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Microsoft Introduces Build Cadence Selection With Windows 10

jones_supa writes: Microsoft has just released Windows 10 TP build 9860. Along with the new release, Microsoft is introducing an interesting cadence option for how quickly you will receive new builds. The "ring progression" goes from development, to testing, to release. By being in the slow cadence, you will get more stable builds, but they will arrive less often. By choosing the fast option, it allows you to receive the build on the same day that it is released. As a quick stats update, to date Microsoft has received over 250,000 pieces of feedback through the Windows Feedback tool, 25,381 community forum posts, and 641 suggestions in the Windows Suggestion Box.

62 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. It's great to see so much community feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hopefully all this community feedback translates into functional changes in the operating system. They made a huge mistake with Windows 8 by relying on the standard Windows 7 feedback mechanism (that seemingly most people turned off) so this looks like a much better solution with much broader participation.

    1. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      It's great to see so much community feedback

      It's almost like they were inspired by somebody.

      Is there any other OS that uses a "cadence" release plan? Called unstable, testing and stable, maybe?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OS/2?

    3. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's actually working, as they seem to actually be working on things that people are asking for. Testing on a very broad scale makes a lot of sense for a Windows release, since they obviously don't have that "Apple magic" which seems to be able to intuit what people want before they ask for it. You might as well instead let people give real feedback on small, incremental changes (and apparently they've been talking to their business customers very early in the process). It's a lot less sexy, but it's fundamentally pretty sound.

      Of course, they're still stubbornly refusing to bring back Aero, which a lot of people really want. I don't particularly need a specific theme back, but I still think the flat & square look is a ridiculous designer-forced fad, and hopefully we'll see the end of it soon. I'm not going to update my Mac mini to Yosemite until I have to because Apple is drinking the same damn Kool-Aid at the moment.

      I think backtracking on that particular theme is a bit dicey for them, though, because many of their internal applications bought into that ridiculous theme as well, so I think it would be problematic for too many egos to toss the "modern" theme too quickly. Microsoft Visual Studio is a good example where they jumped into that sort of theming whole hog, pissed off all their users, and are slowing backtracking away from their original designs and more towards VS2010, which most people seemed to really like.

      Make no mistake, Microsoft is the same old same old. The only reason they're listening to their users is because their users flipped them the bird, financially speaking, after seeing Windows 8, and they can't afford to piss people off too much or they'll really start looking seriously for alternatives. One good thing about corporations is that they're entirely predictable when faced with the threat of declining revenues: they suddenly become very customer-centric.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Hopefully all this community feedback translates into functional changes in the operating system. They made a huge mistake with Windows 8 by relying on the standard Windows 7 feedback mechanism (that seemingly most people turned off) so this looks like a much better solution with much broader participation.

      Because Microsoft has a great track record of paying atterntion to feedback.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's almost like they were inspired by somebody.

      Good! Good ideas should be copied!

      Is there any other OS that uses a "cadence" release plan? Called unstable, testing and stable, maybe?

      I don't know, would that matter in any way?

      I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.

    6. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because Microsoft has a great track record of paying atterntion to feedback.

      They don't have a record of doing widespread public tech previews with extensive feedback programs either, but they're doing it now. While we're on the subject what's that operating system that does public tech previews, asks for feedback and *doesn't* listen to the torrent of complaints? Oh yeah, Debian!

    7. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What exactly did Debian contribute? What part of this is their invention exactly?

    8. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by davester666 · · Score: 1

      So, where are the 'testing' and 'stable' versions?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    9. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Because Microsoft has a great track record of paying atterntion to feedback.

      Microsoft is running scared. It doesn't look like it because they're so big, but they're seeing their business nibbled away so they're moving as fast as their massive bulk will allow. At this point, they're probably desperate enough to attempt serious measures like listening to their customers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are apparently too young to remember the Windows 95 release process. Microsoft does have the capability of doing widespread public tech previews, they just didn't think it important for many years.

    11. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      No idea, I was aiming for a +3 Funny.

    12. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by David_W · · Score: 1

      Is there any other OS that uses a "cadence" release plan? Called unstable, testing and stable, maybe?

      No, FreeBSD calls them -CURRENT, -STABLE, and -RELEASE, but you were close.

    13. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      As a user, I hate hate hate "release early, release often." It's a major pain in the ass.

    14. Re:It's great to see so much community feedback by jbolden · · Score: 1

      How long have they been screaming for NFC

      Mostly never. Apple customers were happy with Apple's position that Bluetooth did well what NFC did poorly. Android people were very upset that Apple people didn't have NFC.

  2. Does it rape your privacy by koan · · Score: 1

    As well as Yosemite does?

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Does it rape your privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well this is a preview release (not a Beta, RC or final release) and is intended solely for providing feedback to Microsoft (not for software or hardware testing as the underlying APIs are subject to change) and it is made very clear on the signup page in multiple places that this release does indeed report back to Microsoft.

      Yosemite is a final release and while it reports data back to Apple much of this can be turned off. I'm not sure if it has been confirmed exactly what (if anything) is reported back if you have the privacy controls on and all the reporting controls switched off.

    2. Re:Does it rape your privacy by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's not rape when you are giving full consent.

    3. Re:Does it rape your privacy by martas · · Score: 1

      Huh, who knew solving rape would be as easy as teaching women to say no when asked "may I rape you". I guess the "no means no" campaign completely missed the mark somewhere...

    4. Re:Does it rape your privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Opt-out instead of opt-in is still attempted rape.

      It is opt-in, you can't even get into the program and download the software without going through the pages that explicitly telling you what the program is and what they collect. This is not buried in a EULA or a document written in legalese, it is in plain English written very clearly so if you have gone through that and still applied for the program and still downloaded and run the software then you have indisputably opted in, it could not be any more clear.

  3. Community involvement is nice by DemonOnIce · · Score: 2

    This is a good approach from Microsoft, they finally listened to its users.

    1. Re:Community involvement is nice by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      They didn't listen to Vista either.

    2. Re:Community involvement is nice by tehlinux · · Score: 2

      Windows 8 was my idea. Sorry guys, dropped the ball on that one.

      --
      Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    3. Re:Community involvement is nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But you are not forced to send big bucks to Linux foundation either. If the Microsoft does not give monetary incentive for doing their testing, I don't see how this system could work with Windows. How would the paying users be otherwise tempted to use their time for free doing the QA for Microsoft?

  4. Re:Does this work? by DaveM753 · · Score: 2, Funny

    No. Windows is a dog.

  5. "interesting" ?? how about "shamelessly borrowed"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    from debian stable/testing/sid, or firefox esr/standard/beta/nightly or any one of the other software products with similar release schemes?

  6. Aero yet by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am waiting for it's return and more sane not all blinding white and borderless pastel colors. Tabs in explorer not implemented yet either.

    1. Re:Aero yet by Teresita · · Score: 1

      Hell even Caja in Mate has tabs, and it's just a workaround.

    2. Re:Aero yet by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tabs suck - switching between explorers using the task bar (when set up properly to not combine windows on the taskbar) is good.

      What explorer has lacked since Windows 3.1 is two panes in explorer, to simplify moving/sorting stuff between directories. Yeah, you can snap an explorer to each side of the desktop these days but that only works properly if you have just 1 monitor. If I could easily tile explorers on one monitor in a multi-mon setup, that would be far less annoying.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Aero yet by TFlan91 · · Score: 1

      but that only works properly if you have just 1 monitor. If I could easily tile explorers on one monitor in a multi-mon setup, that would be far less annoying.

      Lies.

      Windows Key + Arrow Left/Right will snap the focused window to the next "pane".

      Windows Key + Arrow Up/Down will Minimize/Maximize.

    4. Re:Aero yet by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Tabs suck - switching between explorers using the task bar (when set up properly to not combine windows on the taskbar) is good.

      What explorer has lacked since Windows 3.1 is two panes in explorer, to simplify moving/sorting stuff between directories. Yeah, you can snap an explorer to each side of the desktop these days but that only works properly if you have just 1 monitor. If I could easily tile explorers on one monitor in a multi-mon setup, that would be far less annoying.

      Winkey+left, Winkey+Right to snap to edges of the current monitor in a multimonitor setup. Press it again and the window will jump over to the next monitor.

    5. Re:Aero yet by lgw · · Score: 1

      Ah, this sort of Linux-inspired "you'll never figure it out, a friend has to tell you" stuff annoys me. Well, thanks for telling me!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Aero yet by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      Keyboard shortcuts are hidden by design. I don't know how you expect to intuit Ctrl+V is Paste or F3 is Search.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    7. Re:Aero yet by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I will correct what you said by saying 'It only works properly if you dont EXTEND the desktop to another monitor'. It will snap mirrored monitors just fine.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:Aero yet by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Because it's been displayed prominently in every Windows "Edit" menu for the past twenty years or so?

      In fairness to Microsoft, I'm not sure how one would convey those particular shortcuts to users visually. Maybe they should be shown as part of the right click context menus from the title bar?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    9. Re:Aero yet by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Windows Explorer lacks a proper "orthodox file manager" view. I miss the File Manager that came with Norton Navigator and NT Tools (it doesn't work with Vista/7). I haven't had a chance to try the Windows port of DirectoryOpus yet. It certainly makes life easier on an Amiga though!

    10. Re:Aero yet by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tip. And Winkey+Up = Maximize (+Down can be deduced, expect the app loses focus at that point).

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    11. Re:Aero yet by karnal · · Score: 2

      What's even MORE AWESOME is that control-f in Outlook "forwards" emails; yet you use Control-E (what??) to "find". That frustrates me to no end every day.

      --
      Karnal
    12. Re:Aero yet by Xipher · · Score: 1

      Use "Win+arrow keys" to snap in multi-monitor situations.

      --
      I don't know everything.
    13. Re:Aero yet by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      I won't pretend to make any excuses.

      Another hidden gem on Windows 8/8.1 is the "Winkey+X" shortcut. It opens a menu with all sorts of power user goodies.

  7. Microsoft introducing an interesting cadence? by lippydude · · Score: 1

    Is this anything like Ubuntu Long Term Support as compared to the standard release schedule?

    1. Re:Microsoft introducing an interesting cadence? by lippydude · · Score: 1

      anonymous: "Nope. This is only for the Technical Preview and offers much greater granularity than the Debian or Ubuntu schemes."

      Jeez, yet more marketing waffle :)

  8. So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it all by angryargus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The amount of feedback isn't surprising, but I would be surprised if anyone in the Redmond bubble ever made any changes (even slight) in response to any of that feedback. By the time they have a public release they're too far along in their big-company release process to accomodate changes.

  9. oh boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sticking with windows for software compatibility, full blown and rich feature drivers(video, audio, tv adapter, printer), productive suits(adobe creative suit and autodesk), VS 2013, office 2013, gaming, media center for tv adapter, easy installing software no dependency issues.

    I'm not a big fan of the flat color look but I do like the Metro experience. I just hope MS gets rid of the app title bar and context menu for the Metro since the old desktop is coming back and there is no more need trying to turn the Metro into the old desktop way. I never liked the MS start menu or the Aero which strains my eyes. Kde with all the effects barely strains my eyes.

    I would drop Windows in a minute If all the things I need were available on Linux or even BSD(freebsd, pc-bsd). I have always liked the themes, desktop customizations, the many DE's for linux. MS have always done things half-ass, windows 7 no second taskbar for dual monitor.

    1. Re:oh boy by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      VS and app availability are the winners for me. Sure they are FOSS alternatives to almost everything. But how much time do I need to spend to find them versus going for the known (and easily pirated or paid for by the employer so who cares) brand name product? How many snarky "well if you don't like it get the source and make it do what you want" comments do you need to take before you use the product that was designed by people that gave half a damn and have a financial incentive to make it better? VS for example: I haven't seen an IDE even with its worts (large memory footprint, once daily crash) that can touch it. The best they come are, mah good enough I guess, half assed look and feel, half assed layout of the toolbox etc. The fact that probably the most well known free alternative is Eclipse and it is even more of a dog (probably due to Java: I welcome your complaints: coffee is meant to be next to the computer not in it you file having singleclass not having Linq dolts ;)) memory/performance wise.

    2. Re:oh boy by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      From your list there, I have more issues with windows than I do Linux Mint for drivers, I have tv tuners, printers, SLI Nvidia cards all working fine, just plug and go (tv tuner is a huappage (sp?) 500 dual digital and a hauppage (sp?) analogue). For example I have a lexmark multi-function and it works fine with linux but causes the print spooler to crash in windows. As for media center I can't get past XBMC as the best one I have used and it's OS agnostic. (I will say if you have an optimus chipset or a random USB 3g dongle you can run in to issues)

      What software are you installing were you get dependency errors? Either I install from the package manager, or all the dependencies come bundled.

      I don't use creative suit or autodesk so that could be a show stopper there.

      Gaming is the one place where I do stumble, but I have a new setup now where I have a windows machine in a rack that has wake-on-lan and boots to steam. I then stream the games across my network (house is all wired) and there are enough linux games now if I am out and about on my laptop.

      I realise some of these are a work around but there are things that bug me about windows, such as why does it not let me easily have more than one instance of calculator or picture viewer open? The multi-desktops is another, multi-panes in windows explorer, seamless NFS, bash scripts!, a nice ssh client, Meld.

      Of course you use what you want to use. I just like Mint.

    3. Re:oh boy by Roadstar · · Score: 2

      MS have always done things half-ass, windows 7 no second taskbar for dual monitor.

      This is actually fixed in Windows 8. I was a bit surprised to see that Windows 8 (and 8.1) in the desktop mode are better than Windows 7 when it comes to multiple displays.

  10. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    That was under Sinofsky. He was fired.

    He wanted to take advantage of old middle aged users afraid of change to get used to it so they will all stick with Windows Phone after being broken in.

    MS is on the right step. The feedback tool and not re leasing isos and instead forcing updates to as many users as possible shows they are listening.

    Returning the start menu and un-fullscreening applets shows it is paying attention. Tablet and hybrid users get a metroized big left start menu and screen which you can turn off.

  11. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    Well at least in theory they are in a faster release cadence/no more big release mode: so "too far along" is now 6 months rather than 6 years: a big improvement.

  12. Virtual monitor splitting by swb · · Score: 1

    I'd like to see native virtual monitor display splitting. Large, high-resolution displays often beg to be subdivided into smaller displays but treated as if there were separate monitors. I feel like a lot of screen space is wasted with wide displays, especially with applications and web sites that don't take advantage of it well.

    I've tried several utilities that do this, but none were all that usable or useful. Display Fusion will do it well, but only even divisions. Uneven splits are coming but it's been several months since they said they would add it. And I'm not sure it will allow for things like 3 way splits (ie, one portrait with two landscape next to it).

    I'd also like to see the opposite, display combining, treating a subset of monitors as a single monitor. Even though the bezel is an irritant, there are times where it would be nice to treat more than one monitor as a single display but not be forced to accept it across all displays.

    Being able to scale virtual displays would be nice, too, the way you can with RDP. It'd be nice to take a keep-track logging or status window that really needs a big window to be used but could be scaled into a smaller window to be just kept an eye on, even if it wasn't totally usable.

    1. Re:Virtual monitor splitting by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Large, high-resolution displays often beg to be subdivided into smaller displays but treated as if there were separate monitors.

      That's only useful if you have a bunch of applications which force full screen. The solution there is to unfuck those apps, not to goof around with weird screen-splitting ideas. An idea which might be useful and perform the same function, though, would be to give new ways to resize windows. For example, when I resize a window, maybe I could merge its border with a neighboring window by dragging and hovering. Then they'd have a shared border (reflected by drawing them appropriately) and moving the shared border would resize both windows, dragging one window would move the other, etc.

      I'd also like to see the opposite, display combining, treating a subset of monitors as a single monitor. Even though the bezel is an irritant, there are times where it would be nice to treat more than one monitor as a single display but not be forced to accept it across all displays.

      Realistically, that's going to have to come in the video driver, and some of them already do this. It would be nice to have OS-level support for controlling it, however.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Virtual monitor splitting by swb · · Score: 1

      The solution there is to unfuck those apps, not to goof around with weird screen-splitting ideas.

      Yeah, but it's a reasonable one-size-fits-all solution to do screen splitting versus trying to unfuck a lot of applications which will never be unfucked.

      Windowing is great, but somewhere down the road window management got lost. Manually sizing and positioning windows is tedious and the Windows UI provides very little in terms of tools for managing windows. Snapping is of limited value and not configurable AFAIK.

      Making regions of a single display act like separate monitors may be a kludge, but it's a kludge that goes a long way towards making window positioning and sizing more manageable.

  13. Re:Very flattering... by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    Anon-coward so not likely to get a response directly but its been a while: does the version of Debian/Ubuntu you install determine what happens when you update? Ie you do an apt-get update do you only get "long term support" updates if that was what you initially installed or does it by default get the newest version of whatever you have installed? If so I guess it is equivalent. I assume internally this has been going on in MS for a while/probably for ever. Devs on the OS team probably have builds running on at least one of their boxes/VMs that are 1 week old: they have to to do their job. It is just a matter of how early on the gravy train customers are allowed in that has changed.

  14. Re:Very flattering... by armanox · · Score: 1

    It's very much in the users hands. Generally, a release (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL) sticks to the version for the OS. In Ubuntu and Debian, if you have backports enabled, it will grab newer versions of the software if it has been vetted stable by the OS team. Or you can add a developer PPA and grab the newest releases as they come. In Fedora you have the option to either add a seperate repo to yum (I've got a couple of repos on Fedora to get upstream stable rather then just the OS version) OR you can allow rawhide for certain packages/groups if you want to stay bleeding edge

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  15. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not surprising about this post, or that it's modded insightful. After all, if anyone bother to read TFA, they'd see that Microsoft is already implementing user-requested changes. But hey, don't let facts ruin a good MS bashing.

    Animation for switching desktops. One of the pieces of feedback that you gave us was that it was hard to know when you were switching desktops. We addressed your feedback by adding an animation to make it clear that you are switching. Check it out by creating some new desktops and moving between them.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  16. Feedback by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    As a quick stats update, to date Microsoft has received over 250,000 pieces of feedback through the Windows Feedback tool, 25,381 community forum posts, and 641 suggestions in the Windows Suggestion Box.

    And like and good corp they will ignore every single one and do whatever the fuck they want anyway.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  17. Rolling by present_arms · · Score: 1

    I use a rolling Distro (PCLinuxOS) that doesn't use the bleeding edge, all the apps are put in to "testing" and me and others test the crap out of it before it's put in to the repository proper for the ordinary folks (for want of a better phrase). this way there are a lot less issues to fix, but we still have limited testers, not the Millions Microsoft have and still have a very stable and nice working environment regardless of the DM used, KDE, Mate etc. For some reason Microsoft still haven't fixed the USB feature from 1996 ffs. (The feature is it keeps loading fucking drivers for a USB pen every time you plug the thing in to another USB port, fucking annoying, that goes for my usb DVB-T tvcard and USB Hard drives too, I mean wtf.) Glad they seem to be listening to other complaints though.

    --
    http://chimpbox.us
  18. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    But animation is bad! I always make sure my computer has 16+GB of RAM and top of the line processor and video cards, but am very angry if any of it gets used.

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. There's only one cadence I care about by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    And that is "upgrade only when I tell you to."

  21. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

    Really -- THAT's how you interpret that sentence?

    Me, I figure the process is this;
    1) Top Exec gets "vision"
    2) Worker drones in various departments feverishly compete for solution.
    3) Solution is not compatible with other departments.
    4) Hapless new guy gets Vision Solution and the rest implement a generic version that is compatible.
    5) Least common denominator patch solution gets implemented.
    6) Marketing figures out a way to describe the moderate and stable change as "Visionary".
    7) Someone digs up a customer email in their data warehouse of suggesting for a match.
    8) Marketing department posts email request from user and let's people know; "Microsoft is Listening"
    9) 3 billion suggestions and 4 billion "You suck" comments get compressed and moved back to the data warehouse waiting for the next visionary release, right next to the Arc of the Covenant.

    --
    >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
  22. Re:So much feedback and yet Microsoft ignores it a by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    As long as the issue gets fixed, I don't care if the master plan for Windows 10 was handed down to them by the Freemasons in a bid to tip the balance of power in the ongoing secret war against the Illuminati, both of whom the Catholic Church are quite cleverly pitting against each other in order to weaken and ultimately topple it's centuries old rivals in an epic bid for world domination.

    Or maybe Microsoft just got a lot of feedback and decided to fix the problem.

    Either one is totally plausible.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.