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Link Between Salt and High Blood Pressure 'Overstated'

An anonymous reader writes: Diagnosed with high blood pressure? If so, you were probably told to moderate or avoid the use salt in your food. Well, a new study (abstract found that salt is not associated with systolic blood pressure after controlling for other factors. The study found that BMI, age, and alcohol consumption all strongly influenced blood pressure, and concluded that maintaining a healthy body weight was the best way to counteract it. The publication of this research follows a CDC report from Tuesday decrying the amount of salt in children's diets — a report that lists high blood pressure as one of its main concerns. The debate on this issue is far from over, and it'll take years to sort out all the contradictory evidence.

291 comments

  1. I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    My wife.

    1. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by RivenAleem · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't know about blood pressure, but she sure sets my heart a-racing ;) ;)

    2. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

      Seems like your wife is popular...

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    3. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is the love worth the stress?

    4. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by bware · · Score: 2

      The funniest thing is that you posted as AC.

      Is that you, ghost of Henny Youngman?

    5. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup (nearly had a heart attack.)

    6. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      I seem to cause high blood pressure in my wife. Especially when I have my blood pressure taken and it is insanely low. I have the blood pressure of a marathon runner. Not the rest of the body, mind you. Just the blood pressure.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    7. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    8. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      Just wait until next week, when they announce that cigarettes are actually good for us!

    9. Re: I know what causes high blood pressure by KamikazeSquid · · Score: 1

      I was going to say that unclosed parentheses are what causes high blood pressure.

    10. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And is she salty?

    11. Re: I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Her semen sure is...

    12. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Well, the original Marathon runner had an extremely low blood pressure after the finish line. You still have a room for improvement.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have the body of a sportsman. (Sumo's a sport, right?)

    14. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I've never bothered to stop!

    15. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey - stop messin' with my wife!

    16. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      I have the body of an e-sportsman.

    17. Re:I know what causes high blood pressure by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So do I. Don't tell the police to check my back yard.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    CDC: "A vast majority of scientific research confirms that as sodium is reduced, so is blood pressure."

    Which does not mean that salt *causes* blood pressure to increase.

    Eat shitty food, which happens to contain a lot of salt, and you will have high blood pressure.

    Eat good food, and add a ton of salt to it, and you will have normal blood pressure.

    Anyone who has taken the time to experiment with their diet can see the results themselves (like I have).

    1. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      OK folks, you heard it here first.

      Slashdot. Ahead of everybody, all of the time.

      Just ask us.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      The same can be said of cholesterol, statin drugs and heart disease but they're still a good idea.

    3. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      statins are good for a brief period after a cardiac event.

      long term, the evidence doesn't show nearly as strong a benefit, and the medical community has greatly understated the potential risks of long term use.

      i work on a floor with 120 techies, a lot of them are middle age or older. We have noticed that a large number of them were having severe leg pains, and found statins in common. After consulting with physicians and doing our own research, it was a "known" issue, and often a precuror to other ugly issues, like kidney failure, stroke, blood clots,

    4. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The same can be said of cholesterol, statin drugs and heart disease but they're still a good idea.

      No, they are not. Cholesterol has been labeled a boogeyman, along with saturated fats, but it's all based on erroneous or over-hyped information. That has given us margarine (plastic for your body), high carbohydrate diets loaded with wheat gluten, and the result is massive obesity - and all the concomitant health issues.

      You NEED a good amount of cholesterol for a healthy nervous system, and avoiding eggs and cholesterol containing foods in general is thought to be responsible for the increase in Alzheimer's disease, among other issues.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    5. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      Statin drugs do funny things to your brain.

      There was even one guy who had amnesia whenever you took it.

      Statins do have a 2% decreased risk of cardiac events for diabetics.

      The link is less clear in non-diabetics.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    6. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Wait. He got amnesia whenever I took a drug?

      Citation needed. ;^)

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    7. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Informative

      But don't ask us on Ask Slashdot. There we will tell you to do your job yourself, that your company should hire someone who has a clue and/or that you don't even understand the question.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    8. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      I forget...

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    9. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We have noticed that a large number of them were having severe leg pains, and found statins in common.

      So do yourselves a favor, fat old guys: take 30 minutes a day after lunch, and take a fucking walk.

      You'll reduce your need for statins, get your biomarkers like cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. into a more normal range, and probably eliminate some of those "mysterious" leg pains that are likely to be caused by sitting on your fat ass all day and not getting any exercise.

    10. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by jenningsthecat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      [mercola.com]

      According to recent information and studies there seems to something to the Low Carb High Fat diet, not just for weight loss, but for much better serum cholesterol numbers and lower inflammation markers. But citing Joe Mercola probably isn't convincing anybody of the credibility of what you're saying.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    11. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Claims to be a doctor
      Makes counterintuitive claims
      has an 877 number on the site

      Everything about that link screams "quack", as do your claims:
        * Gluten isnt bad for you, unless you have a specific allergy or condition.
        * That claim about margarine being plastic is dumb and based on the absurdly stupid notion that molecules that look similar are similar. By that logic, water is flammable (only one atom off of H2!), highly oxidizing (H2O2) and potentially highly acidic (H2SO4)
        * Carbs dont lead to obesity; inactivity and a crappy diet do. Want proof, look at any highly-active runner-- they tend to eat a lot of carbs and still are pretty fit
        * Noone knows what causes alzheimers other than "plaques in your brain".
        * The sources listed in that naturalnews.com article are horrendous; none of them an actual scientific publication, one of them "goodworkswellness.com" and another a blog? Wow.

      You're right about needing cholesterol, but generally the problem is people getting too much, not too little.

    12. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I don't do trivial citations.

      Google statin amnesia.

      Here's a link instead.
      http://static.comicvine.com/up...

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    13. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Oh wait... I see what you.. uh.. I did there.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    14. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Just don't ask us about Beta)

    15. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee today, but can someone explain this:

      ...the study found no statistically significant association between blood pressure and sodium in the diet, those patients who were hypertensive consumed significantly more salt than those without hypertension...

      So, there's no correlation between A and B, but where there's more A there's significantly more B. WTF?

    16. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you wouldn't have this problem if you used an open-source salt, like GNU/NaCl.

    17. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Yep - the myelin sheath that protects neurons is primarily made of cholesterol.

    18. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Which does not mean that salt *causes* blood pressure to increase.

      Technically, salt increases osmotic pressure and definitely causes blood pressure to increase. The only thing in question is whether dietary sodium directly affects blood salt levels and to what extent. Not the same thing

      </pedant>

    19. Re: CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Wheat gluten is not the problem, unless you fall for fads. Its the carbohydrates not the protein in wheat that makes us fat.

    20. Re: CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      Its the carbohydrates not the protein in wheat that makes us fat.

      Well maybe, but you won't find many foods that have wheat gluten and nothing else from the wheat, plus it all depends on who you ask. I've lost weight since I went gluten free, but I've made other changes too (like avoiding processed sugar and eating more saturated fats), so can't attribute my own success to wheat avoidance alone.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    21. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eat good food, and add a ton of salt to it, and you will have normal blood pressure.

      doesn't a lot of "good food" still contain added salt and sugar, to make them palatable?

    22. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      Everything about that link screams "quack", as do your claims:

      I prefer the term "crackpot". But of course it seems that way to people that have only seen the mainstream nutrition ideas we are bombarded with on a daily basis. I came to my understanding faced with an incurable terminal illness. We were planning for the funeral until I decided to try to do my own research and try nutritional treatments. It was a truly stunning and miraculous transformation. The disease is still there, and death will come, but it's many years off now, not just a few months, the oxygen tanks are gone because they aren't needed any more, and life has real QUALITY now, even though there are a few things I still can't do.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    23. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      [mercola.com]

      According to recent information and studies there seems to something to the Low Carb High Fat diet, not just for weight loss, but for much better serum cholesterol numbers and lower inflammation markers. But citing Joe Mercola probably isn't convincing anybody of the credibility of what you're saying.

      Your link is nothing but stuff the FDA complained about Mercola doing. Frankly, in my book, anyone that the big-pharma paid and Monsanto-protecting corporate-controlled bully that the FDA is today wants to discredit must be someone who is doing something right.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    24. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Jartan · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to disagree that he's a quack. Bringing up "highly-active" runners is just as bad though.

      Whatever we recommend on a national level should be purely based on people who get very little exercise.

    25. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You also don't do humor, Sheldon. He even put the fucking smiley at the end!

    26. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      We're also modest, which you can see by the parent comment's "Funny" moderation.

      Slashdot: Modest, smartest, and best-looking.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    27. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have taken the contemporary view on high blood pressure with a pinch of salt, the biggest cause of all heart related issues which are avoidable is exercise.

      The Mantra I live by is you can eat what ever you like, as long as you are prepared to put in the effort to do the work required to burn it off. (Plus all things in moderation). And this works well I eat a lot (including a lot of salt with my meals) and exercise a lot.

    28. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, I get all my medical advice from anonymous people on Slashdot.

      (Says someone who has struggled with stage 2 hypertension, and not, at various stages of his 20s, and is a doctor himself... and so I'd just like to say... you're full of shit and don't know what you're talking about.)

    29. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      My hypothesis is that, people who've been cutting back on an essential nutrient for a while do better if they get more of it.

      Thus, if you've been trying the low-fat diet for a while, then your body will appreciate the change when you finally start giving it enough fat.
      If you've been on a low-protein diet (yes, it existed for a while), then your body will appreciate the change when you finally start giving it enough protein.
      If you've been on a low-carb diet for a while, then your body will appreciate the change when you finally start giving it enough carbohydrates.

      I read some scientists a few years back who suggested instead of looking at whether we should cut back on particular nutrients, we should instead look at the quality of the nutrients we are getting. Because all three nutrients are essential.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    30. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Hey, we all have those days. Right?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    31. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Gluten isnt bad for you, unless you have a specific allergy or condition.

      Possibly. However, "vague bad feeling" is a classic sign of constant low-level infection response. So it's entirely possible that gluten isn't really good for anyone despite only a few people being so sensitive to it that they get clearly visible symptoms.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    32. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by ultranova · · Score: 1

      I came to my understanding faced with an incurable terminal illness. We were planning for the funeral until I decided to try to do my own research and try nutritional treatments. It was a truly stunning and miraculous transformation. The disease is still there, and death will come, but it's many years off now, not just a few months, the oxygen tanks are gone because they aren't needed any more, and life has real QUALITY now, even though there are a few things I still can't do.

      Good for you. So... care to give us your disease and specifics of treatment for any fellow sufferers who might benefit from them?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    33. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Fundamental flaw - every nutrient and every poison has a dosage at which it is effective.

      So 10 grams of Vitamin C a day can be considered "high Vitamin C diet". 10 grams of protein a day can be considered "low protein diet". 10 grams of paracetamol a day can be considered "poison".

      Once you realize this, your statement makes zero sense. All three nutrients are essential? Great. What is the amount at which they are effective? No one knows.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    34. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Was a nutritionist involved? Who suggested the change in treatment? How do you know it was the change in food plan, and not some other factor?

      I cant dismiss your claims, and I certainly wouldnt suggest changing a system thats working for you, but to suggest such a change for others generally is gonna need some evidence for how and why such a change would be beneficial.

      There are people who swear by colloidial silver for fixing all manner of illnesses. Im sure some feel better afterwards, but some end up turning blue and I think we can widely recognize that any health effects are generally placebo effect.

    35. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Whatever we recommend on a national level should be purely based on people who get very little exercise.

      We already have calorie guidelines.

      Regardless, thats sort of like saying "well, people smoke, so rather than saying dont smoke if you dont want cancer we should establish a recommended number of cigarettes to minimize cancer".

    36. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Gluten is a core component of bread, something people have been eating for thousands of years.

      If you want to make the claim that it is doing us all bad, you're gonna need some very very good evidence and it would help if you could establish a mechanism of action.

    37. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Not a nutritionist, I'm now under the care of a naturapathic doctor (yes, a practicing MD). There are a number of factors involved, candida overgrowth being a primary one, as well as other parasites I learned to recognize in my stools, although none that the traditional doctors ever suggested testing for (maybe they can't). Believe it or not, there are fungus infections that affect the human body and can cause all kinds of health issues. There were also issues of malabsorbtion of nutrients which supplements and change in diet has helped to correct. The treatment all started with a raw food cleanse over 10 days, and struggling through a lot of pain as my body worked to heal itself, and then efforts were toward building up my immune system.

      The "Grain Belly" is a good place to start to understand the principles. You're absolutely right that these are personalized regimes, but when I see people struggling with weight or the types of chronic issues that I know from my experience that a change in diet can fix, I can't help but proselytize about my own journey.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    38. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      You might also want to check out Nine Foods, and a couple of books you can read are The Juice Lady by Cherie Calom, MS CN Juicing, Fasting, and Detoxing for Life, as well as Natural Therapies for Emphysema and COPD by Robert J Green Jr., ND, which is more specific for my issue.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    39. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I came to my understanding faced with an incurable terminal illness. We were planning for the funeral until I decided to try to do my own research and try nutritional treatments. It was a truly stunning and miraculous transformation. The disease is still there, and death will come, but it's many years off now, not just a few months, the oxygen tanks are gone because they aren't needed any more, and life has real QUALITY now, even though there are a few things I still can't do.

      Good for you. So... care to give us your disease and specifics of treatment for any fellow sufferers who might benefit from them?

      The diagnosis was Pulmonary Fibrosis. It was complicated by existing COPD and eventually a diagnosis of emphysema. I should point out that the nutrition approach was tried only AFTER all traditional treatments have failed. There is no cure available for any of these, and the treatment was primarily massive doses of steroids, both oral and inhaled, as well as supplemental oxygen. The side effects from the steroids became too intolerable to continue that treatment, considering the very limited amount benefit.

      The nutrition treatment started with a detoxifying cleanse, which involved cutting out all solid food and using only juices made from raw foods, starting with coconut oil, lots of organic vegetables (spinach, micro greens, celery, fruits, etc.). Then slowly adding solid food, starting with only raw foods. It took a couple of months to work up to eating chicken again.

      There are 3 books, and a shit-ton of Internet articles we used to come up with the treatment plan. The books were The Juice Lady by Cherie Calom, MS CN Juicing, Fasting, and Detoxing for Life. Natural Therapies for Emphysema and COPD by Robert J Green Jr., ND Overnight Liver Cleanse & Detox Diet by Avery Scott

      I still avoid all grains (except sprouted grains and seeds), as well as all legumes. Refined sugar is also out. Here's a post that covers a good deal about the foods currently in our diet, some of which took several months to work up to. The main thing is to stick to all raw foods until the toxins are cleared up.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    40. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Gluten is a core component of bread, something people have been eating for thousands of years.

      That ignores the fact that for most of that time, bread was made from different types of grain. The wheat that we use today is a dwarf wheat with very high yield. It was developed through selective breeding in the 1950's (Norman Borlaug was awarded a Nobel prize for his work), and is significantly different, genetically, than anything available before. Ancient wheats, that grew wild, had 14 chromosome, while spelt (bread wheat ancestor) is a hexaploid wheat with 42 chromosome.

      I'm not making the claim that somehow all that makes modern wheat inherently bad or dangerous, but you can't claim people have been eating it "for thousands of years", that's just not true. And there have been many other changes to diet in that time as well, including a massive increase in the number of foods that INCLUDE wheat-based processed ingredient. Check the packages on the foods you eat some time.

      Personally, I am a big believer in the "paleo" diets, I think they are the healthiest way to eat. And they don't include bread.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    41. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      A few thousand years is no time at all in evolutionary terms.

      So I assume you're arguing that bread is something we haven't yet evolved to safely digest?

      I agree: I'd go as far as to say that gluten intolerance and diabetes could be considered part of the evolutionary process, weeding out those of us who lack the genes to safely digest high carb, cereal based, diets.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    42. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      The flaw is that I didn't quantify how much you should eat? I think that's something you can figure out......

      All three nutrients are essential? Great. What is the amount at which they are effective? No one knows.

      No, we actually do know. There have been plenty of studies on this topic. It's only controversial to crazy people who follow fad diets.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    43. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had high BP, was on medication that made me feel crappy, doctors always asked about salt intake, but the problem turned out to be MSG, not sodium chloride. Avoiding MSG, my BP came down to normal levels, no medications required at all now. And very true, I put salt on good food and my BP does not go up at all.

    44. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      The leg pains have nothing to do with exercise or DVTs. Statins are known to cause severe muscle damage (rhabdomyolysis) if too much of it stays in your system for too long a period of time. The pharmaceutical companies say that this side effect is relatively rare, but even if the claimed half a percent is correct, that still adds up to a lot of people when you're talking about a medicine that's as overprescribed as statins are.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    45. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Not that YOU didn't quantify, no one really "knows", for stronger definitions of " know ". Plenty of studies? Sure. All addressing different effects of the diet, and all reaching different conclusions.

      If you have some special knowledge on this subject, you could have alerted these people (http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/09/02/0314223/low-carb-diet-trumps-low-fat-diet-in-major-new-study), they wouldn't have wasted their time. You might have received a Nobel prize too.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    46. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by t_ban · · Score: 1

      There was even one guy who had amnesia whenever you took it.

      Hey, do you happen to know of any way to make this kind of spooky action at a distance work for exercising?

      --
      First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. -Gandhi
    47. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      For some reason, every single post I made on this thread was modded "Troll" or "Flamebait"!! WTF? Somebody really hates unapproved opinions about nutrition on here. FDA shill? Big Pharma marketing? Moderators acting badly in any case.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    48. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Personally, I am a big believer in the "paleo" diets, I think they are the healthiest way to eat.

      Because as we know life expectancy has been dropping steadily over the last 2000 years?

    49. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Personally, I am a big believer in the "paleo" diets, I think they are the healthiest way to eat.

      Because as we know life expectancy has been dropping steadily over the last 2000 years?

      touche! jackass

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    50. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      Then slowly adding solid food, starting with only raw foods. It took a couple of months to work up to eating chicken again.

      I'm going to have to pass on any diet that includes raw chicken. I'm also very skeptical of the claim that drinking juice has any benefits that aren't present in just eating whatever the juice came from. Bottled juices are convenient because of the shelf life. If you're sticking a fresh item into a juicer you could have gotten all the same benefits by just sticking it directly in your mouth. Your stomach liquifies everything anyway.

      If you've got a GI disorder that prevents you from digesting or eliminating then you'll need to be on clear fluids and IV but for non-GI disorders the rest of your body doesn't care whether the food was solid or liquid when it entered your mouth. Either way it was broken down into its fundamental constituents before it passed into your bloodstream.

    51. Re:CDC guilty of correlation == causation by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I'm going to have to pass on any diet that includes raw chicken.

      Sorry, I guess I described it wrong. Foods were added back to the diet slowly, from only raw fruits and vegetables and nuts to cooked foods like some brown rice, squash, to eventually adding cooked meats, starting with chicken and eventually beef. This was always organically-raised, pasture-fed chicken and grass-fed and finished beef. Cooking was done very carefully, ensuring meats are cooked to a safe temperature. Of course, eating raw chicken is VERY dangerous for ANYONE!!!

      I'm also very skeptical of the claim that drinking juice has any benefits that aren't present in just eating whatever the juice came from. Bottled juices are convenient because of the shelf life. If you're sticking a fresh item into a juicer you could have gotten all the same benefits by just sticking it directly in your mouth. Your stomach liquifies everything anyway.

      If you're getting juice from a bottle, it's been pasteurized (cooked), which means it doesn't have the same nutrients. The fresher the food is, the more nutrients it contains. Cooking to the high temperatures required for canning (bottle) destroys a lot of essential nutrients. And I'm afraid you're wrong that just eating it outright results in the same ability to absorb nutrients from food. Birds feed their babies pre-digested food because it is easier to digest. Juicing breaks down the cells and makes the food easier to absorb, and it provides a denser amount of nutrients meaning you can take in more raw juiced food than you can eat whole.

      If you've got a GI disorder that prevents you from digesting or eliminating then you'll need to be on clear fluids and IV but for non-GI disorders the rest of your body doesn't care whether the food was solid or liquid when it entered your mouth. Either way it was broken down into its fundamental constituents before it passed into your bloodstream.

      The human body doesn't have a "on/off" switch in the GI tract that allows it to work perfectly or not at all. It's a very complicated ecosystem requiring symbiotic relationships with various types of bacteria and phages. It's a delicate balance. malabsorption syndrome runs the gambit from a single nutrient can't be absorbed to what you've described where almost all nutrients pass through without the body being able to process them. For instance, pernicious anemia is often caused lack of the ability to absorb vitamin B12. You may be able to absorb everything else, but this single malabsorption issue can cause lots of problems, and is often misdiagnosed. There are many others commonly recognized.

      The assertion that everything you eat is "Either way it was broken down into its fundamental constituents" simply shows a fundamental misunderstanding of nutrition. Sure, that happens before it enters your bloodstream, but the process getting to that point is very complex, and if nutrients you need are simply passing through, or are being used up by the wrong mix of bacteria and phages in your gut, it can cause all kinds of health issues.

      Juicing raw foods can help, as can the process of the raw food cleanse that can help purge overgrowth of bacteria that can cause issues. Here is some information on the benefits of juicing your food vs. simply eating it raw. And if you're really interested in finding out why a bottled juice is not going to provide the same benefits as fresh foods juiced and consumed immediately, this article lays it out pretty well.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
  3. Great news, everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now I can go back to ramen noodles for lunch!

  4. Obviously. by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 2

    Of course. I read about this quite a few years ago in a book called Global Warming and Other Bollocks. It has a chapter on salt. I'm still recovering from being told that egg yolks are as bad for me as smoking, though I don't eat 20 eggs a day (or smoke any more), it turns out that actually they're probably only bad for people with heart disease or diabetes.

    Anyone losing the will to live yet? I could go on...

    1. Re:Obviously. by dosius · · Score: 1

      I know, it's like nobody can make up their damn minds what's good for you, what's bad for you, how about, if we lived well on it 100, 150, 200 years ago it's prolly still damn fine today?

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    2. Re:Obviously. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Enjoy your 30 year life expectancy, I guess.

    3. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get labrynthitis when I eat too much salt. So I ask for less salt on my fries at fast food and I get the 50% salted Lays potato chips. In places where they can't "do that", I have to brush/shake the salt off of my fries (at this point, because I can no longer stand the fully-salted taste). The food tastes better (it doesn't reach the "chemical taste" levels of salt) and it is possibly less addictive than its fully-salted family.

    4. Re:Obviously. by schitso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh, infant mortality? Predators actually being an issue? Disease? Constant strife? No, go ahead and just ignore those.

    5. Re:Obviously. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Actually they do and can but no one wants to listen. People just want a quick fix. It's called a well balanced diet and exercise..

    6. Re:Obviously. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      LIfe expectancy at birth doesn't really apply to many slashdotters - not many of us are under one year of age.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:Obviously. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Exact quote of the Grand Parent in case you forgot:

      if we lived well on it 100, 150, 200 years ago it's prolly still damn fine today?

      100 years ago, we didn't live well. How you rationalize and dismiss that isn't the question.

    8. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we killed all the bears

    9. Re:Obviously. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      But yet it doesn't stop them from crying like one.... The baby whining here on slashdot overshadows 4chan.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What bugs me is when I can taste the sugar in a hamburger bun. And you can't shake that off.

      (Well, sure, you could "shake" the whole bun off, but you know what I mean. Someone was sure to point that out, so now you've been denied of your attempt at pedantry.)

    11. Re:Obviously. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      That's not really the issue.

      If, 150 years ago, the average life expectancy was 30-40 years, but the average human level of general health in those 30-40 years was better than the same in the first 30-40 years of modern humans's lives, then you could say that something we did back 150 years ago was better and we were healthier and living well on whatever we were doing.

      In short: strain, work, lack of surgery and vaccines, poor understanding of disease, bad hygiene, the like, could take a toll; but, meanwhile, people have healthy hearts, strong livers, good blood flow, clear blood vessels, low blood pressure, strong lungs. In such a situation, we could conclude with relative certainty that our lower constant work load, lower exposure to disease, and greater access to health services has provided the greater lifespan; and everything else is suspect, and something in that pile of everything was better off 150 years ago.

      This is relatively easy to explore. All we need are dissection records or dissection of well-preserved corpses from the era, so as to examine the state of organs. Finding the source material is difficult. We don't, however, need to take a time machine back and put people on EKG and take blood tests and blood pressure.

    12. Re:Obviously. by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Egg whites have one of the best amounts and balance of amino acids and other proteins, and the yolks are full of antioxidants and other great stuff as is needed to create life. I have also been told by several different wellness teachers at my Uni that whole eggs are great for you unless you have a pre-existing health issue. Kind of like saying peanuts are bad for you because some people have allergies.

    13. Re:Obviously. by sjames · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently, you kan't read. The very link you posted explained that it was largely due to infant mortality and lack of sanitation. It wasn't from eating egg yolks and salt and it certainly wasn't from failing to substitute transfats for toxic butter.

    14. Re:Obviously. by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      when I shake off I eject sugars and proteins too. you're not doing it correctly

    15. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It turns out that getting final and reliable answers to those questions is really hard. There are a tremendous number of variables involved, and they have complex interactions. Each substance is simultaneously good for you and bad for you, with a host of other factors (genetics, other dietary elements, environmental elements and so on) that change the ratios of good-to-bad. Then, on top of that, every food item is a complex mix of such substances.

      Nothing in any of this confutes the age-old wisdom of intake moderation and exercise. People who do that tend to come out on top regardless of the specifics of what they ingest.

    16. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up, Meg

    17. Re:Obviously. by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Toxic butter?

    18. Re:Obviously. by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Could it be because the wimps didn't procreate, or if they did, their offspring would likely not reach an age where they could procreate themselves?
      Nowadays, with the advancements in medicine, you could live long enough to procreate and have offspring with genetically bad health and risks of various diseases, which 100+ years ago were being removed from the gene pool automatically.

      TL;DR: people who a century ago would have died at young age now live enough to generate offspring with inherited bad genetic traits.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    19. Re:Obviously. by nytes · · Score: 1

      You know. The stuff made of cream from venomous cows.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    20. Re:Obviously. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      You're assigning a human judgement "bad" to the previous survivability of genetic traits. Do you understand what's wrong with that, or do I gotta type out a million paragraph digest?

    21. Re:Obviously. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I always lash my venomous cows, so I can get toxic whipped cream.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    22. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read a book like that once. It's title was Audacity of Hope.

    23. Re:Obviously. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      People consistently overlook the fact that lower life expectancy figures given for the past are almost entirely do to mass deaths by babies and children up to 12.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    24. Re:Obviously. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So we need average infant and child mortality, and average adult lifespan?

    25. Re:Obviously. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      From what I have read going back to the time of the ancient Greeks it seems if you made it out of childhood, weren't a solider, and lived in the city or surrounding stable area as a free person you would likely live into your 70s. So over the last ~3000 years we really haven't progressed that much if your made it to adulthood (let's say ~15%), but we have made great strides in preventing people form dying before the reached adulthood.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    26. Re:Obviously. by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      LIfe expectancy at birth doesn't really apply to many slashdotters - not many of us are under one year of age.

      Boy was I fooled.

    27. Re:Obviously. by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Please start typing, because I make no sense of what you just said.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    28. Re:Obviously. by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      I always lash my venomous cows, so I can get toxic whipped cream.

      Yes, I've heard the English follow this practice, but they also let the wounds from the lashing begin to heal on some of their grain-fed cattle, producing Cornish clotted cream.

    29. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you're right. Everything is ok if you replace 'bad' with 'deadly' or 'harmful'. What's really wrong here is that you didn't understand a simple turn of phrase...

    30. Re:Obviously. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Just need to be aware that when they say "life expectancy was 45" what it really means is...

      It wasn't a logan's run world.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    31. Re:Obviously. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      From American high school history, Freedom was invented in the 1700s, in the new world.

    32. Re:Obviously. by sjames · · Score: 1

      More or less. all through the '70s you couldn't watch TV at all without hearing all about how butter and the cholesterol in it would kill you so use margarine.

      Yes, margarine with all that trans-fat goodness!

    33. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      U kant rite, just like u kant reed. Go ahead and try to type us something though, moron.

    34. Re:Obviously. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you run your cocksucker as much as the rest. What's your point?

    35. Re:Obviously. by doom · · Score: 1

      Actually they do and can but no one wants to listen. People just want a quick fix. It's called a well balanced diet and exercise.. Reply to This Parent Share

      On the contrary, the fix is exercise and a well-balanced diet.

    36. Re:Obviously. by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

      If, 150 years ago, the average life expectancy was 30-40 years, but the average human level of general health in those 30-40 years was better than the same in the first 30-40 years of modern humans's lives, then you could say that something we did back 150 years ago was better and we were healthier and living well on whatever we were doing.

      I believe that 150 years ago you were 'healthier'... IF:

      1. you didn't live in a big city, OR were upriver. This in the time before water distribution networks with chlorine treatment and build-out of sanitary sewer projects, sewage treatment to help the poor folk downriver to avoid cholera. This is not strictly geographic. Thanks to some awesome engineering New York City is now 'upriver' because of their aqueducts.

      2. you did not succumb as a child to smallpox or malaria. Vaccine and antibiotics kick ass here. I would also like to give a shout-out to my bud dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane a.k.a. DDT who cleared malaria out of the southern US states. Completely. The ongoing tragedy of malaria-affected children today is being marginalized by folks who parrot ddtcancerbad but fail to apply historic perspective to the (irresponsibly) massive amount that was used for agriculture and the (small) amount required for effective mosquito control.

      For example, chlorine kills, but 1-3 parts per million of it placed in your drinking water... so long as the treatment plant properly filters organic material to discourage formation of trihalomethanes... just saved your life.

      3. your teeth were ok through adulthood and when they became diseased you yanked 'em out quick. Gingivitis and its slow poisoning is a true killer. I think there are many people in a poorer general state of health today because their dentists are trying to "save" their teeth.

      4. you did not have one of the (far fewer then) occupations that allowed you to sit more than half the day. These days a good percent sits while awake, working or Internet or television. I think this, more then obesity, is a death sentence. We were not evolved to sit! You don't have to pump iron or run Marathons. Just don't sit down!

      There, some Significant Factors that do not include salt or fat or blood pressure or food quality.

      --
      <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
    37. Re:Obviously. by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

      If it was indeed (sucrose) sugar, you probably could not taste it, mostly it helps darken the tan. High-Fructose Corn Syrup has a nasty, cloying after-taste that has ruined a great majority of what were once edible food items. I have to cook a lot from scratch these days to avoid disgusting ersatz "food" products. Read the ingredient list, most products also use hydrogenated oils which seem to be the reason most of y'all are so fucking fat. I have eschewed that particular by-product since the 70's because of the superior flavor of butter, but I think my health (certainly my waistline) is better off for it.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    38. Re:Obviously. by JimFive · · Score: 1

      Isn't the entire point of this article, and nutrition research in general, that we don't have a clue what constitutes "a well balanced diet". It's all very cute and snarky to say "eat right and exercise" but when the topic is "What does it mean to eat right?" it isn't a very useful response.
      --
      JimFive

      --
      Please stop using the word theory when you mean hypothesis.
  5. Implications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Clearly, this indicates that the science behind anthropogenic global warming is flawed.

    1. Re:Implications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, called it: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5685483&cid=47881037.

    2. Re: Implications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoosh

  6. I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by scsirob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just about everything that is bad for you today is being negated a few years later. Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. So I will just continue to live my life and enjoy it to the fullest. If something kills me, at least I had a good time.

    --
    To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    1. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by kamapuaa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cigarettes are undeniably bad. So are trans-fats, alcohol overconsumption, and too much stress.

      The issue is that health publications yry to extend everything into being undeniably bad, on the scale of smoking, when in fact the food or habit may only be bad in certsin cases. One current theory on salt is that diabetics, the overweight, and blacks are higher risk groups for salt being linked to blood pressure, but for the large majority of people there is no association. Of course that's boring health advice, people like to hear something strong like "quit now and live longer," so health claims get wildly exaggerated.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by neurovish · · Score: 1

      Just about everything that is bad for you today is being negated a few years later. Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. So I will just continue to live my life and enjoy it to the fullest. If something kills me, at least I had a good time.

      I remember that one...I was in middle school at the time. In response, I refused to wear denim for a couple years until I realized that it really didn't make any sense sometime in high school.

    3. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually only binge drinking is bad for you. I dare you to find a study showing trans-fats are actually bad and why. Most health policy is political and completely BS and what information exists is usually wrapped in political correctness and conspiracies to stop conspiracy thinking (ie. don't single out a race/body type with different health issues, make everyone worry).

    4. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Charliemopps · · Score: 0

      Just about everything that is bad for you today is being negated a few years later. Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. So I will just continue to live my life and enjoy it to the fullest. If something kills me, at least I had a good time.

      You're not reading research. You're reading news articles. There are unscrupulous "journalists" out there that spend all day scanning research journals for studies they can turn into shocking stories to get clicks.

      The author of this article is Mandy Oaklander. Could she possibly be one of these bad journalists? I don't know...
      Lets look at the titles of her other articles and find out:

      The Link Between Sunny Days and Suicide
      Eating Fish May Save Your Hearing
      Prediabetes Increases Cancer Risk By 15%
      Sleeping On Animal Fur Can Lower Asthma Risk
      Your Home Is Covered In Bacteria
      How Instant Noodles Can Hurt Your Heart
      ...certainly seems alarmist and ridiculous to me.

      There are decades of research that have gone into linking salt to high blood pressure. Could that be wrong? Sure... but this is one study, by one group. Give it a year before you start downing bags full of pretzels.

    5. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Funny

      cigarettes aren't necessarily bad, just don't smoke them.

    6. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by itsenrique · · Score: 2

      American Heart Association stance on trans fats: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/... . They are just used because they are cheap and highly shelf stable. Are they on the same realm as smoking? Not quite, but people "like you" were probably the last to admit smoking was bad.

    7. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      And not ONLY binge drinking is bad for you. We define a binge in the US as more than 5 drinks. But we call moderation 1-3 depending on gender and weight. Drinking 5 beers a night if you are a skinny woman is very likely to have detrimental effects, albeit not dramatic ones.

    8. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      inb4 this earns you an "Insightful".

    9. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      You're not reading research. You're reading news articles. There are unscrupulous "journalists" out there that spend all day scanning research journals for studies they can turn into shocking stories to get clicks.

      Journalists are at fault, but they're not the only ones. See PHD Comics.

      The research might have said "people who wear tight pants have a 1.2% greater risk of cancer given this study and these error parameters." After the study passed through the various layers of reporting, though, it turned into JEANS CAUSE CANCER!!!!!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ACCC says it tested a number of clothing items for dangerous azo dyes after being tipped off by the National Industrial Chemicals Notification and Assessment Scheme.

      The tests uncovered clothes with high concentrations of the dyes, sparking recalls of more than 121,000 items from retailers including Myer, Target, Rivers, Trade Secret and Just Jeans.

      "The ACCC identified a number of items as containing unacceptable concentrations of the hazardous dye," the ACCC said in a statement.

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-08/cancer-jean-risk/5438614

    11. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One current theory on salt is that diabetics, the overweight, and blacks are higher risk groups for salt being linked to blood pressure, but for the large majority of people there is no association.

      You forgot one more group. The elderly.

      The thing is, if you are not overconsuming salt, then salt is not the problem. But if you are, then reducing salt *could help* reduce high blood pressure. There are population studies that show salt overconsumption is a risk factor for HBP, especially in the elderly.

      Of course that's boring health advice, people like to hear something strong like "quit now and live longer," so health claims get wildly exaggerated.

      Something to do with not understand statistics.

    12. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Tupper · · Score: 2

      http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/truth-wont-admit-drinking-healthy-87891/

      Even women who drink 6 drinks per day have lower overall mortality than teetotalers.

    13. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      One current theory on salt is that diabetics, the overweight, and blacks are higher risk groups for salt being linked to blood pressure, but for the large majority of people there is no association.

      Right - genetics (and even epigenetics) play a large role. There are SNP's (single nucleotide polymorphisms) that can make a huge difference in some cases!

      All of these broad-brush health advice "rules" are going to seem very quaint when we have massively-available cheap sequencing and you can go to a doc once a year to discuss the results of your latest genetic and epigenetic profile and make some alterations based on your own body and its current state.

      The current guidelines may be the best approximation we have right now, but they're always wrong in a non-trivial percentage of the population.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    14. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by xeos · · Score: 1

      Clever!! I do wonder what good use they could be put too, though :-) Nicotine is actually a pretty fantastic insecticide, though there is some concern about the bees.

    15. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the question everyone really wants to know the answer to is what Dianetics says about the role salt plays with HBP?

    16. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean this American Heart Association, whose stance is to limit salt intake? If the AHA is wrong about salt, then perhaps they are wrong about trans fats too...

      http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/HealthyEating/Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs-About-Sodium_UCM_306840_Article.jsp

      The American Heart Association recommends that Americans consume less than 1,500 mg/day sodium, which is the level with the greatest effect on blood pressure.

    17. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by nytes · · Score: 1

      Eat them like french fries instead.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    18. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by naasking · · Score: 2

      Cigarettes are undeniably bad. So are trans-fats, alcohol overconsumption, and too much stress.

      The existence of stressors is not necessarily bad. How you deal with stress is more important.

    19. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by slew · · Score: 1

      Just about everything that is bad for you today is being negated a few years later. Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. So I will just continue to live my life and enjoy it to the fullest. If something kills me, at least I had a good time.

      I think you might be alluding to the two theories about jeans and cancer.

      One theory was that azo-dyes( commonly used in the pigments of cheap denim jean brands and leather products) might emit cancer causing aromatic amines. Basically this "research" led to a partial ban on the use of certain AZO-dyes and it's likely that we are safer as a result. You can now wear jeans w/o worrying about that problem at least.

      The other theory was that wearing tight jeans (or other tight pants in general) seems to be correlated with a higher incidence of testicular cancer in males and yeast infections in women (potentially creating a greater risk for cancer). Apparently this theory was debunked, although tight pants are still responsible for reduced fertility (in both men and women)

      Perhaps this reduced fertility will allow you to live your life and enjoy it to the fullest. ;^)

    20. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by tsqr · · Score: 1

      Clever!! I do wonder what good use they could be put too, though :-)

      Broken in half (after removing the filter) and inserted in the nostrils, they're pretty effective at filtering out (or maybe masking) odors that would otherwise make you nauseous.

    21. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      But real tobacco (ala pipes and cigars and hand rolled cigarettes) is awesome and if you only smoke a couple times a year, your risk is essentially the same as non smokers.

      If you ever have one, you can understand why people smoked before all the weird stuff with commercial cigarettes.

      Overeating is higher in risk than light smoking (less than a cigarette per day).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    22. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      J Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. .

      Are you sure it wasn't "genes"? ;)

    23. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just about everything that is bad for you today is being negated a few years later. Can't find the link today, but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer. So I will just continue to live my life and enjoy it to the fullest. If something kills me, at least I had a good time.

      Yes and no. If there's a study saying something is "good", it was probably done because it isn't logically intuitive that it is good. It will more than likely also be bad at some point.

      It's very easy to know what is good for you. Decent and consistent sleep, more natural and less processed foods, moderation and variety of food, exercise, and generally avoiding extremes.

      Anything that requires study to decide if it's good, probably doesn't make enough sense to make a life choice out of it.

    24. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by sootman · · Score: 1

      > at one point "research" showed that jeans
      > were responsible for higher risk of cancer

      Erm, are you sure that wasn't "genes"? ;-)

      Favorite line from a comedian long ago: "I'm not sure about research, though. 'We took a 4-ounce lab rat, fed him 22 pounds of saccharine, and he developed a tumor!' Well, NO SHIT!"

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    25. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you sample a random number source and choose which samples to discard, you can make many non random patterns appear. Without a rigorous framework like in physics, research is at the mercy of human ego drives to big up your own contribution by whatever means make you successful. This game of idea marketing is rife in the diet world.

    26. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some kinds of stress can help you live longer, or at least improve your health. Examples:

      1) fasting or low-caloric diet;
      2) marriage;
      3) exercise.

    27. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Cigarettes are undeniably bad. So are trans-fats, alcohol overconsumption, and too much stress.

      The alcohol one is quite tricky. Yes, it's true that health outcomes for heavy alcohol consumption are often somewhat worse that moderate drinkers (in most studies). But there have been quite a few studies that show that heavy drinkers still do better than those who abstain completely. I wouldn't quite go as far as recommendations in this article, but the consensus of many, many studies that have included hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of people is that people who drink have better health outcomes, and heavy drinkers still do a lot better than abstainers.

      So, is "alcohol overconsumption" "undeniably bad"? I don't know, but the evidence seems to suggest that it's less bad than other seemingly "better" choices, like not drinking at all.

      (Note that these studies do NOT say that alcohol is the DIRECT cause of the better health outcomes, only that it is highly correlated. Most scientists don't think the effect is so much about alcohol protecting the body so much as it guards against depression, alleviates stress, helps social interactions which contribute toward better mental and physical health, etc.)

    28. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is that health researchers yry to extend everything into being undeniably bad, on the scale of smoking, when in fact the food or habit may only be bad in certsin cases.

      FTFY. This is because health research (like so many other areas of science) has devolved into publish-or-perish/follow-the-funding mad dash. It also doesn't help that news outlets like to promote the science of "everything-you-know-is-wrong" since it gives them something to talk about on slow news days.

    29. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by RussR42 · · Score: 1

      I can't decide if you are serious or if this is some clever joke.

    30. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by antdude · · Score: 1

      /. is bad too. :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    31. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      but at one point "research" showed that jeans were responsible for higher risk of cancer

      I honestly can't tell whether you misspelled "genes" or there's actually a study that shows there's a correlation between cancer and wearing denim trousers.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    32. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      cigarettes aren't necessarily bad, just don't smoke them.

      This seems to work reasonably well for Sam Farha.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    33. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      I occasionally smoke tobacco to help ward off headaches. It's a temporary effect (maybe 30 to 45 minutes) but it happens quickly, and gives other drugs a chance to kick in. I only need a quarter of a cigarette to achieve this effect, because I have essentially no tolerance to nicotine. It will take me a week or two to finish one cigarette, which I quench with water and store in a jar.

      I asked a friend of mine who is an emergency room doctor what the health risks associated with this are, and he said there are essentially none. So long as you don't abuse the body enough to overwhelm its repair mechanisms, there is no lasting damage. (Actually he said there is one risk -- I might burn my fingers.)

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    34. Re:I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I honestly can tell you're a lazy fuck. How about you google some shit sometime?

    35. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      American Heart Association stance on trans fats:

      Is this the same American Heart Association that had a negative stance on salt?

      Why the hell do we care what they say again?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    36. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I will only note that Clinton's intern found a use for rolled tobacco products other than smoking them.

  7. Consensus by dcw3 · · Score: 0

    This is one of the many examples of why I don't care about consensus opinion. Show us evidence, or go away.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
    1. Re:Consensus by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Then you just conveniently forget about the last time someone provided you with evidence. You just got through making this exact same argument, and someone dumped a ton of evidence on you. This is evidence you could easily have found yourself, and yet you repeatedly use the burden of proof to ignore the facts you've already seen presented.

      How many times do you expect someone else to present the evidence to you?

    2. Re:Consensus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FATALITY

      i kan reed wins!

    3. Re:Consensus by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      I would mod you up. I don't see why they can't simply test the hypothesis by feeding some animals or people more salt. Easiest thing to test ever.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    4. Re:Consensus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure you "kan reed"?

      If you'll go back to the link you supplied, you'll clearly see a response from me thanking that individual. I believe I did so for another, and have spent some quality time reading up on AGW for the first time since I had a little free time during vacation, and for the record have so far found no logical reason to disbelieve in AGW. As for easily, maybe you're better at finding those items than I am, but as I stated in my original post, my "brief" search turned up nothing useful.

      But, that is not the point I was making, only that consensus opinion proves nothing. It doesn't for AGW, it doesn't here, it didn't for stomach ulcers, Iraq, and on and on.

    5. Re:Consensus by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      That "point" you make, though, is essentially an argument from ignorance. "I haven't looked at the evidence, thus it's not true" is a good way to be wrong a lot.

  8. Water Retention? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    But it does help with water retention, right? And you would imagine that as the body retained more water it would become generally more pressurised?

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Water Retention? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You can imagine lots of things (and please, keep it to yourself). Whether or not you would be correct is another thing.

      No, you're not correct in this instance. It's complicated

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Water Retention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why the hypothesis is plausible. But it's important to find out what's really happening.

    3. Re:Water Retention? by oodaloop · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I thought this was well documented. Societies with very low salt intake have low blood pressure, like tribes in the Amazon. Societies with high salt intake have high blood pressure (an area of Japan comes to mind). Lowering an individual's salt intake lowers blood pressure. Now, the salt you put on your food constitutes something like 10% of total salt intake. You need to avoid foods with high salt levels, and these days that's almost everything.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:Water Retention? by abies · · Score: 1

      Hmm and if you fart, your blood pressure decreases? Because it is obvious that that compressed gas in bowels was getting your 'generally more pressurised'? There can be even a correlation between holding your fart in public getting your blood pressure higher ("Not now, not now, she will think I'm horrible").

    5. Re:Water Retention? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      not true. Just avoid crap that comes in a box, can, or plastic bag and you are golden.

      Fresh meat, veggies, fruits, and grains have zero added salt. It's the lazy people's pre packaged crap that has salt dumped in by the truckload.

      Oh and good Whiskey... That has very little salt in it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:Water Retention? by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 1

      Societies with very low salt intake have low blood pressure

      correlation

      Societies with high salt intake have high blood pressure

      correlation

      Lowering an individual's salt intake lowers blood pressure.

      If you are referring to an actual intervention study, I'd love to see it. For 99% of people eating a standard American diet, lowering salt intake will inevitably involve cutting out a bunch of processed, pre-packaged crap from their diet. Most likely if there was a reduction in blood pressure it was because of the sugar or trans fat that was inadvertently cut out along with the salt.

    7. Re:Water Retention? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      People living in countries with a high salt consumption—such as Japan—also tend to have high blood pressure and more strokes. But as a paper pointed out several years later in the American Journal of Hypertension, scientists had little luck finding such associations when they compared sodium intakes within populations, which suggested that genetics or other cultural factors might be the culprit.

    8. Re:Water Retention? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      societies with *high industrialization* have higher blood pressure, salt doesn't matter.

    9. Re:Water Retention? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Or the lifestyle in the Amazon involves a great deal more exercise than the lifestyle in Japan.

    10. Re:Water Retention? by sjames · · Score: 1

      beans beans....

    11. Re:Water Retention? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Societies where most people die before they get old have a lower incidence of age-related diseases.

    12. Re:Water Retention? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I'd add frozen veggies into there too. They have all of the advantages of fresh with a lower risk of spoilage.

      Canned veggies, though, should be your last resort. Only use those when no other veggies are available.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    13. Re:Water Retention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Direct correlation is evidence of a causal relationship. For some reason, you seem to think that calling something a "correlation" is a direct refutation. That demonstrates an extreme lack of understanding.

      You're right, though. Nobody has ever had high blood pressure, been told to cut their salt intake, and seen it lower! NO! FUCK THAT MEDICAL SCIENCE SHIT! Instead, let's do a poll! Let's poll a bunch of French people, and ask how their diets are and then take their blood pressure! Statistics are much more scientific than the scientific method!

      Huhr duhr they just eat fewer processed fuds!

      Except they don't. They'll choose the "low sodium" version of their crackers, chips, and packaged breads, and use more garlic/pepper on their chicken. The CDC loves to hoard these sorts of studies, so if you want specifics, you can go ask them.

    14. Re:Water Retention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're good for the heart...

    15. Re:Water Retention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you had easy access 24/7 to tentacle porn, you'd be active every day.

    16. Re:Water Retention? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Fresh meat, veggies, fruits, and grains have zero added salt

      Not true. Have you ever tried to buy poultry that wasn't injected with salt solution? Only the premium, expensive stuff comes in that option. Salt makes the meat take on more water, so it weighs more (and costs more).

    17. Re:Water Retention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not true. Just avoid crap that comes in a box, can, or plastic bag and you are golden.

      Fresh meat, veggies, fruits, and grains have zero added salt.

      fresh chicken often has salt added to it.

    18. Re:Water Retention? by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      I'd add frozen veggies into there too. They have all of the advantages of fresh with a lower risk of spoilage. Canned veggies, though, should be your last resort. Only use those when no other veggies are available.

      That's a very good point. When fresh veggies are frozen, most of the enzymes will remain alive (reanimate when thawed), where in cans they're dead. I'd like to point out that it's all in how you cook these veggies. Steaming until just warm throughout is best. If you're going to boil the veggies, canned or frozen doesn't matter.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    19. Re:Water Retention? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Wrong, Canned has a crapload of Sodium added.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    20. Re:Water Retention? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "Not true. Have you ever tried to buy poultry that wasn't injected with salt solution?"

      Yup do it every week at the local meat guy, he get's his from the local amish farm. price is only slightly higher than the cage farms. You have to just look for a good source.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    21. Re:Water Retention? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I can guarantee you not everyone has that option. I can buy a whole chicken at the store for $0.69/lb. now and then, but if I tried to go somewhere else, the price starts at $5/lb. I don't know how that's slightly higher.

    22. Re:Water Retention? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      " I can buy a whole chicken at the store for $0.69/lb."

      That's not chicken at that price... Around here the pr-packaged "TYSON" crap is $3.95 a pound...
      Sorry dude but you are eating squirrel or muskrat at that price.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    23. Re:Water Retention? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I don't pay regular price. Tyson sells at Aldi for $0.69 now and then for a whole chicken.

  9. No pun intended, but by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    I'll take this with a grain of salt. Many years ago, "they" said the same thing about chocolate and greasy foods regarding acne breakouts. It was pretty evident to me and every single person I've ever known, including my own dermatologist (back in the day) that this was totally off-base wishful thinking, and the old "myth" was absolutely correct, whatever the biological mechanisms involved. The study was seriously flawed.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    1. Re:No pun intended, but by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Informative

      The original study linking sodium to high blood pressure was to feed a rat an intake equivalent to 500g of salt in a human per day. Humans are safe up to 6g of sodium intake per day; salt is a lot more than 10% sodium by mass.

    2. Re:No pun intended, but by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of the saccharin studies in the '70s. Anyway, I could've been more clear before, the study I consider most flawed was the acne one.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  10. Stress? by zifn4b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can tell you from personal experience having been a physical fitness health nut and also having gone through prolong periods of enormous stress that the two are undeniably linked. When you're under stress, you have fight or flight response. Several chemicals such as cortisol and adrenaline are produced in your body. When you're under chronic stress, you have this type of constant sense of this. It depletes resources in your body differently than when you're relaxed. It also causes you to store more body fat because when we were in the wild the environment stress response could be associated with food scarcity.

    The time in my life when I was in the best shape of my life was when I was under the least amount of stress. I had low blood pressure, cholesterol, LDL/HDL, triglycerides, everything. My GP was cheering me on.

    Get your stress under control and focus on having a healthy lifestyle and everything else will sort itself out. The problem in America is that we are a culture that pushes inordinate amounts of stress on our citizens. Where UK citizens would take a month long holiday every year because of the generous vacation time afforded by most European countries, the United States doesn't guarantee any paid vacation or sick time. And then we wonder why compared to other countries our citizens are significantly more tired, burnt out and less healthy.

    --
    We'll make great pets
    1. Re:Stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      zifn4b wins. Close the thread.

    2. Re:Stress? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is the only way to reduce stress is to tell the boss to stuff the job up his rear end, and go live on a homestead in the woods.

      Although my stress went way down by simply no longer reading or listening to the news.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Stress? by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      Or thought of another way, the problem is that we don't have enough labor protections to get even a guaranteed 2 weeks if you're full time. Let alone that 3 weeks to a month it takes to really mellow out. Sometimes I see more Europeans at my favorite state forest than Americans, let a lone Floridians. We just don't have a culture of recreation and relaxation in the same sense they do, and its very hard to convince some people there really is no point working people to the bone.

    4. Re:Stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you from personal experience having been a physical fitness health nut and also having gone through prolong periods of enormous stress that the two are undeniably linked.

      I can tell you from personal experience having been a mom and and also having gone through prolonged periods of believing I'm right that vaccines are undeniably linked to autism.

      -Jenny M.

      (Humans have spent millennia thinking what they "just know" from personal experience is medically relevant. This attitude kills people. Try shutting your flaphole and listening to the experts for a change? Your stressball-to-fitness-nut lifestyle changes tweaked a gazillion biological variables at once. You have zero clue which one actually caused the drop in BP)

    5. Re:Stress? by jafac · · Score: 1

      The problem with this whole "stress" hypothesis, is that I've heard many medical professionals pronounce that I, or some other person's underlying medical condition was caused by "stress". Unfortunately, exactly ZERO of these pronouncements were driven by hard data: (blood test reporting levels of "stress" hormones, or whatever other indicator you'd like to use).

      "Getting stress under control" is such an abstract pronouncement for MOST people, it is not only useless, but probably does more harm than good, because then the Doctor gets to charge you his exorbitant fee for doing doctorly-things, while pretty much invoking this "stress" voodoo, with absolutely no scientific basis. Absolutely NOBODY, can control the quantity of cortisol and adrenaline squirting from their glands. Are there things that a person can do, which have a good chance of reducing these hormones in their body? Sure. Does that work as a cure for stress? Who knows? Lets see data and cause-and-effect, and for that matter, let's see actual test-results that can tell me whether I'm really under stress, or if my doctor just thinks so.

      I don't doubt that stress plays a role in some of these illnesses and conditions. I am just not prepared to accept it at some doctor's word, that their irrational belief in the "stress fairy" is enough to be valid medical advice in all cases.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  11. But but... by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

    those scientists were certain that salt was evil, bad, bad, harmful! Don't blow up my world view like this! Whenever the scientific community says something is so, it is so!

  12. Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Moof123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Way too many fad conclusions come and go in science, and especially with food. Eggs are bad, eggs are good, fat is bad, fat is good, carbs are good, carbs are bad, resveritol cures all, resveritol no better than placebo, Dr. Oz is a genius, Dr. Oz is a pocklining schill....

    In the end it seems that if you wait about 10 years almost every headline on health gets contradicted, then thar contradiction gets at least qualified another 10 years after that.

    Nothing so far has done better than simply trying to aim for eating plenty of real food with moderation on the highly processed stuff, and moderation on the calorie dense stuff.

    The one thing about salt is that it does make stuff tasty, often the highly processed stuff, making it easy to overdo it. Avoiding salt sort of automatically helps one to cut out the heavily processed foods.

    1. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. Salt in this case is not the direct cause of High blood pressure but is an indirect factor. Salt can cause weight gain which directly affects BMI.

    2. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >Salt can cause weight gain which directly affects BMI.

      Do you have any data to support your claim? It's new to me and I have been paying attention.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    3. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Salt does not cause weight gain.

    4. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, moderation of calorie intake has positive effects? No way! What an empty post.

    5. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      Bingo on processing though. I've seen some (sorry, this was years ago) pretty interesting studies done in the 20s-30s showing what happened when processed food was introduced to large populations and it looked pretty damning. I have yet to see any evidence that eating the more processed version of ANY grain is as good as an unprocessed version. Sugar, the ultimate refined already a junk food naturally, is probably one of the worst. The problem is how it can end up giving you type 2 diabetes, and how you basically cant get type 2 diabetes without it. Diabetes effects every cell in the body.

    6. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Dr. Oz has always been a shill hiding behind his credentials to tout scam artists by proxy.

      The anti-salt propaganda has as much basis as the "wisdom" of drinking eight glasses of water a day. It became a thing everyone "knows" is true without questioning if there is any factual support. Nobody has ever demonstrated a mechanism for how salt intake causes heart disease. All you ever get is a lot of hand waving and vague statistics collected from people who already have advanced CV disease.

      Short of drinking excessive amounts of salt water your kidneys will do their job and maintain isotonic balance by pissing away any salt your body doesn't need. Unless you have compromised renal function there is no substantiated reason to moderate salt intake.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    7. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Salt can cause weight gain

      Interesting. What other crazy-ass shit do you believe?

    8. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 2

      Actually you are correct. It's a miss understand by most people including myself. The salt itself only causes temporary bloating but it comes down to what contains salt. Most salty foods are usually packed with calories so as a rule of thumb diet clinics have often beaten salt on the head but the real problem is the food itself.

      By the sounds of it the only real damage done by salt is kidney damage and that is if you eat too much of it.

    9. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      You are correct. It is a miss conception that I fell into.

    10. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >By the sounds of it the only real damage done by salt is kidney damage and that is if you eat too much of it.

      Actually too little salt will kill you. Too much salt (in the normal range of dietary input) has no detectable detrimental effect. A 10 ton block of salt on your head will kill you, providing you're in a suitable strong gravitational field.

      Any claim I've seen of salt causing kidney damage has been thoroughly debunked.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    11. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      This would be sort of a que sera sera thing except for the pervasive role of government today coupled with the speed of information. The impact of a fad-belief on a single population will normally be along a distribution curve, probably directly relateable to how much it contradicts 'current' or 'conventional' wisdom:
        - some will believe it wholeheartedly and take it as gospel
      - some will guardedly believe it
      - some will reject it ...with the end result being a distribution of results. If over time it seems to be beneficial, it becomes universalized.

      Now?
      Vaccines "might" be dangerous? An uninformed (but pretty) celebrity makes a public statement and the next day thousands follow it like unthinking sheep.
      Eggs are (believed to be in the fad of the moment) bad? Some bureaucrat swipes a pen and eggs are expunged from every school meal program and officially 'frowned on' across the public, leading to a decrease in consumption of what may be a perfectly healthy food, replaced by high-sugar, high-fat breakfast 'snacks'.

      PERSONALLY (I am not a dietician) being alive since 1967, my observation of the (somewhat sudden) increase in obesity across American society seems to dovetail with the whole 'cholesterol' thing - the early-80s crusade drove out what seems to be to have been a relatively unprocessed staple of civilized human consumption. But I'm aware too that the latter-20thC saw the unprecedented industrialization of food production so there could be a host of chemicals at fault that happened at the same time.

      --
      -Styopa
    12. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      It is a miss conception that I fell into.

      You missed conception? I'm assuming it was a timing issue, though you might have other fertility problems. I suggest a specialist...

      Or is it a misconception that you missed conception?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    13. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem is that these things are being reported badly by the press. A study shows some minor correlation between coffee drinkers and... let's say... people who suffer from heart disease. The news the next day is, "Coffee causes heart attacks".

      Another part of the problem is, for a while, we apparently didn't even bother to study things scientifically. Research would show a correlation between being overweight and heart disease, and that was pretty valid. But then the assumption was made: If you want less fat on your body, you should have less fat in your diet. Since you have to eat something, replace meat with bread. Since you want food to taste good, replace fat with sugar. Or replace fat with vegetable products, because vegetables are healthier than meat, right?

      Except that we hadn't really studied that stuff. It turns out, the bread and sugar and transfats are probably worse than having some level of meat and fat in your diet.

      Finally, the fact is that we have a hard time studying diet. It's rare that you see anything resembling a controlled study, and you certainly don't see controlled studies going over long periods of time. We can't just gather up a couple thousand random people and give them a highly controlled diet for 20 years to see how their bodies respond.

    14. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      From what I've read the damage isn't caused by the overuse itself but rather it's effects such as dehydration.

    15. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      My French came out. English isn't my first language.

      I appreciate you teaching me the correct spelling.

    16. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Could you conceive that conception has more than one meaning? What they said was an Eggcorn, but a logically correct one.

    17. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by mpe · · Score: 1

      The anti-salt propaganda has as much basis as the "wisdom" of drinking eight glasses of water a day. It became a thing everyone "knows" is true without questioning if there is any factual support.

      Much the same is true of the various versions of "five a day".

      Nobody has ever demonstrated a mechanism for how salt intake causes heart disease. All you ever get is a lot of hand waving and vague statistics collected from people who already have advanced CV disease.

      Not just with salt, when it comes to CVD. Dosn't help either that many of the people involved have no excuse for not knowing the difference between a lipoprotein and a steroid either.

    18. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      My French came out. English isn't my first language.

      In that case, my apologies, since your English is considerably better than my French (I can just about handle "je ne parle Francais" without mistakenly putting a Spanish conjugation in).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    19. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with hyponatremia (basically, salt deficiency) I can attest to this. If you eat "too much" salt for your digestion to handle, you'll just flush it out. Not pleasant, but also no larger risks other than an emergency bathroom visit.

    20. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      I have yet to see any evidence that eating the more processed version of ANY grain is as good as an unprocessed version.

      Cooking is a processing - and uncooked forms of various foods have various dangers. E.g. Bird flu, tape worm, some food borne diseases etc.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    21. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      I wasn't offended by your comment. It actually made me laugh pretty hard.

    22. Re:Eat real foods, mostly veg, not too much by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Also. Want to know my worst mistake in English yet?

      In a hockey room while making conversation I said that I raped the cheese. Because to grate in French is "raper" so I tried to translate it over by making it sound English.

  13. Salt sensitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most likely there are people that have a considerably lower tolerance, or high tolerance, to salt, which leads to blood pressure changes.

    I've known people eat salt out the ass and they are still healthy as you could be.
    Then there are people that basically don't eat much salt at all and also have high blood pressures.
    Salt most likely exacerbates certain conditions that aren't known yet, as well. (stress being a common known one)

    There is still a lot of research with this to do. But going by the knowns, there is definitely a HUGE piece of missing information that gives a person high blood pressures, and salt may also affect one, or possibly even multiple, disorders.

  14. They ran with a hypothesis by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is not actually news though it's one more study on the pile. My wife is a physician and her instructors in med school pointed out that the relationship between salt and high blood pressure was based on correlations, not a causal chain. Basically it was a logical hypothesis that people started acting upon before it was ever established as fact. A lot of patients with high blood pressure problems (apparently - I'm not a doctor) have issues relating to osmotic gradients and other biological functions where salt is involved. So the theory went that by controlling sodium you could help control these problems. A good theory. But a good theory isn't a necessarily fact and it sounds like a lot of medical effort went into controlling sodium before anyone actually could test to see if it really mattered. Apparently the answer is turning out to be that it doesn't matter nearly as much as we thought.

    Oblig XKCD

    1. Re:They ran with a hypothesis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This!

      I think people and doctors are confused by the fact that, yes, medical science knows to an absolute certainty that salt _does_ increase blood pressure. Consume a significant amount of salt and shortly thereafter your blood pressure will go up until your kidneys can return it to equilibrium.

      However, it's a much larger leap than people expected to then say that regular, high-salt intake will lead to consistently unhealthy high blood pressure. There are other, larger factors at play. It's sort like the bad medical advice behind consuming cholesterol, although AFAIK there was never any science which even showed an immediate relationship between cholesterol intake and blood concentration levels---turns out it was almost all about trans-fats for most people.

      All of this bad science is just like the mystic belief "you are what you eat". Frankly, whenever somebody says that eating X will increase X in your body, just remember that it's the same thing cannibals believed. It's a meaningless relationship, just as often false as it is true. Body chemistry is so tremendously complex that for any random X you can't say with any serious certainty a priori that X will have any substantive health consequence, even if consumed regularly. Even where X was "salt", and we knew that salt was pivotal in controlling blood pressure, and we can measure an immediate, causal link between increased salt and increased blood pressure, it turns out the relationship regarding disease is nothing like what was expected.

    2. Re:They ran with a hypothesis by jafac · · Score: 1

      I'll tell you what.

      I was warned by my doctor about borderline hypertension. She recommended exercise and weight loss. I lost 40 lbs, and started exercising regularly. Guess what? With daily BP monitoring, my BP did not go down. Then she put me on an alpha blocker called terazosin, and there was no change in BP. I read about the DASH diet, and while I didn't formally adopt a strict regimen, I made myself aware of the salt-content of things I generally ate, and eliminated added salt, and tried to keep my amount under 1500 mg per day. Guess what? My BP went down to a normal range. (otherwise unmedicated).

      I'm not sure how relevant that is in the face of statistical evidence from groups of people, but the results were pretty clear in my individual case.

      The problem I have with this, is that I never got tested before/after or on an ongoing basis, to report what my sodium levels actually were. That would probably have been more convincing.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    3. Re:They ran with a hypothesis by wrook · · Score: 1

      I have had similar experiences with pre-hypertension and having no real success lowering my blood pressure -- except with the DASH diet. Like you, after a fairly short time with DASH, my blood pressure became normal. However, if you read the studies behind DASH (rather than the pamphlet on the website) you will find that the diet is geared around the hypothesis that increasing potassium and magnesium is the mechanism for lowering blood pressure. The sodium reduction is just kind of stapled on. The original paper shows that the DASH diet tended to reduce blood pressure at all sodium levels (although it appeared to reduce it more with lower sodium intake). Unfortunately, I couldn't tell from the paper what sample sizes they were using and I have grown cautious about the statistical abilities of nutritional researchers. The published DASH pamphlet is also faulty (IMHO) as it does not follow the diet used in the studies. It has a *much* higher calcium intake. I suspect (but have no evidence to support my feeling) that the published pamphlet has been prepared with "input" from various special interest groups.

      The original DASH paper is available here: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/1...

      There a some other papers available on the internet as well. I would read these and ignore the various other websites/books with information about DASH.

    4. Re:They ran with a hypothesis by swillden · · Score: 1

      But a good theory isn't a necessarily fact and it sounds like a lot of medical effort went into controlling sodium before anyone actually could test to see if it really mattered.

      This is often a problem with scientific progress. A hypothesis that seems reasonable and has some experimental support arises, but it takes years and a lot of work and money to test the implications of the hypothesis. And even when that is done, future research can still find that there were subtleties that, when understood, dramatically change the conclusion.

      In the mean time, people have to live and have to make decisions. Science provides the best guide we have for doing that even though it's nearly always flawed in unknown ways. So, what do we do? Refuse to act until we've found all the answers? Obviously not. Instead, we have to act on the best knowledge we have at the time -- though applying a little bit of conservatism if the change predicted by that best knowledge is too radical -- and expect that we'll have to change our approach in the future when more knowledge is available.

      If what you want is final, unequivocal and never-changing answers, don't look to science. Science asymptotically approaches correctness. However, no other decisionmaking method we have guarantees even eventual correctness on any time scale.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  15. The Way It Works by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Being in the midst of trying to control mine, here is a basic explanation provided by my Endocrinologists with some help from Wikipedia.

    It all comes down to the Renin–angiotensin system.

    When the Kidneys think they don't have enough fluid volume to do their job, they send out signals that ultimately come back to themselves, causing them to retain salt and ditch potassium. Water, naturally, follows the salt and results in increased blood volume and subsequently, pressure. That's why many BP meds contains diuretics.

    Too much salts mucks up all the complex feedback mechanisms.

    Something that is apparently under diagnosed is a condition called Aldosteronism, where the adrenal glands make too much of a hormone called aldosterone, a primary messenger in this cycle. Aldosterone levels are not part of the standard blood workup done by your average family physician and diagnosing the condition requires a special, hours long process. It's is kind of a Zebra in diagnostic terms but is looking more and more like a horse.

    So if you are afflicted with High BP and you're not having much luck controlling it, ask your doctor about aldosterone levels. High BP that is a result of this condition is more dangerous in the long term, but possibly curable by suppressing the aldosterone or removing one of the adrenal glands.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:The Way It Works by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The renal system is supposed to adjust after a few days and correct this, such that you expel the excess salt and your blood pressure normalizes. Of course jumping from a 2000mg sodium diet to a 4000mg sodium diet will up your blood pressure; but, three days later, it should be normal again, while you're still downing 4000mg of sodium every day.

    2. Re:The Way It Works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All great. But then 90% of all HBP is of idiopathic (unknown) origin. So all your investigations are most likely going to result in "nothing wrong with you", like for me. And then you'll have to search for a drug that actually works.

      In my case, ACE inhibitors did almost nothing for BP and caused *major issues*, but ARB at 1/2 "low dose" level got my 170/90 BP to just under 120/80. When I asked why ACE inhibitors don't work while ARB worked so quickly, doctors (including some researchers), basically just threw up their hands.

      So there you go, state of the art.

      PS. diuretics are only good for people that have impaired kidney functions. They did nothing for me, just made me very very thirsty all the time. Beta blockers almost killed me. And Ca blockers I didn't even try - they are not for young people anyway.

      So good luck with your treatment, but it's not as simple as you describe.

  16. Science at its best by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    The debate on this issue is far from over, and it'll take years to sort out all the contradictory evidence.

    Once again, science is reduced to debate and belief. Medicine is rife with these sorts of "schools of thought"(*), it's almost as bad as economics. This is not the "more refined theory supplants approximate theory" that one finds in, for example, physics. It's "yeah, this looks good and makes sense, so we're 'gonna go with it" science.

    This is what allows vested interests to decry science in favor of their own agenda. Who is the average person supposed to trust when scientists keep making and overturning bad conclusions, in the face of authority figures pushing their own agenda?

    All I see here, in this forum, is appeal to the difficulty of experimentation. If the original single experiment is so hard or expensive to reproduce, should we be basing our conclusions on the single experiment?

    Scientists need to kick it up a notch.

    (*) As a typical example (dozens more are easy to find), Helicobacter pylori was identified as the source of gastric ulcers, yet the medical community didn't believe the results for many years. The amount of suffering and loss that occurred while this "school of thought" was slowly overturned is incalculable.

    1. Re:Science at its best by n6kuy · · Score: 1

      Once again, science is reduced to debate and belief. Medicine is rife with these sorts of "schools of thought"(*), it's almost as bad as religion.

      There. Fixed it for you..

      --
      If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
    2. Re:Science at its best by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Stop confusing media reports, scientist, and Doctors.

      The problem is reporting on science is horrid. So 'hey this study contradicts these other studies' becomes the head line, people start assuming it rendered the previous studies moot.

      YOU're look show a sever lack of understand of how science works.
      Are you saying when a guy claims to find a thing all medical treatments should just jump on board?

      "dozens more are easy to find"
      doubtful. More likely dozens of things that fit you bias because they take time to confirm and create actual treatments for.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Science at its best by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So it's bayesian science instead of frequency science?

    4. Re:Science at its best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geekoid, you're inebriated earlier than usual today. What are your kids up to?

      I see you have predictably risen to the defense of the humans who lay claim to the mantle of science. Seriously, now, you're attacking someone for pointing out how scientific communities in practice act based on social dynamics rather than Vulcanesque rationality?

      Maybe you should read about Semmelweiss and how he was ostracized for suggesting physicians wash their hands between autopsies and delivering babies.

      Or consider the fact that the "settled science" for ulcers was always that it was stress induced and treatment should involve surgery to sever the vagus nerve and remove part of the stomach. Treatment for h. pylori ulcers involved bismuth and antibiotics, but no one would give the Marshall a chance until he had himself scoped to prove he was ulcer free, deliberately infected himself with h. pylori, got ulcers, then cured them with antiobiotics.

      Medicine is rife with stories like this. Fuck, did you know pellagra was "absolutely known" by the medical establishment to be an infectious disease? God. Hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women? Egg yolks killing you from cholesterol? Hypertension guidelines? The list just goes on and on, and it continues to this day.

      Hell, one need only to look over to cosmology to see the massive debate in the 20th century about whether the Milky Way was the universe or whether Andromeda was another thing kind of like the Milky Way. Yes, the very idea there might be another galaxy out there was majorly controversial. That debate wasn't constrained to rationality, either.

      If we had a Vulcan society, perhaps science in scientific communities would work the way your addled mind thinks it does. But it doesn't. Put down the drugs.

  17. Theory versus tested facts by sjbe · · Score: 1

    But it does help with water retention, right? And you would imagine that as the body retained more water it would become generally more pressurised?

    As I understand it, that is a big part of the basis of the theory behind controlling sodium in heart patients. Osmotic gradient controlled through reduced sodium. Good sounding theory. However just because that sounds sensible doesn't mean it actually matters in medical outcomes. The human body is complicated and sometimes good sounding theories turn out to be completely incorrect. This appears to be one of those good sounding but false theories.

    1. Re:Theory versus tested facts by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      But in theory, it should also be incredibly easy to test.
      You would think sometime in the last few centuries someone would of bothered to get a few people together, control their food intake, adjust salt intake, and see what happened. If we are studying water retention, and its effect it could be a short-term study of around a week.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Theory versus tested facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In cases like this (try it yourself), blood pressure drops.

      But in the case where they ask a few French people what their salt intake is, compare that to their age (which affects sodium retention), their weight (which affects sodium retention), and their sex (which affects sodium retention), then the salt intake has only a diminished effect on blood pressure!

      So, of course, you're going to have every fucking idiot on Slashdot saying how salt has NOTHING to do with blood pressure, that this study is the pinnacle of scientific achievement, and every physician and nutritionist, ever, is a complete idiot that doesn't know what they were talking about.

  18. Confusion, even at the CDC by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

    The problem is that "high blood pressure" refers to two different things: 1. your blood pressure is above the normal range (120/70) at a given time and 2. you have chronic hypertension - your blood pressure is *always* above the normal range. Eating a bunch of salt can temporarily raise your blood pressure due to water retention but there's never been any evidence that this temporary effect has any long-term effects. Chronic hypertension is normally caused by poor health habits, particularly in regards to having excess weight. Eating salt has nothing to do with it.

    I deal with this all the time because my wife the RN was always taught in school that eating too much salt leads to "high blood pressure". Well, yes, by definition "1" above. But that's a temporary condition and there's no evidence that it's bad for you. It took me 10 years to "unteach" her this little factoid, and I still have to deal with her telling the kids to not eat too much salt "because it's bad for you."

    The only way to solve this long term is to use only the term "chronic hypertension" to refer to the chronic condition.

    1. Re:Confusion, even at the CDC by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      It is still useful for kids to eat less salt. Because this taste for salt once developed is hard to destroy, and later they might satisfy this with junk food. And dietary sodium doesn't do much of good above a certain level, so it is not that they are missing much.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  19. finally by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Finally, some truth. Did you know that salt isn't bad for you if you're not fat? Because you were probably taught the opposite. Although this article itself is wrong. Salt does not raise blood pressure. The amount of water you drink after eating salt raises your blood pressure. It's only like a couple hour thing though. 24 hours max.

    1. Re:finally by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Most things you eat don't cause increased blood pressure but can increase your weight which = higher BMI which according to this article is the main cause of high blood pressure.

  20. It's a small study by geekoid · · Score: 1

    There was an increase in hypertension
    there are many other study's that show there is a link.
    Too much salt has other effects beside blood pressure, so to tie this to the CDC report seem disingenuous.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:It's a small study by xeos · · Score: 1

      About as many studies find a decrease in blood pressure with increased salt intake as the reverse. So the number that find the high salt=high bp link isn't really that informative.

  21. Mod JMS up by pushing-robot · · Score: 2

    Bring me more of these... Salted. I work better with salt.
    Did you know that in the 20th century they actually thought that salt was bad for you?
    Listen to the animals I say. The lion will sit down with the lamb to share the salt lick.
    Good enough for them, good enough for me.

    Max Eilerson, Crusade, 1999

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  22. The reason why you're told to cut salt for high BP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My physiology professor explained it to me years ago. There's two reasons. First, we're told to cut salt not because salt is bad, but because we eat shitty food filled with salt. Telling people to avoid salt is easier than telling them to avoid bad foods. Second, 10% (or 25% according to UVA) of the population is salt sensitive, but there's no "easy" test for it, so doctors tell people to avoid salt anyway.

    I guess there's really only one reason: telling people to avoid salt is the easy answer that gets results. I can see other comments already that swear "but scientists told us salt was bad!" Yeah, they lied to us sort of, because figuring out what food is healthy and what food is not is too complex for the general populace. They simplified it to unhealthy food usually contains a lot of salt therefore salt is bad mmmkay? Researchers didn't lie to us; it was your GP who doesn't have enough time to explain why McDonald's is bad for your already clogged arteries. Instead of going through with you on what to eat and what not to, because it's too difficult for most (my doc said avoid McDonald's and BK so now I just eat triples from Wendy's), they said avoid salt.

  23. Action sometimes before evidence by sjbe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is one of the many examples of why I don't care about consensus opinion. Show us evidence, or go away.

    Fair enough. Do you have sufficient expertise that you are able to interpret the evidence? Is the evidence clear? Is the evidence properly gathered and analyzed? Do we have enough evidence to draw firm conclusions or merely enough to nudge the direction of inquiry? Will the patient die before you can get conclusive evidence?

    Fact is that the human body is complicated and sometimes a good sounding theory is the best we have to go on. A lot of diagnosis are basically well informed probabilistic guesses because we don't completely understand the underlying disease process. Sometimes you have to act before you can be certain of your case. For instance if you have a bacterial infection it can take days to culture the infectious organism and the patient can die before you get a definitive answer. So the doctor has to take an educated guess before he has the evidence. Sometimes a consensus opinion is the best we can do.

    What people miss about consensus opinions is why they matter. What a consensus is NOT useful for is as evidence proving or disproving a theory about physical phenomena. A consensus IS useful for as evidence against the (political) argument that there are substantially conflicting opinions when there in fact are not. A consensus is useful for establishing standard of care. A consensus is (sometimes) useful for protection against legal liability.

    1. Re:Action sometimes before evidence by IAN · · Score: 1

      Post to undo mismoderation. Ignore.

    2. Re:Action sometimes before evidence by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      Well stated. Maybe if I had taken more time to clarify my point, it would have helped my case. When someone says that 4 out of 5 dentists recommend Crest, I'm going to consider the source, and at least do a little homework before buy some. When my mother had spinal surgery a week ago to have four vertebrae fused, all the decisions were left up to me. Am I qualified?...hell no, but I was able to spend enough time researching the surgery (there were options), surgeon, hospital, etc. to help determine what was in her best interest.

      When evidence is provided, even if simply referenced, it can be poked, prodded, and validated or not. But I won't fall for an appeal to authority.

      There was a similar article in fivethirtyeight.com just a couple days ago with regard to vitamins, and how many of the studies indicating that everyone should be taking a daily multi-vitamin have been improperly executed. And yet, everyone assumes we all should, or that it's "common sense", or that they'll take one just to be on the safe side.

      For many years, it was a "good sounding theory" that peptic ulcers were caused by stress or spicy food. It was a consensus, with little evidence, until one man proved them all wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...

      For years, we were all told that eggs were good for you, then we were told that they're bad, and what do you suppose the consensus is now?

      So, yes there are certainly many instances where we just have to go with the odds, and what the current conventional wisdom is. But, it also needs to be tempered by a knowledge of what the current state of research is in that area.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  24. Blame Health Reporting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not new data. If you are using time magazine, the source for this post, or are using your local fish wrapper or news station, you will be terribly informed. Hypertension, is a multifactorial disease. It has genetic, environmental and psychological components. The body is really good at regulating ion concentration in a healthy individual. The point of low sodium diet isn't always the salt, but the kinds of foods that are high in sodium. Preserved and processed foods are frequently packed full of other things that can raise BP, lipids and inflammatory factors. The headline writers like to overstate the blame. The fact is a diet rich in whole foods like fruits and vegetables with reasonable amounts of lean protein sources and limited fat and cholesterol are healthful. Moderate daily exercise, limited alcohol consumption, limited caffeine use and nonuse of tobacco products are also key. That is it. If everyone who smoked stopped smoking, hypertension would greatly decrease. It is common sense. If people could cut back to only occasionaly drinking one or two beers we solvce another subset of problems.
    This headline is garbage, and overstates the study as well. It is not a license to go hog wild.

  25. Old news, really by xeos · · Score: 2

    The link between salt and blood pressure is pretty clearly not the one your Dr. tells you, and this has been known for a really long time. Even the first study to show the "link" turns out to be bunk science:

    http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~...

    More recent meta studies have shown that about as many papers find a positive link as a negative link between blood pressure and salt - yes, eating more salt can lower your blood pressure (or, more likely, it's all just noise). Look it up on Pubmed if you want to read all the details. It's a good skill: you'll quickly learn more than your Dr. does about any topic of real concern to you, unless your Dr. is a specialist or obscenely good at his job.

    What's sad is that simple to understand explanations that lead to simple to follow prescriptions (ie eat less salt) tend to stick around way longer than the scientific consensus behind them.

    1. Re:Old news, really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That study of a study is flawed, however, on a fundamental level. It's based on off-setting the salt levels based on age. Age affects salt retention, as does BMI and sex (which is why the study in TFA is fucking retarded). This is akin to saying that "Motorcycles don't get better gas mileage than cars. That's a myth. You'll realize this after you offset the values by weight!" -- The motorcycle is still getting 70 miles per gallon and the car is still getting 30. Quibbling about any other shit is at best blind ignorance and at worse dishonesty. Next I can expect a study about "Depression Medication never drives people to suicide, because most people taking depression medication already had thoughts of suicide!"

  26. Re:The reason why you're told to cut salt for high by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 1

    My physiology professor explained it to me years ago. There's two reasons. First, we're told to cut salt not because salt is bad, but because we eat shitty food filled with salt. Telling people to avoid salt is easier than telling them to avoid bad foods.

    Yeah, that's what I did. Avoided salt and went for the carbs instead. Now I've both high blood pressure AND am type 2. Worked great. Protein, often high in salt, or carbs. Choose your poison.

  27. Not enough salt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Several years back I started eating more and more healthy to both save money from fast food and to be more healthy. I forgot to start adding salt to my diet. After many years, I developed and issue where I was constantly thirsty and constantly going to the bathroom and lots of issues with my muscles witching. My blood screenings came back nearly perfect for everything, I had no issues there.

    Eventually I started eating more salads, which had no salt at all, so I decided to actually measure my salt consumption. I was consuming about 1/10th of my daily salt. A few weeks of making sure I was getting 50%-80% of my recommend daily amount, and I was nearly back to normal after almost a decade of worsening issues. My only problem now is retraining myself to recognize when I have to go to the bathroom. I used to go so much that I developed a habit of thinking that have to go when I feel any amount of pressure.

    I also find that I don't get as dizzy almost at all anymore and I'm not as sensitive to warm weather. I used to get incredibly thirsty, dizzy and headaches when it would get even mildly warm outside, even though I wasn't sweating.

  28. Unfinished by biochozo · · Score: 1
  29. Personalized medicine... and nutrition by Theovon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, much of what we know is being overturned. Some of the disinformation was probably created by the food companies that wanted to make cheaper food. Back in the 70's we were told that fat was bad, and so all these processed foods got lots of extra sugar instead. Now we find out that sugar is bad and you need to consume more of the right fats. We're also starting to see that this "food pyramid" they taught us about should be basically inverted. The reason for the food pyramid is more to do with cost (grains are cheap) than nutrition.

    Today, we know a hell of a lot about the impact of genetics, microbiotic flora, and many other things that affect individuals differently. For instance, many people have some mild sensitivities to various food proteins, although no always enough to notice more than some unexplained lethargy unpredictable times after eating certain foods. Of course, for some people, it's bad, like those with celiac disease.

    Here's an interesting one: Apparently, about 10% of the population (US or world, I'm not sure) has a homozygous MTHFR C677T mutation. These people cannot convert folic acid (which is artificial anyway) or folinic acid (found in lots of vegetables) into methylfolate. As a result, these people suffer from massive B9 deficiencies (which indirectly causes others, like trouble absorbing B12). Moreover, it's not just that folic acid and folinic acid are not useful to them; they're functionally poison, interfering with the normal function of the methylation cycle. So these people need to take large quantities of methylfolate and cut out certain "healthy" vegetables. They also have to cut out "enriched" foods. We're starting to see a correlation between health problems increasing in these people and the mid-90's FDA mandate to enrich certain foods with Folic Acid. Lovely.

    1. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by xeos · · Score: 1

      I would argue that we never really knew that fat was bad for us - it was a hypothesis that got converted into policy before the empirical evidence that could have lead to actual knowledge was ever collected.

    2. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by swillden · · Score: 1

      Yeah, much of what we know is being overturned.

      Keep in mind that your statement has been true since the dawn of the age if scientific reasoning -- basically, the enlightenment -- and will be true forever. The only way that it will ever end is if we stop learning and just stick with believing in the erroneous beliefs we currently hold. Because our current knowledge will always contain a lot of errors.

      Obviously, I'm speaking more broadly than just medicine and nutrition. The subjects about which we're rapidly overturning much of what we know drift around, but any scientific society will always be in the process of overthrowing old ideas as accumulating evidence and improving conjectures generate new knowledge.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      However, in most sciences we learn things that are good enough to use, and aren't overturned. We may not have the hang of gravity yet, but for everyday purposes it works just fine and we know what to do about it. In nutrition, we seem to bounce around with various people having conflicting opinions that don't really get resolved.

      I'd like to know roughly what I should be eating. I have an idea, but people seem to keep coming out with evidence that I'm seriously wrong, and other people keep coming out with evidence that says I'm right. Right now, I'd expect people to make good nutritional suggestions that aren't under attack. Just general goals, not anything specific. Should I aim more for low-carb or low-fat (correcting for the fact that lots of low-fat stuff has added sugar, which I'm pretty sure isn't good for me)? Should I eat or avoid butter and similar things? Eggs? Mammal meat? I don't care about the equivalent of figuring time passing in low earth orbit, I care about the equivalent of primitive orbital mechanics.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by swillden · · Score: 1

      However, in most sciences we learn things that are good enough to use, and aren't overturned. We may not have the hang of gravity yet, but for everyday purposes it works just fine and we know what to do about it.

      That's a particularly weak example, since for everyday purposes we knew how to deal with gravity long before we had any scientific understanding of it at all.

      Right now, I'd expect people to make good nutritional suggestions that aren't under attack.

      Turns out that biology is a little bit more complicated than we expected.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It's not a great example, but it's the first that came to mind. We had more or less reliable drugs before we had the microbiology to support them.

      Nutrition is important. We've had the scientific method for centuries. I'm not saying I should have a computer program that calculates the optimum diet for me, but I'm saying there should be good, sound, undisputed evidence as to whether I should avoid red meat or not.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by swillden · · Score: 1

      I'm saying there should be good, sound, undisputed evidence as to whether I should avoid red meat or not.

      You say that as though it's some sort of moral issue, as though science has somehow failed to provide you with what you deserve. I don't understand that. We know what we know (though much of what we know is wrong), and we're learning. Saying we should know any given thing that we don't know is silly, because given that we don't know it, we don't even know what is required in order to know it.

      In the case of the effect of red meat, just how deep does that particular rabbit hole go? We don't really know. We have a rough understanding of many of the mechanisms involved, but no comprehensive understanding of how it all fits together, much less how it interacts with other elements. We can look at empiricist[*] studies but the plethora of confounding factors make those particularly weak in this case. Simple phenomena can be described via empirical methods. Even emergent phenomena with very complex underpinnings can be described empirically, as long as they're simple at the level of explanation. But when phenomena are inherently complex, only deep explanation will suffice.

      Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if we're still 50 years from the level of knowledge that you demand. It's probably not that bad, but it might be, because we are barely scratching the surface at understanding the complexity of our own bodies.

      [*] By "empiricist" I mean the sort of semi-science that assumes that descriptive knowledge derived from observation, without any real explanatory theory, is scientific rather than just being a narrow rule of thumb whose applicability is uncertain. In this case, measuring health outcomes and correlating them with red meat intake and then using the result to predict what red meat intake choices produce the best outcomes. The approach is flawed not only because it often confuses correlation with causation (though it does), or because it's hard to isolate the studied factor from confounding factors (it is), but because without explanatory knowledge that tells us not only what the effects of red meat are but also exactly why they are what they are, we can never really know how other choices will interact.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:Personalized medicine... and nutrition by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It's not a moral issue (well, it could easily be, but that's not how I'm approaching it). It's a question of why the science is so undeveloped. It seems that we really know very little nutrition (other than things like sugars being bad), and that puzzles me.

      I know there's a lot of ignorance, and that's reasonable. After my heart attack, my cardiologist said that he knew some of the drugs he was prescribing would help, and others were his best guess. This is, I believe, reasonable. It's more than I've been able to reliably figure out about nutrition.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  30. Cool by maroberts · · Score: 1

    After reading this, I must go and have a bacon and egg sandwich with ketchup...and extra salt

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  31. I can simply ignore all health and diet advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you Dan Ryckert?

  32. Dont know, But I think i have the record. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    253/141

  33. It's worse than that by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Where UK citizens would take a month long holiday every year because of the generous vacation time afforded by most European countries, the United States doesn't guarantee any paid vacation or sick time.

    Even US worker bees that do have a fair amount of vacation time available to them rarely dare take even 5 days at a time off. Why? The not unfounded fear that some bean-counter or your PHB will start thinking, 'hey, maybe we don't need the guy on vacation AT ALL'. So even while on vacay, we sufferers of never-ending Puritanism can't fully relax due to the fear of a pink slip waiting for us in reward for our holiday tan.

    1. Re:It's worse than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a US worker bee in a Fortune 100 business, I take two consecutive weeks off every summer, one week in the fall and scatter the rest of my days off through the rest of the year. I get three weeks from my employer per year and an additional five days for the holidays we have to work (we get a total of four weeks off, along with five sick days and one paid volunteer day). Taking time off at this employer, or previous employers, has never been an issue. If it is an issue for you, look for another job.

  34. Ding-Ding by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    The one thing about salt is that it does make stuff tasty, often the highly processed stuff, making it easy to overdo it. Avoiding salt sort of automatically helps one to cut out the heavily processed foods.

    Bingo. Processed foods are basically built out of salt and high levels of carbohydrates, which is just a fancy way of saying 'do you want a large order of diabetes with that'?

  35. Re:The reason why you're told to cut salt for high by xeos · · Score: 1

    That's a nice theory, but none of the primary literature I've read on this topic, or review articles, have ever suggested that it was misdirection. Perhaps that's how your prof justified his behavior, but I don't think it is what most Dr's think they are doing.

  36. Re:Omurdercare - Tsarkon Reports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fucked your mother, and she loved it.

    Typical Liberal response whenever their vision of the New World Order is criticized.

  37. M-O-D-E-R-A-T-I-O-N by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    Funny that little word moderation always seems to pop up from time to time. Genetics, being a deciding factor in health, along with weight, you can pretty much eat anything you want, IN MODERATION, and it not cause an issue. When you see these telletubies running around on the scooters in the stores, with 3 & 4 folds of flab hanging off their bodies, a clear tube of oxygen shoved up their nose and they are in the cookie, cake & salty items section of a grocery store, it's not hard to figure out why they have health issues.

  38. Nutrition got a bad start by Livius · · Score: 1

    The problem with the science surrounding nutrition is that for a long time the people investigating nutrition were not scientists, and later actual scientists were handicapped by the poor state of the art. So studies would compare diets where one had a higher salt content than the other, but simply put variables were not controlled, and as it turns out the other differences between the samples vastly outweighed the supposed independent variable.

    High-salt foods are typically, but not exclusively, unhealthy highly processed foods of poor nutritional value. That is a real statistical correlation even though the salt itself is not the issue.

  39. A brisk walk works wonder by noldrin · · Score: 1

    I got diagnosed with high blood pressure and got the doctor pressure me into starting to use blood pressure meds. I was also cautioned against losing "too much" weight even though I was clearly 17 lbs over the recommended BMI zone. I got a blood pressure monitor and started experimenting. In the end, I found that taking a 45 minute to hour brisk walk, had the most lasting and immediate effect on my blood pressure, even more so than the medication, which I've stopped taking.

  40. Woody Allen's Sleeper movie by ferespo · · Score: 1

    Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."

    Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.

    Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or ... hot fudge?

    Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy ... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.

    Dr. Melik: Incredible.

    http://dowdnotesonnapkins.blog...

    1. Re:Woody Allen's Sleeper movie by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      My favorite quote from Sleeper: "Have a cigarette. It's good for you."

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  41. A+B != C by sjbe · · Score: 1

    You would think sometime in the last few centuries someone would of bothered to get a few people together, control their food intake, adjust salt intake, and see what happened. If we are studying water retention, and its effect it could be a short-term study of around a week.

    We know what happens to blood pressure in the short term. Salt affects blood pressure = known fact. We've understood that for a very long time. That is completely different from proving that salt affects heart disease or salt affects mortality in patients with heart conditions. Those things are MUCH harder to test because they require large, long term population studies. They're expensive and difficult studies to do. The problem is that people took the fact that salt affects blood pressure and applied it (without evidence) to treatment of heart disease when there was no known causal link between the two.

    This is the logic that was used:
        A) We know salt affects blood pressure.
    + B) We know high blood pressure can cause negative patient outcomes in patients with heart problems.
    = C) Therefore controlling salt should reduce negative patient outcomes

    The problem is that A + B does not equal C. We just assumed that it did because it sounded right. You have two bits of data that seem to add up to a logical result but it turns out that the equation is more complicated and thus our simple "answer" is wrong.

  42. Sum up nutrition by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

    There is not one food that's bad for you, it's bad quantities of food. Hell, you can survive small exposures to highly toxic substances as much as you can have a serving of potato chips from time to time and remain healthy. My BMI is about 33 because I love the quantities.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  43. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advic by tsqr · · Score: 1

    I was being serious, but if you want to think I'm clever, that's OK too.

  44. Misinterpreted correlations and fads by sjbe · · Score: 1

    That has given us margarine (plastic for your body), high carbohydrate diets loaded with wheat gluten, and the result is massive obesity - and all the concomitant health issues.

    There is no causal link known between gluten and the obesity epidemic. Gluten sensitivity appear to be merely the latest in a long string of fads jumped on by people who are hypochondriacs as the demand for gluten free products has hugely exceeded known affected population. While there are a relatively small number of people with coeliac disease and other sensitivities, there is no (credible) published evidence that avoiding gluten has any benefit for most people or that it is a primary driver in the current obesity epidemic.

    You NEED a good amount of cholesterol for a healthy nervous system, and avoiding eggs and cholesterol containing foods in general is thought to be responsible for the increase in Alzheimer's disease, among other issues.

    That is little more than a hypothesis. We do not know with any certainty what causes Alzheimer's disease. Anyone who claims we do is selling something or confused. We are learning lots about it but we do not fully understand the disease process. There may be a correlation regarding eggs and cholesterol but the studies simply haven't been done to establish any sort of causal link in the disease process.

    Furthermore you might consider linking to the source material you cite rather than an editorial in a random non-peer reviewed website that refers negatively to statin drugs as "mainstream medicine". That is not what I would consider an unbiased or credible source and it casts your argument in a worse light than it probably deserves.

    1. Re:Misinterpreted correlations and fads by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      Furthermore you might consider linking to the source material you cite rather than an editorial in a random non-peer reviewed website that refers negatively to statin drugs as "mainstream medicine". That is not what I would consider an unbiased or credible source and it casts your argument in a worse light than it probably deserves.

      I've done extensive research in this area for myself and family's health. There is a LOT more to it, but I recommend eliminating wheat to everyone, because candida overgrowth can cause so many issues, and it's fed by wheat and sugar. I'm advocate because of the huge health benefits WE have seen for ourselves. There is not room here to go posting the volumes of research I have, but a good place to start is William Davis' book Wheat Belly.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
  45. That is why we test hypothesis by sjbe · · Score: 1

    But it does help with water retention, right? And you would imagine that as the body retained more water it would become generally more pressurised?

    That doesn't automatically mean that it affects mortality or patient outcomes. The human body is complicated. Just because it seems logical doesn't mean it actually is a problem.

  46. Moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course salt affects blood pressure. Basic osmosis. But if your kidneys are working fine, you excrete it in urine. Homeostasis. That doesn't mean you should overwork your organs because they will give out.

  47. Comparing eras by sjbe · · Score: 1

    All we need are dissection records or dissection of well-preserved corpses from the era, so as to examine the state of organs.

    The few remaining corpses of people 100+ years dead will most likely not give you the information you seek. There simply is not enough material remaining even among that which is well preserved to make authoritative claims regarding entire populations. At best we might get some hints and get some limited insight but there will be pretty sharp limits on making serious comparisons. Furthermore, I don't know how much time you've spend working with medical records but I've spent a lot of time with them in my professional life. Even modern medical records can be pretty bad. Medical records from 100+ years ago are very difficult to glean useful information from in a lot of cases. Not saying it can't be done but our understanding of medicine has advanced rather a lot since then.

    Finding the source material is difficult.

    That's putting it mildly. It's an interesting project you propose but you seem to be making it sound much easier than it is. That is a very challenging study.

    1. Re:Comparing eras by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It is, but it's also not as much of a problem as people think. Come on, we find 6000 year old urns and reverse engineer the recipe for the beer they used to contain; do you think we can't analyze dried meat for atherosclerosis?

      Sure there's going to be noise; but there will also be some mild level of confidence about whether this guy had a body full of horrific bullshit from a bad diet or what.

  48. Re: I can simply ignore all health and diet advic by Zynder · · Score: 1

    That is the same as dipping then. The snot in your nose will dissolve the nicotine and then you'll be joining the rest of us smokers in no time. :D

  49. But salt in food does encourage consumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you could say that more salt in food leads to a higher BMI in many people. With fat consumption been ruled out as the primary cause of obesity and the likely culprit being carbohydrates the salt issue is still important because of it's association with manufactured high carbohydrate foods. Then you need to wash all that crap down and what do fools reach for? Sugary water high in fructose.

    So yeah salt may be over rated as a direct cause of hypertension, but that selective frame of reference is dangerously misleading IMHO.

     

  50. Overstated? by sexconker · · Score: 1

    It's not overstated, it's outright bullshit, and always has been.
    Sodium does not increase blood pressure, nor does sodium chloride, nor any other common table salt.

    People with high blood pressure choose saltier diets. Healthier people, in large part to the widespread publication of the salt = high blood pressure myth, choose less salty diets. It's like using statistics to compare STD rates among circumcised men after decades of telling people to circumcise their kids because it's safer - the health conscious will believe you and get it done, the reckless won't. Those people (and their kids) then continue to engage in health-conscious or reckless behaviors as they normally do.

  51. Disentagle VISUAL from FUNCTIONAL beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (Just don't ask us about Beta)

    OK I'LL ASK ABOUT BETA because this is a useless "blah blah MY WIFE" yuk yuk Score +5 Imbecile Remark first post branch, peeves,

    1. Beta allows collapse to hide branches. Classic Slashdot does not. At least, Classic could provide convenient and quick #hashtag jumps over branches but does not. Why?

    2. Classic 'Parent' links load a whole new page rooted from Parent. At least, it could instead provide a convenient and quick #hashtag jump to parent but does not. Why?

    3. Why must people change to Beta to gain navigation functionality -- BUT ALSO swallow the visual crap like big-ass reply/parent/moderate buttons that take up half the screen. Why not just make a page full of big-ass buttons off somewhere where people who like to look at big-ass buttons (now: with ICONS! This Changes Everything!) can go and look at them all day?

    4. What percentage of beta users are those who landed there from a Google search and are using it merely because they do not know that Classic exists?

    5. What's with this "Read the rest of the comment..." where there is actually no rest of comment or it contains only white space, er, thing?

    People want more functionality. People do not want a 'new look'.

    1. Re:Disentagle VISUAL from FUNCTIONAL beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is a useless "blah blah MY WIFE" yuk yuk Score +5 Imbecile Remark first post branch

      NO it is not. That renders the rest of your comments useless and uninteresting because I was clever enough to point this out. All hail me, the Proofreader. Your poop stinks because Beta is DA BOMB.

  52. hrm by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

    Someone should tell these deniers we already have a consensus on the effect of salt on blood pressure.

  53. Obvious to me by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    BMI determines my BP. It's like clock work. Higher BMI, higher BP. Anytime I'm over 220, it goes up. Below 220 I'm in the normal range. If I eat something very heavily salty, of course it goes up. Don't eat a salt lick.

  54. Understand how to interpret studies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reminds me of last year's study showing that vitamin E does not reduce arterial plaque. General conclusion: vitamin supplements are a waste of money. C'mon.

    This study, but a credible agency, certainly should be taken seriously and likely will spawn follow-up studies. There well could be something there. But altering your lifestyle in a significant way based on this single finding is premature. Let's see if a body of corroborating evidence accumulates. Similarly, exploiting this finding in order to validate one's own agenda through some tenuous linkage ("Diet doesn't matter!" "You just need to get exercise to lower your blood pressure!" "Carbs are all that matter." "Carbs don't matter because endurance atheletes eat huge amounts of carbs and don't have blood pressure." ad nauseum) just makes people look like idiots.

    Secondly, one who RTFA would quickly discover that what it really says is: "One explanation, the authors write, is that the link we all assume between salt and blood pressure is “overstated” and “more complex than once believed.” It should be noted, however, that even though the study found no statistically significant association between blood pressure and sodium in the diet, those patients who were hypertensive consumed significantly more salt than those without hypertension—suggesting, as other research has, that salt affects people differently." Caveats apply, of course. Even this is a conclusory statement & if you really care about what the article says, your only recourse is to read it. Sorry if that sounds like a lot of work, but that's how the world works.

    Third, note that this article merely considers one possible characteristic of salt. Its other ostensible detrimental effects, some of which are supported by strong evidence, include linkage with stroke -- and not necessarily through a mechanism related to systolic blood pressure. So even if this study is fully corroborated over the next decade and linkages between blood pressure and salt are greatly reduced, that doesn't mean that eating salt (or eating "too much" salt) does not present a health risk.

    Bottom line is that this, like most headlined studies, doesn't really say what the headlines imply that it says, and do not even pretend to provide a definitive conclusion. A reasonable mind would review the primary source and file it away as a single piece of evidence that may in the future, be further corroborated. Only a fool would jump to conclusions at this point.

    It strikes me that I could probably copy & post large portions of this message to many other (if not most) provocative Slashdot headlines. If we were allowed to cancel our memberships, I probably wouldn't waste my time here much longer.

  55. Need more info here... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    When you have High Blood Pressure, you develop High Cholesterol. When you have High Cholesterol, you develop High Blood Pressure. Thus far, the only known way to fight both at once is Fish Oil. Take three 1000mg pills per day (one every 8 hours). It's not a cure, but is sure helps...