OS X 10.10 Yosemite Review

An anonymous reader writes: With the release of OS X 10.10 Yosemite, Ars Technica has posted one of their extremely thorough reviews of the OS's new features and design changes. John Siracusa writes that Yosemite is particularly notable because it's the biggest step yet in Apple's efforts to bring OS X and iOS together — new technologies are now being added to Apple's two operating systems simultaneously. "The political and technical battles inherent in the former two-track development strategy for OS X and iOS left both products with uncomfortable feature disparities. Apple now correctly views this as damage and has set forth to repair it." Yosemite's look and feel has undergone significant changes as well, generally moving toward the flat and compact design present in iOS 7 & 8. Spotlight and the Notifications Center have gotten some needed improvements, as did many tab and toolbar interfaces.

Siracusa also takes a look a Swift, Apple's new programming language: "Swift is an attempt to create a low-level language with high-level syntax and semantics. It tackles the myth of the Sufficiently Smart Compiler by signing up to create that compiler as part of the language design process." He concludes: "Viewed in isolation, Yosemite provides a graphical refresh accompanied by a few interesting features and several new technologies whose benefits are mostly speculative, depending heavily on how eagerly they're adopted by third-party developers. But Apple no longer views the Mac in isolation, and neither should you. OS X is finally a full-fledged peer to iOS; all aspects of sibling rivalry have been banished."

Comments

Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, God, please don't let it be some kind of Windows 8 thing. Desktops should never, ever have Tiles

Re:Windows 8

[Stenchwarrior]

Nope, no Windows 8 tiles, thank Jeebus. I've been using it since an early DP release and have been fairly impressed with the look/feel compared to past versions. A little buggy at first but that was to be expected being an unreleased OS and all. Even that first copy I installed was better than any iteration of Windows 8, and I'm primarily a Windows user.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange. I have no problems with Windows 8. I assumed most people, being dumbasses who have no clue how to clean, organize, and customize their start menu and also relied on desktop full of program shortcuts to launch programs, would have hailed the Windows 8 Start Screen as a technological miracle.

Re:Windows 8

[BasilBrush]

Nope. The failed Microsoft experiment of the same GUI on desktop and mobile was not and will never be done by Apple. They are aligning technologies, not UIs.

Re:Windows 8

[Matheus]

Damn... you beat me to it.

M$ should sue for copying their idea!

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

M$ grumble grumble antitrust 2001...

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you ever get tired of talking like a juvenile underwear skidmark?

Re:Windows 8

[bigman2003]

It's not a failed experiment.

'Success' does not need to mean, "Everyone universally enjoys this XXXX".

I'm a Windows Phone user as well as a Windows 8 user. I like both of them. I like that they've combined them. It works very well for me.

The interface needs to be refined in order to appeal to more people, but that does not mean it is a failure. It just means that Windows 8 was the first iteration of something that could/should/can be very, very good.

Taking the first steps toward a goal is not failure- it's building a foundation.

Re:Windows 8

[BasilBrush]

Personal likes can be subjective. But the failure of Windows Phone & Tablets in the market and the need of Microsoft to backpedal on the desktop is objective, The same Windows UI everywhere failed. A failure is not a foundation. It could be a learning exercise from which they'll recover. But in no way was it not a failure.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

You're probably one of a dozen people outside of Redmond that believes this. I'm really not kidding.

A unified ecosystem for mobile and desktop and everything else is a grand idea but honestly Microsoft is the last company I'd trust to do it.

There is tremendous infighting inside the company. The company is literally structured like feudal ancient Japan where powerful warlords fight each other for power under the watch of an emperor. I don't believe for a second they could tie all their products together without stabbing each other in the back.

  Windows phone is a fine product in many regards, but Microsoft's behavior, history, and policies, and past actions have ensured that developers don't want to touch their "app store" with a 10 foot pole. I've used windows phones. They're great. Particularly for unskilled users that just want their smart phone to work. Leagues better than android in that regard, and a lot cheaper than an iphone. Today, though, it really is about apps and windows don't got 'em. Which is fucking awful because that means there is no software for their new grand platform.

And speaking of their new grand platform (Windows modern interface as they call it) - They forgot something important. It fucking sucks on anything that's not a tablet or a smart phone.. And yet they tried to forcefully shoehorn it in to their bread-and-butter windows desktop system. Again, nobody cares to develop apps for it because it's pretty crap. Why bother when it's just an annoying layer over the sytem that everyone already knows and loves?

What makes all of the above even more laughable is that Apple already knew all of the above. Interface modes for tablets, phones, laptops, and desktop are all very different and they never attempted to smash them all together in an awkward ham-fisted manner, exactly like Microsoft tried and failed to do.

Furthermore Microsoft has been trying to push touch screen/pen input windows for nearly 2 decades and it's never, ever, ever been anything than a failure in the general market, and lukewarm in specialized niches where it actually bring some benefit.

Apple has never attempted a touch screen on OSX because touch screens on desktops and laptops are fucking stupid. Full stop. End of story.

Re:Windows 8

[pubwvj]

"I'm a Windows Phone user"

WOW! Finally, I've 'met' one. According to the sales states there was someone who bought a Windows Phone but I didn't expect to actually make contact with you. Hey, how's it working out?

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Your skidmarks talk to you?
That sounds serious.

Re:Windows 8

[unixisc]

I too have no problems with Windows 8.... on my Lumia. On my laptop, however, it was such a bitch that I replaced it with PC-BSD

Re:Windows 8

[unixisc]

It's not a failed experiment.

'Success' does not need to mean, "Everyone universally enjoys this XXXX".

I'm a Windows Phone user as well as a Windows 8 user. I like both of them. I like that they've combined them. It works very well for me.

The interface needs to be refined in order to appeal to more people, but that does not mean it is a failure. It just means that Windows 8 was the first iteration of something that could/should/can be very, very good.

Taking the first steps toward a goal is not failure- it's building a foundation.

I own a Windows Phone as well. Right now, a Lumia 929 - the one from Verizon. It's great, as was the 520 when I had that.

Windows 8 on my Dell laptop, OTOH, was a pain. While typing, when the cursor would get near the right end of the screen, the charms bar would prop up, and there was no turning that off - even if I went into the desktop. Also, once I hit Start, I'd see the icons, but to discover all the installed apps that weren't showing up in the 'home' screen, I had to go south - something I accidentally discovered. I did try tweaking that thing, installing Classic Shell and so on, but the whole experience was really annoying. Finally, once I figured out how to install PC-BSD on it, I did it, wiping out Windows 8 from the whole thing altogether. After a few initial hiccups, PC-BSD now purrs like a kitten.

Another beef I had with that system - the native apps were something you now got from the app store, as opposed to the good old downloading it from a web site or inserting a DVD. This just felt too retarded. The other issue I had - if you have a Metro screen, why not have the possibility of multiple virtual desktops, particularly since the apps now insist on going fullscreen? That just didn't make sense - even in Classic shell, I'd be running, say IE, but if I went into Metro and invoked IE, it would go back there.

My point - the same interface on a touchless laptop and a phone and a tablet never made sense. On a phone, Windows 8 is just perfect, and the only thing lacking are some apps that I could use there, like ADP and Vonage. I don't mind games missing - I use that phone only for work. On a tablet too, Windows 8 is fine. On a touch laptop, it's at least usable, if less than ideal. If I have a 16" screen in front of me, the last thing I wanna do is touch it: even for my phone & tablet, I've put screen guards. But for touchless laptops, it absolutely sucks!

I am glad that Microsoft is finally bringing back the Windows 7 interface, at least in laptop mode. Windows 10 should ideally not take much time - they should just take Windows 8.0 (not 8.1), combine it with Windows 7 UI and give USERS the option of which interface they want when they start. Make the Windows 7 the default on laptops if users know no better, and make Windows 8 the default on tablets. And it's okay to have cute features like switching from one to the other, but allow people to turn that off if they like only one interface for everything.

Whichever it is

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

More like they are trying to rip off the Windows look and feel. Flattened graphics and Aero glass blurring...yeah, Microsoft did those first. They're also trying to rip off Microsoft's idea to unify their platforms.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft definitely has the best mobile UI out there. Fast, responsive, intuitive, light on hardware and not just a rehash of the same graphical interfaces we've seen for the past 40 years.

My dream mobile would be Windows Phone UI + Android-sized application library. If Microsoft starts making x86 based phones, that will be the end for iOS and Android because it instantly have the largest app library and would run everything that most people use.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

You could have installed Classic Shell in 2 minutes instead of installing an entire OS.

Re:Windows 8

[gumbi west]

I've met one too, in person. They worked for MS.

Re: Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

What about skilled users that just want their to work, dumbass? I expect all of the devices I purchase to work without a lot of hassle. Which is why I gave my Samsung Android phone back to AT&T and went back to my iPhone.

If somebody wants to keep fiddling with gadgets I'm glad there are options out there, but it's not what I want to do all the time. I spend 8-10 every weekday fiddling with technological gadgets and don't want to have to do it when I take a phone call or try to use Bluetooth music via my vehicles stereo system. Calling anything L337 just because it's a pain in the ass is redonculous.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you ever get tired of commenting as an anonymous coward? It's OK... hide in your dark corner and make the internets proud.

Re:Windows 8

[unixisc]

I did - and it did squat for my problem of the charms bar popping up everytime my cursor would get even near the right end of the screen. It was after that that I pulled the plug, deleted one entire OS and installed another.

Re:Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you didn't disable them. Classic Shell has an option to disable all hot corners. I'm surprised someone who uses BSD couldn't figure that out.

Re:Windows 8

[lsatenstein]

"I'm a Windows Phone user"

WOW! Finally, I've 'met' one. According to the sales states there was someone who bought a Windows Phone but I didn't expect to actually make contact with you. Hey, how's it working out?

Have one, and I also have access to an Android. For my needs, long battery life was the only criteria. In the end, I stick to the desktop for Slashdot, and mainly use the W phone for email, skype and some occasional browsing.

Re: Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

the point is you shouldn't have to install third party apps for this kind of stuff. don't you think it's pretty sad that one must install a third party app to disable these features.

Re: Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I? I haven't ever seen an OS that didn't require 3rd party software to get working right.

Re:Windows 8

[Matheus]

Oh my I have a fan! Too bad they are shy and remain anonymous... Only someone with a personal vendetta OR a true fanboi would get so worked up over that innocuous comment. Guess I hit a little too close to home.

Re:Windows 8

[registrar]

I'm on my second Windows Phone — $400 for a Lumia 925 (a while ago). I'd rather like an iPhone instead but they are just too expensive for the marginal benefit.

Re:Windows 8

[unixisc]

In the US? Here, an iPhone costs just about as much as a Lumia - from Verizon, I got a 5s a few months ago for $99 (on one of their deals) and a month ago, I added a line and got a Lumia Icon, for the same amount. If you are getting it from carriers, you're getting it at equal prices, depending on when. Other carriers, like AT&T, Sprint or T-Mobile might vary.

I won't describe the iPhone benefits as marginal. I do FaceTime with family outside the US - something I can't do on a Windows Phone (and no, Skype ain't the same thing). The iPhone also has plenty of important apps (not talking games here) that Windows Phone doesn't. Like my banking app, or the Time Warner Cable app that lets me check into my account, as well as access TWC hotspots in town. Or ADP, so that I can access my payroll account. Or Vonage Extensions, so that I can use the phone to make calls abroad. Also, whenever I go various places - malls, hotels, et al, I see them advertize apps for iPhone and sometimes both iPhone & Android, but rarely do I see Windows Phone on offer.

There's another issue w/ the Lumias - a lot of them are still on Windows Phone 8.0. This is certainly the case w/ Verizon - at the moment, I can't upgrade my phone to 8.1 until Verizon rolls that out (according to Microsoft), unless I decide to go w/ a developer's edition. I don't usually care about versions, but in 8.0, there is no way one can buy & download music the way one can with iTunes. The official way around that is in 8.1, where Music & Videos have been split, but that's not available on 8.0. While I do use a YouTube downloader to download music, there is no way to make playlists in the Music & Videos in 8.0. Result: I don't use the Lumia for music, while I do have a few playlists & songs in the iPhone. My only beef about the iPhone 5s now is that Apple Pay won't be available on it.

Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

From the summary:

OS X is finally a full-fledged peer to iOS; all aspects of sibling rivalry have been banished."

Excuse me, but the only way for OS X to become a "peer" to iOS would be for iOS to become a whole lot better (e.g. to gain better multitasking and multiuser support, the ability to freely install software without a walled garden, a command line, etc.) or for OS X to become a whole lot worse!

Re:Wait, what?

[_xeno_]

From what I can tell, Apple is going whole-hog in the "whole lot worse" category.

You know how people (rightly) shit on Microsoft for going the whole "let's bring Windows Phone to the desktop!" thing they did with Windows 8?

From what I can see of Yosemite, Apple is doing the same thing with Mac OS X. So congrats, Apple users, you can now experience the same joy that is the phone-ification of the desktop that Windows users got with Windows 8.

Re:Wait, what?

[PopeRatzo]

I'm old enough to remember when Mac OS was an operating system for getting things done. Creative things. Not an adjunct to consumption. Not just a social media tool.

Re:Wait, what?

[tibit]

OS X server, a $20 purchase, lets you manage iOS devices and install whatever apps you want on them. Yes, without having to obtain App Store blessing. I don't think that the walled garden concept can be reasonably still thought applicable. Given that you get a reasonable device management capability for $20, I'd tend to think of it as a bargain, actually.

Re:Wait, what?

[Kenshin]

I've been using Yosemite for a couple of months.

It's not turning into iOS. It's just working alongside iOS better. On the surface, de-glossification aside, it's more or less the same as Mavericks.

But of course, let's whip ourselves into a frenzy without even trying it out. This is Slashdot, of course.

Re:Wait, what?

[nine-times]

From what I can see of Yosemite, Apple is doing the same thing with Mac OS X.

Can you be more specific as to what you're referring to? The biggest difference in the UI is that they reskinned things and change the icons and whatnot. You might not like the changes, but it's hardly the same thing as Windows 8's problems. The only things I can think of that make it more like their mobile OS-- at least this is all I can think of off the top of my head:

1) They added "Launchpad", which was done a couple of versions ago and is completely optional. Remove it from the dock and you never have to see it again.
2) They expanded the functionality of the notification area, and I don't really see there being a lot of grounds for complaints
3) They have a controlled "App Store", which again, was added a few versions ago and is optional.
4) They added an application for Maps...? I guess this makes it more like a mobile device. Again, optional.
5) Their chat/messaging application has increased support for SMS messages, which is additional functionality, and at least sort of optional.

I'm not seeing the problem.

Re:Wait, what?

[bailey34]

Not sure that's correct. I think the apps you distribute via OS X Server to mobile devices have to be signed with a enterprise dev certificate, which will cost you $299/year

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

A toddler born today is old enough. Yosemite is no less powerful, no less useful, no less productive than any other version of Mac OS. You can argue about whether Apple's claims of it being the MOST ADVANCED OPERATING SYSTEM EVAR! are true, but your claims that it is just a social media / content consumption tool are patently false.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. An operating system never ever was used to create things. Applications perform that role. Apple has always been used in the fringe. First it was DTP because it was cheaper than SPARC, then is got traction with photo editing, and a low end tool for students doing video editing. That's it. Just about every Apple Mac in the home is a toy, and a browser. These days, it's a status symbol too. The fact there's a UNIX behind the scenes of the awful UI isn't even on the radar for such Mac users. It's a shiney machine with built in obsolescence to run tweetdeck and facebook games.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

If you look at Apple's profit statements, the iOS App Store is break-even for them and they're not pushing profitability in that area.

So I really don't think that's why they don't let users break down the walled garden. I think it's because the nature of modern computing, breaking down the walled garden also means breaking down things about iOS that make it so nice. Thread safety, sandboxing, etc kind of break when you've got free reign to run whatever you want on the phone.

Also, who would really want a command line on their *phone*? Are you upset that iOS doesn't support CP/M apps too?

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

Let me get this straight: after already having spent money to buy the iDevice itself, a user is required not only to spend more money to buy a Mac, but to then spend even more money on top of that (not to mention, the hassle) to replace the OS? So that even in the best-case scenario, a user with a $250 iPad Mini has to spend an additional $520 (for a Mac Mini + OS X Server) just to be free of the goddamn App Store?

Forgive me if I remain unconvinced.

And of course, let's not forget the fact that all of this is beside the point since providing a computer without the ability for it to be programmed is fundamentally unethical to begin with!

Re:Wait, what?

[Rhipf]

Again I say this is only right. People ragged on Windows 8 without using it too. There really isn't much difference between Windows 8 and Windows 7 (other than the flat look that I hate) once you install a Start Menu replacement (e.g. ClassicShell). It looks like Apple is doing the same thing Microsoft did but have the benefit of learning from Microsoft's mistakes. Apple is flattening the graphical elements of the OS but haven't included a touch style interface (Metro tiles) in their desktop OS (yet).
If people are ragging on Apples OS without even trying it I say that sounds about the same as happened with Microsoft and Windows 8.

Re:Wait, what?

[_xeno_]

They're making it possible to make and receive phone calls on the desktop.

According to the article, they've ported iOS-specific APIs back to the desktop, including things like their version of Androids Intents (that they call "extensions"). However, since they come from iOS, they only work with apps that are sold through the App Store.

They added the notifications pane from iOS (stolen from Android, natch) to the desktop. It's now literally identical, other than swiping in from the side rather than the top.

They're changing a bunch of apps to more closely mimic the cellphone UI. According to the review itself, this is resulting in UIs with excessive whitespace due to the lack of space on iOS devices compared to a desktop. (The examples the review uses are the maps app and Safari.)

So, yes, they're slowly iOS-ifying Mac OS X. I guess they learned they need to "boil the frog" from Microsoft: if they add the changes in slowly enough, people won't even notice their desktop OS is now slowly becoming a mobile OS.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not biased, are you?

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

The more content consumption "tools" that are bundled with the OS, and the more of them you have to interact with to get things done, the more the OS becomes a content consumption tool, itself. Sadly, Apple is slowly moving OSX in this direction. I still use it, it's still my OS of choice, but I'm not sure for how many more releases that will be the case.

Case in point, the removal of the "Software Updates" item from the Apple menu. Yes, the button simply launched the App Store, and you can get to Software Updates by clicking App Store, waiting for the Featured tab to start loading (the tabs are disabled until Featured starts loading, though it doesn't have to finish), and clicking the Updates button, but this used to be a one-step process that didn't attempt to expose the user to advertizing. Now it's a 3 step process, and one that may confuse some less attentive users who didn't pay enough attention in 10.7-10.9 to notice that Software Updates was just a tab in the App Store. It's, admittedly, a minor niggle, but it's one of many, and they are starting to add up.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just about every computer in the home, regardless of OS, is a toy and a browser. Except the ones that aren't. This has been true for pretty much ever. Well, OK, the browser part is fairly recent in my life time. Internet aside, my mom has uses her iPad the same way she uses her Windows PC which is the same way she has always used Windows which is the same way she was using her Commodore 64 back in the mid-80's. Some word processing here, some spreadsheets there, games, and now Internet browsing and email.

Similarly, I use my Macs the same way I used my Windows PCs before them which is the same way I was using the same Commodore 64 back in the mid-80's. A shit-ton of programming, some word processing here, some spreadsheets there, mix in some presentations, and a lot of Internet browsing and email. Also, I have one dedicated to music in the living room.

Re:Wait, what?

[leonbev]

This OS update is free for 10.8 and 10.9 users, no?

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

"There really isn't much difference between Windows 8 and Windows 7..."

Then you're in the same category you mentioned earlier. People who comment without having used it.

Clearly you haven't. That makes you a fuckwit. Congrats.

Re:Wait, what?

[nine-times]

including things like their version of Androids Intents (that they call "extensions")....notifications pane from iOS (stolen from Android, natch)...

Right, so you're upset that Apple is using plugins, extensions, and notifications because all of those things were invented by Android developers. Sure.

They're making it possible to make and receive phone calls on the desktop.

So they've added functionality. I don't' think anyone is complaining about Windows 8 for added functionality.

They're changing a bunch of apps to more closely mimic the cellphone UI. According to the review itself, this is resulting in UIs with excessive whitespace...

You might need to point that out in the review. I don't doubt what you're saying, I just need context, and skimming the review for a second, I didn't see anything specific about that.

Having used Yosemite for a while, I don't see there being a lot of extra unused space due to "mimicking the cellphone UI". It actually seems like, in a lot of cases (e.g. Safari), they've cut down on "wasted space" in a way that may have been inspired by the cellphone UI, but not in a way that sacrifices functionality. I definitely haven't had the experience of noticing that things are spaced out strangely as though it were optimizing OSX for touch interaction.

Mostly it seems like they just re-skinned it. The textures and colors are different, with almost the same spacing.

Re:Wait, what?

[ColdWetDog]

Boiling the frog may be a good analogy, although it suffers from a bit from having nothing to do with automobiles.

Apple, and 10.10 is going slower and is more nuanced than Microsoft and Windows 8. You have to change these things slowly, test some concepts, polish things - rather than just jump in and announced HI, I'M NEW, OH, YOUR NOT A TABLET? SORRY! (Metro, I'm trying NOT to look at you).

Clearly, everyone is trying for seamless integration of phones / tablets / desktops / clouds. Some good and some bad will come of this, of course. At least with 10.10, things are quite a bit more subtle and Apple has finally moved a few (just a few) degrees from 'my way or the highway' in that there is more customization of UI elements in 10.10 than has been seen in any version of OS X. You can still use an iPhone with a Windows desktop and and a Windows phone with OS X should you desire. The walled garden has a few open gates yet.

As to what will happen in the future, no one knows. Apple ain't saying and I really don't think Microsoft has any idea.....

Re:Wait, what?

[MachineShedFred]

You're wrong.

Apple did not strip the major sematics of the UI that their users have enjoyed for 14 years for something that makes absolutely no sense on the hardware you've loaded it on, in the name of "one common [shitty] experience."

Apple has not completely hidden settings and configuration options - they are all still where you expect them to be. In fact, they moved some that were completely in your face for no reason into System Preferences where they should have been 10 years ago (I'm looking at you, Dock Settings).

Apple still gives you a fully functional terminal with real shell options and built-in standard scripting languages. Perl, Ruby, Python, and Bash are all there ready to go. You can even paste into the terminal without touching the mouse!

This is nothing like Windows 8. This is actually better than what came before.

Re:Wait, what?

[ColdWetDog]

The usual user case for this scenario is a company making specialized applications for the iPhone. In which case, the roughly thousand dollars required to gain this functionality is just a sneeze, not even a sniffle. Just because it doesn't fit your particular fantasy (and it doesn't appear you'd be interested in iOS at any price) doesn't mean it's not priced correctly.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

Also, who would really want a command line on their *phone*?

I was using "command line" as a proxy for "scripting." An iOS version of Automator might be good enough*, but of course even Automator would include a call-a-shell-script Action, so it amounts to the same thing.

If you can't understand why scripting is important, then you don't understand what computers are to begin with (and an iPhone is a computer; it just happens to have a modem, microphone and speaker too).

(* On a Mac, Automator scripts are more cumbersome to use for ad-hoc things than the command line, but maybe in the absence of a physical keyboard the situation would be reversed.)

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It indeed did used to be a one step process - now it's a 0 step process. It happens automatically, and notifies you.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

You might need spectacles. Yosemite GUI is nothing like iOS8.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It still is.

Sincerely,

Someone who just helped launch an investment platform on the Internet that did more than $1M in business it's first day, coded and deployed 100% with Mac; served with Ubuntu.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

once you install a Start Menu replacement (e.g. ClassicShell)

In other words it's only different if you change the new UI for the old one.

It looks like Apple is doing the same thing

Not even slightly. There's no new UI that is like iOS, nor any "classic" UI to go back to.

Apple is flattening the graphical elements of the OS

Yes they are doing that. But that isn't enough to make OSX look anything like iOS.

Re: Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It started years ago with getting rid of things like Spaces in favor of an iPad linear arrangement of screens, and NO options for a 2D arrangement. Your Pro computer is slowly becoming an iToy

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet tens of millions don't give a shit about your philosophy, because they were able to buy a device that does what they want it to, how they want it to.

It's perfectly possible for someone to be selling a product that doesn't have 100% of the world's population in their target demographic. You are outside Apple's. Get over it already.

Re:Wait, what?

[AmiMoJo]

Thread safety, sandboxing, etc kind of break when you've got free reign to run whatever you want on the phone.

What on earth are you on about? Android apps have sandboxing and are just as safe as iOS ones, in that they can't access anything they don't have permission to, or other process' memory, or random parts of the filesystem etc. The freedom Android brings does not compromise application security.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

The App Store icon in the Dock displays a numbered badge when there are any updates - OS or App Store apps. When there as OS updates, you get a popup-notification.

These are both far superior then having to remember to check Software Updates from time to time, as in days of yore. (And it's several versions ago that that was the primary update point.)

Removing obsolete menu items is a good thing.

Re:Wait, what?

[kuzb]

I really don't get the start menu love. The search feature is actually very quick and accurate once you start using it. Perhaps I'm not like other people, but when I go to run a program I already know what I want to run so it's easier to just start typing the name of the program than it is to navigate some legendary list of programs.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

Mac App Store top paid apps:
7. Pixelmator.
9. Final Cut Pro.

Most of the rest of the top 10 are utilities, used by everyone, creatives and consumers.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd love to play the old CP/M version of trek on my iThing. Now that you mention it, I think I will be sad until someone comes out with it...

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

And of course, let's not forget the fact that all of this is beside the point since providing a computer without the ability for it to be programmed is fundamentally unethical to begin with!

That would be pretty bizarre ethics. Citation? (I'm guessing RMS. Maybe ESR?)

I don't remember much of a fuss over video game consoles. (Although obviously fringe figures like the aforesaid have been wearing hair-shirts for decades.)

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just making stuff up. It is nothing like Windows 8. I have both. All Yosemite has done is a flatter UI which I personally think looks better and added a lot of synchronization with iOS. Being able to answer a text or call from my computer is a nice feature. Using family sharing and hotspot is a nice feature. Being able to edit or view my synchronized calendar/reminders/notes/contacts/photos (most of which existed in mavericks) is positive. I really enjoy the integration. What Windows has done is try to stick a tablet interface on a desktop and make it default. THAT is annoying. I don't wan't to suddenly switch between desktop mode and tablet mode when I open a photo or PDF. I don't want a stupid charms bar. Dragging a window down from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen to close it when you don't even have a touch screen doesn't make sense. You could try to argue launchpad is IOS-like but it is very different than the Windows way of doing things. It opens desktop applications. Yosemite doesn't have different modes.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The necessary foundation to make scripting work would break process and application isolation.

Making portable OSes more and more like desktop OSes would make them worse, not better.

I've yet looked at my phone and went, "Gee, I wish I could just do this with curl instead of safari."

The only thing that would make iOS even better would be some way to add media from inside apps. Apps can already write to the available movies. Just wish they could add podcasts and music.

(Which is odd because movies are DRMed on the iTunes store, and music is not; but audio is the one place they won't let you fiddle with)

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

Yes.

But once upon a time Apple used to ship a specific server OS called, predictably, OSX Server.

Nowadays they don't create two seperate OS packages, they use only one, but they additionally sell a bunch of admin tools which you can install on top of the ordinary OSX. This package is called OSX Server and sells for $20.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Oh? But it also displays... well, I'm not entirely sure what it's displaying, as I go straight to the Updates tab...

This morning, I did see the "1 new" bubble next to it. I had 3 software updates, those are now installed, no reboot required, and I still see the "1 new" bubble.

Let me go check on that before I finish writing this post...

OH! It wanted me to let the Featured tab finish loading! YAY! Now it's gone!

NOT acceptable! Notifying me because there is some new featured software you want me to see is not acceptable on an OS that it not primarily intended as a content consumption system; yet, that's exactly what this was. In this case, it was Apple notifying me that OSX Yosemite is currently featured, and I'm willing to accept that as I'm still running the beta and do need to install that; however, it's not a software update, it wasn't (and still is not) on the Updates tab, it's an advertizement, and I don't need to be notified of those.

If this is the only instance where they pop the "1 new" bubble up for an ad, whatever, that's actually useful, that's fine, I'll let it go. If I see it again, Yosemite is the last version of OSX I use; Ubuntu still runs great on a MacBook Pro.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

If you can't understand why scripting is important, then you don't understand what computers are to begin with (and an iPhone is a computer; it just happens to have a modem, microphone and speaker too).

You seem to have got a warped idea of what a smartphone is. Just because it has a CPU does not make it a desktop substitute. There's no mandate for end user programability. And there's no demand for it in a mobile phone either. A few hackers who are stuck in the 1970s Unix concept of computing does not make a market for a mainstream device. Essentially no one buys a phone for scripting or CLI. And even if every single person on Slashdot said they do, that still wouldn't make it a market.

A phone is a communicator. Not a desktop substitute.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still trying to figure out what content consumption tools you people are talking about. You really don't use Mac OS, do you? I'm looking at the list of applications on my clean install of Yosemite. The following content consumption applications are installed: Safari, iTunes, iBooks, App Store.

Safari? Every OS comes with a browser.

iTunes has been around for how long? Do I have to interact with it? No. I use it to play podcasts and streams while I work, but I don't have to and can choose to easily ignore its very existence because I don't need it for anything.

iBooks is new since Mavericks. Do I have to interact with it? No. Never have, never will. I don't ever know its there unless I look at the list of applications.

App Store. Relatively new, but as others have said, you can make App Updates automatic. Otherwise, oh noes, I have to click another tab. I mean, if, over the course of 14 years, removing one menu item and making users click another tab is your definition of slowly making it a content consumption OS, then I guess I can't argue with you.

Re:Wait, what?

[angel'o'sphere]

Did you look at the screen shots of Maverick?
It is even more ugly than iOS 7/iOS 8.
Of course it looks like iOS ... even the icons are now the same!

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

That's only if you don't root. If you do however, you can do whatever the hell you want. Which is kind of dangerous from a consumer device standpoint.

I err with Apple on this one. I don't think that iOS should be giving you the gun in which to shoot your own foot with. Especially on the phone.

Re:Wait, what?

[MikeMo]

So, you're wanting to build and compile code on your phone? Or an iPad mini? If so, you're just nuts. You want to compile and build on the computer that's in your microwave? It's not unreasonable to require a computer to build code for such devices, it's not unreasonable for Apple to require that computer to be an Apple computer, and it is not unreasonable to charge $20 for the ability to distribute that code to as many users as you wish.

As for the "ethics", you're just flat making that issue up for the rest of the world.

Re:Wait, what?

[MikeMo]

It's free for anyone running 10.6.8 or better. You might have to go through a few upgrades to get there (I haven't looked) but all the OS's between here and there have been free.

Re:Wait, what?

[MikeMo]

Right, they're just as safe, that's why there are so few malware apps for Andriod.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

The necessary foundation to make scripting work would break process and application isolation.

BS. OS X applications prove this isn't true. The point is not to be able to twiddle with an application's state arbitrarily; the point is for the application to expose a scripting API.

I've yet looked at my phone and went, "Gee, I wish I could just do this with curl instead of safari."

You've never looked at your phone and went, "Gee, I wish I could script the damn captive portal to this Wi-Fi hotspot so I wouldn't have to log in manually anymore?" Or, "Gee, I wish I could make my phone automatically do X upon condition Y" (where X might be "set the ringer to vibrate" and Y might be "when I arrive at work")?

Of course, those are simple examples, which Apple programmers could conceivably think of and write an ad-hoc solution for. But Apple's never going to write a solution for anything sufficiently unusual or personal; scripting is the only thing flexible enough to accomplish that.

Re:Wait, what?

[drinkypoo]

If you look at Apple's profit statements, the iOS App Store is break-even for them and they're not pushing profitability in that area.

So I really don't think that's why they don't let users break down the walled garden.

Uh, what? The App Store feeds Apple lock-in, and vice versa.

Also, who would really want a command line on their *phone*?

Thousands of Android users could be wrong, but they aren't. It's super-nice to have access to the command line on occasion. Of course, most Apple users don't know what to do with theirs, so I guess your point stands... for Apple users.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you talking about? You are seriously going to claim an OS is nothing but a content consumption tool and abandon it because it notified you of the official release of the beta OS you are running? Seriously?

Christ, you sound like my salesmen that claim they can't sell our powerful, industry leading software in Japan because there is a single graph that uses red and red reminds Japanese doctors of blood and offends them.

Re:Wait, what?

[drinkypoo]

That's only if you don't root. If you do however, you can do whatever the hell you want. Which is kind of dangerous from a consumer device standpoint.

Oh, it's dangerous to use my device as I choose? Regardless, rooting is not the all-or-nothing proposition that you think it is. Most users will get root via CM, and the Superuser installed with CM prompts you before elevating privileges. So while it's true that I can do whatever the hell I want with my phone because it's rooted, that is irrelevant, as usual. What is relevant is what apps can do, and without my permission, the answer is nothing they couldn't do without root.

Your argument is that you shouldn't be allowed to use a screwdriver as anything else (say, to open a paint tin) because if you can use it as anything else, you can also stab people with it, possibly yourself. But a screwdriver that can't do those things wouldn't be a very good screwdriver, because it would require all kinds of safety features that would prevent you from using it for its design purpose. That doesn't actually describe iOS, though, which was designed to suck money out of suckers' wallets through Microsoftian vendor lock-in. It is working as designed when it prevents you from running any app you want.

Re:Wait, what?

[drinkypoo]

The usual user case for this scenario is a company making specialized applications for the iPhone.

But that's not what we're talking about, which means your entire comment amounts to prevarication. You're moving the goalposts.

Just because it doesn't fit your particular fantasy doesn't mean it's not priced correctly.

It's not a fantasy to believe that Android users run unapproved applications. It's a fact. It's therefore not just provable but proven that iOS prevents potential users from using the device in a way in which they would like to do.

(and it doesn't appear you'd be interested in iOS at any price)

With these restrictions, you'd have to be a masochist, and not in a fun way.

Re:Wait, what?

[angel'o'sphere]

If you want to program on an iPad download/install one of the many programming environments and stop bitching.

The iPad is not marketed as a 'computer' every one knows that. The fact that it is not easy to. 'compute' directly on it is well known.

Take it or leave it.

To install your 'own' software you only need a 'normal' developer account, to sign the software. An Enterprise account is not needed, AFAIK the distinction between OS X Server and OS X does no longer exist since 10.7.

And I don't get your bitching anyway. If you want a nice device to hack on buy a Nook or even more a Kobo, the later one even runs a more or less standard _linux_

However you can not connect your bluetooth keyboard to a Kobo/Nook.

So: get an android device and be done with it. The i
ad I have right now is my last one as well, the fact that it does not mount as an USB drive on my Mac basically gave it the cupe de grace over the years ... being forced to use iTunes simple pisses me off.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

So, you're wanting to build and compile code on your phone? Or an iPad mini? If so, you're just nuts.

Why not? I was able to compile QBasic code on a 286; surely a smartphone should be at least as capable. The only important thing my 286 had that an iPhone does not is a physical keyboard, and Bluetooth (or a drag-and-drop graphical development environment, like Apple's own Automator) solves that problem.

More to the point, I'm not sure where you're getting this whole "build and compile" idea -- I wouldn't be planning to develop some huge application on the phone (although I see no need to restrict someone from doing so); I just want to be able to write scripts to glue stuff together. Stuff like "when my GPS says I'm at location X and app A is in state Y, tell app B to do action Z." Is that too much to ask? I don't think so.

As for the "ethics", you're just flat making that issue up for the rest of the world.

The purpose of a computer -- as opposed to some other tool -- is that it has the flexibility (by being programmed) to do many different things, including things conceived of by nobody but the user. A computer that can't be programmed is fundamentally not fit for purpose. Apple is selling devices that they have intentionally broken.

Re:Wait, what?

[amiga3D]

I still open a shell and type the program's name. Old habits.....

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Both are flat and ugly... Bet they wouldn't have dared ruining both OS's if steve jobs was alive. Who wants to buy an ugly/plain jane osx?

Re:Wait, what?

[AmiMoJo]

Malware apps require you to side load and then agree to let the app rape you with permissions. Even if you are that monumentally stupid the app can still only act within the bounds of the sandbox and allowed permissions, unless you also root your device and then grant that app root permissions.

Re:Wait, what?

[berj]

The purpose of a computer -- as opposed to some other tool -- is that it has the flexibility (by being programmed) to do many different things, including things conceived of by nobody but the user. A computer that can't be programmed is fundamentally not fit for purpose. Apple is selling devices that they have intentionally broken.

So that's the *purpose* of every single computer you own? Bully for you. That is not the purpose of every single computer *I* own. And I guarantee you it's not the purpose of every single computer most people own. What's more your statement is false on its face. iPads, etc *can* be programmed -- by anyone with the skill and tools to do so. You just need specific hardware and software and services in order to do so. Just because you're not willing to tool up for the task doesn't make it Apple's problem. It's your problem and nobody else's. I'm sure there are many tasks I can't make my iPad do even with all the effort and knowledge in the world.. but hey.. I can't make my car fly like and aeroplane either. That's life.

Re:Wait, what?

[mlts]

Other than the flat UI, I've been using it as a beta for a few months now. Not much really different from previous releases except some new gewgaws under the hood and some better SeatBelt like security policies. If you have debug mode in your Mac's NVRAM set, there are a few new things like a cache that gets rebuilt on bootup.

Couple new features, a new coat of paint. For the cost of the upgrade ($0), I cannot complain, and I'm pretty sure it brings to the table a number of security updates as well.

As for Windows 8, that also is a solved problem. Even without Classic Shell, it is not hard to get around.

Now, if I get a version of OS X that only allowed signed executables, didn't have a command line (or didn't have sudo/root access), wouldn't allow ssh-ing in, only allowed one program to run at a time, there is much higher chance that I booted up System 6.x on my Mac SE than OS X's userland being absolutely gutted.

Re: Wait, what?

[Just Some Guy]

I mourned Spaces for about a day until I started actually playing with Mission Control, with the goal of Trying Things Their Way. I now like MC much better than I ever liked Spaces. It works like I'd expect it to without any of Spaces's dumbnesses.

Re:Wait, what?

[MikeMo]

I'm sure the phone is powerful enough to compile, I just can't imagine trying to actually do it. Further, I suspect you are somewhat forgetting that this is really a phone, an appliance, and not really a computer, even though it has one inside of it - just like a microwave.

Can you write scripts like that on anything? A script that "knows" the state of another app? ( a real question, not a troll. ) It sounds like you want something similar to Applescript, which allows you to write a script which actually launches whatever apps, invokes the methods exposed by the app via the script library, and then does something else, no?

If so, I think the reason Apple excludes such a thing is twofold: one, sandboxing and security is difficult with such a beast, and two, .0001% of their customer base wants such a thing. Heck, it's almost dead on the Mac. It would be pretty awesome, though!

As for ethics, they haven't excluded this because they secretly have a heart of cold iron and a desire to hurt, they've done it just because it isn't desired sufficiently.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

But why can't it be a desktop substitute? It's just as powerful as desktops of 10 years ago.

It's not about the scope of what a phone is supposed to be... it's fine we all understand that. The problem is that iOS *already has UNIX and a commandline underneath* but it is not exposed to even those few hackers "stuck in the 1970's" who would like to use such functionality.

The issue is not what a smartphone is... People can have whatever idea of a smartphone they would like.. The issue is software freedom. You don't want to use your phone like a desktop? Fine. Most people wouldn't want to either. But why make it artifically and legally impossible?

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

NOT acceptable! Notifying me because there is some new featured software you want me to see

It doesn't do that. It only notifies you of actual updates to software you already have. If you were running the beta of Yosemite, that will be why you got it. I didn't have the beta, and I didn't get that badge. It's perfectly reasonable to nudge you off the beta and on to the release. The beta is not supported now that there's a release version.

The App Store app does have a big banner advertising Yosemite within it. But that doesn't cause an icon badge for me.

Re:Wait, what?

[jimbo]

What is this Apple lock-in? I just replaced my iPhone 4 with a Moto G, it was no problem to move over my Google mail/calendar/contacts from the iPhone and the Moto G run the same apps: Skype, Dropbox, Boxcryptor Classic, etc. etc. I was set up exactly the same in an hour.

My App store investment over three years amounts to approximately $20 but if I'd spent those on Android Apps I wouldn't be able to move those assets to Apple or Microsoft phones either.

Incidentally today I'm replacing my iPad 2 with an iPad Air 2 - yeah I'm equally happy with iOS/Android. I'm not religious in either direction, I'm too old for that shit and ended it after the great OS/2 flame wars, these are all for profit companies with the same agenda; getting my money.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

not really? There's IFTTT and all sorts of apps that'll automate based on geofencing. You can tell siri to set up various tasks for you based on geofencing too...

But having a script trigger when a captive portal comes up would mean the script would have to know what's going on in the browser thread when the capture portal detection runs. Plus it's super fiddly and awful UX.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Your analogy is completely wrong.

By "dangerous" I mean, "How badly will this go wrong if I shoot myself in the foot?"

I'm not saying you shouldn't use a screwdriver to pry open paint cans and used to drive screws. I'm saying you shouldn't use a nail gun as a TV remote.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Well bully for you. If it was a software update, why was it not listed in my Updates tab? And why did it go away when I let the Featured tab load into view? I haven't installed (or even downloaded) it yet; I'll do that this evening, when I'm not trying to work.

Let me reiterate: It was there before I installed updates (indicating 1 new item, while there were 3 updates). I installed all available updates. It was still there. I viewed the Featured tab. It went away. There was absolutely zero interaction between the Updates tab and that notification (and, in fact, there was no notification of the available updates, at all, until I manually navigated to them), but there certainly was interaction between that notification and the Featured (e.g. ads) tab.

It may have been triggered by me running the Yosemite beta, but it was a notification of an ad. Period.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Oh! It's BACK! Clicked it again, checked updates, none. Clicked over to Featured, it's gone again. What's interesting is that, yes, I did download Yosemite after the "1 new" bubble disappeared, so now, at this point, my download has been recorded by the App Store. I haven't installed it yet (as I said, I'll be doing that this evening, on my own time), but I've certainly interacted with it by now. Yet there's the notification again; and it disappeared again as soon as I viewed the Featured tab.

Go ahead, install Yosemite, then get back to me regarding this.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Wow, a triple post... rare for me, but I just closed App Store and... the bubble is *back*.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

No, I'm claiming that it's becoming that. I'm still using it; if it were only a consumption tool, I would not be. Am I not allowed to voice my dissent and attempt to convince a company that I respect to change direction before they lose me as a customer?

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

There's IFTTT and all sorts of apps that'll automate based on geofencing.

Okay, great. Now what if I want to automate based on something other than "geofencing?" What if I want to do it based on receiving a text message? Or when I turn the device in a particular orientation? Or based on the ambient light level? Or based on some arbitrary event generated by an arbitrary third-party app? Anything flexible enough to handle all those cases turns into a scripting environment.

But having a script trigger when a captive portal comes up would mean the script would have to know what's going on in the browser thread when the capture portal detection runs

Indeed it would, which is why it would be impossible for Apple to code a solution. Instead, the only way to solve the problem is for the user himself to write a script to handle the particular captive portal he cares about, which is exactly why scripting is required.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Subtle changes to the psychology of the interface to direct you, more frequently, to places where you can give them more of your money. Plus, I now have a persistent notification of "1 new" in my Apple menu, next to the App Store menu entry. If I launch App Store and click off of the Featured tab before its content loads, the notification remains; if I click over to Featured (you know, where they advertize stuff), it disappears. Until I close App Store, then it pops right back up.

Yeah, that's OSX becoming more productivity oriented and less consumption oriented, alright.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

Further, I suspect you are somewhat forgetting that this is really a phone, an appliance, and not really a computer, even though it has one inside of it - just like a microwave.

On the contrary, I am explicitly rejecting the notion that it's "not really a computer!"

Can you write scripts like that on anything? A script that "knows" the state of another app? ( a real question, not a troll. )It sounds like you want something similar to Applescript, which allows you to write a script which actually launches whatever apps, invokes the methods exposed by the app via the script library, and then does something else, no?

Yes, Applescript (or even Automator) is pretty much the minimum of what I'm asking for (preferably including shell script Actions). Being able to write something that compiles to a native executable would be even better, but Automator would be the minimum.

If so, I think the reason Apple excludes such a thing is twofold: one, sandboxing and security is difficult with such a beast, and two, .0001% of their customer base wants such a thing. Heck, it's almost dead on the Mac. It would be pretty awesome, though!

I don't particularly care "why" Apple chose to rip out that functionality; I think it is wrong of them to have done so. Divorcing owning a computer from being able to program it is dangerous because it enables a "Right to Read" scenario.

For many people (especially in developing countries) a "smartphone" is the closest thing to a computer they'll ever have for the foreseeable future. I do not want an entire generation of people growing up thinking it's "okay" for some corporation to tell them what they are "allowed" to do with their own damn property!

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The browser would have to trigger the script somehow, the script would have to read the contents of the browser, etc. etc.

You can probably find a scriptable browser in the App store, but I'm shocked you can't understand why this isn't a priority for Apple.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

Including things like their version of Androids Intents (that they call "extensions")....notifications pane from iOS (stolen from Android, natch)...

Right, so you're upset that Apple is using plugins, extensions, and notifications because all of those things were invented by Android developers. Sure.

You seem to have "accidentally" forgotten to quote the objectionable part:

However, since they come from iOS, they ["extensions"] only work with apps that are sold through the App Store.

Anything that "only works with... the App Store" (except maybe for updating the OS itself and first-party applications) is a problem, because it's a step towards locking out anything that circumvents the App Store.

Re:Wait, what?

[JWW]

You can get everything that is in server and run it yourself on regular OS X and likely in a more flexible and customizable fashion.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Uh, even if you're free to side load, you can't bring your apps with you to other OSes because other OSes do not support Cocoa Touch and other iOS libraries.

You're still going to have to hope there's ports of your software on other platforms. And if it is written using frameworks that are easily portable, the chances of finding a port are very very high.

If your applications do not support exporting data to other devices, this is not Apple's fault. Applications can export their own data any number of ways(Cloud services, direct bluetooth/wifi file transfer, connect via iTunes and export).

So I'm really not sure what you mean by lock-in then.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

The browser would have to trigger the script somehow, the script would have to read the contents of the browser, etc. etc.

No, you'd just write a shell script to listen for the "network joined" event (or maybe the "captive portal found" event -- Android has the ability to detect captive portals; I assume iOS does too) then construct (a priori, from looking at the captive portal's source code yourself) an appropriate HTTP POST command and pipe it to a tool like curl or wget to send it.

You can probably find a scriptable browser in the App store

Not if it uses an HTML rendering engine other than Webkit!

I'm shocked you can't understand why this isn't a priority for Apple.

Oh, I understand, all right: I understand that scripting was preexisting functionality (from iOS's UNIX heritage) that Apple made a conscious, deliberate effort to remove. I understand that they did so specifically in order to give themselves more control at the expense of the user. The issue is not that I don't understand; the issue is that I fundamentally and vehemently disagree.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Also, who would really want a command line on their *phone*? Are you upset that iOS doesn't support CP/M apps too?"

Any sysadmin for starters.

And I just because, because.. because fuck you. Because I can and you can't with your iOS. I rather run Linux based operating systems where I have much more control over my devices than iSheeps (Jolla + Sailfish 3).

Re:Wait, what?

[PopeRatzo]

Yosemite is no less powerful, no less useful, no less productive than any other version of Mac OS.

So why is the Apple hegemony over production in creative environments going away?

Why are an increasing number of shops in creative fields no longer Apple-only?

Re:Wait, what?

[MouseR]

Shhh... shhh... let him do his thing. He likes buying pre-made block components and assemble them into a tin box using a free open source software so he can but never will change.

If that's the level of accomplishment one looks for, let them have it.

Re:Wait, what?

[Noah Haders]

i'm so sorry for your horrible affliction of bubbles. please consider moving to the mountains.

Re:Wait, what?

[Noah Haders]

let's flip this bitch. now with a new mac you get all of the mac productivity apps (keynote, pages, numbers) for free. These are new productivity tools for your productivity box with a bubble!

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, fuck pragmatism and getting shit done, I just want my bumpy colourful window decorations back so I can lick them!

And bring back the pinstripes too, fuckers!

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Apple decided to move Final Cut away from being a pro tool to being more of a prosumer tool which sent editors to Premiere, Avid, etc. They decided to drop Aperture sending photographers to Lightroom. It's likely that Logic Pro and Garage Band will one day merge into some prosumer middle ground like Final Cut. They never had a Mac-only answer to Photoshop. So, with all of the other options out there for the pro video / sound / photo editor that are cross platform, yes, there are fewer Mac-only shops.

How is any of that related to the OS?

Re:Wait, what?

[Darinbob]

App store feels less optional over time. You can't officially get xcode without it, even xcode command line tools (make, etc) required app store until an outcry and then they provided an unadvertised side channel to get it. Software update is tied to store though you don't need an ID. In Yosemite the software update menu item is gone altogether and presumably you have to at least open up app store to get to it (though if you don't use any Apple applications it would only be for os updates).

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

That's great, if you need to put together a report that will only be shared in paper form, or give a presentation; not so awesome when you have to work with the outside world, especially in business, wherein we, Mac users, are the majority.

Need to make changes to that Excel spreadsheet that was sent to you by Jan in accounting? Great, import it, make your changes... now what? Oh, you can export it, no problem. Awesome!

Wait, there were expressions and macros in that sheet? Well... there were. How much productivity is lost when Jan has to either manually pick out your changes and merge them with her original, which you didn't screw up by importing and exporting it, or by manually re-inserting the expressions and macros?

For an average home user or student (though, some professors insist on MS Word format for reports and essays), Keynote, Pages, and Numbers are more than sufficient. The minute they need to interact with business, though, they're a hindrance; it doesn't look good when your vendor (or, worse, your client) sends your document back to you because they can't open it because you used software that has roughly 0.5% market share and insists on a proprietary format. Sure, you could send them a PDF; if that's a workable solution, you could also print it for them, but it's useless if you'll be exchanging the same document, each iterating your own changes to it.

Guess which side of the fence I fall on? Hint: Pages is useless to me. It's also not free on my 2011 MacBook Pro, since the machine didn't ship with Mavericks or later.

Re:Wait, what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I understand that scripting was preexisting functionality (from iOS's UNIX heritage) that Apple made a conscious, deliberate effort to remove

Remove? If you an open up a shell via jailbreaking, you have access to all kinds of scripting. They just don't think it's in the user's best interest to have access to a shell.

Give themselves more control at the expense of the user

right. because that's always the best UX decision

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

It's indirectly related, but related nonetheless. An OS derives its functionality from its tools and applications; when it loses those tools and applications, or they lose functionality, the OS loses that functionality, as well. It's a long and slow process, as older software will often remain functional for as long as the OS supports it and an old version of the OS can remain functional for as long as the hardware running it still operates, but if you're making your living on the back of a given piece of software, you want it supported, and you want it running on a supported OS and on hardware that you can easily, cheaply, and most importantly, quickly replace if it fails.

Some of us see the change of course as it's happening, others don't see it until they've been taken too far off course to recover. Fortunately for the latter group, those of us in the former group know to speak up and call for a course correction before things get to that point. You're welcome.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

You sure seem to have a hardon for me today. Sorry, I'm already taken.

Re:Wait, what?

[NoMaster]

Thousands of Android users could be wrong, but they aren't.

Maybe they're not, but thousands of Android users are irrelevant .

Over 260 million Android devices shipped last year alone. Even being charitable and allowing that you really meant to say "tens of thousands", your "thousands of Android users" represent much less than 1% of Android devices shipped in a single year.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Having four Macs in continuous use, I have never seen the App Store put a badge over the Featured page to make me go to it. In fact, it didn't even notify me of the official Yosemite release like you are claiming. I had Yosemite 14A388a running on two of them, and was a little annoyed this morning that I had to actually go to the Featured page, click on Yosemite, and say "Yes, I really do want to download this even though I have 10.10 installed" to get 14A389 installed. Because the App Store recognized that I already had Yosemite installed and prompted me to confirm that I really wanted to go through with the download and since I have never seen it before, I actually doubt your Feature page badge story.

Oh, and on the newest one still running Mavericks, I went to Software Update to skip the Featured page, and lo! No bubble on the Featured page.

But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that this is something new to Yosemite, that my experience is different, and that everyone else is experiencing it but are not on the Internet complaining about (tried many different variations of searches on Google).

I included the App Store above for your benefit. I actually don't even consider it content consumption. Buying music, books, movies, magazines, and staring at Facetweetergram is content consumption. The App Store isn't that. It isn't content consumption to buy productivity applications, educational software, business tools, finance tools, health and fitness tools, development tools, communication tools, reference materials, graphics / design tools, etc. Can you buy a Facetweetergram client, yes, but no one is making you.

And, as far as I can tell, no one is even making you go into the App Store at all. If Apple was really trying to force you into the App Store, somehow I doubt they would have added auto-update so that the OS can update itself and your apps without you ever going into the App Store. In fact, I rarely open the App Store itself because I never see a badge on it and still haven't see a badge on it.

I'll write your username down, though. When I do see a badge on the Featured page for some random thing other than a new OS X version, I'll shoot you a message and admit I'm wrong.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

this is what I'm talking about. It's in the Apple menu (like I said), not over the App Store icon. Interestingly, it hung around this time, just long enough for me to snap the screenshot, then disappeared, this time without me having to launch App Store and view the Featured tab. Of course, now that I've written that, the bubble is back again...

Of course, despite this notification bubble in the menu, there are no updates available, yet I still see the bubble until I click the Featured tab.

Of course, it comes back once I close App Store.

So, it's not a software update, it goes away when I view the Featured tab (and stays gone as I view other tabs), and it comes back when I close App Store. Perhaps it's reminding me I need to Download Yosemite? Nope. It'll let me download it, which I've already done. And you just saw what my updates tab looks like; can you please, because I'm clearly missing it, point out how I can, to quote the App Store dialog, "Use the Updates page to install the 10.10 update"?

Maybe this is just a bug, maybe I'll find out this evening after I install the 10.10 release, but it sure looks intentional.

For reference: System Version: OS X 10.10 (14A388b)

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Gah... I re-shot that first screenshot because I had censored my name from it, before taking the time to realize that it's trivial to google my /. username and find my real name anyway. In my haste to get this post out, I didn't notice that the damn bubble is actually missing from that shot, so here's the original. And, of course, as soon as I typed that, the bubble is back.

I'll follow up after I install the final this evening. I'd really like to believe Apple isn't doing something so retarded and I'm just experiencing an oddity; time will tell.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple made a business decision based on the fact that the markets for its pro tools are dominated by awesome pro tools that run on Windows and Mac OS. Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, NewTek, and the like have that shit locked up. On the other hand, they dropped the price of a single Final Cut Pro license by $700 and added back a lot of the features that were initially missing after the FCPX overhaul. The initial FCPX kerfuffle made a lot of news, but FCPX has been winning a lot of middle ground. It was a calculated business decision. They also decided to give up ground at the pro photography level to Adobe to focus on a cohesive, integrated strategy for the 90% of their users that just want photos organized in a non-destructive way on their devices. Again, a business decision, but not a consumption decision. It's still a productivity move, just not at the pro-level.

Like your spurious claim that it is becoming a content consumption only platform, the idea that it is becoming useless because Apple change their pro tools strategy is equally spurious.

You are extrapolating from a single data point, grasping at straws to justify the extrapolation, and calling yourself a visionary.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

We now also know you drive an '00 Corolla and live in Walnut Creek, CA. By the way, why do you use diesel oil in your gasoline engine? I put the same stuff in my TDI...

Wait -- and why is the oil analysis guy talking about canola?!

Re:Wait, what?

[knarf]

Why not have a command line on a phone? I use it quite often - on Android, as walled gardens are not my thing - and it enables me to do things on the go which otherwise would require access to a bigger, much less portable device. Yes, the screen is small (3.7", Motorola Defy) but I have good eyes. Yes, the keyboard is not as handy as a full-size keyboard, but this being Android I get to choose an alternative which fits my needs (Hacker's Keyboard. Now that iOS8 allows some limited customization options, this might become possible for that market segment as well.

Maybe your question about 'who would really want a command line on their *phone*' is not that relevant as it only reflects your idea about what your phone should have? Other people have different wants and needs which are just as valid as yours. Some people use their phone as a small, ultra-portable computer. Other people use it as a fashion statement. Yet more use it to play games to bide time.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Yup, you don't know anything I didn't put out there myself. You know what I look like, too. Your point? Google a bit, you'll find the forum post those images were for.

I'm not worried about my enemies tracking me down; the enemies I make all know where I live already, anyway. I have other defenses against the few who would wish to harm me, if you're trying to highlight how scared I should be. :)

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

oh yeah, buttons that look like plain text is highly useful in "getting shit done". The new system font is thin and unreadable compared to the previous one. The looks suck and the usability sucks more. Bring back aqua! This looks like slashdot beta all over again. No one asked you for this major design overhaul, yet you built crap and shoved it down the customer's throat.

Honestly, how many osx users would choose yosemite over pre-yosemite versions? Answer: as many as slashdot users would prefer beta over classic.

OSX is also about fashion and style. Why pay Armani and Calvin Klien prices when you're getting walmart and other bottom dollar clothes?

Re:Wait, what?

[Dutch Gun]

I really, really hope this fascination of the global design community with "flat and ugly" disappears soon. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with gloss, shine, transparency and gradients? I actually *like* those things, and every UI designer seems to be tossing those out and saying "Nonono, you don't actually want that. Here's what hip and trendy, even if you don't like the way it looks! It's modern! It's clean! It's the FUTURE!"

I'm actually fine with the anti-skeumorphic trend in general. After all, there's no purpose in a book-organization app to look like a wood-paneled bookshelf. That's just silly and needless over-design. But there are some design elements that have evolved beyond their real-world counterparts. Designers keep wringing their hands about how we need to find a new "save" icon rather than a floppy. Guess what? No, we don't, because the entire world knows and understands that as a universal symbol now, even beyond it's roots as a real world device.

Likewise, the visual language of a button are well known. We probably press 100x more virtual buttons than real, physical buttons in our daily lives at this point, and so the beveled button is a design metaphor that doesn't need changing. I don't care if designers think it's ugly. It provides a 100% unambiguous declaration as to what it is and how it can be used. Designers have decided to strip that away and simply replace it with a clickable region and simple text (see Windows 8). This provides no clue to the user that the button is any different than a label, and actually sacrifices usability on the alter of design, which is inexcusable.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

You are extrapolating from a single data point, grasping at straws to justify the extrapolation, and calling yourself a visionary.

You say, in a thread where I've listed multiple data points. I'm not calling myself anything, I'm just saying what I see happening. 10 years from now, history will either call me a visionary or a moron; don't sit here and proclaim to be able to predict which will be the case.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

So, at this point it looks as though it was alerting me to the OS X 10.10 (14A389) update, since the bubble has been gone since that was installed. Still, funny that, when I it was around, it only went away after viewing the Featured tab in the App Store, and then only until I'd close the App Store. Again, if it was alerting to a software update, then there should have been a damn software update on the Updates tab.

I have no clue what the bubble was actually alerting me to, there was no indication whatsoever, so I'm forced to speculate based on its behavior; that's Apple's failing, not mine.

Re:Wait, what?

[Dutch Gun]

If you're typing the name of the program, of course there's little difference, except that Windows 8 covers your current workspace completely, yet doesn't even give you any visual indication that you can immediately start typing. This is endemic of the entire Windows 8 experience. There are no visual cues for *many* of the important things you have to do, and that's just a horrible design for a form factor with lots of real estate and a highly accurate pointing device.

I personally think the start menu is simply easier to use for a mouse user, especially when you don't remember exactly the name of what you're looking for (this can happen for rarely used programs or documentation, for example), because everything is logically grouped. You simply walk up the menu tree until you find what you're looking for and click it. Frequently used programs are pinned to the taskbar or perhaps populate the desktop.

However, it's a bit more than that as well. The start menu provides a logical anchor for nearly everything you can possibly do on a Windows machine. That's really, really important. There are shortcuts, but if you don't remember those shortcuts, you can simply click on the start menu and find it by browsing through the tree structure. It was an unbelievably stupid mistake, because MS completely discounted the psychological factor of removing a safe, always-visible fallback method for users to do whatever they needed to do on their computer.

From a design perspective, the Windows 8 start screen (well, the modern UI in general, actually) was also extremely intrusive for the user as well. This is fine for small form factors, because there's not enough screen real estate to do otherwise, but completely unacceptable for people with extremely large form-factor screens. You're unnecessarily blocking all other relevant information that the user is currently processing. After all, this isn't a phone, and so there's a high probability the user is working on or monitoring something else in another window (or many windows), and by removing those from view, you're creating a discontinuity in the workflow. The process is simply visually uncomfortable for large form factors.

Re:Wait, what?

[mrchaotica]

Actually, I was just going to warn you that you forgot to redact your name. Then when I read that you'd already noticed it, I got curious about that used oil analysis. Seriously, what's the deal with the diesel oil and/or canola in your Corolla?

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, it's dangerous to use my device as I choose?

You do not represent the mainstream user Apple designed the iOS devices for,
and your knowledge and abilities are significantly different from those of the
average iOS user.

Users like you are way out in the tail of the bell curve, where the area under the
curve is so small that Apple would be stupid to cater to that small number of users.

Frankly, if you were as intelligent as you pretend to be, the above would be glaringly obvious to you.
But it's obvious you are not so smart, so let me put it another way for you, sweet cheeks :
Apple doesn't give a fuck what some whiny little twit like you wants because YOU ARE NOT THE MARKET.

Re:Wait, what?

[CODiNE]

I can give a few points for the iOSification people out there.

1. Yosemite requires signed drivers. A bit more iOS like as you can't easily swap in hacked drivers for non-supported but basically the same hardware.
2. Such as 3rd party SSD disks which (afaik all Yosemite betas) do not have TRIM support in the official drivers. This makes people feel like Apple is discouraging self upgrading. Buy a more expensive OEM SSD, or just get a new Mac when you need a larger one?
3. RAM being soldered on more systems such as the new mini.
4. Built in video mode checks preventing retina scaling on 3rd party monitors and the driver signing limitations preventing workarounds.

There's a lot of people who have long feared Apple locking down hardware and making them more appliance like. It's looking like these fears are gradually becoming more realistic. With signed drivers in Yosemite, security has been improved but with another loss of freedom and apparently arbitrary hardware limitations. It's true the OSes at this point are quite distinct, the locking down trend can be easily argued however.

Re:Wait, what?

[BronsCon]

Well, in that case... Here is the original thread and the followup.

Yes, I do retarded things to my engine. No, it doesn't seem to mind. I do need to replace the timing chain tensioner, though, it seems to want to adjust one notch too loose; not enough to cause it to skip a tooth, but definitely enough that it's noise as hell until it warms up, and it's definitely chain noise. Not oil-related, though. :)

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually a sandboxed application is not allowed to use AppleScript to control another application on OS X.
I actually had to build my own screenshot taking functions for creating incident reports, also the incident reports can't start the mail client anymore.

Re:Wait, what?

[drinkypoo]

You do not represent the mainstream user Apple designed the iOS devices for,

Congratulations, you just summed up the problem with Apple devices succinctly. They did not design them to be general-purpose computers. They designed them not to be. But there's no technical reason why they can't give you the option. Therefore, anyone paying Apple money is a dirty fucking liar if they claim that they want computing to be transformational. Apple has been pivotal in preventing that future.

Apple doesn't give a fuck what some whiny little twit like you wants because YOU ARE NOT THE MARKET.

If nerds couldn't jailbreak then there would be less of them running iOS and less recommendations that people run it because less nerds would be familiar with it. Of course there are a bunch of fake-ass nerds out there who are afraid to use a computer as a general-purpose computing device, so yeah, there's always the douchenozzles who stuck with Apple even through the Performa era because they are brainwashed dipshits. Enjoy the new Microsoft, dildo.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

It's Yosemite. And none of the icons are the same. They couldn't be because the design guidelines are different. Of course in some cases there are common themes, where they have an app with the same and functionality on both. It would be stupid if there were not. But they are never the same.

Re:Wait, what?

[angel'o'sphere]

What do you mean with the same?
Same in iOS as in OS X, or same as in older OS X versions?
Many Yosemite Icons are the same as on iOS, e.g the Mail.app and the Notes.app

Re:Wait, what?

[Optali]

Well, I was just reading this article ready to hit the "Update" button. ;)
Should I?

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

You can get the various open source services. But OSX Server installs them all correctly for OSX, out of the box, and gets you a powerful app to manage them all.

Doing this yourself for every package, and getting them to work via the command line in order to save $20 would be stupid.

In the hypothetical situation that you needed to do something that the app didn't allow for, you've still got the option to drop down to the CLI and scripts. Buying OSX server doesn't take that away.

Re:Wait, what?

[BasilBrush]

Many Yosemite Icons are the same as on iOS, e.g the Mail.app and the Notes.app

No they are not. In the case of Mail, there's not even a theme in common. Yosemite Mail is photorealistic a stamp at a jaunty angle. In iOS it's a symbolic outline of an envelop in a rounded square.

Notes has the same theme of a notebook with a yellow binding and feint lines. But it's presentation is totally different in the two icons.

Don't know what you are looking at, but you've made a big mistake.

Re:Wait, what?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Including things like their version of Androids Intents (that they call "extensions")....notifications pane from iOS (stolen from Android, natch)...

Right, so you're upset that Apple is using plugins, extensions, and notifications because all of those things were invented by Android developers. Sure.

You seem to have "accidentally" forgotten to quote the objectionable part:

However, since they come from iOS, they ["extensions"] only work with apps that are sold through the App Store.

Anything that "only works with... the App Store" (except maybe for updating the OS itself and first-party applications) is a problem, because it's a step towards locking out anything that circumvents the App Store.

You are right in so far as he should have totally focused on the part that absolutely isn't true and ignored the other things that aren't true either. Hunh?

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether the number represents a sizeable percentage or not is irrelevant. The implication was that /nobody/ would want a command line, and that statement is patently untrue. Most (the vast, vast majority of, even) users of any desktop OS won't ever use the command line on it either, but that doesn't make it irrelevant to exist.

The command line on an Android phone has been invaluable to me.

Re:Wait, what?

[jeremyp]

App store feels less optional over time. You can't officially get xcode without it,

Absolutely not true. You can also get Xcode through the developer centre.

In Yosemite the software update menu item is gone altogether and presumably you have to at least open up app store to get to it (though if you don't use any Apple applications it would only be for os updates).

True, but in Mavericks, Software Update did nothing more than open the App Store on the Updates tab.

Re:Wait, what?

[jeremyp]

You can program your phone, you just need a Macintosh, Xcode and a developer certificate to do it.

Re: Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

The feature you're remembering is Exposé. I quite loved it too but Apple successfully weaned me off of it in Snow Leopard by discarding the relative sizing of the window previews.

(With the release of Snow Leopard, Apple changed the preview windows to all be the same size, presumably because this looked "tidier" on screen. In reality, it crapped all over the user's spacial perception and reduced him or her to searching for the correct window by title alone. Thankfully, the Exposé replacement, Mission Control, is just the same Leopard Exposé warmed-over with some of the screen devoted to preview displays of other (work) Spaces.)

Re:Wait, what?

[Darinbob]

Everything in Developer Center sends me to the app store or requires an Apple ID.

Sad that the technical stuff goes last

[Gothmolly]

"Grab bag" of technical things after the themes, and screenshots of the installer.

ArsTechnica, where have you gone?

Re:Sad that the technical stuff goes last

[ColdWetDog]

You DARE denigrate the OS X God that is John Siracusa*? You miserable infidel!.

How can you NOT bow down to the man who must have spent every waking minute of his life since 10.10 was released in alpha form working on this magnum opus? How can you NOT revel in his insights as to the amount of white space needed to click on a menu bar? How can you NOT bask in the glory of a 25 page Ars article (thank His Noodliness for Adblock).

Philistine.

* Thanks John, I mean really. I've followed you since BYTE Days (not that I understood half of what you were saying). But 25 pages?

More!

[Anonymous Coward]

More dumbed down, more attempts to sell you things via the App Store, more childlike IU (serious, who the fuck is designing this shit? And this is also true for Microsoft, Gnome, Unity, KDE...), and more hipsters not going to shut up this WHOLE FUCKING WEEK about this shit because it came from Apple.

Re:More!

[gtall]

"more childlike IU", yep, it looks like crap. I wish there was a switch so we could select the interface look we wanted, that probably would have been expensive for Apple to keep two looks around, but the Yosemite look just plain sucks MS balls.

Minimalism Overkill

[nucrash]

I really wish this sad trend of minimalism would go away.

In a way, I feel minimalism reflects the decline of our society because let's face it, we aren't putting all that much effort into our designs at this point.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[slapout]

Thank you! Apple keeps trying to take things away, but they've gotten to the point where it hurts functionality.

Re: Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

"hurts functionality"

[citation needed]

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm also tired of the silly trend which flatten out the UI with bright colors + medium grey...

I feel that bumps and shadows help a lot for comfort and readability of the UI. I miss those.

And you?

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not kidding, I wish it would to.

Looks like I'll avoid upgrading my Mac for as long as I can, hopefully by the time I have to they'll have moved on. This update is UGLY!!

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like they want to go back to Windows 95. The cycle is now complete.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[OscarGunther]

Adding chrome to a design is only more effort in the sense that you have to spend a lot of time adding that chrome. Otherwise, minimalism is at least just as hard because your intent and functionality can't hide behind the pretty blinking lights.

How does Fallingwater reflect a decline in society when compared to Versailles?

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Minimalisim requires *more* effort, not less. Which is more of a design challenge: 1) expose every setting for every aspect of a system, pick reasonable defaults, and trust the user to learn enough to figure out how to adjust every setting, or 2) greatly narrow the choices, pick a very few settings to expose, get it right at design time.

You may personally prefer one or the other, but minimalism puts a lot more work on the designer than the kitchen sink approach does.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[MachineShedFred]

Please point out what they've "taken away" in OS X Yosemite besides a graphical style that you like.

We'll all wait for your response.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[angel'o'sphere]

The thread is not about Yosemite, in case you have not noticed but about the new Maverick.
Mac OS X 10!

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Retron]

WIndows 95 eh? At least that had 3D buttons which "pushed in" when you clicked on them.

Of course, the old Windows 95-esque theme is *still* there, even in Windows 10, but they do try and hide it from you. You can see it if you run Word, embed a Graph object (which borks DWM, so you get Windows Vista's Aero Basic instead). Change the screen resolution and bam, DWM completely dies and you get left with the Windows 95 style controls and theme. (Well, technically it's more like Windows 98 as it has the gradient-shaded title bar, but the thought is there!)

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Minimalism *may* require more effeort to succesfully pull off, but it is clear for everyone to see that apple hasn't managed to pull it off since the new interface is frankly ugly.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

I love minimalism.

All that shiny chrome crap is like big fins on old 50's cars - fucking ugly, heavy, useless crap.

I want a lean, plain surface - not something that looks like the inside of a suburban English lady's living room - ugly fucking wallpaper and junk all over the place.

Re: Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

I hated how they dumbed down the system updater when they went to Mavericks, rolled it into the app store, worst of all, removed the part that tells you how big of a download each patch is. or if they are downloaded or in need of download. Now when i update it's a gamble just how long that might take. Because my high speed connection is only moderate speed, 1 gig worth of download could take a few hours, but there's no way to gauge that ahead of time.

Don't get me wrong, interface design can benefit from a less is more approach and apple does that well, but not always. I'm hoping they fixed my pet peeve in this release.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[frank_adrian314159]

Stop assuming that simplicity is the only aesthetic principle - even Modernists hate living in Modernist houses.

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

One mouse button to rule them all!

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[Plumpaquatsch]

The thread is not about Yosemite, in case you have not noticed but about the new Maverick. Mac OS X 10!

So why exactly are we to take anything you say seriously?

Re:Minimalism Overkill

[angel'o'sphere]

Yeah I was serious :D
Unfortunately I mixed the "code names" up, hate them anyway.

Nevertheless the question of the parent was stupid, as we all know that the newest OS indeed has switched its UI completely towards an iOS look.

Sibling Rivalry?

[slapout]

Siblings should not be the same. Are you and your siblings exactly alike? You're better and some things and they are better at others.

A desktop and a mobile OS should not be exactly alike. Sure, they can share similarities, just like you share traits with your siblings. But even twins are not exactly the same. Nor should they be.

A desktop OS should be designed for different jobs than a mobile one.

Re: Sibling Rivalry?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am. My twin sister is exactly like me. Of course she copies everything I do, except kind of like you mentioned, with her other hand.

Re: Sibling Rivalry?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is she hot?

Re:Sibling Rivalry?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're absolutely right! Good thing iOS and Mac OS are nothing alike with their completely different user interfaces, capabilities, and methods of interaction! But, with their similar design cues and symbiotic relationship via iCloud, Continuity, Messages, FaceTime, etc. it's like Apple listened to you and did exactly what you said they should do!

Re: Sibling Rivalry?

[Anonymous Coward]

virgin alert...

Re: Sibling Rivalry?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing normally you'd be right, but in this case you're not.

Cut the Crap

[puddingebola]

Look, Apple couldn't have developed this technology themselves. This came from the UFOs they have at Area 51 and the alien flying saucer technology from the Roswell crash. Do some basic research before you post these stories.

Re:Cut the Crap

[__aaclcg7560]

As if Apple building a new headquarters in the shape of flying saucer wasn't a dead giveaway of their technology's extraterrestial origins.

Swift must be a good programming language...

[mlts]

Swift must be really in demand. In the past few weeks, I've gotten at least five recruiters with positions open, but with requirements of at least five years work with the language.

Re:Swift must be a good programming language...

[Anonymous Coward]

With that silly requirement, those recruiters could not even hire the father of the language. FTA:

In July of 2010, coincidentally a month after my Copland 2010 revisited article was published, Chris Lattner, creator of Apple’s LLVM compiler infrastructure and then senior manager and architect in Apple’s Developer Tools Group, secretly began work on a new programming language.

Four years later, Lattner, now director of Apple’s Developer Tools Department, appeared on stage during the WWDC 2014 keynote and shocked thousands of assembled developers—and quite a few Apple employees—by introducing Apple’s new programming language for OS X and iOS: Swift.

Re:Swift must be a good programming language...

[Nimey]

*whoosh*

Re:Swift must be a good programming language...

[edremy]

You're assuming they could use search and replace. Given my experience with HR (and lots of other people) that's a serious stretch.

Re:Swift must be a good programming language...

[pubwvj]

Don't worry, they aren't looking for _you_. They're looking for the development team members who really do have five years experience with Swift. This requirement is a filter so you won't get caught up in the hiring.

Lowest common denominator

[PopeRatzo]

"OS X is finally a full-fledged peer to iOS; all aspects of sibling rivalry have been banished."

What a damn shame.

LOOKS MORE LIKE VEGAMITE THAN YOSEMITE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha !! It sucks to have to use that !!

Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how most of the comments state that the interface looks worse than in previous releases.

And I agree.

This iOSification of the UI of the Mac OS with the crappy Helvetica Neue and bright blue graphics needs to stop yesterday. It's just ugly and I don't want to use ugly.

Re:Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what girls think about your fedora.

"All aspects of sibling rivalry banished"? Nope.

[sideslash]

iOS has touch screens. Windows has touch screens. ChromeOS has touch screens. Come ooooonnnn, Tim, you know you want toooooo!

TL;DR

[Anonymous Coward]

TLDR: toolbar still not in window; close/minimize still on the wrong side; no more glossy aqua buttons.

Re:TL;DR

[Anonymous Coward]

It's on the "wrong side" because it's different from Windows?

Re:TL;DR

[Anonymous Coward]

and ...

Doc icon bar no longer 3D

Re:TL;DR

[praxis]

You can still close windows in Windows by double clicking the left side of the title bar (where the window menu used to be), even in Windows 7 (not sure about Windows 8 or Windows 10 as I have used neither).

Out of context...

[Kenshin]

Everyone's taking that snippet waaaay out of context.

OS X and iOS work better together now, they don't work the same.

As in, for example, you start typing a document on your desktop, like you normally would, and you can continue it on your phone seamlessly and automatically if you have to go out. Both with different, and appropriate, interfaces.

This isn't about making your desktop work LIKE a phone. It's about making your desktop work WITH your phone.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

As in, for example, you start typing a document on your desktop, like you normally would, and you can continue it on your phone seamlessly and automatically if you have to go out.

I've been able to do that for years with and desktop and smartphone OS combination, via Google Docs and Office 360, amongst other solutions. It's nothing new, and I'd argue that Apples way is no different, and certainly not better. I don't do it often because I generally don't like the interfaces for any of the apps that have the capability, so I tend to only use one of said apps (in my case Google Docs) when I know, in advance, that I'm going to be editing a document on the go. Beyond that, the ability to use a full-on desktop editor and its full-on mobile counterpart (or some other developer's compatible software, if you like their interface better), sticking a cloud provider in between them (which is what Apple is doing, here), rather than using anyone's web interface (a-la Google Docs and Office 360) has been around for just as long. The difference is, with Apple's solution, if your phone is not an iPhone, you don't get the capability at all and, if your phone is and iPhone, you still don't get the option of using compatible native alternatives; though, you can still use Google Docs or Office 360 if the web interfaces float your boat (yes, there are native mobile apps for both, what's lacking is the desktop side of those solutions).

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic to see more companies getting into this, more interfaces being developed, and, all around, more interest in it. What bothers me is that every implementation uses its own cloud, its own file format, and its own interface, as its own form of lock-in. I'd love to see some competition here, some interoperability between the different solutions, and, most importantly, some standardization of file formats, so you can use any arbitrary solution you like on your desktop and any arbitrary solution you like on your phone or tablet, and have at least a chance of it working.

Apple, please, pioneer this while I'm still on your platform.

Re:Out of context...

[Kenshin]

The difference between this and Google Docs is that it's baked right into the OS, and has hooks for third parties to implement it in their applications.

So that is some sort of standardization. At least, on Apple devices.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

Right, like I pointed out there's a desktop app with this solution. As for "hooks for third parties to implement it in their applications", yes, the cloud side of things; you know, like DropBox, or Google Docs, or any other cloud provider with both a mobile and desktop cloud sync app the provides a filesystem-based interface. When they start using interchangeable file formats that are compatible with other software, then I'll be impressed.

Don't get me wrong, TextEdit is great for taking notes, and I use it a LOT for jotting down quick thoughts I'm going to work with, process, and the get rid of (I use OneNote for things I'm going to keep, though the Mac version is lacking in a few features; I've been impressed by how much effort Microsoft is putting toward fixing that, though). I wouldn't use it to draft anything where formatting and display are important, though; and I'm not a fan of Apple's solutions in that arena, either, which makes Apple's current solution a whole lot of useless for me. Awesome, for anyone already using Pages and whatnot, really, good for them, their lives just got that much better; but, until all of these cloud documents vendors (I'm not just poking at Apple, here) implement support for something like ODF (and maybe MS Word), they're simply setting themselves up as systems of obvious and easily avoidable lock-in, preventing users who actually care about their data from using them for anything of any importance.

Document editor vendors, listen up, here is what you can do to differentiate yourself from the competition:

A) Let your application open one or more standard and widely used formats for whatever type of document your application works with.
B) Let your application interface with *at least* two cloud providers, preferably via a plugin system, so more can be added as time progresses.

That's it. Those two things will allow users to choose which desktop and mobile interfaces they prefer, which will guide adoption of these technologies for a wider audience, including users who actually care about their data.

Re:Out of context...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't get me wrong, TextEdit is great for taking notes, and I use it a LOT for jotting down quick thoughts I'm going to work with, process, and the get rid of (I use OneNote for things I'm going to keep, though the Mac version is lacking in a few features; I've been impressed by how much effort Microsoft is putting toward fixing that, though). I wouldn't use it to draft anything where formatting and display are important, though; and I'm not a fan of Apple's solutions in that arena, either, which makes Apple's current solution a whole lot of useless for me. Awesome, for anyone already using Pages and whatnot, really, good for them, their lives just got that much better; but, until all of these cloud documents vendors (I'm not just poking at Apple, here) implement support for something like ODF (and maybe MS Word), they're simply setting themselves up as systems of obvious and easily avoidable lock-in, preventing users who actually care about their data from using them for anything of any importance.

tl;dr ... "I am not an Emacs user."

Re:Out of context...

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd, what you've been talking about I've also done for years on OSX/iOS with no third party apps. Did you miss something here?

Re:Out of context...

[BasilBrush]

I'd argue that Apples way is no different, and certainly not better. I don't do it often because I generally don't like the interfaces for any of the apps that have the capability

The difference is, as you then go on to acknowledge, that Google Docs is a web app, and Apple's apps are native. And the reason why the Google Docs are so bad you don't like them is they are limited by the fact that they are web apps.

What are you missing here?

As to it needing Apple devices on both ends, Apple has always been a "whole widget" company. One of the reason there products work so well is because they retain total control of hardware and software.

If there was a quality existing standard for handing off between different Office apps on different apps/OSs, then Apple might use it. But there's not.

Furthermore, there have been major growing pains with iCloud over the years even with it just being used from Apple's own APIs. Making it generic would introduce more problems.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

And the reason why the Google Docs are so bad you don't like them is they are limited by the fact that they are web apps.

So now you're qualified to tell me what I do and don't like? then, please, Mr. Psychic, tell me what I don't like about the interface of Apple's native document editing apps. I'm sure it's nothing to do with them being web based, since, you know, they're not. In short, you're wrong for reason I'm sure you'll never be able understand.

If there was a quality existing standard for handing off between different Office apps on different apps/OSs, then Apple might use it. But there's not.

ODF is pretty damn standard. Hell, even Microsoft has an open standard in use, currently. In fact, I can exchange documents between OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Star Office, and Microsoft Office in either format. Yes, between operating systems, as well. What makes you think the OS matters? It's not parsing the file, the software is. In short, yes, this thing you say doesn't exist does, in fact, exist. It's existed for years, and been used widely for just as long.

Furthermore, there have been major growing pains with iCloud over the years even with it just being used from Apple's own APIs. Making it generic would introduce more problems.

Well, I'm not sure what I can say about this without sounding like an Apple basher, so fuck it, I'll bash them on this, because I feel it's deserved. iCloud is nothing more than an online storage service. It takes data from one device and makes that data available to other devices. If they can't get that right, that's not growing pains, that's incompetence. Not that the whole company is incompetent, but the iCloud team sure seems to be. What they're doing with iCloud is so deceptively simple; the requirements are:

A) An interface that allows files to be uploaded, modified, and removed
B) An interface that allows for either push notification of polling of new, changed, and removed files
C) An interface that allows files to be downloaded

They've gotten much more complex systems right in the past, there's simply no excuse for them not to be able to do this.

Can users upload arbitrary files to iCloud? Yes? Then any application that can read from, and write to, "~/Library/Mobile Documents/" (does it get much more generic?) can use it. Sure, the location is different on an iDevice, but it's there, as well. All that's missing is file format support; the same thing that's missing from every other solution; though Google Docs (and, likely, Office 360) can sure import a hell of a lot of formats.

I guess, really, what I'm asking for is a solution that we've actually had for decades. The ability to open a file in a common format, from the media of my choice. Why is that so hard? Why does it seem that nobody is capable of that once a mobile device is involved? I mean, the parsing logic is already written, many times over, for the formats in question, publicly available and freely licensed in most cases, and they're already interfacing with at least one cloud provider. It's really not hard, I could do it in my sleep.

What *is* hard is making a full-featured editor that display documents (once parsed) nicely. If I could do that, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The thing is, the people I'm complaining about have already done that hard part; what I'm asking for is the easy part.

Re:Out of context...

[BasilBrush]

So now you're qualified to tell me what I do and don't like?

I'm qualified to say that the reason Google Docs sucks is because it's a web app.

ODF is pretty damn standard. Hell, even Microsoft has an open standard in use, currently. In fact, I can exchange documents between OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Star Office, and Microsoft Office in either format.

They are file formats. They are not methods of handing off open documents between different devices without first saving them somewhere. Completely different thing.

And even they are fucked. Documents moved between different office apps tend to break. Still. In 2014.

iCloud is nothing more than an online storage service. It takes data from one device and makes that data available to other devices. If they can't get that right, that's not growing pains, that's incompetence.

It's a sync service, that works on open files. And that's hard. Very hard. Always has been. And if you don't know that, that's your incompetence.

And yes, I'm a developer that has programmed with iCloud, and worked in the same office as the sync team for another OS company, so I do have a little insight into this.

I guess, really, what I'm asking for is a solution that we've actually had for decades. The ability to open a file in a common format, from the media of my choice. Why does it seem that nobody is capable of that once a mobile device is involved?

Repeat after me: file formats and sync are not the same thing. The only reason that you think it's easy is because it's not a problem you've ever been exposed to.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

I'm qualified to say that the reason Google Docs sucks is because it's a web app.

First of all, what qualifies you to say that? Second, that's not what you said; you said the reason they were so limited that I don't like them was that they're a web app, which fails on two parts; first, they're native on Android and iOS; and second, it's the interface I don't like, they're actually quite capable tools.

They are file formats. They are not methods of handing off open documents between different devices without first saving them somewhere. Completely different thing.

Oh? Well, if that's what you're after, what happened to FTP, SFTP, SCP, HTTP, el-al? Not good enough, because it first has to be saved somewhere? Well, you're saving to iCloud, and that's somewhere; don't be fooled into thinking a temporary file isn't created somewhere on your disk, which is precisely how you would enable any of the other file transfer technologies we've had for decades to work in exactly the same way. In fact, nearly every cloud storage provider (including iCloud) uses HTTP as a primary transfer method.

And even they are fucked. Documents moved between different office apps tend to break. Still. In 2014.

But at least they open. I'd rather have to do some reformatting when changing providers or applications than lose access to my data altogether.

It's a sync service, that works on open files. And that's hard. Very hard. Always has been. And if you don't know that, that's your incompetence.

So, then, you're saying I should be able to have the same document open on two devices, edit it, on one, and see the changes immediately on the other? That's actually not that difficult unless you're also tracking cursor position, which there's typically no need for. I do the same thing in my IDE with Git and automated commits and pulls (I automate squashing of the automated commits, as well, so I don't have millions of commits at the end of the day). Once per minute, the live update branch is fetched, and local changes are committed and pushed back to the branch; any decent IDE can update the display when the file contents change. Yes, there are files involved, but then, there's always a temporary file involved. It would be stupid not to use a temp file; what happens if you lose connectivity, or power goes out between cloud updates?

Even tracking cursor positions is simple, though; you just use a different mechanism for it, either a direct connection between users, or a connection to a central location, where the information is exchanged in real time. It's active state data, not persistent, so there's no need to store it.

And yes, I'm a developer that has programmed with iCloud, and worked in the same office as the sync team for another OS company, so I do have a little insight into this.

Congrats. You clearly didn't look behind the scenes, or you'd know there are temp files (e.g. local files) in use, at a very minimum as a cache in case connectivity is lost or there is a power failure or system crash. You know, you you don't lose that data. If I'm wrong about that, then you have two options: ignore it, or call me out as wrong and admit that iCloud is plagued by a massive data-integrity flaw; luckily for you, the decision won't come up.

Repeat after me: file formats and sync are not the same thing. The only reason that you think it's easy is because it's not a problem you've ever been exposed to.

See above. Yes, it's easy, and yes, I've been exposed to it. You certainly assume a lot; for instance, you assume that your experience is all that exists and that anything that you find difficult is difficult for everyone else.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

Perhaps I did. Elaborate?

Re:Out of context...

[BasilBrush]

First of all, what qualifies you to say that?

All ground cleverness and good looks.

Second, that's not what you said; you said the reason they were so limited that I don't like them was that they're a web app, which fails on two parts; first, they're native on Android and iOS; and second, it's the interface I don't like, they're actually quite capable tools.

And the interface is limited by being web apps in the full desktop version. Sure it's limited by being a mobile app on iOS and Android, but that's not what I referred to.

Oh? Well, if that's what you're after, what happened to FTP, SFTP, SCP, HTTP, el-al? Not good enough, because it first has to be saved somewhere?

Correct. And that leads to there being no live editing, which leads to sync conflicts. Which are one of the most difficult computing problems to deal with. That may surprise you, but that only means you've never had anything to do with developing sync solutions.

Your belief that this is solved by having a temporary file somewhere is just naive.

Git is only easy if you are the only one making edits. If there's multiple people working on a project then someone has to merge edits manually at some stage. And manual conflict resolution is something you can't do on a user level app such as a word processor or spreadsheet.

Yes, it's easy, and yes, I've been exposed to it.

This is a contradiction. If you think it's easy, you've never been involved with data sync development.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

Correct. And that leads to there being no live editing, which leads to sync conflicts.

Well, did I not also say this?

Even tracking cursor positions is simple, though; you just use a different mechanism for it, either a direct connection between users, or a connection to a central location, where the information is exchanged in real time. It's active state data, not persistent, so there's no need to store it.

And, from there, it's trivial to also pass other events, such as key presses and editor commands, in the same stream. Check out SubEthaEdit, which Panic used as a jumping-off point for Coda. If you think anything you're blathering on about is new and hasn't been solved for decades, your lack of domain knowledge is leading you to redo work that's already been done hundreds of times over.

Furthermore, the real-time collaborative aspect of iCloud is something new that's being introduced in Yosemite. It is still, and always has been, a file storage and retrieval service. Now, it's a file storage and retrieval service that also provides a real-time communication channel, but that's also nothing new. The only reason you think it's new is because it has the word "cloud" attached to it; it's been done since the 70's, though.

Re:Out of context...

[BasilBrush]

Correct. And that leads to there being no live editing, which leads to sync conflicts."

Well, did I not also say this?

The acknowledgement of the part you said is in the word "correct". What you haven't realised is the difficult part is automatically resolving sync conflicts.

If you think anything you're blathering on about is new

I didn't say it was new, I said it was hard. And it is.

and hasn't been solved for decades

It's never solved. This isn't a one solution fits all problem. Every scenario has it's own set of issues and solutions.

Furthermore, the real-time collaborative aspect of iCloud is something new that's being introduced in Yosemite.

No it's not. That was a part of iCloud from the start. What's been introduced this time is hand off. Which is the notification from one machine to another that a task is in process, without having to explicitly load it on the second machine.

The only reason you think it's new is because it has the word "cloud" attached to it; it's been done since the 70's, though.

The word cloud wasn't used for this stuff when I was first working on it. Of course it was at the time iCloud was introduced. But I've been using the phrase data sync here, not cloud. So your accusation is even less grounded in rational thinking than the rest of what you say.

Since the 70s? No. In the 1970s, everything was working on client server model. Data sync started being a thing in the 1980s. But I wasn't involved till the late 90s.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

What you haven't realised is the difficult part is automatically resolving sync conflicts.

Well, it doesn't seem to be a problem in the solution I'm currently using. Mind you, sarcasm>I probably have no clue how it works, given that I implemented it/sarcasm>. But you go right on ahead and keep telling me it's a hard problem. Difficult for you, perhaps, but not hard; there are a finite number of possible solutions and it should not be difficult for a well-built system to solve. True, Git (which I used as the basis for my solution) doesn't do a very good job of this natively; it took some creative and well thought out commit and merge hooks to accomplish it, a good day's work, for sure.

You are correct, though, that there is no one-size-fits-all solution for what to sync and how to handle merging of whatever does eventually get synched. But, then, I never claimed that there was; my claim was that the transport part of the equation is, and has been for decades, solved. Can you argue that point?

Earlier, you said:

They are file formats. They are not methods of handing off open documents between different devices without first saving them somewhere. Completely different thing.

And I didn't disagree. I did, however, point out that the documents are, in fact, saved somewhere (e.g. a temporary file, at the very least), out of necessity. I also pointed out why this was necessary, e.g. if you at all care about data consistency and preventing work loss in case of loss of power or a software or system failure. Can it be done without a temporary file somewhere local? Sure, and without issue, as long as you never lose connectivity or power while working, and your software and system never crash. If you live in a perfect world, you are correct to say that a temp file provides no benefit; however, neither I, nor anyone else I know, live in such a world. When you're using an all that utilizes cloud storage and the app crashes or you close it while you happen to not have any connectivity, it is able to restore your work only because it stored it in a local temp file somewhere.

What application(s) are you involved in. I would like to avoid them.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

I really need to start proofreading my longer posts better... "When you're using an all" should read "When you're using an app" and the last line should contain a question.

Re:Out of context...

[BasilBrush]

Well, it doesn't seem to be a problem in the solution I'm currently using. Mind you, sarcasm>I probably have no clue how it works, given that I implemented it/sarcasm>.

Your lashed together script that operates git is neither here nor there. If it uses git is does not automatically resolve conflicts, and it is not suitable for end users. So it's not solving the hard problems at all. That you have the gall to criticise Apple's real "iCloud" solution on the basis of this is laughable.

You don't even understand the problem of data sync.

Anyhow, this is pointless. You've moved beyond simple ignorance of proper data sync to empty insults. End of discussion.

Re:Out of context...

[BronsCon]

So then, you're implying that I must be spending time manually resolving conflicts within my solution? It's possible that you're implying that I've never encountered two people editing the same file between syncs, let alone the same line, but let me assure you that I have; which leaves the former option. Let me also tell you that I've not had to manually resolve any conflicts, as the solution I built does a fine job of this. For you to tell me that I do not understand data sync when I've built a data sync solution myself; many, in fact, the Git-based solution I'm bringing up here is simply the most recent, is the insult. If you think the problem is so difficult, it is not unreasonable for me to wish to avoid your work, even if you do find it insulting. There's nothing empty about that.

Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[SuperKendall]

These Ars OSX reviews have always been really impressive things, full of technical examination and as you can see, very long to write...

It made more sense to me back when you had to pay for an upgrade though, so you could see if it was worth getting. Now that it's free, the need for long technical examination seems to diminish...

That said I hope they keep doing them because it is nice to have a deep technical examination of what is new.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[CadentOrange]

The cost of the upgrade was pretty much insignificant compared to the hassle and the pain of ensuring that all your installed software packages were compatible.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[Anonymous Coward]

What's even more impressive is that the author is not even a professional reviewer or even a writer, he has a day job as a Perl programmer and writes OS X reviews on the side.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[ColdWetDog]

Now that it's free, the need for long technical examination seems to diminish...

I dunno about that. These reviews always show me features I've never known were in the OS and some of the thinking and history behind them. Do you need to read these? Of course not, my wife uses OSX and wouldn't understand every fifth word, nor would she care. I look forward to his disassemblies. Just takes me a while to get through them ....

I don't spend a whole lot of time dithering with the OS. I use a computer for it's applications. But the more you know, the more work you can get out of the machines. Still and all, I can't get too wound up about missing a few pixels here and there. Glad somebody does.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[jittles]

These Ars OSX reviews have always been really impressive things, full of technical examination and as you can see, very long to write...

It made more sense to me back when you had to pay for an upgrade though, so you could see if it was worth getting. Now that it's free, the need for long technical examination seems to diminish...

That said I hope they keep doing them because it is nice to have a deep technical examination of what is new.

Apple makes it very difficult for the average person to downgrade after you upgrade OS. If you try and run, for instance, the Mavericks installer after having upgraded to Yosemite, it will fail and tell you to install a newer version of OS X. There may or may not be a way around this, I've never tried.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[BasilBrush]

Downgrading an OS by a major version is asking to break it. The upgrade scripts will normally change various datafile formats and contents. That's not a reversible process unless there are equivalent scripts to go the other way. And what OS developer is going to put the same development and testing effort into going backwards?

Thats not to say that you can't in GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux lets you tinker with most things. But it generally offers no protection from breaking everything when you do so.

Of course the right thing to do regardless of platform is to make sure you do a complete backup before upgrading, so you can go back to that if you want to.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[jittles]

Downgrading an OS by a major version is asking to break it. The upgrade scripts will normally change various datafile formats and contents. That's not a reversible process unless there are equivalent scripts to go the other way. And what OS developer is going to put the same development and testing effort into going backwards?

Thats not to say that you can't in GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux lets you tinker with most things. But it generally offers no protection from breaking everything when you do so.

Of course the right thing to do regardless of platform is to make sure you do a complete backup before upgrading, so you can go back to that if you want to.

Go ahead and try to wipe the entire drive and then install an older version of MacOS. Put in a new drive and try to install an older version. They change something - I don't know if its in the SMC or something, but it will give you an error. I do not mean downgrading the OS on top of an existing install. I mean a fresh install of an older OS.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[BasilBrush]

Search the web, and you'll see instructions for downgrading Mavericks to Mountain Lion using a Time Machine backup. And certainly during the beta testing phase you could downgrade Yosemite to Mavericks.

The release of Yosemite has only just come out, and I haven't tried it myself so I can't guarantee it. But it would be very surprising if you can't restore from a backup that's a previous OS.

I mean a fresh install of an older OS.

No, you can't do that. But what's the use case? You're going to throw away all your data and apps?

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[Wootery]

he has a day job as a Perl programmer

And yet, so readable!

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[suman28]

This is simply not true. I have downgraded several times. I unfortunately did NOT backup my system before performing an upgrade to the first Beta of Yosemite. It worked fine for a days, but I noticed some oddities, and then I saw that my system started to crash more often. Since I didn't have a backup, I put in the for Snow Leopard, and away it went. It installed fine (though it took a couple of extra steps, since the Recovery partition Yosemite creates is not compatible and had to wipe that first). I then had to upgrade from Snow Leopard to Mavericks from the Apple Store. I had a similar problem on the version before Lion (had a backup that time), and was able to simply restore the backup and was up and running in very short order (two hours tops). I was a very heavy Windows user for more than 10 years, but now that I have switched to OS X, I will never go back. I will admit that the Hidden Files thing and the Home / End / Page Up / Page Down still drives me nuts, 4 years after I started using it. I understand that you can press Cmd + Whatever, but I would rather it had been a single key. The rest of the OS is great. I have two UI developers sitting across from me at work, and they use their Macs to the fullest extent possible and Retina display with the trillions of colors and subtlety makes all the difference, but to me it has been a great experience.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[suman28]

I should also add that I will not be purchasing another Mac after my current 2011 17 inch dies. I like the fact that I upgraded my Mac to the fullest extent possible. Just something I cannot do anymore with the newer models, and the fact that there are no more 17 inch models, makes me a little bit angry that folks like me are completely being ignored. I am also the one voice in the thousands saying that I hate the "flat" look and the god awful colors of Yosemite, and will NOT be upgrading. I will stay with Mavericks on the 17 inch model as long as possible, and move on to who knows what next. :(

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[kwalker]

This! Very much this!

The last three versions of OS X have broken critical work programs for the vast majority of people in my company. It has gotten to the point where Helpdesk warns people to NOT install the new OSX until Helpdesk have had a chance to go over it closely and if you do, and if you have any problems whatsoever, your computer will be taken, wiped, and reverted to the previous stable version of OS X.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[LDAPMAN]

I thought I'd miss my 17" too. However, I've found that setting the resolution on the 15" Retina Macbook Pro to same resolution as the old 17" looks even better than the 17 did. It's also a hell of a lot lighter. Try it...you'll like it.

Re:Interesting they keep doing lengthly reviews...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you going back to stone tablets? You are in the minority, those 17" didn't sell well compared to the 13-15" machines. You know who else is being ignored? Those xMac people, and there are about ten people that want the cube reborn.

Well, no one else here said it yet...

[jasno]

Upgraded yesterday. I can't comment on the internal changes, but IMHO the new look is ugly. It even looks like the 'X' in the close button isn't centered. I want my old look back.

Re:Well, no one else here said it yet...

[BasilBrush]

Do you have Retina? I believe the new look is optimised for that.

Did you backup before upgrading?

Re:Well, no one else here said it yet...

[jasno]

Nope, just an old ('08?) 24" iMac. I'm not sure retina would make their poor color choices(the blue folders are horrendously loud) or lack of gradients/shadows.

Nope, didn't backup. It's the wife's desktop, so if it died, nothing of importance would be lost. Besides, I backed up a few months ago when I upgraded to a SSD.

Re:Well, no one else here said it yet...

[BasilBrush]

Many of the people who criticised the iOS7 UI have got used to it, and now think the iOS6 UI looks very old fashioned when they see it.

For stuff like colours, gradients and shadows, it's simply a matter of getting used to something new.

I do think though that there are some cases where graphics and text show jaggies on non Retina displays, because they were designed for Retina which doesn't have that problem.

Swift must be a good programming language...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, that takes be back to the late 90s and early 2000s with all the Java hype when we needed 10-15 years experience in Java to get a job.

What I really think happened was HR-types and headhunters, just did a search and replace for C and C++ in all job postings and replaced it with Java. I mean they couldn't have been that clueless, or could they?

Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[jellomizer]

The issue I have with Windows 8, and OS X.10 is the fact that they are trying to make the OS into the next tablet/mobile OS.

Yes the Table/Mobile market is eating up the Desktop share. But this hybrid doesn't make things better. The need for your desktop PC/Mac is for more serious work. And we need a more serious OS for the job.
The new OS needs to be less worried about grandma or the kid who wants to go online. It needs to become a serious Work Station solution. This includes better task switching, and viewing job status. Control of the performance in real time. Data retrieval and backup, and presenting the data in a clean uncluttered manner.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[MachineShedFred]

The issue I have with Windows 8, and OS X.10 is the fact that they are trying to make the OS into the next tablet/mobile OS.

No, they aren't. At least, not Apple.

They are making your Mac work with your iDevice more seamlessly. There's a pretty big distinction there.

Anyone claiming this is akin to Windows 7 -> Windows 8 isn't paying attention. For one, Apple has never (and still doesn't) ship a touchscreen Mac, so it would be quite ridiculous to put a touch-centric UI on OS X. OS X is still clearly ruled by the mouse / trackpad and keyboard, and will be for the foreseeable future for one very good reason - OS X is where the content for iOS is made, and iOS is where the content made on OS X is consumed.

That is the business model for Apple, and very close to what Google is doing too if you haven't noticed. They haven't exactly been whipping people to get Android onto laptops - that's what ChromeOS is for.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[angel'o'sphere]

Apple will most certainly once ship touch screen Mac Books and Desktop computers.
There are simply far to many scenarios where such a devise is useful.
I'm pretty sure a MacBook Air, with touchscreen, and the option to 'fold away' the keyboard is already in the making.

Well I use a MacBook Air with a iPad as second screen. I'm developing a small touch based IDE ... programming in a 'minority report' style is simply incredible fast ...

The problem right now is that 'touch interfaces' are still not fully understood ... or lets say, perfectioning them is still a long way to go.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[Savage-Rabbit]

The issue I have with Windows 8, and OS X.10 is the fact that they are trying to make the OS into the next tablet/mobile OS.

No, they aren't. At least, not Apple.

They are making your Mac work with your iDevice more seamlessly. There's a pretty big distinction there.

Anyone claiming this is akin to Windows 7 -> Windows 8 isn't paying attention. For one, Apple has never (and still doesn't) ship a touchscreen Mac, so it would be quite ridiculous to put a touch-centric UI on OS X. OS X is still clearly ruled by the mouse / trackpad and keyboard, and will be for the foreseeable future for one very good reason - OS X is where the content for iOS is made, and iOS is where the content made on OS X is consumed.

That is the business model for Apple, and very close to what Google is doing too if you haven't noticed. They haven't exactly been whipping people to get Android onto laptops - that's what ChromeOS is for.

I agree, having used iPads with a bluetooth keyboard and regular Windows Laptops with a touch screen as well as regular laptops I have to say I prefer the old fashioned keyboard+touchpad combination when using any laptop irrespective of whether it runs Windows, Linux or OS X because I can keep my hands on the keyboard most of the time and move the cursor with my thumb or index finger. I find that browsing, for example, goes significantly faster on OS X than it goes on iOS even with a BT keyboard because the arrow keys don't work on iOS and I have to constantly move my hand from the keyboard to do stuff like pick an item from a drop-down list or scroll down a page because the arrow keys don't work for this stuff in iOS. Touch screen devices have their uses, they are great for reading, gaming, watching movies, etc. but touch screens are no substitute for a touchpad, at least not yet.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[Anonymous Coward]

"That is the business model for Apple, and very close to what Google is doing too if you haven't noticed. They haven't exactly been whipping people to get Android onto laptops - that's what ChromeOS is for."

Except you can only create Android apps on Linux, Windows and OS X. Not on ChromeOS ... Actually you can't do anything but run a web browser on ChromeOS.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[mozumder]

I have never wanted a touch-screen hybrid Mac.

Ever.

Apple sells very specific appliances that are best absolute at what they do. They don't need to sell a toaster-refrigerator. You're better off buying a toaster and a refrigerator separately.

Apple could have made one of those horrible hybrid devices in the last 7 years since they introduced the iPhone. The fact that they had absolutely no desire to do so should tell you everything you need to know about what they think of those types of devices.

The failure of Windows 8 is vindication of that strategy. Apple won.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[Anonymous Coward]

No they won't because they already have multi-touch trackpads which are better than getting fingerprints all over your screen for no reason.
I should remind you that the oils on your fingers have no known solvent. that's why archivists and people who handle valuable things use the white gloves. That's why fingerprints are such a valuable law enforcement tool. You can smear the oils but not completely remove them.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[antdude]

I wonder why Apple hasn't made touch screens for desktops and (laptop/notebook)s.

I don't like the gestures for mousepads and others though. Why remove the vertical scrollbars when a mouse is not connected? I have to use two fingers to scroll up/down. :(

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[Pseudonym]

It will be interesting to see reviews from all those people who spend most of their day running Pro Tools, Ableton, Final Cut Pro, etc. Anything which reduces screen real estate for those people will be an undeniable net loss.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[Pseudonym]

Why remove the vertical scrollbars when a mouse is not connected?

Because 99% of the time, that's also when the big external screen isn't connected. I quite like this feature.

Re:Desktop is dying we need a good Workstation OS

[MachineShedFred]

I think it's partially because vertical touchscreens are ergonomically terrible. And, with the emphasis on thin and light, the addition of a digitizer would create thickness they don't want, and the use of said touchscreen would cantilever the base of your notebook off the desk and slam it back down repeatedly.

Plus, the usage of a touchscreen on a keyboard-centric device just sucks. I'm typing - oh, now I have to reach full arm at the display with my wrist at a weird angle, now I have to find the home row again, now I have to reach full arm extension again, etc. With a trackpad, you can just move one hand an inch or two, and be right back where you were. And good luck trying to actually hit some of these checkboxes / window widgets with your meaty appendage - most of them are less than 32 x 32 px.

There's a reason why a lot of people like the "cat tongue" / "mouse nipple" on Windows laptops - you can use it with even less hand movement from the keyboard, and far more accurately. I'm hoping that touchscreen laptops are nothing more than yet another fad that will go away.

First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently started a new role, where we predominately use Macs. As a long-term Linux user, I thought this would be a good opportunity to try out Macs, in case one day I decided to switch. Initially, I was very impressed, but after a few days, I find the whole thing to be dumbed down, unnecessarily.

• Compared to Dolphin, I find Finder far too limited, especially the inability to show hidden files. I've got no idea why there is no such menu toggle built into it. What are Apple afraid of? This is especially annoying when I have to look for .m2 and .git files. Sure, I can use the command line, but it's not as intuitive.
• 
  The mouse scrolling was odd; the whole concept of "accelerating" while operating the wheel doesn't feel as natural as moving 2-3 lines with each movement. I had to download an app to get it the way I wanted (or, the same as it works in Windows and KDE).
• 
  It took me ages to realise that Command-Tab cycles through open applications, but not the windows. I found several windows all hidden behind one another that had been there for days, because OS X's window manager didn't present them to me. Apparently, I have to use Expose or something like that to see all of them.
• 
  Oddly, most things on Mac are Command+. However, on the command line, Ctrl+C is still used to break a program.
• 
  My Mac has been set up to be case insensitive. LS, GrEp, cAT, TAIl all behave as if they had been typed lowercase.
• 
  Pressing home and end take me to the top and bottom of the document, rather than the line I'm edit, making me have to do some finger gymnastics when I want to highlight an entire line I'm working on. That's probably just personal preference, though.
• 
  I'm not entirely sure why, when I click on the green plus, some windows will resize to fill the whole screen, while others will just get a little larger. Is that configurable somewhere..?

Maybe KDE has spoiled me, with its lashings of customisation options, but I can see if I were to switch to a Mac, I'd spend a lot of time downloading hacks and scripts to bring back the features I like to work with, and other scripts to do away with those that I don't. Can't see myself switching to a Mac any time soon, if I'm being totally fair.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

Compared to Dolphin, I find Finder far too limited, especially the inability to show hidden files. I've got no idea why there is no such menu toggle built into it. What are Apple afraid of? This is especially annoying when I have to look for .m2 and .git files. Sure, I can use the command line, but it's not as intuitive.

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall finder

The mouse scrolling was odd; the whole concept of "accelerating" while operating the wheel doesn't feel as natural as moving 2-3 lines with each movement. I had to download an app to get it the way I wanted (or, the same as it works in Windows and KDE).

The scrolling behaviour is designed to work with touch pads, because they're the primary analog interaction device on OS X, I'd strongly suggest you grab one.

It took me ages to realise that Command-Tab cycles through open applications, but not the windows. I found several windows all hidden behind one another that had been there for days, because OS X's window manager didn't present them to me. Apparently, I have to use Expose or something like that to see all of them.

Correct, exposé is the right tool for this job. You can also use cmnd-` to cycle through windows within an application.

Oddly, most things on Mac are Command+. However, on the command line, Ctrl+C is still used to break a program.

That would be because there are well established unixisms at the terminal. This has the substantial advantage that even in a terminal window, you can still use cmnd-c to copy things without losing ctrl-c to kill applications. Note, a lot of common terminal shortcuts like ctrl-a and ctrl-e for start and end of the line work throughout the OS.

My Mac has been set up to be case insensitive. LS, GrEp, cAT, TAIl all behave as if they had been typed lowercase.

So? Why is this an issue?

Pressing home and end take me to the top and bottom of the document, rather than the line I'm edit, making me have to do some finger gymnastics when I want to highlight an entire line I'm working on. That's probably just personal preference, though.

As I said above ctrl-a and ctrl-e. Also cmmd-left arrow and cmnd-right arrow.

I'm not entirely sure why, when I click on the green plus, some windows will resize to fill the whole screen, while others will just get a little larger.

This was changed in Yosemite, the green plus now full screens all apps. The reason for the odd behaviour is because of a lot of windows devs failing to understand what that button was meant to do. The original behaviour in Mac OS was to make the window exactly big enough to hold the content in it, and no bigger. Lots of people implemented it as maximise though.

Maybe KDE has spoiled me, with its lashings of customisation options, but I can see if I were to switch to a Mac, I'd spend a lot of time downloading hacks and scripts to bring back the features I like to work with, and other scripts to do away with those that I don't. Can't see myself switching to a Mac any time soon, if I'm being totally fair.

So what you're saying is that on Linux you're willing to install the appropriate software to make the machine behave like you want it, but on Mac OS, having to install software is unreasonable?

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Cinder6]

Cycle through windows: Command + `

Move cursor to beginning/end of line: Command + Left/Right

Case insensitivity: You can enable this, but there might be repercussions

Green plus: Only maximizes windows in Yosemite. Schizophrenic behavior is gone. The original idea was that it would resize the window to be exactly as large as it needed to be in order to show all its content, but it was often confusing.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[jittles]

My Mac has been set up to be case insensitive. LS, GrEp, cAT, TAIl all behave as if they had been typed lowercase.

So? Why is this an issue?

Linux filesystems are, by default, case sensitive. I can have Foo.bar and foo.bar in the same directory. If my source control is set up properly, I can see and work with both files properly on Linux but not on Mac OS. You can use a case-sensitive filesystem in MacOS, but last time I tried the OS itself was very buggy and unpredictable when dealing with files. Perhaps this has been fixed since 10.8, I don't know, but the general rule of thumb is to NOT use a case-sensitive FS on MacOS.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Dixie_Flatline]

You may want to look into uBar (ubarapp.com)--I've heard good things about it. I'm considering it myself, though I've never had problems with the dock.

Different systems have different control paradigms. The fact that things don't work the way you expect doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're different.

For instance, cycling through open applications makes a lot more sense to me. I really like that I can raise a single window without bringing the entire application to the front. This is something that consistently infuriates me in Windows with certain applications. I also like that an inactive window that you have your cursor in will still respond to the scroll wheel. (I know that's something that works in most XWindows window managers, but it doesn't in my Windows work environment.)

Anyway, a lot of the functionality can be hidden, but that's why Macs are popular among us that are buying computers for other people. Most of what you want is available in some form or another. You may have to learn some new tricks, just as I'd have to relearn a bunch of tricks if I went back to Linux or OpenBSD. Context switches are never free.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Princeofcups]

I recently started a new role, where we predominately use Macs. As a long-term Linux user, I thought this would be a good opportunity to try out Macs, in case one day I decided to switch. Initially, I was very impressed, but after a few days, I find the whole thing to be dumbed down, unnecessarily.

• Compared to Dolphin, I find Finder far too limited, especially the inability to show hidden files. I've got no idea why there is no such menu toggle built into it. What are Apple afraid of? This is especially annoying when I have to look for .m2 and .git files. Sure, I can use the command line, but it's not as intuitive.

A little googling would help you with all these issues.

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles -bool YES

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

I can have Foo.bar and foo.bar in the same directory.

But was that ever a good idea?

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

New user has to learn a new way of doing things, news at 11.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[_xeno_]

Green plus: Only maximizes windows in Yosemite. Schizophrenic behavior is gone.

The review disagrees. In windows that don't support full screen, the green + still does whatever it is that it does, and if for some reason you want to do that on windows with real fullscreen support, you can Option-click the green dot.

Which means that in Yosemite, clicking on the green dot will either take you into fullscreen mode or do who even knows when it's a plus and not a pair of arrows. I'm not sure that's really an improvement if you want to remove "schizophrenic behavior."

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[_xeno_]

Compared to Dolphin, I find Finder far too limited, especially the inability to show hidden files. I've got no idea why there is no such menu toggle built into it. What are Apple afraid of? This is especially annoying when I have to look for .m2 and .git files. Sure, I can use the command line, but it's not as intuitive.

Others have pointed out the hidden preference to change this, but since that's incredibly unintuitive and very annoying, I'll offer a different method.

If you only want to descend into a hidden directory that you know exists, you can use Shift-Command-G and enter the path directly. This will open the Finder window inside that path. You won't see any hidden files (other than the specific directory you're in) but it's the "quick and easy" way of entering hidden directories.

But I agree, there really, really should be a toggle somewhere to show hidden files. It shouldn't be all or nothing. When I need to see hidden files, I need to see them, but having my home folder filled with...

$ ls -d1 ~/.* | wc -l
38

38 little folders I generally don't need to see is incredibly obnoxious. I'd absolutely love to be able to toggle hidden folders on and off. The "hidden setting" method involves completely restarting Finder.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[arkhan_jg]

I'm also a linux user that's ended up on OSX due to management.

Totalfinder is less essential than it used to be, but it's still damn useful for fixing most of the flaws in finder, not least because it adds a shortcut to toggle hidden files/folders, shift-cmd-.

Like you, I've got an acceleration fix to make it work linearly - just what I'm used to, and I use windows + linux at home, so it makes more sense to change OSX.

I've found having a magic trackpad pretty handy for the gesture support. It works fine as your sole pointer, but I find it a bit wearing on my fingertip, so still use a real mouse for that (I hate the apple mice). But the trackpad is next to my other hand, and the gestures for swiping sideways between fullscreen apps (including parallels), swipe up for mission control (all windows and Spaces) and swipe down (current app windows) are quite useful, and I don't have to take my hand off my mouse to do them.

While there are alternative shortcuts for end/start line, I just remap home and end to work that way, using Karabiner (free).
The case insensitive thing you just have to live with. It is possible to format and reinstall OSX on case-sensitive HFS+, but it will break some stuff in subtle ways.

App wise, apart from total finder, you definitely want iterm2, and sublime text. Best terminal and text editor, respectively - and sublime text works on linux and windows too, which is awesome.

I have got used to running OSX most of the time at the office. I haven't had to make that many changes, and it does make a really nice coding setup - much nicer than windows for managing/coding linux hosted webapps etc. Lets not kid ourselves, we always make tweaks and changes to any OS to get it the way we like - I know I don't leave kubuntu in stock settings for long, or windows! Would I pay the price premium for a mac at home? Hell no, I much prefer being able to rebuild my own hardware. But when someone else is paying the bill? I can live with them.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

Finder *is* way too limited. I suggest looking into http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/ . The guys that develop this software are totally responsive to user requests and bug submissions, and the software is worth every penny. I also recommend their fix to spaces (apple's iteration of virtual desktops) which is even more impressive http://totalspaces.binaryage.com/ . Coming from the linux world, I'm not used to pay for this kind of software but I think that in this case it makes total sense.

Mouse scroll: that's odd, I found the mac scrolling to be superior from the start (I still need to invert the direction in the last few osx versions though), but I guess this kind of preferences are very personal.

Window cycling: actually, the way macosx works is superior. Like Cinder6 said, you have to use also "Command + `", which cycles between windows of the *same* application; this means that your windows are neatly separated in different, focus-ordered lists by application. You can get to the desired window much much faster this way.

Case insensitivity: the first time I thought it was incredibly odd but in the end it didn't make any difference, to me at least.

Green button: that's how it works. maximization is context sensitive / application dependent. I suggest trying the open source http://spectacleapp.com/ . It offers customizable shortcuts for a lot of useful window operations, very simple to use, among them you can choose a shortcut for old school maximization.

You didn't ask, but I also suggest a terminal app different from the default one: http://iterm2.com/ is open source and IMHO better than any linux terminal I've ever worked with.

Having to customize/script/hack etc: this happens/happened to me with every single desktop environment or window manager I ever used or currently use. Still, even despising a lot of choices Apple has made or is doing, I find macosx to offer the best experience right now. It's been said a gazillion times, but the quality of font rendering is incredible, and when you think that you spend most of your time looking at fonts on the screen, well, just that is a grat feature to begin with.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to move from Linux to Mac a couple years ago. Here's something that helped me out a lot..

Create the directory ~/Library/KeyBindings/ and add the file DefaultKeyBinding.dict. Here's my DefaultKeyBinding.dict which map a bunch of Linux friendly keybindings to what you might be used to.

/* ~/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict */
{
                "^f" = "moveWordForward:"; /* Ctrl-f = next word */
                "^b" = "moveWordBackward:"; /* Ctrl-b = previous word */
                "^v" = "pageUp:"; /* Ctrl-v = page up */
                "\UF729" = "moveToBeginningOfLine:"; /* Home = start of line */
                "^\UF729" = "moveToBeginningOfDocument:"; /* Ctrl-Home = start of doc */
                "^u" = "deleteToBeginningOfLine:"; /* Ctrl-u = delete from curser to beginning of line */
                "@d" = "deleteWordForward:"; /* Command-F */
                "~^h" = "deleteWordBackward:"; /* M-C-h */
                "~\010" = "deleteWordBackward:"; /* M-backspace */
                "~\177" = "deleteWordBackward:"; /* M-delete */
                "@\U007F" = "deleteWordBackward:"; /* Cmd-Backspace */
}

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[BasilBrush]

especially the inability to show hidden files.

It's a power user option. Open terminal., and type the following:

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall Finder

The rest of your points are simply a matter of you being used to something different. If and when you get used to the Mac way, and you go use a Windows or Linux computer, you'll think they are odd.

Maybe KDE has spoiled me, with its lashings of customisation options, but I can see if I were to switch to a Mac, I'd spend a lot of time downloading hacks and scripts to bring back the features I like to work with, and other scripts to do away with those that I don't.

That's not the way to go. OSX is not KDE, trying to make it so is pointless. Just as trying to make KDE like Windows would be.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[nine-times]

I'm not trying to convince you to like OSX, but just to attempt to give an explanation:

Compared to Dolphin, I find Finder far too limited, especially the inability to show hidden files. I've got no idea why there is no such menu toggle built into it. What are Apple afraid of? This is especially annoying when I have to look for .m2 and .git files. Sure, I can use the command line, but it's not as intuitive.

As someone who provides support for general users, I think Apple has handled this reasonably well. There are a lot of hidden files that a lot of people would find confusing. There are .DS_Store files and .Trash folders, along with the /etc directory in the root. If they had a little button on the Finder to "show hidden files", I have no doubt that there would be a lot of users who would hit it, see all the "Junk" in places they didn't like, and try to delete it.

Apple provides a option to show all files that can easily be changed from the command line. If you have trouble making this change, then you're not someone who should see those files. Seems reasonable to me.

The mouse scrolling was odd; the whole concept of "accelerating" while operating the wheel doesn't feel as natural as moving 2-3 lines with each movement. I had to download an app to get it the way I wanted (or, the same as it works in Windows and KDE).

Seems like a preference issue. To each his own, I guess. I thought you were going to complain about the "natural scrolling", which is something I'd have a lot more sympathy for, but which is also an option that can easily be changed.

It took me ages to realise that Command-Tab cycles through open applications, but not the windows. I found several windows all hidden behind one another that had been there for days, because OS X's window manager didn't present them to me. Apparently, I have to use Expose or something like that to see all of them.

Again, seems like a bit of an issue of preference. Ultimately, Apple's logical breakdown of running processes is much more aimed at whole applications rather than windows. Notice that each application has one button on the dock, regardless of how many windows you have open. Notice that you can often close all the windows of an application without closing the application. Notice that you can (depending on some thing) close the application without actually closing the windows, i.e. the application closes and the windows disappear, but when you reopen the application, the windows are all there where you left them.

Their approach is sensible, and it doesn't seem to be obviously wrong, but I can understand why you'd want it the other way.

Oddly, most things on Mac are Command+. However, on the command line, Ctrl+C is still used to break a program.

In my opinion, it's actually fairly nice that way. You can use Command+C to paste text into a terminal window, and Ctrl+C to break the current program. Less confusing than windows, where the short-cut's effect will change depending on context. In fact, Microsoft has been advertising the ability to use Ctrl-V to paste into a command line in Windows 10. Apparently, it's one of Windows 10's biggest features.

My Mac has been set up to be case insensitive. LS, GrEp, cAT, TAIl all behave as if they had been typed lowercase.

Yeah, this is... well... it's a bit unfortunate because it can cause some confusion. It's an issue with their file system (HFS+), which has been made semi-case-sensitive. For example, you can do "mkdir tEsT\ dIrEcToRy" and you'll get a directory called "tEsT dIrEcToRy", maintaining the case that you types in. However, if you then type "rmdir 'Test Directory'" then it will delete it. Essentially, it's case-sensitive when writing but not case-sensitive when reading.

The reason for this, to a

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[jafac]

You seem to have nailed on the head, pretty much all the "big problems" in OS X. Where I work, there was a huge migration from PC's to OS X, probably starting around 2003-2004-ish. The hardware (macbook pro) is actually among the best in the industry. Especially right now (omitting the 2011 models that had the NVidia defect, and Apple's appallingly bad handling of that). (Yeah - apple is really bad at acknowledging hardware defects, for a company that charges exceedingly "premium" price-points). Many of our developers switched, and they all pretty much have the same complaints.

The biggest gripe for me is the window (and tab) switching. Holy crap, it's terrible - compared to any other OS out there. Another big one is that there's no "home" or "page up" "page down" keys, and you have to use the fn-arrow key combinations.

A lot of the keybindings for terminal makes sense; but for some reason, you can't ctrl+a in minicom. That sucks, because you basically have to kill the program to exit. (and it's also useless, because you can't get into the config menu).

Anyway: If you really hate Mac OS, then you can simply install Windows 7, or Ubuntu. (Fedora also works, but I haven't figured out how to get the drivers for fan and cpu scaling to work right, so. . . heat, fans, crappy battery-life). The hardware makes an excellent platform for either Windows 7 or Ubuntu. (I don't think that there's another laptop in the world right now, on which, you can get a 6+ hr battery life, with Windows or Ubuntu).

I think the worst-case here, is someone who's a KDE nut, going to OS X. They are polar-opposites, in terms of customiseability.

The only reason I continue to use OS X, is because I'm invested in VMWare Fusion. It's a pretty nice product, and I use it a lot in my work.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[BasilBrush]

It's a shame they differ. But let's face it, actually having Foo.bar and foo.bar, or worse still Foo.bar and Foo.BAR in the same directory is a silly thing to do.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Dixie_Flatline]

I prefer the OS X method of window/application switching. But more to the point, I think expose is a better method than the alt-tab method, straight up. You can do it for all windows or just the application you're in. I've always found it faster. It's something I miss when I'm on other systems. (I've tried the Windows versions, but I've yet to find one that's nearly as good.)

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[AqD]

It looked really awesome when you're not using it, I had been dreaming to have a real mac ever since I saw Emacs on it. But I installed old OS back on mac mini right after one month.

It wasn't a computer for work and I could stop coding, photoshopping and all the complex stuff. All I wanted in the last days is to surf the web, but the browser doesn't even allow me to sort my bookmarks!

F*** it

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[jittles]

It's a shame they differ. But let's face it, actually having Foo.bar and foo.bar, or worse still Foo.bar and Foo.BAR in the same directory is a silly thing to do.

I agree that it is not a best practice, but I have dealt with this issue before. Usually caused by someone who doesn't realize that they're dealing with a case-sensitive filesystem.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Guy Harris]

Oddly, most things on Mac are Command+. However, on the command line, Ctrl+C is still used to break a program.

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

On most other UN*X desktops, most keyboard sequences for copying are Ctrl+C, and, on the command line, Ctrl+C is used to break a program, but, in the terminal emulator window, you have to use Shift+Ctrl+C to copy, because, well, you still use Ctrl+C to break a program, just as you've done for a while on UN*X (back to the 1980's, at least, if you used BSD back then, otherwise more like the 1990's when it displaced DEL).

On OS X, most keyboard sequences for copying are Ctrl+C, including copying in the terminal emulator window, and you still use Ctrl+C to break a program, so you can still use Ctrl+C the way God^WDigital Equipment Corporation intended, and the way it works on most UN*Xes these days, but you can use the same key sequence for copying in Terminal that you use elsewhere.

My Mac has been set up to be case insensitive. LS, GrEp, cAT, TAIl all behave as if they had been typed lowercase.

Yes, the OS X file system is set up as case-insensitive by default, so file names - including command names - don't have to be typed with the exact case of the file name.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall finder

lol and apple fanboys say linux is hard because you "have to" use cli... fucking idiot isheeps :D

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

"This was changed in Yosemite, the green plus now full screens all apps. The reason for the odd behaviour is because of a lot of windows devs failing to understand what that button was meant to do. The original behaviour in Mac OS was to make the window exactly big enough to hold the content in it, and no bigger. Lots of people implemented it as maximise though."

As it should. "Mac way" was always broken by design, Windows and Linux had it right.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

Green plus: Only maximizes windows in Yosemite. Schizophrenic behavior is gone. The original idea was that it would resize the window to be exactly as large as it needed to be in order to show all its content, but it was often confusing.

I really fucking hated that "happysize" button. I had one occasion that I clicked it and the window got smaller. So I clicked again. Smaller still. This went on until all I had was the window bar. Fucking retarded by design, just to be different.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[pubwvj]

Your funny. Wish I had points to give you for humor. You claim to be a power user but everything you want to do in life is quite easy, hit the Terminal, or even the settings alone, and customize things a bit. Complaining about your wallpaper colors not matching is not very power userish.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

"defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall finder"

Command line-only setting to see hidden files in the GUI? Bad design.

The scrolling behaviour is designed to work with touch pads, because they're the primary analog interaction device on OS X, I'd strongly suggest you grab one.

Far less precise. Works for people playing, not people working.

Correct, exposÃf© is the right tool for this job. You can also use cmnd-` to cycle through windows within an application.

Extra work for a simple task, bad design

That would be because there are well established unixisms at the terminal. This has the substantial advantage that even in a terminal window, you can still use cmnd-c to copy things without losing ctrl-c to kill applications. Note, a lot of common terminal shortcuts like ctrl-a and ctrl-e for start and end of the line work throughout the OS.

Agree, I lilke this in OS X.

So? Why is this an issue?

Agree, not that bad. It's a problem when it comes to interoperability with other BSD / UNIX systems, thought this can be worked around. If formated case *sensitive* HFS+, there are some things that don't work, unfortunately.

As I said above ctrl-a and ctrl-e. Also cmmd-left arrow and cmnd-right arrow.

Bad design. Home and End should work as in every other system, the other shotcuts should be the "Apple Custom" ones.

This was changed in Yosemite, the green plus now full screens all apps. The reason for the odd behaviour is because of a lot of windows devs failing to understand what that button was meant to do. The original behaviour in Mac OS was to make the window exactly big enough to hold the content in it, and no bigger. Lots of people implemented it as maximise though.

Wondered this myself, thanks.

So what you're saying is that on Linux you're willing to install the appropriate software to make the machine behave like you want it, but on Mac OS, having to install software is unreasonable?

No, you're misreading. In KDE, one sets options. In OS X, one hacks, if cusomization is possible at all.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[spitzak]

Since it considers different numbers of spaces to be different filenames, and considers greek and russian letters that look identical to latin ones to be different filenames, and lots of other things that are much easier to confuse, yes this is a good idea. At least it is consistent.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[spitzak]

It's an issue with their file system (HFS+), which has been made semi-case-sensitive. For example, you can do "mkdir tEsT\ dIrEcToRy" and you'll get a directory called "tEsT dIrEcToRy", maintaining the case that you types in. However, if you then type "rmdir 'Test Directory'" then it will delete it. Essentially, it's case-sensitive when writing but not case-sensitive when reading.

What it is doing is called "case-preserving". That's what Windows does too. It is always "case insensitive".

The problem with this is that the rule for whether two strings identify the same file is obscenely complex if you want full Unicode support (plus it will change as Unicode is updated). Most systems give up and only are "case insensitive" for a subset of possible case matches, such as only the ASCII letters. Not using the same rules in different places causes further problems. OS/X has a lot of problems by insisting on "normalization" of filenames, resulting in completely unexpected collisions and renames for files from Unix and Windows.

I think Unix has the best system: if the strings of bytes are different then they are different files. This moves all problems out of file system support and up to the application level where it is much easier to deal with.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. That never happened since it is used to resize the window to fit the contents and resize it back to its starting position. It never went down a size each iteration. You are pulling that out of your ass. What not just blame it on Obama or the illegals?

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

>The scrolling behaviour is designed to work with touch pads, because they're the primary analog interaction device on OS X, I'd strongly suggest you grab one.

I loathe touch pads, so no.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[garote]

"defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall finder"

Command line-only setting to see hidden files in the GUI? Bad design.

If you like you can download a dumb little application to do it for you that one time. Or you can add a context-menu to do it on the fly. The vast majority of OS X users should not be seeing hidden files, it would only confuse their work. What's bad design is leaving that option around with all the others where they can discover and toggle it and then accidentally f*% up their systems.

Are you saying you want a "pro version" of the GUI to be bundled with the OS? I suppose that would be nice for you, but it would suck for developers, who now have to support two completely different GUIs for the same platform.

The scrolling behaviour is designed to work with touch pads, because they're the primary analog interaction device on OS X, I'd strongly suggest you grab one.

Far less precise. Works for people playing, not people working.

Don't knock those trackpads until you've tried them. It's actually possible to be very precise indeed, because the surface even senses changes in the "center of contact" of your finger, i.e. if you roll your finger forward slightly, that registers as movement. Compare this to the mouse, where your accuracy is limited to how slowly you can push an object on a flat surface by flexing your hand.

The difference here is like playing the guitar with a pick, and playing the guitar with your fingers.

Correct, exposÃf© is the right tool for this job. You can also use cmnd-` to cycle through windows within an application.

Extra work for a simple task, bad design

Not sure what you mean by "extra work". There are five different UI mechanisms for sorting windows on OS X.

1. command-tab plus command-~. Hold down "shift" to cycle up the stack instead of down. Mouse over an icon to select it in the stack.
2. Expose, via extra mouse button, trackpad gesture, or key combination.
3. Flip between screens, with trackpad gesture, or key combination.
4. Raise the dock, click on an icon
5. Command-H to hide your foreground app and send it to the bottom of the stack, bringing the next app into context.

Or if you really love spotlight, command-spacebar, a few letters of the app you want foregrounded, and the return key.
And of course there's the old favorite: Move the freakin' mouse and drag the window into view.

And here's a tip: Most of these, along with exposing the desktop, work from the keyboard while you're dragging something with the mouse. You can do some really sneaky things this way!

As I said above ctrl-a and ctrl-e. Also cmmd-left arrow and cmnd-right arrow.

Bad design. Home and End should work as in every other system, the other shotcuts should be the "Apple Custom" ones.

Given that "every other system" in this case probably refers to two other radically different platforms whose interfaces treat every other function key on the keyboard differently, it doesn't make sense to call this "bad design" just because it's different. 'Home' scrolls the window without moving the cursor, just like 'page up' right next to it, while 'command-up arrow' moves the cursor to the top, just like 'command-left' moves the cursor to the left side. From my subjective point of view, this is more consistent, more useful, and makes more sense.

As an aside, you may not realize it, but the days when Apple's OS design team needed to cater carefully to Windows 'switchers' are actually over.

So what you're saying is that on Linux you're willing to install the appropriate software to make the machine behave like you want it, but on Mac OS, ha

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[bhiestand]

...you definitely want ... sublime text. Best ... text editor

:O WHAT?! Ok, it's pretty good, but still... textmate deserves a mention as well.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Keybounce]

Full-screen was just implemented badly in OS X, to the point that I much prefer "maximize" to full-screen. In fact, I hate full screen.

1. I don't do single-tasking on my computer. Even if I want to have the full screen for a document I'm working on, I am using other apps, or other documents, or other terminal windows, etc., at the same time.

I can switch between maximized windows easily enough. Even if they are in different apps.
I cannot switch between two different full-screen windows easily, whether they are in the same app or not.

2. I use two monitors. Full-screen should mean "This window is the full size of this monitor", or "This window is the full size of my display, both monitors". There are times that I want A, and times that I want B. Let me select it.

*NOT*: "This window is the full size of this monitor, and the second monitor is unusable.

Now, I know what you are going to say: Starting in 10.9, it's possible to have the two monitors separate, giving me two different full-screen windows at the same time.

But that's no-good either. The point of two monitors is to show big things in two places. I can work at 72 DPI (sorry, these are *NOT* 25 year old eyes, they are 50 year old eyes), and still have enough screen space for a window. My main window is 1024x640, and I alternate the second monitor to either 960x640 or 1024x600, depending on whether I need to extend down, or to the right (or, in the case of iMovie, to the left -- keeping the movie on the main monitor at normal size, something that is not possible without this "split over monitor" behavior with iMovie).

3. A full-screen window is not a desktop. It's a window on a desktop, it's just the size of the desktop.

Apple does not understand the concept of "This desktop is for project X".
Apple wants to say "This desktop is for application Y".

Even if a window is full-screen in size, it's still part of project X, and that project involves other apps.

This can be made to work well-enough with maximized windows -- and hidden dock, plus maximized window, is almost as much screen space, and much easier to work with, than full-screen.

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Lord Flipper]

The "hidden setting" method involves completely restarting Finder.

Want to relaunch Finder in about 1 second? From within Finder, anywhere: Cmd-Opt-Esc, click "relaunch" done. Same key combo will call up the Force Quit from within any app

Like any UNIX, you can abort/relaunch any app, process, sub-system, reasonably fast. Or, without shells, courtesy of the Apple GUI. The longer method (with deeper "reach") is Activity Monitor.app in Applications>Utilities

You're welcome

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[Lord Flipper]

But I agree, there really, really should be a toggle somewhere to show hidden files. It shouldn't be all or nothing. When I need to see hidden files, I need to see them, but having my home folder filled with... $ ls -d1 ~/.* | wc -l 38

I'm curious about something. If you have one or two files, or directories that you access often, but don't want the clutter of all the hidden files, all the time, can't you just use the terminal for:

sudo chflags nohidden path/to/file

or does that no longer work in OSX? Pretty sure it works fine, and if you were accessing private, or a sub-directory of /private, well, you wouldn't even have to see it in Home ("~/") in the Finder, anyway, since it's "up" a couple levels, right? neat & clean (oh, and simple)

Re:First taste of Mac OS X

[_xeno_]

As far as I can tell, chflags nohidden does nothing to "." files as far as Finder is concerned.

I can hide other files in Finder using chflags hidden and it hides them immediately (and they then reappear immediately using chflags nohidden) but "." files and directories remain hidden. (This is using Mavericks as IT hasn't approved Yosemite yet.)

OSX finally has object store support

[HockeyPuck]

With the recent announcement, I'm so relieved my favorite object store is now integrated with with OSX.

Yosemite

[Ron Goodman]

The official release must have been the same as Beta 5--no update showed up for me. I've been running it since the first beta without issue, although I was hoping they'd redo the Trash icon.

Re:Yosemite

[Anonymous Coward]

The official release must have been the same as Beta 5--no update showed up for me. I've been running it since the first beta without issue, although I was hoping they'd redo the Trash icon.

Check the build number on your current install just to be sure, the final version is build 14A389.

Re:"All aspects of sibling rivalry banished"? Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, everyone that I've talked to in the hardware business still doesn't believe a touchscreen laptop adds any value. They exist specifically because of marketing hype and touch hysteria.

Planned obsolescence

[Cinder6]

I'm normally one that rolls his eyes when I hear this term, but I think in the case of Yosemite, there's definitely an instance of planned obsolescence. Handoff requires Bluetooth-4.0 (BLE). This is fine. Any Mac that has BLE should work with the feature. And they do...except for the mid-2011 Macbook Air. Luckily, there's a hack you can do with a hex editor and mucking about with kexts. Do so, and the feature works flawlessly. It's ridiculous that Apple would do this.

http://forums.macrumors.com/sh...

Re:Planned obsolescence

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

I'm with you on the eye rolls. I'm not sure how a free upgrade with new features, to an already purchased product constitutes planned obsolescence. I realize language shifts, but planned obsolescence to me is when a product you purchased has a given shelf life where it loses the capability to do what you bought it for. This is a product that still does what you paid for it and actually increased utility, just some features that you didn't pay for anyway you can't use.

Did anyone buy the MacBook in 2011 and say "you know, when they stop charging for OS upgrades, and give out free updates and dozens of new features to the mac and iPhone, i won't be able to use this one new free feature they both get 3 years from now, curse you Apple!"

Re:Planned obsolescence

[Cinder6]

Meh, maybe the wording is wrong, but it's still an annoying thing for Apple to do. The hardware supports it, and the tweak to make it work is trivial--you just enter the hardware identifier into the kext.

Re:Planned obsolescence

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

I'll agree with that... But there is a cost to Apple, in time, money, and support. Maybe it's a bigger hack to them than the machines they planned on. Maybe it's unstable in .1% of configurations. Then that .1% gives their machines a bad name. If you do it as a hack, well, you did it on your own. Your instability is your issue. Or maybe it saps too much battery juice. Maybe the cost/number of machines out there ratio was just substantially worse than some of the newer machines.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, but lets pretend you decided to give away something for free. Say you sold caps and one day you gave away your red hats for free. Then someone bitched that they want a blue hat. They see that the selling prices are the same. Just gimme the damn CAP. But you know that the blue ones cost pretty close to your sales price. You only sell them the same price because you don't think you can get a premium price for them, but are willing to sell for zero profit normally to get people walking in. But, to give away these for free? you just can't justify it with the current cost/future sales argument.

So, the "customer" bitches that they want a free blue cap, and you know it's gonna cost you a lot more to do that. You're doing a huge group (those who are fine with red caps) a favor, but the guy with the blue one bitches you out on Yelp and your sales go down. They don't know what you know, the costs are radically different.

Re:Planned obsolescence

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I have a couple of 2007 Macs, and they're pretty much worthless to me these days. Can't upgrade the OS, Can't update the browser on the old OS, (take your pick -- Chrome, Firefox, Safari, etc.) can't use Netflix on the old browser... There's a lot more I can't do on the old box anymore, but I don't want to get too esoteric and I have more important things to do right now.

Oh, I also have a Windows XP box from 1999. The browser is current and I can watch Netflix, and run my CNC equipment with it too, unlike the 2007 Mac.

Now, don't get the wrong idea. I switched to OSX specifically for its UNIX back-end. I generally prefer OSX over Windows, but there is definitely a system of planned obsoleteness in Apple's hardware line.

Re:Planned obsolescence

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm normally one that rolls his eyes when I hear this term, but I think in the case of Yosemite, there's definitely an instance of planned obsolescence. Handoff requires Bluetooth-4.0 (BLE). This is fine. Any Mac that has BLE should work with the feature. And they do...except for the mid-2011 Macbook Air. Luckily, there's a hack you can do with a hex editor and mucking about with kexts. Do so, and the feature works flawlessly. It's ridiculous that Apple would do this.

http://forums.macrumors.com/sh...

God forbid we progress with the latest technologies.

Moron.

Re:"All aspects of sibling rivalry banished"? Nope

[sideslash]

And yet, everyone that I've talked to in the hardware business still doesn't believe a touchscreen laptop adds any value. They exist specifically because of marketing hype and touch hysteria.

And yet, everyone that I've talked to in the hardware business still doesn't believe a touchscreen laptop adds any value. They exist specifically because of marketing hype and touch hysteria.

You're right, Apple would never do anything driven by marketing hype or touch hysteria.

On a serious note, I love my capacitive touch laptop (running Windows 8.1). As a developer I don't use the touch screen that much except for testing my cross platform, multi-touch enabled apps, but when I do use it "as an end user", it is nice as an extra option. Mostly I find myself gripping the side and casually scrolling a web page with my thumb, or pinching to zoom into a web page, etc.

Now let's get to the easy stuff that is obviously wrong with your post -- nobody said anything about restricting this to laptops. My kids love to use the 24" Windows 8.1 desktop with a screen that tilts, or more accurately reclines backward and down for a more natural angle. Microsoft is (justly) eating Apple's lunch in that particular space until they finish burying Steve Jobs and get around to introducing something. iPads are nice, but they aren't a 24" touch screen.

Your microwave is a computer, too.

[Brannon]

Can you program it? It is perfectly reasonable for lots of people to want a "mobile device as an appliance", if that's not your brand of tea then shop elsewhere.

I thought we were done with all this walled-garden hysteria.

Re:Your microwave is a computer, too.

[mrchaotica]

That depends: if the microwave is the kind with only a mechanical dial timer, then no. If it's the kind with a number pad interface and presets, then I expect to be able to program presets. If it can read email (I'm not even joking -- see "Messages Sending Function"), then I expect to be able to program it like a general-purpose computer.

Re:Your microwave is a computer, too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto for xbox and playstation. walled garden is just an argument for people with nothing intelligent to say.

They're kidding right?

[AqD]

We have had themes like that on Linux desktop for decades. Terrible OS/X mocks and compromises for the unstylish layout they make on desktop apps. Even KDE looks better than that now.

Did they fire all Aqua designers and fill the seats with Unix geeks instead?

Re:They're kidding right?

[laffer1]

No, even Unix geeks have more style. It was this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

yawn.

[nblender]

I need to look deeper but so far there's been 12 pages of "these buttons look different" and "the window titles are now vibrant!" but nothing about how applications actually work the way they should now ... So far I still don't see any real advantage to moving up from 10.6.8...

Unless I missed them fixing some of my nits:

- When you move a mail message out of your inbox, one option needs to be "move this to the same folder you previously moved messages _from_this_sender_"
- When I switch desktops, it should leave me in whatever app I'm currently in, not switch to Finder...

LIKE "within window" vibrancy, HATE flattening

[Anonymous Coward]

Flattening: all bad. I don't know how anyone wouldn't be laughing at them over this. This is the final nail in the coffin of "Aqua" but Aqua was one of the besthings Apple ever came up with.

"Within window" vibrancy: I think this is fucking awesome, and I love it. It's basically "free" second-rate vertical space, within your windows. ("Second-rate" make it sound like I'm back-handedly complementing it, but I don't mean it that way at all, since it's free space, an add on. It's like it you prefer ice cream over cherries, but someone puts a cherry on top of your ice cream. As long as you don't hate cherries, then you came out ahead since they didn't take away any of your ice cream.)

"Behind window" vibrancy: old hat; many of us have been doing stuff like this since the late 1990s. Not bad, but nothing to get excited about. And overall I think these kinds of effects should be very subtle, at most -- but that's what they did, so it's ok.

Overall net effect on appearance: negative. Upgrade for functional reasons if you can find them, but you're going to pay an uglification price for that.

Ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac OS X Yosemite should be called Mac OS X Barstow since it's so flat and ugly.

Icons

[mccoma]

The icons on this release are mostly horrible. I replaced the finder with the one from a previous version and will probably replace the bright folder icons. I like the gray sidebar icons in finder and wish they had used full size versions instead of the horrible bright blue.

It runs a program internally

[Brannon]

that implements the application of cooking something--why don't you expect to be able to re-write that program? Why don't you expect that you can re-write the code on the dozen micro-controllers in your car, or your refrigerator. What about your cable box? your DVR? your DVD player? How about that PS3 your kids play?

You probably own a few dozen processors which are similarly handicapped by the manufacturer to function as an appliance.

Your ethical criteria is arbitrarily created to castigate Apple for doing the same thing that hundreds of other manufacturers have done over the last 100 years. The point of technology is not "to let you tinker"--the point is to perform a specific function. Enabling tinkering is valuable and there are lots of computers made for that purpose (including Apple's entire Mac line)--but it is hardly the only valuable thing out there.

Re:It runs a program internally

[mrchaotica]

Why don't you expect that you can re-write the code on the dozen micro-controllers in your car

I do, and I have (or more precisely, I paid somebody else to do it for me). In my case, the guy had to remove the ECU and de-solder the memory in order to flash it; on newer models it can be done thorugh the ODB II port -- I consider that to be an improvement.

Incidentally, you can get a lot more horsepower out of most turbodiesels that way.

On other cars from the same manufacturer, some people re-flash their window control module so they can roll down their windows using their keyless entry. My car had that feature already enabled, so I didn't need to mess with it.

or your refrigerator

My refrigerator is old and dumb. But if it weren't, I would indeed expect to be able to hack it.

What about your cable box?

When I had cable (against my will -- only because the cable company charged less for internet + TV than they did for internet by itself that year) I used an HDHomeRun with a CableCard.

your DVR?

I use an HTPC specifically because I can program it!

your DVD player?

It's a drive in the afore-mentioned HTPC.

How about that PS3 your kids play?

I boycott all Sony products (especially Playstations) as a matter of principle. I was starting to consider forgiving them for the rootkit, but then they removed OtherOS. Sony is dead to me.

Your ethical criteria is arbitrarily created to castigate Apple for doing the same thing that hundreds of other manufacturers have done over the last 100 years.

Nope. I apply the same standard to everything else I buy.

I'm genuinely worried acceptable new products will cease being made (which is, of course, the reason for my rule in the first place).

You probably own a few dozen processors which are similarly handicapped by the manufacturer to function as an appliance.

Try me.

Still some funky bugs, but not bad.

[BLToday]

Been using it since yesterday. Yeah, I live dangerously. So far, mostly a good upgrade. I like the new look, modern with a reasonable level of skeuomorphism so I can still feature out the functions of the icons.

Tested: MBP 2012 (16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD) and iPhone 5s

Some features are just not working for me:
* AirDrop from iPhone to Mac. I can AirDrop from Mac to iPhone, but my iPhone can't see the Mac.
* Placing a cellular call from the Mac, I can't hearing the ringing. But it works just fine otherwise.
* it took iCloud Drive awhile (1+ hour) to show up properly on the Mac
* still doesn't show my network transfer speed. Occasionally, I'm moving 5+ GB files between my computer and NAS, I would like to know if there's a bottleneck somewhere.

Too smart for its own good:
* short-hand/text expansion you set up on your iPhone will automatically transfer over to Mac OS X

Re:Still some funky bugs, but not bad.

[garote]

* still doesn't show my network transfer speed. Occasionally, I'm moving 5+ GB files between my computer and NAS, I would like to know if there's a bottleneck somewhere.

MenuMeters is free, quick to install and configure, and is absolutely essential for anyone who likes to keep an eye on vital stats without leaving a window hanging around.

I've installed it immediately on every system I've used over the last 8 years, and now it feels like I'm "working blind" when I use a system that doesn't have it!!

Have they fixed the following "bugs" yet?

[r_jensen11]

I'm still on 10.6 or 10.7, but have they fixed the following bugs yet?

1. UID 1000 is invisible/hidden at boot-up log-in selection. UID 500 and 1001 are visible, but for whatever idiotic decision, UID1000 requires typing in the username instead of clicking on it. Definitely hampers the WAF in my household.
2. reintegrate MIT-Kerberos. Setting this up was an unnecessary PIA

Piece of shit

[Anonymous Coward]

The download has been stuck on "waiting" for hours. I should format this fucking laptop and put windows 8 on it.

Wait, wait...

[frank_adrian314159]

When did they run out of cats? Or dd they mummify them and bury them all with Steve Jobs?

The Flat Look is UGLY!

[DougReed]

Can someone ... ANYONE! Explain to me why in the era when we have 4k (and with iMAC 5K) displays with almost unmeasurable performance, we have to make our GUIs all flat and ugly like some kind of Windows 3.0 desktop? iPad came out, and Microsoft misread the tea leaves and instead of realizing that the PC market was a replacement market, and the table market was a new expanding market, decided the world wanted everything to be tablets, ... So as Microsoft's market share starts to drop, everyone starts to copy them with dumbed down GUIs and THEIR market share drops too (Hello Gnome and Ubuntu). Then Microsoft who still can't read tea leaves, dumbs down their flying window to make it a flat ugly square and takes away all 3D effects... So now even Apple is copying this silly trend.

I like pretty windows with 3D icons. I don't like this new "flat" look at all. It's boring and ugly. What's next gray scale? Maybe ACSII graphics!

Re:The Flat Look is UGLY!

[mozumder]

Adults should never ask for "pretty windows with 3D icons".

i couldn't stomach the whole thing..

[Anonymous Coward]

but it looks to be a 25 page commentary on how fucking ugly the new osx is.