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How Apple Watch Is Really a Regression In Watchmaking

Nerval's Lobster writes Apple design chief Jony Ive has spent the past several weeks talking up how the Apple Watch is an evolution on many of the principles that guided the evolution of timepieces over the past several hundred years. But the need to recharge the device on a nightly basis, now confirmed by Apple CEO Tim Cook, is a throwback to ye olden days, when a lady or gentleman needed to keep winding her or his pocket-watch in order to keep it running. Watch batteries were supposed to bring "winding" to a decisive end, except for that subset of people who insist on carrying around a mechanical timepiece. But with Apple Watch's requirement that the user constantly monitor its energy, what's old is new again. Will millions of people really want to charge and fuss with their watch at least once a day?

63 of 415 comments (clear)

  1. How big a fuss is it, really? by daemonhunter · · Score: 5, Informative

    I take my watch off at the end of the day. I put it on in the morning. How big a difference is it to set it "on a charger on my nightstand", instead of just "on my nightstand?"

    Much ado about nothing.

    1. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by RevSpaminator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Years ago, when I wore watches, they had to be waterproof because I never took them off. One less thing to have to f' with in the morning.

    2. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by sexconker · · Score: 2

      I don't take my watch off at the end of the day. I only ever take it off to shower. Hell, I keep it on in the ocean.

    3. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a big enough fuss that people stopped using mechanical watches in the first place.

    4. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's a big enough fuss that people stopped using mechanical watches in the first place.

      People stopped using mechanical watches because other watches were better. Also many
      high quality mechanical watches self-wind as long as you wear them. Not wearing them
      is actually a problem. They actually sell special cases to wind mechanical watches when
      not in use: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/4-...

      If the apple watch is better (in any sense of the word) then it has a chance. The only problem
      I see with nightly charging is that (at least with smart phones), that usually means that
      heavy users have to charge midday which IS a pain.

    5. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Beriaru · · Score: 2
      I have a mechanical, automatic, waterproof watch.

      Other than adjust the time once a week, I don't have to take it off. I like my wearables to be old school.

    6. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by MouseR · · Score: 2

      On my 15th work anniversary at my current employer, I was awarded a Blue Angel edition Citizen Skyhawk watch. It's got an EcoDrive invisible solar cell under the watch face. Never hard to recharge it. Never lost a minute. Never worn a watch since I was 18 (I kept loosing them) but nowadays feel like I'm missing something if I dont have that watch when I go out.

      The Apple Watch thing is kinda dreadful in design but that's subjective.

      The real let down is the charging thing. I long ago ran out of power outlets around my bed and there's no way I'd have another dangling wire on the table.

      At the very least, it needs an inline charger to share the same iPhone wire. Serialized or parallel. Or a dual function charge pod.

      Since this thing required an iPhone, there's no point in requiring a different charger.

    7. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by neoritter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh there's a point to requiring a different charger. More money from you.

    8. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by eneville · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The watch should keep good time. If the battery requires a recharge, then should one forget and pull an all-nighter, does the timepiece become less accurate?

      I don't see why some of the functions could be sacrificed to provide longer battery. That'd suit most people I imagine. I welcome the day when all smart phones can go upwards of two weeks with normal use before needing a charge. The Moto G can go most of the week between charges and I use it a fair bit to ssh to my mail server to check mail, irc, web logs etc. So why should a simple watch require more frequent charging?

    9. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      I find it surprising that as you put it a "modern mechanical (non-chronometer)" watch would be off 5-10 seconds per day given that I own a 49 year old MIL-3818B wrist watch that I had cleaned and repaired a little while ago and from what I can tell it runs pretty consistently 3 seconds (+-1) fast a day when checked against a stratum 1 time source. Granted it is a very good 17 jewel watch (Benrus) but it is almost 50 years old and was my uncle's service watch while in Vietnam so it isn't like it wasn't exposed and probably abused during it's life. I would have thought that watch making would have improved with modern lower friction, lighter weight, and more thermally stable materials. Although given what I see for men's wrist watches it seems they are more jewelry and "look at me" than functional devices.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    10. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Beck_Neard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How much of a fuss? You can forget to charge. You could be somewhere where you have no charger. You're forced to carry a charger around when traveling.

      Of course none of these are atrocities, they make me think why I would want such a device, when my existing watch does exactly what I want it to do and does it reliably. Is checking emails really worth it? Those who complain about 'first world problems' would do well to think about their own first world problems, of which the need to have your emails/messages on the wrist is one. The ability to tell time, on the other hand, is very much a universal and important problem.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    11. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope. This iWatch is even inferior to mechanical watches.

      A good mechanical watch will wind itself. All you have to do is wear it regularly.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Cramer · · Score: 2

      They have, but those mechanical watches are very expensive, and are by definition a "chronometer". (designed to meet a certain precision) The crap you find in the checkout lane at Wal-mart will be cheap (sometime less than $3) and incredibly inaccurate.

      (Even the $7 digital crappers are super inaccurate. The one we strapped into the race car is over 30mins off now, after just a few months. It's sufficient to measure 2hrs, but then so's the gas tank.)

    13. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by rossdee · · Score: 2

      I haven't worn a (wrist) watch for a number of decades. Working in places that require frequent handwashing made it not so convenient. (meat industry, food industry, child care and now elder care) In that time I have used pocket watches, belt clip watches and one on a lanyard round my neck.
      Even if a watch is'waterp[roof' it may not be so resistant to hot soapy water, even if it can withstand 3 metre deep cold water.

    14. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Take it off and give the strap a sniff. Turns out, you do need to take it off from time to time.

      --
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    15. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Honest_John · · Score: 2

      If they are saying it will run all day on a charge, experience has shown me that after a year, it will only be running about 3/4 of a day before a charge is required.
      18 months after purchase, maybe 1/2 of a day before it needs a charge.
      I'm guessing this has the same battery replacement mentality as other apple portable consumer products which sucks.

    16. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by sjames · · Score: 2

      Winding wasn't that much fuss either but people wanted it gone. In part because forgetting to wind was also quite easy, as is forgetting to charge.

      Of course when traveling with a watch, winding doesn't require you to pack a winder.

    17. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by cnkurzke · · Score: 2

      I make it a habit of describing my watch as a chronometer. Can you tell me what makes a modern mechanical watch a non-chronometer? Just curious is all.

      A chronometer is a timekeeping device individually tested and certified by the official body "Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres" (COSC) Everything else is a watch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

    18. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 2

      Even if you have to wind it,.you can wind it while watching the 10pm news, or having that evening snack or at your computer...
      The apple watch you have to plug at wherever you put the charger.

    19. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by dublin · · Score: 2

      Lots of us have gone *back* to mechanical watches. I'm especially fond of the wonderful Seiko 5 automatic (self-winding) series. Seiko doesn't sell these through their usual US channels, but Amazon and others have them (and Amazon substitutes thier own warranty for Seiko's original - this is a pretty safe bet, as these things are extraordinarily well-built for the money). A good, basic Seiko 5 can be had for as little as ~$50. At that price, they're understandably popular with those who want to hack and modify their watches (faces, bands, upgraded lume, etc. - I'm planning on copper and brass-plating some of the guts of my next one to give it a dieselpunk feel, just because I can...)

      I have several much nicer watches, but my 5s are now my daily go-to watches. (I also like the clean, somewhat Bremont-like lines of the less expensive models. If I win the lottery, I'll buy a Bremont, but until then, I'm pretty enamored of the value of the 5s. Don't get me wrong - I actually appreciate the design and workmanship of high-quality watches like Omegas, Reversos, etc., but I also have to admire a fairly decent and rugged mechanism that's cheap enough that I don't get too upset when I inevitably ding it on an I-beam or engine block.

      While the 5s don't have the accuracy of a quartz watch, mine aren't far off, and they can be adjusted - don't even try until you've worn it (or at least run it) for several months solid: the springs and winder really do need to settle in. I've thought each new one needed adjusting, but almost all of them settle in to pretty much dead accurate after several months of running.

      Unless you need a navigation-grade chronometer, buy yourself one of these - they're cheap, fun, and the see-through back crystal alone is worth the price of the watch just for entertainment value, especially if you carry any mech-hacker genes.

      Is it a truly awesome watch? Not really. But it's a very good watch that's definitely awesome for the price, though. I own several great quartz watches, but these inexpensive automatics have earned a special place in my heart - as Jeremy Clarkson might say, "They've got Soul!"...

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    20. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by turp182 · · Score: 2

      As a child I had a Casio solar digital watch. Wore it for weeks. I liked the white ring it made on my arm during the summer. But after a month or so, running around sweating with the watch on, I took it off. A green ring of fungus had formed.

      I stopped wearing watches that day.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    21. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by Everything+Else+Was · · Score: 2

      Absolutely! A lot of things are remedied by alcohol.

      --
      My other account has mod points!
    22. Re: How big a fuss is it, really? by grahamsz · · Score: 2

      Will it still tell me when winter is coming?

    23. Re:How big a fuss is it, really? by CountBrass · · Score: 2

      A single cable and plug it into any USB charger, or even your computer.

      You didn't actually think much before posting your comment.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  2. I really don't understand smart watches... by Hammeh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Has there been some change over recent years that has made phones hard to get out of your pocket? Why would you want to do anything on such a tiny screen when a bigger one is within reach almost 100% of the time?

    1. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Running, for one. Not having to carry a phone is useful. Yes, there are hundreds of fitness trackers. Why not a multi-purpose tracker that also lets me reply to the wife?

      Getting updates without looking like a phone zombie is useful for some scenarios.

      There are reasons.

    2. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by sexconker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Running, for one. Not having to carry a phone is useful. Yes, there are hundreds of fitness trackers. Why not a multi-purpose tracker that also lets me reply to the wife?

      You still have to have the phone on you. The watch talks to the phone.

    3. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by pnutjam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Smart watches fail on look good and discrete. They look gaudy and are designed to catch others eyes so they know how cool you are.

    4. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That sounds like a design flaw in the specific smartwatch as opposed to a problem with the utility of such devices in general.

    5. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by itzly · · Score: 2

      You can run without a phone, you know. Many Ethiopians run without phones, and they're winning marathons.

    6. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by Triklyn · · Score: 2

      yeah, but running is boring, and even the ethiopians have lions.

    7. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Has there been some change over recent years that has made phones hard to get out of your pocket?

      Skinny jeans.

    8. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 2

      That's because there's a sandwich at the end of the race.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    9. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by David_Hart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      5) You can have class and style and look a hell of a lot better for a lot less money. You just won't look like a trendy fanboi.

      This.... Anyone attributing a smart watch from Apple, or any other company for that matter, to class or style just do not understand class or style. Some people easily confuse popularity or celebrity with class and style. It's been my experience that people who have true class and style do not wear gadgets or toys that can distract from enjoying people and the event, whether intimate or in public.

      Personally, as a geek I think that gadgets are cool but very few actually have class or style...

    10. Re:I really don't understand smart watches... by rsborg · · Score: 2

      Has there been some change over recent years that has made phones hard to get out of your pocket?

      Skinny jeans.

      And the phablet craze. Even Apple succumbed.

      --
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  3. Better question: by Scottingham · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Will millions give a shit about an overpriced nerdlinger status symbol? Stay tuned as Bennett whateverhisface submits his thesis.

    1. Re:Better question: by RevSpaminator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nerdlinger? Nothing nerdy about this device. A nerdy device would have an expansion port and, possibly, an open chip socket. The OS would be definitely be user-flashable. This is a wanna-be device all the way. Remember, real nerds play First Edition rules. :)

    2. Re:Better question: by idontgno · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Real nerds don't call it "First Edition."

      There was only one edition. Any assertion to the contrary will be vigorously ignored.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  4. Even Before Watch Sized Batteries.... by RevSpaminator · · Score: 2

    there were self winding watches.

    1. Re:Even Before Watch Sized Batteries.... by SpannerX · · Score: 2

      Hell, there still are. The Seiko 5 series, for example, is still very popular. My current daily wear is solar powered and self correcting (Citizen Skyhawk).

  5. Are Apple watches the only ones? by dablow · · Score: 2

    Do none of the other smart watches require to be charged? How is this a problem restricted to Apple?

    1. Re:Are Apple watches the only ones? by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do none of the other smart watches require to be charged?

      How is this a problem restricted to Apple?

      Because the Apple Watch is the only one that is expected to sell well. (Not because it's better, but because it's Apple.)

  6. Do you charge your phone every day? by mveloso · · Score: 5, Informative

    Back in the day, you didn't need to charge your phone every day. Now you do. Big deal?

    1. Re:Do you charge your phone every day? by nabsltd · · Score: 2

      Back in the day, you didn't need to charge your phone every day. Now you do.

      The LG G2 (the phone I have) was first released about 13 months ago. I charged mine today after over 72 hours on battery, which is typical.

      When my phone doesn't last at least two days, I figure out what app went nuts and sucked down all the battery, because that's the only reason it doesn't last that long. Newer phones (like the LG G3, the Samsung S5, and the HTC One M8) all have better battery-saving algorithms than my phone.

      Battery life for phones is getting better again, after 4-5 years of steep decline.

  7. Bleh by Anrego · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bleh

    This "article" could have just been jammed in the summary, hell Bennett writes larger blog posts in the summary all the time! I can also honestly say I thought to myself "well this is really lame" before noticing it was a shameless dice self post.

    I hate apple and have no interest in a "smart watch", but having to charge the damn thing all the time is a well understood problem, something which is weighed as a con vs whatever pros people find in these things. If I had any interest in the features, I doubt this would be a show stopper. It just becomes a slight addition to the list of things I do before going to bed. If value of that effort exceeds the annoyance of that effort, then it's worth it?

    This article doesn’t do anything besides point out the issue and make a fairly obvious correlation (something the author probably felt was way more clever than it actually was)?

    1. Re:Bleh by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Informative

      This "article" could have just been jammed in the summary

      Nerval = Dicevertisment

      That says it all.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Bleh by Anrego · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow, I assumed you meant like he suspiciously makes a lot of dice related posts, but it's not even subtle.

      Identified as "works for slashdot" and entire history seems to be nothing but dice.com posts. It's like this guys job is literally to post dice shit to slashdot all day.

    3. Re:Bleh by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure that is Nerval's Lobster's job. I really wish Slashdot would at least mention that the link is to a news site run by their parent company. I mean, they always used to when linking to things on SourceForge or ThinkGeek.

      Sure, once you've been around here long enough, you'll learn that Nerval's Lobster == Dice news story and Bennett Haselton == verbal diarrhea, but it would be nice if the editors would at least pretend at being professional.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  8. Don't wear a watch... by itzly · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wearing a watch in itself is already "is a throwback to ye olden days". I haven't worn a watch in decades, and I see a lot of people without them. When I need to see the time, I can glance at the corner of the computer screen, or check my phone.

  9. Crappy Product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No one WANTS to charge their freakin' watch every day. But they will. The hordes will buy it because it is Apple. It will be an inconvenient product, but its trendiness and Apple logo will overcome all common sense and logical thought.

  10. just like cell phones by j2.718ff · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My old Nokia could go a week between charges. Yet I have to recharge my Android phone daily. Yup, it's a horrible regression in battery life. And in exchange, all I got are a ton of features that I use all the time. Oh, and my old rotary phone didn't require charging ever. Heck, it didn't even need to be connected to my household power.

    Smart watches are no different. They have their pros and their cons.

  11. Landline vs cell phone once again by u19925 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You don't need to charge your landline phone (except wireless) but you pretty much need to charge your cell phone daily or at least weekly. How many people would like to go back to landline? Apple watch has similar physical dimensions as regular watch and they both show times. Similarities end there. The apple watch can do many more things that regular watch cannot and it needs battery for those functions. If you are happy with what your watch does, ignore apple watch (I am going to do that), but many folks may like to have one.

  12. Confirms that Apple's strategy is correct by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mechanical watches were so ridiculously convenient and useful that people would gladly wind their watches once a day. Similarly, if the Apple Watch proves convenient and useful, people will gladly charge it once a day.

    Of course, the most myopic aspect of these articles is the unwritten presumption that today's state of the art will never improve. Yes, Apple Watch will need to be charged once a day for the next couple of years, but charge times are going to improve tremendously as Moore's Law continues to plug along. The Apple Watch will improve in a way analogous to the way mechanical and later quartz watches improved far beyond the limitations of the original pocket watches and wristwatches.

  13. cell phones and notepads by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Analogously, cell phones are a throwback to old crank phones because you have to charge them before you use them. We used to have perfectly good powered land lines. Cell phones with their short battery lives and constant attention are for eclectic hobbyists I'm sure.

    And don't get me started about notepads when a paper and pencil pad can store your information for a century or more with no format changes impairing data retreival. current ipads are the equivalent of undecipherable babelonian cuniform clay tablets. Ludicrous anyone would want to go back to such fragile formats for information storage

    --
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    1. Re:cell phones and notepads by bondsbw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would people complain as much if Apple called it the Apple WristComputerWithTouchScreenAndBluetoothSpeakerAndHealthMonitoring?

      I mean, that's what it is. But Apple's marketing decided on a somewhat better name.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    2. Re:cell phones and notepads by Cramer · · Score: 2

      The reason for turning the crank was not to "charge them", but to generate the ring voltage -- to make a light bulb illuminate at the switch board where the operator is sitting.

    3. Re:cell phones and notepads by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Early mobile phones would stay charged for a week or two, easily. Today the "smart" phones need more frequent charging even if you're not using them that much.

    4. Re:cell phones and notepads by CountBrass · · Score: 2

      Err no. Early mobile 'phones had poor battery life and were like bricks: I had one.

      That didn't improve until the generation of 'phones that included the Nokia 2110. But those were not 'early mobile phones' by any stretch.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  14. Re:The Answer Is... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2

    The same thing can be said for computers and smart phones.

    What, I've got to keep my computer plugged into the wall!? WHAT A HORRIBLE PRODUCT!

    I think that the devil is really in the details and we're sadly lacking any details. WatchKit SDK is coming out very very soon so. I'm really hoping that works out well.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  15. The airplane is a regression in train making by Old97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a train, the airplane is pitiful. It can't haul as much freight or as many passengers. It costs more. It needs to land and be refueled more frequently. And who needs an airplane anyway? Trains are safer as you are less likely to die in an accident. Trains may not be as fast, but what's the hurry? I like sitting in the car and seeing the country go by at ground level. You can't see a damn thing from an airplane and what you do see looks like little toys. Yep, only an idiot would build or buy an airplane because I like trains.

    --
    Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
  16. give me a break by shadowrat · · Score: 2

    Honestly, nobody wears watches. Most of society has given them up in favor of our pocket screens. Those already need daily recharging. It's not like the apple watch is even competing with a standard wristwatch. Obviously watches have far better power consumption than our phones, but we all eschewed watches for phones a decade ago.

    Compare the watch's running time to a pebble or other competing device, not something that isn't even the same. I see plenty of articles that bash the new iphone for poor battery life, but none of those articles bitches that landline phones never needed charging and we've taken this huge step back. They justifiably compare it to some android phone that lasts 2x as long (but nowhere near as long as a landline phone)

    There is a litany of other flaws that can be pointed out if you really want to take the watch down.

  17. Re:I don't know about millions of people by Krojack · · Score: 2

    It's like the Moto 360. It's wireless charging as long as you just set it in it's cradle. No plugging or snapping on adapters. Only problem, other smart watches can last 3+ days between charges. My Gear 2 can easily go 5 days.

  18. Apple flops by sjbe · · Score: 2

    The hordes will buy it because it is Apple.

    Apple has had plenty of flops over the years. Newton, Lisa, Apple III, Pippin, Macintosh TV, QuickTake, the 20th Anniversary Mac, the ROKR E1 phone, Ping, and more besides.

    Apple sells a lot of stuff because they normally make pretty good products but people don't buy shit solely because it has an Apple logo on it.