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NY Doctor Recently Back From West Africa Tests Positive For Ebola
An anonymous reader writes An emergency room doctor who recently returned to the city after treating Ebola patients in West Africa has tested positive for the virus, Mayor Bill de Blasio said. It's the first case in the city and the fourth in the nation. From the article: "The doctor, identified as Craig Spencer, 33, came back from treating Ebola patients in Guinea about 10 days ago, and developed a fever, nausea, pain and fatigue Wednesday night. The physician, employed at New York's Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, has been in isolation at Bellevue Hospital in Manhattan since Thursday morning, the official said."
I saw the news about the poor doctor in NYC. Yikes, before I draw any conclusions, do we have any pieces by Bennett Haselton on the Ebola outbreak or diseases in general? I'd like to see what his insight is first. He's a frequent contributor.
You boys laughed when it was in Texas. Not so much now, huh?
Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Professor: Yes I would, Kent.
IMHO, either Ebola is easier to transmit than we are being told _OR_ these Ebola doctors who get the disease are FSKING IDIOTS
if it is so damn hard to get, how the hell do Doctors who should be the best at following procedure can get?
i think people are just morons, no matter what degrees they have
Thank you Dave Raggett
I doubt there's much overlap between the Slashdot audience and Michael Savage listeners; but he nailed this story cold weeks ago. He warned us we weren't doing anything that makes sense. We need to hold all returnees in quarantine for 21 days, or just ban them outright until the country from which they return is ebola-free. It really is that simple.
Where are the 10,000 news for all the African ebola cases... or even from the first case in Mali ?
oh, yeah, that's true, we don't give a shit about them, unless they import the disease in "our" territory
1) stop going to africa
2) wait for aids and ebola to depopulate the continent
3) turn africa into a nature preserve
If its so hard to catch, then why the space suits?
And because Ebola the virus has everything to do with USA politics, democrats are going to get steamrolled on this issue.
My friend works at Bellevue, my other friend took the 1 train (train the doctor took to go bowling last night while experiencing "sick symptoms") the same night he did and I take the 1 train every day to and friend work.
There are people who live and are stuck in Africa who have a millions times more the reason to be concerned than I am, I understand this.
What I don't agree with are the people who are using things like Malaria and HIV statistics to try and show how the media is playing up this issue.
Both are less serious and more controllable diseases with much bigger sample sizes. As/if more Ebola cases arise, the contractions will increase exponentially and they'll stop comparing this to "more serious diseases".
What I don't understand is why they are letting doctors who work on Ebola patients back into teh country without being screened?
There are people arguing to shut down all travel from West Africa, even if that's too much in your opinion, at least screen these doctors.
Customs: What was your reason for leaving the country?
Doctor: I was treating patients with Ebola.
Customs: Due to national security, we can not let you into the country until you've been tested and cleared.
Doctor: But I have plans to go bowling in Brooklyn in about week!
Customs: You're retarded.
Chances are, the conversation wouldn't happen like that and the doctor would be understanding of the situation.
So why aren't we just doing that to begin with?
1) What is the likelihood of harm?
2) If harm occurs, what is the cost?
3) What is the cost of preventing harm, including the opportunity cost?
And allocate resources accordingly. In this case:
1) Extremely low. Approx. 3 people in the US have Ebola; all were in West Africa or treated someone already very ill. Nobody else in the US has been infected by these people (again, except someone providing health care to one of them). You are at much greater risk of heart disease, cancer, traffic accidents, hospital error, crime, and probably even lightening strikes and bee stings.
2) The cost is very high, including a substantial risk of death.
3) The cost is easily affordable for the US, but the opportunity cost is higher: The United States and the world have limited health care resources. For example, there's a good chance that many of the resources (doctors and money) would save many more lives and better protect US citizens by addressing heart disease (via prevention, treatment, or research) or controlling the outbreak in W. Africa than by responding to public panic.
I think you'll find that many experts in these fields will say that the panic is the greatest risk, greater than the disease.
Like the other guy said ....
Let us know when (in the USA) the number of people killed by Ebola is greater than the number of people killed by cows.
Until then we can hold off on the panic.
There are plenty of grownups in those countries. They can look after themselves. I'll take care of my family.
They keep saying it is hard to transmit, since it is not airborne like influenza. But really. Just a drop of infected blood or vomit or sweat on your skin can kill you.
Putting any human being previously *surrounded* by Ebola victims at their most contagious - regardless of being a Doctor or not - in a *hospital* without waiting 1.3x of the known incubation period is just... asking for it.
Medical Screener: So I see you've been treating people infected with the Ebola virus Dr. Ebola; Yup Medical Screener: Are you infected? Dr. Ebola: Nope Medical Screener: Ok, ok enjoy your subway ride back to Manhattan. If this is how we're going to manage this outbreak, we are completely screwed. And it's likely already too late. That Dr took a few subway rides and likely infected at least a couple dozen people in the process. Thats more than enough to start a substantial outbreak around the US and likely the entire planet.
Fuck you AC , don't encourage him !
Before returning to US, medical personnel should have 1-2 days isolated rest and repeat PCR screening. Restricted social activities and monitoring for 21 days after last African contact.
1. The FDA is hindering rapid PCR test kits. Issue temporary permits, buy 10-20 provisional PCR kits for 5 airports and upgrade every 1-2 quarters. F--- the FDA.
2. Stage and slow the return of West African visitors to social exposures.
3. Flush anybody questionable with 2-5 days of IV vitamin C 80,000 mg tid, 50,000 iu vitamin D3 per day, selenium and zinc. These kill viruses.
4. Allow protection for unknowns, like some earlier contagious exposure before gross symptoms
5. Do better allowance in design for superspreader incidents.
They are screening and putting every returning health care professional on a health watch. The issue is that the incubation period for ebola can be up to 21 days. The doctor in question arrived at John F. Kennedy Airport on October 17 with no symptoms. Symptoms did not show up until this morning when the doctor followed protocol and was hospitalized. The virus may not even have shown up in his blood on October 17. Remember that infection tests look for antibodies not the virus itself. If the virus had not attacked yet there would be no anybodies.
thanks for the response...
my point is, that if YOU know this then the people who make the procedures must also...and therefore there already be adaptations/improvements to procedures OR if that can't happen then quarrantine
if we know the threat exists, that's enough information to mitigate it in SOME way
that's the problem here IMHO...
Thank you Dave Raggett
i guess you can say i was going for "doing an idiotic thing" not "inherently an idiot"
maybe "being an idiot" or "made an idiotic mistake"
idk...but this isn't a cup of hot green tea here...the whole idea is they're supposed to cover all the angles!
Thank you Dave Raggett
i'm all for an abundance of caution...let them wear the HAZMAT stuff....
what kills me is that I've worked with hazardous materials in a construction setting, and there's always a trade-off between being bulky safety equipment and time
but...there is sort of a line you don't cross...like hard hats...some job sites are "Hard Hat Only" as soon as you enter the property...which is a bit silly...but you're an idiot if you are guiding a crane placing I-beams and don't have your Hard Hat on
see what I mean?
i just don't see why competent people can't get this right
Thank you Dave Raggett
[ Just saw Megyn Kelly on The Kelly File talking about this - so pretty, but so stupid. And in other surprising news, she's a blond on Fox News. Wait, did I say "surprising news" - damn. Again, sorry. ]
Ya, you don't like it, but know I'm right... :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
If you have the virus in your body fluid and you project your body fluid then you can transmit the disease. Farts, Coughs, Sneeze, tears, blood etc. But the disease is exponential you have far far far more of it right after you die then before. Likewise far far far more of it when you are showing symptoms but you can spread it before its just much less likely So normal contact is safe early but can be deadly later on. There also seems to be a immune system lottery with some people being more able to fight it off than others. The problem with NYC is that one person just one who is highly contagious in the subway and thousands could catch it. One crazy homeless person who gets it and no one notices and goes to die by way of subway and its everywhere. Africa just doesn't have the density of NYC
well that's real talk...i can understand "circumstances" i suppose...it is still a dumb mistake IMHO
as i was saying above in another comment, I've worked with hazardous construction materials...nothing like Ebola obv...but we had to wear protective gear and it got annoying
ex: Hard Hat...some jobs require hard hats everywhere, even outdoors in the open air...it's not crazy to cheat a bit in that area...however, only an idiot would go into an area with heavy work being done above them w/o the hard hat...in fact, other workers would stop you as soon as they saw you b/c an injury on site wastes a ton of time
there's strict rules and then common sense and the the line you don't cross...what I'm saying is, given that he was a *doctor* and *knew he was handling Ebola* it seems weird that he'd do something that would put him near that line
Thank you Dave Raggett
The healthcare workers going over there *know* the risks they are taking. We should *not* be letting any of them back into the country until a 30-day quarantine, whether healthcare worker or not. It's not fair, it'll cause some to be tempted to break the rules, but there is still no reasons to pretend this disease isn't that contagious and treat it like the plague it is! If this becomes an apocolyptic pandemic due to political correctness, people will be a lot less likely to get this fair of treatment.
In this case we have a full blown Ebola outbreak and the fucking retarded administration wants to keep open transport because they're afraid it would look like discrimination.
What you're describing is Obola.
IMHO your "opinion" is very very humble indeed and belongs in the category of "uneducated careless speculation with a sensationalist bent".
It may have escaped your notice, but doctors who help out in West-African hospitals come into close contact with a constant stream of very ill people who are in the stadium where they really are contagious, every day for months at a stretch.
Their protective clothing prevents transmission in the vast majority (say 99,9%) of cases (something you can tell by the fact that we still have doctors left treating Ebola patients). The real danger comes when you take off your protective suit. That has to be done carefully so as not to touch the splatters of blood, muckus, tears, sweat etcetera that very ill patients secrete and if possible it has to be decontaminated first.
Now I'm sure your "humble" and uneducated opinion never has been schooled in elementary probability so you wouldn't understand things like P(contagion_after_100_days) = 1 - [P(no_contagion_after_1_day)]^100, but try it this way.
Playing the lottery every day makes it unlikely that you won't win a single prize.
And so it is with medical personnel who treat Ebola patient for months. They run a risk.
So it's no conspiracy (I can feel your incredulity and disappointment) and no case of "fsking idiots" (a term which I'd like to reserve for you personally).
It's easy to shout your (thoroughly humble) head off about stuff you don't understand, but it's not helping anybody and it stands in the way of a rational attitude towards Ebola.
P.S. there is absolutely nothing "insightful" about your post. On the other hand it's revealing. Revealing of a mindset that couples a penchant for conspiracy theories with a complete lack of understanding of risk and a disdain for plain ordinary everyday scientific commonsense that seems to have whizzed over your (so very humble) head.
The ebola outbreak started on March. In 5 months there have been 10,000 cases in countries known for their low health care and sanitation standards. Considering that in many places the population is very crowded and many cases of infection do not get reported until the symptoms get very bad I bet that every person in infected areas would have been in close proximity with at least one ebola infected person. If ebola was as contagious as some people think don't you think a lot more than 0.045% of the population of those countries would be infected by now?
What may be a source of the concern is all the pictures of people in suits carrying body bags. This skews perception as those people are in contact with a corpse that has ebola laden excretions all over it. When an ebola victim has just died that is when they are the most contagious.
My friend works at Bellevue, my other friend took the 1 train (train the doctor took to go bowling last night while experiencing "sick symptoms") the same night he did and I take the 1 train every day to and friend work.
It's bad in Africa because they have terrible heathcare. Instead of seeking medical care people get care from friends and family who don't know what they're doing, thus they become infected themselves and the disease spreads.
This guy having spread the disease on the train is possible, but very unlikely.
There are people arguing to shut down all travel from West Africa, even if that's too much in your opinion, at least screen these doctors.
They are screened but the virus has an incubation period.
There are people arguing to shut down all travel from West Africa, even if that's too much in your opinion, at least screen these doctors.
Customs: What was your reason for leaving the country?
Doctor: I was treating patients with Ebola.
Customs: Due to national security, we can not let you into the country until you've been tested and cleared.
Doctor: But I have plans to go bowling in Brooklyn in about week!
Customs: You're retarded.
A travel ban is a terrible idea, people will still travel from West Africa but they'll do it from other countries so we won't know to track them. A 3 week quarantine (outlast the incubation period) isn't much different due to its huge burden.
There is one good idea though, remember that saying about terrorists, "we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here". Well that's exactly the right approach for Ebola. If you want to protect the US from Ebola then you need to send US medical personnel and other resources to West Africa to help fight the outbreak. The risk to the US isn't a random few travellers from a handful of countries in West Africa. It's the disease continuing to flourish in West Africa and eventually popping up in India, China, and South America.
Whatever the ability of the US to handle a few lone cases it would be much worse for Brazil or Mexico. And whatever you think of the difficulty of keeping sick Africans out of the US it's far harder to keep out sick Mexicans.
If you want to stay safe then make it easy for US doctors to help in West Africa.
I stole this Sig
Is doing this on purpose so as to distract the American people from other things, like Fast & Furious, Bengazi, the wiretapping scandals, the spying on American citizens, ACORN, the IRS scandals, Holder, the economic bailouts, the deficit, Michelle cheating on him, his inability to speak without a teleprompter, ObamaCare, the Pigford scandal, Sibelius, and his fake birth certificate?
Now I dare you to say everything in that list is invalid because I added a reference to his Kenyan heritage.
Is the irresponsible asses. Anybody coming from these regions should be put in at minimum a 2 week quarantine, and ideally a month, just to be sure.
It's not like that's a huge concession for helping people and it ensures, especially for practicing doctors, that they won't be accidentally spreading this to patients.
For fuck's sake this is a perfect example of which TSA/DHS/CDC etc should be trying to profile and protect us from. If *NOT* then they really *ARE* useless and the money might as well be spent as 'welfare', since that's basically all those jobs act as.
Well that and feature creep with all those VIPR teams.
It's wannabe yuppie Texas imports that are causing most of the retardism in Texas. It started with the oil barons and it's gotten worse since. Most of the ACTUAL Texans I've known, with 3 generations or more of continuous living there are generally educated to a college level, and prior to the 90s or so were pretty counterculture. (The old joke about a Texas sheriff knowing somebody was suspicious if there wasn't an open container in the vehicle used to be true! Thanks MADD for ruining Texan cultural heritage!)
That said it really seems to be the baby boomers instigating it, with the 70s-90s kids now too incompetent/lazy/impotent to clean up the mess.
Enforce a 21 day quarantine and you won't be getting any travellers from ebola countries. Instead you'll get travellers from the neighbouring countries, or some convenient 3rd country where it's easy to switch flights. And no, there is no way to know who came from the ebola country.
cue panic!
Only investment in African infrastructure will stem infections coming from there. Saved lives are the only payoff though, so doubtful the 1% will be willing to go for that.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
And then burn the body. Lets stop pretending we can care for such people without introducing more harm.
I hope robot companies are doing R&D on how their robots, instead of Ebola care-givers, could do dangerous work.
Gizmodo has an article on robots fighting Ebola. The article lists ways that robots could be used, including removing biowaste, and delivering supplies to people who are healthy but cut off.
which idiot is letting these people fly...
One thing that seems very relevant, but never discussed: Why comes first, symptoms, or contagiousness?
If a person isn't contagious until well after showing symptoms, I can kind of see the current lax screening as being reasonable.
But otherwise, it seems inexcusable.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
CNN Reports: "A Vectors Without Borders physician back from West Africa tests positive for Ebola at a New York hospital."
Seastead this.
Lightning kills around 25 people per year in the US. Bees killed about 50 last year. Traffic kills 30000 per year. Violent crime around 20000. Ebola is still far behind, lets hope it stays there.
Chances are, the conversation wouldn't happen like that
Mainly because the USA has signed treaties that make it illegal to refuse entry to a citizen.
That, and when you make a self-report of risk be a metric for spreading the risk, you increase the risk and the amount of lying. But you don't help anyone. So your plan fails for many reasons.
Learn to love Alaska
Proficiency Testing needs to be more like 2 days.
I asked a Doctor what he thought about CDC's first effort on protocol, and found the doctor thought the protocol was rather complicated.
The newly issued requirements may be even more so, but acknowledge that fact by requiring a person to be present who's sole responsibility is to make sure the protective equipment is put on and taken off correctly.
Chances are, the conversation wouldn't happen like that
Mainly because the USA has signed treaties that make it illegal to refuse entry to a citizen.
That, and when you make a self-report of risk be a metric for spreading the risk, you increase the risk and the amount of lying. But you don't help anyone. So your plan fails for many reasons.
Wait a minute. The USA ignores treaties left and right and constantly bombs and invades countries because they want to leave the US-dollar as reserve currency. They torture and hold people without trial. They pay millions to destabilize Syria, Ukraine and dozens of other countries.
But they can't refuse entry because of some treaty with Libera?
Since when did the USA care about any treaty?
This asshole should be shot in Times Square for this idiocy. Knowingly going to a place where he could contract the virus then BRINGING IT BACK TO NEW YORK CITY? He goes bowling in Willamsburg like there is nothing to worry about when he's within the gestation period?! What is the #1 way to prevent the spread of a virus? Anyone would say isolation. Why are we even allowing flights to/from these countries? Who ever is in charge of these government agencies should be forced to resign. This idiot should burn.
Probably because the final stages of Ebola involves your internal organs melting and being vomited everywhere.
...after all, he was just an ignorant shlub that brought Ebola here.
This dipshit however was a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, coming back from TREATING PEOPLE WITH EBOLA who 'felt like crap' for several days (enough so that he was taking his temp regularly) and couldn't apparently be trusted to quarantine himself out of basic precautionary concern. Nope, he had to maintain his urbanite/hipster lifestyle - jogging, taxis, bowling, etc.
Doc: "DO NO HARM" applies just as much to the millions of people around you, as to your actual patient.
Here's a general tip: if you're working directly with Ebola patients, how about you just say "hey, friends, I just got back from West Africa; I feel fine, but just to be careful I'm not spreading a highly communicable deadly disease, I'm going to hang out at home alone for a few weeks, just to be safe."
I'm going to guess your friends and colleagues will appreciate your concern.
-Styopa
The continuing transmission of Ebola to healthcare workers, who have supposedly taken prescribed precautions, is truly alarming. For all the banal references by the CDC to 'protocol', it doesn't seem effective. How can anyone returning from the hot zone in West Africa not be quarantined for 30 days? The Obama Administration is needlessly putting America at risk.
Why it's wrong that we don't require a mandatory 21 day quarantine for anyone travelling from these countries if we truly want to stop the virus from ever getting a hold?
Top it off - this guy went bowling while starting to show symptoms (thus, contagious). Who is going to replace and pay for EVERY bowling ball? What about decontamination of the facility? If I were the owner, I'd be pretty pissed off.
There's a thousand news sites which post this type of news. Slashdot sure loves posting drama & political BS.
So maybe it just makes too much sense for a Doctor to understand, or maybe we couldn't possibly inconvenience the prima-donna's too much, but how about something sensible like a 7-14 day mandatory quarantine and then testing for folks that want to visit there before we let them get on a plane and fly back into the our country and expose others?
It is not contagious until the patient is symptomatic. The question is, when is "symptomatic"? It seams from Duncan's case and the nurses in Dallas that usually (or always) the symptoms precede infectiousness. It also sounds like the doctor in NYC was checking himself twice a day and when his temperature went up he called authorities.
This thread is full of ridiculous ides like doorknob-ebola which from my limited reading seems absolutely not possible. Like man viruses, ebola does not live long outside the body -- that's why it's not transmitted through food/air/water.
That's true of the iPhone 6+, as well.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
One thing that seems very relevant, but never discussed: Why comes first, symptoms, or contagiousness?
If a person isn't contagious until well after showing symptoms, I can kind of see the current lax screening as being reasonable.
But otherwise, it seems inexcusable.
Have you even tried to find out the answer to this? Every news report I have seen says that an ebola patient is not contagious until they have symptoms.
AKA - Zombie Apocalypse. Is it time to panic yet?
One thing that seems very relevant, but never discussed: Why comes first, symptoms, or contagiousness?
If a person isn't contagious until well after showing symptoms, I can kind of see the current lax screening as being reasonable.
But otherwise, it seems inexcusable.
The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period.
source
Never discussed? Only in the US media, I imagine. Because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Symptoms come first. (It's sort of vaguely possible that it could be present in the semen of an asymptomatic person I think).
So far ebola hasn't ever been successfully isolated in simple sweat alone, as far as I've read. It is blood/faeces/vomit/semen of a symptomatic person.
I gotta ask, what is it with these Presbyterians who keep getting people infected with ebola?
Disclaimer: Christian, raised Presbyterian
Perception is the thin dividing line between reality and fiction.
What I don't agree with are the people who are using things like Malaria and HIV statistics to try and show how the media is playing up this issue.
You may not agree with it, but that is exactly what they are doing.
Both are less serious and more controllable diseases with much bigger sample sizes.
I don't even....
As/if more Ebola cases arise, the contractions will increase exponentially and they'll stop comparing this to "more serious diseases".
Not happening, at least not in countries with reasonable sanitary practices. Ebola is difficult to catch, and it has a high mortality rate. These two factors prevent it from becoming the next big pandemic. To wit, the guy who was first diagnosed in the US was in Dallas, a city of 1.5 million people. Out of those 1.5 million people, he infected two, and they were the nurses who were directly caring for him.
Yes Ebola is lethal, but so is EEE and yet I don't see you in a panic about EEE (and that's spread by mosquitos). You're far more likely to get EEE than Ebola (along with a whole host of other diseases). You're more likely to die falling out of your chair while reading this than die from Ebola.
What I don't understand is why they are letting doctors who work on Ebola patients back into teh country without being screened?
There are people arguing to shut down all travel from West Africa, even if that's too much in your opinion, at least screen these doctors.
Customs: What was your reason for leaving the country?
Doctor: I was treating patients with Ebola.
Customs: Due to national security, we can not let you into the country until you've been tested and cleared.
Doctor: But I have plans to go bowling in Brooklyn in about week!
Customs: You're retarded.
Chances are, the conversation wouldn't happen like that and the doctor would be understanding of the situation.
So why aren't we just doing that to begin with?
Because it would be ineffective. As has been mentioned numerous times, it's easy enough to lie and/or take a circuitous/non-documented route. Screening for possible Ebola victims would be about as effective as screening for terrorists: UST (Useless Security Theater).
~X~
You made an incorrect assumption.
Most North American medical staff are *not* up to speed on proper procedures for this sort of thing, nor is the standard protective gear sufficient. That's why the CDC is going to be going around giving training at hospitals.
I heard that the MSF recommended procedures for removing the protective gear involves nine separate hand washings.
Anyone travelling into these ebola stricken countries who come in close contact with anyone should be forced to be quarantined before leaving. An official release should be issued upon clearing 25 day ebola screening allowing travel from those countries. I don't give a good gosh darn if you are Jimmy Carter or Melvin Spenard. Get quarantined.
This is not altruistic. Doctors without Borders, missionaries, etc. are a bunch of idiots. Any "doctor" attempting to aid Ebola patients without having the ability to work in the proper hazard suit should be stripped of their degree.
I take it you've never been on an airplane?
Cabin loses air pressure. You are about to die from lack of oxygen. Do you
A: Attempt to help the person next to you before putting on your own mask and risk collapsing on them and hindering their ability to put on their own mask.
B: Put on your own mask first.
These morons who want fame should be put in prison. If they had any desire to actually help the Ebola patients they would work in a lab towards the vaccine effort.
3 rules.
1. If you are there, you stay there.
2. If you go there, you stay there.
3. If you try to leave (without being in closely monitored, single person isolated - think bubble boy - quarantine for a minimum of 30 days) we kill you with fire.
Bloody hell... How many lives are the political correctness police going to cost us before we (the world at large) actually have the will to do what is necessary to protect billions of people from a few thousand infected.
This is not hard. There is no hard problem here ... Only lack of will.
-habit
From the WHO site;
Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.
The closest thing the doctor has before he quarantined himself was "feeling a bit fatigued". I doubt very much if he was infectious before his fever hit.
So this supports both sides of the article. First its hard to get infected in the early fever stages. Even Ducan's bedmate did not become infected. On the other hand two medical workers who thought they were taking precautions got infected when Ducan's disease had progressed further.
Why hasn't all countries (especially this one) closed the freaking boarders to Africa yet???
It just doesn't make sense to me.
I heard a funny joke about Ebola the other day.
I'd repeat it here, but you probably won't get it.
I don't think they now. With typical viral diseases, subjects are mildly contagious for a day or two before the start of the symptoms.
Listen....and understand....
that ebola virus is out there....
it can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't understand pity, or remorse, or fear.
and it absolutely will not stop
ever
until you are dead......
So we quarantine for 21 days. Is this difficult to understand?
Baloney. There are always health provisions in visa arrangements. No one's hands are tied. Nor do you rely on self report. If there is a passport stamp from Liberia or other problematic country we should require a 21 day quarantine. If there is no stamp then no entry and assumed infectious person for the purpose of deportation(21 day hold). There are longstanding conventions for dealing with infectious disease between countries. The US is just deciding to ignore the options and is taking the lax route. There is no money in responsible health policy so why should a corporatist regime care? the gov is gambling.
So? Seriously, the risks are high enough that a 21 day quarantine would be reasonable. After all, it wouldn't need to be a very strict quarantine. E.g. visitors should be no problem, as long as there's no physical contact.
Cuba was essentially banned from travel destinations for Americans. If you had a passport stamp from Cuba, then you were presumed a criminal, during the embargo. So, Cuba "retaliated" by stopping stamping US passports.
So how'd that work out for filtering based on passport stamps?
Also, it's estimated that 1% to 5% of Americans have multiple citizenships. So go to Libera on your "foreign" passport, and back in the US on the "clean" passport.
There are always health provisions in visa arrangements.
Baloney. Visas are agreements to go to a non-citizen country, you don't need a visa to go to the US on a US passport. So "arrangements" for health couldn't be made in a visa. Period. The US can prevent citizens from leaving, but not from re-entering.
The closest legal thing the US can do is to quarantine those who are suspicious. Quarantine all doctors for 30 days upon arrival, as well as any black-looking people. Right?
Learn to love Alaska
really..."look like a fool"
i said safety equipment can be bulky and annoying, and cheating in some areas is understandable, but there is a line you do not cross that everyone in the site understands
so...
what about that makes me "look like a fool"
be specific...it will help if you cite my original comment
Thank you Dave Raggett
Not to sound prejudice, but knowing that there is a crisis happening why wouldn't they quarantine anyone coming from Africa first to make sure they are safe to be released into the country?
It seems like a no brainer really.
And if an individual's immune response is slow or poor, there may not BE any antibodies until too late for the test to catch.
The obvious solution is a 4 week quarantine (to make sure every case is discovered -- a few may incubate beyond the usual) everyone who's been in West Africa.
This isn't "denying a citizen entry"; it's delaying it due to sheer common sense.
Better, tho, would be to quarantine the affected parts of West Africa as best we can; let people in, but don't let them back out. Because what we're doing now is pretty much guaranteeing ebola's spread.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Which is exactly what was has been talked about and dismissed as being an over reaction.
The main problem with the 28 day quarantine is that fewer people would be willing to help if they knew that they would have to not work for 28 days after they got back. This would decrease the number of available health workers and extend the epidemic.
Better, tho, would be to quarantine the affected parts of West Africa
Unless you can station soldiers along ever border of these countries all you are going to do is cause people to flee and spread the disease further.
The main thing we need to do is prevent panic. Both your suggestions will contribute to that panic. Your plan is basically wall them off and let them die. That is a bad plan.
If the choices boil down to "wall them off and let them die" or "spread the epidemic far and wide" -- yeah, I know which one I'd choose.
So far it appears that the more treatment is attempted, the worse it gets, because the caregivers are at such risk, and some will need treatment in turn... rinse and repeat until there are no caregivers left.
Quarantine may not be kind to the victims, but spreading it around so everyone can share isn't kind to anyone.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
In the entire world in the past seven months of the outbreak there has been exactly three cases of someone being infected by someone returning from the infected area. All of those cases were nurses who had close contact with a patient just before they died. All other cases outside the infected area have been people who were infected in the infection zone because the came in close contact with someone dying from the disease.
Read some facts about ebola before you spread disinformation and panic.The measures you propose are an overreaction.
Really?
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-...
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That is a prediction from one doctor and may or may not come true. It is not based on any factual happening.
Considering that he discovered the virus and has established expertise, I'm inclined to give his opinion a lot more weight, including where he thinks it could go.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
His specialty is microbiology and not epidemiology. He is qualified to find the virus but not necessarily how the virus will spread. His work with Ebola was almost 40 years ago. Most of his recent work has been HIV/AIDS.
From the article;
"In Africa, there are many Chinese working there. So that could be a risk for China in general, and I assume that one day [an outbreak of Ebola in China] will happen," said Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
The word "assume" can be translated to "I have no evidence that it will happen but I will say it anyway".