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Tesla Removes Mileage Limits On Drive Unit Warranty Program

Posted by timothy on from the 90-percent-of-the-cost-of-my-entire-car dept.

Ars Technica reports that Elon Musk today wrote that Tesla will remove mileage limits on its warranty policy for all Tesla Model S drive units. The warranty, which will still span eight years, won't have a cap on the number of owners for each vehicle. People who purchased Teslas before today were told that the warranty period for the drive unit expired after eight years or once the car logged over 125,000 miles. The revised warranty applies to new vehicles and Model S cars that are already on the road. The article mentions that quite a few Tesla owners have had to have their drive units replaced; out of warranty, that runs about $15,000. Musk's announcement acknowledges that the change may cost the company some money, but says he's "confident it will work out well in the long run."

118 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. So there is a problem... by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So there is a problem and they are avoiding recall?

    1. Re:So there is a problem... by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful
      No sir.

      There's a problem and they're handling it immediately and responsibly,

      instead of pursuing the GM/Toyota strategy of ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:So there is a problem... by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Things failing after the warranty period is not a problem, as that is expected end of life time.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:So there is a problem... by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

      $15000 is within realm of new "crate engine", needing that at only 125,000 miles would be considered a serious quality defect with a traditional auto. If memory serves me right, most recent example was BMW nikasil engine block issue.

    4. Re:So there is a problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No sir.

      There's a problem and they're handling it immediately and responsibly,

      instead of pursuing the GM/Toyota strategy of ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

      GM hardly ignored their problem - they actively tried to cover it up, probably all the way back to 2005 or 2006, maybe even with government help, especially once they became Government Motors:

      GM Misses Red Flags From Rental Car Canaries on Crashes

    5. Re:So there is a problem... by Kjella · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If it came through the warranty period alright, I don't see that there's any problem. Tesla has probably just figured out this hits relatively few but heavy users and ambassadors who'll be happy to get a new battery instead of being hit with a $15,000 bill and continue driving sales. After all, 125,000/8 = 15,625 miles is more than the average US driver goes per year (13,476 miles) and Teslas have probably not been bought by those making regular long hauls.

      It does create a rather perverse incentive to drive your Tesla to battery failure before the warranty is up though - say a coast-to-coast supercharger road trip or three on free electricity. I don't know if they'll replace it with a brand new or a refurb but either way it'll be worth more than with a 7.5 year old battery. As long as they're in massive growth sales 5-8 years ago are so much lower that it might not matter though, right now it's all about expansion.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:So there is a problem... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tesla is sending a message.

      Their message is, "we are not GM, we care about the customer instead of trying to ignore and rip off the customer"

      If a company stands behind their product they offer a very long life warranty. If they know their product is crap, you get a short warranty. There is a reason that GM cars come with 36,000 mile 3 year warranties..

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:So there is a problem... by Sorny · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tesla's Warranty is a bit better than what GM offers, true. However, it is not hugely better excepting the unlimited mileage for the powertrain, and 8 year battery warranty. That said, I've got some concerns with Tesla's battery warranty being that I live in MN.

      "In addition, damage resulting from the following activities are not covered under this Battery
      Limited Warranty:
      â Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140ÂF (60ÂC) or below -22ÂF (-30ÂC) for
      more than 24 hours at a time;"

      That bit scares me. -22 F temps are normal for us in the winter, and I don't heat my garage. Thus, the car would be exposed to such temps for over 24hrs at least once a year. Kind of puts a crimp in my plans to buy a Tesla 3 when it comes out; I can already make the justification to buy a model S based on my driving needs, but I refuse to pay more in car payments than my mortgage.

      From Chevy's website:

      Warranty Coverage
      Bumper-to-Bumper (including tires):
      Coverage is for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
      Powertrain:
      Coverage is for the first 5 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
      Sheet Metal:
      Corrosion coverage is for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
      Rust-through coverage is for the first 6 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

      From Tesla:

      Subject to separate coverage for certain parts and the exclusions and limitations described in this
      New Vehicle Limited Warranty, the Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty covers the repair or
      replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts
      manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use for a period of 4 years or 50,000
      miles (80,000 km), whichever comes first.

      Supplemental Restraint System Limited Warranty
      Subject to the exclusions and limitations described in this New Vehicle Limited Warranty, the SRS
      Limited Warranty covers the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or
      workmanship of the vehicleâ(TM)s seat belts or air bag system manufactured or supplied by Tesla that
      occur under normal use for a period of 5 years or 60,000 miles (100,000 km), whichever comes
      first.

      --
      OSX pwns.
    8. Re:So there is a problem... by Ted+Cabeen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The $15k charge is a theoretical charge back-calculated from insurance settlements. It does not include any core rebate for returning the old drive train. Since no owner has owned the car for even the current 4 year warranty, we have no information on what Tesla would charge for a drive train replacement, swap or any other non-accident generated repair.

    9. Re:So there is a problem... by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How difficult and expensive would it be to put rudimentary heating in your garage for just those (hopefully not too many) days per year that this would be a problem?

      Here in eastern Washington the temperature rarely gets that low (maybe once per decade) but I do a lot of work in my garage, fortunately as it is attached I just ran a four inch branch off the central heating and opened it about an hour before I wanted to work. It wasn't toasty, but it was bearable and added almost nothing to my heating bill.

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    10. Re:So there is a problem... by Ted+Cabeen · · Score: 4, Informative

      The -22F is not a problem, as long as the car is plugged in when left for prolonged periods. At well above that temperature, the battery management system will kick in and heat the battery to keep it within safe temperatures. Now, technically, they could probably disclaim coverage for that, but it seems unlikely if the battery management system does what it's supposed to do.

    11. Re:So there is a problem... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      Assuming you have an insulated garage door, and an attached garage, it's likely your home will add 20-30 degrees to a -22F (outside) temperature environment in your garage. Homes leak a lot of heat, and all the walls/doors to your garage leak it into your garage. There is also no wind chill in your garage.

      I invite you to put a thermometer in your garage and track it. I don't think you will exceed the Tesla specifications unless you leave the garage door open 24x7x365.

      You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

      I have lived in houses that had neither of these features.

      Also, I think his point was that he doesn't want to pay $80K for a car and more problems to worry about than if he spent $30K.

    12. Re:So there is a problem... by beelsebob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really, in fact, 125,000 miles is a pretty long way after you'd expect to see major issues with most of the seals on the engine, and quite possibly complete failure on some cars.

    13. Re:So there is a problem... by Chuckstar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The point was that only the GM cars have the problem that heavy stuff attached to the key can turn your car off in the middle of driving down the road. It's especially a problem with rental cars, because they have heavy stuff attached to the keys as a matter of course.

    14. Re:So there is a problem... by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it sounds more like drive unit failures are happening more often than expected and are so expensive that it could cause them some serious bad press so they are eating the cost (which is likely actually a small fraction of what the out of warranty cost to the customer would be) of folding it into the warranty.

      Not that I'm ragging on Tesla or anything. I just think your analysis may be the reverse of the actual situation

    15. Re:So there is a problem... by beltsbear · · Score: 4, Funny

      Leave the Tesla plugged in, it will take care of itself.

    16. Re:So there is a problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then he shouldn't buy one. We're all agreed. For those of you in places where it gets below -22, and where you will consider buying an 80k car but not putting minor heat and an insulated door into your garage, best not to buy one. For the few remaining people where that doesn't apply, you can still consider getting a Tesla.

    17. Re:So there is a problem... by AaronW · · Score: 1

      Assuming that the car is plugged in to charge at night it will heat the battery to keep the temperature at an acceptable level.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    18. Re:So there is a problem... by Rei · · Score: 1

      You live somewhere where daily highs in your garage below -30C are "normal" (implying highs of -40 to -50 outside)? Where do you live, the freaking moon? And you'd store your car suchly without plugging it in?

      --
      Musk needs a safer hobby than Twitter. Fire juggling? Cage fighting? Solo hot air balloon trips?
    19. Re:So there is a problem... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Depending on the performance you are looking for, 1/4 mile is sufficient.

      Every American car I've owned, they've never made it to the end of the powertrain warranty before the transmission blew. Only 1 of the three was covered under warranty. The others were blamed on driver error or poor maintenance.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    20. Re:So there is a problem... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Tesla looked at it and said "the costs of extending the warranty are likely low because the problems are low, so we can extend the warranty and still hit our warranty budget". The added press was, of course, considered, but they have been more reliable than people expected.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    21. Re:So there is a problem... by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      That bit scares me. -22 F temps are normal for us in the winter, and I don't heat my garage.

      Odd, in Alaska, nearly everyone had a heated garage. Though the difference between a garage at 55 and 75 is about $1000 a month, so they aren't kept toasty warm, they will still get the car out of -22 every 10 hours on work days.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    22. Re:So there is a problem... by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

      I have lived in houses that had neither of these features.

      In Minnesota? Insulated garage doors is $10 of styrofoam. And I've seen lots of detached garages, in warmer climes. But in the cold areas, people don't like to have to run outside to get something from the garage. Everyone would insulate the garage walls as if it were a house wall, and the door would be insulated with PS foam at a minimum.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    23. Re:So there is a problem... by TWX · · Score: 1

      You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

      And you all are making the assumption that he even has a garage. Yes, it's uncommon, but possible, and it's also possible that the owner of such a car would want to be able to leave the car outside if needed, like if the garage were being used for a project for a few nights.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    24. Re:So there is a problem... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Interesting that your choice of car is entirely dependent in this case on a warranty.

      Warranties are great for covering manufacturing faults and shoddy products, that's about it. Based on what I'm hearing from Tesla they do not appear to be having much of an issue at all with their batteries. You certainly shouldn't expect a warranty to cover basic wear on the car, and a warranty to me shows only how much faith the manufacturer puts in their equipment.

      Example Hyundai had a horrendous shoddy reputation which they couldn't shake when they started building decent cars, so they offered 10 year warranties for a few years, blasting all the adverts to let people know they have faith that the cars are built properly. Now the warranties are back in line with industry standard and they are still the same decent cars.

      Given what is known about battery chemistry and temperatures, maybe it's not the warranty you should be worried about but rather heating the garage. It doesn't take much.

    25. Re:So there is a problem... by TWX · · Score: 1

      I see it as two parts, really...

      First part is that a car company has to satisfy the new-car buyer. That means the car must meet the needs of the first buyer and that the buyer be happy up to and including the end of their ownership in the car. Some new-car buyers will drive a car for a couple of years or through the end of payments and then sell, so those customers need the car to have strong resale value in the 2-7 year range.

      Other customers will drive a car until it's not economically viable to repair, and those customers want to get their purchase-price value out of the car, and basically want everything to wear out at the same time, so that it demonstrates that the car was well and truly done, not that one component failed leaving an otherwise good car ready for the scrapyard. I suspect that many Tesla buyers will be the latter, wanting the car to last a long time in a good state, without much regard to resale value.

      Second part is what a self-imposed quality initiative can do. Hyundai forced themselves to recognize a ten year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty with an inexpensive upgrade to bumper-to-bumper if memory serves, while their competitors were generally only offering three year, 36,000 mile warranties. This forced Hyundai to design and build better cars to keep the warranty costs from eating them alive, and combined with fairly low prices, convinced a lot of buyers, especially first-time-new-car buyers to take the risk even with a car that might need more service. In return they've brought their quality WAAAY up, and have shown trust to their customers to help ensure repeat business in the process.

      Tesla could well be trying this with the customers-of-means that might be considering their first luxurious car- demonstrate that the car costs very little to operate, demonstrate that it has all of the tech of the other entry-to-mid-level luxury cars, and has the warranty and lack of need for service to boot. If that car satisfies its buyers then they'll be much more likely to show brand loyalty down the road.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    26. Re:So there is a problem... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Actually, GM/Toyota waited till the body count was significant enough to consider; public record.

    27. Re:So there is a problem... by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      >You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

      Then he should buy one. If he can afford a $100k car, he can afford to build himself a new luxury house with an attached garage and insulated garage door, plus granite countertops, ethernet wiring, a hot tub, and a home theater room, and a few acres of land.

      If he can't afford to build or buy a house with an attached garage, then he's not in the market for a Tesla.

    28. Re:So there is a problem... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Assuming that the car is plugged in to charge at night it will heat the battery to keep the temperature at an acceptable level.

      I wonder what people with gasoline and diesel vehicles do? Lessee.........

      Why, they use engine block heaters.

      They use battery heaters.

      They have outlets on parking meters to plug these devices in.

      Heck, before the weather warmed up, I had block and battery heaters on my vehicles in Pennsylvania.

      I've heard that once upon a time they would start small fires under diesel tractors to wam them up to start, but can't confirm that

      Or, they'd just leave them running all the time.

      So please spare us the idea that the Tesla is a precious little snowflake that cannot handle the cold like those big tough Internal combustion engines. At upper Minnesota temps, all vehicles need some thermal considerations.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    29. Re:So there is a problem... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Interesting that your choice of car is entirely dependent in this case on a warranty.

      Only it isn't. Thes hoots simply hate the Tesla, and anything that is "bad" about it is simply grist for their mill when they shout The Tezla SUCKS and electic cars will never work!" in their little bubble.

      Yet they make complete fools of themselves.

      A Tesla catches fire - apparently no other car ever has

      Tesla batteries have considerations when temps drop well into the below 0 area - apparently internal combustion engines just start right up in that kind of cold. And on and on

      Even their reviewers have to cheat to make it look bad.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    30. Re:So there is a problem... by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

      You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

      And you all are making the assumption that he even has a garage

      Actually, in the comment that got this part going the author said

      -22 F temps are normal for us in the winter, and I don't heat my garage

      In MN the word "garage" has a rather specific meaning; a minimum of 4 walls (one of which has a door that a car can drive through) and a ceiling. Now, a garage in MN may - or may not - be heated or insulated depending on a wide variety of factors. Many are also attached to houses (or even tucked under houses) which generally makes them a bit less expensive to regulate temperature in.

      But nonetheless the poster did specifically mention having a garage.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    31. Re:So there is a problem... by dasunt · · Score: 1

      In Minnesota? Insulated garage doors is $10 of styrofoam. And I've seen lots of detached garages, in warmer climes. But in the cold areas, people don't like to have to run outside to get something from the garage. Everyone would insulate the garage walls as if it were a house wall, and the door would be insulated with PS foam at a minimum.

      Currently in Minnesota. My house has a detached garage, and the garage door is not insulated.

      Walking around my neighborhood, detached garages are the norm. Most appear to be uninsulated.

    32. Re:So there is a problem... by aviators99 · · Score: 1

      So there is a problem and they are avoiding recall?

      A problem doesn't have to be out of warranty to cause a recall. This move would not make a difference.

    33. Re:So there is a problem... by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      No, not really. In the UK at least, a car that's done over 100,000 miles is considered basically worthless. They sell for £3-500 each, because their engine and transmission is likely to be on its last legs.

    34. Re:So there is a problem... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Seriously. GM cars and trucks here in the states routinely approach 200k as do other manufacturers as well. Something is seriously wrong with the UK autos.

    35. Re:So there is a problem... by patniemeyer · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume there is a problem? It sounds to me like their analysis shows that the drive units are performing so well that they can offer a less conservative warranty now. The impact that Musk mentions is about increasing the cash they need to have on hand to cover warranties for something unexpected. None of this implies that there is a problem...

      BTW, this is the second time that Tesla has increased the warranty coverage on the vehicles after they've been sold - When was the last time you heard of an auto company doing that?

    36. Re:So there is a problem... by Teancum · · Score: 2

      That is relatively recent to have that happen though. Most cars in the 1970's and earlier would almost never make 100k miles, and the odometers never even counted up beyond 100k miles either. It was the Japanese manufacturers (Toyota in particular) that started to push the endurance limits of automobiles and the American manufacturers had to follow.

      In the semi-tractor market, those engines used to get only about 100k miles as well, but now it is pretty typical in the industry, with proper maintenance, to get the engines over 1 million miles before they need to be replaced. A truck that has gone a million miles likely needs to be replaced anyway.

    37. Re:So there is a problem... by Teancum · · Score: 1

      Most garages, even in Minnesota (I grew up in that state), likely have exposed studs on the inside and would be trivial to put in some simple insulation if you wanted to bother.

      But I agree... most of the garages aren't insulated nor is there any real reason to have it insulated either. The garage is there mainly to protect against the wind, keep the snow off the car, and keep the vehicle interior from fading in the sun.

    38. Re:So there is a problem... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      precious little snowflake

      I see what you did here.

      At upper Minnesota temps, all vehicles need some thermal considerations.

      To start, yes. And badly designed ones might need engine compartment airflow to be altered. However, if Tesla can be damaged by merely standing in the cold for too long, it might be a problem.

      Also, let's not forget that IC engines get heating for free from their waste heat. An electric car needs to use its precious battery charge to keep the windows clear. So colder locations might need their own specialized model.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    39. Re:So there is a problem... by AaronW · · Score: 1

      Tesla also uses waste heat from the inverter and electric motor. A gasoline powered car also gets less milage in very cold weather. Tesla loses 15-20% of the range in very cold climates which is not all that significant.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    40. Re:So there is a problem... by JonBoy47 · · Score: 1

      Actually, Hyundai, Kia and Mitsubishi all offer the 5/60 bumper/bumper and 10/100 powertrain warranties on all their new cars to this day. I dare say it hasn't translated to higher sales for Mitsubishi as effectively as it did for the Koreans.

      https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ass...
      http://www.kia.com/us/en/conte...
      http://www.mitsubishicars.com/...

    41. Re:So there is a problem... by sinij · · Score: 1

      In North America expectations are to have 100K without having to do anything more than oil changes, and 250K+ with some gaskets replaced is common. Now, these are mostly highway miles driven at a steady speed.

    42. Re:So there is a problem... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      People that have $80K cars have heated garages. Hell those people have Heated driveways so they never have to shovel.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    43. Re:So there is a problem... by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      You got modded as funny, but it's not supposed to be. The Tesla has a battery heater that will kick in to keep the battery from getting too cold, and leaving it plugged in will avoid power drain from that.

    44. Re:So there is a problem... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tesla also uses waste heat from the inverter and electric motor. A gasoline powered car also gets less milage in very cold weather. Tesla loses 15-20% of the range in very cold climates which is not all that significant.

      Glad you brough that up. Cold weather plays havoc with gasoline, forcing the manufacturers to reformulate. The biggest change is addition of butanol, which will allow the engine to start in very cold weather. But butanol really wants to be in the gaseous state in warmer weather, and evaporates out of gasoline in the summer really quickly - a plastic gas can of winter grade gasoline gets rather "bulgy" in the summer. The butanol is a large part of why cars get less gas milage in the winter, often mistakenly totally attributed to ethanol. Ethanol has a gas milage penalty, also, before that gets added to the topic.

      See, this is why I get really weary of all the hate bestowed on the Teslas. Any issue at all is amplified into ridiculous heights, in order to discredit them. We have a huge amount of infrastructure in place, and many accomodations made for internal combustion engines, including different fuel configurations just to keep the damn things running. At all, and the configurations are not terribly compatible. That winter gas will evaporate on you in the summer, and starting in -30 with a tankful of summer gas will have you running for the ether as your fingers get frostbit. Does the Tesla perhaps use a different form of electricity in different seasons?

      But keeping that Tesla plugged in when it's really cold is just too damned inconvenient even when it's supposed to be plugged in to recharge anyway. When they need to plug in their internal combustion engine heaters also. Umm, the problem here? It's not the Tesla, it's people that hate them grasping at straws for talking points, and forgetting that their own favorite propulsion mechanism requires a whole lot of tweaking to keep running.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    45. Re:So there is a problem... by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      >[...] with an attached garage and insulated garage door, plus granite countertops, ethernet wiring, a hot tub, and a home theater room, and a few acres of land.

      I use WiFi, you insensitive clod!

    46. Re:So there is a problem... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      WiFi is great for mobile devices, but for non-mobile devices ethernet is always better. If you can afford a Tesla, you'll definitely want gigabit ethernet to connect to your media computer in your home theater room, and also to your home server in your server closet.

    47. Re:So there is a problem... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      (we had 18.75 feet of snow this winter... FEET not inches... FEET Minnesota does not have a lake superior snow machine running from August (yes we have had snow in august) to April, although we froze over that great lake this year so we did not get as much snow.

      If there is a god - he's cruel. No mountains.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    48. Re:So there is a problem... by tibit · · Score: 1

      Huh? My S80 has 1/4 million miles on it, all engine seals are original, no leaks.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    49. Re:So there is a problem... by tibit · · Score: 1

      What kind of cars do they sell in UK, for crying out loud? I'd expect anything from a major manufacturer and not from Detroit to be pretty much worn-in at the 100k mark, and ready to go another 200k at least without needing a new engine nor a new transmission. Heck, I'd expect a manual transmission to easily outlast any automatic (yes, the clutch is a maintenance item).

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  2. Are there any reasons... by cosmin_c · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... that can be given that Elon Musk isn't one of the best humans out there? Let me elaborate a bit. In an age of chasing profits and cut-throat competition and where the most ruthless are getting rich, there are some people chasing another type of enrichment. And this comes after giving up on patents. I don't know this man, but it'd be an honour to shake his hand. I simply got nothing that could do justice. Nikola Tesla would indeed be proud.

    1. Re:Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You clearly have never had to deal with the Hell that is PayPal. He's still deep in the Karma hole for that one.

    2. Re:Are there any reasons... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      And, like Disney, for example, 30 years after the founder dies, the corporation he left will be an example of soulless tincture of evil. Watching and waiting for this to happen to Apple next.

    3. Re:Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did you just seriously compare Steve Jobs to Elon Musk?

      Steve Jobs wasn't exactly a saint. He redefined "walled garden". But if you're IN the walled garden, I can see how you'd be deluded in to thinking that's ok.

    4. Re:Are there any reasons... by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      Compared to the cost of maintaining even a very reliable gas-powered car like a Honda Accord, $600/yr looks like a bargain.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    5. Re: Are there any reasons... by killerzax · · Score: 5, Informative

      You read wrong; the service is not necessary to keep the warranty.

    6. Re:Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      More like damage control if you ask me.

      From an engineering standpoint though, how can you screw up a electric motor connected to a fixed one speed transmission?
      That Edmunds needed THREE replacement units within 30,000 miles.
      Let's not pronounce Henry Ford, the second coming, as yet.

    7. Re:Are there any reasons... by jrumney · · Score: 2

      He is trying to build up a company from nothing to compete with the big 3 in just a few years. Having rumors of expensive repair bills looming at the end of the warranty period is not conducive to building market share, so this is nothing more than a sensible business decision (assuming only a small minority of drive units are actually failing).

    8. Re:Are there any reasons... by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      African-American?

      While not specifically a cologne, per say, it is the dark (intended) fantasy of many a housewife of European descent.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    9. Re:Are there any reasons... by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Insightful
      People fuck up.

      Things go unexpectedly wrong as a matter of course in everyday life, let alone in the midst of innovation, since redefining the norm is a process fraught with a high failure rate.

      Owning it, and retroactively covering models no longer affected by factory warranty? That's the kind of shit you can easily get behind.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    10. Re:Are there any reasons... by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      Well is commons sense what he is doing. You give the customer what they want and more and they will come back to you and give you moar. So do the opposite of what the big companies are doing.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    11. Re:Are there any reasons... by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      How does it go more than 600$/year for you for maintaining an Accord? How many miles do you drive?

    12. Re:Are there any reasons... by DexterIsADog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I see Elon Musk as a sort of Pablo Escobar, Gaining insane profits over crooked system and other's suffering, Who then tries to create a new PR image of himself as a great man. Remember, I don't think ether one is doing it for cathartic reason but instead to boost their egos through better public image hoping to secure a good spot in the history books. Just like Carnegie and Rockefeller...

      You clearly don't know shit about Carnegie if you can compare Musk with that bastard.

    13. Re:Are there any reasons... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I see Elon Musk as a sort of Pablo Escobar, Gaining insane profits over crooked system and other's suffering

      You mean all the suffering ebay users? Oh, the humanity!

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Are there any reasons... by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Which should not be underestimated. Paypal, as a matter of routine break the law separating people from their money so they can blackmail them for more information/linked accounts.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    15. Re:Are there any reasons... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Oil changes might only add up to ~$150/year. Figuring dealer pricing for the other fluids, break pads, and such add up quick even if they're not routine.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    16. Re:Are there any reasons... by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Well there is quite a bit more equipment between the battery and electric motor. Not quite like the old days of controlling the speed with a rheostat. That said for $15K you could buy a brand new car or a pretty nice used one.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    17. Re:Are there any reasons... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Like Steve Jobs in that he delivered a product that people would like and provided excellent customer service. For all his personal flaws, it's leaders like him, Musk, and Ford that paved the way towards American exceptionalism. But the real take-away from these men isn't that they're rare, but that we all have the capacity to emulate them however small or big in the market; be it in a small town restaurant, or fortune 500 company. America, and the rest of the world for that matter could learn a lot from them in how they value their customer.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    18. Re:Are there any reasons... by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      LOL. You should have read a bit more.
      2 of those were changed because edmunds THOUGHT that they MIGHT hear a rattle and that it was the drive unit. Basically, only one was real, and it was for the gearbox.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    19. Re:Are there any reasons... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1
      looooooooool good troll man.

      ... that can be given that Elon Musk isn't one of the best humans out there?

      looooooooool

    20. Re:Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, Carnegie used the monopolistic rail laws of his time to build his empire. It wasn't capitalism that lead to the monopolies but rather government regulation. Also, once again I'm saying he got rich by abusing people and a corrupt system to gain large quantities of wealth. They used this wealth to create a new image around them. AKA Carnegie hall and other philanthropic endeavor, since once image and place in history have now become more valuable then money due to their large quanties of wealth. As far as Carnegie's abuse of unions I think that is more a result of the times we live in then a difference in morality.

      The big difference between Elon Musk and the others is he might actually make the world a better place.

    21. Re:Are there any reasons... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Walled gardens, and Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

    22. Re:Are there any reasons... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Now, if Jobs had just collected a $10,000 per unit subsidy from the government (or scaled equivalent per Apple unit sold) he'd be even MORE like Musk.

    23. Re:Are there any reasons... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Smart people can make a lot of money in fields that don't advance human civilization much, particularly not in science and technology. I don't think they're mutually exclusive, Henry Ford wanted to give the average American a car and turn a nice profit on doing it. Pardon me for saying so, but I think those are far more well deserved than developing another high frequency trading algorithm for Wall Street or something like that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    24. Re:Are there any reasons... by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      Did you just seriously compare Steve Jobs to Elon Musk?

      Steve Jobs wasn't exactly a saint. He redefined "walled garden". But if you're IN the walled garden, I can see how you'd be deluded in to thinking that's ok.

      Is that the worst you can throw at Steve Jobs? He created a walled garden for iOS? He did indeed redefine the "walled garden" of game computers and mobile platforms of the time, but to make it far more accessible and affordable for developers. An some users prefer the walled gardens. They rightly feel more safe. This has nothing to do with delusions, brainwashing, or KoolAid, it is simply a choice. That's why there are condominiums in this world, and packaged tours, and restaurants. If don't like living in a condo, or prefer to plan your own trips and cook your own meals, that is fine, but that doesn't mean more service is evil. Similarly, if you prefer the wilds of Android to the walled garden of iOS that is fine, but that doesn't make walled gardens evil.

    25. Re:Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Does laundering most company profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to avoid taxes count?

    26. Re:Are there any reasons... by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      The irony is how, in many ways, companies like Ford were much closer to Tesla back when they formed. I guess the question is, should Tesla survive Musk, whether history will repeat itself.

    27. Re:Are there any reasons... by JonBoy47 · · Score: 1

      Carnegie certainly operated in the regulatory and business climate of his day. That said, the most egregious transgressions attributed to Carnegie were actually the work of his long-time associate and business partner, Henry Clay Frick.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...

    28. Re:Are there any reasons... by JonBoy47 · · Score: 1

      There's the oil changes, but also factor in radiator and transmission fluid flushes, timing and accessory belt replacements, various radiator and vacuum hoses, and it starts to add up. A timing belt is easily a $600 job, by itself. With the 100k mile replacement interval typical on modern cars, and 15k miles/year average usage, that one service adds $100/year by itself, if you amortize over time. Hold on to that Honda Accord more than five or six years, and you'll also start to get into random wear-out failures after 100k miles, that will be costing you real money.

    29. Re:Are there any reasons... by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      I don't know about current engines, but for the longest time Hondas also required valve adjustments every 15k miles and timing belt replacements every 90k.

    30. Re:Are there any reasons... by IICV · · Score: 1

      You clearly have never had to deal with the Hell that is PayPal. He's still deep in the Karma hole for that one.

      To be fair Musk left PayPal in about 2002, when they were acquired by eBay. The bullshittery started circa 2004.

    31. Re:Are there any reasons... by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      I think you know it's considered highly inappropriate in some circles to use the words fellate and Jesus in the same sentence.. unless you're Catholic. If you are I'm very sorry.

      If you're not just the victim of a rant gone wild, been-there done-that, you just have to maintain the ability to step back and imagine, This isn't the only possible response a car manufacturer could make in the wake of a fuck-up.

      Remember Toyota's floor mat story?

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    32. Re:Are there any reasons... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Carnegie gave a HUGE boost to the public library system, by donating tons of books and money to them.

      Also, having opened the hall that is the subject of a joke most people know is a big thing.

  3. To make it clear by Ecuador · · Score: 3, Informative

    Because the summary sort of makes it sound like a lot of people had to pay for a $15000 replacement: The article says that many people have had to change their drive unit. It does not say specifically that they had to change it out of warranty and out of pocket. Given how new the Model S is and that the existing policy was for 125,000 miles anyway, I suspect it would be very few if any that were adversely affected by the old policy. Musk says they have to stand by the word that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable and the cost to the company is the increase in reserves for dry units that they will need to cover the new warranty since it is applied retroactively.

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:To make it clear by AaronW · · Score: 4, Informative

      The drive unit is a combination of the single electric motor, gear reduction, differential and inverter and axles. It's all a single unit that can be quickly replaced. As Elon stated in his last earnings call, most of the problems were due to some cables that were tucked up in there coming loose and making noise. Before finding out that that was the root cause they just replaced the drive unit because it could be done quickly. Now it turns out all they do is apply some zip ties to fix the problem. The car is fairly modular and should be fairly easy to work on, especially since there's no engine in the way of everything. Things like power steering, coolant pumps, AC, etc. are all easily accessible after removing the frunk plastic tub or the plastic panel under the front of the car.

      When I have taken my Tesla in for a problem they don't fool around but try to address it as quickly as possible. All of the issues I've had with my car, an early model S, have been addressed by later versions of the car.

      Here's a picture of the drive unit: http://arstechnica.com/cars/20...

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  4. Battery by kqc7011 · · Score: 2

    If it included the battery then that might mean something. As it is now, there is just a low percentage of every needing the coverage. No real cost to Tesla, lots of good P.R. but not much else.

    --
    Passionately Indifferent
    1. Re:Battery by FuzzMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      If it included the battery then that might mean something.

      The 85 kWh battery is already warranted for 8 years and unlimited miles.

    2. Re:Battery by uncqual · · Score: 1

      How much did Toyota get for your car vs. what Tesla gets for each Model S (counting the taxpayer's contribution)?

      My Toyota is running fine after over ten years and I don't even bother with most "scheduled maintenance". Obviously oil and filter every so often (much less frequently than recommended), air filters, tires, batteries as needed. Only failure all those years has been I had to clean the MAF sensor to clear a 'check engine' light (did that myself). Some day I may change the spark plugs, belts, and hoses -- but so far no need.

      Actually, every car I've purchased has been brand new well known Japanese brand badged and I've only once had anything eligible for a warranty repair. That was the original battery that went out just a couple months before its warranty expired -- and the dealer suggested that since I would have to pay the prorated replacement price I might just want to do down to the mom-and-pop battery place a couple miles away and save some money (which I did and did).

      Of course, an anecdote isn't data and YMMV (there have been some lemons in the brands I've bought - I've just been lucky not to get one of these models).

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      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    3. Re:Battery by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was for the battery. Now it is the entire powertrain. The battery, the gear box; the motor; the inverter (which is with the drive unit).
      My guess is that down the road, they will change this to be 10-12 years, once it is realized that their work has high quality and will stand up far better than an ICE will.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  5. Not a fan of Tesla but this is pretty awesome by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If only other manufacturers would learn that stepping in front of an issue is always better than being run over by it, both for total cost and, more importantly, reputation.

  6. 8 years or 125k miles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So divide mileage required to get out of warranty [125,000] by the number of months the vehicle has been available on the market [26, since June 2012], you get a minimum possible average of just over 4800 miles/month. Unless of course the article mentions other ways to get to the point of being out of warranty. [8 years or older, or over 125,000 miles for those that didn't read TFS.]

    1. Re:8 years or 125k miles by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      No, you obviously did NOT read TFS. 8 years/125K miles is for the 60 KWH pack. For the 85 KWH, it is 8 years and infinite milage. Go ahead and divide infinity by 96.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:8 years or 125k miles by Rick+in+China · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understood the comment. I had the same question...

      The point is, people are driving these cars an average of almost 5k miles a month in order to get out of warranty? That's a LOT of driving.

    3. Re:8 years or 125k miles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No need to divide infinity, as the car isn't capable of it. Even if you drive it non-stop at 60mph for 8 years, you can't go over 4.5 million miles. In real life, you won't hit even 5% of that.

    4. Re:8 years or 125k miles by aitikin · · Score: 1

      And your previous comment ignored TFA where it is stated that, if it were out of warranty, that's how much it would cost. A number of people have needed that repair, but it does not mention that those people ever were out of warranty.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
  7. Are there any reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have enormous respect for Elon Musk, but don't mistake enlightened self interest for altruism.

    Musk is a very successful and brilliant business person. I just think he also understands that customers appreciate being treated with respect and integrity. It doesn't hurt that he clearly believes in building the best product(s) possible, relying on innovations to place him squarely ahead of the entrenched players (whether that's NASA/Boeing/ULA, or GM/Ford.) His particular brand of greed is good for nearly everyone, but don't mistake it for something other than greed.

  8. not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Funny

    First we had the smug "NASA is boring, Elon Musk is awesome" article, and now this. If we hit 3 articles in 1 day, I think it becomes a national holiday!

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      Look you. It's hard to be a fanboi around here. First it was Apple, then Jobs had to go and die on us. Then it was Google which somehow managed to go all Evil in the space of a few years.

      There always were a few twisted folk who thought Gates was the second coming but we mostly ignored them except to use them as the butt of some pretty nasty jokes.

      Who else? Nokia? Blackberry? Motorola? H-P ???????

      So 'ol Elon shows up in a cool car and a rocketship. Man, that's pretty close to God hood around here. Car AND Rocket Scientist analogies.

      He's all we've got.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      First it was Apple, then Jobs had to go and die on us.

      And there was the whole being a huge raging dick since the moment he was born and feeding off the the talent and innovation of others.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      Gads, you must have REALLY lost major money on Tesla and Solar City by shorting them.
      The fact is, that this man is making a massive change to our society.
      I hate to think of what you would say about ppl like Einstein.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      It's disturbing that you put Musk and Einstein in the same paragraph. Einstein was one of the most successful breakthrough scientists in history. Musk is a wheeler-dealer.

  9. Meh. the time limit is still there by m00sh · · Score: 1

    So they removed the mileage limit but they still have the time limit of 8 years.

    It's not like people are going to use a Tesla car to go cross-country driving. They have to charge the car after use and so has to remain near a viable charge station. So, the removing the mileage limit seems pointless.

    If they removed the time limit of 8 years, then it would be something.

    I don't see this as a big deal. Sure sounds good but the service centers probably realized that the mileage of the cars coming in for service was nowhere close to getting to warranty mileage and just dropped them.

    1. Re:Meh. the time limit is still there by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      First off, superchargers will cover America and Western Europe within another 1.5 years.
      Secondly, Tesla is coming out with a battery swap that will allow you to rent a battery that allows for 500 MPC, with a 90 second battery swap. Of course, when it is empty, it will either take another battery swap (costing as much as a tank of gas), OR it will take about 2 hours at a super charger for a full tank, or about 1 hour for 300-350 MPC. That would mean that you can do 800 miles with only a 1 hour stop. Not bad.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Meh. the time limit is still there by AaronW · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I see superchargers popping up all over the place. They're becoming quite common along the east and west coasts. They're not needed for in-town driving since most people charge at home. The battery swap will cost about the same as a full tank of gas and includes swapping your original fully-charged battery back on the return trip. Using the supercharger is free forever.

      I've used the superchargers numerous times and they were not a major inconvenience. When I drove up to Lake Tahoe from the Bay Area I stopped at the one in Folsom. I went and grabbed a burger and by the time I was done eating and using the restroom the car was ready to go and it cost me nothing to use.

      Every morning I start out with a full battery. It takes me 5 seconds to plug in at night and 5 to unplug in the morning. I spend far less time charging than I ever did waiting in line to fill up with gas at Costco. Besides, I don't have to stay with the car while it's charging. Usually there's other stuff to do within easy walking distance. In 30 minutes I get 170 miles of range. They're generally only needed on long trips, not for everyday driving since it's more convenient to charge overnight at home. Even charging at home I average over 50 miles of range per hour of charging (with a dedicated 80A 240V charger).

      The chargers are popping up all over the place as can be seen on Tesla's interactive map: http://www.teslamotors.com/sup...

      Better Place died because nobody wanted the EVs that they worked with. Their range was also quite limited and the Better Place setup was quite expensive. With the Tesla I have a choice. I can pay to fill up in 90 seconds or spend nothing and wait a while.

      My last electricity bill for around 1500 miles of driving was $62.57 for 39 days, and I'll admit I tend to exceed the speed limit and accelerate hard, so I'm not taking it easy either. Next month I'm driving up to Seattle and it will cost me $0 in electricity.

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    3. Re: Meh. the time limit is still there by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it is far better that we spend many times more for your oil based car, or that our kids die protecting it.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Meh. the time limit is still there by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1
      they day they build superchargers at brothels is the day i buy a tesla. i see more hydrogen stations than superchargers.

      The battery swap will cost about the same as a full tank of gas and includes swapping your original fully-charged battery back on the return trip. Using the supercharger is free forever.

      why would these things be true? battery swapping and supercharging, if they come to pass, could end up being very expensive. after all, it's not like you can go elsewhere for a better price.

    5. Re: Meh. the time limit is still there by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

    6. Re:Meh. the time limit is still there by AaronW · · Score: 1

      Currently there are far more superchargers than hydrogen filling stations and they are expanding very rapidly. On top of that, there are tens of thousands of public charging stations at shopping centers, parking garages and elsewhere. Electricity is everywhere. A supercharger is estimated to cost under $200K. A hydrogen filling station cost a minimum of between 2 to 4 million to build and the cost of hydrogen will never be competitive with gasoline, especially if made from cracking water water.

      The cost of a battery swapping station is still far less than the cost of a hydrogen filling station. Most of the time the only thing that is needed for the battery swap is electricity and periodic restocking of batteries, which may not be all that often since the cost of swapping includes swapping again for your original battery. For one thing, the hydrogen filling station will need to be manned when it's open for safety, the battery swap does not need that since it is fully automated. Second of all, the cost of a hydrogen filling station will be far higher. If hydrogen is not made on site then a LOT of trucks will be needed to transport the hydrogen since a truck can typically only carry enough hydrogen to fill around 200 vehicles due to the heavy high pressure tanks involved. Regular pipelines cannot transport hydrogen due to embrittlement and leaks. High pressure pumps are also required. The equipment to make hydrogen on-site is also very expensive, and if it is made from water then a tremendous amount of electricity is required. Most likely it would be made from natural gas through steam reforming which also releases CO2. It takes several times as much electricity to make hydrogen to power a single hydrogen fuel cell car as it does to power an EV. In fact, 20% of hydrogen's energy content is used just to compress it.

      Furthermore, you will need far more filling stations since EVs typically do most of their charging at home. With hydrogen this is not really possible. The only time I need to use a supercharger is during long trips. I have no need for most of my driving which is within the range of the battery. I spend 5 seconds plugging in at night and 5 seconds unplugging in the morning. Superchargers are typically needed along long distance routes, not in every town like gas stations or hydrogen filling stations.

      http://www.thenewatlantis.com/...
      http://www.teslamotors.com/sup...

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    7. Re:Meh. the time limit is still there by AaronW · · Score: 1

      The superchargers are not subsidized in any way by taxes. The cost of the electricity used is factored in to the price of the car itself for the 85KWh battery or is a $2000 option for the 60KWh battery car. The actual cost of the electricity is not much. If Tesla is paying $0.10/KWh then a full charge is $8.50. $2000 would cover a lot of charges. Since most charging is done at home overnight it ends up not costing Tesla much money at all. As they build out their solar the cost of the electricity drops even further. Tesla also paid back, with interest, their government loan. The $80K cars are being used to fund their development of $30K cars.

      Tesla has agreements with the property owners for installing their superchargers in their parking lots and it's often in the property owner's interest since that means that someone with an expensive car will be stopping by there for half an hour or so to charge and will likely want to use the amenities in the area. Public funds are not used in any way.

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  10. There are by clay_buster · · Score: 1

    125,000 miles would be considered a serious quality defect with a traditional auto. If memory serves me right, most recent example was BMW nikasil engine block issue.

    Owners of early 2000s Dodge Caravans and Ford Windstars might disagree. Plenty got less than 100,000 before developing issues that cost more to repair than the value of the vehicle.

    1. Re:There are by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      It's okay to cherry-pick a few lemon models of conventional cars, to compare to the Tesla. That makes the Tesla look more reliable.

  11. Quite a few??? by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

    The Model S has only been available for a couple years. It's really hard to imagine that many people have driven a Model S more than 125,000 miles.

    --
    Greed is the root of all evil.
  12. Re:too much by EvilJoker · · Score: 1

    All kinds of people buy cars that are completely out of warranty. I believe the longest factory warranty is 100k miles, but there's no shortage of used cars with more than that (even significantly more)

    When buying used, you are taking a risk. The only difference is that, since Teslas are new, no one's really sure what the failure/longevity rates are. It's also possible that Tesla will start a Certified Pre-Owned option, with an extended warranty. Or that the cost of this repair will go down substantially by the time anyone would be paying out of pocket.

  13. "more than a year" = "immediately"? by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

    There's a problem and they're handling it immediately and responsibly,

    Uh, these drivetrain failures have been happening for at least a year. Google around and you'll see reports of failures around early 2013.

    Edmund's Tesla has had the drive unit replaced FOUR times since they bought it last year.

    http://insideevs.com/edmunds-long-term-tesla-model-s-on-fourth-drive-unit-going-up-for-sale/

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    1. Re:"more than a year" = "immediately"? by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      A year? I will grant you that length of time allowed Tesla to at least consider the options available to them. How many years did GM keep producing vehicles with dual gasoline tanks outside the frame after they knew they were more likely to explode in a collision?

      What can be inferred from that?

      How about their PHB is of the opinion that truth and accountability are foundation principles? See, he's smart enough to assume you are probably smart, too.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  14. 125,000 miles a lemon? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    How many Ford or GM cars back them up after 100,000? All parts or just certain parts? This doesn't seem to be that unusual and I've not heard any claims about 30% failure rates-- given how anything bad with Tesla gets some news coverage and provokes online defenders I would think we'd be hearing about major problems.

    None of my past cars were able to get anything out of the maker after 100,000 miles.

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    Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
  15. Re: So there is a problem...yes, you're talking bo by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

    http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/postcode/rg61hd/radius/1501/maximum-mileage/over_100000_miles/onesearchad/used,nearlynew,new/quicksearch/true

    Most cars there over 1500 quid, over 100k is nothing for modern cars.

    You're talking crap.

  16. Re: So there is a problem...yes, you're talking bo by tibit · · Score: 1

    I hoped so.

    --
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