The Era of Saturday Morning Cartoons Is Dead

A little late by houstonbofh · 2014-10-04 15:14 · Score: 4, Funny

After 2 days of discussion I am kinda done with this topic. So much for leading the pack.

not quite by jaymz666 · 2014-10-04 15:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

billions still watch TV. Not quite dead yet

Re:not quite by reanjr · 2014-10-04 15:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

But those people are typically too poor to have high speed internet. They don't spend money. That's why everything is reality TV now. Anything else is too expensive to produce because the ad dollars just aren't there.
Re:not quite by jaymz666 · 2014-10-04 15:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Except for Game of Throne, and The Walking Dead, and True Blood, and The Good Wife, and Big Bang Theory and a whole host of other shows that somehow still get made and watched.
Re:not quite by Macrat · 2014-10-04 15:50 · Score: 2

Except for Game of Throne, and The Walking Dead, and True Blood, and The Good Wife, and Big Bang Theory and a whole host of other shows that somehow still get made and watched.
That's not "TV," it's cable.
Re:not quite by jaymz666 · 2014-10-04 15:56 · Score: 3, Informative

You might want to check your sources there. At least two of those shows are on regular TV stations.
Re:not quite by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-04 19:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. As someone with 12 years in the industry (why I am posting anonymously) it isn't that people aren't watching TV. People watch loads of TV, and if you want to watch cartoons on saturday morning you can. You can watch one type on Nick, another type on Disney, another type on Cartoon Network and... the issue is that the households with kids who decide not to get cable aren't large enough now to justify the expense vs profit.
There are two things going on here:
1. Profit-seeking.
This is cost/revenue stuff. If you can get $5 million for 10 million viewers with production costs of $4 million, you've just made $1 million. If you can get the same viewership while spending $1.5 million on cheaper programming, you've just made $3.5 million. And remember, these types of numbers aren't just about total viewers, you get much better ad prices for different demographics... an example might be The Office, which never had spectacular ratings yet the ratings it did have skewed towards affluent and younger. They could license cartoons instead of paying to have them made, but have decided they make more running other stuff.
2. Market fragmentation.
There will never be another Cheers, where 50-75% of the country watched the finale, or where everyone at work the next day had watched last night. They still watch boatloads of TV, they simply have 180+ channels to do it on hence why niche (and yes, cheaper) programming is a valid way to focus *unless* you are a network. Everyone wants as many viewers as possible, in the most desired-demos possible... but due to fragmentation, you can still win the night by targeting a specific niche, whether ethnicity or class or gender (gender, being 50/50, is often the better bet).
Re:not quite by jedidiah · 2014-10-05 07:06 · Score: 2

It only gives you a reason to be a smug pretentious jackass to total strangers who's opinions don't have any real significance anyways.

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An end of an era... by SternisheFan · 2014-10-04 15:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

I was born in '59, basically raised on TV. In fact I was my family's walking TV Guide. Cartoons then were mostly the repeats of what were shown in theaters. Heckle & Jeckle cartoons were strange, Bugs Bunny 'toons were un-uncensored, and U.S. militarily bent. Tom & Jerry's violence would never be shown today, too much violence in them. A lot of the gags when those cartoons were made then tried to entertain the kids and the adults, with double entendres that would never be allowed to be shown to today's kids. Somehow, we survived.

I can remember turning on the TV early Sunday morning, before anyone else in the house was awake, and after the early morning test pattern went by, Davey & Goliath would fill my mind with 'magical images' of a wondrous, magical, moral world. It was a very nice time to grow up in, at least until the grownups woke up, but I digress.

R.I.P., Saturday morning cartoons. I guess it's all real news for the kids of today...

What killed it? by kuzb · 2014-10-04 15:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Simple. They made shit and kids didn't want to watch it. They butchered shows so badly and made so many rules that it was impossible to make anything other than shit.

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Speaking for myself by fyngyrz · 2014-10-04 15:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't think the Internet killed Saturday morning cartoons. I think corporate-inspired churn in pursuit of ever more income pushed out some very lovely and entertaining cartoons in favor of what was, quite frankly, awful junk. Poorly drawn, badly scored, badly scripted, and almost uniformly missing the hilarious innuendo and subtleties that were present in your typical 'toon from the nineteen-fifites and -sixties.

I would *still* be willing to sit down for a morning of road runner, bugs bunny and crew, daffy duck, foghorn leghorn, jetsons, flintstones, pepe le pew, and so on. I would have encouraged my kids to watch. But it all went away, I "encouraged" my kids to ignore the television entirely (with a lock and key), and that's part of the story of how broadcast television completely lost one family. Toons were definitely part of the problem. Between that, and the evolution of news from at least somewhat "this is what's happening" to almost entirely "this is what you should think", broadcast television became exceedingly unwelcome in my home. Cable went soon after.

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Re:Speaking for myself by Greyfox · 2014-10-04 16:32 · Score: 2

You mean generally racist or ultra-violent cartoons? By the time I started watching cartoons in the mid 70's, most of the really racist stuff wasn't being played anymore, but last time I rolled through Europe, Cartoon Network was playing a lot of the older Warner Brothers cartoons. I thought I pretty much knew the score there, but that was a bit of an eye-opener. Simpsons in German when you're jetlagged out of your skull is really fun, though.
Most of the cartoons of the 70's were crap. Remember the old Spider Man or Star Trek cartoons? They didn't seem like they ran that long. I'm pretty sure the writers used a lot of LSD. Justice League and Scooby Doo were just formulaic crap. I don't recall the Flintstones or Jetsons being overtly bad, but I don't remember them being particularly good either. And that was the A list. Once noon rolled around, things went from bad to worse. I had to get that in there somehow.
As bad as all that was, though, it was worse in Japan. I lived my first 5 years in Japan. Anime depicting decapitations and blood everywhere seemed to be kids' fare there in the early 70s. Somehow they still all seemed to end up growing up less fucked-up overall than we did. Assuming that you consider them getting vending machines with used panties and us getting the mass-murder-of-the-week club them growing up less fucked up. Seems like things went slightly better over there to me.

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Re:Speaking for myself by BarbaraHudson · 2014-10-04 16:47 · Score: 2

I would *still* be willing to sit down for a morning of road runner, bugs bunny and crew, daffy duck, foghorn leghorn, jetsons, flintstones, pepe le pew, and so on. I would have encouraged my kids to watch.
A lot of those cartoons (particularly the road runner ones) entered an era of self-censorship (OMG we can't show the coyote getting blasted to smithereens) that if you hadn't seen the original, the re-runs are confusing.
That was an age of innocence that we just can't seem to re-create.

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Re:Speaking for myself by witherstaff · 2014-10-04 16:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

I've been happy with Phineas and Ferb. Sure it's Disney, still it's just oddball enough to make it worth watching. The main characters are engineers finally something neater than Handy Smurf or the doozers.
Re:Speaking for myself by KalvinB · 2014-10-04 17:27 · Score: 2

In the mid 1990's the government mandated that children's programming be educational.
That killed every good cartoon on network TV. Cable isn't subject to those laws. Corporate greed is killing those shows though for the reasons you listed. Also, cable just isn't a big money thing for the average show. They don't have the budgets that network shows have.
I buy box sets of the good shows so my daughter can watch them when she wants. And the best part is no ads and there are rarely still existing products so she's not being sold anything even passively.

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Re:Speaking for myself by BancBoy · 2014-10-04 17:38 · Score: 2

In the mid 1990's the government mandated that children's programming be educational.
Did they really? I was under the impression that they mandated a certain amount of Educational/Informative Children's Programming be shown per week. Hence the Sunday morning cartoons in the time slot when the network didn't have any sporting event or important programming to show.

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Re:Speaking for myself by Dahamma · 2014-10-04 18:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

Why does everyone keep using the Flintstones as an example of (good or bad) Saturday morning cartoons!?
Flintstones was a prime time ABC show in the early 1960's. If you think of it in *that* context is was a trend-setting and brilliant forerunner to the current (and mostly over the hill) prime time family-unit cartoons like The Simpsons and Family Guy...
Re:Speaking for myself by epyT-R · 2014-10-04 20:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

So what? Everything must be PC, sterile, and conflict free? This attitude is the reason TV, movies, (and probably games soon) are so goddamn boring. They all play out like soaps now.
Re:Speaking for myself by Pseudonym · 2014-10-04 20:55 · Score: 4, Informative

I say this as an Australian: All the good cartoons these days seem to be Canadian. Check out Total Drama, Almost Naked Animals, and Kid vs Kat for a few good examples.

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Re:Speaking for myself by Pseudonym · 2014-10-04 20:56 · Score: 2

So you didn't watch Rocky & Bullwinkle and Roger Ramjet, or you were too young to get the Cold War satire?

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Re:Speaking for myself by sjames · 2014-10-04 21:04 · Score: 2

Actually, in the '60s and '70s all of that was Saturday morning fare. It was bundled up into an hour long show with a small bit of newly done 'glue' to hold it together. It was re-runs, but all new for the audience they targeted. The various cartoons came and went, but the Warner toons were a constant.
Re:Speaking for myself by flyneye · 2014-10-05 00:45 · Score: 2

I look at the Yellow Submarine cartoon and think " I bet they used a lot of LSD"
I look at the old spider man and Star Trek cartoons and think" I bet they used a lot of antacid".

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Looney Tunes by p51d007 · 2014-10-04 15:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Looney Tunes, Bugs, Elmer Road Runner etc...THOSE were cartoons. What happened is the political correctness destroyed them. Speedy Gonzales, nope, making fun of Mexicans, Sylvester, Elmer, nope, makes fun of someone with a speech problem. Then you run into the whole "too violent" problem. Daffy walks into a shotgun blast from Elmer, the Coyote falls off a cliff, hits the ground and an Acme safe falls on him, too violent. Even the reruns the cartoon network use to show have been butchered. They show the coyote at the edge of a cliff, then on the ground a few seconds later. Oh yeah and the video games, crap on tv isn't violent? Political correctness destroyed the Saturday morning cartoon along with instant access streaming, and political correctness is destroying America and the rest of western civilization along with multiculturalism.

Re:Looney Tunes by the_Bionic_lemming · 2014-10-04 16:01 · Score: 2

No, it's cultimulcharism.
The cults are mulching America.

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Re:Looney Tunes by mlts · 2014-10-04 16:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

There is also the fact that cartoons were not obviously just advertisements for products. Yes, there was merchandising... but a Bugs Bunny cartoon stood alone... it wasn't something made to sell a Bugs doll or an Elmer-Fudd styled blunderbuss.
There is also the quality difference. The 1950s backdrops that were painted by hand versus crap where the characters barely move when dialog happens. It is nice to see a mouth move, not a square or triangle flash when a character makes dialog. Mainstream animation is junk for the most part.
The sad thing, there are still quality artists out there. You just don't see their animation work on TV because their work isn't selling something or is part of a merchandising campaign to get kids whining to their parents for yet another made-in-China toy that ends up tossed in the trash in less than a few months.
Re:Looney Tunes by C0R1D4N · 2014-10-04 17:08 · Score: 4, Informative

First off, Speedy Gonzalez is LOVED in Mexico, he's a cultural icon there, not a stereotype (his slower cousin maybe not as well received). Also there was a recent show that featured all the characters and definitely as enjoyable or more enjoyable for adults.
Re:Looney Tunes by vux984 · 2014-10-04 17:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Looney Tunes, Bugs, Elmer Road Runner etc...THOSE were cartoons.
And flinstones and jetsons... but while the looney toons violence is timeless... the flintstones humor hasn't aged well.
And Rocket Robin Hood and Hercules were from the same era and were shit.
Point is not everything pre-1970 was good, even if it was the golden age.
But yeah, the 70s and 80s had some hits ... smurfs, transformers, tom and jerry etc... but sure the end of the 80s was pretty bad... Smoggies remains fixed in my mind as the pinnacle of PC schlock.
But it rebounded, those died off, as even kids wouldn't watch them. And lots of 90s cartoons are solid ... from Tiny Toons and Animaniacs to Talespin, Darkwing Duck, The Tick, Dexters Lab....
And there's lots of good shows on today. Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Phineas and Ferb to name a few...
Political correctness destroyed the Saturday morning cartoon
In a word no. What destroyed the "Saturday Morning Cartoon" is quite simply that the majority of people who want to watch cartoons have cable or satellite with 24 hour cartoon networks. It wasn't the internet or political correctness or streaming.
When I was a kid, saturday morning was about the only block of cartoons I could watch we lived around them in a sense. My kids? Have cartoon network, and ytv... they aren't going to even think to switch it to NBC or something for a 4 hour block once a week...
The internet and streaming, sure just more nails in the coffin, but it was already dead.
And Political correctness? Sure it set cartoons back in the late 80s, but its been 20 years since; and there are cartoons out now that are better than ever.
Re:Looney Tunes by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-04 19:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

There is also the quality difference. The 1950s backdrops that were painted by hand versus crap where the characters barely move when dialog happens.
Do you know what killed the quality animation?
Saturday morning cartoons.
The early cartoons were shown in movies. When they switched to TV, they needed so much more new cartoons that it just wasn't possible to have any quality in the animation anymore.
When you think of 1960s and 1970s Saturday morning cartoons, don't think about the Looney Tunes that were made in the 1940s for movies. Think about Top Cat, Snagglepuss, Lippy the Lion & Hardy Har Har, Magilla Gorilla, Atom Ant, and all the other mass-produced drock from Hanna-Barbera.
Re:Looney Tunes by MMC+Monster · 2014-10-04 22:55 · Score: 2

Think you hit it on the head with Cartoon Network and other cable offerings.
Why would kids limit themselves to that three hour block on Saturday mornings when they can watch whenever they want on CN?
Cable TV killed the Saturday morning cartoons.

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Re:Looney Tunes by CrimsonAvenger · 2014-10-04 23:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

Which has little to do with the Political Correctness Police in the USA.
If the PC crowd decided that Speedy ought to be offensive to Mexicans, then it WAS offensive to Mexicans (by definition, even if Mexicans enjoyed it thoroughly).....

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"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Re:Looney Tunes by amiga3D · 2014-10-05 02:20 · Score: 2

Why does everything have to be about the two mafias. Can't we leave the fucking politics out of any discussion. What has damaged this country more than anything is the two mafias that alternate control in DC. We switch from tweedle-dee to tweedle-dum both with great promises but things only get worse while they tell us how much better off we are. The side out of power actually cheers as the side currently in power fucks the country up. They are happy because they know that when side A screws up side B will soon have it's chance to fuck things up. A plague on both your houses.

Re:Well.... by C0R1D4N · 2014-10-04 17:00 · Score: 3, Informative

Animaniacs should be considered E/I. To this day I can point out Lake Titicaca on a map if I have to.

Re:Cable channels killed it and the OTA stations by C0R1D4N · 2014-10-04 17:06 · Score: 2

It's so hard to believe they can make more off of infomercials. Cartoons had to have ten times their ratings easily. Even with parents usually just throwing ToonDisney/Nicktoons on and leaving it on all day nowadays.

Re:Real news by houstonbofh · 2014-10-04 17:06 · Score: 2

R.I.P., Saturday morning cartoons. I guess it's all real news for the kids of today...

You found real news on broadcast or cable television? When is it on, and what network or channel? I must view this beast, formally thought to be utterly extinct!

It is a reality show next season. They will take a CNN and a Fox newscaster and lock em in a cage until only one is left reporting.

Re:Cable channels killed it and the OTA stations by BancBoy · 2014-10-04 17:46 · Score: 2

Many cartoons WERE infomercials.

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Sad but good riddance by Virtucon · 2014-10-04 17:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

When I was growing up cartoons meant something. Like Daffy Duck getting his head blown off or the Rabbit outwitting the dumb hunter. Saturdays were filled with the Coyote and the limitless bounty afforded him by ACME for any device necessary to attempt at catching the Roadrunner. I always wondered who delivered out in the middle of the desert and why he got it so fast? Shit now most of what I've seen from the 70s and up were warmed over commercials that were more about marketing to kids than really having fun. Sure there were the "educational" shows that came along but those were few and far between; the rest being tripe not worth even the electricity used to watch them, much less the brain drain.

When I saw Daffy's head getting blown off "censored" now it made me sad really because you can't blow up a cartoon duck anymore? Where has my country gone. So goodbye Saturday Morning cartoons full of marketing shit and hello Hentai Anime.

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Re:Well.... by JustOK · 2014-10-04 19:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Scrappy Doo had a paw in the downfall too.

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Re:Rose Glasses by bspus · 2014-10-04 19:49 · Score: 2

"Road runner was entertaining, and I don't recall any overt racism or sexism, but it is just silly violence for the sake of violence and I think we can do better for our children." It is clearly slapstick violence, and I believe even kids can tell the difference. I understand the concerns but at some point we have to admit that children cannot be shielded from absolutely everything. At some point, overprotecting them can have other undesirable consequences and I have a feeling we are already very close (if not past) that point

Re:Rose Glasses by mrbester · 2014-10-04 19:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

So it was fine for you to watch and enjoy them as a child but not for a child today because you subscribe to the ridiculous "imitation" dogma? Are you a violent racist wife-beating asshole or just an asshole?

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Iron Curtain by SharpFang · 2014-10-04 20:04 · Score: 4, Interesting

If you think the cartoons from 70s were crap, that means the Iron Curtain worked well, "protecting" the west from any positive imagery from the Eastern Bloc.

You should really watch some toons made in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Soviet Union. Dozens of excellent, funny, well-animated toons that were friendly, didn't promote violence, and were fun to watch even for adults. Reksio, Wolf and Hare (Nu pogodi!), Krteek, and lots of other titles that would leave Hana Barbera in the dust and could easily compete with Disney's shorts - if only given a chance.

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Re:Rose Glasses by TuringTest · 2014-10-04 20:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

While I enjoyed those older cartoons as a child, now, as an adult I can totally see why they are no longer screening. They were rife with racism, violence, sexism and other crap that I wouldn't wan pumped directly into my child's brain.

On the other hand, you watched them and grew to know it as crap. Your children, not being exposed, will not learn to recognize it, and as adults they may be more likely to fall prey to it.

There's something to be said about playing with risky or shameful behaviors in safe environments - it's the natural way for learning to face the darkest aspects of life.

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Re:Rose Glasses by markass530 · 2014-10-04 20:55 · Score: 2

Perhaps if you removed the sand from your vajajay and then watched all those shows you might enjoy them a bit more

Re:Good. by ultranova · 2014-10-04 22:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

Let's face it, Saturday morning cartoons from the 60s to the 80s were 90% garbage.

90% of everything is garbage. It's just that the oceans of time wash it out, leaving only the gold nuggets. Of course, an actual ocean will also have the same effect, which is why anime became such a hit in the West.

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Re:Game of Throne by TheRaven64 · 2014-10-04 23:40 · Score: 2

I gave up part way through season 2. I think it's the only adaptation of a book where they've managed to tell the story more slowly than the novels. The casting was well done, but they really needed to work on the pace.

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Obligatory by Dogtanian · 2014-10-04 23:58 · Score: 3, Funny

If you think the cartoons from 70s were crap, that means the Iron Curtain worked well, "protecting" the west from any positive imagery from the Eastern Bloc. [..] You should really watch some toons made in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Soviet Union.

I dunno... I hear that "Worker and Parasite" didn't play too well with US audiences ;-)

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No more appointment TV by blackfeltfedora · 2014-10-05 00:13 · Score: 2

Saturday morning cartoons weren't killed by the internet, they were killed by the DVR. My kids only recenlty became aquainted with the concept of "you have to wait for them to show the next episode". Saturday mornings at our house are devoted to binge watching a week's worth of Pokemon, Gravity Falls, and Phineas & Pherb.

Re:Space Dandy is Japanese though. by Khyber · 2014-10-05 03:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

"On the other hand, as a modern (japanese) equivalent of Space Quest,"

Nope. SD is pretty much Cowboy BeBop with Excel Saga mixed in.

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Re:Good. by RevWaldo · 2014-10-05 06:13 · Score: 2

Of course my 90% figure was being generous. But really, what gold nuggets? Sure you may have some nostalgia for old episodes of Scooby-Doo or The Superfriends, until you actually go back and watch them and you realize that the makers figured that kids will watch any poorly-made crap they threw up on the screen. And sadly, they were right.

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The Era of Saturday Morning Cartoons Is Dead

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