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Secret Policy Allows GCHQ Bulk Access To NSA Data
hazeii writes Though legal proceedings following the Snowden revelations, Liberty UK have succeeded in forcing GCHQ to reveal secret internal policies allowing Britain's intelligence services to receive unlimited bulk intelligence from the NSA and other foreign agencies and to keep this data on a massive searchable databases, all without a warrant. Apparently, British intelligence agencies can "trawl through foreign intelligence material without meaningful restrictions", and can keep copies of both content and metadata for up to two years. There is also mention of data obtained "through US corporate partnerships". According to Liberty, this raises serious doubts about oversight of the UK Intelligence and Security Committee and their reassurances that in every case where GCHQ sought information from the US, a warrant for interception signed by a minister was in place.
Eric King, Deputy Director of Privacy international, said: "We now know that data from any call, internet search, or website you visited over the past two years could be stored in GCHQ's database and analyzed at will, all without a warrant to collect it in the first place. It is outrageous that the Government thinks mass surveillance, justified by secret 'arrangements' that allow for vast and unrestrained receipt and analysis of foreign intelligence material is lawful. This is completely unacceptable, and makes clear how little transparency and accountability exists within the British intelligence community."
Eric King, Deputy Director of Privacy international, said: "We now know that data from any call, internet search, or website you visited over the past two years could be stored in GCHQ's database and analyzed at will, all without a warrant to collect it in the first place. It is outrageous that the Government thinks mass surveillance, justified by secret 'arrangements' that allow for vast and unrestrained receipt and analysis of foreign intelligence material is lawful. This is completely unacceptable, and makes clear how little transparency and accountability exists within the British intelligence community."
What would it take to produce a seamless, idiot-proof, and completely secure and encrypted Tor for every layperson to pick up and use? What would it take for it to have low impact on latency and bandwidth? And how could it be distributed in a extension-type way, like Adblock, where its presence is almost unnoticeable?
This technology is possible today and could turn the lights out on all of our data and web activity (at least on the ISP end). Where is it?
Be aware that the same "arrangement" likely exists for all members of the Five Eyes spying network, a.k.a. the ECHELON group, sometimes referred to as "AUSCANNZUKUS" for its members, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US. As long as any of these nations allows Orwellian surveillance, all five nations (and the rest of the world) will be in the same position.
Waddya gonna do about it, eh? Tell us again next week?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The the flip side of this is they spy on British people for the NSA, and each uses the other to circumvent those pesky privacy laws.
GCHQ, intercepts all of politicians and potential politicians, family, friends, employees, communications, hands that to the NSA who can trawl through it freely without restriction, and use that to shape who wins elections in the UK.
I noticed the latest leaks show that they have field work operatives, who work in agencies and break into systems. Someone in GCHQ pushed the idea of this, and that person is a traitor to the UK and potentially a spy.
None of the giant data centers being built by these agencies have been cancelled and no company has been brought up on charges for feeding NSA data from UK citizens.
We once wrote that these federal gov people can't not fuck up every day.
That when the time is right, just pointing this out will be 'shooting-fish-in-barrel' or some such statement. (Check yourself: facebook "Steven.Work", start about Christmas maybe.) .. NSA handing out my information so others in other countries may victimize me and everyone .. priceless!
.
So, case in point
There are actually several things you can do if you do not like the massive government spy-programs. The first thing you should do is to look into how you can pay nothing or as little as you can in taxes. Most countries have laws against not paying taxes but you are screwed anyway: Most "free" western countries have passed laws against financing terrorist organizations and criminal networks the last decade which means that it is illegal to pay taxes - so you are screwed anyway.
The second thing you can do is to make it as hard as possible for them to gather information. Use Tor, do not use Facebook or other In-q-tel/CIA products, use ixquick/duckducktogo/etc instead of Google and so on. Do not make it easy for them.
The third and probably most important thing is to talk to your friends and family about privacy and why it matters. Try to make them care. I know this is hard to do if the people in question watch television but do try. Western governments are out of control because a whole lot of people (almost all people above 50) love automatism and fascism and think people who think that they should not be forced to have a camera in their living-room by law are nuts.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
All Governments Lie
http://www.ifstone.org/macpherson.php
Educate your children. Teach them that ideals should inform their morality and ethical systems. But their governmental leaders should be required to prove their loyalty. Faith should be reserved for deities.
Teach them to encrypt their email, their hard drives and consider Google to be another iteration of, " the slime oozing out of your TV set."
Just saying, it's probably impossible to have privacy these days. Probably far better to democratize this so there is greater access to information instead of having a privileged class.
I thought we knew about this in the late 1980's. I guess we didn't care as much then with the cold war going on and no one was using email. Echelon has been around a long time
False dichotomy. People need to stop being lazy fucks and reign in on their governments. I've been protesting and trying to get people to stop voting for scumbags from The One Party since forever, but I can't do much alone.
If it's not the NSA/GCHQ it will be google/facebook/verizon. If you think you can stuff this genie in the bottle think again because it gets easier and cheaper every year.
No they don't just spy on countries for no purpose, they shape policies to be more favorable to the USA by shaping politics to be more favorable. We even have examples of shaping from Snowden, see is discussion about the CIA and the Swiss Banker, and he wasn't even involved in most of it.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
And this idea that being powerful is *not* having control of the Bundesstag or Parliament is the exact opposite of what the dictionary definition of power is. So of course they want leverage, but they also want to ensure the people who get to the top are the people who support their agenda, hence its worth spending 10 billion a year spying on them.
GCHQ on the other hand are tasked with the job of securing British communications from foreign spying, and for some reason, someone in there has risen to a position of power, where he thinks his job is to spy on Britain for a foreign power. It doesn't take a genius to see what's happened there. I'm sure a considerable amount of effort was expended to ensure he got into that position.
See if you were the Secret Service, and being investigated for hookers and blow in Columbia and the investigator was a little too vigorous, you too might simply leak a few details of his Florida hooker friend, so he gets replaced with someone more helpful.
Privacy is a basic human need. Opening it up to everyone would be even worse. Transparency in government is fine, but I'd rather not make everyone's information accessible to everyone.
If it's not the NSA/GCHQ it will be google/facebook/verizon.
I don't use any of that trash, and a lot of problems can be solved with reasonable privacy laws, which we're currently lacking.
If you think you can stuff this genie in the bottle think again because it gets easier and cheaper every year.
I think it's possible to greatly reduce the problem, yes. And it is, if people get off their asses and do something rather than just giving up (like what you're doing).
And if that conversation goes anything like it does here on Slashdot - the tinfoil hat nuttery is going to cause them to tune you out pretty quickly.
And your next two sentences just prove my point.
And if that conversation goes anything like it does here on Slashdot - the tinfoil hat nuttery is going to cause them to tune you out pretty quickly.
The thing that'll cause them to tune you out is their lack of principles and disrespect for the constitution and fundamental liberties.
And your next two sentences just prove my point.
Lots of people seem to be in favor of unconstitutional, rights-violating mass surveillance of our communications, so that's just a bit of an exaggeration. The mass surveillance is just less visible.
Can someone remind me why it is that we, the people who elect and pay the wages of the politicians and public servants who seek to destroy our right to privacy in this way, continue to allow such outrageous behavior to continue?
Has the concept of a democracy been replaced by one of serial fascism where voters are lulled into a false sense of empowerment by governments which collude with the *real* power-brokers to simply look after their own best interests and for who "voters" are synonymous with taxpayers -- a necessary evil required to keep the oily wheels of government turning?
They say we get the governments we deserve -- if that's true, we must be truly evil bastards!
The laws protecting citizen's rights in the Five Eyes nations are a sham. They just use the data collected by their partners to spy on their own citizens. They all do it, including Canada.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
In other words, you're a moron.
I was talking about the NSA, you ignorant fool. Your pedantry doesn't make you look intelligent.
Also, the part about fundamental liberties applies everywhere.
The Australian government is trying to pass laws that allow all police departments to collect this.
The first thing you should do is to look into how you can pay nothing or as little as you can in taxes.
The trouble is that the world isn't black and white. I don't like having massive government spy programs. However, I do like the existence of infrastructure. You know, good roads, schools, a health service, mass transportation and so on. You can't opt out of one without opting out of others unfortunately.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Yeah, right. If they are doing this, they are storing it indefinitely. Who is kidding whom?
you are under 40 and _dont_ use facebook or google ... suspicious in and of itself!
The first thing you should do is to look into how you can pay nothing or as little as you can in taxes.
You missed out the stage where you become an independently wealthy Criminal Mastermind with a secret lair hidden inside a Carribean volcano first. Twat.
a whole lot of people (almost all people above 50) love automatism and fascism
Fuck you, you ignorant piece of shit. If anything it's the younger generation who are quite happy to share everything on facebook and the rest of the "social media".
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Bullshit. Even in caves, privacy existed. Privacy of the mind. Being able to wander elsewhere to get privacy.
Privacy is a basic human need. Otherwise, people wouldn't seek it out. Privacy is also necessary to keep the government in check.
Stop judging everyone and then privacy wouldn't matter.
It would matter. Even absent government corruption (impossible) and judgement, you want to keep others from seeing you do embarrassing things, and you want to keep some things secret. Nothing wrong with that.
Americans have no rights under the documents and customs that form our constitution besides it is their job to spy on other countries. plus all the other platitudes sprouted on here when it is the Nsa doing it but I guess this time is different becauseit is being done to you!
What this effectively does is create a legal loophole through which the US intelligence agencies can request data from the GCHQ, on US citizens thereby bypassing surveiling citizens directly.
Participatory Governance : The only feasible option for a real democracy, where everyone really does have a say.
Faith should be reserved for deities.
You should also be teaching your children that "deities" don't exist.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Many people says that TOR is the only weapon we have left to keep ourselves out of the prying eyes of the spooks - but is it truly secured ?
If TOR is not totally secured then we will end up fooling ourselves thinking that we are under protection but in actuality our every.move is being monitored / recorded / analyzed by spooks
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
AND IN caves people used to get murdered and raped. Would you say protection from murder and rape arent human rights either?
tl;dr youre a fucking moron
Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016.
Try to live without some sort of privacy...just try... Want to changes jobs. for a better position, more money etc. Bam your boss instantly knows and fires your ass. Thinking about starting up your own business? Say a franchise? Bam your neighbor who already has one outbids you on your location... Have a kid with a chronic disease? All your potential bosses know this and refuse to hire you because they do not want to pay for your expensive medical insurance and missed work days. Without privacy, it would be even harder for people to better their situation and elevate themselves from poverty than it already is. And before you say the door swings both ways, remember those with $$$ can hire people to sift through the mountains of data to find relevant information, where as you will be too busy just meeting your basic needs. Nobody is asking for a handout.....people just want to start at the same line in this rat race, and privacy is a big factor in this.
Under Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... any message in and out of 5 Eye nations and friends can be reconciled with a start and destination ip.
If your still chatting, a back door or rootkit would get the rest.
Anything encrypted just attracts interest until decoded or a plaintext way in is found.
Then its the hops of friends, friends of friends and all networking usage.
The only way around such systems is the number station or correct use of the one time pad.
With data retention in other nations like Australia that ip is going back to a real user as discovered. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/... (Oct 30, 2014)
"Generally they do this in real-time, so the two years of holding this data probably doesn't make a lot of difference. That process of resolving an IP address to an account name is relevant, and it happens all the time."
The history of the UK RIPA, SIGINT Modernisation Programme efforts can be seen even after new changes.
Thats the details surround a message to, from, when where, sent from and connection (gps or a house).
Its getting very easy for gov and mil to put the internet back together over days or years.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Lots of people seem to be in favor of unconstitutional, rights-violating mass surveillance of our communications, so that's just a bit of an exaggeration. The mass surveillance is just less visible.
I think people aren't in favor of it so much as they'll only object in so far as it doesn't inconvenience them... ie: "I hate all the bullshit I have to go through at the airport but it's worth it if I can spend a week at an all inclusive in Mexico... I'm not doing to deny myself my semi-annual beach vacation!". "I know Facebook uses my data against me but it's the only way I can keep in touch with friends!" "I don't care if Facebook knows what I had for breakfast". "If you have something to hide ... "
That's the sort of bullshit that allows it to continue. The average person has no principles.
My wife and I have elected to take a personal stand against all this stuff by not participating but it's resulted in ridicule and mocking from family and friends... We've been accused of damaging our child because we haven't travelled out of country with him... etc ...
From embassy details in the 1920's and 1930's to HOW (Home Office Warrant), to ENIGMA in ww2, to early satellite ground stations, Skynet (satellite) efforts, every call in and out of Ireland, to what is now understood of the internet under US/UK collect it all.
Over years the UK likes to read about the world in plain text and in near real time.
When tasked staff ask, they are told its legal in a domestic context.
The tame press is told to talk of tracking Soviet/Russian movements. Thats sells the hardware sale and upgrade side.
The good news is more people seem to understand that their cheap mobile is a beacon, microphone, gps and that voiceprints will always find that new phone.
The press is also aware of what a laptop or phone can do when working on an interesting story.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
So what would you propose to do about it? Blame isn't going to get anywhere. Regardless of whether it's me being tinfoil hattish, or them being unprincipled, I'm not going to persuade them.
By the way Israel gets the data too.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Privacy is not a basic human need. We used to live in caves and huddle together for warmth. There's no privacy there.
Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter. We evolved for life in small tribes, and now live in huge societies. Group dynamics change as scale increases.
Stop judging everyone and then privacy wouldn't matter.
Indeed. In a perfect world where all people are angels, there would be rather less need for privacy.
Live free or die.
Stop using false dichotomies, or throw yourself off a cliff.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - Patton
Could you please let the king of Saudi Arabia know? Us Muslims have been trying to tell him that for decades, but he just doesn't seem to get it.
You should be recognising that people should be free to teach their children whatever they feel is right. Unless you'd prefer to go to war over the matter...
Its ok to review my website..
http://www.starcash88.com
Translated:
"However, I do like other people paying for things I can use. You know, good roads, schools, a health service, mass transportation and so on."
Your post makes you sound like an anarchist nut.
If you don't like what the government is doing, you must apply political force to making the government stop.
That means, first and foremost providing financial support to a lobby that has this cause as their primary purpose. Despite the popular preferences to this effect, in the real world money is what drives politics, and lobbies are how you can make your voice heard.
People are very eager to be political when all it requires is a vote now and then. People who are truly earnest in their desire for change will put their money where their mouth is. Your money is your political power, so use it.
Also, it doesn't hurt to write congressmen, participate in protests and other political events, etc. This sort of awareness-raising helps to demonstrate to congressional candidates how many votes they could win if they championed such a cause.
I think people aren't in favor of it so much as they'll only object in so far as it doesn't inconvenience them
I don't think that's true. A startling number of people are actively in favor of it, because they want safety over freedom. Certainly, there are also lots of apathetic people. When these two groups are combined, they're enormous.
"If you have something to hide ... "
That one is actually a statement in support of a police state, since it supposes (incorrectly, given history) that the government can do no wrong and make no mistakes. It's a statement made out of highly concentrated ignorance.
I think the king is well aware that he's violating what many in the world consider fundamental rights.
Those who do it for "convenience" I can understand. Almost all of us have "principles" we attempt to live within the bounds of. But those principles are breakable by anyone because we're human and nature isn't black and white, but fuzzy and indirect. In addition, my principles may not be yours. So I understand their decision at their current level of awareness, knowledge, whatever you want to call it. Whatever we are, we're a free country and people have to have the right to choose their own values.
The ones I don't understand are the ones who justify this in the name of "safety". Because history has shown that there is nothing more unsafe than a police state. And because you're human and nature isn't black and white, but fuzzy and indirect, what you get is a system for which everyone is guilty of something and you can no longer assume it's "if you have nothing to hide...".
I guess I think of it this way: Information is power. But power accretes unless periodically dispersed. The larger the accretion, the more energy it takes to disperse it. But we are human and the world is not black and white, but fuzzy and indirect, so when we apply this energy, we're often as likely to blow apart the system as we are to disperse it gently. So we fear stepping in when the accretions are small and the collateral damage easily contained (plus there's always that awful nagging free agency thing that has to be balanced), allowing power to concentrate until the stakes of dispersal seem too high and still we don't disperse it until the pressure builds up, the system blows apart and we start again from square one. It's fucking tedious and wasteful. Civilizations, countries, economies, organizations, all the little ways we group together follow this law: Power accretes unless dispersed. Period.
So, if you're making it easier for power to accrete, you are in one sense helping to bring about conflict and strife and destruction; contrawise, if you are dispersing energy to dissipate huge clots, then you're still bringing conflict and strife and destruction. If we all become wise enough to deal with these concentrations of power before they become too large, we will minimize conflict, strife, and destruction from this source and our lives will be happier. But we are all human and the world is not black and white, but fuzzy and indistinct, so all we all see different clots as too big. In the end, all you can do is laugh and do what we can to disperse the clots that look a bit too large to us. 'Cause that's what we do.
But a police state is about the hardest clot we've ever allowed to form. Hopefully ours is still small enough to dissolve without a lot of collateral damage, but those holding ever more tenuously to power really seem to like them some police state.
But the path towards education is pretty clear from this model... for those who trade safety for convenience, convince them that safety is more important. When you have them focused on the safety issue, then you can discuss short term vs. long term tradeoffs of relative safety.
That is all.
Well, uhh, yeah. The whole point is that that kind of thing is so expensive that no one person can pay for it alone.
Is this supposed to be controversial?