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Private Police Intelligence Network Shares Data and Targets Cash

Advocatus Diaboli writes Operating in collaboration with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and other federal entities, Black Asphalt members exchanged tens of thousands of reports about American motorists, many of whom had not been charged with any crimes, according to a company official and hundreds of internal documents obtained by The Post. For years, it received no oversight by government, even though its reports contained law enforcement sensitive information about traffic stops and seizures, along with hunches and personal data about drivers, including Social Security numbers and identifying tattoos. Black Asphalt also has served as a social hub for a new brand of highway interdictors, a group that one Desert Snow official has called 'a brotherhood.' Among other things, the site hosts an annual competition to honor police who seize the most contraband and cash on the highways. As part of the contest, Desert Snow encouraged state and local patrol officers to post seizure data along with photos of themselves with stacks of currency and drugs. Some of the photos appear in a rousing hard-rock video that the Guthrie, Okla.-based Desert Snow uses to promote its training courses.

37 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Time to exchange data on the American cops... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...who do this sort of "civil forfeiture." Badge numbers, names, pictures, locations, perhaps home addresses and phones.

    I'm sure they won't mind, just as they won't mind a "civil" lawsuit or two aimed in their direction. After all, fair's fair, eh?

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    1. Re:Time to exchange data on the American cops... by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I remember a site like this about 5 years ago. Seems the owner was arrested and the site taken down for "interfering with an ongoing investigation" and "Aiding and abiding the commission of a Class A Felony"

      Seems one of the undercover cops who's information was posted was shot and killed. They linked it back to the site and charged the owner.

      Though I agree with the idea and agree that making it public is a great idea, just know that they will do anything they can to keep there actions hidden from the public.

    2. Re:Time to exchange data on the American cops... by static0verdrive · · Score: 2

      they will do anything they can to keep there actions hidden from the public.

      Wouldn't we all with that much cash on the line? No one wants their empires taking in any less than the previous day...

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    3. Re:Time to exchange data on the American cops... by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      both sides cops and criminals as long as they're killing each other and not random bi-standards then i'm fine with it

      ...said the criminal who has committed multiple counts of felonies and smaller crimes. If you want to keep that attitude you might want to look into reducing the absurdly large number of overly broad laws. And then design a gun that can identify and refuse to shoot at law-abiding citizens.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    4. Re:Time to exchange data on the American cops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but they're one of the few groups of people who accept the risk exists and chose to do a job anyway.

      Bullshit.

      Want to know who puts their life on the line every day at their job? Fishermen. Lumberjacks. Farm hands. Ironworkers. Garbagemen. Miners. Ranch hands. Truck drivers. Roofers. Roughnecks. Pilots. Bricklayers. Concrete workers. The blue collar workers that feed us and house us and move our goods are the people "who accept the risk exists and chose to do a job anyway"...even today, some of these jobs are 20x more likely to kill you than being a cop.

      Police officer doesn't even make the list of the top fifty most lethal professions. It is on par with bartender and professional athlete in terms of risk.

  2. Defund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Think it is about time to curtail our police state and defund the and repeal the laws that make this possible.

    1. Re:Defund by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Think it is about time to curtail our police state and defund the and repeal the laws that make this possible.

      The question is ... is it legal?

      Or is this just one of many ways in which law enforcement no longer considers themselves subject to the law?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Defund by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Much of their funding comes from the assets they steal. They are becoming economically self sufficient and more dangerous. Soon there will be only one way to deal with them, and you're not going to like it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Defund by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The question is ... is it legal?

      If you can't find a prosecutor willing to investigate and press charges, it's a meaningless question.

    4. Re:Defund by jythie · · Score: 2

      In this case the laws turn a profit, so defunding them would not do much.

    5. Re:Defund by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      No it isn't, because civil forfeiture operates when no charges are filed. If you are arrested, Constitutional rights kick in. Property can be frozen until trial, but any disposition of that property must be by legal judgment. Civil forfeiture allows officials to steal property without due process, so long as no charges are filed.

    6. Re:Defund by Tuidjy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Those are very relevant examples of the British police incompetence resulting in dead citizens. The thing is... there are four of them, and they occurred in a period of twice as many years. Even if you add up all of the fatal British police shootings since 2000, including ones that were 100% justified, in self-defense, and recorded by the ubiquitous cameras, you will still come to about one tenth of the lowest estimate of police shootings in the US for one year.

      The Brits can go years without any fatal police shootings, and the total times service weapons are discharged is usually in the dozens per year. For comparison, last year, there were four fatal police shootings in the US county (no 'r') in which I work. Two in the one where I live, plus a possible bloodbath, in the town were I live, which was avoided because some brave policemen decided to disregard procedure, by rushing and disarming a suspect instead of opening fire on him and his friends.

      If anything, I have been amazed at the videos in which British cops subdue maniacs who are waving various weapons around. Make a Google search. You will find videos of literally dozens of cops spending a good portions of an hour in ultimately successful attempts not to kill people who in the US would be getting a bellyful of lead within seconds.

      I'm not even going to argue whether it's a good thing that these policemen and policewomen are risking their lives to capture those people. I'm not going to say that I would want the cops in my town to act like British cops. But it is a fact that British style policing results in a lot fewer lethal shootings that ours, per capita.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
  3. Holy cow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Desert Snow contract employees took in more than $1 million over six months from drivers on the state's highways, including Interstate 40 west of Oklahoma City. Under its contract, the firm was allowed to keep 25 percent of the cash.

    When Caddo County District Court Judge David A. Stephens learned that Desert Snow employees were not sworn law enforcement officers in Oklahoma, he denounced the arrangement as "shocking," and he threatened to put David in jail if it continued.

    The state's American Civil Liberties Union chapter called for an investigation of the district attorney and criminal charges against Desert Snow employees for impersonating law enforcement officers.

    Wait, so these guys are doing traffic stops and seizures (where they benefit from it) and they're not actually law enforcement?

    So basically they're a shakedown racket? The more they seize the more profit they make? That's RICO level stuff there.

    This kind of stuff is appalling, and it just means that a lot of stuff is being put into the private sector so they can ignore all of those pesky laws.

    Unbelievable.

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    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Holy cow ... by Arker · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is correct. This is a legalized armed-robbery ring preying on US travelers. That, folks, is how low this country has fallen.

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      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    2. Re:Holy cow ... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

      Yes, and you can thank Nancy Reagan and the war on drugs for this shit ( http://lawlibrary.unm.edu/nmlr...)

      Zero tolerance, indeed.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    3. Re:Holy cow ... by Kaenneth · · Score: 2

      We're all too occupied playing the lone hero in video games...

    4. Re:Holy cow ... by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Uh, no. Things started getting a lot nastier with Nixon's Controlled Substances Act. They decided it was best to have the Mob control the substances.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:Holy cow ... by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right, I've run into this before. Always refuse a search. When you do that, if they are a police officer or not will become apparently rather quickly. Non-police will stall and try to get you to hang around so they can bully you into it. Ask if you're under arrest or otherwise being detained against your will, if not, leave. Have no further discussion with that person. Keep in mind that even the police departments get to keep seized cash. It may not go directly into their pocket but it goes to buying them new squad cars, weapons, vests and even towards their bonuses and promotions. So they have a very strong incentive to "Find" something on you. In a large metropolitian department it may not seem so direct to the officers. But you get into your average town that only has half a doze cops and finding a couple of hundred K in a trunk becomes a big win for them.

    6. Re:Holy cow ... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 2

      No. Nearly every state has made it a crime to defend yourself against a police officer, even if that officer is threatening your life while violating your constitutionally guaranteed rights.

      At nearly every turn, you are just plain fucked.

  4. Prey by pitchpipe · · Score: 2

    Anymore, when I am out-and-about, I feel like one member of a big school of fish because when I see a police officer I know that it is mostly random whether I get pulled over or not. This makes him like a big fish that eats us little ones. I try to blend in (stick to the middle of the school) because it is safer. Luckily I am a white guy (that makes it easier to blend in). I really feel for people with darker skin.

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    Look where all this talking got us, baby.
  5. Re:Privatized=Compromised by halivar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Privatization is a means by which corrupt bureaucrats hide the largess of government from an unsuspecting populace. Then they run on a record of "shrinking" the government.

  6. Undercover cop issue a non argument. by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The issue is random confiscation (aka. "theft") by local police. I don't have any problem with confiscation as long as a crime was committed and the defendant proven guilty. What isn't tolerable in any way, shape, or form is confiscation of my property because some dimwitted, local yokel cop *thought* about drugs while looking at my car.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    1. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What isn't tolerable in any way, shape, or form is confiscation of my property because some dimwitted, local yokel cop *thought* about drugs while looking at my car.

      I'm no longer willing to accept "dimwitted local yokel".

      I go straight to assuming they know damned well they can do it, that they benefit from it, and since they don't really require any proof, why not do it and make themselves look good? I don't believe it's credible they do this in good faith.

      And, of course, I'm sure they skim a little off the top for themselves.

      The rest of the police complain that it's a few bad apples who do this, and that it makes the rest of them look bad. If the honest cops want to stop this perception, start arresting the crooked ones.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by weilawei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In January last year, David hired himself and his top trainers out as a roving private interdiction unit for the district attorney’s office in rural Caddo County, Okla. Working with local police, Desert Snow contract employees took in more than $1 million over six months from drivers on the state’s highways, including Interstate 40 west of Oklahoma City. Under its contract, the firm was allowed to keep 25 percent of the cash.

    3. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even worse it's using things like RICO; which are intended for ongoing criminal enterprises (like a cartel or organized crime) as a tool to steal money from individuals.

      Civil forfeiture consists of your property being the defendant, and you have no standing in the case.

      Nothing better than seizing an asset, denying the owner standing in the case, and then keeping whatever was seized regardless of criminal charges filed against the owner.

      Carrying cash is now essentially illegal. Ideally the police would need to prove illegal actions to keep it, or worse, you'd have to prove it was legit. But no; now they just assume it's dirty, and keep it -- with or without a charge (let alone a conviction).

    4. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't have any problem with confiscation as long as a crime was committed and the defendant proven guilty.

      You should have a problem with it. Even if the defendant is guilty, the punishment should be decided by a judge, not a cop. The current system, where the police department can keep what they confiscate, gives them a HUGE incentive to fabricate evidence.

    5. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by jmcvetta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the honest cops want to stop this perception

      There are no honest cops. Any decent, non-abusive, non-corrupt person who joins up is drummed out of the force within a year.

    6. Re:Undercover cop issue a non argument. by NotSanguine · · Score: 2

      I don't have any problem with confiscation as long as a crime was committed and the defendant proven guilty.

      You should have a problem with it. Even if the defendant is guilty, the punishment should be decided by a judge, not a cop. The current system, where the police department can keep what they confiscate, gives them a HUGE incentive to fabricate evidence.

      GP seems to be under the misconception that some sort of evidence is needed. This is how it goes:
      1. Cop sees car rolling down the road
      2. [sniff, sniff from 1/2 a mile away] Cop "smells" drugs in car
      3. Cop impounds car and any valuables he likes as "Civil Forfeiture"
      4. Profit!

      Note that the owner of impounded property is *never* charged with a crime (unless they object to being robbed by the police, then it's assault on the police or the ever-popular "resisting arrest"), and their only recourse is to hire a lawyer and start a civil suit to regain their property.

      Oh, you thought there was anything even vaguely like a criminal inquiry involved? That's adorable!

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  7. "The New Yorker" article on civil forfeiture by DutchUncle · · Score: 2

    http://www.newyorker.com/magaz... "Under civil forfeiture, Americans who haven’t been charged with wrongdoing can be stripped of their cash, cars, and even homes. Is that all we’re losing?"

  8. Aggravated Robbery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Means, motive, opportunity.

  9. Re:Privatized=Compromised by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

    What else would we expect when we privatize police activities that should clearly be done by accountable public entites?

    What else would we expect when we privatize the entire government and effectively do away with accountable public entites? That's only a slight exaggeration of the current situation - soon it won't be an exaggeration at all.

    It's also not entirely an issue of privatization. Even when the DEA didn't have the private-sector taint outlined in the article, they were over-zealous over-enforcers with their own political power and their own obvious vested interest in keeping drugs illegal and penalties harsh.

    That said, you are right, and ruthlessly weeding out private-sector parasites like Desert Snow would be a very good place to start - presuming there's enough accountable government power left to do so.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  10. Property-seizures MUST STOP by mi · · Score: 4, Informative

    Desert Snow encouraged state and local patrol officers to post seizure data along with photos of themselves with stacks of currency and drugs

    Law enforcement doing their job — and bragging about it — is fine. All professions do that, it is normal.

    I don't even mind them seizing the (illegal) drugs, but possession of cash is not against the law. Unfortunately, a loophole in the American legal thinking (as well as the British, which we inherited) does not provide much protection to a person's property . Nowhere near as much as to the person himself.

    The Executive can seize cash, vehicles, and even real estate without Judiciary oversight or approval — and that ought to stop. Their justification — that what they are seizing things was used for "criminal activity" — comes into play, before anyone is convicted in any criminality.

    That must stop. A judge may impose limitations on using of the suspect property (and fund-transfer) — the same way movement limitations are imposed on a person, while investigation is ongoing or a trial is pending. But no seizures ought to be permitted until a "Guilty" verdict is pronounced and the sentencing enumerates, what's to be seized as a punishment.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Property-seizures MUST STOP by dywolf · · Score: 2

      I do believe I said civil forfeiture needs to go away. So yes, further insult on top of that is of course even more infuriating.

      What do you mean make no seizures and arrests? It's not only in the source article, but in the local news as well (I happen to live there). They aren't just training cops. They are literally acting as cops on their own. They run their own patrols. They make their own stops and detentions on the highway. You're goddamned right thats the most shocking bit. They're now facing charges and lawsuits related to "impersonating police", and the ADA who was involved is likewise facing some severe penalties. And its starting ot look like some of the other surrounding counties got involved too.

      Much like the For Profit Prison model, their interests are completely polar opposite to that of the Police. The interests of Police at least (ideally) are aligned with the Public's: ie, the enforcement of law. This naturally leads to a desire to decrease criminality. But a corporation's interests lie in making money. And how does a For Profit Police/Prison company make more money? By finding more criminals, and increasing criminality.

      Whatever. There's no sense in even talking to you "ALL GOVERNMENT IS EVIL" types. Government isnt always the solution but its not always the enemy either. Against corporations, how else do you deal with a bad actor? Individually? No that doesnt work, you're too small individually. Some sort of collective action right? A bunch of individuals acting in concert? Congratulations: that's what Government is.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    2. Re:Property-seizures MUST STOP by dywolf · · Score: 2

      (my kingdom for an edit button)

      Thats why you people need to stop thinking of government as some mysterious other disconnected from you, and get involved in it. By the people, of the people, for the people, all the jazz. its an ideal thats hard to attain and maintain, and i hold no illusions that our government is meeting said ideal, but that doesnt mean the solution is to scrap it. Vote. Get involved. Help stop corporations* and rich folks from owning too much much of it, from enjoying disproportionate representation. One person, one vote. None of this "well i have more money, so my voice gets to be louder" crap. Our country is and has been more of an oligarchy than a democracy for some time. The solution to that problem isnt to throw out your best tool against it.

      *BTW, corporations aren't evil.
      They're worse.
      They're amoral. Evil is predictable. Amorality is not, especially since hte source of their amorality is the pursuit of money, and people can get very creative when it comes to making money. You have a lot of faith in corporations. I dont. Companies have flouted and ignored food safety laws because they calculated they could afford to get away with so much and increase their profits by X amount....food safety laws created specifically because companies were poisoning people because they calculated just how much they could get away with.

      Same withClean Air, CLean water acts, and the EPA that you folks love to deride. There's a reason we have them: Cause companies didn't give a shit. The way China looks now, with all that smog and pollution? That's what american cities used to be like. We had waterways that were so polluted they actually caught fire.
      Water. On fire. at the time of the CWA's passage 3/4 of the surface waters of our nation were unfit and unsafe to use. Today you wouldnt know it, the cleanup effort has been so successful.

      Corporations have not, do not, and will not ever operate with the public's interest foremost in their minds.
      The only entity that does that is THE PUBLIC. And the way The Public expresses its collective will is through Government.
      Failing that, it's through guns and revolution, which isn't very pleasant for anyone, as it tends to be very short lasting and unstable and devolve into a vicious circle of re-revolution.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  11. Racial Profiling Much? by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
    Guess what racial/ethnic backgrounds the cops/self professed thugs have vs. the people they steal from? It's an easy question to answer. Case in point

    Nevada county settles suits on I-80 cash seizures Tan Nguyen of Newport and Michael Lee of Denver said in lawsuits filed in U.S. District Court in Reno they were stopped last year on Interstate 80 near Winnemucca about 165 miles east of Reno under the pretext of speeding. They said they were subjected to illegal searches and told they wouldn’t be released with their vehicles unless they forfeited their cash.

    The suits accused the same veteran deputy, Lee Dove, of taking a briefcase full of $50,000 in cash from Nguyen after stopping him for exceeding the speed limit by 3 mph in September, and seizing $13,800 and a handgun from Lee during a similar stop in December.

    ... Nguyen was given a written warning for speeding but wasn’t cited. As a condition of release, he signed a “property for safekeeping receipt,” which indicated the money was abandoned or seized and not returnable. But the lawsuit says he did so only because Dove threatened to seize his vehicle unless he “got in his car and drove off and forgot this ever happened.”

    The day after Nguyen had his money taken, the sheriff issued a news release with a photograph of Dove pictured with a K-9 and $50,000 in seized cash “after a traffic stop for speeding.”

    “This cash would have been used to purchase illegal drugs and now will benefit Humboldt County with training and equipment. Great job,” the statement said.

    If you look at the information about the seizures it would be immediately obvious that the targets don't look like your stereotypical redneck sheriff. Surprise, surprise.

    Want to smuggle anything? Look like a good old boy and have a NRA sticker on your car. For bonus points add some Tea Party crap. The cops will give you a thumbs up and send you on your way.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Racial Profiling Much? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 2

      Interesting story. I find it ironic that you mention Humboldt County as I was channel surfing just the other night and came across a show called Pot Cops or something. It is set in Humboldt County, and the entire show revolved around these stupid cops chasing their tales trying to bust pot growers despite the fact that the growers had permits for medicinal marijuana. The attitude of the cops was startling. They were visibly angry that they couldn't get these people into jail, and kept calling them criminals despite the fact that everything they were doing was legal. One guy had even been to court a few and found innocent each time. They still arrested him again anyway just because they are bullies. As someone who lives on the other side of the world I couldn't believe how stupid these cops were. So blatantly wrong with their interpretation of the law, and just looking for excuses to push people around, and all of this on camera! Seriously, fuck the police.

  12. Re:Privatized=Compromised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Privatization is a means by which corrupt bureaucrats hide the largess of government from an unsuspecting populace. Then they run on a record of "shrinking" the government.

    It is more than that. It is wealth transfer from government employees to corporate owners. They sell it is a cost reduction that comes from using private employees who get paid less and don't get very good benefits because of competition between bidders. But after a year or two the institutional knowledge makes it extremely difficult to change to a new service provider so th company gets a lock on the contract, raises prices to match or even exceed the original costs but the employees remain underpaid and the difference goes into the pockets of the corporate owners.

    You end up with the worst of both worlds - bureaucratic inefficiency and poverty-level wages. At least with direct government employees they were paid well enough to spend money in the local economy. This just sucks the local tax dollars out and puts it into the international stock market.