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Schizophrenia Is Not a Single Disease
An anonymous reader writes: New research from Washington University has found that the condition known as schizophrenia is not just a single disease, but instead a collection of eight different disorders. For years, researchers struggled to understand the genetic basis of schizophrenia. This new method was able to isolate and identify the different conditions (each with its own symptoms) currently classified under the same heading (abstract, full text). "In some patients with hallucinations or delusions, for example, the researchers matched distinct genetic features to patients' symptoms, demonstrating that specific genetic variations interacted to create a 95 percent certainty of schizophrenia. In another group, they found that disorganized speech and behavior were specifically associated with a set of DNA variations that carried a 100 percent risk of schizophrenia." According to one of the study's authors, "By identifying groups of genetic variations and matching them to symptoms in individual patients, it soon may be possible to target treatments to specific pathways that cause problems."
that schizophrenia itself has a bit of a split personality.
well, when i say 'I', its more of a consensus decision.
AKA Dissociative identity disorder. There is a slight comorbidity between the conditions, but depression and anxiety are also comorbid.
If it is embedded in DNA, is it hereditary?
If it is, I hope it does not bring back Eugenics or the forced sterilization practices of the early 19th century. That didn't end well on several fronts.
I wonder if the depression and anxiety are more side effects of the medications used to treat schizophrenia, or effects of trying to avoid discrimination against people with schizophrenia due to its misrepresentation by Hollywood, as a recent Cracked article suggests.
Helps explain why my dog reacts differently to different people with the diagnosis of schizophrenia. Some he's very friendly with, others he makes it abundantly clear that he wants nothing to do with them - or with them being around me.
Dogs can sense a lot of things we miss - maybe they can pick up something about the dangerous ones that we can't. And yes, one of the ones he kept growling at eventually went looking for a gun. Told my neighbor (who has 3 registered hand guns) that he hated my guts and where could he buy a gun? Stopped a few weeks later after dusk walking around with a holster with what appeared, in the dark, to be a gun. Knees on the ground, hands in the air, the whole bit. Apparently he wasn't happy that I had reported him to Youth Protection for moving back to the neighborhood after he had assured the court he wouldn't be having any more contact with a kid living in the next building.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
This is a masterful, insightful and original joke that doubtlessly required a lot of effort and definitely has not already been posted in this thread.
Meh. That just isn't as funny as the old one.
Will
Next this needs to be done with what we call "autism". There's a reason it's called the "autistic spectrum"; it's a MUCH bigger but nebulous target than schizophrenia. There's so much symptomatic comorbidity that the diagnoses would be funny if the consequences weren't so depressing.
One of the problems of Psychiatry is that because the brain has been bit of a black box to us for so long (We can see the input, we can see the output, but the gears and cogs inside remain a bit of a mystery) disorder classification has been mostly about symptomology rather than causes, most of the time. Docs have long suspected that "schizophrenia" was a collection of disorders with similar-ish results. This finding appears to confirm it.
See also: ADHD and Autism.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Well - no, and no. Recall that schizophrenia is a perception-of-reality disorder and has almost nothing to do with dissociative identity (a.k.a. multiple personality) disorder
Since Greek is taken, maybe we could replace the clumsy literal PC English with Latin? "I have Schismentis and so do I?"
Are you joking? "Eugenics" comes from Greek. 'Eu' meaning good, like euphoria, euphemism, or utopia. 'Genic', dealing with birth, breeding, and production, like in genetics, generate, or hydrogen.
I'd expect most people to interpret "eugenics" as the Greek stems for "good" and "genes", because that's where the word comes from. A fairly obscure nazzy doktor with a similar name isn't what tainted the word.
Are you joking?
Yes, in part. But proponents of eugenics will still need to disguise it to the public because Fischer or no Fischer, the public still associates eugenics with Nutsies.
"Eugenics" comes from Greek.
So does the name Eugene, which is rendered "Eugen" in German.
Please stop repeating something like it is new. Since its origins the concept is called "the schizophrenias". We knew that 100 years before now: http://schizophreniabulletin.o...
La culpa no es del chancho...
What if instead of sterilization we pass laws saying that if you knowingly and willingly pass defective genes on to your kid, you'll get prosecuted just as though you'd harmed them through abuse. For example, if a couple knew they were both carriers of the cystic fibrosis gene, they had a kid anyway, the kid had CF, and died at age 20, they would go to jail for murder.
captcha = "condom"
When you don't need to prove anything ... and it only needs to be "evidence based" ... a diagnosis can change as frequently as insurance billing requirements.
We should learn what we need to know about issues, before we decide what we need to feel about them.
I'd expect most people to interpret "eugenics" as the Greek stems for "good" and "genes", because that's where the word comes from. A fairly obscure nazzy doktor with a similar name isn't what tainted the word.
I'd expect most people neither to associate it with the Greek stems in question nor with Eugen Fischer; I'd expect them to have no clue where the word came from.
I take it you find it interesting .
It might be very valuable for treatment if the condition didn't come as a mystery and a surprise. It also raises the question of testing in the early stages of fetal development and abortion being used by "carrier" couples to select for lower risk children. I honestly have no idea of what the ethical choices are there but I would lean towards multiple tries if it meant bringing a child to term that doesn't have such a high probability of suffering in its future.
This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
oh man...so is crazy genetic?
no...but this study is from the University of Washington St. Louis wants to say it is...they analyzed data and this is what they conclude, from full text:
That's what they say..."group of heritable disorders"...it reminds me of when I studied Mendell in HS science and fruit flies and hemophilia.
It sounds fish as hell to me...psychology is great but it's so often wrong. ex: one year the DSM lists 'homosexuality' as an actual disorder...next year...not a disorder! magic!
again...i actually love psychology...but it's just full of random theories from the 19th century that are floating around...so many disorders to describe very similar and overlapping symptoms...symptoms very often open to interpretation...
I wanted to see if this passed the basic "correlation is causation" test...because this is just spreadsheets here these guys are looking at...they are re-analyzing data.
From the full text:
Emphasis added. Honestly that's enough for me to want to see it for myself, the actual data on a computer screen, before I give this any credence.
Obviously mental disorders exist. Just like anything it is related to our genetics and our environment and our choices...I would need to see alot of evidence before I believe TFA's assertions to the heritability.
Examine this list of behavior (copied from wikipedia which quotes the DSM):
According to the revised fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, three diagnostic criteria must be met:[10]
Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for much of the time during a one-month period (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
- Delusions
- Hallucinations
- Disorganized speech, which is a manifestation of formal thought disorder
- Grossly disorganized behavior (e.g. dressing inappropriately, crying frequently) or catatonic behavior
- Negative symptoms: Blunted affect (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia (lack or decline in speech), or avolition (lack or decline in motivation)
If the delusions are judged to be bizarre, or hallucinations consist of hearing one voice participating in a running commentary of the patient's actions or of hearing two or more voices conversing with each other, only that symptom is required above. The speech disorganization criterion is only met if it is severe enough to substantially impair communication.
- Social or occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset.
- Significant duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least six months. This six-month period must include at least one month of symptoms (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
I want to say that if you talk to a "good" psychiatrist or psychologist they will be able to explain how *they* personally in practice diagnose these different disorders and it may make sense. Furthermore, I'm convince psychology is a great area for scientific investigation.
All that said, as I look at that list of behaviors, then I look at the data as presented, I can only conclude that "schizophrenia" is *probably* an obsolete distinction and this data is being erroneously interpreted.
Thank you Dave Raggett
those quotations are from page 2 and 3 of the full text of the study respectively
Thank you Dave Raggett
Bipolar Disorder, Psychosis and Schizophrenia for Dummies who know a little physics etc.
Life is generally in a good position when it has potential (like gravitational potential in the case of high ground) and the capacity to use it in a controlled fashion. That means balancing in a position that would otherwise be considered an unstable equilibrium in the sense of dynamical systems theory. Our bodies are at their most efficient when well balanced (just watch a good dancer to see this in action) and our brains are at their best when similarly balanced. If something disturbs the equilibrium, this disturbance and the required correction can be used to understand the disturbance. This is how stimulation affects us.
Now consider a simple example of a balancing physical object, but with no control mechanism: a spinning top. This has three states--spinning upright (when the gravitational potential is near its maximum), wobbling (when the gravitational potential is slightly lower, in which case it behaves erratically and gives up its energy randomly until...) finally we have the fallen over state. This is what medical people term depression. The simple solution is to get upright and balanced again, but this is hard in our modern overly complex society, and the result of trying to get up is often a lot of wobbling, which gets diagnosed as things like mania, psychosis and schizophrenia depending on how exactly this wobbling manifests itself. The key is to get balanced before you get pushed over, and that is hard when the medical mental health people seem to have the idea that you fix a wobbling spinning top by knocking it over and gluing it to the floor.
Trying to understand mental health in a 'sum of the parts' way is just dumb, but it is the obsession of the medical fraternity, and is to the extent that it is politically very difficult to suggest otherwise. How our genetic code creates us is an approach that misses the point that without the environmental context in which that genetic code develops, it won't develop, so you need to understand the environment as well (and that means understanding the entire world in complete detail, which is rather a long way the other side of impossible).
Viewed as an equilbrium seeking system, 'mental illnesses' like mania and schizophrenia are just seen as things like oscillations and resonant modes that are being excited by either an appropriate drive, or are resonating within the equilibrium seeking system. The biological stuff is just an implementation detail in much the way that transistors on a chip are implementation details of your python program that you are running that you can safely ignore in most cases. Medication is basically trying to solve a software problem by randomly pumping noise into the processor. A computer will crash instantly if you do this, but humans are rather more robust, and can survive for a long time in an unbalanced state. They are, however, rather unproductive in this state and won't tend to find life enjoyable. But they can survive for a long time, but can become desperate to get out of such states.
John_Chalisque
...they're looking for a way to introduce and re-legitimise the term "sociopath" so it sews up the trainwreck that is the DSM.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Probably at least a few of those sub-disorders are actually nutritional deficiencies. We have this myth (perpetuated by MDs who have ZERO training in nutrition) that we don't have nutritional deficiencies in America. In fact, the American diet is horrible, and we all know it. B12 deficiencies are common (which is one of the reasons shots are often prescribed), as are deficiencies in magnesium, along with numerous other vitamins and minerals. Since the mid 90's, the FDA has mandated "enrichment" of foods, but the forms of the additives are NOT the biologically active forms, so some people have trouble processing them. For instance, MTHFR gene defects are common (my wife and I have different ones, and she has the really bad C677T defect), making folic acid (which is artificial) range from useless to poisonous to some people who need to take methylfolate instead. In fact, since the mid 90's a lot of people have reported declines in their health, which may be correlated with that FDA mandate (although without a more complete study, we have to assume this is anecdotal and COULD be correlated more strongly with something else).
Anyhow, my point is that many psychological disorders, such as bipolarism, are associated with vitamin deficiencies. If you look at the symptoms lists of various B vitamin deficiencies, for instance, you'll see that it is already established what kinds of psychological effects can occur in cases of "extreme" deficiencies. If we can get past the idea that nobody in America can have extreme vitamin deficiencies (you can have plenty of some vitamin but still be anemic if you can't USE it in that form), then we can start treating mental disorders using carefully controlled diets and supplement schedules. I'm sure it won't work on everyone, but it would be insane to not try it in place of loading people up on antipsychotics because the "doctors" are mental hospitals have no fucking clue about nutrition.
And just to reinforce, folic acid is basically poison to about 10% of humans. Different vegetables contain methylfolate and/or folinic acid, NOT folic acid. Defects in the genes that code enzymes that convert folinic acid and folic acid are more common than most food allergies, making this a serious problem!
One interesting side-effect of this is the proliferation of the bad genes. People with homozygous C677T mutation have about a 30% conversion rate from folic acid to methylfolate. (Meanwhile the unconverted folic acid itself interferes with the methylation cycle.) If a woman gets pregnant and takes folic acid in large quantities (which is what doctors instruct), the fetus will take all of the methylfolate, and the mother will get very sick. Meanwhile the fetus will be allowed to develop when otherwise it would have naturally aborted due to an inability on its own to convert folinic acid that you get from food. As a result, we have more people born with this defect, while people in the FDA and the medical profession are too ignorant of the consequences to deal with them properly. Mind you, if they were to take more methylfolate, the viability of this defect would increase, but at least the mothers wouldn't get as sick.
The analytics that went into this research have wide ranging application potential. This could be the tipping point for full exploitation of genetic markers in a wide range of medical/genetic diagnostics. It may not be as easy to build as say a single test like BRAC, but I could envision a series of grouped diagnostics markers that could be funneled into a matrix that would show the probability disease. Also, this is an excellent example of government (TAX) money well spent on research. Thank you NIH.
Are you sure it's not just two people in the same household whose personalities rub off on each other?
if it is such common knowledge, you should easily be able to point me to some sort of proof
lets see it...show me proof
also, after you paste a link to support your claim, I'd like for you to addess this as well: you're taking a complex situation, over-simplifying it, then telling me all the ways it becomes complex but just using your own rhetoric
in one sense, i agree, everyone knows that your genes determine characteristics...but people like you ignore that it is **common knowledge** that many factors influence "who we are"...environment...personal choices,...just as salient, if not more, than genetics
Thank you Dave Raggett
ok...compare "schizophrenia" as you are trying to explain it to something like hemophilia
some disorder that is not based on perception of behavior
so...hemophilia...the English royal family famously inbred so much that hemophilia became a problem genetically
is hemophilia "heritable" or is it "caused" by genetics...show me in comparison to hemophilia how schizophrenia is "heritable" and "genetic"
Thank you Dave Raggett
An utopia is not nevessaryly good and most definitely does not start with an 'Eu'.
But perhaps not yor fault that americans don't know/care how to pronounce the 'eu' correctly, hint: 'joy' - 'eu' is pronounced correctly like the 'oy' in the enlish word 'joy'.
And no, Zeus, is not pronounced Zoooooos!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The word "utopia" comes from the Greek "eu" + "topos", i.e. "good place". The English spelling "utopia" is supposed to preserve the pun of confusing eutopia with "ou" + "topos", "no place".
I don't know about modern Greek pronunciations, but in Attic Greek, "eu" wouldn't have been pronounced as 'oy', as in the enlish word 'joy'. At least not as far as I've ever heard. It would have been more like the "eu" in the english word "feud". My recollection is that the pun is used in Platonic dialogues, though I wouldn't be able to remember where it appears.
you linked me to "schizophrenia.com"...which is sort of like linking me to "antivaxer.com" to as evidence vaccinations cause autism
you even admit it yourself: "Some of those links include actual cites from scientific studies, by the way"
how do you know that? how do you know those links cite scientific studies? did you see it yourself?
so you looked at these articles, saw that they had actual research cited, but you chose **NOT** to copy/paste that information, instead, you chose to copy/paste information that *lacks* that information
if you were trying to be honest in this discussion you would not have linked to those ridiculously questionable sources, and instead found the actual research (if it even exists)
nih info...from the nih.gov page, we can see one of the fallacies of diagnosing disorders with symptoms of "hallucinations" and "strange speech"
religious families...**of course** when the dad is a Pentacostal preacher the likelihood of his kids "hearing demons" skyrockets....***that is not genetic....it is ideological***...it is learned behavior, but even the best studies do not control for this
i want to see how many of these cases are from religious families who believe that a deity speaks to them
just saying that...just saying "God talks to me"...is essentially enough to get you diagnosed as schizophrenic according to the DSM!
if your family members do ***anything*** you are more likely to do it, practically...that is not a genetic link at all
Thank you Dave Raggett
a broader view: http://beyondmeds.com/2014/09/
Sorry, but what is in you ears the difference between 'oy' in joy an 'eu' in feud? For me as a layman there is none. :)
Your deduction of the word utopia is half right: It comes from 'ou' - nothing/none and 'tropia' - place, meaning 'no such place'. But 'ou' is not the same as 'eu', obviously. Hint: there are classic greek 'utopia' novels which make pretty clear what the origion of the word is
How attic greek actually was pronounced, no one knows. But best bet is: similar to modern greek.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I couldn't find it in the article, and I'm not well versed enough in the science to pull it out of a quick scan of the doc.
The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
We have "Schizo-Affective Disorder" in which we get to claim that the various "schizophrenias" and the various mood disorders are just one big unhappy diagnosis!
Makes things easy for the diagnostician - just one diagnosis, and you can prescribe lithium and anti-psychotics to everyone. And then you can pile on more drugs to treat the side-effects from the drug combinations you started with. And then of course, there are the side-effects of the side-effect treating drugs. Eventually you can work your way up to one or two dozen drugs at once.
Seriously - I have relatives that have suffered from this sort of diagnostic abuse.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Sorry, but what is in you ears the difference between 'oy' in joy an 'eu' in feud? For me as a layman there is none.
Well you implied that you weren't American, so maybe it's your accent? Because pronouncing the "eu" like you would in "feud" makes "Zeus" pronounced like "Zoooooos".
How attic greek actually was pronounced, no one knows. But best bet is: similar to modern greek.
Except for the fact that people have studied it quite a lot, and have a pretty good idea of how it was pronounced.
Quite a few men apparently, judging from the ones who have either hit on me or tried to force themselves on me in the last few years.
Of course, you're too busy mentally masturbating with your stupid HOSTS file to realize that the world has changed in the last few decades. Both your hosts file and your attitude towards the LGBT are woefully inadequate and obsolete, apk.
It reminds me of the joke I heard as a kid.
Little Johnny pulls down his pants and says "Ha ha, I have one of these and you don't."
Little Suzie pulls up her skirt and says "Ha ha, my mommy says that with one of these I can get as many of those as I want!"
Jealous much?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Well, than as a german I pronounce feud wrong.
Except for the fact that people have studied it quite a lot, and have a pretty good idea of how it was pronounced.
If that was the case, americans would not pronounce it wrong.
And: you can not study the pronunciation of a DEAD language.
EU is pronounced as the 'oy' in joy, believe it or not.
And Achilles is not pronounced Ak-kill-as. However we get used those absurdities, it only makes watching movies like Troy a pain to the ears.
Two greek protagonists holding up cups of wine and dropping a potion to the ground: "Toooo Zoooooos". The people in the cinema: 'hae?' ... well ... spilling some drinks is a sacrifice to the goods, we all know that. The third time it happens, people murmur: Oh! To Zoys! Thats what they mean ...
If Zeus would be spoken Zoooos, it would be written Zous (in greek letters), but it is not ... ;D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
And: you can not study the pronunciation of a DEAD language.
You can, and people do. In order to study dead languages (or dialects, or accents that no longer exist), linguists can sometimes find old writings from the time and place that describe how things are supposed to be pronounced. That makes things relatively easy. Without those kinds of sources, they can do things like analyze poetry or songs from the time, and figure out how the poetry was supposed to sound. They can look at puns and figure out which words were supposed to sound similar. It may not be a perfect science, but through years of studying these kinds of things, people can get a pretty good idea of how words were pronounced.
EU is pronounced as the 'oy' in joy, believe it or not.
Not in Attic Greek, it's not.
And Achilles is not pronounced Ak-kill-as
Well in the ancient Greek, IIRC, it would have been more like A-kill-e-oos (except the K sound would be a sound that we don't have in English), and Americans tend to pronouncing it as Ak-kill-ees, but that's neither here nor there. It sounds like you're maybe making the mistake of thinking that your German pronunciation is the absolute correct pronunciation, regardless of what language is being spoken or how the original language would have pronounced it.
mistake of thinking that your German pronunciation is the absolute correct pronunciation, regardless of what language is being spoken or how the original language would have pronounced it. ... name one). The only two examples - from my mind - where it is not is english, and according to the writing, but less to the sound: French. However you certainly find native american or south american languages that are not easy to pronounce for germans, or african for that matter ... Thai comes to mind, or Cantonese) :) I can read greek, don't understand much, but can more or less fluently read a text aloud ... no greek complained so far, except for ancient rules of 'stressing' sylables.
Well, first of all, for most languages indeed german is very close to their pronunciations (includes wild examples like Finnish, Japanese, Hungarian, Turkish
And second: I don't make _that_ mistake
So, to paraphrase it, the only ones who have those ridiculous claims about attic greek are americans and to a lower extend englishs.
The rest of the european world, especially the greek, pronounce it as I suggested. So, very strange if one part west of the atlantic deduces that from old songs and the other part east of it deduces the opposite. (Actually the 'american' ... and in this case only the american, not including the UK ... opinion about how latin is spoken is the same: completely ridiculous considering that we have 'reto romanic', romanian, italian, spanish, portuguese as counter examples :) )
However your 'arguing' about how Achilles is spoken, nails it: Achilles is written in greek with the letter X (chi) as the second letter. So any 'k' sound in the middle is simply wrong. :)
Look at the word TeX, a text setting (programming) language and how it is spoken, the 'ch' in our roman transliteration of the greek word Achilles corresponds to the X in TeX and is pronounced likewise
My interpretation is: 100 or more years ago a small clique of american 'scholars' _invented_ the idiotic pronunciations of latin and greek and for some reason they became 'mainstream' or 'school knowledge' in the US ... and since a few decades or even a century no one challenged it. ... unbelievable ... and most of them are habilitated professors in well named universities. Seems american really have trouble to simply read old sources and have the urge to reinvent/retry/reexamine half assed 'ideas' because they believe that is more accurate than an ancient text. And ofc as always the name Leonidas was a pain in the ear, but well, same for any other greek Hero)
(I just saw an old history channel movie about the battle at the Thermopylae, it is so ashaming what nonsense the narrators are claiming
Reminds me a bit about the scene in the movie 'Star Gate' when the main character corrects the wrong translations.
But it is always funny to meet americans on a 'latin conference' proclaiming they can 'speak' latin fluent and everyone is clapping his tights because of their 'accent' ...
Granted however: my impression is much more americans actually _speak_ latin than europeans, only the 'accent' is funny.
Btw, a friend of mine teaches classic greek, however she is a greek ... so perhaps she is 'preoccupied' :)
Sorry, no point in arguing about it. All americans have a 'wrong' school education about how classic greek is pronounced ... I did not really want to make an issue about it, sorry if you actually learned classic greek, was mot meant as an offense.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
no greek complained so far... the only ones who have those ridiculous claims about attic greek are americans and to a lower extend englishs.
Ok, so what I'm taking away from this conversation is simply that you are a highly opinionated person who doesn't know what Attic Greek is. It's a dialect of ancient Greek, and it was not pronounced the same as modern Greek. So when I'm talking about Attic Greek being pronounced in some way, it's not really a sensible argument to say that I'm wrong because modern Greeks pronounce it differently. They're different dialects separated by thousands of years. It would be like insisting that people in Renaissance England used the same pronunciation as the English do today, when we know very factually that they did not.
Your arguments, frankly, are crazy and ignorant, so I don't feel like arguing anymore.
I think it's https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Casteism
I pointed out that a friend of mine is
a) greek
b) teaches modern greek
c) teaches attic / classic greek
I also pointed out that your illusional 'we can deduce how it sounded' is wrong, as there is no way at it would work for a DEAD language. We can only conclude from current pronunciations of similar words or from pronunciations of foreign words in other languages (imported greek words) etc. In rare cases we have dictionaries ...
Further I would simply follow the majority. If one part of the world speaks Zeus like 'Zoys' and the other part speaks it 'Zoos' and the first part of those people is the majority, and lives very close to Greece and is philosophizing about that topic literally since millennia, while the other part is living in the 'new world' and is contemplating this topic since roughly 300 years and is the minority, then it is a safe bet that the 'majority (to which I belong)' is right.
Finally, the absolute no brainer: why should those pairs of letters be pronounced the same:
epsilon ypsilon
eta ypsilon
omega ypsilon
omicron ypsilon
??
Well, depending about which time we speak not all those letters existed anyway, perhaps that leads to further confusion.
Btw: first sentence in the german article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z... 'Aussprache' means pronounciation. And 'klassisch' means 'classic'.
So, yes I was talking about classic greek all the time.
Your arguments, frankly, are crazy and ignorant, so I don't feel like arguing anymore. Ignorant when I'm clearly right? ROFL. But this was an academic/philosophic discussion anyway ... to sad you did not enjoy it.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
We've covered this. You're a crazy German who has somehow assumed that, because you once said something in Greek and your Greek friend didn't criticize you, the German pronunciation of any word in any dialect of any language is proper, and the only people in the world who disagree are English speakers who are somehow all dumber than you.
Once we uncovered that much information, it stopped being worth my time to compose real responses. The fact that you don't believe linguists are capable of studying languages is just the last nail in the coffin. I've read your responses up until now, but I won't read any more. It's a waste of time. I'm guessing you're probably a 12 year-old or a mental case anyway.
Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. ... we germans, and for that matter the greeks really like that.
I assumed you would be speaking or at least read greek and where interested in a civilized dispute about such stuff. I explain you my "thought process" you explain me yours
I did not realize that you are just a pretending asshole, the stuff you claim "I had written" in your last post I actually don't have.
Example:
the German pronunciation of any word in any dialect of any language is proper, and the only people in the world who disagree are English speakers who are somehow all dumber than you.
So, just because you neither can read greek nor speak it, obviously, you have the right to insult, harass even someone whom's arguments you obviously can't follow?
Wow ... but that is /. and I even had you marked green since years ... pft.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.