly. Countries with civil/religion-based wars, going for 5 years or more: Yugoslavia, Ireland, Spain (Basks), Iraq, Afghanistan. Country where there was no war, perhaps only a short 3-month civil unrest with casualties under 200: Ukraine. No deaths or civil unrest in Crimea. And look, Russian peacekeepers are still claiming their right to protect something from somebody.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[gl4ss]

Putin is a dickweed.

if there's someone that should be taken down a notch it's him, but his sort of trapped now in his politics of grandness. it's all a show to keep people off the streets in russia - which has happened before and can happen again. minority bashing, "taking back what's ours" another. but it is costing him a shitload of money.

Why the fuck do you think he's so scared of what happened in Ukraine? Losing Trade? the people got up and threw out the russian mob leader.

but asking the average american on the street? I doubt they'll even know where russia is or how big it's economy is(pretty fucking small for a country the size of it, think california size).

putin should be embargoed for a number of reasons and donetks situation is just one of them.

and I say this as a Finnish person and Finland is one of the countries hit most by the embargo because we actually do trade with Russia. I mean, do you think the Russian elite wants to eat Russian cheese or Finnish cheese? Their food sucks, their roads suck, their ports suck(thus shipping lot of merchandise to Russia through Finland), the business environment sucks(you cannot trust land leases or rule of law), Russia needs to be dragged to this century already.

It's not just an american embargo. in fact, USA has the least to lose and EU could have given the finger to USA on the matter but fuck, enough is enough. monetary wise Germany loses the most business, but percentually perhaps Finland.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[dunkelfalke]

If you want to criticise Russia, you should better chose some valid points, not parrot some hearsay.
Being gay is not illegal in Russia. Talking about it is.
Running against Putin is not illegal in Russia as well. Zyuganov ran against Putin several times, as a head of the second largest party in Russia. Jailed? Nope.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Clsid]

It is funny that nowadays you guys still don't get it. Remember how the British were mighty proud while the Empire was doing all sorts of horrendous things around the world? Guess what, Americans are the new version of that. Russia is also playing that game as well, only with bordering countries, but to take this high moral stand as an American and talk about imperial ambitions of somebody else is absurd to the point it is funny.

I'm pretty sure most Ukranians that don't give a damn about politics really love how their country has become a playground for international geopolitics, with the EU actively supporting the overthrowing of the govt and then the Russians annexing part of the country.

If you really want to be a sensible person, as an American you should just say no to war, no to foreign interventions and just learn to accept that the world does not need a country to act like the world police, because in person, you guys actually behave way better than most Europeans when it comes to issues like racism and multiculturalism in general, but I'm from Latin America and speaking as a world citizen, we have had enough of your foreign policy Kool-Aid already.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[shutdown -p now]

Running against Putin is not illegal so long as you don't actually try to win. That's why the "old opposition" dummies keep running every cycle, but any new and potentially dangerous candidate is refused registration, or slapped down with some law.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[shutdown -p now]

There are numerous examples, some as late as early 90s. Start here, and flip through the pages for other states:

http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaw...

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[IamTheRealMike]

By every definition of Imperialism I've ever seen the Russians are doing a lot more of it then the US. Putin is trying to increase his sphere of influence with the Eurasian Union. eat bits of neighbors who rock his boat, refusing to give up control of a region that included a major military base, etc.

Hardly. If you buy the western line that the rebels in east Ukraine are all reporting directly to Putin then yes, but nobody with any knowledge does buy that line, it's clearly nonsense. Putin told them not to have a referendum, they ignored him. The rebels asked Russia to annex east Ukraine, Putin ignored them. He certainly did not order anyone to shoot down a civilian air liner.

Meanwhile, in the last few years the USA has formally established the global American empire for the first time. Yes, before 2010 it was largely a matter of pressure and the belief by world leaders that America would engage in economic warfare against anyone, including so called "allies", who defied it. But then America passed a law called FATCA that turns every bank or financial institution in the world into an arm of the IRS recursively. Not just institutions that trade with America, but all of them, every last one, with institutions exposed to the US economy punished unless they in turn enforce Washington's will upon their trading partners and so on. America has also started passing recursive trade sanctions, sanctions that say "you're either with us or against us and if you're against us, you get sanctioned in exactly the same way". They did this for Iran, for example.

Now tell me. What is a country that can tax anyone it likes, anywhere in the world, and punish anyone it likes, anywhere in the world, and force anyone to take part in their economic wars, anywhere in the world, regardless of what those people actually want? The ability to tax and the ability to draft into an army is the defining characteristic of an empire. Russia can't do shit to me here in western Europe but America can and will ruin me if I get on the wrong side of them. That makes me an unwilling citizen of the American empire.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[pushing-robot]

He has someone for that now.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Stan92057]

It has nothing to do with egos except for the egos of the Russians because they are the ones who must back down there are no lollypops for going halffway

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[NicBenjamin]

Like many so-called anti-Imperialists, you have a double-standard.

The only way for the US to support the Syrian people at this moment would be direct military action. So you are calling for a US invasion of Syria. To do anything else is Imperialism. But then you turn around and accuse the US of Imperialism specifically because we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. You can;t have it both ways. Either invading to shoot an evil dictator and replace him with a feckless Democrat is Evil Imperialism or it's not.

As for your points about Iraq and Afghanistan being intended to increase the US sphere, you will note that it has not actually worked.

OTOH, Russia's adventures have increased it's power in Ukraine greatly.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

sigh. the propaganda is strong with this one. ultimately, no good guys on either side, but before you hate someone or something because you are told to, ask - cui bono?

not a bad article..
http://www.theguardian.com/com...

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

i seriously hope for your sake you are at least getting paid for this.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

be careful - they charge you 10 cents more per gallon if you pay by credit card.. sneaky!

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

i dont see any suggestions in my statement. thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, but no thanks. you are either naive beyond words, or a shill. i hate to break it to you, but the real world doesn't work the way you learned in class.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

ism ism ism. i bet you're one of those people who cheers 'we won!' when a dozen or so men you've never met before (and never will) but wear uniforms that have your states name on them beat another team at a game involving a ball and stick.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[NicBenjamin]

I was actually mostly talking about Crimea. In the modern world the borders of an existing nation-state do not change. New states can be created by secession, or merge into a single entity, but the precedent for one country taking part of another is that it stopped happening in 1948. Yet Putin's response to a new government in Ukraine, that might someday decide to take his base away from him, was to change the borders of Ukraine so the Russian bases around Sevastapol were no longer Ukrainian. That is the most Imperialist thing anyone has done since Stalin died.

The support for rebels in the East is just the icing on the cake. And believe me, if he wasn't supporting the rebels in the East they wouldn't have anti-aircraft missiles. It's pretty clear he doesn't want them to win (otherwise the rump of Ukraine would simply join the EU with minimal fuss), but he also wants the area to be a warzone for some reason. Maybe he can't afford the domestic hit of abandoning the rebels. Maybe he wants everyone else to know he don;t back down. But no anti-government group, anywhere, has ever gotten surface-to-air missiles without support from an actual Head of State, and there ain't no Heads of State with the right missiles and a motive to give them to the rebels except Czar Vlad the Plane-blower-upper.

As for FATCA, you do realize every country does this? Seriously, Judgments are made in absentia all the fucking time. FATCA allows the IRS to go after any institution that does business in the US* but doesn't agree to obey our rulings on tax law. Note that this doesn;t apply to our ability to tax "everyone," we only tax citizens or residents of the US so if you renounce your citizenship you're fine.

*Granted technically they can get judgments made against a bank that never does business in the US, but since no US Court would ever have the opportunity to enforce those judgments they don't really.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[Fjandr]

If by absolute support you mean "controls the ballot counting," then yes, he does.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Fjandr]

It's not absurd as long as the American in question is also opposed to their own country's actions. I'm one such. I think the US should be broken up into a dozen or more independent countries, because it's run by imperialist assholes.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[Cyberax]

Right now Putin has 86% approval rating, confirmed by multiple statistics agencies. No way he can be beaten by anybody right now.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[shutdown -p now]

I don't think anyone could win against him, today, or in 2012 for that matter. The point is, some people are actually still trying even so. And those are the ones that have troubles.

Re: The problem with American Embargos

[shutdown -p now]

No, he really does have insane level of support. Highest ever, actually. And it's not just the polls, it's what I see people say on social networks and blogs, too.

Russia is lost for another decade at the very least.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[IamTheRealMike]

No, you don't understand FATCA at all. Go and read how the law works and then come back. Actually don't bother - I already explained to you how the recursive "pass thru provisions" work and you ignored me, instead insisting that the law works differently to how it actually does.

Additionally, the idea that borders stopped changing after 1948 (do you mean 1945?) is ridiculous. What do you think happened after the fall of the Soviet Union? What do you think happened in Iraq when America invaded it?

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[NicBenjamin]

I think I understand FATCA pretty well. And I really don't think you understand how international law has ever worked. An embargo that wasn't recursive would not be an embargo, because most companies American subsidiaries are technically totally different companies then they subsidiary that would actually be selling Iran nuclear material.

So yes, we do this shit all the time. We have done this shit for decades. Every country that enforces sanctions on any other country in the history of the entire human fucking race has done this. Your finance companies are just whining because it's a lot of fucking work and they've never had to bother before. I'm not saying this is a particularly good idea, but just because it's a bad idea doesn't mean it's Imperialist.

Here's another example of your ignorance:
"Border change" is a very specific term. It just hasn't happened since the adoption of the UN Charter in 1948 outright banned all border changes by force, and created a very strong precedent that any border change would be very carefully looked at.

Prior to the adoption of that particular treaty you could date a map of Europe to within a decade or two simply by looking at the borders. Who has Alsace-Lorraine? How about Dobruja? How much of the Ottoman Empire still exists? Post-UN (and post-Stalin redrawing the map) there're no changes for 40 years. After that a lot of states break up, so you can date maps by whether Kosovo exists, but that's not a border change. That's the creation of a new state.

Incidentally, one of Israel's huge problems being taken seriously as a pro-freedom Democracy in compliance with international norms; is that everyone suspects they really want to have more territory then they claimed in '48; and they have already claimed territory nobody recognized as theirs in '48 in East Jerusalem.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[arglebargle_xiv]

If he is taking away Java, he is good in my book. Now, take it away from everyone else. Fuck anything and everything Java.

Exactly. Now all he has to do is block Flash and Acrobat and he's protected mother Russia from 99% of all malware vectors.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[SydShamino]

1) that an abstention from playing a game that is rigged somehow still leaves the party culpable to the actions of said game.

  but more importantly,

2) that voting for A, B, C, or D would have in any way shape of form influenced the outcome, as all of the above cowtow to the same deep state policies regardless.

You are wrong with regard to item 2), as my statement indicates that, regardless of which case he chose, he was supporting a representative that supported the embargo. I think you didn't fully read my post as I said exactly what you think I got wrong.

With regard to item 1), abstention is support. The unnamed fourth option (to candidate A, B, or none) is to run for election yourself, and vote for yourself, while advocating a different policy. That's the option where you clearly distanced yourself from the status quo.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

ok - so hey - you are now playing a game called 'kill all puppies'. I task you with the following choices - a) kill 100 puppies b) kill 1000 puppies c) kill 1,000,000 puppies. what's that? you abstain from choosing a b c ? sorry! you are still playing the game

hey everyone! this guy plays a game called 'kill all puppies'!! what a horrible person!!!

tired of debating this point. if you choose to continue to believe things are a certain way, then so be it. for the rest of us, there's the reality that the fix is in.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G...

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[SydShamino]

By being born, you chose to "play" certain games, including taxation and representation. Sorry, but that's the reality you need to deal with.

Re:The problem with American Embargos

[Cardoor]

nice comeback. take you 4 days to come up with it?

Bye bye Internet

[TheDarkMaster]

It was good while it lasted. Now the real owners of the world came to the conclusion that the internet undermines the total control of them, so they are eliminating it as they did with many other technologies and groups who tried to give power to the people.

Re:Bye bye Internet

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll never kill mesh networking, no matter how hard they try.
In trying, they will only cause a physical war.

Mesh networking is already getting more and more attention in recent years.
It will only grow over the next 6, and even more so.
And with things like Piratebox, it will even be easy for regular people to setup eventually.
It just needs a little tidying up though. Once it reaches the point of being as easy as, say, Tor, then it might work.

By doing this, they are only making it CONSIDERABLY harder for them to police things.
They will cause their own anarchy.

Re:Bye bye Internet

[rubycodez]

dream on, meatbag. mesh networking can't make a continental network, let alone a global one.

large providers constitute the backbone of the internet, and governments have absolute control over them. get over it.

Re:Bye bye Internet

[nurb432]

bye bye open internet.. the darknet will survive and prosper.

Re:Bye bye Internet

[rubycodez]

No, government is in the pockets of privileged dynastic families. Your children, if elected to federal government, will be in their pockets too. Sending USB disk at the speed of cargo is not an internet any more than writing letter to Aunt Tilly back east a century ago.

Now this just might....

[bobbied]

THIS might kill Java (tm).

Oracle is Blocking Downloads to Russian IP addresses? Is there anybody who thinks this will in anyway help?

Re:Now this just might....

[Z00L00K]

And the countermeasure is - block access to Russian Porn?

Re:Now this just might....

[bobbied]

And the countermeasure is - block access to Russian Porn?

That vile Putin fella... Doesn't he know he's going to be savaged on Slashdot for doing that?

Re:Now this just might....

[bill_mcgonigle]

Oracle is Blocking Downloads to Russian IP addresses? Is there anybody who thinks this will in anyway help?

Some idiots at the State Department, apparently. As much as Oracle will do whatever they're told to keep the gravy train rolling, I doubt /they/ think it's a sensible idea.

Re:Now this just might....

[aix tom]

Well, it might speed up the "Russian Coffee" fork of Java. Like sunshine mixed with happiness.

And when I say sunshine I mean coffee.
And when I say happiness, I mean vodka

Re:Now this just might....

[w_dragon]

Perhaps they are exploiting security holes in current versions of Java that are due to be patched soon.

Turkey?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure the US has sanctions on Turkey?

Re:Turkey?

[i kan reed]

Speaking having only emerged from ignorance about it myself on internet search ago, there were some sanctions on Turkish groups, which is a bit like an embargo on Turkey itself.

Re:Turkey?

[compro01]

Are you sure the US has sanctions on Turkey?

Had, yes. The USA had an arms embargo and miscellaneous other sanctions against Turkey from 1974 to 1980-ish, as a result of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Jaysyn]

What Snowden has done was get his passport revoked by the US state department, but hey, let's not let facts get in the way of your stupid fucking comparison.

Re:What. The. Fuck.

[Jeremy Erwin]

Guess the poor guy didn't know about having to send his bribes in to stay in the Great Leader's good graces.

That would be how it works in Russia, but in the United States, polluters can't (and shouldn't be able to) bribe themselves out of jail.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[bill_mcgonigle]

what Snowden has done is pretty much as if

Your spy bosses should fire you for being incompetent at online propaganda. Did you sleep through the training classes?

Two paygrade reductions would be the most kind you should expect.

If you're the leader of Russia...

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

...then access to the Internet no longer looks like "free speech" or an economic stimulant. It now simply looks like foreign surveillance of my citizens, who are ignorant to how they're being harvested and used for the interest of external powers. If life were a game of Civ, and I was playing as Russia, I'd cut off the Internet too.

Re:If you're the leader of Russia...

[Yunzil]

So you're saying Russia is doing this out of concern for the privacy of their beloved citizens? Would you be interested in a beautiful antique bridge in Brooklyn I have for sale?

Re:If you're the leader of Russia...

[shutdown -p now]

First and foremost, they are concerned about their citizens saying things that might upset some other citizens, leading to a domestic disturbance akin to what happened in Ukraine.

Re:emargo on java?

[eladts]

wtf is the point?

Improved security?

In Soviet Russia

[dumuzi]

The internet browses you.

You know what? Screw them.

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll do the world a favour once Russia realizes they're the fucking third world - they're not a peer, they're not a competitor, they're a backward relic from a bygone era. The US, EU, and China represent the real powers in the globe, with a strong first-world supporting cast of Japan and other countries; a strong second-world with a developing Brazil, India and the Asia Tigers; finally you have those which time is slowly forgetting. Russia clearly fits in to a clearly defined role.

As reported to European media, their population loves the actions their leaders are undertaking to "stick it to the west"; as far as we should be concerned, they can sleep in the bed that Vladimir makes.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Cardoor]

hey, go easy on him. when you get past the phony unemployment numbers, honest work is hard to get.. and being an online shill CAN pay. of course, you're right - that's still no excuse for not paying attention in training.

There's no crackdown on WiFi

[Cyberax]

There's no crackdown on WiFi. The quoted rule only applies to publicly-owned free WiFi hotspots: http://slon.ru/fast/russia/pra...

Re:Not a law

[EEPROMS]

I hear Putin is about to decree that his political party is going to be renamed "the Nationalist Socialist party" (go look it up if you don't know who they are).

No java in Russia?

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Those luck bastards!

If we wanted to punish them, we'd make JAVA usage manditory. JAVA Desktops for everyone! JAVA ME phones only! and Java Jackpot. Who the hell knows what the point of Jackpot was, but starting now every Mother and child in Russia must figure it out, and use it!

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

yeah...and Snowden couldn't get a fair trial here...so he'd do that why?

Slon.Ru, great unbiased source

[Anonymous Coward]

When supporting documents are churned by Putin's propaganda producing press, Russia can do no wrong.

Embargo emshmargo

[mendax]

It would be interesting if this "embargo" lasts any length of time. Given the importance of Java in today's IT world, it would be interesting if our colleagues in St. Petersburg would produce another clean-room implementation of Java. But it'll never happen. All trade embargoes are leaky. Consider, for example, Kim Jong-il, the North Korean un-leader, and the iMac on his desk. That certainly wasn't bought at the local Pyongyang Apple store

Re:Embargo emshmargo

[nurb432]

why bother with "clean room"? the source is out there, and i doubt they care about US IP rights....

Whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why anyone is surprised that Putin and company act like dictatorial thugs. Their nation is imploding and they need to bring out the rod to keep control.
Russia is going through the tyranny playbook chapter by chapter. Demonization and scapegoating of minorities, directly state controlled media spewing nationalistic propaganda, massive corruption and crony control of all major industries, suppression and murderer of political opponents. The list goes on. You name it, they do it. Anything not on the list will happen soon. Things will get worse before they get better.

This is now getting to be an old story in Russia. Something makes me wonder if their culture yearns to be under the boot of monsters and tyrants, because it's been that way for the past few hundred years.

And for the tired, trite "America does it too" blowhards that are already typing up their scathing reply:

Fuck you. Yes. Fuck you, how you think, how you act, what you believe. Fuck everything about you. YOU are the problem. America isn't perfect but your deaf, self serving, wildly out of scale comparisons are poisoning the debate and will frankly will be the end of us all. And not just with Russia. With everything. The Republican party is an out of control monster (Full stop. End of story. No debate. You are a child that does not deserve to participate in adult conversation) and you show up with your limp wristed cynical "Dems do it to so nothing matters!" bullshit and nothing gets done. Fuck you again, for good measure.

Re:Whatever

[bobbied]

I don't know why anyone is surprised that Putin and company act like dictatorial thugs. Their nation is imploding and they need to bring out the rod to keep control. Russia is going through the tyranny playbook chapter by chapter. Demonization and scapegoating of minorities, directly state controlled media spewing nationalistic propaganda, massive corruption and crony control of all major industries, suppression and murderer of political opponents. The list goes on. You name it, they do it. Anything not on the list will happen soon. Things will get worse before they get better.

This is now getting to be an old story in Russia. Something makes me wonder if their culture yearns to be under the boot of monsters and tyrants, because it's been that way for the past few hundred years.

And for the tired, trite "America does it too" blowhards that are already typing up their scathing reply:

Except for that last rant and one small detail, I agree with you. This was my impression of what Putin is doing. He's prepping for conflict, internal and external and following the well worn paths of world history in general and Russian history in particular. We are going to all look back on the Olympic opening "show" of Putin's and see the story line play out yet again.

The small detail has to do with how long this has been going on. I think we can safely say it's been thousands of years that the same broken record has played and replayed about every 100-200 years. Ending every time in a bloody rebellion where the innocent pay.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, while those who do, are doomed to helplessly watch while those who don't repeat it.

Re:Whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a propoganda technique that is so old it's practically a tradition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Any time Russia wants to do something bad without being seen as evil, the astroturf army will start posting comments about how everybody else is evil too, trying to deflect attention.

Re:Whatever

[shutdown -p now]

If there's nothing special about US, then why does Russian TV news, and most of Russian patriotic bloggers, blame it for everything that befell them?

Re:Whatever

[Xest]

Wow I knew Russia was shit but I had no idea that it was so shit that it didn't even invent it's own country and had to rely on the Ukraine to do that.

But wait, if Russia was born in the Ukraine, then shouldn't the Ukrainians be ruling you guys rather than vice versa? Perhaps you should hand your country back to them if it's theirs.

I don't really understand what type of warped mentality your grand dictator Vladolf Putler has bred into you to think that it's okay for you to tell the US and other countries to keep out of your business, but not okay for others to tell you to keep the fuck out of the Ukraine, but I have to ask, do you really not see the irony in that?

P.S. I just turned on Russia Today and the Keiser report was on and they were ranting about the US for blaming everything, if you don't care about the US why is the US the only thing your state sponsored propaganda channel rants on about?

Hackers

[DarthVain]

Or the fact that it seems most hackers come from Russia. Having to prove identity before accessing the network, would certainly throw a wrench into the Russian hacking game. Sure the hackers will try to find a way around it (and likely will), but it will make it harder.

The fact the one of the largest breaches apparently happened just this week involving apparently Russian hackers again, makes me wonder how biased this article is. It was the first thing I thought of, was government trying to fight illegal hacking activity domestically that has been plaguing the world internationally, and is something they might do to actually improve international relations as it can be seen that they are taking pretty large measures to crack down on the Russian hacking activity. I mean the first thing about stopping hacking is to remove the anonymity or at least reduce or make it more difficult to maintain as it is the hackers best defense.

Re:Hackers

[bobbied]

Hate to break it to you, this isn't about hackers, it's about spying, political, commercial and military. Putin is clearly trying to reign in control of the internet and what his people can see. Read the back story and what Putin actually SAYS he's doing this for... "the laws are needed to fight "extremism" and "terrorism." which follows his claim that the internet is a CIA tool to distribute propaganda.

This is Putin preparing for conflict with the west, if not an all out war.

America and Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

There are those who have tread under-foot the soft soil of another world.

There are those who could have done so but chose not.

What. The. Fuck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Guy poisons people and goes to prison, what an injustice.

Re: what Snowden has done is like...

[Type44Q]

"Those who can, do. Those who can't... beg for change, suck dick for crack or are paid shills for Fascists or Big Pharma." :)

In Canada

[presidenteloco]

where we still have some freedom, Putin is a hacked up, soggy, cheese-curd potato.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[zlives]

he would get a fair trial, just not fair judgement or fair punishment.

Re:Not a law

[bobbied]

It's not even a law, but an executive decree.

You mean that they have pens and phones in Russia too?

Re:emargo on java?

[bobbied]

wtf is the point?

They will have to drink TEA to stay awake now.... It's evil genius!

Cockyfight

[Tablizer]

Ellison and Putin, two peas in a pod.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

actually, no he wouldn't get a fair trial. He's not allowed to present much of what would be his case. Motive is a perfectly reasonable thing to enter into the record. Except he won't be allowed to do so. Even Daniel Ellsberg of the Pentagon Papers thinks so.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

He's only in Russia BECAUSE of the US. He didn't choose to stay there. Restore his passport and he'll quite happily leave Russia.

And he's not 'lending aid' to any foreign governments. Nobody has any proof of that. Which also supports his case that he didn't do this for 'espionage' or to 'harm' the US. The US Government is already harming itself, he just told us about it.

Re:emargo on java?

[rubycodez]

what the hell is the point of blocking a few ip address and imagining one is blocking downloading of java? anyone with half a brain in russia can get any version of java JDK or JRE put out in the last ten years.

Re:You know what? Screw them.

[Tailhook]

their population loves the actions their leaders

There you go. Mod the parent up.

The parent perhaps goes too far in dismissing Russia's standing in the world since '91; there has been a huge flow of capital from the West into Russia to fund heavy industry beyond the reach of Western regulatory burdens and this has stimulated rapid economic growth and a resurgence in Russian military capability, including new design ICBM deployments.

But the parent is absolutely correct about the Russian people and the leaders they empower. Russians are once again indulging a cult of personality in Putin. I know there are many Russians in IT and geekery that will say I'm all wrong because that's not what they would have, but the fact is that the majority of Russians are thrilled by their bare chested father figure, sop up every morsel of the propaganda they're being fed and have kept him in power long enough to cement his place as Russia's latest autocrat.

Russia; publicly cultivate your masculinity and say bad things about America and you too can install yourself for life.

Re:You know what? Screw them.

[quantaman]

It'll do the world a favour once Russia realizes they're the fucking third world - they're not a peer, they're not a competitor, they're a backward relic from a bygone era. The US, EU, and China represent the real powers in the globe, with a strong first-world supporting cast of Japan and other countries; a strong second-world with a developing Brazil, India and the Asia Tigers; finally you have those which time is slowly forgetting. Russia clearly fits in to a clearly defined role.

As reported to European media, their population loves the actions their leaders are undertaking to "stick it to the west"; as far as we should be concerned, they can sleep in the bed that Vladimir makes.

I've lost some sympathy for the Russian people due to their general backing of Putin's policies.

However, I'm extremely worried for the nations bordering Russia who are full of nice people who would rather not be invaded and turned into the USSR 2.0.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[umghhh]

Ever since Putin shot down this plane over Ukraine we do not have any doubts anymore about anything US does: free trade agreement that is so good that it has to be kept secret from the people it concerns, spying everybody, supporting evil regimes )hey they are our bastards), extrajudicial killings, extended interrogation techniques etc. all this forgotten because of Putin. We even got humanitarian bombing in Iraq which if the place was not messed up by US few years back would be the first ethical thing in years that US military actually did.

Come to think of it Putin is the best thing that happened to US for quite some time. And the best thing is that the French and Germans cannot do new business with Ruskis. I still do not understand why this all is happening - is this a PR stunt by NSA or some other deepshits or what exactly that is done for?

Re:What. The. Fuck.

[bobbied]

You fail to bring into account that said corporation is owned by PEOPLE who did loose money when the fines where paid and damages made whole. You also fail to mention that willful breaking of laws by an employee of a company puts his butt in jail, even if it's the CEO.

The guilty get punished, even if you don't want to admit it.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[NicBenjamin]

"Only in Russia BECAUSE of the US?" Like almost every statement that starts with the word "only," that is incorrect.

Russia is a sovereign state. That means it has the exact same legal powers as the US. It can issue passports. It can inform the chick at the ticket counter that she really shouldn't notice when this one white dude with a buzz cut boards the plane. It has a sizable air force. If Vladimir Putin was in any way a friend to Ed Snowden, Ed Snowden would not be totally fucked in Moscow. He'd be chilling on the beach in Venezuela, or mountain-climbing in Peru. It wouldn't even cost Vlad money. He could simply instruct his minions to accept whatever BS paperwork an anti-American Honorary Consul in Vladivostok cooked up. Ed gets on the plane to Cuba, nobody notices until it's halfway to Cube, by which time they can't do any shenanigans.

Prior to this Ukraine crisis there was actually a weird symbioses between Putin and Obama. They had their spheres of influence. Syria starts messing with the balance of power in the Mideast, that messes up the spheres, so Vlad lets Obama force the Syrians to destroy their chemical weapons. Afghanistan is the US sphere, so Putin doesn't interfere with out supplies to the country. The rest of Central Asia is Russian, so we don't support coups when they kick us out. Vlad could an anti-American mascot, Obama needs to totally discredit Ed Snowden; therefore Hillary pulls his passport just when doing so will give Put5in the opportunity to turn him into a pet.

Good?

[Howitzer86]

Putin has said he thinks the Internet is a CIA project. Though he's wrong (it's a DOD project), he's also a man who's all about that spy stuff. He probably sincerely believes it's in his countries best interest to suppress internet usage, perhaps replacing it with one of their own design.

Considering a Russian gang has stolen over 1 billion user names and password hashes from hundreds of thousands of websites, and considering all such problems of that kind that the world has with Russia hackers, I think the best outcome for the world would be for that country to lose internet access. Their people will suffer as a result, but the more people stand to benefit from their potential isolation.

It's possible that of all possible outcomes, this is the best one.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

seriously do read up on how things happened. Snowden got stuck in the Moscow airport expressly because his passport was no longer valid. Countries don't just let people in on flights without one of those. He had already booked flights to Central America but couldn't board the flights without a valid passport.

And most countries check you BEFORE you board so that you aren't able to actually get there without it.

So yes, the State Dept revoking Snowden's passport is exactly why he was living in the Moscow airport for a short time until Russia decided to grant him asylum; I'd guess for no small reason that Russia is downright reveling in sticking it to the US by doing so.

But if you think countries go around issuing their national passports to just anybody...I'm not sure we can have rational discussion.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Obfuscant]

So yes, the State Dept revoking Snowden's passport is exactly why he was living in the Moscow airport for a short time

The OP wasn't talking about the short term. He was talking about what is happening now. And he's right. If Putin wanted Snowden to have a Russian passport, he'd have one. It isn't ONLY because the US revoked Snowden's passport that he's stuck, the fact that Russia hasn't issued him one is also a factor.

But if you think countries go around issuing their national passports to just anybody...I'm not sure we can have rational discussion.

If you think that the political football named "Ed Snowden" is "just anybody" and don't think that he'd have a Russian passport about two minutes after Putin said "jump" to his minions, then I'm sure we cannot have a rational discussion.

How is this a bad thing?

[TiggertheMad]

Russia is banning java....How can I get a visa to move to Russia?

Re:How is this a bad thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the drill. Get hired by NSA as a contractor, download JIGAbytes of documents, etc...

Re:Not a law

[theshowmecanuck]

And when GW Bush did it he was a patriot, right? Fuck off asshole. So far Obama is on track to less use of executive orders than Bush. And here's your citation, so bite me. Fuck I'm tired of these Carl Rove say it enough and it must then be true assholes. GW Bush was an idiot. But quite frankly I'm less than impressed with Obama too, other than his Obamacare. And the Democrats in Congress fucked that up royally when they had the majority in his first term. Tea party clowns and that cunt Pelosi and her gang are both shite eating fucktards too. It's no wonder the USA is in tough these days.

But why even bitch about America? This post was about Putin and Russia.

Re:You know what? Screw them.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that parent might be going too far in dismissing Russia's standing today, but I think you're both somewhat incorrect on the mood of the Russian people. In actuality, there is a lot of disgust and guilt amongst Russians over Ukraine, but a lot of this is suppressed by the need to show support for the government and the reactionaries who do in fact agree with the government. Think about those with cooler heads just after 9/11 who wanted more forethought and calm. The more they spoke out, the more they were branded as sympathizers of the enemy. There is a genuine distrust of the west in Russia. It's not entirely unearned however. See the west through the eyes of a Soviet Russian or a new Russian. Entities like NATO, CIA, and SIS (MI-6) are scary things in much the same way as Warsaw Pact and KGB were to the west. The difference: NATO, CIA, and SIS exist today. NATO has been taking former Warsaw Pact nations as members. This puts the NATO border much closer to Russia. NATO exists for the purpose of fighting Russia (albeit the Soviet era Russia). Russia is not the EU, yet former Soviet satellites and eastern Bloc nations are. This isolates Russia every more. There is an additional language barrier in the cyrillic alphabet without the advantage of western exposure to latinization as there is in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavian nations. There have been several moves by the US in European affairs that have marginalized Russia. All these things are real. But then you have the perceived stuff in the media. Putin has used the media very well to sell the idea that westerners truly hate Russians. It ranges from the same kind of "They hate us for our freedom" simplistic statements that Americans use to explain their enemies to more extreme ideas that are similar anti-semitism.

It's really unfair to blame Russian people as many do (not saying you have). Russians do not have the access that westerners have. The Russians I know, none of whom are techies, just ordinary wage slaves - they can only whisper about how upset they are at the way things have gotten. Americans have to stop assuming that Russians can just pick up a Don't Tread on Me sign and an AR-15 and march through the streets or get an opposition cable news channel with some pundit who will attack the president.It really is a different world.

This article is a bullshit

[kaygorodov]

There is no embargo on Java and similiar technologies. Also the "author" haven't read the Law he mentioned. There's no crackdown on Wi-fi. This is all just about informatioal war that is going on in press and on "freedom space" of internet where every ignoramus person can write an article.

Write once

[thsths]

run anywhere.

Unless you have the wrong Java version. Or it turns out to be not quite as portable as promised. Or there is an issue with security settings. Or you are in Russia.

Re: You know what? Screw them.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a long copout. Of course you can't march in the streets, until you Dom. Newsflash: rights weren't given to USA and EU citizens. Bloody revolutions were fought. Russia people chose, and still choose, a different way. Stop assuming they're (big plural) not responsible for their condition. Sure, Joseph Smithcovich isn't responsible personally. But it is the responsibility of the Russian people to change their own government or, while embracing it, becoming members of a pariah failed state.

Re:What. The. Fuck.

[shutdown -p now]

Yeah, in US you have to pay well in advance, but on the flip side you don't get to go into jail in the first place. I believe it's called "lobbying".

Re:You know what? Screw them.

[shutdown -p now]

Not all Russians support Putin, you know. The majority do, but there's always the minority - and they are, in fact, the first ones do be targeted; nations bordering Russia would only be second.

"Fifth column" and "national traitor" are already the words of the day ever since Putin used them in his presidential address.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[AchilleTalon]

He would get a fair trial. The problem is he would not be able to present a credible defence for the information he has taken and leaked which is not related to the point he says he wants to make about government's agency violating the Constitution. He has taken unrelated information to this. Not all the information he has taken has been leaked to the public, but it has to private parties. He would never been set free for having taken and leaked to private parties this unrelated information.

WTF ?

[presidenteloco]

my grammar can beat up your grammar

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[NicBenjamin]

You're missing the forest for the trees.

Yeah on the exact day Hillary screwed up his passport it was solely her fault.

But every day since that day Putin has had the ability to fix the problem. He is a sovereign Head of State. He can issue whatever travel documents he wants.' He has a large supply of actual client states (ie; Transdniester, Abkhazia) who would happily do the job if they thought it would make Vlad happy. He's got a larger group of friends that all have a somewhat anti-US agenda. Correa's Ambassador actually issued travel documents before revoking them. If the State Department had the power to influence Correa's choice of travel documents, it wouldn't need to do so because Correa would not be President.

If Putin wanted Ed Snowden to live a good life Ed Snowden would be in Ecuador today.

Wow.

[Gentvide]

I am a former American citizen who married a Russian woman, had children, and relocated permanently to St. Petersburg, Russia. This is absolutely not the "third world", in the sense that I've always understood it. I have much better internet, cable TV, mobile phone, and house phone service here than I could ever hope for in the States. That's not true in the countryside though. A lot of things don't meet Western standards generally, but a lot of it is the relatively short time period the country has had to rebuild and has done so almost without foreign help (as opposed to East Germany as an example). New construction is to Western standards - houses, roads, etc.; salaries are comparatively lower for similar work, but they have steadily risen and most people can afford some luxuries in their life like iphones. And by "most people" I mean full-time cashiers at a grocery store, normal people. I think you would be shocked at the disconnection between the coverage of English-language Western media on the situation and local (Russian) media and opinions, and even non-English European coverage, like Der Zeit. The problem is partly that the American media think Pravda is still the authoritative voice of the Russian government, so they don't bother translating anything else - but Pravda was privated after the fall and today is sort of a mix between The Sun and The Onion, not official position. And wifi worked at Appleby's today - the restaurant was really busy, the weather is beautiful and the town is full of tourists.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Fjandr]

No, because likely the judge would disallow any defense he might present. It happens all the time in the US where defendants are not allowed to present a defense. Marijuana charges are one such. You are not allowed to present evidence that it provides an actual medical benefit, nor are you allowed to present evidence of a sickness which a rational person might connect with marijuana as a logical medical treatment.

That's just one example of a crime where a reasonable defense is routinely declared off-limits by judges. There are many more. Snowden's case is another one.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Fjandr]

He would get a fair trial. The problem is he would not be able to present a credible defence [...]

You say he would get a fair trial, and then immediately follow that with the very reason his trial would not be fair...

Some history lesson from AC

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no threat to border nations. Georgia, for example, attacked their provinces, and Russia used the fact that in USSR these provinces were not part of Georgia.
Ukraine started to attack Russian-oriented population and Russia used the fact that in USSR (and before that) Crimea was part of Russia. Otherwise not only the East of Ukraine, but also the Crimea would burn now.

Who else? Finland. A former province of Russia. Member of EU and important trade partner of Russia. They had war in 1939, when USSR demanded exchange of territories - they wanted to have more land between the border and St.Petersburn (then Leningrad). Finland refused, and this ended up with terrible war. Russians got what they wanted, and paid a price that allowed them to withstand Hitler's attack. Later, Spanish friends of Hitler blockaded St. Petersburg causing hundreds of thousands of people to die of starvation, but they would have a better chance if Russians wouldn't have that war before.
Finland still remembers that war and some unstable Finnish boneheads still hate Russia for it. However, there are no tensions between two countries and I can't imagine them to have a military conflict.

Unlike the Norway, which is more aggressive towards Russia, due to economical tensions. They had no military conflicts before and I don't think they might.

Sweden. They had around 10 wars with Russia, and lost most of them. These wars gave Russia access to the Baltic Sea, territories of current Estonia and Latvia. A military conflict with Sweden? Good joke. Neither nation has anything against each other, and Russians have no claims for any part of the territory of Sweden.

Estonia and Latvia. These two didn't exist before the USSR. In fact, Latvia was part of Russia for around 300 years. They never had nobility (dukes, princes, whatever) and even their language was first formalized in 19th century by Latvians who studied in St. Petersburg. Without Latvians, communism wouldn't win in Russia after the Great War, as Latvians were the main power of Lenin. So, that was a genuine part of Russian Empire and this worries Latvians. They have a territory dispute with Russia over the territory that was never part of Latvia but was promised by Lenin. If Latvia wouldn't be part of EU and Nato, they, IMHO, could be in some danger, especially taking into account that large part of population (more than half in capital) are ethnic Russians.

Lithuania and Poland - these were one country once, a strong enemy of Russia. They even burned down Moscow once. They helped Mongols to bully Russia until 1480. Ukraine didn't exist at that time, as a country. Russians and Polish have interesting relations - Polish are whining about bad Russians and Russians are picking on Polish. They don't trust each other. But there is no way in hell Russia would attack Poland, no matter what they did to each other in the past (and these were nastiest things, with Polish killing whole cities during Russian-Swedish wars, or Russians shooting thousands of Polish soldiers before the WW2 (for Russia it started in 1941, when Hitler betrayed them).
Both Poland and Lithuania eventually became parts of Russian Empire, but were not converted - there are nearly no Russians, they are catholic, and there is no Russian influence. Poland and Lithuania are the most annoying neighbors of Russia, as they are whining all the time about everything and spill poison in every word they are saying officially about Russia. That's a problem for EU, as Germany and France, main players of EU, are way more friendly towards Russia.

Ukraine... It wasn't a country for a long time. Kiev, their capital, is the first capital of Rus(sia). Ukraine consists of East and West, where West is the part that was Poland before, and East - that was Russian Empire. East and West have different opinions about many things, and supported different sides in WW2 - West was for Hitler and East was for Stalin. Russians generally don't like Ukrainians, although the ethic bond between two nations is very strong.

Re:Some history lesson from AC

[quantaman]

There is no threat to border nations. Georgia, for example, attacked their provinces, and Russia used the fact that in USSR these provinces were not part of Georgia.

So no threat to border nations. As long as Russia doesn't decide their nation isn't valid.

Ukraine started to attack Russian-oriented population

No they didn't.

and Russia used the fact that in USSR (and before that) Crimea was part of Russia.

No it wasn't. Crimea was part of Ukraine in the USSR (though it was part of Russia before that).

Who else? Finland. A former province of Russia. Member of EU and important trade partner of Russia. They had war in 1939, when USSR demanded exchange of territories - they wanted to have more land between the border and St.Petersburn (then Leningrad). Finland refused, and this ended up with terrible war. Russians got what they wanted, and paid a price that allowed them to withstand Hitler's attack. Later, Spanish friends of Hitler blockaded St. Petersburg causing hundreds of thousands of people to die of starvation, but they would have a better chance if Russians wouldn't have that war before.
Finland still remembers that war and some unstable Finnish boneheads still hate Russia for it. However, there are no tensions between two countries and I can't imagine them to have a military conflict.

So the USSR wanted some of Finland and Finland refused so the USSR attacked them.

And somehow you think Finland is the one to blame?

These two didn't exist before the USSR. In fact, Latvia was part of Russia for around 300 years. They never had nobility (dukes, princes, whatever) and even their language was first formalized in 19th century by Latvians who studied in St. Petersburg. Without Latvians, communism wouldn't win in Russia after the Great War, as Latvians were the main power of Lenin. So, that was a genuine part of Russian Empire and this worries Latvians. They have a territory dispute with Russia over the territory that was never part of Latvia but was promised by Lenin. If Latvia wouldn't be part of EU and Nato, they, IMHO, could be in some danger, especially taking into account that large part of population (more than half in capital) are ethnic Russians.

So another pair of border nations Russia doesn't really recognize and would like to invade but currently can't do so safely.

They had so good relations with Russia that eventually became part of it. And yes, I am talking about Tartars.

The Tartars who got expelled from Crimea by the USSR, came back when it was part of Ukraine, and are overwhelmingly against this recent annexation.

Well, speaking about China - they have the main quality of an ally for Russia - they don't betray their allies. Neither does Russia.

Except of course Ukraine.

Who else? Canada. Is hostile towards Russia because of Arctics. Both countries want control over it. Everything else are merely excuses.

Canada has bigger territorial disputes over the Arctic with Denmark and the US. No hostility there. And Canada isn't hostile to Russia, we just strongly disapprove of fascism and wars of expansion.

Georgia. Home of Joseph Stalin. Ex ally and friend of Russia. Neither Russians or Georgians are hostile towards each other, but Russians deeply disapprove the political decisions of Georgia. Current leaders of Georgia are way more adequate than their predecessor, but they can't undo the damage (i.e. return two republics to Georgia), as Russia recognized the independence of both South Osetia and Abkhazia.

Russia assisted the independence of South Osetia and Abkhazia, along with Transnistria in Moldova.

You spent a lot of time pointing out Russia wasn't a threat to nations it had good relations with and no claims to. Well of course they aren't a current threat to those nations. But the moment Russia's mood changes, or they feel they're owned some of the land, you've demonstrated that Russia will simply try to take it. By your own story Russia is a massive threat to bordering nations.

Re:Some history lesson from AC

[fraxinus-tree]

Born in the USSR or Russia, aren't you? Keep in mind that not everyone learned the same history lessons at school.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

The OP blatantly said that it was false that Snowden was in Russia because of the US. Yet you agree with me that, yes the reason Snowden got stuck in Russia was the US's fault.

COULD Russia issue him a passport? I find that perhaps possible but very unlikely, but that's sort of irrelevant to how and why he got stuck there - which you agree was the US's doing.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[pixelpusher220]

I'm not missing the forest through the trees. He is in Russia specifically because the US revoked his passport. The OP called that blatantly false and you agree that it's blatantly true.

Could Russia do something to 'unstick' the situation? Sure, but that's entirely a different. The current situation was created because of the US; that Russia could do something to resolve it isn't Snowden's fault nor does it change the fact that the US started this.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Obfuscant]

The OP blatantly said that it was false that Snowden was in Russia because of the US.

No, he said it was false that he's in Russia ONLY because of the US. If you leave out critical words you change the meaning of sentences. The OP, in fact, emphasized the problem with the word "only", so it was pretty hard to miss it. Congratulations, you did.

He was temporarily stuck at the airport because the US revoked his passport, that is true. But he is still in Russia and there has been plenty of time for Russia to issue him a Russian passport to allow him to continue his travels. The reason he is not where he wanted to go is not because of the US at this point, it is because of Russia.

Your problem is like the guy who refuses to drive to work today because three years ago he had a flat tire. If only his tire wasn't flat, he'd be able to use his car now.

COULD Russia issue him a passport? I find that perhaps possible but very unlikely,

Well, you see, it is impossible to have a discussion when one side refuses to admit that Russia does what Putin wants.

but that's sort of irrelevant to how and why he got stuck there

The statement was about why he IS there, a current tense verb. He IS there not through the sole act of the US, Russia is playing a leading part in not letting him leave.

which you agree was the US's doing.

And "was" is a past tense verb. "Is" and "was" are not the same. One of these things is not like the other.

Re:what Snowden has done is like...

[Obfuscant]

He is in Russia specifically because the US revoked his passport.

No, he IS in Russia because the Russians won't issue him a passport so he can leave. That would be an easy solution to his problem. Why you don't see this and assign blame for this not happening to the correct party is a mystery.

Could Russia do something to 'unstick' the situation? Sure, but that's entirely a different.

No, that's exactly the point. You're talking about the short term, past-tense problem of him being stuck in an airport because the US revoked the passport of someone they considered to be a traitor who was fleeing prosecution. The current situation could be easily "solved" by Russia issuing him a passport, the failure of which to happen is not the fault of the US in any way.