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Which Cars Get the Most Traffic Tickets?
An anonymous reader writes: Have you ever been pulled over for a traffic stop and wondered if your sporty car was what caught the officer's attention? Ever had an officer pass up your clunker to snag a flashier vehicle? Well, there's now some data showing which vehicles accumulate the most tickets. According to a study by Insurance.com, drivers of the Subaru WRX, Pontiac GTO, and Scion FR-S get a higher percentage of tickets than drivers of any other cars. At the bottom of the list, we see vehicles such as the Ford Ecosport, the Land Rover LR4, and Chevy Sportvan. They have a widget that will let you see data on your own make/model, if you're curious.
Insurance.com analyzed online quote information submitted by 557,238 drivers January 2013 to July 2014. Ticket data calculated for models with 50 or more quotes.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You want to know if some vehicles get more tickets in relation to the number of infractions. If there's a correlation between cars and infractions committed, then a correlation between cars and tickets is useless without that information.
I guess the rapists in the Chevy Sportvan drive really carefully. Or this is just some random aggregate data...
I get messed with the cops at least every other time I take my 94 Supra out. It isn't fun. The worst is being tailgated by a county cop. Going through a town or two and they are still on your ass sucks. Not that I'm doing anything wrong, but it's still the annoyance because you know they are going to pop you for SOMETHING.
Is this for speeding or does it include tickets for parts falling off onto the roadway? A Topaz hasn't been manufactured since 1994.
Do they get tickets because they drive these vehicles, or do they drive these vehicles because they're the sort who get tickets?
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I drive a Subaru WRX/STi, and I've been pulled over once. When they realized I was over 40 and not a 17 year old with a souped up car they got really disappointed. I didn't get a ticket but they did say that my license plate frame was crooked.
A winner is you!
Police both sides of the Atlantic admit they target red cars with dark windows.
The Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS are the same exact car except for a few plates. The FRS is top 5 and the BRZ is 125. This shoes they didnt take into account the number of each type of car on the road into account. There are 1:4 of BRZ:FRS. This is completely useless results. Also as other people have said ... Drivers get tickets
I cant tell you how many times ive roared down the highway at the breakneck speed of 50 miles per hour in my 1996 Chevy Sportvan (pedal to the METAL baby, thats how i roll.) Its got all the markings of a classic hot rod, from the 48 foot turning radius to that sporty 6600 pound curb weight. and man ive got one heck of a lead foot in this autobahn racer so its good to know i dodged this bullet. I bet those cops have no clue about my high performance 33 gallon gas tank and optional school bus conversion (with sweet anti-lock braking too)
Good people go to bed earlier.
Cars don't get tickets, drivers do - but those drivers like the WRX,
This is the important bit. The cheaper "fun" cars are the ones that the younger, less responsible drivers can buy. I was extremely surprised when I bought a used Boxster S a few years ago (probably one of the best cars around for, umm, "enthusiastic" driving), and the liability insurance was LESS than for my 14 year old Camry.
To make things worse for the WRX, the STI version comes stock with a ridiculous wing on the trunk that just screams "stupid rice rocket driver."
No, it's a list of inexpensive sports cars and cheap cars that young drivers will be able to afford. The only one on that list that really stuck out to me was the Prius C, guess the younger demographic isn't as eco-conscious as the folks that bought the original Prius.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
It might just be that they have a lower top speed, but all the vehicles on the bottom of the list are physically quite large. I'd conjecture that they seem proportionately slower to the eyes of enforcement, since their size messes with your sense of scale.
The cars at the top of the list are also cars that younger drivers typically buy.
Woot, hondas and acuras don't get any tickets!
Somehow the Prius made it in at #20.
drivers of the Subaru WRX, Pontiac GTO, and Scion FR-S get a higher percentage of tickets than drivers of any other cars.
Wow. Cars most commonly driven by young men who like to go fast get the most tickets. Who would have guessed?
I guess that explains it. I haven't been pulled over in years... but I do hear a lot of cops laughing if I happen to drive by them.
#DeleteChrome
So did they correct that for the make-up of the total car population? If not, the numbers are useless to base selecting cars on.
Do they get tickets because they drive these vehicles, or do they drive these vehicles because they're the sort who get tickets?
Almost certainly the later. Think about it. These are relatively inexpensive, fast cars driven mostly by young men who like to go fast. Put the same guy in a Corvette and they will still get tickets because they drive like asshats and don't know when to take their foot off the accelerator.
Rich people drive more expensive cars because they can pay more, people who are rich also say a $100 ticket is sometimes part of doing business and pay the fine...
i don't see it anywhere on the list
Interesting that the Dodge Viper is in the bottom five. I'm surprised that wasn't mentioned in the summary (instead of, say, the #6 Land Rover).
What I don't understand is how the Subaru BRZ sits at 22% while the Scion FR-S sits at 32.6%. They are essentially the same damn car! I think results are skewed by low sample sizes for some cars.
That's my experience in an Accord sedan. I drive very fast, and haven't gotten a speeding ticket since I stopped driving flashy cars.
Who the heck still drives a Topaz?
I have several Mustang project cars. I drive them a lot differently than I drive my minivan. Of course I would expect to tickets more in them.
A anecdotal...
Booking down I95 in VA going about 85 mph in light traffic, me in one of my Mustangs and some dude in a Beemer were driving together passing a slower plain old Chevy car that was in the fast lane going about 75. As we round the bend we all see the cop in the median. The Chevy hits his brakes and we don't. The Chevy got pulled over. Not us.
Sure, the leading cars are popular with young drivers, but data only gets to this study when someone comes to this insurance company for a quote and self-reports a ticket in the process. If junior is running around in whatever car mom and dad gave him and gets a ticket but they pay the ticket and the insurance it doesn't make it into these numbers at all. The ticketed drivers that go to this site for a quote after a ticket are the ones who are paying their own insurance, and there aren't a lot of younger drivers in that set currently.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
This data is questionable. It's listing cars driven by my grandparents, which haven't been manufactured in decades. Even ignoring the out-of-date content, more pertinent would be filtering by cars under 10 years old, and tickets *per mile driven*. I imagine some of the sports cars near the bottom of the list are low in the rankings because they're only driven in good weather, a few times a year, for example. Dividing the list by class of vehicle might also be more useful than lumping them all together - sports cars, minivans, sedans, economy cars, etc. And finally, the type of ticket might be valuable information. Are those Dodge Darts there because anyone still driving one is probably driving a rolling pile of safety violations, missing inspection stickers, and lapsed registrations - thus making them prone to tickets for non-moving violations?
It also depends on location. In the city, police won't touch the BMWs or Mercedes because the driver will fight them tooth and nail. Instead, Hondas, Chevies, anything that is a lower priced vehicle is easily targeted.
Ironically, this is different in the country, because the driver will just pay the ticket so they don't have to spend the time to drive back to banjo country to deal with some podunk court of law anyway.
In general, the higher-zoot the vehicle, the more one can get away with things... to a point. 120+, the police will want the trophy regardless, as that will make the news.
I can't believe the prius is #20. We've got those all over here... and if someone passes me doing 90 on the interstate it's usually a prius. Maybe the irony makes them stand out.
Thank you for telling us what kind of car you drive. Our ad network's profiler will appreciate this information.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Conversely, I was driving a VW Rabbit (old) with expired out of state plates, but still within the month they expired (both states - source & destination - allow you to drive the car in the month it expires) and I was pulled out of the car, by two officers *at gun point* (later, according to them, no one had reported anything, but the fact that I was in an old car, with expired plates was very suspicious) they even shouted asking if I had any tattoos, and I said "yes, on my leg" and they replied
"show us"
"I can't do that without dropping my pants officer!"
"drop 'em"
and there I was, pants around my ankles in the parking lot of a 7-11 late at night with two small town cops pointing their guns at me. I *know* they wouldn't have done that had I been driving a BMW 745i - drastically different experiences, all based on the make/model of the car.
involves removing the tree from the engine compartment.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
911 (couldn't actually find my model) ranks 447. Eat my dust baby!
Have gnu, will travel.
ok, I'm going OT. These days you better pay that ticket, show up for court, or you will be issued a FTA (failure to appear) and you will be issued a bench warrent. Result is next time you are pulled over, it is mandatory arrest, as dispatch radios back to officer the 10-28/10-29 info.
But it wasn't like that back in the days. There were people that accumulate tickets which they never took care of i.e. as portrayed in "American Graffiti" of John Milner's "CS files." A relative of mine who died decades ago but I heard he was one of the worst drivers. When aunt and uncle going through his stuff after he passed away, they found piles of tickets. Or maybe he simply paid the fine and went on to the next. I believe back then you can just pay the fine but these days after number of moving violations in a certain period of time you lose license. Back then there was no CLETS and NCIC (there was but not all depts were "online" or it was really slow). I wonder how one can get away with so many tickets.
On subject of quotas, I ask my cousin, deputy sheriff, about quotas. He said there is none but if supervisor reviewing activity log and see deputy lacking in pullovers when was not dispatched on calls, then supervisor will wonder why deputy not active. Cousin said it's easy to find violators, somebody is always doing a traffic violation. Other times he has no time to pull people over because he is getting one call after another.
Heh, here's a story for the reading multitudes. As a child and mom going to night school, I had a baby sitter who was a strict Baptist. One day I said a "bad word" (I don't remember what it was) but my baby sitter made me wash my mouth with soap (yuck). Then on one occasion when she went to the store and brought along the children, me included. She got pulled over and she got really mad, was yelling at the cop, cussing like a sailor (I didn't get the words but I knew they were bad). Cop was calm about it all, insisted she sign the ticket. He gave her a copy which she screamed and cussed, crunched it up and threw it to the floor. When we got back home, she continued to yell and cuss, kicked the crunched up ticket to the ground. I wondered if she paid for it or not. Was an FTA issued?
mfwright@batnet.com
All based on their assumptions about your income and your ability to hire a lawyer.
I recall reading some webpage about a Dodge caravan with something like a turbo 2.5 liter 4-cylinder. Apparently that same engine has a performance part following as it was used in some Dodge shadows or some such. Dude claimed that with race gas and modified computer settings, he was beating modified camaros and mustangs at the track.
Ok, I found the link: http://www.turbovan.net/van.html
Dude has time slips showing 12.65 quarter mile.
The Scion is marketed to younger people and trimmed a bit hotter. The Subaru is marketed to older people and has things like heated seats and automatic climate control.
The headline is clickbait, and the article is native advertising.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I am a bit taken aback by the inclusion of the FJ Cruiser. I see a few younger drivers with them, but they aren't exactly cheap.
Knowing most of the people that drive a Mercury Topaz, I am not surprised by that. I wish I could snag a Supra as they are a bit difficult to get in this day and age.
Place something witty here
The Scion is marketed to younger people and trimmed a bit hotter. The Subaru is marketed to older people and has things like heated seats and automatic climate control.
The WRX? That's the rally car version with an amazing power/weight ratio and all wheel drive to get that power to the rubber. Not exactly the Oldsmobile demographic.
FWIW, heated seats match up well with all wheel drive, you're living in a snowy place if you buy this car, regardless of age.
Oh Thank You! I needed a great laugh
No, not the WRX. The BRZ. Try to keep up (with the thread, not the car).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
> TFA was bullshit when I saw the Supra on the list ranked at #4 (and the 3000 GT at #17).
> They stopped making both of those cars well over 10 years ago
So they are sporty cars that are ten years old and now worth about $2,500. What kind of driver with $2,500 to spend on a car buys something sporty? Teenage boys, maybe?
Would teenage boys who drive sports cars be more likely to get tickets that a soccer mom in a minivan?
The WRX is not an inexpensive car...
At least it is good to see people driving the WRX to its potential ;)
Because people who aren't rich can't own a vehicle that used to be expensive? My car retailed around $70k new. I picked it up for $40k. Doesn't mean that I can pay for every ticket that I would get if I drove around with the hammer down all the time. Thankfully, I usually drive like a responsible adult, and don't attract more attention than the car does on it's own.
The WRX is inexpensive as far as sports cars go, especially if you go with the base rather than STI model.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
If you dont drive like a Complete Dooshbag, you dont get ticketed.
Sadly, most drivers out there dont understand that... "It's the Cars fault Bro!"
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I *know* they wouldn't have done that had I been driving a BMW 745i - drastically different experiences, all based on the make/model of the car.
And this is why I shifted to driving top-of-the-line Kraut Kans. Even an old one still commands respect. I can fly by at 80 in my 300SD, nothing. But go by at 70 in the Astro and they squint hard to see how Mexican you are. I'm working on prepping an A8 now, which should make me even more invisible. Paint's much better than my 300SD.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
My experience as well. I got four tickets and two warnings in my boring un-riced Civic, only one of which I think was justified (though i was technically speeding in all cases).
Got an S2000, assumed I'd really get hassled by the cops, though I quickly worked up the nerve to go my usual 80 in the left lane. Not a peep from the popo. Started driving alone in the HOV toll lane when traffic congests, thinking I'm really asking for it now, flaunting my "wealth". I've had road ragers in pickup trucks try to fuck with me for no apparent reason but sheer envy or resentment, but nothing from the cops, for six years.
My theory is that it takes only $15k to separate punk kid immigrant ricer from responsible white adult in their mind.
Considering the Tesla is a luxury car, both by market segment and by marketing I'm not sure where you're going with that...
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
My mother-in-law's Mercury Topaz is surely a greater danger! How she gets away with it I'll never know.
What a crappy misuse of statistics. Heh, hardly even statistics. How about balancing those "ticketed" numbers against the number of each model on the road? I don't see a single Porsche, Maserati, Jaguar, not even Corvettes! And they don't get tickets? Come on!
Wow, I never would have guessed that car to be at #20 on this list.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Well the most popular color for the Prius C. is that glaring orange color.
To me, the data doesn't show what cars attract tickets or prove any bias. To do that you'd have to assume all drivers commit traffic violations at the same rate independent of car model. It probably better represents what cars people who like to speed prefer to drive, and possibly so bias on what car models are more popular in areas that have higher enforcement.
A good 40MPH over the limit on highways. Here in RI most of the highways are 55MPH or 65MPH. But I recall as a kid they used to all be 70MPH.
So I can be found flying down RI-4, or I-95 in a variety of vehicles.
Most recently I had a Subaru Impreza - speedy little beast. I was on I-95N in the left hand lane until I came upon an asshole doing 55MPH there. So I dropped to the right, accelerated. I see headlights behind me while I'm doing 85MPH. It's a State Trooper - he just cuts around me. Didn't even turn the lights or siren on. And the car was in fact RED!
The WRX? That's the rally car version with an amazing power/weight ratio and all wheel drive to get that power to the rubber. Not exactly the Oldsmobile demographic.
I'm guessing you are a little younger than me as my opinion of Oldsmobile was formed by the cars they had in the late 1960's and early 1970's. I had a friend who has a 1970 Olds Cutlass SX. That was a beast of a car. The engine was a 455 rated at 365HP and 510lbs of torque. There were also the more common 442's.
While not as sporty, the first two generations of the Toronado were just plain beautiful cars. And with a 385HP 425 Olds Rocket V8, they would still get up and go.
The 1977-1979 Starfire Firenza weighed 2800 lbs and could be had with a 305 ci V8. It wasn't the prettiest of cars, but it handled well for it's time and had a good power to weight ratio.
The WRX is not an inexpensive car...
On a price/performance basis it is incredibly cheap among new cars. You can have a new 2015 WRX for MRSP $26,295 and you'll probably pay less than that. And unlike the US muscle cars in the same price range it can actually turn and be driven in sloppy conditions. It's not the prettiest car out there but value/speed for money it is hard to beat.
Vipers are straight line cars. They utterly suck in corners. so on public roads you cant go fast unless it's the desert or open Freeway.
I'm guessing you've never driven one. I have one sitting 30 feet from me as I type this. One of the partners in my company has one he bought this January and I've driven it. They can turn just fine. Are there cars that are better in the corners? Sure. But the Viper is quite capable I assure you - well beyond most people's driving ability including my own. What the Viper is not is refined. The Viper is a sledgehammer - not a precision instrument. They don't carve the corners like a Lotus. But they are NOT just straight line muscle cars. Anyone who tells you they are hasn't been behind the wheel of one.
My wife used to drive a Ford Explorer. After she got a Mazda Miata she got 3 speeding tickets in the first week. She maintains that she didn't drive her Miata any faster than her Explorer and I have no doubt that she didn't. She learned the hard way that when driving a sporty car you get a lot more attention from law enforcement. I have been driving Miatas for years and long noticed this. When I drive my Miata through a nearby small town more than half of the time I notice a police car following me; usually all the way to the city limit sign before turning around. I know they are just itching for me to do something wrong so they can ticket me. When I drive through the same town in our Toyota Sienna I'm never followed; guess the Sienna is invisible to police. If you want to drive fast the worst car to own is a sports car. Sleeper cars are fast but look like bone stock ordinary boring car models and are what you need if you intend to drive fast.
Must be nice to have tickets that are only $100. The very cheapest moving violation in Oklahoma City is well over $200, and the speeding fines start in the upper 200s.
Keep in mind that tickets are not a mere nuisance for rich people, either. Tickets cause insurance to go up, and eventually tickets lead to getting your drivers license taken away. That is not any better for the rich than it is for the rest of us.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Because all drug charges are BS, except perhaps for driving under the influence.
This is way off topic but...
Tell that to the people whose lives they affect. Would you like a doctor who operates on you while high? Perhaps you think someone showing up to work while high is not a serious matter? Some drug charges are BS (like most relating to marijuana) but many are quite serious matters.
We restrict access to certain drugs for (mostly) very good reasons. If someone wants to live away from society where their actions cannot affect anyone else then by all means they can use whatever drugs make them happy and none of us will care much. But when actions start to have negative consequences for others then we have a problem and it's hard for certain drugs to not negatively affect others. If you can explain to me the upside to society of someone having a cocaine or heroin addiction then I'll concede the point.
Is it that the car got the law enforcement officer's attention, or the driver's behavior? These cars are probably owned by people who drive them aggressively but their flashiness and possibly the driver's snootiness likely tells the officer that the driver can afford and deserves a citation.
I had a Audi TT convertible for a while back in the early 2000s. For some reason the pickup truck guys used to fuck with me too. Can't figure out why. It's not exactly an expensive exotic. Maybe they just do it whenever they see a guy in a convertible. Or maybe they all thought it was an expensive car. I got called rich boy. I got coal rolled. I had people key my car. I had people tag my car. And I had some local red neck kids setting my alarm off every night for a week before I remembered you could turn off the impact sensor. In the same parking lot I had kept a Golf, a Porsche 914, and a Bronco II, Audi Quattro Coupe, various other Japanese economy cars.... without any issues.
The Scion has 200hp and no torque.Every hot hatch leaves it behind at the traffic lights. It's not marketed to younger people. Maybe it's marketed to older people who like to drive. Subaru could be the same (well, the Scion is also a Subaru). And a wrx is not cheap, also not for younger people. I wouldn't be surprised if the accident rate is fairly modest. Or maybe the accident/ticket ratio.
Porsches on the other hand attract elderly people with dough. Are they thrashing it? They ain't thrashing.
Isn't the BRZ already on its way out? Didn't sell well I understand.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Buy a Toyota 86 or Subaru BRZ instead.
Then I'm curious what you consider a sports car. Even a base model WRX can return a sub-6 second 0-60.
> And a wrx is not cheap, also not for younger people.
The comparison is between the Subaru BRZ and the Scion FR-S. The BRZ and FR-S are essentially the same car, but with two different marketing campaigns by two different companies. The WRX is unrelated.
> The Scion ... is not marketed to younger people. Maybe it's marketed to older people who like to drive.
Quotes from Scion's annual report:
In North America, Toyota targeted young customers by launching sales of Scion-marque cars across the United States.
We initiated the Scion project to attract Generation Y customers.
Premiered nationally during fiscal 2005 to target Generation Y, the Scion project is successfully broadening Toyota’s
appeal, with first-time customers accounting for roughly 80% of Scion-marque sales.
Loading Scion.com pops up four promotional icons:
Social media
Music and Events
Car Releases
College Rebate Promotion
Are older people or younger people more into social media?
College - is that mostly for older people or younger people?
Music and events - same
The FR-S commercial says it's "epic" as two 20-somethings step out of the car to join their 20-something friends.
The word "Scion" means "child" or "descendant".
Cars don't get tickets; people do.
... young males drivers driving these relatively inexpensive wheels get the most traffic tickets... and tomorrow the sun will rise in the east and set in the west.
It's quite complete since it doesn't include the ethnicity of the drivers.
in other news insurance.com biggest customer base are owners of Subarus, Scions and Pontiacs...
I drive a 2013 Leaf. Not on the list for the widget.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Probably. Considering the BRZ is practically a copy of the FR-S, I don't expect too many people who want to buy a Subaru sports car is going to get one that looks the same as a piece of crap Scion.
You said "it's not marketed to younger people. " As evidence, you linked to an article that says:
this project's mission was to attract a younger buyer to each of the brands.
By selling an attractive, RWD sports car at a reasonable price, they were hoping to capture the holy grail of Generation Y
The STI is only 4k more than the WRX. At the prices we're talking about that's not all that significant, especially since usually these cars are going to have between 600-2k in mods on average (Including tune).
I got pulled for "not having a front license plate" in a ratty old VW Rabbit convertible that actually did have one.
Then I drove past the same cops in the same hidey-hole in an MBZ 420SEL that had NO LICENSE PLATES AT ALL for three years...
Never got pulled.
AC for obvious reasons.
Probably. Considering the BRZ is practically a copy of the FR-S, I don't expect too many people who want to buy a Subaru sports car is going to get one that looks the same as a piece of crap Scion.
The Subaru BRZ and Toyota 86 are the same car. It was a joint venture between Toyota and Subaru (hence the car is referred to as the Toyobaru or sometimes Subiota). Toyota did the body, electrics and suspension, Subaru put did the engine.
Unfortunately, the flat 4 boxers that Subaru produce have always been lacklustre without a turbocharger. A nice high revving honda K series would have been a better choice if they had to be NA but they wouldn't have been able to make the car as low as it is (flat engines are well, rather flat, normal inline 4's tend to be taller).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Unfortunately, the flat 4 boxers that Subaru produce have always been lacklustre without a turbocharger.
The whole point of the car was to give affordable, usable power. You can drive the car at 9/10 on the street at legal speeds, on twisty roads anyway. Turbo kits are already around, couple them with a bit more damping (for anti-squat) and some more rubber and you're off! And the door is open to throw some more powerful engines in there later. Or, perhaps now. I'd very much like to see Subaru and Toyota each roll their own turbo kits, and each bring out their own hot version. They would differentiate the vehicles from one another, in addition to bringing in the people like yourself who feel the car requires more power.
Incidentally, those Subaru engines might be "lacklustre" but they have amazingly flat curves and they have a massive assload of headroom left in them. A lot of them can be wrung out another 1,000 RPM or more, so there's loads of room for tuning. But they're designed to take a lot of abuse. If you maintain a Subaru with a manual transmission well, you can expect it to really hold up. But they're not amazingly well-protected against corrosion, so part of that is underbody maintenance if you live someplace where that's a significant issue. That's fairly unfortunate for a brand known for all-terrain, all-weather performance.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I had a Audi TT convertible for a while back in the early 2000s. For some reason the pickup truck guys used to fuck with me too.
And this is why I debadged my A8. Except the grill, I haven't got to that yet. Or the teeny little Audi ovals on the sides. Gonna black out the grill logo shortly. I don't want it to look like I have bags of money. I don't. I bought the car cheap and I'm restoring it, which was stupid but there you have it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Which leads to pretty lacklustre times, 0-100, 80-120, 1/4 mile.
Dont get me wrong however, if someone told me that they wanted a fun car, my first response would be "get a GT86" in my best Jeremy Clarkson accent. It is a cornering machine.
Sure there's plenty of potential... but the thing about potential is that you need to work to unlock it. As the owner of a Silvia S15, let me say mods are expensive if you want them done well enough not to blow up the car you're spending thousands on improving. Its not as simple as bolting on a turbo, your suspension and anti-roll bars need to be reworked at a minimum.
The Subaru FA engine is of course, a fantastic engine, it's the same engine that goes into the WRX some STI's. But these both have turbochargers. The FA20 the Toyobaru twins _is_ a WRX engine without a turbocharger. Many have argued, as you have that the 86/BRZ are the 180's (Silvia S13) of their day. A light weight, highly modifiable, extremely reliable sports car for the masses... And I buy that argument completely, certainly a flat 4 sounds fantastic (a hell of a lot better than the SR20DET in a 180). But Toyota and Subaru should have turbocharged it from the word go. Toyota's FT86 concept was turbocharged but I guess Subaru didn't want it competing too much with the WRX.
This needs to be said again. A basically maintained Subi will go for donkeys years.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The WRX also tends to be driven by small-dicked douchebags
your suspension and anti-roll bars need to be reworked at a minimum.
Sure, but by "suspension" you mean dampers and maybe springs, and anti-roll bars are fairly inexpensive and trivial to upgrade. Bolting on the turbo is more work by far. And as stated before, you need a better tire and wheel package. So what, 1-3k depending on provenance? Before you get to the turbo, obviously. Since there's no cars to pull parts from, you do have to buy everything new, not actual Subarus where everything interchanges and they about snap together like Lego. I'd rather have an Impreza, anyway; I prefer my Subarus with AWD. I bought an A8 D2, which is kind of like the Impreza's classy uncle. I suspect that if you put the D2 next to a GC5 the similarities would leap out. Off to go do that in an image.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And because you don't see it (possibly because the responsible users have been driven underground alike with the irresponsible ones, but the irresponsible ones are the ones who act out, and thus are seen) it doesn't exist!
Are you done with the empty rhetorical arguments yet? You know damn well what I meant by "I see no reason" or if you don't you need to go figure that out first. If you want to make an argument backed up by something then by all means enlighten us with your brilliance since you seem to think you have this problem solved.
I'm puzzled what you think "responsible" use of heroin might look like. Bizarre notion you have there. That said, responsible or irresponsible, underground or not, you haven't given me a single reason why we as a society should condone the use of dangerous drugs like heroin or legalize their use.
And it should be drawn before alcohol, by gum! It's the devil's spirit!
Boy that's a convincing argument. I guess you aren't done with the content free rhetorical arguments.
I don't have a problem with adults drinking or smoking (tobacco or pot) provided they do so without endangering others or causing problems for society. I think that any costs of the health problems caused by those products should be borne entirely by the person who used them. If that means you get shitty health care because you chose to smoke tobacco then that is your problem because it is 100% in your control. Got a bad liver because you drank too much? Tough shit on getting a transplant. If you want to use drugs recreationally then the costs of that are on you. If you decide to use a particularly dangerous drug like heroin then there should be consequences for that. I think throwing drug users in jail is stupid but there are plenty of other societal consequences we can utilize.
And this is why I debadged my A8. Except the grill, I haven't got to that yet. Or the teeny little Audi ovals on the sides. Gonna black out the grill logo shortly. I don't want it to look like I have bags of money. I don't. I bought the car cheap and I'm restoring it, which was stupid but there you have it.
I blacked out all the trim on my 7, even the BMW logo (blue/white) as black/white, the 740iL badge on the back, black - the distinctive BMW front grille, black - even turned the the trunk release button black - her exterior trim was 100% black.
...and I totally get you on that last statement, 7 series parts, even those that were basically the same as a 3 were (lol) 7x more expensive. Whenever I had it in the shop my mechanic would always note the "seven series surcharge" I was incurring just by driving that model. *sigh* Even so, at the time I had a 2hr commute and I wouldn't have traded the luxury of that ride for anything - every car since that one has been a PoC by comparison. Ruined cages for me forever.
When I drove it, anyone seeing the large high end sedan and wanted to know what model it was would look to the back right corner to see what model I had, and it being in black, they couldn't tell...if anything, it added to the "mystique" of the car, I had quite a few people come up to me and ask if it was a "special edition" or similar. It had no change on the types of drivers that fsk with you just for "appearing" to be Mr. Moneybags (which is great for LEO, don't forget that) - if anything, it brought more attention to the car, granted, YMMV.
A Pontiac GTO? Pontiac doesn't even exist anymore so do they do some sort of time traveling to get their stats???
Or you have RA. I knew someone in her 30's who drove a Subaru for just that reason, heated seat.