A Smart Electric Bike: Taking the Copenhagen Wheel Out For a Spin

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A Smart Electric Bike: Taking the Copenhagen Wheel Out For a Spin

Posted by timothy on Saturday November 1, 2014 @10:07AM from the would-like-one-of-these-immediately dept.

New submitter mlamonica writes Bikes are a great way to get around the city. But what if it's just too hilly or far to commute by bike? That's where Superpedestrian wants to come in. With a license from MIT's Senseable City Lab, they're commercializing the Copenhagen Wheel, a bike wheel replacement that gives riders electric assist, and through 12 embedded sensors, lots of information on a smart phone app. I took the bike for a ride at the Cambridge office and offer this review.

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too expensive by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 10:14 · Score: 1

I can buy a kit on eBay for $250.
1. Re:too expensive by jma05 · 2014-11-01 13:45 · Score: 2
  
  Indeed. I wonder how much the Bill of Materials is. The innovation premium appears to be too high on this one.
  Cars are quite reasonably priced in US. Why are motorcycles so expensive though? (lack of a mass market making them special interest products?) For the price of an $800 electric wheel, one can buy an entire motorcycle from a recognized brand in Asia (starting from $500), where cars cost about the same as in US.
2. Re:too expensive by MickLinux · 2014-11-01 14:08 · Score: 2
  
  I'm pretty sure this is patented. Currie Tech came out with such a wheel, and then quickly discontinued all mention of it. Since the focus of Currie Tech seems to be Chinese imports, I suspect that their wheel is manufactured and sold in China, where such issues as IP ownership are less formidable than here.
  That said, I'm not sure I'd want such a wheel, because I'd be concerned about loss of control. Every so often with my $450 currie tech bike, the pedal assist kicks in where it is unwanted, like at a light, waiting for cross traffic to end. I have a control on it: my hand brake cutout. However, I don't know that I'd have any limitation on misbehavior by a Copenhagen wheel.
  
  --
  Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
3. Re: too expensive by jhoger · 2014-11-01 16:49 · Score: 1
  
  How exactly is illegality which no one will ever bother to detect or check a problem? Besides not all of the kits allow going over 20 mph which I believe is the typical limit.
4. Re:too expensive by cduffy · 2014-11-02 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  The United States market doesn't fall into that "most places on Earth" -- laws are state-by-state, but most follow CSPC guidelines, which puts the limit at 1hp (750W), or 20mph, and has no pedal-assist requirement.
5. Re:too expensive by FreedomFirstThenPeac · 2014-11-03 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  Sheeze. I bet you thought that electric typewriters were for lazy bums too!
  
  --
  "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
what's the point? by silfen · 2014-11-01 10:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't see the point of all this electronics or intelligence in a bicycle. If anything, the location tracking means that bicycles now also are starting to invade my privacy.
For regular distances, a purely mechanical bike is simple, robust, and inexpensive. For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this, and the additional design freedom from designing bike and assist together likely results in a better and cheaper bike.
1. Re:what's the point? by SensitiveMale · 2014-11-01 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see the point of all this electronics or intelligence in a bicycle. If anything, the location tracking means that bicycles now also are starting to invade my privacy.
  Or my bivacy, if you know what I mean.
2. Re:what's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 10:58 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Electric bikes are not just for long distances, but also for hilly areas or strong winds.
  Under those circumstances, unless 1) you're young and strong and 2) can ride to work in lycra, EVs are the solution.
  Incidently, in the Netherlands and its strong winds, 20% of new bikes are EVs.
  Peak oil will take of this.
3. Re:what's the point? by Trepidity · 2014-11-01 11:00 · Score: 3
  
  If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
4. Re:what's the point? by Tumbleweed · 2014-11-01 11:14 · Score: 2
  
  If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
  Yeah, what he said. Also, I really wish I could eat Buffalo wings outside of Buffalo.
5. Re: what's the point? by dfghjk · 2014-11-01 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  We need electronic sensors in order to avoid having to wear "skintight spandex" when we bicycle commute?
6. Re:what's the point? by evilad · 2014-11-01 13:30 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  A pedal-assist system (one that only helps, but will never do all the work), can be just the boost that some people need to start exercising.
  The gentleman that I bought my used electric-assist bike from was so weak that he was unable to cycle any reasonable distance without assistance. After using the assisted bike (with a custom rack for his oxygen tank!) for a year and a half, he decided to switch to a regular bicycle.
7. Re:what's the point? by silfen · 2014-11-01 13:37 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Electric bikes are not just for long distances, but also for hilly areas or strong winds.
  Which part of "For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this" did you not understand?
  Electric bikes are useful (I have one). Retrofits of mechanical bikes by stuffing tons of electronics into the rear wheel seem like a lousy compromise.
8. Re: what's the point? by jhoger · 2014-11-01 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  Where I live electric bikes are for old drunks with suspended license because of dui conviction.
9. Re:what's the point? by drinkypoo · 2014-11-01 22:35 · Score: 1
  
  For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this,
  Why?
  
  and the additional design freedom from designing bike and assist together likely results in a better and cheaper bike.
  Why?
  You simply make bald assertions and then do not support them. How did you get up-modded for this? I must know your secret.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
10. Re:what's the point? by pherthyl · 2014-11-02 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  Electric bikes tend to be lousy bikes. Much better to convert a bike, but I'd go for a traditional system not the Copenhagen wheel full of proprietary crap.
11. Re:what's the point? by drinkypoo · 2014-11-02 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  All of this stuff is irrelevant to most users, unless it's a total lemon. Most users don't want to go that far on a bike.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
12. Re:what's the point? by mjwalshe · 2014-11-02 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  and sort of ignores the fact that there are you know derailleur gears to cope with hills
13. Re:what's the point? by cduffy · 2014-11-02 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  and sort of ignores the fact that there are you know derailleur gears to cope with hills
  ...which works, but can be incompatible with getting where you're going in a reasonable amount of time, if there's significant distance between points A and B.
  Switching from a car to an electric bike did my health a huge amount of good commuting from Austin to Round Rock -- a 30-minute drive was a 50 minute assisted bike ride (acceptable), or a 90 minute unassisted bike ride each way (not always acceptable). Getting that 100 minutes of pedaling in each day (both directions) improved my health enough that in six months I was able to do the same commute on an unassisted bike on those days when I had three hours to spare. I don't see how that's anything but win.
  As an aside -- my strongly preferred variety of e-bike is mid-drive, with the motor's power going through the chain, so you're still shifting. A really well-designed system such as that from Optibike is tuned such that the motor is only in its optimal efficiency band if you're pedalling alongside it -- one gets more assistance from an Opti if maintaining a constant 80-100rpm cadence, which is a good place to be in from a cardio perspective regardless.
14. Re:what's the point? by cduffy · 2014-11-02 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Electric bikes tend to be lousy bikes.
  The cheap ones, yes. If you're not going for cheap, then you get in-frame batteries and bottom-bracket motors -- and your stock components are made by named, high-end manufacturers.
  Still a markup, sure, but that markup paid for Optibike to fly one of their engineers in to Austin to train a local bike shop on replacing their electrical components when mine broke, so I'm not much complaining. ;)
15. Re:what's the point? by cduffy · 2014-11-02 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Most users don't want to go that far on a bike.
  Really? Where I'm from, "range anxiety" is a thing -- people buying an electric vehicle don't want to run out of power off in the middle of nowhere.
  I was an Optibike owner back in the day, and active on their mailing list -- one of the questions we got most often from folks deciding on whether or not to buy was how realistic the range numbers were (something like 47 miles in economy mode on the internal battery alone, and 105 with the external touring battery). It's a very real concern to folks who haven't yet bought in and realized how little of that range they'll habitually use. :)
16. Re:what's the point? by mjwalshe · 2014-11-02 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  so what is the difference between an electric bike than say a nice vespa or a commuter scooter
17. Re:what's the point? by Reziac · 2014-11-02 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  Remember the ones that had little gasoline engines rather than electric? They'd use a lawn-mower engine. Don't know how well they worked but you can still get the conversion kits.
  http://www.bicycle-power.com/d...
  
  --
  ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
18. Re:what's the point? by Reziac · 2014-11-02 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  That may be, but there are always folks who want to build something with their own hands. Considering how many different kits are available, there must be plenty of demand, and they must work well enough to stay in business against the integrated solutions.
  And total price may be a factor, especially if a person already owns the two major parts.
  
  --
  ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
19. Re:what's the point? by cduffy · 2014-11-02 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  Did you actually read my post at all? You're not getting any exercise on a Vespa.
  On an Opti, you get where you're going, and you're maintaining an 80-100rpm cadence getting there.
20. Re:what's the point? by RivenAleem · 2014-11-02 21:05 · Score: 1
  
  If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
  What you did there, I see it.
21. Re:what's the point? by mjwalshe · 2014-11-02 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  I did and if you have such a long commute then maybe cycling with or with out a boost from electric is not the best way of doing that commute - BTW I used to do 20 miles a day on a MTB as part of my commute.
22. Re:what's the point? by cduffy · 2014-11-03 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  I owned a little Piaggio MP3 at the time -- that was my drive vehicle if for some reason I couldn't bike -- and yup, it's a great option... but, well, there's something to be said for arriving at work having just finished a nice workout as opposed to having just spent time breathing fumes on I-35. Did wonders for my stress level, and no better way to get exercise than to have it be over the course of accomplishing something you were going to do (and spend time and money on) anyhow.
23. Re:what's the point? by 4444444 · 2014-11-07 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  I'm waiting for the San Fransisco wheel
  
  --
  
  http://Lenny.com
  4 great justice!
rotating mass by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 10:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm not sure the wheel is the best place for the battery! TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton, and it's rotating mass. I'd rather have a hub motor but have a small battery pack affixed elsewhere, maybe in a bottle cage, where it doesn't have to rotate.
Also the topping out at 20 MPH is a little low. It would surely be useful in conditions of headwinds or uphills, where you cannot ride very fast, so that's nice. But for normal cruising, 20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who isn't elderly. I can just do it on flat ground with no winds, and I'm 52. Younger riders have no problems at all. I understand it's a regulatory issue but it would be nice if the top speed could be upped just a little, maybe to 25 mph. It's far harder to ride 25 mph on a bike - I cannot do it for more than a minute unless assisted by hills or wind. Power demand is not linear with speed. It would be nice to have that power difference made up by a motor.
1. Re:rotating mass by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure the wheel is the best place for the battery! TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton
  I don't believe 13 lbs is a ton. Not even a metric ton.
2. Re:rotating mass by dfghjk · 2014-11-01 11:43 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  "I'd rather have a hub motor but have a small battery pack affixed elsewhere, maybe in a bottle cage, where it doesn't have to rotate."
  It's not as big a penalty as you think. The weight is nearer the center of the wheel. This design has real packaging advantages over what you describe. It's also not new.
  "20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who isn't elderly."
  20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who is elderly.
  Electric assist isn't needed for fit riders and bumping the speed to 25 MPH wouldn't make it better for its purpose. Bike commuters are not well served by devices designed to increase their riding speeds, they are well served by devices that expand the range for which cycling is practical. When commuting the goal isn't to ride as fast as you can, it is to arrive safely while interacting appropriately with traffic and hopefully not flat constantly while doing so.
  I am also 52 years old and I have no problem sustaining 20 MPH in the flats. On my 9 mile one way commute, it is simply not possible for me to complete the ride in less than 30 minutes without a big tailwind. I do not need electric assist at my distances but others might. I could consider longer distances with assist, though, and my average speeds would improve even with the 20 MPH limitation. I have no desire to ride at high speeds on the shoulders with cars coming at me oblivious to my existence. I am forced to take emergency measures once every couple hundred miles typically. Safety is a far bigger issue than top speed.
3. Re:rotating mass by CastrTroy · 2014-11-01 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that many places have laws that prevent electric bikes from going too fast. I'm in Ontario, and it's 32 km/h (20 mph) here. In some places in Europe and Australia it's 28km/h. I agree that it's a little slow, but you have to set the limit somewhere. Set it too high and you might have some problems. Some cheap e-bikes are quite heavy and could cause damage if they were going 50 km/h. Since bikes don't require insurance, there could be a few problems if they are travelling too fast.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
4. Re:rotating mass by quenda · 2014-11-01 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton,
  
  Did you work on the Mars Climate Orbiter?
  
  and it's rotating mass.
  
  Barely. The wheel only rotates twice a second, and they are keeping the weight close to the hub. The rotational energy will be small, and recovered by regenerative braking or coasting anyway. It really does not matter.
  Unsprung mass is not much of an issue on a road bike either. Total mass is what counts, and this wheel _will_ make the bike more difficult to carry, e.g up stairs.
  
  Also the topping out at 20 MPH is a little low.
  
  Really? That is faster than the average speed of cars in major cities. (Or minor cities at commuting hours.) And most cyclists would need a _very_ good tail-wind to maintain that speed on the flat on a regular bike.
  There are good reasons to limit the speed: (aside from local regulations)
  - safety (bike and rider's clothing are not designed for high-speed spills),
  - battery life - power is proportional to the cube of velocity
  - motor efficiency - designing a motor for higher speed will make it less efficient when it is really needed - hills and headwinds. Remember the motor has only one gear.
  
  but it would be nice if the top speed could be upped just a little, maybe to 25 mph.
  
  You are talking about an electric motorbike or moped, not a power-assisted bike. They do exist.
5. Re:rotating mass by knightghost · 2014-11-01 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  You will after riding with it for miles. Relativity ya know.
6. Re:rotating mass by spire3661 · 2014-11-01 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  20 MPH is to keep it an unlicensed vehicle. Go above that and now you are a moped.
  
  --
  Good-bye
7. Re:rotating mass by radl33t · 2014-11-02 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  wind resistance goes ^2 with speed, virtually anyone can go 15. at 18 you find out who is fit, at 20 you find out who is really in shape, and beyond 22 you find out who is aerodynamic or in a peleton. HEHE
8. Re:rotating mass by radl33t · 2014-11-02 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who is elderly. This is delusional, over the 70,000+ miles I've ridden, both for commuting and recreation I never seen an old guy that wasn't obviously super into cycling moving that fast. I've been only able to do it for a few summers in my life. Sustaining 20mph (~30min), alone, on a non super bike is elite cycling. It requires 250-300W and that's with with an aggressive posture. It is in the range of power expenditure for normal (non stage competition) tour de france cycling....
  
  If you aren't this guy, its time to check your wheel size on your speedo, check your slope, or check your wind speed.
9. Re:rotating mass by hawkinspeter · 2014-11-02 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  Sustaining 20mph isn't that hard. It takes a certain amount of fitness, but I'm 45 and can manage it on the flat easily enough as long as there isn't a headwind. Over a normal route with some hills, I typically maintain an average of around 17mph for over an hour, but I know amateurs who are way quicker than I am. I do a lot of cycling, but I'm certainly no "elite" racing cyclist.
  
  --
  You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
10. Re:rotating mass by advocate_one · 2014-11-02 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  I want to be able to take the battery OFF the bike to recharge it...
  The bike remains locked up down in the shed to a ground anchor, not dripping all over the floor up in my third floor flat which by the way only has stairs, no lift...
  Also means I can take the battery inside to recharge when at work.
  electric assist means I can do my 7 mile commute without getting sweaty... takes the hills out and kills the headwinds... no lycra... ordinary street clothes and shoes
  
  --
  Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The Real Problem by cinnamon+colbert · 2014-11-01 10:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

here in Boston, where I live
Narrow twisty roads, and when the snowbank gets high, narrower roads
non highway routes are often circuitous
Dark at 5PM much of the year (and add in the snowy, narrow twisty roads...)
Potholes
Did I mention potholes ?
Rain snow sleet
weather down to teens to single digits many days of the year
lack of decent bike racks (some day, some smart person will write a n y times op ed about how bad bike racks are)
no showers, or cruddy showers
not so good when you have to go pick up your kid at school, or dance recital, or...
maybe inside Cambridge or Boston itself, a bike might work
For much of MA, no so good
the problem is NOT that we need easier to use bikes
the problem is that we have a car suburban orientation; change tax laws and zoning so people are packed into citys, and bikes will take care of themselves
1. Re:The Real Problem by Tumbleweed · 2014-11-01 11:15 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  here in Boston, where I live
  Good thing these can be used outside of Boston, eh? How do you like DEM apples?
2. Re:The Real Problem by silfen · 2014-11-01 13:41 · Score: 2
  
  the problem is that we have a car suburban orientation; change tax laws and zoning so people are packed into citys, and bikes will take care of themselves
  So you're saying that because you are unhappy with where and how you live and because you want to ride or not ride bicycles, the entire country should be stuffed into dirty, crowded cities? I don't think so. Not only is that an idiotic and selfish demand, any politician who tried would be kicked out of office instantly.
  People like cars and suburbia. Get used to it. Eventually, you may even join the club, you know, if you should marry, have kids, get a dog, and have some hobbies.
3. Re:The Real Problem by radl33t · 2014-11-02 01:59 · Score: 2
  
  People like cars and suburbia. Get used to it. Eventually, you may even join the club, you know, if you should marry, have kids, get a dog, and have some hobbies.
  
  This is changing. It is inevitable that suburbia as you know it will die. I hope you get used to this idea before it affects you. Maybe you'll join the club and have all these things, as I do, at lower cost, higher quality of life, and with less negative impact, without the unsustainable highly subsidized mess of suburbia.
4. Re:The Real Problem by silfen · 2014-11-02 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  I've lived in cities for many years, both in Europe and in the US. They serve different purposes and different populations. Cities are great for singles looking for sex and entertainment, and that's why they have grown. Cities are also highly subsidized, have numerous quality of life problems, and are pretty inefficient. Believe me: neither suburbs nor cities are going away.
5. Re:The Real Problem by hey! · 2014-11-02 05:44 · Score: 2
  
  I bike commuted for many years in Boston, 6-10 miles each way depending on the job and where I was living. It is hardly the cycling hell-on-Earth the poster depicts. In my experience it's practical to bike commute 75% of the time, 95% if you have showers at work. You just need the right clothing, equipment and attitude.
  The electric wheel might help some commuter choose routes that would otherwise be impractical, but it's not not going revolutionize bike commuting because it's not essential. What is essential is a can-do attitude. If you're the kind of person who throws his hands up in defeat because he imagines every single challenge as insurmountable, this is not for you.
  I have encountered almost every obstacle listed by the poster above, and they were no big deal.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
6. Re:The Real Problem by hey! · 2014-11-02 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  did you ever hear the phrase, YMMV ?
  like, maybe not everyone is as dedicate or strong as you ?
  To assert that narrow, twisty, snow covered roads, at night, are not a problem is just mind boggling; you must be a conservative republican who believes in the gold standard, and doesn't know that the individual mandate was a heritage foundation idea
  Or... I could just be a person who actually tried it and found out it wasn't such a big deal. I'm not saying everyone has to do it. I'm saying don't be dissuaded by the naysayers who've never tried it.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
7. Re:The Real Problem by Toshito · 2014-11-03 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  higher quality of life??? in the city???
  
  --
  Try it! Library of Babel
8. Re:The Real Problem by radl33t · 2014-11-03 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  No belief necessary. There is data. Suburbs do not have the population density to support modern infrastructure without growth. You might think of it as a Ponzi scheme.
9. Re:The Real Problem by radl33t · 2014-11-03 12:47 · Score: 1
  
  20% park land in 200 parks doesn't hurt. Not needing a car for 95% of travel is also wonderful. While suburbians commute into the city, I read 50 books a year. While suburbians enjoy their 1 acre lots, I enjoy my 0.07 acre and I am in walking distance to a thousand acres of city parkland, a national park stretching thousands of miles along the river, or one of several national wild life refuges, public lakes and creeks. While suburbians buy houses for 250K I spend less than half. I have closer and cheaper access to more shopping more eating more culture. I am closer to the airport. I am closer to several major hospitals. I am closer to major entertainment venues. I am the same distance to state and federal parks. My property taxes are 50% lower. The air and water quality is exactly the same. Crime is the same. The schools are the same, on average.
  
  short answer: yes
10. Re:The Real Problem by silfen · 2014-11-03 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Suburbs do not have the population density to support modern infrastructure without growth.
  Oh, this is interesting. What "modern infrastructure" do you think I'm missing?
11. Re:The Real Problem by radl33t · 2014-11-05 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  Where did I imply that you or any other suburbanite is missing anything?
  
  Civil services cost money. Maintenance costs money. 40 - 70% of municipal budgets and hence municipal fees and taxes depend strongly on population density (think water, sewer, roads). This is compounded often by terrible city planning choices, which occur more frequently in the suburbs due to less expertise and oversight. It is also compounded by harebrained state and federal assistance to shiny public works projects that muni budgets are ill equipped to maintain.
  
  Continued growth, increases in local taxes, the slow and dereliction of basic maintenance, and disproportionate levels of assistance from state and federal governments are all important factors in this relationship that accentuate or mask the problem. All else equal municipal budgets correlated to population density must be spread across 4 - 12, sometimes 15-20 times less people. It will reach steady state by adding people or taxes. Are you going to pay 400% higher taxes for the suburb? What about 1200% ?,One acre lots = 6000%. Probably not, you will just accept the wave of multi-family developments that are presently sweeping out from the cities precisely because suburbs will otherwise die.
12. Re:The Real Problem by silfen · 2014-11-05 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  Where did I imply that you or any other suburbanite is missing anything?
  Right here:
  
  There is data. Suburbs do not have the population density to support modern infrastructure without growth.
  So, which "modern infrastructure" do you think I'm missing?
  
  All else equal municipal budgets correlated to population density must be spread across 4 - 12, sometimes 15-20 times less people.
  Nice theory, but that's not budget reality. City budgets overwhelmingly go for debt service, pensions, schools, police, and welfare. All things being equal, those are independent of population density, but in reality, they actually get a lot cheaper in the suburbs. Of the actual infrastructure spending (probably 5-10% of the budget), most of it is for stuff that suburbs just don't need: public transit, rail, etc.
  The essential infrastructure, roads, gas, electric, water, sewer, and Internet, are usually paid for via special assessments, developers, and users. That kind of infrastructure is also dirt cheap, in particular in the suburbs. For example, annual maintenance for a mile of road is a couple of hundred dollars; even at very low densities, that's maybe $10-20 per home on that stretch of road.
  
  Are you going to pay 400% higher taxes for the suburb? What about 1200% ?,One acre lots = 6000%.
  In fact, I probably pay about 10% of the taxes I would pay in a city, for a better quality of life and better public services.
Located in the wheel by Firethorn · 2014-11-01 10:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

First, don't think of the copenhagen wheel as an electric bike. Think of it as a wheel - that can be used to retrofit nearly any compatible bike. It's wireless capabilities means that you don't even need a controller on the bike wired to it.
As for the weight, it's at least around the axle, not the rim, so that reduces the effects. One can certainly argue about the max speed, but keep in mind that the non-linear power increases would also rapidly increase the cost and weight of the batteries and motor.

--
I don't read AC A human right
bikes can't handle the truth by turkeydance · 2014-11-01 10:38 · Score: 1, Interesting

they are not multi-taskers. one person/one way/ ok. any more than that is a fail. electric-assist will not get my dog to the vet, or other multi-passenger duties. bike lanes or other gov-assisted options spend $/time on the 1% who bike.
1. Re:bikes can't handle the truth by dfghjk · 2014-11-01 11:52 · Score: 1
  
  "bike lanes or other gov-assisted options spend $/time on the 1% who bike."
  Are car lanes a "government assisted option" for driving?
  Spending money on "the 1% who bike" provides benefits for all of society. You might want to think about someone other than yourself.
2. Re:bikes can't handle the truth by silfen · 2014-11-01 13:46 · Score: 2
  
  Bicycle lanes/paths are cheap, and probably about 10-20% of the population bike pretty regularly. For kids and teenagers, it's one of the primary modes of transportation.
  Given that government has a monopoly on local transportation, it is reasonable to demand that government cater to common needs like bicycling.
3. Re:bikes can't handle the truth by Blaskowicz · 2014-11-02 00:31 · Score: 1
  
  A small trailer will take your dog or a young kid. would be interesting to try that in combination with an electric-assist bike. So yes it solves the dog.
4. Re:bikes can't handle the truth by radl33t · 2014-11-02 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  I walk my dog to the vet because I live in a city where such opportunities exist. I bike together with others because they are like me. I have a rear rack that can haul most things, including 6-10 days of groceries. I have a trailer that I can haul general construction tools, a 90lb dog, or small children. I see half a dozen parents bike their kids to daycare down the street, every morning for ~7+ months a year, in Minneapolis. I saw a guy move himself with a 13' bike trailer and perhaps the same guy move about 25 bikes on the same trailer. Lastly, I can put my bike on the train which gives me a free range of where more than I need. Then I share a car, which I can use for 5-10% of the time.
  
  So I certainly advocate for more bike spending. But I would put this question to you, would we have modern roads at all if funding for them were predicated (initially) on the amount of people who drove?
5. Re:bikes can't handle the truth by Hasaf · 2014-11-02 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  Yes we would. Remember, the early good roads movement was for the benefit of bicycle traffic, auto traffic was a secondary consideration. The good roads, built for bicycles, is what enabled the auto, not the other way around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by GoodNewsJimDotCom · 2014-11-01 10:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

There is a limit on how many CC a gasoline powered bicycle's engine can be just because of random laws in the USA. If you look to China, a great deal of people get around cheaply on a bicycle with gasoline powered engines. But we can't, because we have laws. Now if you turn your bicycle electric, it will be heavier, more inefficient, but there are no ways of measuring how many CC an electric motor has ^^. Voila, sneak around the laws, and maybe you have a market for this.

--
God spoke to me
1. Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by fustakrakich · 2014-11-01 11:43 · Score: 1
  
  Or maybe you'll get an arbitrary speed limit imposed on all bicycles, with or without a motor of any kind.
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
2. Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by ratboy666 · 2014-11-01 11:48 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  What "sneak"?
  Electric drive systems are usually rated by power (in Watts). The motor is usually 90% efficient.
  Common power limits in various jurisdictions are 250W, 500W and 1000W.
  For your reference, 500W is around 1/2 horsepower (0.68). That is enough to propel a rider at 20mph. However, getting to that speed costs power.
  Yes, most ebikes are made in China. At the end of 2013, an estimated 181 million ebikes were on in use in China, with sales of 37 million units.
  This Copenhagen Wheel? Will be a small blip in the market.
  
  --
  Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
3. Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by dfghjk · 2014-11-01 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  But laws regulate the maximum wattage of electric motors for bicycles and their maximum speeds.
  In many places you can ride a bicycle legally on a sidewalk. You don't want power-assisted bikes going 30 MPH on sidewalks mixed with pedestrians and you don't want people "sneaking around the laws" in order to enable this.
4. Re: Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by DNS-and-BIND · 2014-11-01 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  China is currently engaged in banning small engines from cities due to the fact that they're massive polluters.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
5. Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by radl33t · 2014-11-02 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  In most places you don't want bicycles on sidewalks at all. It is not safe. It is tolerated in some places and rightly prohibited in others.
6. Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo by russotto · 2014-11-02 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  NY State laws can't be snuck around unfortunately :( Any power assisted bike is considered a "motor vehicle" and thus, must be registered and licensed. Boo! NY
  Yeah, it's a lot simpler how those laws are dealt with in New York (and New Jersey for that matter); they're just flat-out ignored. There's a ton of electric-assist food delivery bikes in NYC, all illegal.
Article comments by del_diablo · 2014-11-01 10:43 · Score: 1

I am not sure who in their sane mind, writes such a poorly paced 2 page article.
I am sure its up to journalistic standards, but please, learn how to cut it down. Its far too long for something thats essentially "This is a thing, this is the company, and this is how it works, and this was my experience with this thing". Especially when you forget to talk about the third and fourth point.
1. Re:Article comments by RJFerret · 2014-11-01 12:11 · Score: 2
  
  *nods... "I took the bike for a ride at the Cambridge office and offer this review."
  That's factually untrue. This is nothing more than a promo, there is one line that it took longer for a ten minute trip (but not how much longer) or why.
  Where's the review? Where's the experience? Comparisons? Where's anything that gives any idea of what it's like other than how much it weighs? (Simply declaring it'll feel different because they are tweaking it doesn't count.)
  Were this "review" on Amazon I'd answer, "no, this purported review was not helpful at all".
Doesn't solve the problem by rossdee · 2014-11-01 10:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

The problem with bikes is weather.
We are getting into (the northern hemisphere) winter. Snow and ice on the roads make cycling too dangerous, and then theres the wind chill...
1. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by svirre · 2014-11-01 10:59 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Ice is handled by studded tires
  Darkness is handled by lights
  If you can dress up to do any outdoors activity in winter you can also dress to ride a bike.
  Really, weather is not a problem.
2. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by del_diablo · 2014-11-01 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  Even in Russia, all you need is to change the type of tires to use a bike on the winter.
3. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  Being someone who rides a motorcycle, weather has a very large part of how stress free a ride might be. Bicycle? same thing; as the temperature hits 45 degrees or so - you just get cold. That's it.
  I won't ride my motorcycle in very cold wintry weather, and even with the right gear - something is going to get cold, in addition to other drivers not expecting to see a motorcycle / bicycle on the road.
4. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by paazin · 2014-11-01 17:04 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed weather is a large problem. I think the GP here is being a bit disingenuous when considering the circumstances people need to consider when bicycling in tougher conditions.
5. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by dasunt · 2014-11-01 20:25 · Score: 1
  
  Being someone who rides a motorcycle, weather has a very large part of how stress free a ride might be. Bicycle? same thing; as the temperature hits 45 degrees or so - you just get cold. That's it.
  Minnesotan here. Lowest temp so far I've faced on my morning commute is 26F. I still haven't broken out the heavy winter gear.
  A lot of it is how you dress. A wicking underlayer, an insulating middle layer, and a wind-blocking outer layer goes pretty far.
  Unlike a motorcycle, a bicyclist has two advantages - less speed, and more energy output. Both help contribute to staying warmer.
6. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by dasunt · 2014-11-01 20:31 · Score: 1
  
  Also bikes are quite light and do not have the weight on the wheels needed to get a good grip.
  Technology has marched on. Right now, you can buy an off-the-shelf bike with 4" or 5" tires that will run at 8 PSI. Studded versions are available.
  Trust me, traction ain't the problem.
7. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by Trogre · 2014-11-01 20:54 · Score: 1
  
  Rain IMO is a much more uncomfortable bike-riding environment than snow or ice.
  
  --
  "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
8. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by advocate_one · 2014-11-01 21:15 · Score: 1
  
  I guess no-one's told these people that then... "Not many cities can boast 27 percent of cyclists continue using their bikes several times a week all year-round, especially not in cities with eight and half months of winter or an average of 256 days of thermal winter and snow. Oulu, Finland (population 191.000), however, is no ordinary town. It is a town where 98 percent of the cycling network is maintained all winter and all routes have street lighting. Timo PerÃlÃ founder of the Winter Cycling Federation and organiser of the first Winter Cycling Congress in 2013 recently gave us the backstory on his hometown; itâ(TM)s worth retelling here."
  
  --
  Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
9. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by svirre · 2014-11-02 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever tried to ride with a good set of studded bicycle tires? Spinning or breaking traction really is no problem as they grip every bit as good as a studded car tire (Directly related to tire pressure), but are subject to much less sideways loading due to significantly less speed and mass.
  Regarding lights, you obviously need to get a light to see by, not just a marker. Such lights are readily available and not at all a speciality item any more. (more often the problem lies in the opposite end: That lights are too powerful without enough thought to the light distribution, but light solving these issues are also easily available)
  Bikes are not unstable at low speeds. It is hard to balance with NO speed (But you can just put a foot down), as long as you have any speed at all stability is good. Braking power is as good as your traction, which is very good with good studded tires. Compared to cars bikes have comparable contact area in relation to mass (Pretty much given by tire pressure)
  I ride safely throughout winter and here we have ice and snow for 4-5 months every year with temperatures as low as -25C
10. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by radl33t · 2014-11-02 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  yay for MN bike commuting. Last winter was awesome.
11. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by radl33t · 2014-11-02 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  For $20 you can get a 1000 lumens shipped with a Cree LED and Panasonic Li Ion cells. At 800 to 1000 lumens, it is frankly blinding. At 600 lumens it compares to auto lead lamps. Pair it with a bike pump air horn and your presence will be known.
12. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by hawkinspeter · 2014-11-02 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes.
  
  I don't mind the cold on my bike, but I don't like lots of rain as my road bike doesn't brake well in the wet and I have to go a lot slower which takes the fun out of it. Snow is good fun with the right set of tyres, but we don't get a lot of snow here in England.
  
  --
  You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
13. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by Princeofcups · 2014-11-02 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Ice is handled by studded tires
  Darkness is handled by lights
  If you can dress up to do any outdoors activity in winter you can also dress to ride a bike.
  Really, weather is not a problem.
  Really, that is wishful thinking. If you wear glasses, they always fog up. Face protection is paramount, leaving you looking like a serial killer. Massive gloves are required, since they are the most exposed. Then there's fumbling with the bike lock and key while wearing massive gloves, trying to fit your helmet over your hat, baggy snow pants caught in the gears, decreased visibility when in snow, ... They are all small things, but weather certainly IS a problem.
  
  --
  The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
14. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by Reziac · 2014-11-02 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Speaking as one who used to get around town on a bike during Montana winters, with no special equipment (just the winter outdoor gear I'd wear anyway) -- nonsense. Tho you do quickly learn to never, ever use the front brake on ice.
  
  --
  ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
15. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by Slashdot+Parent · 2014-11-03 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes.
  Former Minnesotan here. Anyone who says the above has never left the comfort MN.
  Down here in the south, we have this scourge called "frozen mix". Nothing makes you colder than having 32 degree water/sleet/ice pouring down on your head. The only clothing that can protect you against this plague is a climate-controlled building.
  
  --
  They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
16. Re:Doesn't solve the problem by hawkinspeter · 2014-11-03 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  Well I live in England, where we don't get extreme weather, so I feel justified in saying that to anyone I meet in the UK.
  
  However, with the right clothing, people have survived all kinds of strange conditions (even underwater), so I reckon you just haven't found the right clothing for your frozen mix. (A full scuba drysuit is almost like a climate-controlled building, so you might be right about that).
  
  --
  You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
What about thieves? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-01 10:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've been there and indeed you do see bikes everywhere. I did not see a single electric bike though. When I asked around, I've heard that bikes get stolen all the time so it is not worth putting too much money into them.
1. Re:What about thieves? by R3d+M3rcury · 2014-11-01 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  I've been there [...]
  You mean you're the one who stole my bike!? You bastard! :^D
  
  I've heard that bikes get stolen all the time so it is not worth putting too much money into them.
  This sort of depends. I've yet to have a bike stolen, but I tend to ride to places where I know my bike will be safe. If I'm going somewhere where I don't know that my bike will be safe (like to the local mall), I'll ride my cheap bike.
  The nice thing about something like this is that since it's pretty much self-contained, you can take it with you. So I could attach this $800 wheel to my $150 Huffy and ride 30 miles or so. When I get to my destination, I'd detach the $800 wheel and take it with me and use a simple lock on the Huffy. If somebody really wants my Huffy, they can have it (though they'll need to get a new wheel).
2. Re:What about thieves? by ThatsMyNick · 2014-11-01 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  You take the wheel with you. It is designed to be carried with you.
Re:Laws? by fustakrakich · 2014-11-01 11:38 · Score: 2

TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton,
wrong. I hope this is a massive typo, considering that my car weights just over 1 ton.
*sigh* I guess figurative speech is going the way of the dodo...

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Been done before by macmouse · 2014-11-01 11:46 · Score: 1

This looks very similar to the bionx system that has excited for several years, except it's using your smartphone instead of a dedicated display unit
http://ridebionx.com/products/...
There is a number of smaller companies out there as well making similar conversion kits (or even pre-built systems).
1. Re:Been done before by pherthyl · 2014-11-02 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  There's mocking because you can get a superior ebikes kit for less money that won't be full of proprietary components. That's not to say they won't make money, but there are better options out there
Re:Laws? by macmouse · 2014-11-01 12:02 · Score: 3, Informative

In many jurisdictions it is ILLEGAL for a power-assisted bicycles to exceed 30km/h. If something goes faster and is power-assisted, it is no longer considered a bicycle (or power assisted bicycle), but a motorcycle (or scooter or whatever), and different laws and licensing requirements govern said vehicle.
Exactly. In the United States, the speed limit is 20mph. What you buy is often capable of more than that as a top speed (to deal with steep hills,etc) but the speed is artificially limited
There is also different sub-categories which can vary considerably depending on state
e.g.
"Electric-assist" bicycle (where the user still needs to pedal to some extent keep accelerating)
"Motorized bicycle" where it can be self-propelled (controlled by throttle) after a the user used the pedals from a stop
"Motor-Driven cycle" can be self-propelled from a start, and often allows a higher top-speed but must be smaller than a motorcycle. Per State, may or may not require a full motorcycle license and/or follow motorcycle safety regulations.
See Wikipedia for more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
rotating mass by myforwik · 2014-11-01 13:11 · Score: 1

The battery doesn't rotate, neither do the electronics, nor the stator. They are essentially fixed to the frame, only the wheel, the spokes and rotor rotate... The mass as the back is really no different than when people have rear bags. There an EN standard that has been adopted almost everywhere (except the USA - kind of like the metric system!) which is that pedal assist bikes should go a maximum of 25km/hr.
too expensive by myforwik · 2014-11-01 13:20 · Score: 1

The problem with those kits is that they are not illegal. In most places on earth 200W is the limit, or 250W with pedal assist. Essentially no kit is really pedal assist. The whole point of this wheel is that its street legal and pedal assist, and all in one so you can swap between bikes quickly and easily. It also has a compeditor in flykly.com which was on kickstart, both are trying to ship ASAP and beat each other.
The Real Problem by myforwik · 2014-11-01 13:25 · Score: 1

Good thing they are not selling only to boston then.
Been done before by myforwik · 2014-11-01 13:32 · Score: 2

A lot of them have been done before. However they are all front wheel, with no pedal assist, and have external batteries. Its interesting that there is a lot of mocking of the wheel on slashdot. Both copenhagen wheel and flykly have pre-sold over $1 million dollars worth each, and copenhagen has at least another $4 million in funders who are expecting a large profit. E-bike sales are over 3 million per year, normal bike says are at 100 million per year. So 97% of people with bikes don't have e-bikes. One they start mass producing these wheels could come down to $299 or less. I think eventually they will be standard on most bikes.
Business Issues With Superpedestrian by mbradmoody · 2014-11-01 18:44 · Score: 1

The author did not add much if anything to what is already known about the prototype. A more interesting article would have included some discussion about the way that Superpedestrian reneged on its promise to deliver the Copenhagen Wheel to early adopters like me who pre-ordered it last Christmas. Initial deliveries were supposed to take place in the spring but apparently somebody decided that they should ramp up (and manufacture overseas?) a larger quantity, delaying deliveries until sometime "before the end of 2014." Since May 1st, there has been no communication from Superpedestrian about when actual delivery will occur and pretty much the back of its hand with respect to those of us who paid $750.00 hoping to be a little more involved with the rollout. The author might also have spent some time talking to the bike dealers who want to sell (and service) the Copenhagen Wheel but who have been told by Superpedestrian that it can handle sales and service without any middlemen.
So what's so special? by russotto · 2014-11-02 02:39 · Score: 1

My several year old e-bike has a hub motor. It's on the front wheel rather than the rear (because that makes the mechanicals simpler), but this is all off-the-shelf stuff nowadays.
Limited to 20mph by 'regulations' by gelfling · 2014-11-02 05:21 · Score: 1

Only in the EU. Hilarious. I bet the torque is limited too so if you weigh too much it writes you a ticket.
Nice looking frisbee.. by doccus · 2014-11-02 09:34 · Score: 1

.. But a butt ugly wheel hub. I can't see what's so special about it.. other hubs integrate with smartphones too, these days. Same as the Copenhagen wheel, all of the others also deliver more power on uphill runs (at least all of the newer ones). Many offer regen braking, and make a nice substitute for calipers in the rain. And they're not garish red either. Sorry. Not impressed. The concept is great though. I ride an electric myself, but don't bother with the "assist" feature. Too old ;-)