iOS 8 Review

An anonymous reader writes: Apple is releasing iOS 8 today, and Ars Technica has posted one of their huge, thorough reviews of the updated operating system. They have this to say about the UI: "iOS 8 tries to fit a whole lot more stuff onto a single screen than iOS 7 did. The operating system was clearly developed in anticipation of iPhones with larger screens." The biggest new feature is Extensions: "Older versions of iOS limited what third-party applications could do to communicate with external services and other third-party applications. ... Extensions remove some (but not all) of those barriers." The biggest examples of extensions are custom keyboards, a feature iOS users have been requesting for years. Downsides to iOS 8 include increased storage and processing requirements, which are bad news for older iPhones, and a host of new bugs associated with the new features.

Comments

Nerd fight

[Anonymous Coward]

It would sure be nice if this thread didn't devolve into an Android/Apple pissing contest. Can we at least give it a shot?

Re:Nerd fight

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you new here?

Re:Nerd fight

[Anonymous Coward]

No, New Here quit posting some time ago (sadly).

Re: Nerd fight

[loufoque]

Was it the beta or the broken moderation system that drove him away?

Re:Nerd fight

[ArhcAngel]

BlackBerry Rulz!

How's that?

Re:Nerd fight

[ArhcAngel]

Ahh how quickly they forget.

Re:Nerd fight

[fyngyrz]

My palm TX sees your blackberry and drops the bar several inches all at once. :)

Re:Nerd fight

[Joshua Fan]

My Nokia 2610 beats the tar out of every smartphone in the drop test arena AND I don't have to worry about whether I charged it today. Dumbphone > deadphone.

Re:Nerd fight

[boskone]

Sure.

Let's focus on PalmOS, Blackberry and Windows Phone flamewars

Re: Nerd fight

[geekmux]

Was it the beta or the broken moderation system that drove him away?

As I glance up at my "nobeta" URL on the only internet site proudly owning the meme Fuck Beta, you're really asking this question?

Re:Nerd fight

[Tough Love]

It would sure be nice if this thread didn't devolve into an Android/Apple pissing contest.

So true, why waste time on that when walled garden vs open is so much more interesting.

Re:Nerd fight

[Tough Love]

I don't think it's quite there yet, to be honest.

Re:Nerd fight

[MaryAnnEvans]

That's a motorola phone, not an Apple phone. Licensing the ability to play Fairplay DRM does not an Apple product make.

Re:Nerd fight

[chipschap]

I would have started dumping on Apple but when Google put the "feature" in Kitkat to disallow general write permission to the SD card, effectively making an SD card almost worthless unless you root your Android phone, I had to admit that there is enough guilt to go around.

Oh, wait, what's that you say? Apple phones don't have a provision for an SD card?

Re:Nerd fight

[Anonymous Freak]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!!

The negativity of all the quotes bits should have clued you off.

Re:Nerd fight

[Anonymous Freak]

I like that he has a six-digit ID... New Here is older than the vast majority of /.ers.

Re:Nerd fight

[Spamalope]

It would sure be nice if this thread didn't devolve into an Android/Apple pissing contest. Can we at least give it a shot?

Ok, I'll try. Ars Technica for the article? After the gamergate SJW coverage there, I figured Conde Nast merged it with Jezebel. If the old Ars covered something Apple it would have been the tech in a new arm chip, display tech or the like. You know, news for nerds - where the 'technica' came from in the name. Now it's techinca the way MTV is music videos.

Re:Nerd fight

[ArhcAngel]

That was the original iPhone. Apple commissioned Motorola to build it. Steve Jobs wasn't happy with the end product and terrorized his design team to come up with something better. the first touch screen iPhone abandoned battery life which was the metric all phones were graded on until the iPhone. It caught the entire industry off guard that people were all the sudden willing to give up battery life for the new shiny. Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.

Re:Nerd fight

[Keyboard Rage]

Drop test? My 2610 has survived getting accidentally catapulted through a room and bouncing over the floor (hint: don't swing a bag around while it's open, things might escape...), dropping off a conveyor belt at a customs gate (landing screen-first on the stone floor, which lead the security guy on duty to freak out because most smartphones apparently shatter to pieces), getting totally drenched in heavy rain repeatedly (water usually ends up under the battery...), falling in a toilet and being submerged (making the same sound as a good turd dropping in the water), getting trod on (by humans, chairs, tables, and a car), and much, much more. It survives with only a few major scratches on the clear plastic covering the screen, and in 2 years it will be a decade old. Try that with a smartphone.

Re:Nerd fight

[Anonymous Coward]

No support for SD cards on the iPhone still. But does the new iOS update allow simple drag and drop of files onto the iPhone with a USB or WiFi tether? Or do I still need to use iTunes to upload my music to the iPhone?

Re:Nerd fight

[GuB-42]

iOS and Android are sealing from each other now.
This is a good thing for users of both parties.

Re:Nerd fight

[MaryAnnEvans]

That was the original iPhone. Apple commissioned Motorola to build it.... Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.

Then you are doomed to repeat it, because you don't know what you are talking about.

1) ROKR was nothing to do with the iPhone.
2) Apple don't do design commissions for anyone. They only design their own products.
3) If Apple had designed the ROKR it wouldn't have looked like that.
4) iPhone was already in development at the time of the ROKR launch.
5) Motorola were still producing new phones in their ROKR line after the iPhone launched.

the first touch screen iPhone abandoned battery life which was the metric all phones were graded on until the iPhone. It caught the entire industry off guard that people were all the sudden willing to give up battery life for the new shiny.

I've owned smartphones since the late 90s. They've always been charge every night. Dumb phones last about a week. And feature phones somewhere in between. It;s one of the tradeoffs that consumers make when they decide how sophisticated a phone they want. This didn't change with the iPhone. That you think it did only means that you were new to smartphones about the time of the iPhone, or sometime later.

Re:Nerd fight

[ArhcAngel]

You're funny...I was the mobile device manager for a large energy company at the time. I had an HTC Wizard (Windows Mobile 5), a Palm Treo, and a BlackBerry 8700 all strapped to my belt testing them for the company. Everyone wanted the new Windows Mobile phones but as soon as they would get them they would return them. Why? The battery wouldn't last a day and their old BlackBerry could go two weeks without a charge. I follow the industry closely and read about the Apples iTunes phone the ROKR months before it was released. I got to play with one and was underwhelmed. But it did have pretty good battery life...compared to the iPhone.

Re:Nerd fight

[MaryAnnEvans]

And I'm a software engineer who has worked on creating several smartphones for more than one manufacturer.

The Blackberry 8700 only qualifies as a feature phone. (It used J2ME; it doesn't allow native third party apps.) And that's why it has feature phone expectations of battery life. And don't bother trying to link to things saying it was a smartphone - most of the world is ignorant as to what qualifies a device as a smartphone - I'm well aware there are plenty of people who wrongly identify many feature phones as smartphones.

As to your press release it makes it quite clear that Apple only provided the music functionality of the ROKR. (The FairPlay DRM and the integration with the iTunes Mac and PM app.) They didn't design the phone. If you believe otherwise you didn't understand what was going on.

Re:Nerd fight

[ArhcAngel]

And I'm a software engineer who has worked on creating several smartphones for more than one manufacturer.

So you admit you can't keep a job?

The Blackberry 8700 only qualifies as a feature phone. (It used J2ME; it doesn't allow native third party apps.)

So since it ran mobile JAVA instead of allowing applications to be programmed to directly access the hardware it is only a feature phone? Some would call that a security feature...and exactly what I expect from a security focused company. Anybody could write software for the 8700 and install it without carrier or manufacturer approval. In fact Android apps are running on DALVIK or ART which are just JAVA clones! So by your definition Android phones are not smartphones

A feature phone only allows applications be installed through the carrier or manufacturer...like the iPhone.

The more you post the less intelligent you sound. Just admit you didn't know Apple was involved so heavily with the ROKR and move on.

Re:Nerd fight

[MaryAnnEvans]

So you admit you can't keep a job?

You're quite childish to be a manager. I'm beginning to doubt even that claim.

So since it ran mobile JAVA instead of allowing applications to be programmed to directly access the hardware it is only a feature phone? Some would call that a security feature...and exactly what I expect from a security focused company. Anybody could write software for the 8700 and install it without carrier or manufacturer approval. In fact Android apps are running on DALVIK or ART which are just JAVA clones! So by your definition Android phones are not smartphones

And you don't understand what Java2ME is nor what it's limitations are. Hint: you can do very little of what DALVIK can do with J2ME. It's an extremely tight sandbox. You never had any job that required any serious knowledge of mobile devices, because you don't have any such knowledge.

Obviously you're going to make another childish post now. Feel free, you're not worth my time.

No good for older iPhones

[Jabrwock]

It adds so much cruft, it slows down the iPhone 4/4S to the point where it's barely usable. So I'll be skipping this update. They did the same with iOS 7. First update added a ton of fluff. First patch fixed a lot of the slowdown issues with the older phones.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[DigiShaman]

I have an iPhone 5. When iOS 7 was released, the main features that pulled pep from my phone was the motion visual effect. Turning it off made a huge difference. Can be found under -Settings --> Accessibility --> Reduce Motion (ON). Hopefully the iOS performance hit is mainly video related so as to turn off whatever advance feature chews through cycles. If it's the kernel itself taxing the CPU, yeah, pretty much screwed.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the update is not for iPhone 4.

Also, you can cure a lot of upgrade-related slowdown on the 4 by doing an iTunes backup, factory resetting, and restoring backup. I just did so and cured all my slowdown.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not installable on the iPhone 4 - only the 4S and above.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[neoritter]

If you have Verizon or like to switch, they're supposedly giving away 6's with a two year contract if you trade in your old iPhone.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[ArhcAngel]

If you have Verizon or like to switch, they're supposedly giving away 6's with a two year contract if you trade in your old iPhone.

The 6s won't be out until September of 2015.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[neoritter]

6 apostrophe s

Re:No good for older iPhones

[DiamondGeezer]

It adds so much cruft, it slows down the iPhone 4/4S to the point where it's barely usable

Ah yes, exactly what happened to the iPhone 3G and the original iPad. It's a form of post-purchase sabotage by Apple to drive people to upgrade their expensive hardware for more expensive hardware.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[DiamondGeezer]

Which means that you have been abandoned, just like iPhone 3G and iPad 1.

Don't ya just love Apple?

Re:No good for older iPhones

[joh]

Which 2010 phone isn't abandoned? Will the first Samsung Galaxy S get Android L?

Re:No good for older iPhones

[phayes]

Awww, poor guy, he got 3-4 years of use & upgrades out of his old iDevices. It's soo much better on Android where most devices are sold with outdated firmware & never updated. Not just abandoned but orphaned at birth.

Re: No good for older iPhones

[Redbehrend]

Not true they just had an article on one of the Android sites how roms, are allowing old androids to run great pretty much till the hardware dies. This is also possible with apple if they allowed people in. They will have to one day whether is in a year or 10 I dunno. They allow things they would have never before like amazon music where they beat them price wise on about everything.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[geekoid]

''''''

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Coward]

(Shrug) I don't want Apple spending resources on supporting 10-year-old cell phones, and constraining their OS to run on them.

Buy your phone from somebody else if that's what you want, maybe try Fisher-Price.

Re: No good for older iPhones

[peragrin]

However none of those are officially supported. You can get a warranty on a 4s with iOS 8.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[antdude]

I wonder if Apple will be able to optimize iOS 8 for the older iDevices like iPhone 4S. Avoiding 8 for now...

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Freak]

Find me an Android from 2010 that can run KitKat.

Find me more than two Android devices that got KitKat on launch day.

Yes, Apple ruthless abandons old devices. But you KNOW it's happening. The iPad 1 was the only "surprise! We discontinued support earlier than you thought!" device, but even then, you knew when iOS 6 was first announced that it was going to happen. And if you get support, you get it on day 1. Today, the iPhone 4S and newer, iPad 2 and newer, and iPod touch 5 all get iOS 8.

Android devices are a complete mixed bag. You may get good support for 2-3 years, you might get screwed with zero updates ever. You might get the update on day 1, you might get it 6 months later.

Android has many ways it is far superior to iOS, but release reliability and long-term device support are *NOT* among them.

Re: No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Freak]

Yup, and I have alternate ROMs for my original iPhone that adds essentially all the features of iOS 7 (obviously excepting things that are missing in hardware, of course.)

Re:No good for older iPhones

[jpellino]

Have it on my 8GB 4s. It's fine. Had to do it cabled in stead of OTA (needs 4.6GB free to install OTA), but it's working like it did before plus new features. Just pushed through a lab's worth of iPad2 and it's fine there too.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Wovel]

Seriously. Your complaining that stopped providing updates for devices more than 4 years old. Interesting position in a world where you can go out and buy a brand new Android device today and have a 50% chance of ending up with something that will never support the current version of Android. Forget about any of them ever supporting a future version.

How do people come up with this ridiculous stuff.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[radarskiy]

This is exactly the no-win situation I have pointed out here before when people complained about upgrades not being allowed for older hardware.

If Apple does not provide the upgrade for older devices, then they are accused of artificially restricting the upgrade to force sales of newer devices. If Apple does provided the upgrade for older devices, then they are accused of artificially crippling the upgrade to force sales of newer devices.

Since no matter which choice Apple went with they would be accused of artificially forcing sales of newer devices, you cannot used their choice as proof that they are or are not artificially forcing sales of newer devices.

How good would the performance have to be on older devices to stop the accusations that they are artificially crippling it? I submit that there is no limit and that no matter how good it worked Apple would be accused of artificially crippling it.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[samwichse]

I've got KitKat on my Google Nexus S (released 2010, albeit in December).

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Coward]

6 apostrophe s

That mean "belonging to the 6", not plural. This is one of the worst abuses of the apostrophe.

Why not say they will give you a 6 if you trade in your old iPhone - avoids the problem entirely.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[knarf]

Find me an Android from 2010 that can run KitKat.

I'm using one right now!

It currently runs Android 4.4.4, it remains to be seen whether it'll survive to the next ('Android L') release. Some manufacturers claim this won't be possible because of lack of support for the OMAP3 in that release but time will tell whether we'll manage on getting it to run decently anyway.

Re:No good for older iPhones

[Anonymous Coward]

The real problem is that they do not allow downgrades, once you upgrade to a sucky version you're dead!

Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[MatthiasF]

You could lose everything in your iCloud backups:

http://www.macworld.com/articl...

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[Anonymous Coward]

You could lose everything in your iCloud backups:

4chan and reddit will keep a copy for you.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[binarylarry]

Yeah I upgraded my iPhone and ALL of my pictures were replaced with U2 promo shots.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[ruir]

I upgraded from 7 to 8 three weeks ago, and have not lost any iCloud data so far.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "lose everything" you mean "lose ability to sync between iOS and OS X until 10.10 releases."

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I upgraded my iPhone and ALL of my pictures were replaced with U2 porno shots.

Not even 4chan wants to see Bono naked.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[sexconker]

Rule 34 Request:
Steve Jobs's corpse and Paul David Hewson

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why I always back up my iOS device to my local library before doing a major upgrade.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[tepples]

Or "lose ability to sync between iOS and OS X period if your Mac running 10.9 is too old for 10.10".

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[MatthiasF]

How long have you been on Slashdot? No one reads links without a dire, inaccurate scare statement attached.

Re:Be careful upgrading iCloud Drive

[thechink]

If you Mac can run 10.9 it can run 10.10. Apple hasn't obsoleted any Mac hardware since the release of Mountain Lion in 2012.

Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh thank lord! Oh wait, never cared. Who's been requesting this for years?

Re:Keyboard

[AuMatar]

Anyone who ever used an android phone. Swype, Swiftkey, and others do an amazing job. Apple lacks continuous path typing (Swype-like paths to type) which is in every major Android keyboard these days and used by hundreds of millions of people as a faster alternative to thumb typing. Apple's autocorrect is mediocre, Swiftkey and Swype/Nuance kick its ass. And the keyboard does matter- its the most used app on the phone- you use it in texting, emails, even browsing. If it isn't a good experience people will not use your device. Apple lost millions of users who wouldn't consider switching due to the lack of options on iOS. The question is if they're now to embedded into the Android world to be willing to change. I'm guessing Apple lost them permanently by being 4 or 5 years too late with opening up the keyboards api.

Re:Keyboard

[Archangel Michael]

The crappy keyboard is one of the biggest reasons I hate my iPad. It is almost unusable for me. There is a reason why all the autocorrect humor is screenshots of iOS.

Re:Keyboard

[DJCouchyCouch]

That's right on the money. All that was stopping millions (and millions!) from going to Apple was a customizable keyboard. And Apple's lost them forever, because of the Android store lock-in.

But seriously, I'd say the keyboard providers will make more money on iOS now than on Android.

Re:Keyboard

[AuMatar]

Highly doubt it. I worked at Swype. We had deals at the OEM level and shipped preinstalled. That means we made money on every phone shipped. (Some of those deals fell apart post buyout, because the buyer was hard to deal with). They won't get that deal from Apple. So they may make more money per download, or get more paid downloads. But they won't make more money overall.

Re:Keyboard

[geekoid]

what is crappy about it?
How does it relate to autocorrect software?

Re:Keyboard

[windwalkr]

For me, it's crappy because the autocorrect commonly changes what I intend into something that I don't intend. After several years, I gave up and turned off autocorrect, which is a partial solution- but the keyboard was really built with autocorrect in mind, and is below mediocre with autocorrect disabled.

I can't comment on the Android keyboards.

Re:Keyboard

[CastrTroy]

I know there's a lot of hate for Windows 8, but the onscreen keyboard for my Surface 2 (RT) is probably the best on screen keyboard I've ever used. I simply can't stand my Android phone keyboard anymore. I don't have an iDevice, but whenever I go to use my wife's iPad, I cringe at how bad that keyboard is. Always showing the keys in capitals so you can never figure out if you are typing in capitals is probably the most annoying part. Having left and right arrow buttons on the default keyboard for the Surface helps out so much. Also, having Ctrl key is extremely nice because I can use Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+Z, just like I would on a regular keyboard.Tab needs 2 clicks, but it's still much easier than clicking on the next form field. You can switch to the full keyboard for those times when you really want access to all the keys, although I don't use it all the time. The iOS and Android keyboards might work OK on small screen 4-5 phones, but on a 10 inch tablet, where you have the extra room, there really should be some extended functionality. The iPad keyboard really needs to be different than the iPhone keyboard.

Re:Keyboard

[Dixie_Flatline]

I think you're overselling it somewhat. I've tried the swype systems, and I always devolve to just tapping. Same with my friends that have access to it. Out of 4 of us, all of us hate swype based systems. That's not data, obviously, it's just an anecdote. But I've yet to see anyone stop using the keyboard, let alone a phone, just because the keyboard isn't what they expect. (The lone exception being people that like hardware keyboards. They will stick with a sub-standard phone just for the better typing experience.)

I would also question whether Apple has ever lost anyone permanently that wasn't lost from the start. I've seen a lot of people in comment threads today consider Apple's phones again because it was *screen size* that was holding them back.

I've actually always really liked the Apple keyboard; I have a lot fewer problems with it than other people, though I couldn't tell you why. I borrowed a Nexus 4 and hated the keyboard (and didn't want to install a new one for the short time that I had it) but my hate of the keyboard wasn't actually a dealbreaker even if I'd had to use it forever. If I'd liked other things about the phone, I would've put up with the keyboard I didn't like, no question.

It's a fair opinion to have, but I really don't see any evidence for the grandiose claims you're making.

Re:Keyboard

[Your.Master]

Autocorrect is built into their soft keyboard, n'est-ce pas?

Re:Keyboard

[Archangel Michael]

Tapping a keyboard three times to type special character. No Swype. Caps always showing, regardless of actual capitalization. All but Unusable with one hand (one handed typing jokes aside). Auto Correct that guesses wrong more often than it should. The interface is not as intuitive as Apple or iOS users claim it is, IMHO.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you get use to it, it's hard to not have it.

I still type a lot of my words, but it really speeds up my typing by being able to quickly swype.

I typically only use swype for words around 4 characters in length. Common words that I type a lot.

This isn't something that you'll catch onto after only a couple of uses. It takes some time.

Also, if these were an Apple invention, it would be considered the best thing since sliced bread by most Apple users. Instead, all I ever hear is Apple fans downplaying, saying they don't like it, acting like it's just a gimmick.

Once they have the ability to actually change their default keyboard, they're going to f*ing love it.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to moderate you up until you said 'substandard phone'. I know you meant BB. They are actually quite good phones and I'm looking forward to the new version. The big square one. It does make sense to me. One of my biggest issues with phones is the narrowness of the screen, or when turned sideways, the shallowness of it. The biggest issue with the BBs right now is not the phone, but market momentum, which I can see you are helping with. :) BB has improved a ton and is on par with their competitors (the market is fickle and not always willing to admit things like this). I think the best thing for BB was for the original founders to step aside since they were the reason it didn't keep up; they got too big for their britches and didn't pay attention to market demand. Unfortunately the successor RIM/BB found for them was a dud. This new guy seems OK but underneath kind of bugs me because he almost seems like he is trying to line the company's parts up for sale in stealth mode.

Disclaimer: I do own an Android (and like it) because the projects I was working on were Android based. But I will be looking at the new BB coming out soon.

I tried an Apple tablet (iPad Air) and hated it. Too restrictive, no USB support, etc etc. Got a Samsung Note 10.1 2014 it's OK, but since they made it very difficult to substitute a custom ROM I won't buy Samsung again (not to mention their absolutely terrible customer support when the screen failed and the CSR accused me of dropping it and said, "you know, it's not under warranty if the screen is broken, you have to take it where you bought it and have them send it in to make sure the screen isn't broken so that you can't accuse the shipping company of breaking it... the screen wasn't broken and it was never dropped... Samsung support sucks royally). I'll buy Nexus next time, so I can put Cyanogenmod on at my leisure... wish they had a ROM for my P600 but it isn't even on their radar it seems.

Re:Keyboard

[Dixie_Flatline]

Yes and no. I actually really think the (new) BB phones are pretty neat. I like that with BB10, they really swung for the fences with the interface design. To an extent, it's a crippled ecosystem and that's not really about the OS any more. They missed the boat. (That said, people will stick with very old BB phones because they can't give up the keyboard. By most measures, they're really not good phones any more.)

No, I'm talking about all sorts of other phones--Android ones, honestly. People will put up with a really garbage phone just because it has a physical keyboard.

I've got a lot more respect for Blackberry than, say, Samsung. Samsung capitalised on an opportunity and makes a lot of money, but they've never, ever had the focus or innovation of Apple and Blackberry.

Re:Keyboard

[geekmux]

For me, it's crappy because the autocorrect commonly changes what I intend into something that I don't intend. After several years, I gave up and turned off autocorrect, which is a partial solution- but the keyboard was really built with autocorrect in mind...

Perhaps you have extra-large thumbs, but how exactly is a keyboard "built" with the assumption that someone will be misspelling a word on a device that supports dozens of languages?

Oddly enough, I can't seem to find a definition for "QWERTY" that doesn't pertain the the very keyboard layout that birthed it's name in any dictionary...

Re:Keyboard

[Dixie_Flatline]

I type one handed all the time while walking on my iPhone. Autocorrect guesses correctly more often than not.

The new shift key is 100% garbage, though. You have to wonder which exec at Apple has made that their pet feature. That's the only possible way that such a wholly unintuitive thing still exists. I've yet to meet a single Apple user, no matter how partisan, claim that the iOS 7 shift key makes even the slightest bit of sense.

Re:Keyboard

[MaryAnnEvans]

I worked at Swype.

Which rather puts the importance of Swype that you claimed in the previous post in perspective... I've seen lots of people typing on Android phones whilst standing on packed commuter trains. I've never seen a single one that was dragging across the keys rather than tapping.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

moron. plain and simple. you are a complete fucking moron.

Re:Keyboard

[MaryAnnEvans]

There is a reason why all the autocorrect humor is screenshots of iOS.

Most. And the reason is because most of the people who actually want to use a smartphone for communication buy iPhones.

Android is dominated by those who just buy the cheapest phones, and FOSS enthusiasts who don't have any friends other than those faceless individuals on IRC and mailing lists.

Re:Keyboard

[MaryAnnEvans]

Caps always showing, regardless of actual capitalization.

You mean like a typewriter, or a computer keyboard? You seem to be confusing useful features with the quirks of your own phone.

Re: Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

And I've exclusively used Swype for several years now. My evidence is stronger than yours right right?

Re:Keyboard

[windwalkr]

Fairly average (for a male) hand span, and slim fingers/thumbs. The iPhone keyboard simply isn't built for precise key hits. There are lots of smarts to allow you to type reasonably well regardless, but this assumes that you're typing normal English sentences (and statistically common phrases) and the more you vary from that pattern, the more likely it is to take your typing and produce something garbled or (worse) exactly negate your meaning. I eventually found that retyping any actual mistakes was less frustrating than retyping something that was entered correctly but that the iPhone "corrected" to something else.

Your comment about supporting dozens of languages is way off; the keyboard only supports a single language at a time, and you need to explicitly swap languages (which also swaps the dictionary / auto-correct mechanism.)

Re: Keyboard

[Redbehrend]

Doesn't the apple keyboard not even show when your using caps or did they finally change that?

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

On a large screen you `d install something like the hacker keyboard.

Re:Keyboard

[UnknowingFool]

The problem with Windows 8 wasn't that it didn't work well for a tablet. The problem was it was a terrible interface for a desktop.

Re:Keyboard

[Dixie_Flatline]

*sniff* An anon doesn't like my opinion but has no ability to hold a conversation and discuss anything on their own merits. I'm so sad. :( :( :(

Re:Keyboard

[geekoid]

I disagree.
I love my Win 8 desktop. Much quicker to get to or do anything.

Re:Keyboard

[rHBa]

FWIW, I use "hacker keyboard" on my Nexus 7 (7 inch screen), it has all the important stuff in landscape mode (Tab, Ctrl, Delete, cursor keys, number keys a la laptop KB and symbols in the same place just a shift away) and a more minimal layout in portrait mode. (fewer keys but bigger buttons).

Re:Keyboard

[c]

I think you're overselling it somewhat. I've tried the swype systems, and I always devolve to just tapping. Same with my friends that have access to it. Out of 4 of us, all of us hate swype based systems. That's not data, obviously, it's just an anecdote.

I think the GP is overselling it a bit too, but I've been using the standard Android keyboard for a bit now, which includes swype-like typing, and I'd have a tough time switching back to just tapping. It's substantially faster and generally as accurate as tapping and quite a bit better than any miniature hardware keyboard I've tried. I don't know that if it wasn't built if I'd have bothered downloading Swype or Swiftkey, but it's nice to have the option.

In some ways, it reminds me of the difference between Newton HWR and Palm Graffiti; you had to learn some new patterns to use Graffiti, but when you got used to it, it was light years ahead of the performance of the natural handwriting recognition of the Newton.

Re: Keyboard

[AuMatar]

THe shift key changes state slightly- colors in blue when manually capped, outlines blue when in autocaps mode. But no, it doesn't show on the keys.

Re:Keyboard

[AuMatar]

I doubt you paid much attention to this. I do, I've been developing keyboards for 5 years now. Some of those at Swype, some at a second startup (I left Swype a few months after the buyout and have had neither residuals nor stock in the company or its new owner since May 2012), and now well its still on keyboards but I'm under NDA preventing me from stating where. Do all Android users use continuous path input? Of course not. Not even a majority. But a very solid percentage do, and a majority of those wouldn't use a device without it for a phone sized device (answers differ on large tablets where swyping isn't as efficient). So no, I don't think I oversold the importance of the technology- its a blocking issue for millions of people moving to iOS. Would they have moved had it been available when they were making their OS choice? Some large percentage of them would have. Will they now? Who knows- now they're locked in by various apps and expected behavior. We'll see.

Re:Keyboard

[Graymalkin]

My anecdotal data is the opposite of yours. The Surface/Windows 8 onscreen keyboard is absolutely awful compared to the iOS keyboard, even on the iPad.

I hate that the keyboard layout changes when I hit the number/symbol key. Being left handed the number pad being on the right side of the screen is ridiculous and I have to readjust my grip to type numbers. The Shift key also does not reset when returning from the symbol/number mode. So if you need to type XX-xx you need a lot of extra keystrokes and grip readjustment (or at least I do). I've never minded the key labels being capitalized on iOS since they're also capitalized on physical keyboards. It's plain to see when and where capital characters will be typed.

The Windows keyboard is also really uncomfortable to use in portrait orientation (Windows 8 is generally uncomfortable in portrait orientation). On the iPad the keyboard is much more usable in landscape orientation than the Windows keyboard is in portrait.

Issues of meta keys being available is simply a difference between Windows 8 and iOS. There's no need for meta keys to access functionality in iOS because everything is designed for touch. Windows 8 is keeping around DOS keyboard shortcuts on a touchscreen.

Re:Keyboard

[Everest87]

Android keyboards change capitalization based on whether or not you have activated Shift or Caps Lock for around 3 years now.

Re: Keyboard

[Centurix]

Frustrating. I had to setup a friends iPad to connect to a network, couldn't easily tell if I was typing upper-case or lower-case for each character. Took a couple of attempts before realising that the keys don't change case on the screen keyboard.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually had to look at my keyboard while typing this to realize you were right. I can see how people would be confused by the capital letter, until they got used to the keyboard and didn't need to look at it.

Re:Keyboard

[AmiMoJo]

Swipe keyboards take a little getting used to but it's worth spending a few days forcing yourself to use one because in the end they are so much faster. The stock Android keyboard actually has a really good implementation.

The Google Japanese keyboard is excellent too. Like the English keyboard it mines the interwebs for data, so knows a lot of acronyms and slang that I had to teach other keyboards.

Re:Keyboard

[Dog-Cow]

+1000

The shift key is, hands-down, the one aspect of iOS 7 (and 8) that annoys me more than anything.

On the bright side, iOS 8 borrows the suggestion feature from Android, and that makes getting the correct word much easier and faster. It will even try to help with typos and will suggest common phrases.

Re:Keyboard

[Wovel]

Are you like the same person posting on 5 different accounts? There can't possibly be more than one person in the world that struggles to figure out what case the ios keyboard is in.

Re:Keyboard

[AmiMoJo]

iOS makes you work harder than necessary to get things done. For example, there is no app tray. All apps just get dumped on the home screen after installation and you have to organise them yourself. There isn't even an alphabetical list unless you spend time making it yourself.

It seems really odd given how they try to make other stuff low effort. Finding apps is pretty fundamental.

Re:Keyboard

[radarskiy]

"Finding apps is pretty fundamental."

Drag screen down.
Start typing name of app.
Select app from partial search results.

Re:Keyboard

[radarskiy]

"No Swype"

https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap...

"All but Unusable with one hand"
How large of an Android tablet do you type on one handed?

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Your love is shared by only a minority, so in the grander scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.

Windows 8 is a flop, deal with it.

Re: Keyboard

[Goose In Orbit]

My second biggest annoyance with the keyboard this... ...my biggest stems from my being in the UK - Apple obviously never tried entering a UK post code...

letter
letter
switch to number pad - no long press on the top row that I know of
number
number
space
switch back to number pad - because it's assumed you want a letter next
number
letter
letter

My job (partly) involves testing mobile apps - so I have to go through the registration process a lot... utter pain in the proverbials...

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

The notion is that the keys can be smaller because auto-correct will catch the times when the user accidentally hits the adjacent key - hitting Q instead of W in "When".
That's how keyboard design can be dependent upon auto-correct.

Re:Keyboard

[Archangel Michael]

And this is "intuitive"? I have used iOS for a couple years (iPAD) and never seen that used by anyone.

no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[peter303]

Getting too tight with IOS8 in there now

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[guytoronto]

Uh, wut? The entry level iPhone 6 is 16GB.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[geekoid]

That drive me up the wall. Why have an entry level phone? the manufacturing costs between 16 and 64 is tiny. Why support some many phone types? just make 1 64GB phone.

And I ask the in earnest. What data support the cost of different lines vs/ the cost of all of them being 64GB?

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[spire3661]

ITs called leveling or stepping or some shit like that. Its to coax you to step up to the next level at an increased profit margin.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dixie_Flatline]

I ordered the 16GB version because my on-board data needs aren't heavy. I'm near wifi 90% of my life, and so I'm willing to stream or re-download a lot of things on my phone. I've got a 32GB iPad because that needs to store magazines and bigger games and things, but I like my phone to be a bit leaner. Saving $100 for that was totally worth it for me. I wouldn't have objected to a 32GB entry-level, but 16 is fine too.

But some people really love to have EVERYTHING with them. They spend a lot of time travelling or out of wifi range and they've got a limited plan (so do I, actually, but that doesn't matter as much to me). It's the same sort of person that always bought the biggest iPod, so they could carry ALL their music with them at once. Me, I'm happy to have a few playlists and 8 hours of decent music with me at all times, even for long trips. Those people are going to love the 128GB version and be excited to pay the extra $100 over the 64GB version, no question.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[sexconker]

That drive me up the wall. Why have an entry level phone? the manufacturing costs between 16 and 64 is tiny. Why support some many phone types? just make 1 64GB phone.

And I ask the in earnest. What data support the cost of different lines vs/ the cost of all of them being 64GB?

16 GB is there BECAUSE it's a bad choice.
32 GB is NOT there BECAUSE it's a good choice.

People will see the lower price of the 16 GB version and use that price to decide if they want an iPhone 6.
Then when they're getting ready to buy they'll hear / worry that 16 GB isn't enough, so they'll shell out the ridiculous up-charge for the 64 GB model.
The true zealots will buy the 128 GB model despite not needing that much storage.

The cost of maintaining 3 different lines is minimal. The extra income gained by stratifying the models like this is huge.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

"Minimal" means something different when you make and sell the most popular single smart phone line in the world. Jellybean parts that cost a fraction of a cent become a big logistic issue when you're going to ship 10s of millions of units.

16 gig exists because there is demand for a cheap entry level device. 16 gig gets the job done for most people. Cloud-based everything makes it even more realistic for most users.

The other choices are 64 and 128 not because apple is trying to rip everyone off, but because they don't want to sell more than 3 versions of a particular model. dropping the 32 just made the most sense when they crunched the numbers.

Even google is dropping SD card support in android. SD cards are crap. They're unreliable and users tend to blame the phone/google/carrier when their grey market counterfeit sd card they got off ebay makes their phone crash.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[MaryAnnEvans]

16 GB is there BECAUSE it's a bad choice.
32 GB is NOT there BECAUSE it's a good choice.

That's quite a conspiracy theory you have there. One where Apple consciously choose to have a worse product line rather than a better one.

The reality is that when sizing products, 3 varieties is good. Good/better/best. Small/medium/large. Regular/Large/Super-size.

16GB is the smallest reasonable size. Good for people who use the device for phone, messaging and social networks.

128GB is the reasonable top end, that's big enough without being prohibitively expensive.

Which means that they have to chose from 32GB or 64GB for their medium model. If they'd have chosen 32GB you'd have come up with some conspiracy theory for why 64GB was the best choice and was thus withheld.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah, they couldn't make money selling a 32 instead of 16. Bullshit. 32/64/128 makes the most logical sense. But keep on drinking the kool-aid about SD cards. They are still the reason I go with Android. Of course, I only buy SanDisk cards from reputable sellers, but I've never had one (or heard of having one) make someone's "phone crash". You might lose data (music/pictures/video is what mine is used for), but the host OS and system/apps are always stored on the internal flash. Being an iOS zealot, you probably didn't know that, but good job anyway and hopefully next time you can earn your Apple shill bux.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Cramer]

Because they can charge a 1000x markup for that extra flash. When a 64GB mcroSD card can be had for 20$, why should 64GB add hundreds to the cost of a phone? (greed)

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Actually I'm willing to speculate that the reason why it's 16/64/128 isn't for any insane conspiracy theory reason, but rather that Apple may have just gone overboard on the 8 gig chips in their supplier chain(Keep in mind, iOS devices use flash in pairs; so a 64gb phone is really 2x32; etc). Given that at their size, they need to order their parts well in advance, it's easy to get trapped with an excess of parts.

They figured most people wouldn't notice or care. The 6s probably will go 32/64/128.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[gnupun]

Why support some many phone types? just make 1 64GB phone.

Sweet profits. Apple charges ridiculous markups ($200 or more) for $10 to $30 flash chips. Look at these unlocked iphone 6 prices on amazon:

iphone 6, 16GB: $999
iphone 6+, 16GB: $999
iphone 6, 64GB: $999
iphone 6+, 64GB: $1180
iphone 6+, 128GB: $2000

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[tepples]

Cloud-based everything makes it even more realistic for most users.

Yeah, if they want to routinely pay data overages.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[CastrTroy]

But it shouldn't cost $100 for the difference between the two anyway. It's a $650 phone. It should have 64 GB by default, or have 32 GB and have the option of an SD Card. You only say that 16 GB is fine because it's $100 for the next level up. That's almost the same price as a 128 GB micro SD Card (currently 109.99). There's no reason why they should be charging you $100 for 16 GB upgrade in the first place.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[tlhIngan]

That drive me up the wall. Why have an entry level phone? the manufacturing costs between 16 and 64 is tiny. Why support some many phone types? just make 1 64GB phone.

And I ask the in earnest. What data support the cost of different lines vs/ the cost of all of them being 64GB?

it's really all about segmentation and choice (or lack thereof).

16GB is not enough, but it's there to give you a nice price point to hook a customer in. Then you can explain to them would you want more space - 4 times as much for just $100 to go from 16 to 64.

And remember, back when it as 16/32/64, people complained about the $100 increments as being too profit-making going from 16 to 32.

At least 16/64/128 seems to offer more "value" for the $100.

And yes, consumer studies have shown that splitting the lines like this makes the middle choice far more likely - i.e., given the choice, people would chose the 64GB model - it's not a lot more money over the 16GB, but it offers a reasonably amount of space.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[sexconker]

Wrong. It's a common marketing tactic.

You have one model that you use to advertise the "starting" price. This model has a significant con to it that will concern most users.

You have the main model you intend to sell the most of. This model does not have the con of the cheaper model. This model is what you based your design and price around. The other models are represent minor changes and have prices determined entirely by psychology, not by production cost.

You have a high end model that you sell a few of at ridiculous markups. This model is just slightly better than the main model in a few aspects.

You see this done with Apple devices, cars, video cards, event tickets, etc. It's not a conspiracy unless you're an idiot who doesn't realize this goes on everywhere. It's marketing.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[MaryAnnEvans]

Everything you just said confirmed what was in my post, and didn't justify your original conspiracy theory. You know, the one where Apple chose not to sell the best option.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dixie_Flatline]

SD Cards are a whole other world of complexity; it's no wonder Android has started to clamp down on how they work somewhat. I worked on an XBox 360 game and I had to deal with the TCR requirements regarding removable storage. They're the worst. If someone removes the device during a save, you have to deal with that. If they remove it right before or right after a save, that's something else too. Basically, if anyone does anything with the removable storage at any time, you have to handle a bunch of exceptions, and then you also have to handle the case where the data is corrupted. It's awful.

Anyway, yes, you're probably right. I don't know what that kind of storage costs and what the economies of scale are, but I'm sure Apple could soak them up if they wanted to. But to a certain extent, that choice exists merely so people can feel like they HAVE a choice, and people like that. Even if zero people bought the 16GB version, it's there to make the other two options look better. But that's what the market will bear, I guess. Capitalism. What're you gonna do?

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[CastrTroy]

then you also have to handle the case where the data is corrupted

. No matter where you are storing the data, there's always a chance of the data being corrupted. And as far as users removing the storage card, computers have had that problem since as long as there have been personal computers. I'm sure most people could deal with it. People understand that they shouldn't just pull the card out randomly. If they lose their data by being stupid, then that's their own fault. They shouldn't cripple the entire user base because some users may do stupid things.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

But it shouldn't cost $100 for the difference between the two anyway. It's a $650 phone. It should have 64 GB by default, or have 32 GB and have the option of an SD Card. You only say that 16 GB is fine because it's $100 for the next level up. That's almost the same price as a 128 GB micro SD Card (currently 109.99). There's no reason why they should be charging you $100 for 16 GB upgrade in the first place.

It's Apple, so it won't have an SD card for the forseeable future.

They make the 16GB version to entice people to get the 64GB version. 16GB is fine if you mostly stream all your data, but if you have many games, utilities or productivity apps, then 16 is cutting it close. But if the entry level was 32GB, then nobody would get the 64GB.

The 128GB will sell regardless, since the people who buy those have a different set of priorities then a normal user. (Mostly for bragging rights, and the "I just NEED to have 40 hours of video available because I'm never sure about my mood")

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

Cloud-based everything makes it even more realistic for most users.

Yeah, if they want to routinely pay data overages.

Ever hear of Wi-Fi?

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

And none of those are Apple prices. They are third parties selling this spot in line so if you have to have it now, you can.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[sexconker]

Yup, you're a retard.
When's your iPhone 6 shipping? Did you opt for the + model because Apple says big screens are good now? Or are you still sticking with the old 'perfect size"?

Re: no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Redbehrend]

You can buy a 64gb micro for pretty cheap and they are making huge profit on it... Memory is cheap these days they even stated they make more profit the higher you go in memory...
Btw the reason apple doesnt support SD'so has nothing to do with issues it's all about the money. They have had working prototypes with sd slots before...

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Bill_the_Engineer]

They shouldn't cripple the entire user base because some users may do stupid things.

Tell that to Google and HTC. The HTC One and Nexus Galaxy, Nexus 4, and Nexus 5 do not have removable storage.

To be honest, I never removed my original SD card. Most of what I needed was online.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dixie_Flatline]

Look, you and I actually agree on this. Some of the steps that I had to go through were insane. We were working with a Kinect, so you had to trigger a save, dive for your XBox and yank out the network cable and the memory card at exactly the right time. At that point, you're TRYING to corrupt the data. But developers aren't just allowed to let bad things happen, even if it seems like it's the user's fault. Weak passwords and bad answers to security questions are ALSO technically the user's fault, but we can see how far it gets a company to blame users for those sorts of things.

But pathologically worst case behaviour aside, even normal behaviour can be a pain to handle. What if your app had some data saved on the card, but you removed it in the interim and now it needs it? Okay, you prompt for the data, but the user doesn't have it--they left it at home. Now what? Do you create new data? Refuse to progress?

Okay, you create new data. Now the user gets the card and puts it in, and you've got DUPLICATE data. Great. Merge? Throw away?

One storage device is a lot easier for the mobile paradigm, I feel. It's not the same as a desktop system--manipulating data is a lot easier on a desktop. Mobile systems should be lightweight and streamlined. But that's just my opinion.

Re: no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dixie_Flatline]

Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from your set up. They may have decided not to implement it because it's a pain in the ass (as I've talked about in my other comments). It probably wasn't worth their time and money in a bunch of different ways, not least of which is that it may not give the user experience that they wanted out of it.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[tepples]

...Data overages on the cellular or satellite uplink of the Wi-Fi router.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Anonymous Coward]

if im at home on my wifi then i dont need to stream anything in the first place.
or maybe you have free wifi everywhere you go. thats great, but not available for most people.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dog-Cow]

I have a work-provided 16GB 5s, which I use all the time. I am currently sitting at 7GB used, 5.8GB free.

I don't feel at all constrained.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[Dog-Cow]

An unlocked 6 from Apple cost $649. If you want to throw away $250 buying on Amazon, feel free.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[knarf]

No, they're not that complex, nor is the perceived complexity the reason for Google to 'clamp down' on external storage. SD cards in Android phones - and most other phones - may be removable, but in practice they just stay put and are used to extend - or replace - the internal storage in the device.

Google 'clamps down' on external storage because they want you to use 'cloud storage' instead. Apple overcharges for flash storage because they can. Simple as that, really, no need to start looking for 'technical excuses'.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[CastrTroy]

Ideally all this would be handled by the XBox itself. Developers shouldn't have to deal with what happens when the storage device is disconnected when trying to save a game. The XBox OS (whatever it is) should have a function to write out a saved game. It should be transactional so that even if it breaks part way through writing, you can still just use the previous version. All saved games should be "signed" so that they can detect if the file was corrupted or tampered with. This would prevent bugs in reading saved game files that were tampered with from allowing exploits in the system (this happened on Wii, allowing modified save games to execute code). Also, all saved games (every transaction) should be backed up to the cloud so that the user can recover their saved games if the storage media becomes corrupted or malfunctions. Saved game data is so small that all this should really be easily possible.

Re:no wonder apple dropped 16GB machines

[MaryAnnEvans]

You have a debating age of 7.

Re:Extensions are interesting

[AuMatar]

Did you know you're lieing? I have an Android phone, with Skype on it. Battery uneffected, lasts 2 days of moderate use or 1 day of heavy use including GPS. Skype does not take command of the camera like that, if it did then no other app would be able to claim it and you'd quickly see a problem.

IOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Great. I'll upgrade my Cisco router immediately.

Re:IOS

[sexconker]

Great. I'll upgrade my Cisco router immediately.

And I'll upgrade my Wii homebrew!

Re:IOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Great. I'll upgrade my Cisco router immediately.

And I'll upgrade my Wii homebrew!

*woosh*

Re:IOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Double-woosh on you.

Still waiting

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'm waiting for the comprehensive review of the Ars Technica review.

hehe

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple fags go!

Re:Extensions are interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

And my ipad 3 lasts about 2 weeks with moderate daily use. (Or it did until I sold it. I just don't like large tablets)

I have a nexus 7 2013 and the skype bug is a known issue. If you uninstall skype you will get 3 days of moderate use and 2 days of heavy use. I'm not fucking kidding. Skype for android is really fucking terrible.

Something made by Humans ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... Is as fallible as Them. How the fuck is this news?

No new iPod Touch, no update

[HalAtWork]

I don't want an expensive phone that I don't even need because I don't want a cellphone.

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[Anonymous Coward]

If I read the Ars review correctly, Apple are only supporting the most recent iPod Touch model (which is what, 2 years old?). That's pretty shitty, especially considering its their own crap marketing strategy that keeps the iPod Touch hardware behind the iPhone.

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[tepples]

I don't want a cellphone

Without a mobile phone, how would you go about reaching roadside assistance or emergency services? It's hard to find a payphone anymore.

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[ShaunC]

Without a mobile phone, how would you go about reaching roadside assistance or emergency services?

Any shitty old mobile with no service plan will work to call 911, as long as the battery's charged. A few people you know are probably tossing their old phones in the garbage every year, or you can get an old LG flip phone and a car charger for $20 on eBay.

As for roadside assistance, just take off your pants and stand in traffic! Someone will stop sooner or later.

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post - so full of useful information! You are awesome and must have so many grateful friends!

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[ShaunC]

Take off your pants and stand in traffic and you, too, can meet new grateful friends!

Re:No new iPod Touch, no update

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPod Touch 5th was the only itouch device to get iOS 7, too.

Internally, it's basically an iPhone 4S with a Lightning connector and without the phone-specific parts.

Not answered in review

[fyngyrz]

Did they enable nested folders yet? The current single level folders are limiting and create unnecessary clutter.

For instance, it'd be nice to have one games folder, inside which might be a folder for board games, one for shooters, one for tower defense, etc.

One that would be of interest to me would be arranged around photography. One main folder, then one for editors, one for astrophoto conditions and apps, one for auroral conditions and apps, one for IR work, one for special effects, etc., one for a DB of my lenses and cameras, one with my portfolio, one with links to photography websites, etc.

Folders within folders is a very natural way to arrange things in a hierarchy; I have never understood Apple's resistance to giving its customers tools they can use to make using IOS easier. In the case of nested folders, you don't *have* to use the feature if you don't want to, anyway... but if you need it, you probably *really* need it.

So here's hoping.

Re:Not answered in review

[CastrTroy]

I guess if you have the 64 GB or 128 GB version of the device this may be a problem, but most people won't install so much stuff that they need folders inside folders for launching their apps. Every level of folders you add requires another tap to bring up the folder. And there's more taps if you end up going to the wrong folder. I really like the Android/Windows model of just listing everything in alphabetical order and giving you a way to add a quick launch of the stuff you really need to access all the time.

Re: Not answered in review

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't figure out how to access my downloads on a Nexus 7 until I installed Ghost Commander. It made everything easier to find and organize.

I had a similar problem with my iPhone until I installed a file manager app. Coincidentally, this allows me to transfer music/video to the iPhone and play it with VLC, thus bypassing iTunes (which crashed and wiped the phone on a system update).

Smartphone interfaces don't seem to be the greatest (despite what hype marketers give them). Is this the interface Microsoft put on Windows 8? Ugh.

Re:Not answered in review

[DougOtto]

Nested folders have been around since version 7 but it takes a little practice to actually make one.

Re:Not answered in review

[MaryAnnEvans]

Did they enable nested folders yet?

Thankfully not. It's bad enough if you lose track of an app in single level folder.

For instance, it'd be nice to have one games folder, inside which might be a folder for board games, one for shooters, one for tower defense, etc.

It'd only be nice if you have a filing fetish. It's not useful. Any minor pleasure it might bring filing fetishists would be vastly outweighed by those ordinary phone users who lose applications.

Re:Not answered in review

[TrancePhreak]

More than nested folders, I find the number of visible icons in a folder very frustrating.

Re:Not answered in review

[fyngyrz]

Would you care to explain how, or point the way to a howto?

Thanks.

Re:Not answered in review

[fyngyrz]

You *do* know IOS has a search, right? Makes it kind of difficult to fail to find an app you're actually looking for.

As for the rest, different strokes, etc. I have no objection if you choose not to use such a feature (for that matter, perhaps the OS could contain a switch to turn it off for those who are unable to manage more than a single level of folders.

As for not being useful, you're not qualified to say what's useful to me.

Re:Not answered in review

[DougOtto]

http://bit.ly/1r1Jf4F

Re:Not answered in review

[geekoid]

Yo dawg! I here you like folders.

Re:Not answered in review

[geekoid]

A) Some of us like that level of organization
B) No one is talking about forcing you to use it
C) If you are loosing application on a iDevice, then you must be pretty dim.

Re:Not answered in review

[BancBoy]

C) If you are loosing application on a iDevice, then you must be pretty dim.

Mr. Pot, there's a Mr. Kettle on line three for you.

Re: Not answered in review

[Anonymous Coward]

Just curious how you couldn't find the downloads? Almost all will show in the "Downloads" deal in the App Drawer (or whatever they call it)

Re: Not answered in review

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if BlackBerry 10 just got nested folder support, it can only mean iOS will add in next 3 years.

Re:Not answered in review

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Pot, there's a Mr. Kettle on line three for you.

Touche, douche...

Re:Not answered in review

[Anonymous Coward]

im genuinely curious, not being an apple user.
can it actually be difficult to find installed apps? in android you hit the menu button and all your installed apps are there to use in alphabetical order. i dont understand how or why its even possible to lose track of them.

Re:Not answered in review

[flargleblarg]

It'd only be nice if you have a filing fetish. It's not useful. Any minor pleasure it might bring filing fetishists would be vastly outweighed by those ordinary phone users who lose applications.

That's a rather naive thing of you to say. Some of us have a hundred apps installed, and it's very useful to have them organized and be able to select them quickly with just a couple or three taps, rather than scrolling through dozens of pages of grids.

Re:Not answered in review

[fyngyrz]

Under IOS, apps aren't kept in an ordered system collection the way they are in Android. If they're on the device at all, they're somewhere on a page or within a folder, either where you put them, or where the system put them (always on a page) if you have not interfered. And finding them, if you don't know where they are, is a matter of typing the name into the search.

But -- just like Android -- you can have a lot of pages, a lot of folders, and you may or may not remember where a particular app or shortcut is located in your own personal folder/page setup. But then there is IOS search, which can find anything.

Under either OS, if you can't remember where they are, and you can't remember the name, it's down to looking around until you find them.

One of the arguments for folder organization is that if you even know the type of app it is -- for instance, if it is a photography app -- then if you're consistent at install time, you can look just in there, and it will be there, leaving you a lot fewer apps to check through until you find it.

But IOS has low limits on how many apps can be in a folder, and it doesn't allow subfolders, which seriously impacts how well you can really use them for that kind of organization. In my case, IOS's folder paradigm is insufficient to my needs. Android isn't significantly better, either.

Re:Not answered in review

[fyngyrz]

Ah. You're talking about an unsupported, undocumented trick that appears to be an exploit of a bug. Have you thought about the potential consequences when/if Apple writes this functionality out of the system?

So, no, this won't do.

Re:Not answered in review

[fastasleep]

1) swipe down to open spotlight 2) type the first couple letters of the app name that's the easiest way to select apps quickly if they're not on your home screen.

Re:Not answered in review

[flargleblarg]

That's wayyyyyy too much effort for how I launch things: Tap, tap, done if it's on the first screen. Otherwise if it's on the second screen then it's swipe, tap, tap, done. I'd rather just Tap, tap, tap, done, with never any swipe.

Wifi Calling on T-Mobile and ATT

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an iOS feature I've been waiting for!

Just one question...

[Skater]

I have an iPhone 6 on order, and I plan to use it either way, but I couldn't find the answer to this in the article: Can I use a playlist for an alarm, or can alarm apps work correctly in the background? Since the built-in alarm app only plays one song, you had to use another app if you wanted to wake up to a random song off a playlist. iOS 7 and older versions required that app to be in the foreground for it to play the song. Normally not a big deal, but if you answered a text message in the middle of the night or couldn't sleep and did a little websurfing and forgot to switch back to the alarm app, your alarm wouldn't go off. This isn't an issue with Android, and I'm hoping Apple has fixed this serious limitation - either by allowing the alarm app to use a playlist, or by allowing 3rd party apps to play a song without being in the foreground. It's my biggest pet peeve about iOS, especially after having an Android phone without this limit for the last two years. (If you read reviews in the App Store for alarm apps, most or all of them have people complaining about the app having to be in the foreground - they don't realize it's a limit of iOS rather than a limit of the app. So, I know it's not just me that's annoyed by this.)

Re:Just one question...

[sexconker]

I have an iPhone 6 on order, and I plan to use it either way, but I couldn't find the answer to this in the article: Can I use a playlist for an alarm, or can alarm apps work correctly in the background? Since the built-in alarm app only plays one song, you had to use another app if you wanted to wake up to a random song off a playlist. iOS 7 and older versions required that app to be in the foreground for it to play the song. Normally not a big deal, but if you answered a text message in the middle of the night or couldn't sleep and did a little websurfing and forgot to switch back to the alarm app, your alarm wouldn't go off. This isn't an issue with Android, and I'm hoping Apple has fixed this serious limitation - either by allowing the alarm app to use a playlist, or by allowing 3rd party apps to play a song without being in the foreground. It's my biggest pet peeve about iOS, especially after having an Android phone without this limit for the last two years. (If you read reviews in the App Store for alarm apps, most or all of them have people complaining about the app having to be in the foreground - they don't realize it's a limit of iOS rather than a limit of the app. So, I know it's not just me that's annoyed by this.)

The alarm only works if it's the foreground app? Holy fucking shit LOL!

Re:Just one question...

[AuMatar]

iOS terms of service prevent you from writing a service or daemon except under very specific circumstances. If you do, they'll reject your app from the store. So you have to do a lot of things that should run in the background only when you're in the foreground. Yes, its idiotic- in order to try and avoid a few badly written apps from draining battery power unnecessarily running in the background they've instead prevented entire categories of useful behavior.

Re:Just one question...

[suutar]

That seems odd. Waze can use the speaker even when it's not the foreground app and the screen has been turned off; it seems like it should be possible for the alarm app to do that too. Unless Waze got special privileges that the alarm app was unable to get for some reason (like, Apple only gives that to GPS apps).

Re:Just one question...

[TrancePhreak]

Apple does only give that to GPS/VOIP apps. An app can turn on gps/voip services to stay available, but if Apple decides they don't like what you're doing they will remove/disable your app.

Re:Just one question...

[Skater]

Only 3rd party alarm apps - the built-in app from Apple works fine whether it's in the foreground or not.

Re:Just one question...

[suutar]

Ah, that's a pity. Seems like alarms would be a natural category to add to that list; perhaps apple will do so at some point.

Re:Just one question...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an iPhone 6 on order, and I plan to use it either way, but I couldn't find the answer to this in the article: Can I use a playlist for an alarm, or can alarm apps work correctly in the background? Since the built-in alarm app only plays one song, you had to use another app if you wanted to wake up to a random song off a playlist. iOS 7 and older versions required that app to be in the foreground for it to play the song. Normally not a big deal, but if you answered a text message in the middle of the night or couldn't sleep and did a little websurfing and forgot to switch back to the alarm app, your alarm wouldn't go off. This isn't an issue with Android, and I'm hoping Apple has fixed this serious limitation - either by allowing the alarm app to use a playlist, or by allowing 3rd party apps to play a song without being in the foreground. It's my biggest pet peeve about iOS, especially after having an Android phone without this limit for the last two years. (If you read reviews in the App Store for alarm apps, most or all of them have people complaining about the app having to be in the foreground - they don't realize it's a limit of iOS rather than a limit of the app. So, I know it's not just me that's annoyed by this.)

The alarm only works if it's the foreground app? Holy fucking shit LOL!

No, the alarm works perfectly. I use the built in alarms and have dozen (not all at once, but semi-re-occuring alarms that I turn on as needed) and as long as the alarms are turned on, they go off when they are supposed to (Whether the alarm app is in the task list or not) Perhaps it is because he wants to play a song that is his problem...

Re:Just one question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I haven't explored alarm apps, but there is no reason why this couldn't be coded to work - Nike+ can start a playlist which runs in the background, and I can switch back and forth with my other running app, music doesn't stop playing and the audio prompts and status from the apps work fine while not interrupting the music. Audible can play audio books in the background and I can switch to Safari or e-mail and the book is not interrupted. So this isn't an Apple issue, it is an app developer one.

Re:Just one question...

[Freultwah]

How come the parent post is modded interesting?

Re:Just one question...

[Freultwah]

No issues since iOS 6 (which is when I started using the iPhone). Granted, I don't use the builtin app, having instead opted for the Sleep Cycle app that uses the accelerometer while you sleep and allegedly takes your sleep cycles into account when determining the right window for waking you up. (Yea, I bought into it, but it's been working well for me.) It plays any song or playlist I throw at it, background or foreground. So in short, no such limitation has come up.

Re:Just one question...

[radarskiy]

"Perhaps it is because he wants to play a song that is his problem..."
It's not that OP wants to play a song, which also works fine, it's that OP wants to play a playlist.

Re:Just one question...

[DocSavage64109]

I ran into that problem a couple of years ago. I ended up automating iTunes on my computer to play my wakeup music - as an added benefit, it also turns itself off when I should be leaving the house.

I will be getting a call from my boss then

[bobjr94]

like after every other time he updates his iphone his emails all stop working. Have to delete and readd them and he has about 4 or 5 accounts.

jailbroken already?

[real_b0fh]

yay or nay?

Re:Extensions are interesting

[robmv]

The skype bug was not a skype bug, but one on some qualcomm camera driver that locked up using a lot of CPU, It had nothing to do with Android multitasking APIs

Bluetooth SPP

[Rob Riggs]

Wake me up when Apple supports Bluetooth SPP on iOS.

Just use screens

[Anonymous Coward]

One alternative is just to have screens - one full screen just for games and then have your sub folders there. Then the next screen is for your productivity. etc.

(Personally, I wouldn't use nested folders, just would make it easier to lose something, but I'm sure some people would want it).

Re:Just use screens

[Anonymous Freak]

That's exactly what I do. Main screen is for "use it every day" with no folders at all, second screen is for "use very often, divided by theme" such as "financial", "media" (which means media consumption for me, so Netflix, Hulu, etc,) "Photo", "science", "sports". Third screen is games, subdivided by category. Fourth screen is "I almost never use these, but space is cheap, so I'll just stuff them here" - mostly store apps that I only have so that Passbook works right with them, apps that Siri integrates with so that I can tap results and have them launch properly (Yelp, etc,) and other things that when I really want to use them, I end up launching them another way. (Google Doc, Sheet, Slide; which I launch via Drive almost exclusively.)

UI still looks like shit

[UnknownSoldier]

It's not just me. One of my best friends really hates that the lines no longer show in "Notes" in iOS 7 on her iPad.

http://iosguides.net/wp-conten...

I can grudgly accept that Apple wants to move away from skeuomorphism, but when Functionality suffers because of some idiotic dogma about Form someone needs a clue stick:

    Give people UI _options_.

Does anyone have the new nVidia Shield Tablet? How is for reading and developing games for?

--
"Apple: Pretending they know what is best for you since 1984. The problem is their lost their class in style. Now they are not even tacky."

Not answered in review

[kick6]

One that would be of interest to me would be arranged around photography. One main folder, then one for editors, one for astrophoto conditions and apps, one for auroral conditions and apps, one for IR work, one for special effects, etc., one for a DB of my lenses and cameras, one with my portfolio, one with links to photography websites, etc.

You do realize that iOS is for your phone, right? Not your macbook pro?

Apple's control of the media

[Anonymous Coward]

Not even reading the article.

Why?

If it were a negative review it would be the last device that Ars Technica ever gets for review from Apple. All reviewers know the game. Write a good review and the toys keep coming. Dare to be honest and you will no longer get the devices early.

And have to register as a sex offender

[tepples]

I don't want a cellphone.

Without a mobile phone, how would you go about reaching roadside assistance or emergency services?

Any shitty old mobile with no service plan will work to call 911

Normally I'd recommend a dumb phone, but HalAtWork refuses even this.

As for roadside assistance, just take off your pants and stand in traffic! Someone will stop sooner or later.

Like a police officer ready to stay you for indecent exposure. I would not find permanent sex offender status worth not carrying a phone.

I think I jail broke it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha.

Corrupts Video files

[fxsoap]

Beware Ipod Touch/Phone 5th Gen users if you add your own .mp4 files (movies/videos/pron/whatever) and don't purchase shows to watch on your devices. The IOS 8 update has corrupted the video files for myself and 3 other friends of mine. No music affect at the moment. Also video files are now limited in their description to 18 characters when viewing them in their list form that shows up when you go to videos. So now for me, videos show up for example as : The.Daily.Show.201... and can not be look at further before opening them.

Yuck!

[Anonymous Coward]

This update is worse than the last one and I hated iOS 7. I wish I could remove all the extra apps. My phone is already pretty full.

I hate ios8

[Anonymous Coward]

My phone is functioning horribly since I downloaded ios8. All apps are crashing and closing or not opening at all, facebook is absurdly slow, and the whole performance has slowed. I hate it. Can you u install ios8?

I hate ios8

[CristenFreeman]

My phone is functioning horribly since I downloaded ios8. All apps are crashing and closing or not opening at all, facebook is absurdly slow, and the whole performance has slowed. I hate it. Can you I uninstall ios8?

Ios 8 on ipad2

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrible do not update your devices to ios8 too buggy and the apps don't work correctly the iPad slow and jumpy

I hate iOS 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst update I've ever had!!! So many of my apps don't function properly now. This was NOT a iOS meant for 4 or 4s users which I have the white 4s and my phone in most category's is SO slow I despise using it now. And I also can't use my favorite music app now because this s**t force closes it! Never ever have I had even On's force close since I've had this phone and I've had it over a year now! Steve Jobs would roll over in his f**king grave to see this abomination of an iOS it's basically in my opinion making the lesser iPhones obsolete so you are force f**ked into buying the new iPhone trash! I regret ever installing this trash and I bet it'll be some time until they make YET ANOTHER update that makes this even f**king tolerable to use! I'm angry. I wish I could go back in the past to my self and say ; don't buy that iphone POS buy they Samsung! ... But I was deceived to think Apple was a show runner in leading OS HAH!!! Yeah when purple dotted , green monkeys fly.