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FCC Chairman: Americans Shouldn't Subsidize Internet Service Under 10Mbps

Posted by samzenpus on from the reasonable-speed dept.

An anonymous reader writes On Wednesday at a hearing in front of the US House Committee on Small Business, FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler stated that for ISPs to be eligible for government broadband subsidies, they would have to deliver speeds of at least 10 Mbps. Said Wheeler: "What we are saying is we can't make the mistake of spending the people's money, which is what Universal Service is, to continue to subsidize something that's subpar." He further indicated that he would remedy the situation by the end of 2014. The broadband subsidies are collected through bill surcharges paid for by phone customers.

20 of 353 comments (clear)

  1. I never thought I'd say this... by iamwhoiamtoday · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But for once, I like something said by the FCC. Granted, jury is still out if this will go through or not, but I'm loving this push.

    Wasn't one way that Broadband penetration was improved previously just by lowering what the definition of broadband was?

    1. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Americans shouldn't subsidize internet service, period. What needs to be done is break the monopolies and allow competition.

    2. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As much as my libertarian side wants to agree with you, I can't help but notice the positive effects of rural electrification and phone service. Damn you, history and pragmatism.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by Xicor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      because we dont care about them. also... because we are essentially just giving internet companies subsidies. this doesnt actually mean that the end user is recieving ANY of this discount.

    4. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by Mitsoid · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, but at the same time, paying for an internet line to be run to your house can actually cost more than your house in rural areas... Note: The price of the work, and for the final service, is often determined by the monopoly carrier for your area.

      My grandfather was quoted $4000 to run a coax cable 500 feet to the street (which was up and running) to his home. His only other option was 36k dial up (too far north, and too many trees, for satellite). He's retired now (has been for decades), and while he lives comfortably in his home on his retirement, he can't afford an extra "luxury" expense like this.

      Recently, my co-worker was quoted $60,000 to get internet brought to his rural community... per home... and required 2 dozen people within a 3-mile radius to sign a 3-year contract and agree to also pay that 'set up fee'. Their other option? Satellite (which has a 25GB download limit). The area is sanctioned monopoly.

      Now, if you are ALSO living in a rural area where the average ~5 yr experience IT/programming/database job is $45-55,000, spending $60,000 for internet is a bit ridiculous... and not offset by your 'city wages in a rural area'

    5. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe you should consider living somewhere else than if you want a career in IT. Through all of history the characteristics and features of a geographic location have dictated the type of economic activity that goes on there.

      Ever wonder why big cities tended to be near rivers or coasts ( at least prior the development of the automobile? ) there is a reason!

      Wonder why all those orange groves get planted in Florida and not Maine?

      I do IT consulting work mostly from home, but hop a plane about one a month currently. I am looking to live to more rural area myself because I am hiker and it would be nice to near on of the big State or National parks, but I have made it perfectly clear to my real estate agent that I can't look at properties unless they have good high speed internet service available at the location (by good I mean 800Kbps up down or better low latency; which is enough to remote into virtual servers where you do your real work from at the corporate offices).

      You just don't always get to have it both ways! If you want to work in Information technology you probably have to stick close to where certain infrastructure is, and there are good economic reasons for where that is and isn't. You probably should consider another career path or maybe moving.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have multi-Mbits broadband in my cottage house in Finland, which is on an island, and the closed town is 40 min. drive. Also multi-Mbits broadband in Swiss mountains. I used to envy US broadband services 10-15 years ago when it was better than here, now it's the opposite. I pity you.

    7. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by volmtech · · Score: 4, Informative

      Twenty years ago I had a job laying TV cable. I was using a shovel and could do 200 ft in an hour. I got $20. Any farther than that and they got a guy with a power trencher. A 1000 ft roll of RG11 is $150. Should cost about $300 to do that job. One time I had an easy 300 ft install. The utility company had used an industrial trencher to install the electrical service underground to a new house. I just dropped my cable in the five ft deep trench. An easy $30.

    8. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by mi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      people that otherwise couldn't afford it

      Because for a person born and raised in America to be unable to afford Internet service (as well as a phone, vehicle, decent shelter, and food) is a shame. Millions of immigrants here — legal and even illegal ones — manage to not only do well for themselves, they are also able to support extended families back home. That's despite the culture shock, not knowing the predominant language very well, and — in many cases — dubious legal status.

      But if you feel like continuing the failed "War on Poverty" for another fifty years — go ahead. Just don't force me at gunpoint (via the IRS, that is) to join you.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    9. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How's that internet-free job search going for you? You know - the one where you can at best get online when you can get to a library between working two jobs to pay your bills and trying to get enough sleep to continue to function effectively. Dialup meanwhile is generally going to be not much cheaper after you factor in the cost of getting an otherwise useless phone line: we live in the age where a cell-phone is practically required for normal social interactions.

      And seriously - if we're giving handouts to the poor, the kind that give them a better chance to stop being poor are first on my list. Poor people are a drain on the economy, and our economic system is currently tilted strongly against those trying to climb out of poverty. Giving them equal communication capabilities is probably one of the cheapest and most effective ways we can help reduce poverty without directly confronting the wealthy powers that have tilted the board in their own favor.

      Now sure, you could argue that broadband is hardly required in order to do such a thing, but if we're subsidizing *something*, this is an excellent opportunity to apply some non-regulatory leverage to the ISPs who have thus far lobbied their way to a pretty posh deal on that front. A government subsidy can represent a massive economic opportunity, and unless deliberately hamstrung(such as Medicare being prohibitted from negotiating lower drug prices like every other insurance provider does) puts the government in a position to be able to economically incentivize socially responsible corporate behavior such as providing quality, socially valuable goods and services with less economic waste.

    10. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe you should consider living somewhere else than if you want a career in IT.

      A fair point, but I think you should consider something as well: food security.

      If a rural place is so backward and so lonely that no one wants to be a farmer, what do you think that will do to food production? Not to mention the simple distastefulness of having barefoot poverty within the US. Sometimes market efficiency has to take a back seat to other priorities.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re: I never thought I'd say this... by maxusso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe you should consider living somewhere else than if you want a career in IT. Through all of history the characteristics and features of a geographic location have dictated the type of economic activity that goes on there.

      Ever wonder why big cities tended to be near rivers or coasts ( at least prior the development of the automobile? ) there is a reason!

      Wonder why all those orange groves get planted in Florida and not Maine?

      I don't think the point is that the orange groves are in Florida. The point is that you can eat Florida oranges pretty much anywhere in the country if you want them, and there's no good reason not to have broadband everywhere as well. As you said, we didn't stay by the water, we made cars and moved on. I guarantee that you are literally surrounded by things that, at some point in history, would have been unavailable to you because of geography. Thankfully, technology has been steadily overcoming geographic location pretty much since there were such things as technology and geographic location. Now we need to overcome are the gatekeepers and monopolists holding back a service that is vital to our society.

  2. No more subsidies by danaris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At this point, the various big ISPs have taken so much taxpayer money, and provided so little in return, that I'd say we should stop providing them with any subsidies, and still require the same level of buildout. They can take the balance out of their execs' bonuses from next quarter—which should be enough to cover a fair amount of infrastructure.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:No more subsidies by danaris · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm still learning this law stuff, but aren't they are private corporations providing what is essentially a non-essential luxury product? Unless someone proves they are doing something illegal, the government doesn't have any grounds to require any buildout at all. Subsidies are actually good for the consumer in the sense that they are how the government can influence things like buildout and quality service. That is, assuming the ISPs don't just take the money and run. Again.

      Well, first off, they fall under the FCC's jurisdiction as telecommunications companies of one stripe or another. So there's a certain amount of power to regulate them there.

      Second of all, as you so astutely note, giving them federal funds with strings attached means they are sort of required to abide by the terms of those strings, and from what I understand (though I haven't researched this in-depth), they have, in fact, taken government money to do certain things that they have signally failed to do, which means there ought to at least be some sort of penalty until they do. Money might work—say, 10% of their gross income the first year they fail to comply, increasing to 20% the second year, 30% the third, until they either do their damn jobs or simply bleed to death.

      Thirdly, there is a strong argument to be made (whether you agree with it or not; I happen to) that internet service is, at this point, no longer a "non-essential luxury product," but a basic service along the lines of telephone and power. As such, it should be regulated much more strictly than it has been to date. Ideally, the company that owns the physical hardware (the lines going to your house, for instance) should either be government-owned, or should at least be forbidden from actually providing any more than the hardware—they should have to lease the lines at one price to all comers in the ISP market, and have no "value-add services" of their own. That would remove the incentive for them to do anything with their money but invest it in better infrastructure.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  3. 10Mbps is still slow by itzly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not put the bar at something a little more reasonable, like 25 Mbps..

    1. Re:10Mbps is still slow by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Basically everything is doable at 10Mbps. It's an acceptable minimum standard. We'd all like to see more, but at least they're setting the bar someplace livable.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. Re:well, duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That really is not a fair comparison. How many states has the "up to par" connection? Compare the states to europian countries, not usa as a whole to a europian country. Or compare usa to whole europe or EU atleast. So you can't say USA is much bigger than a single europian country, so you have a lot more work to do.

  5. Re:well, duh? by Xicor · · Score: 4, Informative

    The EU is much less lenient on monopolies.

  6. We have by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 4, Informative

    All of Europe has internet and it's faster and cheaper even in the most remote areas. Actually, you should try building out the infrastructure of *our* size and then get back to us.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  7. Overselling Bandwidth by sycodon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'd be happy if those fuckers just stopped overselling their bandwidth. I pay for the bandwidth but many times I get squat because everyone else is on the neighborhood cable loop. If the sell it, they need to be able to support it 24/7. This airline approach is bullshit.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.