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US Revamping Its Nuclear Arsenal

FreedomFirstThenPeac writes: As a former Cold Warrior (both launch officer side and staff analytical mathematician side), I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car. According to the NY Times, a new assembly plant in Kansas is "part of a nationwide wave of atomic revitalization that includes plans for a new generation of weapon carriers. This expansion comes under a president who campaigned for 'a nuclear-free world' and made disarmament a main goal of American defense policy." Mind you, Mutual Assured Destruction is a dangerous path, and one we managed to negotiate only because we were lucky (and we were) and because we were careful (and we were).

As a strategy, it only works with rational people (e.g., world powers with lots to lose) who might have irrational expectations that they will win in the long run. (The rapid fall of imperialist Russia was helpful — I have seen blackboard talks on this as a mathematical result in game theory. This speed minimized the time we spent in the high-risk regions while transiting from MAD to where we were in the 1990s). The Times article says, "The original idea was that modest rebuilding of the nation’s crumbling nuclear complex would speed arms refurbishment, raising confidence in the arsenal’s reliability and paving the way for new treaties that would significantly cut the number of warheads. Instead, because of political deals and geopolitical crises, the Obama administration is engaging in extensive atomic rebuilding while getting only modest arms reductions in return."

342 comments

  1. Booger by DorkFest · · Score: 1

    "I say we blow the fuckers up." -- Booger, Revenge of the Nerds.

  2. Cold Fjord by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bring it!!!

  3. And Russia by aliquis · · Score: 2

    Is supposed to renew their whole arsenal to 2020 rather than 70% of it I think I read earlier today or possibly yesterday.

    Guess it may be weak enough to not deserve to be posted.
    Better get a source so you don't quote me on it:
    http://rt.com/politics/189604-...

    1. Re:And Russia by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      It's a MAD world.

  4. I Voted For Kodos. by Robert+Bowles · · Score: 1

    Really, I did a write-in.

    --
    /* MAGIC THEATRE
    ENTRANCE NOT FOR EVERYBODY
    MADMEN ONLY */
    1. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's either that or post "And this, from the religion of peace," innit?

    2. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

      I voted for Kang.

      Really, he was on the ballot.

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    3. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by schnell · · Score: 1

      This comment actually makes more sense than all of the sentences in the article summary combined.

      I know it's cool to bash to the quality of Slashdot "editors," but has anyone else noticed that the last week has been particularly awful? Above and beyond even the typical political and iOS/Android flamebaiting, I mean, with just more awful story approvals and summary editing? Did all the grownups at Slashdot go away on vacation, or did Dice halve the editors' IQ scores so somehow cut costs? (Remember, there must be a step 2 to making Slashdot profitable, so why not that?)

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    4. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is perceived to be popular with voting groups that are very attractive
      Once that you put the platform up for sale, the new owner can put whatever message they want out there

    5. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is perceived to be popular with voting groups that are very attractive

      I didn't know 'angry neckbeards who are too serious about which phone they use and can't shut up about systemd' was such a powerful demographic.

      Clearly, the kingmakers.

    6. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you intentionally ignore the minions of millenials and ipad users the bask in the warm glow of said neckbeards

    7. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by BringsApples · · Score: 2

      They're just doing what they think needs to be done. Because, really speaking, have you noticed how few we are on slashdot these days? The only articles that gain more than 50 comments are the ones that are troll/flamebait articles. I assume that most of us are Americans, and probably a lot of other folks from abroad just check the site to get a laugh at us, as we all argue like champs while the reality of our situation grows more and more dim. Slashdot hasn't ever solved any problems in a real sense.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    8. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Slashdot hasn't ever solved any problems in a real sense.

      I'm curious - whyever do you think slashdot is supposed to solve problems? In a real sense or otherwise.

      Personally, I come here to get a feel for how people think about various topics that may be of interest to me. I've never expected to solve anything by being here, anymore than I expect voting to solve anything...

      But if we're supposed to be here to "solve problems in a real sense", then I'm wasting my time. And so is everyone else....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    9. Re:I Voted For Kodos. by BringsApples · · Score: 1
      Maybe I worded that badly. I should have written:

      The arguing that is laughable, hasn't ever solved anything in a real sense.

      And yet people come here and argue as though it's going to change the thing that they're arguing about.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
  5. What is there to renew? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there something wrong with the actual warhead?

    Or are they just trying to replace all that nice old reliable tech with new Xlinix FPGAs and newfangled PowerPC processors (as seen on http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3649)?

    If that's the case, why on earth would you want to do that? I would assume that you'd want something as important as a nuclear weapon to be as simple as possible, if only to reduce the number of things that can go direly wrong. I really can't see the military scrambling about trying to get their missiles to pull a DHCP address so they can update the firmware on the flight computers over TCP/IP.

    1. Re:What is there to renew? by brainboyz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fissle material, explosives, lubes, seals, etc all need to be refreshed from time to time or the reliability of the weapon drops over time.

    2. Re:What is there to renew? by StevenMaurer · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're wearing out. Yes. Nuclear warheads have a lifespan, even if they sit around unused. There is a lot of radioactive decay to them.

      Not only are the warheads not working, we also have launch facilities that don't secure. The airforce has a silo where they have to prop open a blast door with a crowbar. The weapons maintenance facilities are even in worse shape. The NYT article talks about a Tennessee facility so decrepit, its roof is caving in and they have people wear hard hats to stay relatively safe. Not exactly the place I want spent nuclear materials to be reprocessed in.

      Ironically, it is precisely because we're not on hair-trigger alert for nuclear war, that we've let things get so bad. We just kind of forgot about it. But just because we're no longer worried doesn't mean the stuff is safe. We need to spend money to keep it that way.

    3. Re:What is there to renew? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      The primary nuclear deterrence of United States is the ballistic missile submarine fleet anyways.

      Those things are definitely not sitting around decaying from neglect.

    4. Re:What is there to renew? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really? do they have a time machine that somehow keeps the radioactive material from decaying? fascinating, tell me more!

    5. Re: What is there to renew? by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      Reading comprehension. Submarine fleet and their armaments aren't being neglected.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    6. Re: What is there to renew? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're right - submarine armaments are indeed being renewed now, which is what this discussion is about. And are you wishing for better reading comprehension or are you just being a turd?

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    7. Re:What is there to renew? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having actually served on a submarine, I can assure you that the nuclear arsenal of the submarine force is maintained with quite a bit of care and planning. ICBMs sitting in silos shoreside are a different matter.

      (philip.paradis posting AC because I don't log in on this computer)

  6. MAD by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mutually Assured Destruction, making sure the psychopaths that own the corporations who make the weapons, the corrupt politicians who buy the weapons and fire the weapons, die as well. That's all they care about, as for the rest of us, we are all cannon fodder and millennia of psychopathic war has shown the will use and kill us without limit or mercy, only our refusal to play their game, puts limits on it. A multi-lingual internet where people communicate from all over the world would likely make that refusal global.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    1. Re:MAD by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      MAD prevented WWIII. I don't care whether the people who build them or the people who authorize their construction are corrupt, or worship a giant statue of a sexually aroused Beelzebub, the fact is that we are kept largely secure from would be Napoleons, Hitlers and Stalins by the mere fact that these weapons exist.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:MAD by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, those same psychopaths have big ass bomb shelters with enough supplies to last at least a century. Do you really think that they would launch without being in their bunkers? Even better, do you believe that peons will be invited inside? Psychopaths are not stupid. Immoral and egotistical sure, but not stupid.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    3. Re:MAD by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Are we secure from the Putins though? He seems to have fun with the idea his nukes let him do whatever he wants.

    4. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A multi-lingual internet where people communicate from all over the world would likely make that refusal global

      Or provide a global recruitment platform to gather hate-filled misanthropes to focus their atrocities. And a great platform for publicizing beheadings.

      In the meantime we'll continue to maintain our arsenal and keep you safe, as you've been all your life, so you can indulge the hates you've been trained with.

    5. Re:MAD by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MAD prevented WWIII. I don't care whether the people who build them or the people who authorize their construction are corrupt, or worship a giant statue of a sexually aroused Beelzebub, the fact is that we are kept largely secure from would be Napoleons, Hitlers and Stalins by the mere fact that these weapons exist.

      Hitler would have pushed the button just before he pulled the trigger.

      MAD only works when all the owners of knukes are reasonably sane.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    6. Re:MAD by BringsApples · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MAD prevented WWIII

      WWIII is the war on terror.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    7. Re:MAD by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 2

      Somehow I doubt even Putin's craziest body double thinks his nukes let him invade the US.

    8. Re:MAD by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Our real nuclear threat is that someone either 1) demonstrably not entirely sane, or 2) with little to lose, will gain control of a working nuclear weapon and deploy it. IT doesn't matter where.

      And there are lots of slightly insane actors on the global stage who give us the very clear impression that they would absolutely do this. There need be only one.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    9. Re:MAD by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 2

      <quote>

      <quote><p>MAD prevented WWIII. I don't care whether the people who build them or the people who authorize their construction are corrupt, or worship a giant statue of a sexually aroused Beelzebub, the fact is that we are kept largely secure from would be Napoleons, Hitlers and Stalins by the mere fact that these weapons exist.</p></quote>

      <p>Hitler would have pushed the button just before he pulled the trigger.</p><p>MAD only works when all the owners of knukes are reasonably sane.</p></quote>

      Not entirely plausible. Hitler had vast stores of chemical weapons that he refused to use because of the mass destruction that he knew they would cause and even he didn't want that because he remembered the horror they caused after being attacked by chemical weapons when he was a soldier in the trenches in WWI. He could have utterly destroyed hundreds of thousands of invading Russian troops daily for a few day or weeks, until the Russian counter-attacked with the same weapons. But he didn't. If both sides had nuclear weapons, I'm sure the same rationalization would have taken place even if he was going to suicide the next day.

    10. Re:MAD by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      They can invade just about anywhere else, and no one will touch them.

    11. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nukes aren't about invading. They are all about killing life and scorching the earth. Nukes are revenge weapons.

    12. Re:MAD by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not really. We aren't seeing US/EU making drafts and sending 500,000 troops to Iraq and Syria. Not sure if that'd work anyway, but these wars are half-assed. Either make war or don't make it? The US refused to make this choice in 2003, and destroyed Iraq with criminal incompetence (not enough occupations troops. + disband the iraqi army and fire a ton of civil servants, yeah right..)

    13. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are we secure from the Putins though? He seems to have fun with the idea his nukes let him do whatever he wants.

      Putin is a helluva lot more rational than Obama - which is why Putin's been playing Obama like a fiddle.

      Just because you don't agree with Putin's goals doesn't make him irrational.

    14. Re:MAD by cavreader · · Score: 2

      The multilingual internet will be the prime catalyst of the next global war. Nuclear or otherwise. The Internet is the strategic propagandists most effective weapon. Influencing public opinion has never been easier for both governments and civilians. And there is absolutely no possibility of the US, Russia, China, or any other nuclear powers given up their nuclear arsenals so you can stop wasting your breath and pick another world injustice to protest. All of the past nuclear arms treaties are meaningless. What difference does it make if the US or Russia reduces it's warhead inventory by a few thousand warheads when they still retain thousands more?

    15. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Psychopaths are not stupid. Immoral and egotistical sure, but not stupid.

      And because they're not stupid, they realize that a life spent inside an underground concrete bunker with only a few other people to interact with would suck ass, no matter how opulent that bunker is. Which is one of many reasons they won't actually cause that to come about. So no, they're not stupid.

      You, on the other hand...

    16. Re:MAD by ihtoit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      MAD only prevented WWIII from going nuclear. The damage is far more insidious than a brilliant flash and a three mile wide mushroom cloud, the State are fucking our kids.

      They block, obfuscate, ridicule and incarcerate using false accusations such as arson, those who try and go public with their experiences in State abuse situations (Melanie Shaw, who attempted to go public with her survivor's tale of sexual abuse, trafficking and murder in Nottinghamshire got her jailed without access to medication or any medical help whatsoever - not even a visit from a chaplain - and no access to legal advice to challenge her unlawful incarceration AKA abduction while her repeatedly-delayed "swift trial by jury" (actually, a summary hearing by a single judge as it is more likely to end up being) is now put back until NEXT YEAR. Today she went on hunger strike at privately-run high security jail Peterborough). They've been doing this shit for years and as recently as 2010 they changed the Law so that children who were being abused in State "care" were not allowed to file grievances against the local authorities.

      Fuck your nukes, I don't care about them. Let's talk about what we're going to do about these paedophiles in power.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    17. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain how Putin getting his country in an economic bind by limiting trade with the west is playing anybody but the Russian people 'like a fiddle'

    18. Re:MAD by schnell · · Score: 2

      They can invade just about anywhere else, and no one will touch them.

      If by "anywhere else" you mean not a NATO country, China, India or Pakistan, then sure. Oh, and any of the Middle Eastern states where the US has presences and treaties. That even includes former Soviet Bloc countries like Poland - one step across that border would invite a major military response. And of course nothing in the Western Hemisphere since that would violate the Monroe Doctorine.

      So basically Putin can do whatever he wants with impunity, so far as that involves former Soviet Socialist Republics, or ... I guess Africa. It sucks for the ex-SSRs, but they are really the only countries that Putin can really swing his political dick around in with no controversies. He's just there hoping that he can hold power for another 5-10 years so that when Russia's petrostate windfall runs out in a couple decades, he's dead and doesn't have to take the blame for a pariah state with no economy except caviar and botnets.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    19. Re: MAD by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Nukes dont actually scorch that big a patch of earth. I think theres some ~12k nukes on the earth, and if all of them were aimed perfectly spaced at the US I think you could take out most of the buildings in the US. Thats a far sight from destroying the world.

      Dont know about the fallout though, that'd probably be pretty nasty.

    20. Re:MAD by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      MAD only works when all the owners of knukes are reasonably sane.

      The reason people relied on MAD, and the reason the US kept developing larger and larger nuclear weapons throughout the 50s, is because the alternative is letting the other guy win.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    21. Re:MAD by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Either make war or don't make it?

      Exactly, this is the mindset that has you thinking that there isn't a world war going on now. We got used to (?) large numbers of people dying at the hand of bullets, flame-throwers, grenades, mines, or non-nuclear bombs. But WW2 ended due to nuclear bombs (yeah I know that Germany surrendered prior to the bombs dropping on Japan, but Japan would have only continued the war which would have still been called "WW2"). Ever since then, the whole act of war changed because, "Holy SHIT! We can blow up the planet?" Some may argue that the only war available these days is a kind of corporate war.

      Not sure if that'd work anyway...

      I'm so glad to see someone say "anyway" rather than "anyways".

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    22. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sane in this context is hugely broad and basically means "understands that they cannot possibly win in the long run." It is not a very high bar.

    23. Re:MAD by Prune · · Score: 1

      > he was going to suicide

      "Suicide" is not a verb.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    24. Re:MAD by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 1

      > he was going to suicide

      "Suicide" is not a verb.

      Yes, it is.

      Definition 4: http://dictionary.reference.co...

      verb (used without object), suicided, suiciding.
      4. to commit suicide.

      Webster says it's a verb: http://www.merriam-webster.com...
      As does Oxford: http://www.oxforddictionaries....

    25. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A nuke would do damage, but as Japan demonstrated post WWII, a nation goes on (assuming it is bigger than say Luxembourg or Estonia, though I'm not sure who would bother nuking any small country not named Israel). India/Pakistan setting off their powder keg or two of US/Russia/China baking themselves into a corner are the main worries - that or Israel/Iran getting desperate.

    26. Re:MAD by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Will US insiders quit whining about spending 5 billion dollars to give the Crimea back to Russia for free after a Ukrainian leader of the Soviet Union stole it and attached it to his homeland. Seriously how many Russian died fighting the Nazi's including their Ukrainian Allies over that bit of territory during the second war world, hundreds of thousands, ever seriously think they were just going to let it go. They saw everything the US was plotting and scheming in the Ukraine that Russia wouldn't seek to capitalise on US arrogance and recover what was taken from them and ensure that US meddling ended up in a huge long lasting mess which only Russia could fix. Putin is neither here nor there, the only thing he most definitely beats out Uncle Tom Obama the choom gang coward on, is he most definitely is not a corporate puppet.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    27. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because he knows the West - and especially the EU - can't afford to play tough boy with Russia in the long term. The sanctions enacted by the EU and the subsequent retaliation from Russia have damaged the European economy to the point that any significant recovery is now more years in the future. Of course, this will highly advantage the US which will negotiate from an unassailable position of strength the terms of the transatlantic trade treaty.

    28. Re:MAD by HuguesT · · Score: 2

      In english you can verb nouns if you want. However, like Hobbes said, verbing weirds language.

    29. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since they are in power, there's nothing you can do. Sorry. One day you will understand that being powerful means that there is a very different set of rules for them. They're not peons like you and me, see. Suck it up, this is how the world goes.

    30. Re:MAD by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Correction, MAD has prevented WWIII, so far. Maybe the period between WWII and what will develop into something known later as WWIII is much longer than expected. What if Hitler's mayhem were eclipsed? Is there a country with sizable military might (including tactical nukes) that is willing to use every tool in the shed? The Soviet Union was not that adversary, thankfully. No, not North Korea. Could China be taken by storm by a new charismatic national and cultural leader, who takes a more aggressive stance? Maybe Putin suddenly loses his mind or a successor becomes desperate or calls our perceived bluff.

      I can't see either terrorists or nations without a country gaining enough leverage to start a global war before cooler heads can prevail, but who is to say that now-secure and predictable weapons will never fall into the hands of corrupt factions of a legitimate government, or that an unexpected military coup could never be successful anywhere? I hope you turn out to be right that MAD prevented WWIII (for good), but the future is long, and is really just history that hasn't happened yet. The best we can do to protect ourselves is to eliminate as many threats as possible, by whatever appropriate means, and to nullify most of the rest with the ability to destroy an entire country and devastate whole regions if we are tested.

      If you acknowledge that there will always be a top dog and a struggle to be number one, do you want to take any chance of losing alpha status? The nuclear genie is out of the lamp, so as much as I hate to say this, we have to maintain our military superiority, and that means keeping our nuclear arsenal ready and usable, able to target nearly any point on earth at a moment's notice, and enough to obliterate any attacker. Maybe I sound like the computer from War Games (maybe I amthe computer from War Games), but having the nukes to dissuade any attacker seems like a good idea to me. Nukes aren't going away, sadly, so you're either dominant or your security is at risk.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    31. Re:MAD by grfrkr · · Score: 1

      WW3 is the economical war. And US is about to lose it...

    32. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hitler would have pushed the button just before he pulled the trigger.

      MAD only works when all the owners of knukes are reasonably sane.

      Hitler didn't use any battlefield chemical weapons during world war II although Germany had plenty. Deterrence worked.

    33. Re:MAD by wm2810 · · Score: 1

      It's a myth. Hitler killed millions of people with gas.

      He had them, but the Allies had much more. He didn't use it, because they would hold all the cards in a gas war.

      For example, the horse-drawn transport in the German Army was extremely vulnerable to gas, the Western Allies were riding on trucks.

      Hitler had no defective means of delivery those weapons, but the Allies hold air supremacy over Germany - at a moment's notice they could have drenched the German Army, the cities in gas, and the countryside in anthrax.

    34. Re:MAD by rioki · · Score: 1

      I am not sure if the Monroe Doctrine is still applicable, but the rest is spot on. On the other hand, the US will not take kindly any involvement of Russia in America (the continent), purely because of proximity. Well you know how the Cube crisis worked out...

    35. Re: MAD by rioki · · Score: 1

      This always depends on how much it radioactive material is released in total. One or two nukes will not make much; even one nuke per US major city (1-5k) will probably not make Africa or Australia inhabitable.

      On the other hand GP's point of a nuke being a revenge weapon is basically stop on. It is the type of weapon you would use as a last act of desperation.

    36. Re: MAD by rioki · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about?! Around 2000 I would have agreed with you that getting cross with Russia would mean very cold winters. But since then the EU; especially Germany have basically removed any significant reliance on Russian natural gas. Russia could vanish off the face of the earth and the EU trade balance would not be effected significantly.

    37. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call me when the New York Times or The Guardian allow it to be used as a verb in something they publish.

    38. Re:MAD by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Right so those 1000kg war head V2 rockets with a 320km/200mile range that he was lobbing all over the place (Wikipedia tells me 3172 where fired in anger) could not possibly have been used to deliver the nerve gas that the Nazi's had.

    39. Re:MAD by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's quite something when Hitler is less willing to horribly kill soldiers to save his county than the US was to horribly murder civilians to test it's nukes.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    40. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck, this, this so much.

      God forbid any of these crazy ass nuke controllers develop cancer or such, they'll take the world out just on the principle that it won't affect them.

    41. Re:MAD by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      They apparently used it in the Crimea. (Some sources say Sevastopol, others Kerch.)

      According to Wikipedia, when they interrogated Goering after the war, he told them the reason they didn't use their nerve gas to repulse the landings at Normandy was that they hadn't been able to make an effective gas mask for horses. The german army still relied primarily on horses for transport, and everyone learned in WWI that gas doesn't always go where you want it to.

      At the end, Hitler didn't care a fig what happened to Germany. He said they had failed their destiny, and he ordered destruction of their own infrastructure. He also dragged the war on for months after it was obviously lost, to the great harm of the Geman people.

      If deterrence worked, we wouldn't have had two world wars.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    42. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fwiw, Poland *is* a NATO member, since 1999. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

    43. Re:MAD by wm2810 · · Score: 1

      No, they couldn't. The V2 was't design for delivering gas.
      It's warhead detonated on impact. Its a very inefficient method of delivery, because most of the gas would bury into ground at supersonic speed.

      Anyway 3172 rockets was an equivalent of a single large scale bombing mission over Germany done with Lancasters.

    44. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. WWIII *was* terror of war (AKA Cold War). The War on Terror is technically WW4 (after some point roman numerals are just silly).

    45. Re: MAD by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Funny

      One or two nukes will not make much; even one nuke per US major city (1-5k) will probably not make Africa or Australia inhabitable.

      Subtle troll is subtle. Well done.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    46. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even close. If you are going to misuse the WWIII label like that, you might as well use WWIII for Korea, Vietnam, or the "war on drugs". A world war is direct warfare between the world's major powers. Not proxy wars and not "war" against stateless actors (aka criminals).

    47. Re:MAD by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      the US kept developing larger and larger nuclear weapons throughout the 50s

      What's funny, is that at some point someone sat down and did a little math, and realized that there is a vast scale of diminishing returns when scaling up anything that explodes. So the modern nuclear arsenal from every nation that has these weapons is made up of significantly smaller yield weapons than were tested and deployed in the 1950s.

      The bulk of the US arsenal are "dial-a-yield" devices that top out around 450kt, because they are easier to lift and guide where you want them. Or, and you can fit multiple of them on the same rocket you used to have one big ass 5Mt warhead on. Missile crews at Vandenburg AFB aren't simply trying to put one of these things inside a neighborhood - they aren't happy unless their test "warhead" can actually hit an oil drum with a target painted on it from 9,000 miles away. It's not good enough to just put a hot one into a city - they want to put it exactly above some munitions storage facility, or an air field, or a naval base. And they drill on it.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    48. Re:MAD by Archtech · · Score: 1

      "Hitler would have pushed the button just before he pulled the trigger".

      As would Obama, Dubya, Clinton, GHW, all the way back to Kennedy. (Maybe Eisenhower wouldn't have). If his plans for global conquest had failed utterly, the USA was a shambles from coast to coast, and Russian soldiers were approaching a couple of blocks away intending to give him what Qadafi got before he died.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    49. Re:MAD by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Call me when anyone cares what the Guardian or the NYT does.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    50. Re:MAD by Archtech · · Score: 1

      It's also quite something to reflect that Hitler did a far better job fixing his country's economy between 1933 and 1939 than Roosevelt did. Things are seldom what they seem.

      “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
        Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    51. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit fucking around in that hemisphere - problem solved.

    52. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a poor argument, given that aerial burst shells were extensively used even in the previous world war. Do you think it would really be that difficult to rig a detonation during the ballistic phase?

      The second argument is, of course, correct. The V weapons were terror weapons and really were never a potential large scale threat.

    53. Re: MAD by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Dont know about the fallout though, that'd probably be pretty nasty.

      If you're wrecking cities, you go for airbursts, which result in (relatively) low fallout.

      If you're doing a counterforce strike (attacking their nuclear missiles), then you go for groundbursts, which result in quite a lot of fallout.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    54. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia under Putin is not much different from the way the old Soviet Union acted back in the bad old days. Honestly, containment needs to be reintroduced.

    55. Re: MAD by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      The great thing about nuclear weapons is that they're most effective against cities and other surface targets when detonated in an airburst. The fallout from an airburst causes significantly less fallout of the kill-everything-on-Earth kind, and less uninhabitable-for-a-few-dozen-millennia radiation on the ground than a comparable surface-detonated weapon. This is one of the reasons why Hiroshima and Nagasaki are inhabitable today (both were airbursts), while Chernobyl is going to take... a few more years.

    56. Re:MAD by operagost · · Score: 1

      I guess FDR just got the fascism/socialism balance wrong. Maybe he should have dissolved his legislative branch, too, instead of trying to eliminate the judicial.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    57. Re:MAD by careysub · · Score: 1

      No, they couldn't. The V2 was't design for delivering gas. It's warhead detonated on impact. Its a very inefficient method of delivery, because most of the gas would bury into ground at supersonic speed.

      Anyway 3172 rockets was an equivalent of a single large scale bombing mission over Germany done with Lancasters.

      The V-2 could very easily have been used to deliver gas. A very efficient manner for delivering the nerve gas Tabun is an air burst missile warhead, where the "burst" is caused simply by strip charges splitting the missile nose, exposing the agent to the supersonic airflow. This results in a vertical line of fine aerosol being generated, which then creates a long ellipse of highly exposed terrain downwind as if descends (the U.S. developed missile warheads that worked like this in the 1950s and early 1960s). The only triggering method required for this is a clock. They could calculate the flight time of the missile accurately enough to burst it 1000-2000 m in the air.

      Each missile carried a 1000 kg payload. It was possible for Germany to launch about 100 V-2 a day in a maximum effort surge attack (a strategy not actually employed during the war). Additionally V-1s delivered a payload of 850 kg, and more than 100 were actually launched in a day at the peak of the V-1 campaign. Delivering 185 tons of Tabun into the Greater London area in a single day was within Germany's ability, and the casualties would have been considerable - truly a terror weapon.

      But as you point out, Bomber Command could exceed this in dropping gas on German cities on a regular basis, even compensating for the lower toxicity of the agents employed (roughly an 8-1 ratio). Thus no plans for gassing London were ever developed.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    58. Re: MAD by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      So in other words you probably do a mixture of air and ground bursts, thereby achieving maximum damage to both humanity and the planet.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    59. Re:MAD by careysub · · Score: 1

      They apparently used it in the Crimea. (Some sources say Sevastopol, others Kerch.)

      In other words, they used them under circumstances where they did not fear retaliation in kind. Similarly Germany used gas to kill millions of captive people, again under circumstances where no retaliation was feared.

      This actually supports the deterrence claims, it does not refute it.

      According to Wikipedia, when they interrogated Goering after the war, he told them the reason they didn't use their nerve gas to repulse the landings at Normandy was that they hadn't been able to make an effective gas mask for horses.

      Making gas masks for horses was a solved problem in WW-I. Germany had gas mask canisters that could protect against Tabun. Goering's ramblings in captivity mean little other than as a source for analyzing his personal delusions.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    60. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you know how the Cube crisis worked out...

      Yeah, everyone died except the idiot-savant.

    61. Re:MAD by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      WWIII was civilization vs. the communists; fought in various proxy wars (Korea, Vietnam, etc.). Civilization mostly won.

      WWIV is civilization vs. Islamic nutjobs.

    62. Re:MAD by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's well known that the Nazis were horrified at the idea of using gas...those concentration camps just had really unlucky plumbing.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    63. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we secure from the Putins though? He seems to have fun with the idea his nukes let him do whatever he wants.

      Putin is a helluva lot more rational than Obama - which is why Putin's been playing Obama like a fiddle.

      Just because you don't agree with Putin's goals doesn't make him irrational.

      I think Putin is the one a few cards short of a full deck, but more politically saavy. Certainly both Putin and Obama are megalomaniacs.

    64. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hitler would have pushed the button just before he pulled the trigger.

      MAD only works when all the owners of knukes are reasonably sane.

      What about weapons not derived from Canadian citizens?

    65. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "recover what was taken from them"
      It's not a fucking TOY.. It is a god dam place. A place where people live, children are born. Old people die and are mourned.
      Now it is a war zone and completely innocent people are being killed, their houses and business destroyed.. And for WHAT?
      So Putin can point on a map on his wall and say that this line is 3 inches closer to the west than it was the day before?

      Putin and the rest of the corrupt people who run Russia are completely crazy and are killing people for no sensible reason.

    66. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a war on a concept is doomed to failure. it's also a metaphorical war, not in the same league at all as WW1 and WW2.

    67. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the Bushes, and the Obamas.

    68. Re:MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. We aren't seeing US/EU making drafts and sending 500,000 troops to Iraq and Syria. Not sure if that'd work anyway, but these wars are half-assed. Either make war or don't make it? The US refused to make this choice in 2003, and destroyed Iraq with criminal incompetence (not enough occupations troops. + disband the iraqi army and fire a ton of civil servants, yeah right..)

      You're right, it was criminal to blast a country to nothing and then have your western buddies line their pockets with construction contracts but it has long been realised that wars are more profitable when sustained then they are when they are won or lost...

    69. Re: MAD by rioki · · Score: 1

      I don't know... On a global scale you could probably absorb relative much radiation before it becomes hazardous to humans. Sure the actual areas where the nukes detonated is different story.

    70. Re:MAD by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/melanie-shaw-beechwood-child-abuse-witness-held-peterborough-prison

      I didn't know much about the story. Is the above article accurate? Why isn't the UK public screaming bloody murder? In the US an allegation of child abuse/sex abuse in a kids orphanage/shelter, especially if it supposedly involved higher ups... that would be on every news channel 24/7.

    71. Re:MAD by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      yes, that is she. The reason it's not causing riots (it should be) is that the courtroom was cleared prior to the hearing and there is an active blanket gag on unapproved reporting by mainstream media due to the subject matter and the people implicated. UKColumn is pretty much the only agency reporting in the UK, because - as Brian Gerrish himself has said, they do not answer to the Levison Cartel.

      I can vouch for everything said in that article, as I have been personally made aware of several dozen people by those people, of the abuse they suffered at Beechwood, Wood Nook and other establishments. I have taken a number of statements over the time I've carried out my own investigations and forwarded evidence in the form of transcripts, historical documents, and other media, to relevant International authorities such as the United Nations Security Council and the High Commissioner for Children (among a great many others) as well as specifically, a report concerning the abduction and trafficking of children of foreign nationals by the British State for financial gain - as admitted by the State! - to the Embassies of each of 114 countries identified as victim States of this crime, including the United States, South Africa, Mexico, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Ghana, China, Russia, France, Germany, Canada, Palestine, India, and Pakistan. The British Government are a bunch of evil, twisted fucks.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    72. Re: MAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get it. Why is he a troll? There is no sarcasm or misdirection in there. Or is it a case of not being able to tell the difference between the relative importance of destroying the US vs. all of civilization? Are y'all seriously thinking if the USA is done the rest of the WORLD doesn't matter?? Jesus fuck get some perspective, man.

      A/C because sometimes frustration about your fellow planetdwellers -does- need to be expressed openly.

    73. Re: MAD by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I said that because of the implication that Africa and Australia are not "inhabitable" now, and/or that destroying the US would improve their habitability. I realize it was most likely unintentional, but I was amused so I decided to call it out anyway.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  7. More lucky than careful... by ChrisKnight · · Score: 5, Informative

    For fifteen years, our launch codes were a string of zeros. Only poorly placed Dippy Bird and we would have all died.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    --
    -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
    1. Re:More lucky than careful... by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Informative

      Dude, you didn't even read the article you linked:

      However, amid the renewed hype over the easily cracked code, a crucial element has been largely overlooked: Though the physical code preventing an unauthorized missile launch may have been all zeroes, the process of arming the actual nuclear warhead was much more involved, according to the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force. This is the seemingly made-for-Hollywood process involving the simultaneous turning of keys, "Emergency War Order" safes and verified launch codes, which presumably were not all zeros.

      An unarmed missile is barely a dirty bomb.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:More lucky than careful... by gman003 · · Score: 2

      Those were the PAL codes, basically a safety. On top of that, you've got the two-man rule and the authorization codes (the ones the President carries), plus dozens of safeties against accidents. The PALs were really there to secure it when on loan to other countries - like the nukes positioned in Europe.

      Yes, it was dumb. They've remedied that now. However, the British didn't even have that, and to this day there is no similar safety on British nuclear weapons.

    3. Re:More lucky than careful... by m.alessandrini · · Score: 2

      Talking about luck, I recently read that there are a tenth or more of "missing" nuclear bombs, lost around the world by both USA and USSR.

    4. Re:More lucky than careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An unarmed missile is barely a dirty bomb.

      It's not the one unarmed missile that kills you, it's the five hundred armed ones the opposing side will send over in response before they realize they responded to a dud.

    5. Re:More lucky than careful... by argStyopa · · Score: 2

      True....and false.
      An unarmed missile IS barely a dirty bomb, but a wave of missile launches, say from 1962 to 1989 or so, would likely have prompted the other side to launch their counterstrike (the point was to get them launched and in a high ballistic arc before the other guy's landed as the fear was that successive EMPs might deactivate crucial circuitry in your outgoing warheads).

      So yes, your unauthorized launch in and of itself was not even a V1-level explosion.
      What it would have likely started might have been armageddon.

      --
      -Styopa
    6. Re:More lucky than careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you didn't even read the article you linked:

      Dude, he linked to a Huff Post article, nobody reads their crap.

  8. Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back during Cold War I, one of the big TV networks made a movie about nuclear war (and aftermath) called The Day After. Every sane and rational person should watch it every 5 or 10 years to remind themselves of the horrific nature of nuclear war. Ironically, the film is set between Kansas City and Lawrence, KS. The film hopefully cools the excitement about nukes. Probably best not to show the film to radical jihadists as it would likely have the opposite effect.

    1. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 2

      Yes, The Day After is a very good movie as it embedded some very real conversations we used to have while sitting alert (Minuteman I (Mod) in 1970's).

      I also watch "United 93" the way Israelis visit Masada and vow, "Masada shall not fall again!". Not for the heroics at the end, but for the many presentations of people struggling to understand what was going on. A fight we all are waging all the time, nowadays.

      --
      "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
    2. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Lord_Breetai · · Score: 1

      A few more at the bottom of this page on IMDB.

      --
      "You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
    3. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

      Yes, but Testament was much more depressing.

    4. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by mi · · Score: 1

      Every sane and rational person should watch it every 5 or 10 years to remind themselves of the horrific nature of nuclear war.

      Except movies rarely (if ever) appeal to rationality.

      In this particular case, a sane and rational person might ask himself, how do they know, it will be so bad? There has never been an experiment attempted... Not even close...

      The film hopefully cools the excitement about nukes.

      I'm unaware of any excitement about nukes, that needs cooling. I am aware of the largely irrational fear of nukes — even of nuclear power plants. And I would rather we used nuclear weapons, than give up and surrender should our conventional forces fail.

      Our hesitation to use them in Korea — to kill off hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops supporting the Northern Communists — for example, has condemned millions to the still ongoing decades of dire poverty and tyranny...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie. Narrated by William Shatner. For anyone under 40 that want's to see the power of the bomb and how it can turn an island into a deep underwater crater, watch it! Imagine MIRVs streaking across the nation like shooting stars...only level entire cities moments later.

    6. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Prune · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up--he is spot on that they should have been used against the Chinese troops supporting the North. This was even more justifiable in terms of the massive suffering that would have been prevented than even the savings in lives lost from an alternative of ground invasion by the decisive strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    7. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      People should walk at least once in their lifetime the radius of destruction in Hiroshima up to the Atomic dome to get a real sense of the level of destruction that a small nuclear bomb can do. I sort of did it last summer, from Hiroshima Castle and halfway the path to the Atomic dome I was crying, the carnage that could come in a modern city even with that old small weapon is mindblowing, what kind of barely sane person would do that now?

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    8. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... about nuclear war (and aftermath) ...

      Australian 'On the beach' (1959)
      American 'The day after' (1983)
      British 'Threads' (1984)
      Australian 'On the beach' (2000)

      Then there's the accidental nuclear bombing in American movies 'Fail-safe' (1964) and 'Fail safe' (2000).

    9. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      GP is a chickenhawk. People like him are the reason for the current mess in Iraq. Besides, the mess in Korea was American's fault in first place - they have supported a bloody dictator for the sole reason of being an anticommunist. It was so bad that up to the 1970ies North Korea had higher standard of living. Without that meddling things could have been way better.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    10. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by chaosdivine69 · · Score: 1

      I remember watching this movie as a child on TV late one night because I was feeling rebellious over being directed to go to sleep by my parents. Little did I realize until afterwards that doing so would prevent me from being able to sleep properly for two weeks or so beyond that instance. I was literally terrified. One of those "innocence altering" moments in life for sure. There has been one other movie that has had such an impact on me growing up and that one was Schindler's List. I guess I have a penchant for war movies...

      I have watched the Day After a few times since and though I can shake off the 70's look and feel to the movie, the underlying effect is still the same. It's very powerful. This is one movie that should be redone with modern CGI and shown to the world like clockwork. Especially in schools - but I would not recommended it until kids are teens however and can actually grasp the ramifications of what they're watching.

      Back in my parent's time, they would often describe practicing nuclear fallout drills in their schools, diving under tables, going into shelters, being told to eat iodine pills, etc. I can only imagine the effect this would have on my psyche growing up in such a time. I mean now, who would know what to do in such a situation? Not like you really stand much of a chance I suppose now a days unless your family bought one of those underground retrofitted missile silos for some iota of protection. I mean nuclear war preparedness was not taught to me in school in my generation and I know it's not taught now - at least in Canada.

      I really think today's coddled youth have no idea just how close the world has come to being blown apart (except maybe the children of Fukushima and Chernobyl would perhaps be better informed). They also wouldn't have a clue as what to do in case of a disaster like this actually occurred and how to survive if you were around by chance afterwards. I have to admit, I don't have much idea myself even now as an adult to be honest but I do know enough that I might not want to either.

    11. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Back during Cold War I, one of the big TV networks made a movie about nuclear war (and aftermath) called The Day After. Every sane and rational person should watch it every 5 or 10 years to remind themselves of the horrific nature of nuclear war.

      That's fine, but those same people should also watch The Soviet Story so they know what we were defending against. The Soviet Union was far more dangerous than Nazi Germany, and it killed far more people. At the end the Soviet Union wasn't as bloody or oppressive as it had been, but the system was the same and only lacked a new leader to go back to the old ways.

      Anyone watching that movie should also be aware that is was made while the nuclear freeze and disarmament movement as part of the "peace movement" in the West was in full swing, and of the Soviet Union's funding, influence, and control over various parts of the "peace movement" and nuclear freeze campaigns. The Soviets did this as an act of political warfare to hinder NATO in matching previous Soviet build ups of its nuclear forces in Europe, and US nuclear force modernization.

      Soviet influence on the peace movement
      "Moscow and the Peace, Offensive"

      A parallel effort of political warfare against the US was the Soviet propaganda that the US created the AIDs virus. There are still people that believe that, some even have posted it on Slashdot.

      Soviets Sponsor Spread of AIDS Disinformation

      The Soviets were dangerous liars.

      Soviet Subversion of the Free World Press

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    12. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that The Day After was shameless propaganda of an order that would make Leni Reifenstahl blush.

      The Hollywood establishment despised Reagan and was willing to do anything to portray him as a crazy warmonger and highlight public terror of nuclear weapons.

      The movie, btw, full length: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
       

      --
      -Styopa
    13. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Have you also toured the gulags in Russia?

    14. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      The original Red Dawn is also a movie "folks need to see". It portrays what would happen if the Russian's had been able to disable the American's nuclear arsenal through infiltration.

    15. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by mi · · Score: 1

      GP is a chickenhawk.

      Bzzz... Ad-hominem detected. Attaching labels to your opponents does not win an argument.

      People like him are the reason for the current mess in Iraq.

      The current mess in Iraq (and Libya) is the doing of your Nobel Peace Prize boy-wonder. Had we pulled troops from Western Germany in 1950ies, there would've been a new wave of violence there too — gleefully supported by the Communists occupying the Eastern part...

      Sure, it was Bush, who prepared the plan for our withdrawal, but only someone trying to appease the "anti-war" crowd would execute the final part of it, given the ISIS' growing power.

      Obama's weakness — and the catastrophic results of that weakness — were predictable. And unavoidable, given the sort of lunatic, that is the fount of "foreign policy expertise" of the Administration.

      Besides, the mess in Korea was American's fault in first place - they have supported a bloody dictator for the sole reason of being an anticommunist. It was so bad that up to the 1970ies North Korea had higher standard of living. Without that meddling things could have been way better.

      I can well see, how a kinder gentler Southern regime would get overrun by Communist North — turning the entire Korean peninsula into a hellhole. But I fail to understand, what would have made things better for today's North Koreans, had the South Korea become democratic earlier. Could you elaborate?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    16. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      This was not an "ad hominem". This was an insult. Don't you know the difference?

      And now I am going to call you an idiot (another insult, by the way) for assuming that Obama would be somehow mine, even though I am from Germany, never been to USA and not planning to go to.

      The current mess in Iraq has been caused by toppling Saddam Hussein. And then by arming the crazies who were rebelling against Assad. Like I said, chickenhawks like you.

      You are seriously calling the Southern regime back then "kindler gentler"? Never heard of the Jeju massacre? Like already mentioned, up till the 1970ies South Korea was a hellhole worse than North Korea - and this is an impressive achievment. Syngman Rhee was an evil bastard and probably murdered more people than Kim Il Sung.

      Without American intervention a way less radical government for an united Korea would be quite possible, more akin to former Yugoslavia. Only the war helped the real crazies remain in power.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    17. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by mi · · Score: 1

      This was not an "ad hominem". This was an insult. Don't you know the difference?

      There distinction you are trying to make, idiot, is without difference. When you switch an argument from the topic being argued to the person doing the arguing — whether it is name-calling or discussing his hygiene — it is an argumentum ad hominem — a fallacy.

      Chickenhawk is perfectly fine carnivorous bird, by the way — can't really insult anyone with such a comparison, unless you are trying to use the term policitcally:

      a political term used in the United States to describe a person who strongly supports war or other military action, yet who actively avoids or avoided military service when of age.

      You don't know anything about me to be able claim, I took active steps to avoid military service in any war the US fought, nor do you know my age.

      Your having committed an ad hominem first, and an idiocy of misusing a term that your fellow idiots have misused too, thus established, let's get back to the other topics.

      assuming that Obama would be somehow mine

      If you are from Europe, then Obama is "yours" even more — whereas his popularity in the US in 2008 barely exceeded the 50% necessary for being elected, he was and remains more popular in the corrupt continent (80+%). For all I care, you can have him any day of the week — the sooner the better. Just be sure to take Joe Biden with him.

      The current mess in Iraq has been caused by toppling Saddam Hussein.

      Yeah, nothing like a strong leader for those unwashed sand-niggers, is there? Some peoples may have a democratic government, but certain untermensch just need a strong hand, right?

      And then by arming the crazies who were rebelling against Assad.

      Right. Because only a crazy could rebel against the kind and benevolent king (masquerading as elected President) such as Assad. Sure. But even if that's the problem, in your opinion, it was Obama's doing — and he was never called "chickenhawk" in his life.

      You are seriously calling the Southern regime back then "kindler gentler"?

      No, you dimwit. If you can't read English, stay out of English arguments. I challenged you to explain, how the things would've been better in the North Korea, if the South Korea's regime was kinder and gentler.

      Without American intervention a way less radical government for an united Korea would be quite possible

      Sure. And Palestine would've been a united and calm, if America had not given Israel any support. And China would've unified into a calm Confucian existence long ago, had the US not defended Taiwan. And Germany too would've united much earlier — under Eric Honecker (or even Ulbricht), of course. Wouldn't such have been a better world? If only the US war-mongers didn't resist Communism, huh?..

      Sorry, but I'm rather glad there are enough of my countrymen still supporting that earlier chickenhawk's doctrine:

      Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    18. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      There distinction you are trying to make, idiot, is without difference. When you switch an argument from the topic being argued to the person doing the arguing â" whether it is name-calling or discussing his hygiene â" it is an argumentum ad hominem â" a fallacy.

      Nope. I didn't say that your argumentation is wrong because you are an idiot - that would be ad hominem - I have called you an idiot because of your stupid arguments: which basically consist of "kill the evil commies" and "military fuck yeah".

      If you are from Europe, then Obama is "yours" even more â" whereas his popularity in the US in 2008 barely exceeded the 50% necessary for being elected, he was and remains more popular in the corrupt continent (80+%). For all I care, you can have him any day of the week â" the sooner the better. Just be sure to take Joe Biden with him.

      "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire.
      Your cult of personality is also meaningless to me and
      your country is in fact more corrupt than mine.

      Yeah, nothing like a strong leader for those unwashed sand-niggers, is there? Some peoples may have a democratic government, but certain untermensch just need a strong hand, right?

      It is quite hypocritical to accuse me of logical fallacies and yourself using
      #1: a strawman argument here and another strawman argument in the next paragraph

      And no, Iraq is democratic in name only and a good part of the rebels in Syria were indeed islamist crazies. Your government has funded and armed a civil war and for what? And I don't care, whether it was Obama or Bush, from over here I cannot see any real difference.

      Sure. And Palestine would've been a united and calm, if America had not given Israel any support. And China would've unified into a calm Confucian existence long ago, had the US not defended Taiwan. And Germany too would've united much earlier â" under Eric Honecker (or even Ulbricht), of course. Wouldn't such have been a better world? If only the US war-mongers didn't resist Communism, huh?..

      Ah, the loggical fallacy #2: non sequitur
      First, Israel is very well able to defend themselves, they have a thriving military industry. Second, if Merkins, Brits and the French hadn't decided to start a pissing contest with the Soviets, Germany would have been reunited in the 1950ies and neutral just as Austria is. And after Stalin died, it would have been even better.

      But no, the pissing contest must go on, damn the costs.

      No, you dimwit. If you can't read English, stay out of English arguments. I challenged you to explain, how the things would've been better in the North Korea, if the South Korea's regime was kinder and gentler.

      My English is good enough. And I speak three other languages, by the way. And you fail reading comprehension. I have very explained whereto a war leads. A better government in South Korea would have avoided the civil war. In fact, without Syngman Ree's action there would not have been North Korea in first place, it was created as the reaction to his actions. And without the previous mentioned pissing contest there would have been one single Korea, as planned at the Yalta conference.

      Rising and sleeping under the blanket of the very freedom we provide, you are questioning the manner in which we provide it... Chicken.

      Yes, I do question it. Your military doesn't provide freedom, it only pushes everyone involved in stupid ventures, mafia style: "It is nice freedom you have there. Would be a shame if something happened to it." For all I care, Germany should have quit NATO decades ago. Or even better, never have participated in it.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    19. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I guess that moderator didn't want us to know why the US relied so heavily on nuclear arms. Either that or it was an offended fan of communism, the bloodiest ideology of the modern age.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    20. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Soviets lied? More or less than the Americans? Seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

    21. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The Soviets were enormous liars, far more than the US. It is practically night and day. If you aren't clear on that point it seems likely that you don't know enough of the history. I don't think that being high on pot would be enough to blur the distinction.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    22. Re:Folks need to see 'The Day After' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rising and sleeping under the blanket of the very freedom we provide, you are questioning the manner in which we provide it... Chicken.

      Jesus christ, you really are a blind fucking asshole. Others seem to be having no luck educating you with well-thought-out arguments, so I'm just going to come here and say it.
      If the USA didn't raise so many people like you, with this exact kind of blind self-righteous arrogance, your country wouldn't be so isolated from the rest of society in the first place. And here you go driving the nail even deeper, in an effort to "defend" it.

  9. Shudder by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

    It seems to me the use of strategies like this assume that the people involved are relatively rational.

    In our current world this doesn't seem to be that good an assumption.

    And it doesn't help places like the Ukraine at all. Russia just says we has nukes so neener neener.

    1. Re:Shudder by Mspangler · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "It seems to me the use of strategies like this assume that the people involved are relatively rational.

      In our current world this doesn't seem to be that good an assumption."

      Nor in the past world. Read "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman.

      My first thought was "What were they thinking?" My next thought was "There was no thought involved." 17 million dead by the end, and not a nuke in sight. They didn't even discover the neutron until 1932.

  10. Logical Steps to MADness by gus+goose · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, you identify yourself as personally involved in both the tactical, and theoretical side of an issue that spans generations now, and then you extend that back to WW2. Skip forward to current-day Kansas, link in the politics of the current president, quoting (hopefully accurate) political campaign rhetoric (with an undercurrent of disdain).

    Now, throw in the logical statement "Mind you, Mutual Assured Destruction is a dangerous path" ... really, it's a dangerous path?

    Then, jump to the strategic level where we assume you are correct that it only works with rational people (and let's also assume you are assuming that American people (voters) and politicians are rational too).

    now throw in some blackboard theory from the 90's.... and viola!

    Obama's policies don't get enough peace in return....

    I imagine there's maybe 1, or 2 people in the world who can navigate sanely though that argument chain.... certainly not me. So. This is one of those.... blah blah blah posts that says more about submitters to slashdot than American policy.

    --
    .. if only.
    1. Re: Logical Steps to MADness by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      If I had mod, I'd give a +1 Insightful ...

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Logical Steps to MADness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I do get Obama, Kansas, MAD. But viola? What's she doing here?

  11. Not MAD. by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Interesting

    *Sigh* A former cold warrior you may be, but all you do is give proof to what I've long said - a worm's eye view doesn't make you an expert. Or even knowledgeable. (And yeah, the view of a launch control officer is pretty low level). Having been an SSBN weapons tech (and FTB to be precise), I'm quite aware of just how little can be seen from the operating level.

    America's nuclear strategy isn't MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), and hasn't been for a couple of decades now. The strategy we're working towards now is Minimal Deterrence - the smallest number of weapons needed for deterrence.

    1. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How many SSBN's does the U.S. have? 18? How many deployed all over the world? One of them has enough firepower to nuke the earth.

      The Russians are still building theirs and the Chinese are right behind them. All we are doing is playing a shell game. The best shell game is to move them underwater.

    2. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > One of them has enough firepower to nuke the earth.

      Nope.

    3. Re:Not MAD. by s.petry · · Score: 4, Informative

      America's nuclear strategy isn't MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), and hasn't been for a couple of decades now. The strategy we're working towards now is Minimal Deterrence - the smallest number of weapons needed for deterrence.

      Based on the numbers, it's not simply deterrence. That may be where some folks want to go, but certainly not where we are today. Reduction to be just a deterrent only is heavily dependent on where other countries maintain their stockpiles.

      Most comments I have seen so far only discuss one edge on this blade, and like it or not it is a double edged sword. The number of weapons we have has been negotiated down with our biggest rival. ~1500 multiple warhead weapons is still enough to blow up the world several times over, and this does not account for the tactical nuclear weapons. Further, we can only hope that some other countries like China and India are being honest with the numbers they claim. The US and Russia may be completely outpaced and not know it.

      At present, the goal is to modernize the weapons we have. This improvement process is not simply to make weapons better, but required to maintain them safely. The latter seems to be overlooked.

      The concern I gathered from the article is really that these same new modern facilities could be used to increase our weapons base by future administrations. Something I agree should be considered in all big political decisions (not to be confused with refusing all political decisions).

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "America's nuclear strategy isn't MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)" Except yes it is, we have well over the number for minimum destruction of all places on Earth.

    5. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your nope is true.

    6. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. One SSBN can easily destroy a superpower and thus the entire world economy. Easily.

    7. Re:Not MAD. by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Further, we can only hope that some other countries like China and India are being honest with the numbers they claim. The US and Russia may be completely outpaced and not know it.

      That's the folly of the Cold War and the Cold Warrior mentality - WE MUST HAVE MORE THAN THE OTHER GUY. Weapons piled on weapons piled on weapons neither increases security nor improves the chances of "winning" a nuclear exchange. Once you have enough to dismember the Other Guy (or to at least put him in the national equivalent of an ICU), more weapons just means you have more weapons - you can only destroy him once no matter how many weapons you have. That's the essential philosophy of Minimal Deterrence.

    8. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize you have just proved you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, right?

    9. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ~1500 multiple warhead weapons is still enough to blow up the world several times over,

      No it's not. The very idea is preposterous. Blast radius of a 1mt Minuteman warhead is about .48km. Assuming an absurdly unrealistic "destroyed" zone 100 times the area of the blast, and assuming perfect coverage with no overlap, 1500 warheads gets us an area of 1.1 million square kilometers. The Earth has a land area of about 149 million square kilometers. It doesn't even break the 1% point.

    10. Re:Not MAD. by brainboyz · · Score: 1

      That's a scary thought, that China might be sitting on 15 or 20k weapons, but claiming sub-1k.

    11. Re:Not MAD. by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      ~1500 multiple warhead weapons is still enough to blow up the world several times over

      No, its not, not even remotely close.
      (figures taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...)
        * Nuclear warheads have an area of destruction of some 180mi^2 (1MT, "destruction of buildings" = 6 miles).
        * The US is 3,717,813 miles^2
        * 3,717,813 / 180 = 20,000 1MT warheads to cover the US in "moderate destruction".

      It gets better.

      The world's land area is 57.53 million square miles. That means you need a hefty 320,000 1 MT (quite a large warhead, MUCH bigger than the ones we used at Nagasaki) warheads to "destroy the world". And you say we have that, several times over? My goodness, what countries are you supposing has that many? I had understood the US to have the most with some 6000, and other than western europe and Russia I didnt think anyone else had any. Dr Evil, perhaps?

      Maybe you're talking about fallout, but thats not really what "destroy" means; a word like "contaminate" would be more accurate, if also much more vague.

    12. Re:Not MAD. by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Thats not just wrong, its hillariously wrong. "Destroying the earth" would require several hundred thousand very high yield nukes (1MT); there arent more than a bit over 10k in the world and the info I was able to find indicates theyre generally much smaller than 1MT (so, perhaps a million nukes to be sure).

      Im not sure exactly how much uranium would be required for "several million 500kt nuclear warheads), but Im quite certain noone has that much.

    13. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that you have proved nothing at all either and have done nothing more than make a glib statement with absdolutely no backup or counterclaims whatsoever.

      Begone troll!

    14. Re:Not MAD. by Sabriel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're thinking "world" = "surface area". I strongly suspect the GP is thinking "world" = "modern civilisation". Deploy even a fifth of those 1500 MIRVs against the planet by strategically targeting urban population centres in order of descending population, and the world as we know it would be gone.

    15. Re:Not MAD. by Sabriel · · Score: 2

      I had understood the US to have the most with some 6000, and other than western europe and Russia I didnt think anyone else had any.

      From the website of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Russia and US have rough parity, then it's France/China/Britain, then Israel/Pakistan/India, then North Korea, in descending orders of magnitude.

      http://bos.sagepub.com/content...

    16. Re:Not MAD. by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Why would it matter whether china or Russia are being honest. They all have enough to destroy the world, does it matter whether than can do it only once or a 100 times over? The idiotic mentality that we must have more than the other side is just that "IDIOTIC". once you have enough to kill everyone on the planet many times over anything else is just defense companies wanting to spend more to increase their pay checks.

    17. Re:Not MAD. by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      You don't need to blanket bomb the entire world to completely destroy it for humans, just a fraction of the land mass being bombed would be enough to cause a nuclear winter that would end humanity.

    18. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It only took 4 planes to change USA and the effects rippled across the entire world. Only one nuke would be needed to considerably alter the world as we know it.

    19. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know what you're talking about, dumb faggot.

    20. Re:Not MAD. by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Except that the vast majority of the population is NOT in population centers, but spread across the surface area.

      Nukes also have an easier time leveling buildings than they do utterly decimating populations. The fireball generally is very small, the overpressure that will kill you is a bit bigger, but theres a wide zone of "buildings become unsound" where people suffer much lesser effects.

      You're right that it would screw up civilization, but only for a bit. WW2 wrecked a LOT of countries, but they did bounce back because people dont tend to sit amidst rubble going "what do we do now"-- they tend to rebuild society.

    21. Re:Not MAD. by MRe_nl · · Score: 2

      Today, 54 per cent of the worldâ(TM)s population lives in urban areas, a proportion that is expected to increase to 66 per cent by 2050

      http://www.un.org/en/developme...

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    22. Re:Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the vast majority of the population is NOT in population centers, but spread across the surface area.

      Statement fails regardless of your definition of "is".

    23. Re:Not MAD. by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I think you are (intentionally?) using a non dictionary definition for "destroy". Rendering the surface of the Earth uninhabitable due to radioactive particles covering all surface area is destruction. Check your local dictionary, "destroy" is to render something completely useless. You seem to be replacing the word with "demolish"

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    24. Re:Not MAD. by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Fallout is not limited to Urban areas, sorry. Stop trying to minimize the destructive force of nuclear weapons, your position is flat out wrong.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    25. Re:Not MAD. by careysub · · Score: 2

      ~1500 multiple warhead weapons is still enough to blow up the world several times over,

      No it's not. The very idea is preposterous. Blast radius of a 1mt Minuteman warhead is about .48km. Assuming an absurdly unrealistic "destroyed" zone 100 times the area of the blast, and assuming perfect coverage with no overlap, 1500 warheads gets us an area of 1.1 million square kilometers.

      Making up numbers are we? The destruction radius of a typical 400 kT modern warhead (urban airburst) is actually larger than the "4.8 km" you pulled out your nether regions for a 1 MT warhead. Far from being "absurdly unrealistic", your urban destruction radius is actually a low-ball. In a nuclear urban annihilation attack (multiple warheads against large cities) a destruction radius of 7 km is reasonable (anyone outside is fatally burned, buildings are damaged enough to serve as efficient furnaces as the multitude of set fires merge into a fire storm).

      This gives us an urban area destroyed of ~150 km^2 per warhead, or a total of 225,000 km^2. This is not the whole world, but it is about half of the world's total urban area with populations larger than 500,0000 numbering 2 billion people. Such an attack could easily destroy the world's entire petrochemical processing and storage infrastructure in a single stroke, as well as all of its major ports. Half the urban population in the world dead all at once. No oil or food shipments for anyone, anywhere. A billion deaths is just the starting point. How far would the population fall through famine and disease until it stabilizes?

      Not the "end of the world", but the "end of the world as we know it" for sure.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    26. Re:Not MAD. by doconnor · · Score: 1

      It is 54% that live in urban areas that create the "world as we know it". Many of the rural population are little more then subsistence farmers.

    27. Re:Not MAD. by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      Nukes also have an easier time leveling buildings than they do utterly decimating populations. The fireball generally is very small, the overpressure that will kill you is a bit bigger, but theres a wide zone of "buildings become unsound" where people suffer much lesser effects.

      It's already been said, but it bears repeating. If you want to kill people instead of things you go for radiological warfare, i.e. you rely on fallout, not blast overpressure. (Incidentally, since the military is almost always concerned with other types of targets, they're typically exclusively concerned with blast overpressure, at the exclusion of all other types of effects).

      Compare the exercise retold by Stuart Slade where it only took a small portion of the US arsenal to kill as near as all of the Chineese as it wouldn't matter.

      Now, that that wouldn't happen, even in a large scale exchange is another matter. Nuclear weapons are far too valuable to use for such a purpose (usually), and there are lots of other strategies that would be tried before a counter population strike.

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    28. Re:Not MAD. by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Deploy even a fifth of those 1500 MIRVs against the planet by strategically targeting urban population centres in order of descending population, and the world as we know it would be gone.

      Not all nukes are planet busting hydrogen bombs. It would take at least 5 mid-sized nukes to wipe out New York City. Los Angeles? Probably twice as many.

      Granted, one nuke in the middle of the 1500 largest cities would be VERY devastating... but the world as we know it would not be entirely gone.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    29. Re: Not MAD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL that is some serious shit talking. why is he wrong? please provide us with some information to counter his claims. you calling him a dumb faggot, well makes you look like a dumb faggot ;)

    30. Re:Not MAD. by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      MIRV = Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle. So each of those 1500 MIRVs carries multiple nuclear warheads. Need five mid-sized nukes to wipe out NYC? No problem. Ten for LA? Still no problem. One missile each, just program in your preferred detonation pattern for the warheads:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

      Here's a long-exposure photo of a single "Peacekeeper" missile dropping eight independent warheads (unarmed in this case):

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...

  12. no, dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no, dumbass, that was a layer, not "the password". There are many layers of security.

  13. there's only one choice by Zynder · · Score: 1

    I refuse to settle for the lesser of two evils! Cthulu 2016!

  14. Nobel Prize Winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our Dear Leader restarted Cold War, gave rise to ISIS, invaded yet another sovereign country (Syria), and is now building more nukes. Oh, and built an Orwellian spy network that allows him to leer at every American.

    I don't know who's more stupid, the Europeans who gave this tool a Nobel Peace Prize, or Americans, who voted for him twice, first because they had some guilt towards black folks and second because they're too stupid to realize that the choice isn't limited to George Bush in blackface and some rednecks from the south.

    1. Re:Nobel Prize Winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our Dear Leader restarted Cold War, gave rise to ISIS, invaded yet another sovereign country (Syria), and is now building more nukes.

      ISIL. Gave rise to ISIL. He insists that his baby is bigger than just Syria.

  15. Nukes radiate. Radiation breaks things. by LandGator · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can only replace the tritium so many times before seals fail and injectors break. The fissile material, Pu-239 and U-235, and the tamper material, U-238, although not highly radioactive, do emit alpha particles, which break electronics. Throwing alpha particles at high explosives and detonators also doesn't make them any more stable or effective. Therefore, you either rebuild warheads constantly or find a design which is more immune to embrittlement and other alpha-related damage.

    --
    There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
    1. Re:Nukes radiate. Radiation breaks things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      citation needed

      alpha is high speed ionized helium it won't penetrate thin, foil shielding..... I suspect the explosives and electronics have at least the equivalent of tin foil shielding so I think maybe you're wrong

    2. Re:Nukes radiate. Radiation breaks things. by LandGator · · Score: 1

      Yes, alphas are stopped by foil. Do we know that foil would not gum up the works of a primary nuclear device stage? Sorry, that's TS and Born Secret https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... . Forgot to mention, there's beta from the tritium which only has a 12.32 yr half-life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... .

      --
      There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
    3. Re:Nukes radiate. Radiation breaks things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DOE knows. That's good enough for me.

  16. It is all pork barrel politics by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    Whoever believe proclamation from politicians deserved to be betrayed

    Just because Obama's campaign slogan was "A Nuclear-Free World" doesn't mean he can't lie --- and the "change" he promised us turned out to be the "spared change" we have left in our pockets

    The re-arming of America's nuclear arsenal has everything to do with pork barrel --- as most of the sites related to the re-arming programs are located in the Democrat controlled districts, it is nothing more than typical practice of cronyism - political cronyism

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Political cronyism, sure... Most American rockets weren't built in Alabama because that is where all of the rocket scientists were born, rather because of who chaired which committee, just like the Johnson space center isn't named after Goddard. If the government is going to spend money, politicians are going to represent their electorate

      Since you already went there, what is on the other side of the aisle if Obama was to unilaterally allow our nuclear arsenal age out of usefulness while Russia enters into an aggressive posture, China continues with their Long March series of missile, India/Pakistan/Korea expand their arsenals, etc...

      I'll tell you what, The GOP would be livid about American impotence in the face of threats, leading to a long slide into a second-rate has been... rant fume, etc...

      And they would be right to some degree, with their red faces and spittle flecked chins, and even Obama seems rational enough to realize that you are not going to negotiate with Putin, etc, from a position of weakness

      Russia recently stopped all shipments of processed Uranium from Russia to America for fuel processing, a move that indicates they have no intention of reducing their arsenal. Why would we reduce our arsenal in that situation?

    2. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm going to have to talk a lot about ending wars, ending torture, and getting rid of weapons around the world... then maybe I too could win a Nobel Peace Prize. No, I can't/won't be doing any of those things, but apparently that doesn't matter.

    3. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by LandGator · · Score: 1

      American rockets are frequently (not always) made in 'bama because of Redstone Army Arsenal http://www.usmilitary.com/base... - that's where rocket companies grow up, next to University At Home (University of Alabama at Huntsville).

      --
      There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
    4. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And did you ever wonder why they put Redstone Arsenal in Alabama? Then meet the Senator from Alabama John Sparkman (ret)

      "In 1949, Sparkman was instrumental in convincing the United States Department of the Army to transfer the missile development activities from Fort Bliss, Texas, to Redstone Arsenal. This brought Wernher von Braun and the German Operation Paperclip scientists and engineers to Huntsville, forming the foundation to what eventual became the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center."
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sparkman#Political_career

      Of course it is a long tradition and Senator Richard Shelby is just the latest incarnation
      "Shelby has supported development of the Space Launch System (SLS), but disagreed with how funds for the program have been spent.[because it was not built in Alabama] and favors competition for the strap-on booster design [because it is built in Alabama]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Shelby#Political_views

    5. Re: It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. It is clear now. The only thing that can ensure world piece is Metal Gear.
      If Obama had said that I'd have voted for him.

    6. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just because Obama's campaign slogan was "A Nuclear-Free World" doesn't mean he can't lie

      This isn't evan a lie. The best way to get a nuclear free world is not to simply chuck them in the bin while Russia, China, etc still have them. That's the best way to get your ass handed to you on a plate in 20 years time. And after the ass-handing has happened the world still won't be nuclear free.

      Sure there are countries that have done it, but their just cheap-ass freeloaders, relying on the US, the UK and France spending the money to not do it and thereby indirectly keeping them safe. It's great to say "hey I'm nuclear free" when you're close to two nuclear powers and allied to a third all of which have a good incentive to not let you get invaded. It's still freeloading.

      As for revamping, the stockpile stewardship is and has been for a long time an ongoing process. Assuming a nuclear free world is in abstract a good idea, as I mentioned, simply getting rid of the nukes is not the way to do it. If you've decided you need them, keeping them unmaintained, on obsolete decaying missiles is also not a good idea.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by MrKaos · · Score: 2

      China continues with their Long March series of missile, India/Pakistan/Korea expand their arsenals,

      Perhaps if America stopped selling them Nuclear Reactors because the plutonium has to come from somewhere.

      Russia recently stopped all shipments of processed Uranium from Russia to America for fuel processing, a move that indicates they have no intention of reducing their arsenal. Why would we reduce our arsenal in that situation?

      So instead of dealing with one failing nuclear weapons infrastructure we have to deal with two, actually four - on both sides whilst being manipulated by tewworwists who practice asymmetrical warfare to politicians, press and public struggling to deal with the situation. Great from a MAD world to an INSANE one.

      We will look back at the 90's and say Clinton should have been impeached for not taking a full disarmament treaty with a case of Kentucky's finest to Yeltsin, whilst offering a pen. The greatest missed opportunity.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    8. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by rioki · · Score: 1

      Anybody that though a nuclear free world would happen is just ignoring the reality of the situation. The only reason why nuclear weapons are not used (by Nations) is because they simply can not win a nuclear war if the opponent is also armed with nukes. A properly functioning nuclear deterrent is required to maintain the status quo.

      The only reasonable thing we can do is reduce the stockpile so we can eradicate humanity only once, instead of ten times and ensure that the weapons are safe (when idle). They may be necessary to prevent nuclear extortion, but we don't have to sink more money into it then necessary.

    9. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China continues with their Long March series of missile, India/Pakistan/Korea expand their arsenals,

      Perhaps if America stopped selling them Nuclear Reactors because the plutonium has to come from somewhere.

      That's easy; stop electing Carters and Clintons. Carter negotiated reactor transfers and Clinton signed off on it. N. Korea promised to stop developing weapons, you see. Camp David wasn't Carter's worst fuck up.

    10. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      The only reasonable thing we can do is reduce the stockpile so we can eradicate humanity only once, instead of ten times and ensure that the weapons are safe (when idle). They may be necessary to prevent nuclear extortion, but we don't have to sink more money into it then necessary.

      Unfortunately not. Simply reducing the stockpile isn't enough. A continuous stewardship programme is needed otherwise you'll very soon end up with a workable stockpile of zero, since these things decay over time.

      The "kill the world 10 times over" was always hyperbole though. All you need is enough to reliably destroy enough of an enemy that it's never worth them attacking.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by peragrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually you can win a nuclear war in the modern age. Russia or China Can't nuke the USA but North Korea or ISIS(insert group here) can.

      With Nukes you don't even have to be up close. a single rich man's yacht can literally motor right up the Chesapeake and detonate a bomb capable of wiping out DC without ever touching american soil and thus not subject to any nuclear scans or customs searches. Another yacht can pull up next to NY or under the golden gate bridge and detonate. How many of our major cities are found next to the ocean?

      Think outside the box. Sure if someone were to launch a really big rocket the targeted country could respond. So don't launch a rocket. send something they won't expect. Nukes are Area effect weapons. Like horseshoes getting close counts.

      The columbia island Marina can take up to 50' boats so very few people would question a 50-60' boat parking less than a half mile from the Pentagon. Go a little farther up the potomac and you can get the white house, the capital building and the pentagon in one shot no matter the yield nuke you have.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    12. Re: It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No matter how much money (borrowed from the Chinese, probably) the USA spends on weapons, it still seems inevitable it will get its ass handed on a plate within 20 years time. So why care what's "the best way" to do so?

    13. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3, Informative

      Expect a knock on your door from some friendly US Government employees in 3... 2... 1...

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    14. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Archtech · · Score: 1

      "The GOP would be livid..."

      And that would be worse than a nuclear holocaust.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    15. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Archtech · · Score: 1

      "That's the best way to get your ass handed to you on a plate in 20 years time".

      But surely that makes no sense? If the world worked that way, the USA would already have taken advantage of its own nuclear arsenal to exploit and rape all sorts of smaller weaker countries.

      Oh wait.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    16. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      [A] single rich man's yacht can literally motor right up the Chesapeake and detonate a bomb capable of wiping out DC without ever touching american soil and thus not subject to any nuclear scans or customs searches.

      Sure, customs wouldn't bother scanning the yacht, but that's because the CIA would have intervened before it even got anywhere near the US.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    17. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by necro81 · · Score: 1

      Russia recently stopped all shipments of processed Uranium from Russia to America for fuel processing, a move that indicates they have no intention of reducing their arsenal.

      Do you mean the Megatons to Megawatts Program? It ended of its own accord: the deal from 20+ years back was for 500 tons of enriched uranium, that amount was delivered as planned.

      That the program wasn't extended seems more to be a lack of leadership than hostility. At the time when such an extension could/should have been enacted, when the New Start treaty was signed, the US was on OK terms with Russia. As the article points out, however, the hawks in the Senate stonewalled on ratifying the treaty unless they got their shiny new nuclear complex. They got what they wanted, and undercut the President's ability to negotiate further nuclear deals at the same time.

    18. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      Your plan might be a bit more evil and ingenious if the US (and other countries) also kept all their own nuclear weapons near the seaside too.

      Striking first only works if you also destroy the opposition's ability to respond.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    19. Re: It is all pork barrel politics by FearTheDonut · · Score: 1

      America borrows most of it's money from itself. The USA is the largest purchaser of it's bonds. As i understand it, The Social Security Administration buys T-Bills / T-Notes because of it's safety. We're borrowing from ourselves. For better or worse. Mostly, worse.

    20. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Right and who do you respond too when your capital blows up? You won't be able to investigate the remains. Sunk at the bottom of a river in the middle of a nuclear wasteland.

      So you will be relying on rumors and maybe Facebook for the crooks to reveal themselves.

      Officially everyone will deny deny deny. So you had best be damned sure.

      No one nuke going off in such a way won't set off MAD.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    21. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Wootery · · Score: 1

      Your reasoning seems to rely on an assumption of an omniscient and infallible CIA.

      One would hope they'd have the competence and luck to discover the plot and intervene, of course, but it's a matter of odds.

      When journalists smuggle weapons onto aircraft, one doesn't respond with but the FBI would have caught you beforehand if you were real terrorists.

    22. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a single rich man's yacht can literally motor right up the Chesapeake and detonate a bomb capable of wiping out DC without ever touching american soil and thus not subject to any nuclear scans or customs searches.

      Try again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

    23. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your fallacy is that one bomb does not a "nuclear war" make.

      If you are presuming a fleet of yachts filled with third party nukes, then you are better off in Hollywood as a screenwriter. As always, it's not necessarily the physics or the engineering of the nuclear weapon that's difficult, it's obtaining the special nuclear material. Just how much diverted nuclear material are you envisioning these agents are going to be able to obtain without being noticed?

      Or are you presuming they have state backing, such as the entire output of the Iranian centrifugal enrichment infrastructure? Because, in that case, we aren't going to allow another nuclear power to divert their special nuclear material to a third party proxy to use against us. We are going to transitively assign them blame for us being nuked.

    24. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I assume that a pistol would be much easier to smuggle than a nuclear bomb.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    25. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      I'm not seeing what part of your link refutes the ability to navigate a craft up the Chesapeake without it being searched. Nor do I see anything refuting the ability to do this without making landfall (what was clearly meant by "American soil"... not American sovereign territory)

    26. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Wootery · · Score: 1

      It's an analogy. It demonstrates that intelligence services are not magically always able to always stop bad things in their early stages.

      The only difference is an adjustment of odds, really. I don't know the details of weapons smuggling though: can they detect nuclear material that easily if they don't know where to look?

    27. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by dbitter1 · · Score: 1

      Sure, customs wouldn't bother scanning the yacht, but that's because the CIA would have intervened before it even got anywhere near the US.

      And that works so well for the War On Drugs, I'm sure we'd never let "Illegal" stuff into the country like that...

      --
      For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
    28. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      There is something Carter did that the world as a general rule doesn't know about. During his time he started phasing out land based missiles in favor of submarine based missiles. So most of our arsenal of nuclear weapons is deep in the ocean, pretty much undetectable.

    29. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by DarthVain · · Score: 2

      "Sure if someone were to launch a really big rocket the targeted country could respond."

      This is exactly why countries have 1000's of warheads. The inability to stop anything. Regan tried to implement StarWars program of ballistic defense, but like the movie was mostly fiction on the part of defense contractors skimming money. There are really only 4 ways to do it. The first is ICBM's. Emphasis on ballistic. You are not going to be able to intercept these with anything. On the plus side, making them is literally rocket science, and not easy, this is why not everyone has them. Many countries would like it, and have "space" programs to try and develop. However it is arguably easier to make a nuclear device than it is to make ICBM's. The second, are Those fired from subs, which are usually ICBM's anyway, and the subs are usually nuclear ships as well. Again limited who can build these things. Next there are bombers, however unless they are the stealthy kind, are pretty easy to detect and intercept. However bombers have a range, so you need places to land and refuel or strategic bases around the target country within range. Lastly there are ship fired tomahawks, again, limited usage, and also detectable and interceptable with Navy.

      However you are right, the "poor man's" nuke could involve a rich mans yacht. However a much easier method would be to simply ship the thing in a shipping container with the latest Chinese wing dings. Shield the device perhaps to prevent detection in the off chance it is the one in 1000 that is actually checked. Then have it shipped by truck to some warehouse in the middle of a city someplace. Have it set to detonate when it reaches a certain threshold of GPS coordinates. No yachts required.

      Just realized you probably meant respond with counter attack, rather than respond with attempted interception... whatever I'm posting it anyway... :)

    30. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be honest, he was stating the obvious. They may bother to knock on his door... but pretty much everyone with more than fifty brain cells knows this anyway.

    31. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      if the US (and other countries) also kept all their own nuclear weapons near the seaside too.

      What do you think nuclear subs are for?

    32. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pretty much the whole idea behind 'Metal Gear'. A bipedal tank capable of launching a nuclear warhead from any place on the planet... there would be no rockets, no way to trace back where the missile came from, thus breaking down MAD. While the concept itself is a bit silly (walking tanks? not very feasible imo), they idea behind it of 'stealth' nukes is pretty neat.

    33. Re: It is all pork barrel politics by bwen · · Score: 1

      The Coast Guard and marine police are legally able to board your vessel at any time. Any of these boats with nuclear devices crossing into the US territorial waters would be seen by US radar and most likely intercepted.

    34. Re: It is all pork barrel politics by peragrin · · Score: 2

      The only way to determine what a boat is carrying is by boarding. Long range gieger counter might provide a clue if they are installed and functioning correctly. However just looking from afar won't tell you what boat has what inside.

      I give it a 50% chance of getting through without ever raising an eye brow. This comes from years of practical on the water experience crossing into and out of the USA. Our border can't keep out drugs do you think it can keep out other things?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    35. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why the fuck are there not radiation detectors strung across the potomac?

    36. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The only reason why nuclear weapons are not used (by Nations) is because they simply can not win a nuclear war if the opponent is also armed with nukes. A properly functioning nuclear deterrent is required to maintain the status quo.

      The problem is, current status quo is inherently unstable: radars glitch, people press the wrong button, someone forgets to tell their superiors they received a notice for an upcoming rocket launch. We're still here because we've been very, very, very lucky, and that's going to run out sooner or later.

      We need a non-nuclear deterrent - some way to ensure attacking another country would be sucide, even if the victim possesses no nuclear weapons. EU has been very succesful in doing this in Europe, however as the Ukraine crisis shows the international system as a whole is still too weak to guarantee a common nation's safety. So, civilizing the "society of nations" and ridding it of its endemic violence needs to be our top priority. The alternative to success is extinction.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    37. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by ultranova · · Score: 1

      However a much easier method would be to simply ship the thing in a shipping container with the latest Chinese wing dings. Shield the device perhaps to prevent detection in the off chance it is the one in 1000 that is actually checked. Then have it shipped by truck to some warehouse in the middle of a city someplace. Have it set to detonate when it reaches a certain threshold of GPS coordinates.

      Why bother with GPS or shielding? Just rig the bomb to explode when the container is opened, and give the customs a tip about a drug smuggling operation. Boom, you just took out a major hub of trade, and likely a major city as a bonus.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    38. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This exact scenario has been rehashed in more than one fiction book that I've read.

      By the way, you can think even further outside the box. Rich people don't just have yachts, they also have private planes. How much screening do those go through when they enter US airspace? And how devastating would an air explosion over a populated city be?

    39. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Yes and no.

      At land fills, near where you cross the scales, there are little antennas on either side or both sides of the scales. These look like wifi antennas but actually detect minute amounts of radiation through metal (steel and/or aluminum) trailers. Granted, they are only 10 foot away from the trailers but they can pick up radiation left over on X-ray film, or watches with the glow in the dark radium face buried deep within tones of trash as it passes through the scales. They look something like this but there are all sorts of different types.

      http://www.deqtech.com/Ludlum/...

      You will also find similar types of antennas throughout towns and on some police vehicles. I'm not sure what their range exactly is, but I could imagine them being built into navigation buoys. But I do not think they couldn't be too sensitive in something like that else you would have all sorts of false alarms to read about.

    40. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that the US showed in 2003 that it's dangerous not to have nukes, and the Russians more recently.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    41. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Don't underestimate the ability to figure out where the nuke is from (at least with enough certainty to retaliate). I doubt ISIS can make a bomb, although they could deliver somebody else's. Whoever makes a nuke that is detonated around the US is in real danger. (Not to mention anybody close enough to be mistaken.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    42. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Unstable it may be, but there is nothing better, and therefore the best option we have is to keep it working, and we have been quite successful at that, mind you.

    43. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Oh, and EU "efforts" to make attacking another country to be suicide are pathetic at best. This only works when you are stronger than any possible attacker, which is unfeasible in a world where many factions have nuclear weapons.

    44. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by rioki · · Score: 1

      Because money?

    45. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by rioki · · Score: 1

      The only reason why the "Europe" where successful, if you can say that, is that many nations are part of NATO. NATO has the USA, UK and France who all have nuclear weapons. What "non-nuclear" deterrent do they have again?

      Or do you mean the economic bonds that tie France and Germany together? Even if, Germany and France would never have a Nuclear shootout. Sure Germany would "loose", since they have no nuclear weapons, but all the fallout will neatly come blowing over the border and cleanly deposit itself on northern France..

    46. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Germany and France would never have a Nuclear shootout. Sure Germany would "loose", since they have no nuclear weapons, but all the fallout will neatly come blowing over the border and cleanly deposit itself on northern France.

      No, the prevailing westerlies over Europe would tend to take the fallout over Germany away from France. Also, Germany is reasonably presumed to be a paranuclear state. If they truly felt the need, they should be able to produce nuclear weapons fairly quickly. So, unless the French just nuked them on a whim, they'd have time to prepare a response in kind.

      - T

    47. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by rioki · · Score: 1

      True that the prevailing west winds will reduce the chance of the fallout getting to France. But the Chernobyl disaster showed a rather different pattern; you can not count on it to work out.

    48. Re:It is all pork barrel politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things like this are why I persist in coming here. Thanks.

      - T

  17. Folks need to see 'The Day After' by LandGator · · Score: 4, Informative

    BritVids THREADS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and The War Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... are also adequately cautionary.

    --
    There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
  18. "imperialist Russia" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many military bases did they ever have more than 500 miles outside their borders? How many "empires" ever had the global reach that the one we live under now has? And how many empires have kept Europe from descending into its regular warfare for almost 70 years? That is a record by the way. " Imperialist Russia" is, and always has been, a punk, only slightly less so than Napoleon's "empire".

    1. Re:"imperialist Russia" by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Soviet Union (USSR) included Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belorussia (now Belarus), Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kirgiziya (now Kyrgyzstan), Latvia, Lithuania, Moldavia (now Moldova), Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. Its sphere of influence, the Warsaw Pact nations (the Iron Curtain), included Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungry, Bulgaria, East Germany, Romania, Albania and Yugoslavia.

      The USSR's influence extend well beyond these nations, to North (and now South) Vietnam, North Korea, various Central and Latin American nations.

      This extended Russia's 'borders' greatly.

      Claiming the U.S. was a uniquely global empire from the 50s to the 80s is disingenuous. Even now, I'n not sure we can claim a global empire, whether by design or incompetence being a question for the scholars.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    2. Re:"imperialist Russia" by dexpetkovic · · Score: 2

      Just one small correction - Albania and Yugoslavia were not members of the Warsaw Pact ;)

    3. Re:"imperialist Russia" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In many ways, it isn't even an empire. Not even slightly. Military might (or lack of, considering everything) doesn't really define an empire. And land-mass is still incredibly small.

      Hell, the "British Empire" still has more control, under the new name of the Commonwealth. Probably even more so than the UN does.
      All the UN does is argue like children in a building and create policies nobody can or will live up to.
      Admittedly I don't see the Commonwealth nations collectively trying to take over the world.

    4. Re:"imperialist Russia" by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Russian colonial expansion was normally to move into adjacent areas and annex them. They grabbed a very large area, but since it was legally Russia and contiguous it didn't look anything like British and French colonialism.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  19. chronologies: we haz it by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    The rapid fall of imperialist Russia was helpful

    Imperialist Russia fell 30 years before nuclear weapons were first used, and longer than that before the start of the Cold War. Unless you are referring to the USSR?

    1. Re:chronologies: we haz it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the forcing of neighboring lands into a pact enforced by threat of violence and starvation, isn't imperialist? Oh, you're just trolling again for a derail. You really should get out more.

    2. Re:chronologies: we haz it by magarity · · Score: 1

      The author use small "i' imperialist - yes, the USSR was imperialist Russia in many senses. No, it was not Imperialist Russia..

    3. Re:chronologies: we haz it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Russian Empire of the Romanov's was replaced with the Russian Empire of Stalin and his successors. They may have a slightly different line of succession, but the substance remained.

    4. Re:chronologies: we haz it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The right word for that other one is "Imperial".

    5. Re:chronologies: we haz it by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      yes, the USSR was imperialist Russia in many senses

      No, it was Bolshevik communism, in every sense. No one suffered more under Stalin than Russians. It does make for a nice slight of hand, though, swapping the word "communist" for "Russian". It is what lets politicians in the old Soviet block, who were themselves members of the Communist Party and were enthusiastic participants in the 'Iron Curtain', swap hats and rail against Russians today.

      But even that pales in comparison of the United "we'll bomb 7 countries and launch two major illegal invasions out of four illegal wars in 15 years" States throwing stones at Russia's "imperial" ambitions.

  20. It's now assured destruction. by chromaexcursion · · Score: 2

    Any rogue faction than uses nuclear arms (they may have 1 or 2) against the US can be assured their cause will not survive.
    For the peacenicks, The policy of MAD has been around for 50 years, might be more. No one has died. Perhaps millions have lived. If you don't remember the 60's...
    either you where there ... or most likely you weren't.
    Second problem.
    We've planted our own seeds of need. We can shoot down missiles. The Russians are getting close. The Chinese are working on it.
    The plants aren't for more weapons, just new ones.
    The sometimes more than slightly crazed world governments have managed not to start a nuclear war in the past 60 years. Though I admit they came close at times. Effective deterrents are important.
    The disarm at all costs idiots fail to understand the US can't afford a nuclear war. It would destroy the economy, period. US nuclear weapons are only a second strike weapon. But, for that to work, the second strike has to be decisive, at least in the eyes of an aggressor. But good bet the test needs to be real.

    1. Re:It's now assured destruction. by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

      What your statement doesnt realise is the possibility of a nuke being used, not by a rogue state, but by a terrorist organization. You have to remember that these Islamist Jihadists are very very happy to die in the service of Allah. They WANT it. They will be instantly admitted into Heaven, and they will have a fun filled literal eternity to enjoy their 72 virgins and other fruits of Heaven. They will be heroes and martyrs and will experience an existence far more enjoyable than this comparative hell on earth.

      If they can set a nuke off against their enemies and non-believers, they will in no way shape or form have any fear of dying from the response, they will look forward to it. They desire to die in the name of God far more than they desire to live.

      These people truly believe this, deep in their hearts.

      This changes everything. The normal rules of war do not apply to those who really really want to die for their God. The rewards are far in excess to any pain and suffering they may experience on Earth.

      Keep it classy, Religion.

    2. Re:It's now assured destruction. by fredprado · · Score: 1

      In this case it should be and most likely will be treated with other means than a massive second strike, because there isn't even a target for it. This threat must be dealt in different ways. The second strike capabilities are the deterrence against nuclear powers, not against sole bombs that terrorist groups may be able to procure somehow, and the need for this deterrence will keep existing regardless of the presence or absence of terrorists.

  21. What do you appreciate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As a former Cold Warrior (both launch officer side and staff analytical mathematician side), I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car.

    You mean a self-serving reaction that only shows a short-sighted consideration of attitudes, rather than appreciating the value of industrial development and economic exchange over keeping Japan and Germany in some kind of economic fiefdom as the USSR attempted to do?

    I'm glad that the countries of Germany and Japan produce cars and other products worth buying, I'm even somewhat glad China is doing the same. I'm a bit chagrined at the pollution and labor exploitation issues, but even that can be addressed with a bit of patience and prudence.

    We just need the A-team on the case. Unfortunately, too many of the smart guys are seeing their own immediate profit and finding ways to game the system as opposed to ways to win the game.

    1. Re:What do you appreciate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not that far off - a lot of people like to say that MAD kept the relative peace since 1946. I like to say that the combination of MAD and free trade kept the peace - you don't shoot at people that willingly enter into mutually beneficial business relationships.

  22. Did it ever stop? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, I don't think the US has never stopped making sure it has the latest and greatest possible nuclear threat in the world. It's certainly been the #1 priority all these years, when it comes to tax dollars spent. Forget health care. Just not as important. Sorry. But it's the truth [in washington].

  23. You sound awfully concerned about by Rujiel · · Score: 1

    the fact that we are capable of destroying the world a lesser numbet of times over due to decaying warheads, yet you seem unconcerned at all by the danger of being so armed. But regardless, you don't seem to see what an enormous waste of money this is, spent on toys that will nullify the very meaning of money if used.

    1. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We were never able to destroy the world several times over...

      Over 1,000 nuclear weapons have been detonated on Earth in the past 50+ years...

      We're all still here...

      It would take more than we've got to kill everyone, much less do any real lasting harm to the planet...

    2. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by brainboyz · · Score: 1

      Just the US and Russia have almost 16k warheads between them. Your sense of "real lasting harm" is skewed severely if you believe the fallout from all of those being launched won't significantly alter the biological capability of the Earth. Sure, most of them will be targeted at specific sites instead of spreading out equally, but it will still cause horrific damage and may trigger enough atmospheric dust to kill most life on Earth.

    3. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

      We were never able to destroy the world several times over...

      Over 1,000 nuclear weapons have been detonated on Earth in the past 50+ years...

      We're all still here...

      It would take more than we've got to kill everyone, much less do any real lasting harm to the planet...

      Those "1000 nuclear weapons" were not all detonated at once on top of populated major cities and military bases.

      Try that and see how many die and how the planet responds.

    4. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      So did the 6 mile rock that killed the dinosaurs... Earth survived that, 16k nuclear weapons (most of which are tactical, not strategic), won't do as much.

    5. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      No, they weren't...

      I'm also not under the mistaken impression that the survival of Earth requires that every last human live...

      90% of our species might be wiped out, but I doubt we'd go extinct...

      It would set us back, to be sure... In a million years (a small time period to Earth), the planet wouldn't never notice...

      The comment was in regard to "destroy the world many times over".

      Yea, we can't do that.

    6. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just the US and Russia have almost 16k warheads between them. Your sense of "real lasting harm" is skewed severely if you believe the fallout from all of those being launched won't significantly alter the biological capability of the Earth. Sure, most of them will be targeted at specific sites instead of spreading out equally, but it will still cause horrific damage and may trigger enough atmospheric dust to kill most life on Earth.

      The dust will help with global warming, and all the cities and people that are destroyed will help the natural environment.

    7. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by Ghaoth · · Score: 1

      Yes, but all 1000 were not detonated within minutes of each other on heavily populated areas. Are you not MAD?

      --
      Nos Morituri te salutamus
    8. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      their powerful weapons, but not THAT powerful. We might be able to extinguish almost all life on the planet, yet the planet itself will still be here. We have yet to develop real "planet busters", and hopefully never will.

    9. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by necro81 · · Score: 1

      Over 1,000 nuclear weapons have been detonated on Earth in the past 50+ years

      And about half of those were detonated underground, after the 1963 Test Ban Treaty. The ban on atmospheric testing was put into place once people realized that irradiating their own planet and dispersing toxic metals was a bad idea.

    10. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      90% of our species might be wiped out, but I doubt we'd go extinct...

      Oh, well that's all right then.

      I bet The Road is your idea of a wet dream.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it's matter of making or keeping more warheads, but probably more a matter of "better"; more quickly deployed, better tracking, etc. I'm sure they'd be upgrading the delivery systems.
      Nukes aren't going away, ever. No putting the genie back in the bottle. Reality is not pretty. MAD is crazy, but not as crazy as leaving yourself defenseless with no way to retaliate; unless you sincerely believe no country would fire on a weakened US; that Putin has no designs on expanding Russia or returning to the USSR glory days..... and I think there's plenty of evidence that he is. He's even made suggestive nuclear threats lately.
      On the bright side, nuclear winter would stave off global warming. :-)

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    12. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by zlives · · Score: 1

      "but I doubt we'd go extinct"
      the fuck you say man, we need to get working on that right away

    13. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      If you did that, you'd probably kill a billion people...

      Perhaps 3 or 4 billion if you do it just right...

      But that won't "destroy the world several times over"...

      Or did you miss what I replied to?

      Life would go on. It wouldn't go on for all of us, it would change in many ways, but go on it would...

    14. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Never heard of "The Road", is that a book?

      Anyway, I was replying to the comment about the "world being destroyed several times over".

      My point, that everyone seems to be missing, is that we don't have that ability. Even if we simply wanted to kill every human on Earth, that would be quite hard to do, even with nuclear weapons. They are powerful, but not quite that powerful and Earth is quite large by comparison.

      And we sure couldn't end all life on Earth, not even close...

    15. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by Rujiel · · Score: 1

      1000 nukes detonated? Please give me some examples of any of the US' warheads being detonated in the last two decades--I really doubt that "over 1000" number. It also goes without saying that nukes in recent times make nukes from WWII look like blips. Good for you, though, being so rosy on nuclear warfare and all.

    16. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      You my friend, are another person making comments based on some vague assumptions without actually knowing the history of nuclear weapons.

      That doesn't make you bad, after all, most people do it at some time or another, and many people do it all the time! :)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...

      Worth reading to really understand the history...

      1,054 nuclear weapons have been tested by the United States alone, these include 904 within the USA itself, 106 in the Pacific, and a few elsewhere.

      The Soviet Union set off 715, the UK 45, France 210, China 45, etc...

      More than 2,000 total have been detonated over the years.

      A worthwhile quote: "From the first nuclear test in 1945 until tests by Pakistan in 1998, there was never a period of more than 22 months with no nuclear testing. June 1998 to October 2006 was the longest period since 1945 with no acknowledged nuclear tests."

      The highest year was 1961, with about 140 being tested... 1959 actually had none, a weird year...

      The largest weapon tested by the US was Castle Bravo, which went for 3 times the expected yield and was a mess.

      Tsar Bomba was the largest ever test at 57 megatons, but was actually one of the cleanest weapons ever set off due to missing the booster jacket.

      -

      Your idea of "nukes from WWII look like blips also misses the point. Castle Bravo was 15 megatons and was set off in 1954, less than 10 years after WWII

      Nuclear anything has been turned into "oh noes, the nuclears!" by the media and the public has become terrified by anything with the word nuclear in it, without actually understanding anything.

      Nuclear weapons are indeed powerful and can indeed destroy a city. But the truth is, our cities cover a very, very small percentage of the Earth. You could destroy every one and life would go on.

      Would that be horrible? Yes, from the point of view of most humans, but if you take the long view, meh, it is minor in the grand scheme of things.

      The trick is to get out of your own self importance and see the world for what it really is, without you in the center of it.

    17. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We had enough missiles to nuke every city on the planet several times over.

      In the colloquial sense of "ending all extant civilization in one action" that qualifies as "destroy the world".

      It is not however enough to satisfy any of the more rigorous definitions such as: "cause the extinction of humanity", "liquify/glass the entire land mass of Earth", or "Overpower the gravitational binding power of Earth thereby destroying the planet".

    18. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by Rujiel · · Score: 1
      I asked for examples in the US over the last two decades, which you did not provide (because there are none). The last test known in the US was over 20 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      Would that be horrible? Yes, from the point of view of most humans, but if you take the long view, meh

      Guess that's the fundamental difference here--I'm bothered by the notion of nuclear holocaust, and you're not. This sole line explained your entire argument supporting nukes. Getting nuked to death might be ok for you, but I'm not down, so why should you assume it's good enough for everyone else? That's self-importance in a nutshell.

    19. Re:You sound awfully concerned about by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Guess that's the fundamental difference here

      No, it isn't...

      The difference is, we can't destroy the world... only humans... and only most of them, I don't think we could kill everyone if we really tried... not yet anyway :)

  24. ah yes, rational... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the game theory rational, same as the economics rational, in essence the rationality of sociopaths...

  25. The people who own us by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    will never allow us to blow each other up. The Soviet Union/Russia was not and is not a threat. This is Wargarble that serves one of 3 purposes: to keep the economy going with the military industrial complex (since real socialism is a pill Americans can't swallow), an excuse for ever lowering standards of living or just plain 'ole war profiteering.

    I remember a few years ago a bunch of Pakistani terrorists hit a major building in India. There was strong evidence the Pakistani gov't was aware of the impending attack and said nothing. I was all set for WWIII and then... nothing. Not so much as a wimper.

    See, dropping bombs on people that can't fight back from $2 million dollar drones is profitable. Real, large scale total war isn't.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  26. What's old is new... by kjs3 · · Score: 1

    We have an ex-KGB Cold War nostalgist on the other side of the table. Is it suprising that we're reacting with "what the fuck do we do with an ex-kgb douche jerking off over the cold war to stop being a global fuckwit?"?

  27. There are other reasons to make fissile material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kinda need plutonium for RTGs or we're not going to be able to explore past Martian orbit.

  28. Nuclear oopsies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The hair-width escapes from catastrophe on multiple occasions is staggering. But the really crazy thing is that pakistani military is infested with islamic crazies who would be more than happy to set off a nuke for allah. and the financial resources of groups like ISIS are enough to possibly get someone to sell them a nuke. I dont think nuclear weapons are at all deterrents to suicidal maniacs but they do keep the nation state powers funding their non proliferation programmes. pakistan as a state knows that even if its higher ranks to some degree would love to sell or supply or launch a nuclear attack, the more sane people in the structure know that there would be a swift and immediate response. even if not with nukes, it would be a savage campaign of destruction

    1. Re:Nuclear oopsies by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Nobody wants to sell a group like ISIS a nuke, because it could just as easily be used on the seller.

      Should ISIS ever be accepted as an actual government, they will be seen as a pariah who will make North Korea, Myanmar, and Iran look like a good cooperative players on the world stage.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  29. MAD to rely on these things by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    If a rational person wouldn't use nukes due to Mutually Assured Destruction, what is to stop another rational person who has nukes from simply taking whatever he wants and if you try to stop me it's nuke time? After all, rationally speaking the worst result possible is turning your country into a glass parking lot. So, if you want your ownership of nukes to defend you against other things, such as bombing with conventional weapons or invasion, then you need to be willing to be the first to use nukes. But if that's allowed, nukes go from being an expensive defense against getting nuked to an invaluable general defensive weapon, and everyone will want one. This is something people should think about when they say that nukes prevent WWIII -- this requires the various nations to be willing to launch the first nuke.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:MAD to rely on these things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was the essence of the Cuban missile crisis. Kennedy had to convince the Russians he was willing to strike first in order to get them to back down.

  30. Japanese Cars versus rearmament by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a former Cold Warrior (both launch officer side and staff analytical mathematician side), I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car.

    Grumbling at a Japanese car because "We beat the Japs, now you won't buy American cars!" isn't quite the same as "I manned a US nuclear silo during the Cold War, and now the USA is refreshing the nuclear weapons stockpile". Maybe "we beat the Ruskies, and now you order brides via mail from Russia!" or "I manned a US Flying Fortress during WWII and now the USA is refreshing the Air Force with new bombers" might be closer to the two expressed sentiments. One is "I've been trained to hate a particular enemy", the other is "War. War never changes."

    1. Re:Japanese Cars versus rearmament by neurovish · · Score: 1

      As a former Cold Warrior (both launch officer side and staff analytical mathematician side), I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car.

      Grumbling at a Japanese car because "We beat the Japs, now you won't buy American cars!" isn't quite the same as "I manned a US nuclear silo during the Cold War, and now the USA is refreshing the nuclear weapons stockpile". Maybe "we beat the Ruskies, and now you order brides via mail from Russia!" or "I manned a US Flying Fortress during WWII and now the USA is refreshing the Air Force with new bombers" might be closer to the two expressed sentiments. One is "I've been trained to hate a particular enemy", the other is "War. War never changes."

      I read the whole summary trying to find why the author appreciates the bitterness of the former WW2 warriors. I kept expecting to see that the US was contracting with Russians or buying all Russian gear to maintain/refresh the stockpile, but nothing. I am still wondering why that is. It's not like he was *fighting* the nuclear weapons or that the Cold Warriors were working day and night to get rid of the US stockpile. This is going to keep me up at night.

    2. Re:Japanese Cars versus rearmament by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love my Japanese car. It's the only car for less than $100,000 that competes with the exotic sports cars. And it starts at $35,000.

      Of course Americas vehicle laws are mostly about stopping awesome sports cars from being imported that embarrass American Muscle. Back in 2006 when a Ford Mustang V8 made 300hp-300ft/lbs Mitsubishi was selling a 2.0 liter 4cylinder making 400 horsepower and 400ft/lbs of torque while matching the 19city/25highway fuel economy and providing four wheel drive yet using lots of Aluminum to get the weight below a 2 wheel drive Mustang.

      Then within 1 year of that car coming out, America quickly changed crash laws such that the car was not allowed to be sold anymore as an 07 model. Then they said emissions-wise that only the 300hp model would be allowed to come to America.

      We also use these laws to kill fun cars like the Lotus Evora which doesn't need 100 airbags because it's a lightweight track car and everyone knows airbags in track cars are unsafe and usually removed.

      Same laws prevented the R34 GT-R and earlier cars from coming to America. When obviously the young generation cares more about AWD turbo than a big V8 that has yet to reach 100hp per liter, this is competition not safety. Otherwise I'd shop cars based on crash scores and get what I want.

      All I hear is how amazing the new Corvette is here in America, but honestly I'm more impressed by cars like this http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/evolution/

      * Bespoke engine ECU re-map developing 440bhp at 6,800rpm and 412 lb.ft at 3,100rpm. This

      This 2.0 liter four cylinder is basically doing everything that the new Corvette does while handling better, with four doors, more Aluminum, 2 electronic rally-spec differentials and a front limited slip helical differential. It drives in the rain, the snow, gravel, dirt, and still competes when the Corvette is spinning it's wheels looking for traction.

      With just a turbo swap 500 horsepower and beyond is right there and larger turbochargers increase fuel economy well into the 30's since it never spools during regular driving. Problem is America only gets the 300hp version (same engine though) because our emissions laws are there to allow huge V8's like the Corvette but a turbo 4 with the same power can't be sold here (even though it's cleaner, the rules go by parts per engine size which allows dirty V8's but 4 cylinders have to be super clean)

      It's all to boost our shitty Automakers who are already recalling all their new fancy vehicles including the Corvette.

    3. Re:Japanese Cars versus rearmament by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      No duh. I was quoting a standard racist vet from WWII.

    4. Re: Japanese Cars versus rearmament by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most likely that soldier has had friends, platoon mates, and even family killed by Japanese soldiers. so he only sees one side of it. war is hell and can do major damage to the human brain(see PTSD).

  31. joshua by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.

  32. chest thumping... planet of the apes by felixrising · · Score: 2

    The world has gone insane!!! Why would anyone threaten or rationally consider using nuclear weapons against any country all over the political leanings and chest thumping of the leadership of some other country?! It's insanity.

  33. Deterring Putin by mi · · Score: 0

    Are we secure from the Putins though? He seems to have fun with the idea his nukes let him do whatever he wants.

    Putin's doctrine is that Russia ought to "protect" both ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking people of any ethnicity anywhere in the world. That you don't see "polite" gunmen organizing a referendum in Brighton Beach is a sign, our force does deter Putin still.

    I'm very glad, America is rearming itself, because Russia spent the past 20 years nourishing a buttheart like no one had ever had before. They lost the Cold War and they want a revanche. With a Nobel Peace Price dimwit in the White House, and a bona-fide lunatic providing foreign-policy expertise, this is Russia's hour...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  34. Long lead time by dbIII · · Score: 1

    There's a long lead time with these things and effort needs to be maintained, so sorry guys, you can't just blame one person or one party for this. Instead it's the hawkish culture driven hard by the sort of people Eisenhower warned us about, the sort of people that view the rise of Putin with joy and the sort of people that are not ashamed with stuffing the wallets of elected officials.

  35. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by brainboyz · · Score: 1

    Because some world and group leaders aren't sane. The only thing holding many of them back is the fact that other players are holding a much bigger hammer.

  36. MR PREZIDENTT, WE ISZ LOVE ZE BOMB... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Perhaps it Might Be Better, Mr. President, if You Were More Concerned With the American People Than With Your Image in the History Books."

  37. That was a political requirement and subverted by dbIII · · Score: 1

    That was a political requirement imposed that clashed with the requirement of the person on the spot being able to do the task they were trained and employed for. Thus to tick the box and not get in the way the password was set to all zeros. If you or I got into the right building with the "password" we wouldn't have had a clue how to launch missiles, we'd just have a number but wouldn't know the procedure to use it.
    The "password" just created the illusion that civilians were in charge of operational military matters. It was set to all zeros so that they were not, so that an order to start a war would be a "one step" thing from a civilian authority and not micromanaging.
    Besides, who would you trust more with final launch authority, a group of military personal prepared to shoot anyone that wasn't going by the book in an operation that required several people or the likes of Dan Quale, Spiro Agnew, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton?

  38. Meet the new boss... by zawarski · · Score: 0

    ...same as the old boss.

  39. No reason to be surprised by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    Our current president will be remembered at the most conservative president to date in American history. So far the president who his playbook of actual actions has most closely resembled has been Reagan. Being as Reagan got us through the cold war by convincing the Russians that the Star Wars Missile Defense was real, we should expect a similar moonshot approach from Obama when he seeks to cement his own legacy.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  40. Wrong Nuclear Technology... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    The US should be revamping Nuclear reactors for power instead of nuclear weapons. But hey, the stupidity of NIMBY and keeping Yucca Mountain closed continues... Of course, Yucca Mountain funding was cut under President Obama's watch as well.

    I get that the Nuclear arsenal needs to be replaced as, like most things, age degrades both the weapons and the systems. Technology moves forward and old parts can no longer be manufactured and old systems no longer interface with current technology. Plus, I'm sure that targeting systems and other electronics have drastically improved.

    Like others have commented, I agree that it would be good to continue to see a reduction and an eventual elimination of nuclear arms. However, this isn't going to happen in our lifetimes, so the more practical move is to decommission the old weapons and replace them with more reliable versions. Maybe along the way we see how much is being spent and rethink about whether it's worth the cost.

    1. Re:Wrong Nuclear Technology... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yucca mountain absolutely should stay closed for the time being.
      Far better to burn up most of the 'waste' as fuel, then to simply bury it.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  41. Putin's ambitions... by andydread · · Score: 1

    were not considered also. We have Putin threating nuclear war over Ukraine and pulling out of a treaty that Medvedev signed and ramping up production of nuclear weapons. So it makes sense in this day and age unfortunately.

  42. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by dasunt · · Score: 1

    The world has gone insane!!! Why would anyone threaten or rationally consider using nuclear weapons against any country all over the political leanings and chest thumping of the leadership of some other country?! It's insanity.

    Because threatening a nuclear war raises the cost of the war.

    Take Ukraine currently. Russia's slowly nibbling away at its territory. If Ukraine was a nuclear power, it could very well raise that as a deterrent and perhaps Russia would decide the increased cost of destabilizing Ukraine wasn't worth it. On the other hand, Russia is a nuclear power, which raises the cost to anyone who wants to interfere with Russia's expansion.

    Is it ideal? No. But a nuclear threat does give a nation bargaining power.

    Another example would be Pakistan/India. Both nuclear powers, both with a history of pointless border conflict (they hold the record for the highest battleground - they've actual fought over a mountain glacier that was so inhospitable that only a tiny fraction of the casualties were due to combat and not the environment). Being nuclear powers, even the pointless border wars have a strong incentive not to spiral out of control, because if vast amounts of territory were lost, the nuclear option would be considered.

    Is this insane? To a degree, yes. Has it worked so far? To a degree, yes. Hopefully someone doesn't screw things up.

  43. Nobel peace prize by andy_spoo · · Score: 1

    He got a nobel peace prize for what exactly? Sure presidents start with good intentions, but then find out the whole political system constraints them to a well defined path.

    1. Re:Nobel peace prize by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Nobel peace prizes say absolutely nothing about the people who got them except for the fact that it was politically profitable at the time to give it to them.

    2. Re:Nobel peace prize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He got a nobel peace prize for what exactly?

      For not being G W Bush if I remember correctly. But yeah, embarassing hey? I guess the Nobel Committee will be returning to the tradition of awarding the prizes after people have accomplished something rather than in anticipation. Funny how these quaint traditions often hide some long forgotten rationale.

  44. The sad history of US nuclear weapons. by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's amazing how bad many nuclear weapons were, and perhaps are. The Hiroshima gun bomb wasn't much better than an IED. If the Enola Gay had crashed, it probably would have gone off. (The crew was under orders not to land with the bomb; if they had to return to base, they were to dump it in deep water.)

    For a while after WWII, the US didn't actually have any functional nuclear weapons. This was a major secret at the time. The war designs weren't suited for long-term storage. Nobody wanted another gun bomb, and the first generation electronics for triggering implosion didn't store well. A "GI-proof" line of bombs had to be developed.

    The first round of Polaris missile warhead wouldn't have worked. This was learned only after there were SSBNs at sea with functional missiles and dud warheads. That took over a year to fix.

    In recent years, there was a period for over a decade when the US had lost the ability to make new fusion bombs. The plant to make some obscure material had been shut down, and the proposed, cheaper replacement didn't work.

    There was a tritium shortage for years. The old tritium production reactors were shut down years ago, and no replacement was built. The US is now producing tritium using a TVA power reactor loaded with some special fuel rods. Commercial use of tritium (exit signs and such) is way down from previous decades. (Tritium has a half-life of around 11 years, so tritium light sources do run down.)

    The US was the last country with a gaseous-diffusion enrichment plant. The huge WWII-vintage plant at Oak Ridge was finally dismantled a few years ago. There's a centrifuge plant in the US, privately run by URENCO, a European company.

    The US had a huge buildup of nuclear capability in the 1950s, and most of the plants date from that era. They're worn out and obsolete.

    And that's the stuff we know about. Being a nuclear superpower isn't cheap.

    1. Re:The sad history of US nuclear weapons. by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      The myth about the U.S. not having any nuclear weapons after WWII is blown a bit out of proportion, from what records have been released it is true we were out when Fat Man detonated on Aug. 9th 1945, however the best estimates say we had 4 more by September, and around a dozen by the end of the year. This was not so much a matter of being out, but of rushing the first ones off the assembly lines into service right away.

    2. Re:The sad history of US nuclear weapons. by Animats · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about a slightly later period. The third plutonium implosion bomb (Trinity was #1, Nagasaki was #2) was ready to go before the end of the war. Groves decided not to ship it to Tinian. Production rate was about one every 3 weeks.

      But that design wasn't suitable for long-term storage. Wikipedia: "The lead-acid batteries that powered the fuzing system remained charged for only 36 hours, after which they needed to be recharged. To do this meant disassembling the bomb, and recharging took 72 hours. The batteries had to be removed in any case after nine days or they corroded. The plutonium core could not be left in for much longer, because its heat damaged the high explosives. Replacing the core also required the bomb to be completely disassembled and reassembled. This required about 40 to 50 men and took between 56 and 72 hours, depending on the skill of the bomb assembly team." It took a few more years to develop a bomb that was suitable for routine storage at an air base.

  45. MAD is still the best alternative by fredprado · · Score: 0

    Yes, mutually assured destruction has its shortcomings and limitations, but it is still the only possible way to prevent nuclear wars in a world where this technology has been developed. Any other idea of equilibrium based on good will and niceness is even more far fetched and delusional than the idea of a permanent MAD equilibrium.

  46. US is making the same mistake... by grfrkr · · Score: 1

    ... that Russia (at that time, USSR) made in 1980ies. The result is predictable.

    1. Re:US is making the same mistake... by mi · · Score: 1

      USSR's mistake — the one undercutting everything else they were doing — was trying to maintain 1st World military with the 3rd World economy (that is, Socialist economy sucks).

      Though one could argue, the US — with its growing taxes and regulations — is sliding down towards Socialism too, I doubt, that is, what you had in mind. Could you explain yourself better?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    2. Re:US is making the same mistake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US taxes are near historic lows.
      http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3151

      Funding for enforcement of LAW (regulations are LAW) are also being cut.
      IRS, EPA, FDA.. Funding for actual law enforcement and investigation is being cut year after year.
      http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/budget/report/2013/01/29/50945/budget-cuts-set-funding-path-to-historic-lows/

      Nice try though.
      Also, Socialism.. What a joke. PLEASE..

      'Outsourced' Prisons, tax payer $$ for private religious or for-profit schools, 'Outsourced' NSA surveillance (snowden ), 'Outsourced' security details of fucking Generals and other military.. For fucks sake, we don't even use government employees to protect out top military brass in a dam war zone.. We use private for profit contractors!! And you say Socialism??
      No direct government road crews, the FED is a PRIVATE entity. Any useful research done at PUBLIC schools? Weapons, drugs, communications??? Give it to private for-profit industry's that give huge $$ to politicians and then buy it back with tax payer $$.

      The US has been running away from any form of socialism for the last few decades and now it is run by and for trans national corporatist.
      Notice I did not say capitalists. For there to be thriving capitalism there needs to be a free and fair market, this means LAW.. And Enforcement of that LAW.
      When you can run a scam for billions and you fat wife gets to keep millions (Enron), when you murder people and get payed taxpayer millions for it (black water) when you can starve people to death and get tax payer money for it (private prisons), and when the people who makes these decisions and choose these 'contractors' gets millions in kickbacks we call 'campaign finance' (every politician, ever) , when you can commit fraud, theft, and grand larceny on a scale never even conceived before and tax payers bail you out (wall street crash).. AND GET AWAY WITH IT..

      Socialism is not even CLOSE to happening..

  47. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

    If Ukraine was a nuclear power, Ukraine would have sold all the nukes years ago just as they have sold 90% of their normal military hardware. Who knows where they would have landed.

    Besides, as silly as the current Ukrainian government is (their minister of defence has actually recently claimed that Russia nuked Ukrainian forces in Donetsk), even they would use them in the current conflict.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  48. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dad is correct, a minimum amount of insanity is required in order to *desire* to be a world leader as whom, but a madman, would envision himself as such?

    World leader can also be exchanged with president/pm/taoiseach/king/etc...

  49. f-ing hypocrits... by SuperDre · · Score: 1

    Telling other countries they cannot have nuclear weapons, but keep on building themselves.. what a bunch of f-ing hypocrits....

    I don't like North korea or Iran having nuclear weapons, but if the US has them and keeps on making them, then I won't blame those countries for trying to create some themselves..

    If the US is really serious about other countries not having nuclear weapons, then they should stop making them themselves and ditch the ones they have.. otherwise it's just a bunch of crap..

    1. Re:f-ing hypocrits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what a bunch of f-ing hypocrits

      It is war, not a game of candyland. There is no mommy to whom you can run crying. This criticism is invalid.

      You can say, "I would rather be conquered than dead." You can say, "This strategy isn't even that militarily useful." You can say "There are similar strategies, of almost but not quite building weapons, that have about the same military value while allowing other countries to save face. This strategy is the pointlessly-insulting work of someone arrogant and immature." I don't know if those things are true, but you can say them.

      They're all different from, "It's not fair!" Of course it's not fucking fair. Get serious, man. It's not a game show, and even game shows aren't fair.

  50. Re:truth is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are being had by the biggest pysop hoax scam in history.

    Apart from the global warming hoax that is ... or the moon landing ... or ...

  51. What comes after "Nuclear"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine usa developing weapons of mass destruction, that aren't based on a fission and fusion process, but that work the same and being equally powerful.

    Then what?

    Promises of a "nuclear free world" would then be a cruel joke.

  52. Odd, the article doesnt mention anything in KS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh... you mean the facility in Kansas City MISSOURI.

  53. They dont plan on using them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing more than welfare for aerospace companies.

  54. Here's a thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If government eventually does manage to destroy human civilization, through nuclear war or some other horrific initiation of force, would that finally put the claim of "government for the people, by the people" to rest? Or would the innocent victims of such a horrific scenario go down chanting "it's our own fault"?

    If the latter, then I propose that the destruction of human civilization is inevitable. Without an end to coercive authority (at some point during the evolution of our species), the road to hell will be wide open for business.

  55. Fall of imperialist America would be helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America is the only nation on earth with military bases in hundreds of countries, and the last lunatic imperialist regime on earth that routinely attacks other countries, in its own imperial interests. Obama has been a great disappointment. Many of us thought that his foreign policy would be a change from the terror and tyranny of the Bush era, but it has continued down the same path of American exceptionalism, terrorism, and torture.

    1. Re:Fall of imperialist America would be helpful by halivar · · Score: 1

      There aren't even hundreds of countries on earth. There are 195. That's a nickel short of "hundreds".

      and the last lunatic imperialist regime on earth that routinely attacks other countries, in its own imperial interests

      You need to pick up a newspaper some time. They contain information vital to making you not look like an idiot.

  56. re: "Therapidfall of imperialist Russia" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be referring to the February revolution of 1917 that deposed the Tsar, right? The term 'imperialist russia' refers to the empire ruled by royal dynasties of Tsars. I'm sure that must be what you meant.

  57. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally haven't seen such a message originating from their defense minister.

    There has however, been some discussion about separatists sporting shiny new 240 mm heavy mortars, which pack a very large punch even with conventional high explosive warheads, and which *can be used* with tactical nuclear warheads.

  58. One SSBN != end of teh Earth by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    Want to know WHY we have so damn many warheads ?

    The weapon folks try to figure out what the target defenses are capable of before the warheads reach their target, the really smart people start crunching numbers and come up with a solution designed to over-saturate their ( known ) defenses. We don't throw one warhead at a target, we throw several to ensure one gets through.

    This snowballs as delivery systems get smarter or bigger ( supersonic+ cruise missiles, smart re-entry steering and evasion, multi-mirv's, remember the MX-Peacekeeper platform ? lol ) and as countermeasures do the same. ( Hypersonic projectiles, high energy zero time of flight systems, etc )

    Same thing for conventional weapons ( especially cruise missiles ) for both land and sea targets.

    Ship of X class has defenses Y. In order to ensure a kill on target, we need Z birds from multiple directions all with similar time on top capability to overwhelm said defenses and destroy target. If you compensate for additional platforms in the vicinity that may be protecting each other, ( Eg: A battle group ) you may have to throw a ridiculous amount of ordinance at your target ( say . . . the carrier ) in the hope it gets through at all.

    Ditto for land targets. We never use one cruise missile on a building folks. . . . . we use a half a dozen or more lol

    TBH though, our land based delivery systems are pretty much honeypot targets anymore. Bomber, sub and cruise missile delivery are much harder to target due to their mobility and not knowing if a sub is sitting just off your coast in the event you do something stupid is quite a deterrent in its own right.

    However, put one of these weapons in the hands of a fanatic who has no issues about beheading folks, or volunteering to become a suicide bomber to kill infidels in the name of some pretend deity in the sky and all the deterrent in the world isn't going to stop them. Deterrent doesn't work with these types. You have to render them inoperable for lack of a better way to phrase it.

    They know it and we know it. If they ever DO get one, it had better be the most closely guarded secret of all time or we'll end up leveling entire regions to ensure it never gets deployed.

    1. Re:One SSBN != end of teh Earth by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Want to know WHY we have so damn many warheads?

      Presuming you're talking about nuclear warheads (the topic of the discussion)... Back in the 50's and 60's it was mostly determined by how many weapons we could produce - the unholy alliance between SAC and the nuclear weapons production labs was the "military-inductrial alliance" Eisenhower was warning us against. From the 70's onward it was determined by a complex interaction of internal (US) politics and treaty negotiations.
       

      The weapon folks try to figure out what the target defenses are capable of before the warheads reach their target, the really smart people start crunching numbers and come up with a solution designed to over-saturate their ( known ) defenses. We don't throw one warhead at a target, we throw several to ensure one gets through.

      Um... nonsense. (The fact that there isn't effective defenses against most classes of nuclear weapons aside.) We throw (threw, since we're talking before the reductions of the 1990's) several at what appears to be a single target to the ignorant and the uninitiated to justify the massive number of warheads. To the way of thinking of the military planners - that HQ is a target, and the airfield is a target, and that hangar complex is a target... so even if a single warhead would get all three in actuality, they sent three anyhow.
       
      As far as conventional weapons... you're partly right, partly wrong, and partly hallucinating. But I'm not going there as conventional weapons aren't the topic of discussion.
       

      TBH though, our land based delivery systems are pretty much honeypot targets anymore. Bomber, sub and cruise missile delivery are much harder to target due to their mobility and not knowing if a sub is sitting just off your coast in the event you do something stupid is quite a deterrent in its own right.

      Since bombers are landbased delivery systems... you really haven't thought this through very well. Nor do we have sub launched nuclear tipped cruise missiles. We do have submarine launched ballistic missiles, but they stay well the hell back out in the deeps where it's safe... and don't go anywhere near coastlines except for liberty ports and home ports.
       

      However, put one of these weapons in the hands of a fanatic who has no issues about beheading folks, or volunteering to become a suicide bomber to kill infidels in the name of some pretend deity in the sky and all the deterrent in the world isn't going to stop them. Deterrent doesn't work with these types. You have to render them inoperable for lack of a better way to phrase it.

      Thank you Captain Obvious.

  59. Things Change with intelligence by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    FreedomFirst, for having worked where you have, then you know that nukes are expensive and we really do NOT want to do this.
    O tried to get Russia AND China to work on verifying and lowering the warhead counts. China refuses to participate.

    However, if another nations top leaders believes that a nuke war IS winnable, and is building new warheads underground, along with creating a massive shelter, such as 3000 miles of underground tunnels, then by cutting our number down, it invites first strike.
    And if you ran the numbers, then you know the ONLY way to stop such leaders, is to prevent them from thinking that a nuke war is winnable.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  60. I voted Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1000's of times in this last election, and it did not make a difference.
    You would think that with all of the cheating going on by the GOP, that we could win a lot more races.

  61. Yeah, so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Getting rid of our nuclear weapons does not prevent them from building their own.

    If you don't want an insane dictator to nuke you, you either:

    1) rattle your own nukes at him in hopes that he is sane enough to realize an attack would result in his destruction (or that his subordinates are sane enough to overthrow him, based on the same motivation).

    2) apply force (political and/or military) to shut him down.

    Either way, giving up your own weapons only serves to make you a more attractive target.

  62. Dying with Confidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally, I would feel a lot better about dying if I believe the leaders of our country are doing the right thing, fighting the good fight.

  63. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1
    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  64. And "Threads" too by bythescruff · · Score: 1

    There's an English version of the same thing; it's called "Threads" and it's much, much more horrible. It's presented as a docudrama with lots of explanations of how and why damage occurs and people die. Everyone should see it, too.

    --
    Chuck Norris: Socialism == a thousand years of darkness.
  65. Re:chest thumping... planet of the apes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nuclear weapons were meant to disable hundreds or thousands of tanks or other armored vehicles at the war front. Then some wise-ass figured it should be used directly against civilian population. Just because The Act of Killing is fun!! (for those who missed the reference, baseball bats and machetes are quite enough for genocide)

  66. It is all unrestrained capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The word "cronyism" is used when Republicans think that a natural effect of unrestrained capitalism is too close to fascism.

    It's not quite a neologism, but it has had a sharp increase in use in recent years. I believe the effort is to get people to believe that the problem is not with the whole religion of capitalism, but some minor part of the implementation. "Oh no, capitalism doesn't concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a few bad actors. That's, uh, some other thing."

    To my mind, it's nothing that an extremely progressive tax structure wouldn't solve. Limiting the power of individuals would help the government enforce existing law. Most of the complaints people have with corruption and cronyism are already proscribed by law, but our dollar-fueled legal system is no deterrent to those with money, especially our elected representatives.

    There's some curious mental deficiency that operates among conservatives, which is willing to give men great ability ($$) to do whatever they please, and then is surprised when they turn out to be no less selfish than the people who put them there, and often a great deal more. I think it's a case of projection; they're too concerned with keeping up the appearance of morality to realize that that's what everyone else is doing too.

    I'll skip characterizing democrats, except to say that it would be nice to have a progressive party in this country.

    1. Re:It is all unrestrained capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took taco's swing to the right as a sign that either
      1. He has enough money to favor a political party that reduces his taxes
      2. His account has been taken over by propagandists

  67. silly kids by dlt074 · · Score: 1

    "This expansion comes under a president who campaigned for 'a nuclear-free world' and made disarmament a main goal of American defense policy."

    you missed the part where he's a pathological lier. The only thing he's done that he promised was to fundamentally change this country. mission accomplished.

  68. That's not what Obama actuallyt believes though by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Obama's views on nuclear weapons are shaped by the 'neo realists' of Dr Ken Waltz. And Waltz believed proliferation was a GOOD thing not a bad thing, that the MORE countries have atomic weapons the MORE stable the world is. Waltz, and his acolytes Walt and Mearscheimer have Obama's ear on this topic more than any other advisers. This is why Obama quietly doesn't really worry about Iran. He would like to see them acquire The Bomb.

    1. Re:That's not what Obama actuallyt believes though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOW. U fucking neo-cons/teabaggers are really cracked up.
      Now that there is ACA, you really need to get back on Lithium.

  69. Way to be racist by kungfupangolin · · Score: 1

    "As a former Cold Warrior (both launch officer side and staff analytical mathematician side), I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car." This is racial profiling regardless but there were Japanese fighting on the allied side.

  70. Japanese Cars versus rearmament by kungfupangolin · · Score: 1

    Don't say Jap

  71. Yeah, analogy was a non-sequitur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read the summary three times trying to figure out where the "former enemy" connection was.

  72. limitations of presidential power by j_l_larson · · Score: 1

    This happens with every presidency, regardless of party. Near the end of their potential term, they cave in to pressures from the military forces within and start deploying the war machine. It makes you wonder what pressures they were put under to discard their ideals.

  73. One-sided news Ã" yet again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No mention of the fact that Russia and China have been upgrading their arsenals.
    I wonder why the omission.

  74. Obama... If you like your Nukes, you can keep... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's a Government Program that will cost more money, Obama is IN.
    "We cannot condemn our children, and their children, to a future that is beyond their capacity to repair."
    He said that about the Global Temperature that hasn't risen an IRS Smidgen in two decades - but not about the National Debt that has exploded under his watch.

  75. Good Grief by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sound like the 1946 Germans talking about their leaders, or today's neo-cons/teabaggers talking about AGW. You ignore all facts while being total dicks.

  76. Give me a break by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    The cold war was over. reagan kept it going. That idiot raised more taxes on Americans than any other president; ran up the most massive deficits; ran like a coward from lebanon after he had been told to NOT go there; etc. etc.
    That man, along with W, were 2 of the worst fucking president that America has had.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  77. Context for the Japanese Car comment? by eanbowman · · Score: 1

    'I now appreciate the bitterness I saw in former WW2 warriors when they would see a Japanese car. '

    Can you elaborate on this? It looks bad without context.

  78. Re: chest thumping... planet of the apes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nuclear weapons carry chemicals that harm humans. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say they were created to take out tanks. maybe missiles in general were created for that, when nuclear weapons were from the start, created to reap havoc on large populations without having to send in ground troops to did.

  79. We are Still Here Although the Music isnt as Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    O bullshit.

    Everyone is fine. Reagan was not the Antichrist and Nancy never got around to telling him to push the button.

    Nothing to see here, move along.

  80. It takes only 100 nukes to "end the world" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nuking 100 cities is all that is necessary to "end the world." This has been known for over thirty years.See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter