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Why CurrentC Will Beat Out Apple Pay
itwbennett writes Working closely with VISA, Apple solved many complex security issues making in-person payments safer than ever. But it's that close relationship with the credit card companies that may be Apple Pay's downfall. A competing solution called CurrentC has recently gained a lot of press as backers of the project moved to block NFC payments (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc.) at their retail terminals. The merchants designing or backing CurrentC reads like a greatest hits list of retail outfits and leading the way is the biggest of them all, Walmart. The retailers have joined together to create a platform that is independent of the credit card companies and their profit-robbing transaction fees. Hooking directly to your bank account rather than a credit or debit card, CurrentC will use good old ACH to transfer money from your account to the merchant's bank account at little to no cost.
I wont be giving away access to my bank accounts. Sorry, not gonna happen.
And the next time they have a data breach?
That's just full of "Nope!"
Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
They will also forgo those profit-robbing security measures.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Seriously, I kinda want a buffer between my actual money and the companies I do business with. Someone who will take the hit while dispute is handled. This is why I use a credit card. I've toyed with google wallet and I actually like it as a easy tool to send money between friends. What I don't want to see is a world where to make payments I need to give my personal information to a dozen companies with incompatible standards.
The fact that they are blocking competition is enough to insure I won't be using their product.
No consumer protection? No ability to use one's own card? What is this, 1997?
Nice try, guys.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
The fine article misses one thing: What the customer wants. After at least three breaches, each with millions and millions of card details lost to hackers, nobody wants their data stored on a server that is handled by a retail company. They don't want to hand over all the information to the retail company. They don't want the stone age interface that the retail companies suggest.
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
The retailers can build CurrentC but they can't force customers to use it. The payment process sounds terrible; it'll be easier to just pull out your credit card and pay with that.
If I pay with my Visa card, I get cash back, and an extended warranty on my purchases. So far I haven't heard that CurrentC has any of these benefits.
Why would I use it?
Looking through CurrentC it does everything for Merchants, and nothing for customers.
- Requires to be tied to checking account or debit card
- Customer assumes 100% of liability for fraud (?!)
- Retailer can gather all purchase data on a customer
- Requires multistep actions including scanning QR codes
What benefit is in there for the customer? You know people are going to freak out around the liability part. I know the retailers want to reduce their transaction fee, but unless they throw some level of enticement (such as a discount) you probably won't see adoption of this. Conversely a discount will just nullify the transaction fee. I'm of the belief CurrentC is DOA.
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"And may your days be long upon the earth."
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/s... But seriously, give Walmart et al direct access to my bank account using 40 year old ACH technology? And trust them to have no security holes, fraud protection that credit cards provide on individual transactions, etc. etc. etc. I think not.
I wonder if the CC Companies will start a "Transaction War" with CurrentC, threatening to either cut-off or raise the per-transaction fees for those retailers who sign exclusive deals with CurrentC?
Afterall, if it does catch-on, that could be a major loss of income for the CC Companies and their attendant verification services.
There is no reason to stop contactless transactions except greed! those retailers pay very low transactions fees (less than 0.2%). They just don't want NFC to be successful as mobile payments standard. In Europe there are five times more NFC contactless POS systems, especially because of EMV, and increasing rapidly.
Not when nobody with more than 2 brain cells will use it.
From the summary:
Therefore, we can reasonably assume that CurrentC will take off like wildfire.
Not even my wife has access to my bank account. Nice try, honey.
Wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I'm sure someone can explain this... to me it sounds like an attempt to invent a new generic credit card that uses an existing popular financial transaction network.
1. One of the terms of service is exclusivity - if you use CurrentC, you can't use any other kind of mobile wallet system.
2. It is more like a debit card than a credit card - the money comes directly out of your bank account.
3. As such, it has none of the legal protections that a credit card has. With a debit card, pretty much all banks offer the same protection on debit cards anyway, because it's good for their business. CurrentC won't be run by banks, it will be run by some of the largest retailers in the country - Walmart, etc. None of the political pressures that keep banks on the straight and narrow apply.
4. CurrentC requires - cannot possibly work without - that you give the retailer all the information needed to take as much money as they choose directly from your bank account. These are the same retailers who have had hundreds of millions of credit card numbers stolen from their servers in the last couple of years. They have proven, conclusively, that they cannot be trusted.
5. CurrentC is about more than just transaction fees. It is also about turning the customer into a product - they require a lot of personal information that is completely irrelevant to the transaction - like health information (which they are also incapable of protecting) - to set up the account.
6. CurrentC is based on QR Codes, which is just stupid.
I'll go back to carrying cash before I use a mess like that. Or barter. Or growing my own food on a mountain top somewhere.
Apple Pay became the biggest wireless payment solution in just 72 hours. And it doesn't involve the most convoluted QR code scanning scheme on the planet to work. And the 50 other things other people have mentioned...
Not to dispute your point, but your conclusion is wrong. When the largest backer is Wal Mart, you don't assume a high I.Q. in the customer base.
The ONLY way I would even think of using this is if I could link it to a Paypal account (backed by a CC, of course)
Otherwise I have no intention of using it. (And I'm talking my intention is only like 1% over nothing at that point because I don't want another app to bring up just to BUY something for the merchant's convenience.)
ApplePay is novel and I've used it several times for "fun" and I'm sure it's more secure but it's still easier for me to whip out my CC (which has chip and pin) and use it over my iPhone. (unless I'm texing in line... or surfing the net in line...)
But NOTHING ties directly into my bank account... I saw Star Trek the Motion Picture! I know what happens when you channel the phasers directly into the main engines! It's not pretty!
Very US - rest of the world already has this NFC standard. If ApplePay were proprietary I would agree it would lose out long term, but it's not - this is a global standard. As soon as Apple start enabling international cards for it, it's just BAU for non-US retailers. This isn't even a change, it's already happened - for example, I bought my lunch using this system earlier today.
Not like banks have any profit-robbing security measures in place. If there weren't laws in place forcing them to indemnify/limit the customer exposer against fraud, do you think they would bother?
When banks started to issue VISA/MasterCard credit cards in my country (one of the ex-commie countries) some 15 years ago, they had no clue about what they were doing - when I asked how it works in case of fraud, the clerk told me with a straight face that I have to bring a receipt from the sale and they will claim the money back from the seller. Yeah right, someone who swipes my cc number is going to give me a receipt ... The clerk couldn't fathom that such situation could occur, because nobody ever uses the card outside of an ATM or a POS terminal, right? (and those cannot be tampered with, right?)
Basically, if someone swiped your card, you were screwed - hopefully you had a sufficiently low withdrawal/payment limit on the card, otherwise your account could have been completely emptied.
Not defending CurrentC here (can be pretty much even worse), but the illusion that a credit card is somehow more secure is really that - an illusion ...
So what makes the backers of CurrentC think that Apple and Google will allow a CurrentC app in either of their respective app stores after their methods were blocked?
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Pissed might be too strong a word but I have a Walgreens right down the street from the CVS and Rite-Aid. Only one supports Apple Pay so guess which one I'm going to use if I want to use Apple Pay? (or Google's alternatives) I'm certainly not going to do business with someone who makes my life less convenient. This CurrentC "solution" is all benefit to the merchant and none to me. I can't see a single redeeming benefit to me. Less convenient, more risk and seemingly limited liability protection? No thanks.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
Dead on. Retailers have clearly shown they cannot be trusted to keep customer data secure. It's bad enough with a credit card. There is no way in hell I'm giving any major retailer direct (ACH) access to my bank account. They must be doing some heavy drugs if they think I am dumb enough to do that.
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This is one case where both Apple and Google could and should work together, to jointly ban the app until the companies involved open NFC back up for transactions again. Without an app CurrentC is dead in the water.
Especially Google should be upset, because Android users had working NFC payments at many of these stores for years before the ApplePay launch triggered the NFC lockout.
Frankly I'd almost be OK with both Apple and Google banning the app on the grounds of it being so close to spyware as you cannot tell the difference... it requires a lot of information and collects as much as it can that it doesn't need permission for.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Robbing? Really? Merchants don’t have to accept credit card transaction and Apple Pay cost them no more than a regular credit card transaction.
This is the only article of many of which I have read that didn’t think CurrentC was dead on arrival – before arrival actually, as it won’t arrive until next year. It will save the consumer no money per transaction, take more steps, is far less secure and has virtually no liability protections.
Credit Card companies have spent decades creating ways to discover and discourage credit card cheats. This system dispenses with all that – Caveat Emptor I guess.
Merchants expect no blowback when consumers discover this all about dodging credit card fees, avoiding liability and invading privacy to track an individual’s every purchase for marketing purposes?
Letter To Iran
No, it's not for free. Trust me, you are paying for it in the form of increased prices.
Yes of course, but tell me with a straight face that wide CurrentC adoption means lowered prices from the retailer...
Didn't think so.
So why SHOULDN'T you prefer to get the benefits of using a CC if you are going to be paying the same exact amount for something anyway?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
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How about using neither system. I don't trust apple with my data, and I don't trust any data stored in an app on my phone, regardless of OS (but esp android).
I'd rather just have a card with chip+pin or good old fashioned cash.
I don't blame retailers for wanting to cut out CC fees, hel I would want to do that too. I don't blame them for not wanting to outfit hundreds of POS devices with NFC support, that is costly, when CurrentC can achieve similar with existing hardware.
I don't trust apple or google, period. Only a fool would trust either of them for anything.
Thing is, Apple Pay used existing standards for contactless EMV. Which is why every single terminal that accepted Apple Pay already accepted Google Wallet.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It is not just security which is an issue but privacy as well. Instead of minimal personal details which are not shared between retailers CurrentC will give them access to far more information about myself and my purchase patterns across multiple retailers. I much prefer a third party system since this at least limits the information each individual retailer has.
It's better than a debit card because it gives the merchants tons of information on you whereas a debit card doesn't.
Oh, you meant better for you, not them...
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
we were debating this on irc. all google and apple have to do is deny app store entry and everybody loses.
Apple Pay's interface with your CC account is proprietary. Its interface with the retailer is most definitely non-proprietary, even if the standards aren't particularly open.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Except that mom buying the baby formula (holding a baby in one arm) is pissed off at having to unlock her phone, find the app, scan a QR code and have the cashier scan a QR code so she goes somewhere where she can just wave her phone and put her thumb on the home button instead.
Oh, and she's living off credit card debt so she doesn't actually have any money in her checking account to use CurrentC anyway.
When the product is released, they won't require you provide SSN, drivers license number or heath data.
CurrentC has already been released in a test market up in Minnesota. They're already collecting all of this information. Here are the instructions they have that include the SSN and DL stuff. The health data is collected by default and must be opted-out of after you set up the app, but will collect anything it can get in the meantime. Likewise for location tracking, which cannot be disabled, since they use it to confirm that you are in the store you're trying to check out at.
FUD stands for fear, uncertainty, and doubt. The only one of those that applies here is fear, because there's nothing uncertain or doubtful about what they are already doing, and while you're claiming they won't keep those features in once it's released nationwide, you've provided no basis for that assertion. I'm more inclined to think that they'll continue doing as they've been doing, otherwise they already would have announced plans to cease doing so, simply because of the PR mess this is.
You don't think ApplePay or Google Wallet is collecting data?
Apple Pay is nothing standard. Who cares if it uses NFC or a QR code. You completely missed my point.
Apple Pay is completely a lock-in. If you want to use ApplePay you are locked into using Apple and Apple will be getting a cut from the credit companies, etc... There is nothing "standard" about Apple Pay.
Oh I forgot, I apple can do no wrong.