Slashdot Mirror


Ebola Does Not Require an "Ebola Czar," Nor Calling Up the National Guard

Lasrick writes: David Ropeik explores risk-perception psychology and Ebola in the U.S. "[O]fficials are up against the inherently emotional and instinctive nature of risk-perception psychology. Pioneering research on this subject by Paul Slovic, Baruch Fischhoff, and others, vast research on human cognition by Daniel Kahneman and colleagues, and research on the brain's fear response by neuroscientists Joseph LeDoux, Elizabeth Phelps, and others, all make abundantly clear that the perception of risk is not simply a matter of the facts, but more a matter of how those facts feel. ... People worry more about risks that are new and unfamiliar. People worry more about risks that cause greater pain and suffering. People worry more about threats against which we feel powerless, like a disease for which there is no vaccine and which has a high fatality rate if you get it. And people worry more about threats the more available they are to their consciousness—that is, the more aware people are of them."

66 of 384 comments (clear)

  1. Politics by pubwvj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create. We already have the CDC. If this were about solving disease problems then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it. This is not about solving problems but about power.

    1. Re:Politics by Sowelu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Er, that's basically what they've been saying this whole time. Lots of reactionaries in the media are screaming that those very statements are lies and cover-ups.

    2. Re:Politics by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create.

      Czar's are usually there to be completely ineffective and take the fall when side A politically leverages hindsight and/or the situation that they themselves have helped create against side B.

      Don't be a Czar, it won't end well for you.

    3. Re:Politics by sl3xd · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they had just stated the truth, that Ebola is hard to spread with proper controls, and can be contained...

      For the public, notions of safety went out the window after the clusterfsck in Texas.

      - A patient went to the ER with symptoms, and was sent home
      - People in government-mandated quarantine didn't honor the quarantine, and went to public places. It took armed guards to enforce the quarantine.
      - Two nurses, wearing the recommended protective equipment became infected, and are being treated now.
      - One of the nurses went on an airline flight after treating the Ebola patient, in violation of a number of CDC policies
      - Personnel treating the first ebola patient were in constant contact with hundreds of others, including other hospital patients

      Restated facts (or "truth") about how difficult it is to transmit can no longer combat the fear that has brewed up.

      A pattern of mistake after mistake has emerged - things that should have never happened did. People who knew better didn't do the right thing, over and over.

      It's a PR disaster, pure and simple. Any goodwill or trust the public had was burned up in Texas.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    4. Re:Politics by towermac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And look who's reacting to the reactionaries.

    5. Re:Politics by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      As soon as any government appoints a Czar, you know that they know bad things are going to happen.

      Usually:
      * The person has little actual power
      * They are allocated minimal resources
      * Decisions come from the people above
      * Blame falls upon the Czar's shoulders
      * Appointing a Czar makes it look like you're doing something, even though you don't actually have to know what you're doing
      * Almost inevitably the Czar resigns or is fired later for being ineffective - because they were never actually there to do anything or even empowered to do anything

      When you see a Czar being appointed you should immediately think, "they know the outcome here has a high probability of being very damaging politically, likely because they either don't have the answers and they know it, or the answers they have point to a very unpopular outcome".

      That's not being cynical, it's just reality.

    6. Re:Politics by peragrin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is the CDC plan didn't work and the CDC and the hospital completely broke proper isolation procedures.

      You never give the care takers permission to leave the town until after they have been isolated long enough to be clean. Let alone when one of them ask for permission to fly when she has a slight fever you say no.

      I always figured the CDC could handle a major outbreak. now I don't think they could.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:Politics by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is not about solving problems but about power.

      You just summed up the Democratic party.

      He also just summed up the Republican Party.

    8. Re:Politics by tsotha · · Score: 4, Informative

      First of all, we already have a "Czar" for this sort of thing. Her name is Dr. Nicole Lurie. That's the real reason we don't need a "Czar" - we already have one.

      Secondly, the president can't give the CDC more funding. That's Congress's job.

      Thirdly, in the last fifteen years the CDC budget has doubled, so they already have plenty of money. In fact, they have too much money, which has allowed them to ignore their primary mission and go off and do things like stump for gun control, study why lesbians get fat and gay men don't, and determine most monkeys are right handed.

    9. Re:Politics by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC. If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach. Instead they're complaining they didn't do enough. Regardless of what it does there's a certain sector of the American public that will always find a way to fault the government.

    10. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This being an airborne strain is absolute bullshit. There is NO evidence whatsoever to point to it being an airborne pathogen, and there is only a single strain of ebola in the past that has gone airborne and it doesn;t even effect humans. Furthermore that airborne strain of ebola is not the strain of ebola that our current ourbreak has evolved from. This current outbreak is from an older 1980's strain also from africa. Believe me, if this were airborne you would know. People are looking to african nations that are battling the ebola virus right now and they think "Oh shit thousands upon thousands infected in only a few months, HAS TO BE AIRBORNE". That might be true if that was happening here in America where extremely tight quarantine measures are (SUPPOSED) to be observed properly but Africa is a completely different ballgame. Quarantine measures were NOT observed by the majority of the africans infected (only quarantine measures taken were pitiful and only existed in certain places where the people where afraid to go) and to make it even worse education in african nations about the ebola virus was met with suspicion and doubt. The current infection rate in africa, while it may match that of an airborne pathogen, is only due to these horrible conditions. When the majority of people in africa start observing proper safety protocol, when education of the people has actually worked and people arent touching their dead and shit anymore, and when proper medical equipment and staff can get there you will see the infection rate come down to levels appropriate of a virus that spreads only through bodily fluids.

      tl;dr This isnt an airborne strain, there is absolutely no evidence of that. The currently high infection rate in Africa is from many other reasons all working together to cause a horrible situation thats almost unmanageable for the people currently in charge.

      If this whole outbreak had been in america instead of africa the dead would be less than a thousand easily.

    11. Re:Politics by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC.

      That's just endless buck-passing. The reality is that the kind of fuck ups that could happen, did happen, like a storyline from some cheap zombie/biothriller novel.

      The CDC protocols were flawed and the CDC wasn't there to advise and observe and if they did they screwed that up. Worse, I think the CDC invited complacency with its don't-panic focus. The whole mess in Texas might have been avoided if they had taken a slightly more danger-focused mindset,

    12. Re: Politics by budgenator · · Score: 3, Funny

      American Hospitals are almost always Non-profits.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    13. Re:Politics by NicBenjamin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That why, even as an 'infectious disease response coordinator,' it's a lawyer and politician who got the call.
      If they had just stated the truth, that Ebola is hard to spread with proper controls, and can be contained, there would be no panic, there would be little media attention, and there would be no need for a czar. But as you said, there would be no need to concentrate power, so no dice.

      Dude,

      I see what you're saying, but you're missing something: Nina Pham is pretty. She's 26. She's got a college degree. She reminds everyone who makes decisions in the media of their daughter/girlfriend/best friend/etc. And she's got a very high risk of death because she caught a deadly disease on her job. Then her boss tried to blame her for it by saying she fucked up the protocol.

      The media could be convinced to ignore thousands of poor Liberians dying. It could be convinced to treat the missionaries and Doctors airlifted back to the US. That shit is supposed to happen in Africa. But Nina Pham has a really interesting story, great visuals, and a compelling main character.

      Appointing a political hack as "Ebola Czar" to shut the GOP up is the real world version of telling everyone to calm the fuck down and go the fuck home.

    14. Re:Politics by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      To pretend that the governing behaviors have a substantial correlation with the alleged governing philosophies is...empirically tenuous at best.

    15. Re:Politics by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      The President can't unilaterally increase CDC funding. He has extremely broad discretion in moving funds around (the check on his power to cut one program's budget and use it for his pet priorities is not that he can't do that shit; it's that Congress would freak out and zero out said pet priorities budget next year), but he can't just add a bunch of money to the CDC.

      The Republican House almost certainly claims that if they'd gotten Romney the CDC would have been adequately funded, but the tend to define "adequate funding" vaguely because every voter will assume their Congressman shares their interpretation of "adequate." But that claim isn't really relevant.

      What's relevant is that Obama won; he and the House GOP agreed on the budget after much extreme BS; but now a) everyone wishes they'd added a little juice to the CDC's Ebola numbers and b) nobody actually believes there's a chance in hell that the two parties will agree on a new (higher) CDC budget anytime in the foreseeable future.

    16. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL. No. Written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, and voted for by Democrats. The Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    17. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL. No. Written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, and voted for by Democrats. The Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.

      I'll just leave this right here for you.

    18. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

      News flash: Romney was never elected President. (I do understand the logic, you can't 'blame" this on Bush, can you?)

      I'll just leave this right here for you.

      I can understand trying to weasel out from being blamed for that turkey, but it isn't going to happen. You can try to make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day Obamacare was written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, amended with juicy pork to bribe Democrats to not bail on it, passed by Democratic votes, and signed by a Democratic president. Ownership: Democrats - lock, stock, and barrel. Blame: Democrats - start to finish.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    19. Re:Politics by cjanota · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      You can fix anything with duct tape and sticks.
    20. Re:Politics by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Quite simple, what happens reflects the nature of a privatised for profit system. They do lip service to government regulations but if it is more profitable to ignore the rules then the cost of the penalties, regardless of the outcome, then private for profit entities will ignore the rules. When it comes to high risk medical services putting it in the hands of private for profit capitalists based upon the reality of the last century of private for profit entities, is just plain nuts, especially where those private for profit entities would actually generate more profits by failure than by success ie the spread of an infectious disease for them to treat.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    21. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, fucking Nigeria was able to contain an outbreak with... let's just say less resources than US hospitals and CDC. The real problem is that our "best health system" is actually an otherwise shitty health system with many very good doctors and nurses in it.

    22. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 2

      Blame: I'll take it. The vast majority of the bill is intended to reduce fraud in medicare (and has done so). The parts that you think of as Obamacare are working out very well too.

      But, I do admit that the intellectual conception of Obamacare came from the right wing think tanks. And that makes sense, it's ultimately very libertarian / free market oriented. They just couldn't get it implemented.

    23. Re:Politics by cyn1c77 · · Score: 2

      If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach.

      Really?

      If the CDC had clamped down on that hospital, the only people complaining would have been the hospital staff.

      Instead, the CDC has lost most of the public's trust.

      Ebola is a deadly virus. With deadly things, you are expected to be proactive, not reactive. Once you react, people are already dead.

    24. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Africa is not a country. Its a continent you can fit the USA, China, India and the entire EU into with room to spare. Generalization like yours is just as inaccurate. I live in an African country and our infection rates are actually lower than the US (3 there 1 here and he was a traveler who got it in Liberia who died in quarantine here). Hell our quarantine protocols are probably stricter than yours because we don't have many libertarians so nobody thinks personal liberties extends to risking public safety.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    25. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 2

      The U.S. system of medical education produces hypercompetitive egomaniacs, not good doctors.

    26. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 2

      The common cold isn't really airborne either, it's spread mainly by fomite transmission, direct contact and droplet transmission. I think the problem is that people confuse droplet transmission and airborne transmission.Ebola can be spread by droplet transmission but does not survive long enough outside the body to be spread by fomites or true airborne transmission.And the average ebola patient feels rather too sick to walk around spreading germs like a person with a cold might.

    27. Re: Politics by sjames · · Score: 2

      No, they must have revenue to cover costs. That should include creating a cash reserve for bad years and unexpected expenses. They don't need profit.

    28. Re:Politics by DamnOregonian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Rhinovirus is actually "airborne", in that a pathologically significant amount of virus can in fact exist in aerosolized droplets, unlike ebola, which is almost 10x larger, on average, and much worse at replicating.

    29. Re:Politics by ray-auch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nigeria overall has less resources than US, sure, but compare the what they actually did and the resources they actually _used_.

      First, in Nigeria patient zero hit a good observant doctor with a clue, and instead of being sent home with antibiotics, was kept in hospital and restrained to prevent him leaving - all (I believe) before any official quarantine order or similar. The doctor that did that paid with her life. That action probably prevented an epidemic across Lagos, nothing to do with amount of resources and everything to do with one doctor being on the ball and prepared to fight the system to do the right thing.

      The official response included tracing close to 1000 primary and secondary contacts, 18,500 personal visits and 100s in isolation / quarantine. They had emergency presidential decrees, overriding the rights people would normally have (probably a lot less than in the US to start with) and extensive use of law enforcement agencies. Widespread advertising campaigns, banning shaking hands, kissing etc., Changing holy communion practices in churches. Closure of _all_ schools.

      The US doesn't appear to have done anything like that, despite its greater resources. Maybe Nigeria over-reacted, maybe US under-reacted and got lucky.

    30. Re:Politics by swb · · Score: 2

      I think blaming for-profit healthcare is certainly possible, but in this case I think it's too overbroad of a critique.

      It's reasonable to believe that the profit motive may actually have been a positive motivation -- the hospital makes money from ordinary health care issues, not life-threatening hemorrhagic fevers imported from Africa. Even a mini "outbreak" like this will have everyone who can avoid this hospital going someplace else, and the people with any choice in the matter have good insurance that pays well or are paying for elective procedures themselves. The customers they have left will be people without choice who pay less or not at all.

    31. Re:Politics by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2

      Er, no. That's not what they have been saying. They have been saying things like sitting right next to a person with Ebola on a plane is very low risk

      But that is observed fact. Nobody on the plane with Patrick Sawyer was infected, even though Sawyer was already expressing symptoms and collapsed on arriving in Lagos.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    32. Re:Politics by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      What do you expect when you constantly tell people they shouldn't have to pay for medical care? Most people don't have a very high regard for "free stuff" or even "cheap stuff".

      The US Medical system puts patients and doctors in an adversarial relationship from the start.

      The doctor in the US operates as a gatekeeper for medical services. Another word for gatekeeper is guard, and they arm guards for a reason.

      I was chatting with a doctor who was talking about how owning a gun increases the risk of suicide, so he was thinking about asking patients about whether they owned one, but was concerned that patients might resent being asked. So, we had a bit of a chat about why patients lie to their doctors.

      I know somebody who needs a lot of chronic medical care. They've come to greatly resent doctors in general, though not 100% of the time. The doctor basically wants to be in the role of the final-decision-maker. The US legal system ensures that if the doctor doesn't take this role he gets thoroughly screwed because if he prescribes a treatment course which isn't by-the-book he gets sued. On the other hand, the patient might not agree with the course of treatment and might want a different one. However, in the US medications and often even tests are illegal to sell without a prescription, so the patient's options end up being to either do what the doctor wants, convince them to do something else, find another doctor they can convince, or forgo treatment altogether. The patient is automatically going to resent the doctor for having this choice foisted upon them, even though the doctor didn't personally create the US medical system (though the AMA certainly helps to perpetuate it). Due to the whole liability thing, often the best way to "convince" a doctor to go with a different treatment is to manipulate them by controlling their access to information or lying to them.

      The thing is, it is also in the patient's best interests to get frank advice from their doctor. The problem is that in the US we don't offer the patient of receiving frank advice and making an unrestricted treatment decision.

      Then money becomes a factor as well, since insurance companies want to pay for the treatment option that is statistically the most likely to cost them the least - ie the patient gets better as fast as possible at the lowest cost. So, they get a say in treatment as well. I think that the folks paying for treatment ought to have a say in the matter, but there has to be a way to do this without taking ALL control away from the patient. If nothing else they should be able to pay for their own pills maybe with a credit for whatever the standard of care would typically cost.

      IMO doctors shouldn't be gatekeepers except in limited circumstances. I'm fine with them being gatekeeper for antibiotics (even though it seems like many fail at that job today), since abuse of antibiotics is a public health problem. I'm fine with them having responsibility for reporting epidemics and such - anything that is a true public health problem and not merely a personal one. Otherwise, if somebody wants a test then as long as they understand the risks they ought to be able to pay for a test just like they can pay to get a tattoo. All medications should be available over-the-counter. By all means still have a system of prescriptions so that insurers can decide when to pay for medications, but if somebody wants to take something that is contra-indicated, that should be their right.

      Maybe there is an in-between solution. However, if you want people to stop resenting doctors then you need to make them feel like they're the ones actually in control of their treatment.

  2. Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look, every idiot out there wants to see a "response". Take anyone below the 90th percentile a they won't have the intellectual ability to process any probability less than 1 in 4. It's like the entire airline screening process - people feel safer if they see someone doing something. In reality it does little or no good, but until you figure out how to instantly make people smarter and less gullible you will get irrational panic and calls to "do something."

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, that's not leadership, it's damage control and/or preemptive excuses.

      Do you remember the last time Obama declared that we "don't have a plan" because the conditions in Syria were complex and required addition time to evaluate the various options? Yeah, that honesty in leadership went over well, despite the fact that he made it clear that evaluating what was an exceptionally complex set of conditions could go horribly wrong if played incorrectly.

      Ebola is just another disease without a (nearly guaranteed) cure. There are others out there, right now, which we know even less about (enterovirus, for example). This one is headline grabbing because you bleed out of your asshole. It's like "Ow, My Balls" but grosser for daytime shock newscasts. I mean, really - a facility takes on a patient with inadequate resources to do so, and fails. We're all somehow surprised.

      Instead of stating that hospitals are, generally, bad places to isolate transmitted diseases and recommending facilities and transport set up for such work, we go into shit storm finger pointing mode and massive over-reaction. That's not leadership. That's damage control.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      Look - if there's one thing that humans need, it's one ass to kick. Some dude to be the top of the pyramid. A face of the effort. A single point for organization. President, CEO, Principal - it doesn't matter the organization, you need a person in charge. And a person to take the fall if things go wrong. What you want is someone organizing and coordinating all of the response to the epidemic (of three). You can call him a Czar, a Director, or whatever - you still want *somebody* in charge. And somebody to fire (and/or crucify in public) if things go wrong.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    3. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Minupla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There must be an optimal level of security

      If we wanted to actually make people safer we'd take very dollar we spend on airport security and Ebola beyond contact tracking, containment and isolation/care for the infected and spend it on:

      1) Traffic safety
      2) Finding better ways to fight the flu

      Those two things would be way more impactful in terms of lives saved then the money being spent to keep air travel safe from terrorists and mobilizing the national guard to fight Ebola (not sure how they're going to do that, absent a shrink machine, Fantastic Voyage style).

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
  3. As some one recently pointed out to me by peragrin · · Score: 5, Funny

    More americans have married Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.

    And what is the land of the free creating more czar's for? a czar answers to no one. Instead how about we make the people in charge responsible for their actions. oh wait congress can never take responsibility for their failures.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  4. Most effective counter to fear by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

    The most effective counter to the epidemic of fear this article talks about is for the government to convince people that it is following an effective policy to address the dangers. Unfortunately, our politicians have gotten the idea that the best way to do that is to manage the "optics" of the situation. As a result, people are convinced that the government's responses to this danger are designed more to convince people that the government is doing the right thing that to actually DO the right thing.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  5. Oh come on... by ErikTheRed · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Obama Administration (and Bush / McCain / Romney would have been no better) looked around and were thinking ... hmmm... who could we appoint for this? An expert in epidemiology? Somebody with experience in coordinating the logistics of an emergency response? A useless public relations shill? Or an even more useless lawyer crony with connections to that epic success Solyndra?

    Yeah, that last one sounds about right. We'll go with that.

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
  6. "Fear" by Loopy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fear is relatively easy to manage if you actually have, you know, the peoples' trust. Imagine that. Why, if the public was actually used to the government telling the truth (including telling them when something was actually potentially detrimental to national security, rather than using that as an excuse to obscure _everything_) I'll bet you could just be honest with them and people would be rather rational about the whole thing. Lie through your teeth and then blame it on your predecessors or people you have appointed and you get the current situation.

    Then again, who among us today has any experience in an environment where people were actually being honest, even a majority of the time, and especially in any governmental context? The closest you'd get to that today would be certain military units and small teams at companies.

  7. Having a Surgeon General would help by chromaexcursion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fools are yelling for an Ebola Czar.
    Perhaps filling the position of Surgeon General would be simpler. Controlling the spread of disease is one of the functions of that office.
    But, approving the the candidate for the office would require the Senate to actually do something.

    1. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The NRA won't approve Obama's candidate for office because he wants to add black box warnings to guns "WARNING: The Surgeon General reports that guns can kill you".

    2. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by aralin · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only reason why he is "not qualified" is that NRA decided they will "Score" this vote. Congress critters are afraid to tarnish their 100% NRA approved record. *sigh*

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    3. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only qualifications the man whom Obama has nominated for the post has for the post is that he has unwaveringly supported Obama. In doing so, he has advocated for politicizing a position which has traditionally been as non-political as possible (there have been Surgeon-Generals in the past who took political stances on public health issues, but everyone agreed that they were public health issues, this guy appears to want to use "public health" to advance his political agenda). As a result, the Democrats in the Senate are unwilling to support his nomination (the Republicans positions are irrelevant since they cannot stop the Democrats from confirming him no matter what they do).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Tailhook · · Score: 4, Informative

      Reid has 55 (D) votes and it only needs 51 to confirm, so put the blame where it belongs.

      Why is there no surgeon general?

      Short answer: Obama's nominee is a political disaster; a highly partisan anti-gun obamacare cheerleader that the Dems know better than to expose to the confirmation process in an election year.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    5. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      The only reason why he is "not qualified" is that NRA decided they will "Score" this vote. Congress critters are afraid to tarnish their 100% NRA approved record. *sigh*

      Although it may be appealing in some respects to accept at face value your claim that the Democrats running the Senate are adverse to being held accountable, as they have previously demonstrated, it turns out there is more to it. The "nominee" isn't up to standard to be considered for the office.

      The Left, Hoping the Lack of a Surgeon General Becomes a Huge Issue

      Today on Ronan Farrow’s MSNBC program, the host invited former surgeon general Richard Carmona, who served under President Bush, on the program. The former surgeon general offered a bluntly harsh assessment that Murthy was “a young man who has great potential, but just a few years out of training, with no public health training or experience” and “a resume that only stands out because he was the co-founder of Doctors for Obama.” Carmona made similar comments on Fox News a few days ago.

      “So substantive objections as well as well as partisan ones,” Farrow said quickly, moving on from the interview.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  8. Utterly misses the point ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    You don't have to be a risk-perception psychologist to get what's going on.

    Nutty people said, "Do something!!!!"

    So we have a czar.

    FTFY

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  9. Re:What does require those things? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Funny

    While this is a Fox News topic, the comments are not as bad as what you would get there.

    For example not one reference to Obola yet.

  10. Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Zynder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would all of this talk about a Czar be an end run around the current problem of the Repubs blocking all nominations for a Surgeon General? Maybe that's the only way the administration feels they can have a real working department head?

    1. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Nope. Ttruth doesn't have anything to do with it. People hate you because you're a dumass[sic] and they are tired of hearing you speak.

    2. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The rules were changed so certain judicial nominations couldn't be filibustered but I don't think that applies to appointments like Surgeon General.

  11. American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by onkelonkel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We assumed we could easily handle Ebola if it came our way, because we are the most powerful and richest country on Earth. What we should have done is asked, "What are our weaknesses? Where is our medical system likely to fail?" Unfortunately we tend to suck at this kind of introspection. If we had asked, the most glaring weakness in our system, "Not everybody has medical coverage", might have been considered. Then when a sick black man recently arrived from West Africa came to the hospital without medical insurance we might have thought "EBOLA" and treated him right away, instead of thinking "poor Nigger, not gonna pay his bills" and sent him home with some Tylenol.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  12. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by radtea · · Score: 2

    While you are correct that the airborne vector isn't significant need I remind you that Ebola is not a disease whereby the person infected with it gets a mild fever and minor headache and the cure is two aspirin tablets?

    Sure, but that has zero bearing on the degree of concern people should have about the epidemic potential of Ebola in any country with a first-world health care system (Nigeria, say, or parts of the US outside Texas.)

    The thing fearmongers like the GP are all about is the attempt to create a sense that Ebola could actually be spreading like the flu, which is so trivially false it isn't even worth mentioning. Yes, PPEs that include good respiratory protection should be part of the standard patient-handling protocol, and all due care should be taken to avoid droplet transmission, but Ebola's almost complete lack of aerosol transmission is and will remain a substantial barrier to the population risk the disease poses: http://www.tjradcliffe.com/?p=...

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  13. CDC does disease control, NIH does research by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    The funny thing is it's the cut in NIH funding that means we don't have vaccines, not the cut in CDC funding, which only manages it after it spreads.

    CDC means Center for Disease Control

    NIH means National Institute for Health

    That and the cut for health care in Texas that increased the risk factors.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:CDC does disease control, NIH does research by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      all three are relevant research studies. gay marriage is legal in most of America, obesity is a known problem (it's Health), primates are our nearest analogs, and the latter choice might not be your cup of tea, but you'd be surprised what people do.

      More relevant than ebola?

      face it, you just love Russia and want America weak.

      This is why we can't have nice things. The NIH is like a student that blows their student loans on spring break in Cancun, and then complains that they don't have enough money to pay tuition.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  14. Re:unless you recently went to Africa by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    or you were a health care worker caring for Duncan. Or happened to live in the apartment complex where Duncan stayed. Or you happened to be on a flight from Texas to Ohio. Or on a flight from Ohio to Texas. Or one of those within 2 degrees of separation of any of these.

    Read what I said.

    Billions of people on this planet. Hundreds of millions in the US.

    More people die from heat stroke in Texas than are even remotely considered "at potential risk".

    It's like you worry about being attacked by Martians while crossing a busy highway.

    Pay attention to the cars and trucks in the highway.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  15. I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA by AaronW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA and KPC which kills far more people in this country and are far more deadly. These diseases are easily spread and there is no cure for them. While not trying to diminish the cause to fight Ebola, frankly there are a lot of things far deadlier in this country that people should be worried about.

    The cases in Texas I think can be squarely blamed on incompetence from the Dallas hospital.

    In the case of KPC, Congress has basically put their head in the sand and handtied the CDC and FDA from effectively studying and fighting it, thanks to the livestock lobbies Frontline has a good episode on this. It doesn't help that congress has cut the budget of the CDC significantly over the last decade and played politics to make it difficult to study and fight the causes.

    As it is, the CDC had to cut back on their research on Ebola due to the budget cuts and the delays in the worldwide community for fighting and funding the fighting of Ebola aren't helping matters either. If the Dallas hospital wasn't so incompetent, there's a good chance Thomas might have survived and nobody else would have become infected.

    --
    This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    1. Re:I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Part of the problem with the recent agency flubs is lack of focus on the part of the agency, something that is the responsibility of Congress.

      For example the Secret Service was once a part of the Treasury Department, and had a relatively narrow set of missions. However with the creation of the monumental cluster fuck known as the DHS, the Secret Service was uprooted and badly placed under the DHS, then saddled with all sorts of diversions.

      Similarly the CDC has been loaded up with all sorts of ridiculous crap like being made responsible for bicycle lane safety and policing of farmers markets. This is a world leading organization that must function at the highest level possible. Loading it up with cruft will destroy it.

      Recently I've seen a lot of yammering about some of the people that are seen on TV including Freidman and Fauci, to the effect that they are incompetent and should be shown the door.

      I'm sorry but this makes me want to throw up. Anthony Fauci is one of the greatest Americans of this age. His work on HIV/AIDS has saved millions of lives. He is one of the most cited scientists in the world. It is disgusting that he should be subjected to the hysterical politics of the moment.

  16. Re:Incomplete analysis by riverat1 · · Score: 2

    The US military personnel sent to Liberia are there to build some treatment centers and to expedite logistics for materials to fight the epidemic. They are not treating or even being exposed to the people who are contagious with Ebola. Your post is just more fear mongering.

  17. Re:Let's start by closing the front door by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was just arguing that this is pointless. When I traveled to Israel, I requested that my visa be stamped on a removable sheet of paper to be stapled into my passport. I did this because I didn't want evidence of a trip to Israel when one of my next stops was Malaysia. If someone is trying to get from Liberia to the US, they will do so with no evidence of recently having been in Liberia.

    It's not as if there are huge numbers of flights to and from Liberia.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  18. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by dgatwood · · Score: 2

    Ebola's almost complete lack of aerosol transmission is and will remain a substantial barrier to the population risk the disease poses

    The thing is, what you're saying there is just plain implausible unless the air itself kills the viruses with remarkable efficiency, in which case it would survive for only minutes on a hard surface (like HIV), rather than hours (like influenza). From what I've read, it survives for hours on hard surfaces, which lends serious doubt to any claim that Ebola exhibits an "almost complete lack of aerosol transmission".

    Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Ebola is airborne. It currently is not (or at least it is not currently believed to be). However, it is unsafe to assume that the way a virus behaves in Africa (hot weather, high humidity, little use of HVAC, mostly rural, families that stay home to care for the sick) will match the way it would behave in the United States (highly variable air temperatures, potentially low humidity because of the use of HVAC, heavily urban, people who go to work even when sick). Such a conclusion would be fundamentally invalid because it doesn't control for an absolutely insane number of variables.

    In particular, with airborne diseases, propagation by aerosol transmission increases rather dramatically when the air is cold and the humidity is low (particularly when it is insanely low because of HVAC). That's one reason why the cold and flu season in the U.S. spikes markedly during the winter. In the parts of Africa where Ebola is currently found, the hot air temperature and relatively high humidity don't lend themselves to aerosol transmission. So there's a distinct possibility that the exact same strain of disease that is not airborne in Africa would be airborne in the United States.

    Such temperature-dependent and humidity-dependent behavior would also be consistent with researchers' conclusions after an October 1989 lab incident in which the closely related Ebola Reston virus spread rapidly among physically isolated populations of lower primates. "Due to the spread of infection to animals in all parts of the quarantine facility, it is likely that Ebola Reston may have been spread by airborne transmission." (Beltz, Lisa. Emerging Infectious Diseases. 253)

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  19. Re:Incomplete analysis by riverat1 · · Score: 2

    In a country like Liberia with its poor transportation systems I think the 101st Airborne Division with their helicopters and skilled pilots is one of the things you need to deliver material and personnel in the area. From the Whitehouse Fact Sheet on the response:

    Scaling-up the DoD presence in West Africa. Following the completion of AFRICOM’s assessment, DoD announced the planned deployment of 3,200 troops, including 700 from the 101st Airborne Division headquarters element to Liberia. These forces will deploy in late October and become the headquarters staff for the Joint Forces Command, led by Major General Gary Volesky. The total U.S. troop commitment will depend on the requirements on the ground;

    So out of at least 3,200 troops only 700 of them are from the 101st Airborne and the other units are yet to be specified. It makes sense to jump start the transportation system so the guys that follow can hit the ground running (or at least jogging ;). If there are 100 choppers and pilots it probably takes the other 600 to support them. You need mechanics, airfield personnel for things like fueling and air traffic control, a kitchen to feed 700 people or more, a medical unit and the officers to manage it all.

  20. Re:What does require those things? by dbIII · · Score: 2

    There never where smart people here, just technicians and wannabe technicians with an inflated sense of self importance.

    Not true, when this site started I was a professional engineer - it's only now that I'm a wannabe technician with an inflated sense of self importance.

  21. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 2

    It almost certainly does only survive for minutes on hard surfaces. The surfaces it survives on longer are those which are literally covered in blood and bodily fluids for it to reside in.