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Behind Apple's Sapphire Screen Debacle

Frankie70 (803801) writes Apple invested more than $1 billion in an effort to make sapphire one of iPhone 6's selling point. But the iPhone 6 was released without the sapphire screen. GT Advanced Technologies, the small company chosen to supply Apple with enormous quantities of cheap sapphire, declared bankruptcy a month later. Recent documents from GT's bankruptcy proceedings, and conversations with people familiar with operations at Apple and GT, provide several clues as to what went wrong. GT said that to save costs, Apple decided not to install backup power supplies, and multiple outages ruined whole batches of sapphire. The terms Apple negotiated committed GT to supplying a huge amount of sapphire, but put Apple under no obligation to buy it. In its bankruptcy documents, GT would later accuse Apple of using "bait-and-switch" tactics, and said the terms of the deal were "onerous and massively one-sided."

189 comments

  1. Than don't sign the contract by ssufficool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other news: A company so desperate to get into bed with Apple signs away their soul for rainbows and promises.

    1. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Cesare+Ferrari · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed, sounds like a very one sided description of what went wrong. On the one hand, they say they are experts in doing something that other people couldn't, but then say it's apple's fault that their technology didn't work. Hmm, something wrong with this explanation.

    2. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Happens all the time. IBM, then Microsoft, became famous for it. Message to small companies: you are always better off going without the business rather than taking a bad piece of business.

    3. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 2

      In other news: A company so desperate to get into bed with Apple signs away their soul for rainbows and promises.

      Yeah, we all know how bad that ended for Corning, who got suckered into massive investments to produce a formerly failed product by Apple. http://www.wired.com/2012/09/ff-corning-gorilla-glass/all/

      ... Steve Jobs gave the 53-year-old Weeks a seemingly impossible task: Make millions of square feet of ultrathin, ultrastrong glass that didn’t yet exist. Oh, and do it in six months.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    4. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's a classic case of "customer knows better" and they have all the money so you have to do what they say.

      GT is too excited to get into business with Apple. Apple is so excited about their super secret sapphire plant they won't let the people they PAID do the job they're PAID to do.

      I've seen this at smaller companies all the time. Automakers are also famous for it. They sign up mom-n-pop shops and basically take them over till they run out of business... in the auto industry it's practically a revolving door of these type of deals.

    5. Re: Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then*

    6. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You saw Steve Jobs near the current glass deal somewhere? It means Apple is not old Apple anymore. There is nobody in Apple anymore who could make other people believe in impossible things and then deliever it.

    7. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      You saw Steve Jobs near the current glass deal somewhere? It means Apple is not old Apple anymore. There is nobody in Apple anymore who could make other people believe in impossible things and then deliever it.

      And yet GTAT did believe they could deliver. Odd that.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    8. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apple decided to push all of the risk onto GT, which is a perfectly reasonable thing for Apple to do, but a crazy thing for GT to agree to.

    9. Re:Than don't sign the contract by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      In other news: A company so desperate to get into bed with Apple signs away their soul for rainbows and promises.

      New entrepreneurs are always optimistic. They haven't dealt with irresponsible organizations or organizations that think out loud but then choose decisions other than what they let people believe. In a way one could say Apple was bullshitting their plans to confuse the competitors.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    10. Re:Than don't sign the contract by mikeiver1 · · Score: 1

      Wow, really surprised by this. Am I the only one that knows that Apple pushes their suppliers to the limit to maximize profits? I suspect that GT had hoped to use apple to fund the cost of the fabrication facilities at a break even point and make money selling excess production to third parties. Guess they bet wrong on this one. To bad they are not the first or the last.

    11. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other news: A company so desperate to get into bed with Apple signs away their soul for rainbows and promises.

      Agreed, it doesn't matter if the deal was as one sided as the article claims, someone in GT's management had to have signed it.

    12. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Often that's not an option: it's the stark choice of 1) go out of business now, or 2) take the risk of being screwed over by a larger customer and

      Basically it's:

      * 0% chance of success or profit instantly
      * N% chance of success of profit with a smaller M% chance of being screwed over by the bigger customer

      Mathematically N%-M% is > 0% so it's a no brainer - bet on 0% or bet on (N%-M%)>0%. The obvious choice is to give it a go.

      For better or for worse, large customers are often "bulls in a china shop" when it comes to smaller suppliers of critical-yet-innovative technologies. They forget they are dealing with more delicate organizations than they have become and sometimes they tear their suppliers into pieces by just practicing "business as usual" as they perceive it. This is one of the major risks of being a small start-up and supplying large customers - it's a very asymmetric relationship and you have to be VERY on your political/negotiation/financial game as that start-up.

      An example is Seagate: they bought Conner Peripherals which has very novel glass HDD platters (instead of the standard aluminum) which gave them various performance advantages. The platters were made by a small supplier separate from Conner. Seagate decided they wanted those advantages so they bought Connor and absorbed them.

      Seagate purchasing department then started pushing its muscle into contract negotiations with the platter supplier and ultimately caused the platter supplier into bankruptcy. Sudden there was no supplier on the entire planet that could produce the glass platters at any price. Basically the entire Connor purchase was rendered moot and a complete waste of money because the goliath of the bureaucracy didn't know it's own strength nor considered that the critical supplier was NOT actually a financial or business peer that could "take playing rough" as Seagate could but yet was utterly essential to Seagate's supply chain.

      Seagate knows better now and takes some amount pains to avoid this kind of thing (they still play pretty rough with their suppliers).

    13. Re:Than don't sign the contract by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      There were unicorn turds in the deal too. Apple always want their pound of unicorn turd.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    14. Re:Than don't sign the contract by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      In other news: A company so desperate to get into bed with Apple signs away their soul for rainbows and promises.

      New entrepreneurs are always optimistic.

      GTAT is a 20 years old company.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  2. LMAO by mewsenews · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Apple ruined us by trying to buy our product"

    1. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not quite, It is more Apple ruined them by promising to buy their product and then not following through after they had already heavily invested in meeting the supply for that promise. regardless they need to accept responsibility for entering into such a lopsided agreement. You make stupid decisions and stupid things happen. Why would you trust any company in this way, especially apple.

    2. Re:LMAO by x0ra · · Score: 2

      This is not just Apple, the whole supermarket consumer facing chains are plagged with this type of behavior. Everything is a good excuse to squeeze a bit more from the industries, which are often left with no choice but to stfu and comply to every whim.

    3. Re:LMAO by tlhIngan · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Not quite, It is more Apple ruined them by promising to buy their product and then not following through after they had already heavily invested in meeting the supply for that promise. regardless they need to accept responsibility for entering into such a lopsided agreement. You make stupid decisions and stupid things happen. Why would you trust any company in this way, especially apple.

      Well, the other problem was the sapphire wasn't of sufficient quality. Apple's contract said they'd buy it if it was of a certain quality and it failed to meet the bar.

      And while lopsided, Apple did lend over $1B as part of the contract to build the factory and merely demanded repayment on a schedule.

      Now, Apple is claiming innocence to the fact that they didn't know of the troubles - saying if they knew they would've worked with GTAT to fix issues. Whether it's true or not, we don't know.

      Apple bears part of the blame for coming up with the lopsided agreement in the first place. That's not to detract from the blame GT deserves for signing.

      Well, Apple has lawyers draw up the contract. GTAT has lawyers to review the contract. It's not Apple presenting a contract to a 1-man shop - it's an organization that's been around and has the resources to scrutinize and negotiate. If GTAT only saw dollar signs when they were handed the contract and didn't review it closely, that's their fault. This isn't a big supplier going after a lone inventor (who may be given leeway for not completely understanding the deal).

      Interestingly, Apple is keeping the plant and planning on re-hiring laid off workers. GTAT will be selling off the furnaces but Apple paid ofr the factory and is keeping it to manufacture... something.

    4. Re:LMAO by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The trust usually comes because the small company assumes the big one wants to make money by completing an actual product line and selling it - normally the way just about everybody thinks Capitalism works. The small company says to itself, well, they've got to have X (like Sapphire coatings for screens) to make money - they can't actively want us to fail and take steps to make us fail or they take a hit too. So what we have to do is deliver the component at the price where they still make money, and as long as we do that, we're on the same side. So the small company focuses on distrusting the contract clauses it thinks are rational to distrust, in ways that it thinks might allow abuses a rational but dishonest actor might try..
            It's like buying a car and thinking you can't trust the salesman to tell you the truth - only you should have somehow known the salseman wasn't the real salesman but a psycho-killer who had just slain the real salesman and the big thing he wanted wasn't to make too much money selling that car, it was your home address so he could pop by at 2 AM with his skinning knife collection. Most people don't go through life checking with NASA in case the persons they are dealing with are secretly space ailens.
                  From the summary, Apple seems to have had control over the decision to install back up power supplies, and to have chosen to save money on them instead. That sounds like an Apple executive brought in a good quarterly bottom line and then got out before the product couldn't be made as specced, and to heck with whether Apple still looks good five years down the road. The big company takes a small hit, the little one goes bankrupt. Apple is by this definition exceptionally untrustworthy, just because they won't take as much damage as their smaller subcontractors, or individuals, but if that's true, then Capitalism is a system where the bigger a company gets, the less it should be trusted, just for sheer size, and smaller businesses and customers should rationally start distrusting sheer bigness. How about that, free-market types and Randroids, do we need stronger Anti-Trust laws? The other solution seems to be extreme paranoia. If great market share or rapid growth mean everyone should regard that company as exceptionally untrustworthy, they why doesn't it make sense for consumers to always pick a smaller competitor for everything?

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    5. Re:LMAO by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Well, yes. Do you think your company could survive if offered a contract orders of magnitude larger than you'd ever seen, re-tooled to accommodate that one massive order, and then not getting paid for it?

      Slight over-simplification, yes, but fairly representative of what actually happened.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    6. Re: LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, the object of the contract was to drone the production of sapphire to app hands? Did the get the patent for the process? Sounds like pirating is back, someone cutting back on kizan, or changing the rules? Intersting. Set up a supplier, then refuse the product? They had an out there, if they needed to cut support, but I supposed you have to keep lawyers busy somehow. Maybe they dumped sapphire for ruby slippers.

    7. Re:LMAO by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Taking on a contract like that is always going to be a big gamble, if it goes well the returns can be massive but if it goes badly it can sink your buisness.

      Each party is always going to blame the other for the sinking, regardless of who or what was really at fault for the failure.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    8. Re:LMAO by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No.

      They could not deliver it, they made promises to apple they had no right making. They had NEVER MADE sapphire before. and then hoped that apple would set them up for the process.

      Read the article and get the facts instead of just spewing incorrect information.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  3. haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Anybody mind telling me what sapphire is & why its so special?

    1. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's aluminum oxide. Basically impossible to accidently scratch. Can be made very Crack resistant if made correctly.

    2. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Real life transparent aluminum for your phone. Armored "glass" which is really colorless sapphire/ruby.

    3. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Transparent Aluminum.

    4. Re:haven't been following... by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a freaking type of gemstone. It's blue... so when you see the blue gemstones on jewel encrusted whatevers, they'd be the sapphire ones. Have you been living under a rock? Yes, it can be made artificially and is very hard. It is why the best watch crystals are made of sapphire.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    5. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I reckon there's a fair number of iPhone users who won't be happy with a No Crack technical limitation.

    6. Re: haven't been following... by svirre · · Score: 4, Informative

      Crystaline aluminum oxide (AL2O3) to be precise. This material is called ruby if it is red, or sapphire in most other colors (Provided it is of gem quality, otherwise it is just corundum regardless of color)

      It is pretty much only diamond that can scratch sapphire.

    7. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not op, but I assumed it was a trade name, not that they were using actual sapphire crystals. Now that I know the truth, it's much cooler.

    8. Re: haven't been following... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Does anyone actually have problems with scratching of the latest generations of gorilla glass? I've had my Xperia Z2 for over half a year and because it has a glass back as well as front it makes it less risky to try scratch tests, so I've done it a number of times and let other people try to scratch it, and nobody has ever succeeded. I'm sure if you put a diamond to it you'd scratch it, but short of that, I can't see why more scratch resistance is needed.

      Now, *crack* resistance, they could use good improvements in that. : But from reports the sapphire wasn't that crack resistant.

      --
      You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
    9. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Put it in your pocket with keys.

    10. Re: haven't been following... by sensei+moreh · · Score: 2

      I've got some carborundum sandpaper ... In all fairness, you did say "pretty much"

      --
      Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
    11. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really are a DOOFUS. Is anything LESS scratch resistant than a soft metal like aluminium? Does no-one here have even a basic understanding of material science.

      The screen wants to be thin, rigid, scratch resistant (hard) and non-brittle. These 'goals' involve a LOT of contradiction. Corning's Gorilla Glass is a fine COMPROMISE. Apple drank the beta kool-aid that science/engineering is 'magic'.

    12. Re: haven't been following... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 0

      I'm sure if you put a diamond to it you'd scratch it, but short of that, I can't see why more scratch resistance is needed.

      Well, if you can afford an iPhone, you may have diamonds in your pocket at times...

    13. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Metal won't scratch it, sure, but rocks and sand will, and pretty easily. So if a pebble or some grains of sand get into your backpack or pocket along with your phone, you better have a screen protector.

    14. Re: haven't been following... by Rei · · Score: 0

      I've tried with rocks and sand, no effect. So the hardness is clearly higher than quartz. And once you're to that point, how much do you really need to go higher?

      I just wish there was a better way to prevent breakage. :

      --
      You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
    15. Re:haven't been following... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Apple drank the beta kool-aid that science/engineering is 'magic'.

      So your argument is that GTAT conned Apple?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    16. Re: haven't been following... by beltsbear · · Score: 1

      So it is transparent aluminum?

    17. Re:haven't been following... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      There are blue diamonds as well.

      What makes the color is impurities in the crystal.

    18. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, sapphire is more scratch resistant than metallic aluminum and sapphire is...ALUMINUM OXIDE! So, yes, it is TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM!!!

    19. Re: haven't been following... by NormalVisual · · Score: 2

      Most if not all carbides will readily scratch sapphire, although in fairness you're not going to encounter many of them unless you work in a machine shop.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    20. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sapphire is *not* aluminum any more than water is hydrogen. Al2O3 is a compound with a completely different set of physical properties from atomic aluminum.

    21. Re:haven't been following... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Besides being an extremely hard, scratch-resistant gemstone that can obtain exceptional beauty, it is also highly-prized for being used in the bases of things like LEDs as a substrate for the indium-gallium based junctions because of similar thermal expansion and stability.

      It's really a decent material in many applications. It's quite often used in watch faces.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    22. Re:haven't been following... by Khyber · · Score: 4, Informative

      " Is anything LESS scratch resistant than a soft metal like aluminium? Does no-one here have even a basic understanding of material science."

      Do you even have a basic understanding of mineralogy, let alone the Moh's scale of hardness, let alone basic chemistry to apply to those two particular topics?

      Because you certainly seem to not have it.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    23. Re: haven't been following... by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Put it in your pocket with keys.
      Could not agree more, don't care what it's made from, if you do the above, it will come out scratched.
      It's like keys that are unobserved in your pocket turn into diamonds.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    24. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to wear a tungsten allow wedding band. It scratched Gorilla Glass with very little pressure. I stopped wearing it.

    25. Re:haven't been following... by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      Sapphire is the crystalline form of aluminum oxide (-Al2O3). It's a variety of the mineral Corundum.

      It's special because its hardness of 9 in the Mohs scale combined with its transparency make it an ideal material for electronic devices' screens.

    26. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more scratch resistant (harder) it is, the more crack / fracture prone it becomes (it's more brittle).

      You can't really get around that right now, though you can mitigate it a little.

    27. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wedding band or phone? Wedding band or phone? Wedding band or phone? ...fuck it, wedding band has to go!

    28. Re: haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Metal won't scratch it, sure, but rocks and sand will, and pretty easily. So if a pebble or some grains of sand get into your backpack or pocket along with your phone, you better have a screen protector.

      Not in my experience... at all. For 3 decades I've worn dive watches during my underwater salvage operations. My hands and wrists get regularly dragged through coral, sand, rocks etc. The work I do quickly tears the hell out of the crystals in watches with mineral glass, but none of the watches I have with sapphire crystals have any scratches, including a couple that I've been wearing regularly since the mid '80s. I've hit and banged sapphire crystals hard enough to chip or shatter them, but you *cannot* scratch it with sand, pebbles, or even coral, no matter how much you try.

    29. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sapphire is blue because of impurities within it. Pure sapphire, well pure corundum, is clear.

    30. Re:haven't been following... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He thought is was a trade name (as many do). Go back to suckling your mom's saggy cum-encrusted tits, you fucking arrogant dipshit.

    31. Re: haven't been following... by AJWM · · Score: 1

      Not the same stuff. Carborundum is silicon carbide, corundum is aluminum oxide. They're both of similar hardness and both can be produced artificially, with SiC being produced for over a century.

      Things of similar hardness will scratch each other.

      --
      -- Alastair
    32. Re:haven't been following... by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      My guess is you must not have liked finding out you were wrong. Imagine finding out that sapphire is actually a mineral. Where did you go to school, Under Rock High?

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    33. Re: haven't been following... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Trust me, I've done this over and over and over. No scratches. Nor does shaving it boucing about in my purse with all sorts of metal objects. It does not scratch from steel, period. At all. Its Mohs hardness is clearly too high.

      --
      You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
    34. Re: haven't been following... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Yeah, tungsten is up to hardness 8, it's harder than steel, glass, even quartz. It's as hard as emerald. But that's not a typical material one enounters except in specialty applications like that.

      --
      You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
    35. Re: haven't been following... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's a simple issue of mineral hardness. A material of a lower hardness can *break* a material of a higher hardness if hit hard enough, but it can't scratch it.

      --
      You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
  4. Its just Apple being Apple by melting_clock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe suppliers will now reconsider getting involved with Apple. Large companies with extreme market power will often bully their suppliers. It is common for large customers to make demands for price reductions below the contract price, with threats to dump the supplier if they refuse. Having a single customer that makes up most of your sales is a significant risk to any business and something that has to be carefully managed.

    1. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      IIRC, this was what killed off TRS (they of Dungeons and Dragons). They massively overextended by selling to a large buyer, who then proceeded to return all of the goods right before the deadline expired. They had to sell the company to either that party or someone else. So they sold themselves to Wizards of the Coast, to avoid having to sell to the original company that sank them.

      The worse your business sector is doing as a whole, the more the predators and parasites come out and have a go at you.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    2. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, but in this case, they weren't allowed to sell the glass they made to anyone but Apple, and if the goods were rejected, then by contract, they couldn't sell them to another company.

    3. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And now you know why walmart sucks. Same exact tactics. It takes real courage to walk away from the multi-million dollar contract. Especially the ones that will ruin you, but 'look good'.

      They have done this to hundreds of companies. Basically they end up so far gone they are just basically buying the cheapest of cheap 3rd world crap and slapping a previous 'premium' brand name on it.

    4. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by x0ra · · Score: 1

      Given the market Apple opens you to, you pretty much don't hold a chance. Being noticed by Apple for a product like the iPhone is a lifetime chance, or risk depending how you see it.

    5. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then they were fucking stupid to sign that contract. "Bad business decisions sink company" isn't a good headline though.

    6. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by mister2au · · Score: 1

      Tactical Studies Rules aka TSR ... not TRS, FYI

    7. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by swb · · Score: 1

      I kind of wonder if something like this causes Apple to reconsider partnerships with vendors and play somewhat less hardball. It's obviously in Apple's best interest to have GT succeed -- the loan gets remade, they get a new gee-whiz screen material that no one else has or can even make (an established Apple strategy of cornering supplies of new technologies) and GT gets to make money, too, which can be invested in even better sapphire for the iPhone 7.

      Squeeze your vendors too hard, there are fuckups and you've wasted millions of dollars and possibly put much more at risk and you don't gain the new magical feature advantage you wanted.

      What kind of surprises me is that Apple doesn't have their own skunkworks R&D for coming up with new technologies like sapphire screens or other key components. They could work out what they wanted and then farm it out to someone who can mass produce it. Sort of like the Bell Labs or IBM labs.

    8. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      What kind of surprises me is that Apple doesn't have their own skunkworks R&D for coming up with new technologies like sapphire screens or other key components. They could work out what they wanted and then farm it out to someone who can mass produce it. Sort of like the Bell Labs or IBM labs.

      Under Jobs, Apple followed Jobs' vision. Without Jobs, Apple has no vision.

      Probably they should have gone with JLG and BeOS instead.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re: Its just Apple being Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard that Apple's vision is to convert all the Apple stores into gay speed-dating venues.

      They may or may not contain after-party circle jerks but there have been conflicting reports on this.

    10. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably they should have gone with JLG and BeOS instead.

      Yeah I'm sure that would have fixed everything.

    11. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      IIRC, this was what killed off TRS (they of Dungeons and Dragons). They massively overextended by selling to a large buyer, who then proceeded to return all of the goods right before the deadline expired.

      If you have a contract that allows the buyer to return the goods and get the money back, then you haven't actually sold them.

    12. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      And there you go.

      The owner of the company is just a whiny baby that is angry he was stupid but does not want to take responsibility for his poor leadership and even worse business abilities.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      You're right, thanks.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    14. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      True, but this is par for the course with publishers, and one of the reasons the publishing sector is in bad straits. It's a buyers market and if you don't accept the conditions, your competitor will. So either you go out of business outright, or you merely run the risk of going out of business. Not a very enviable position to be in.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    15. Re:Its just Apple being Apple by sribe · · Score: 1

      Maybe suppliers will now reconsider getting involved with Apple.

      Especially the ones who don't have a fucking clue how to actually do what they're promising ;-)

  5. Than don't sign the contract by MarcNicholas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Agreed. Plus I believe Apple merely lent money and secured loans for GT -- they didn't invest in them and push them around; they're a public company.

  6. Apple Inc.... by matbury · · Score: 1, Troll

    ...acted in bad faith? What a surprise.

    1. Re:Apple Inc.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...acted in bad faith? What a surprise.

      Purity. Piety. Wholesome. Honorable. True Believers. Men like Tim Cook, who would never lead us astray, his pedestal so high.

    2. Re:Apple Inc.... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      I can't understand why you wouldn't sign your name to such an insightful comment.

    3. Re:Apple Inc.... by matbury · · Score: 1

      How do I get "Troll" on my moderation? Here's the next Apple Inc. Slashdot story: http://apple.slashdot.org/stor... It's a fact that they act in bad faith. That's not even opinion. They intimidate customers with grievances into sign NDAs and/or threaten them with bankrupting litigation to keep Apple Inc.'s misdeeds under tight wraps.

  7. Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In its bankruptcy documents, GT would later accuse Apple of using "bait-and-switch" tactics, and said the terms of the deal were "onerous and massively one-sided." (Emphasis mine...)

    And Apple gets blamed for this shortcoming? Why did GT sign on the god damned dotted line?

    1. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes a man just has to sign when he feels the moments right ya knaw bra?

    2. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      Apple bears part of the blame for coming up with the lopsided agreement in the first place. That's not to detract from the blame GT deserves for signing.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    3. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      They gambled and lost.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    4. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Why did GT sign on the god damned dotted line?

      Perhaps because of said "bait-and-switch" tactics?

      Doubtless Apple assured GT they would definitely buy all that sapphire; why else would they invest so much in producing it? Even though the contract technically allowed them to back out, there was surely very little chance that would actually happen, and a far greater chance of massive revenue from being a key supplier for the next iPhone...

      Then it turns out that the product wasn't as shatter-resistant as they'd hoped, and they backed out, or whatever. But who could've guessed that Apple might go back on its (non-binding) commitments? Tim pinky-swore!

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    5. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GT was poorly run and couldn't produce even close to the amount they'd promised to Apple. Why should Apple continue to throw good money after bad?

    6. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Just a reminder GT did not sign on the dotted line, GT is not a real person not matter how many deceitful and disingenuous corporate types like to pretend it is, in order to shift responsibility away from themselves to other people and make them pay. So why would the corporate executives of GT sign, what kind of motivation would they individually need to risk their whole company in order to provide Apple the best deal possible. So how much money and risk could Apple save by investing in the executive team of GT, keeping in mind as per typical executive teams the one thing they always put in place for themselves is a golden parachute when it all fails. So how much would Apple have to shift from one offshore tax haven bank account to another offshore bank account to basically get corporate executives to stab their own company in the back, keeping in mind Apple could save hundreds of millions of dollars over the life of the contract or eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars of risk.

      Strange things go on in the world of finance where investment companies routinely buy into doomed companies, that enable vulture capitalists like Mittens Romney to make huge profits. For some strange reasons those executive teams of say pension funds go stupid and buy all sorts of crap for billions of dollars and yet they all still retire rich no matter how much other people's money they lose.

      It should be pretty obvious by now when it comes to corporations, psychopathic corporate executives always act in their own interest and whether or not that serves the interests of the company they work for is completely arbitrary.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pray I do not change it further.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by theVarangian · · Score: 1

      Just a reminder GT did not sign on the dotted line, GT is not a real person not matter how many deceitful and disingenuous corporate types like to pretend it is, in order to shift responsibility away from themselves to other people and make them pay. So why would the corporate executives of GT sign, what kind of motivation would they individually need to risk their whole company in order to provide Apple the best deal possible. So how much money and risk could Apple save by investing in the executive team of GT, keeping in mind as per typical executive teams the one thing they always put in place for themselves is a golden parachute when it all fails. So how much would Apple have to shift from one offshore tax haven bank account to another offshore bank account to basically get corporate executives to stab their own company in the back, keeping in mind Apple could save hundreds of millions of dollars over the life of the contract or eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars of risk.

      Strange things go on in the world of finance where investment companies routinely buy into doomed companies, that enable vulture capitalists like Mittens Romney to make huge profits. For some strange reasons those executive teams of say pension funds go stupid and buy all sorts of crap for billions of dollars and yet they all still retire rich no matter how much other people's money they lose.

      It should be pretty obvious by now when it comes to corporations, psychopathic corporate executives always act in their own interest and whether or not that serves the interests of the company they work for is completely arbitrary.

      This is a case of over eager executives at GT biting off more than they could chew and a bunch of over eager executives at Apple trying way too hard to maximise profits with the result that everybody ended up with egg on their face. So IMHO they are both to blame. GT had the option of not signing a deal that was "onerous and massively one-sided" and telling Apple to go jump in a lake. As regards Apple they should have known better than to offer GT that crappy deal in the first place. I mean saving costs by not to installing backup power supplies on the sapphire growth furnaces, really? Contrary to what some people in the business community seem think you CAN actually end up paying a dollar for trying to save a cent. Somebody at Apple got too greedy and they deserve being a laughing stock of the tech industry as a result.

    9. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They gambled and lost.

      That's how investors are supposed to learn, you make a bad investment and you lose your money. I'm sure the people who run GT learned a lesson from this and I'm pretty sure Apple also learned a few things about how you can lose a bunch of money by trying to cut too many costs. Unfortunately this principle does not seem to apply to banks, apparently banks have become too big to be allowed learn a lesson about stupid investments by losing their shirt so they must be bailed out with money from the public purse.

    10. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trouble with banks is that when they become too big they don't lose their shirt. They lose your pension.

    11. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by N1AK · · Score: 1

      It wasn't bait and switch though. Bait and switch is offering one thing, then only agreeing to provide something else. Apple & GT agreed a contract and as far as this article is concerned they used the terms agreed. I can see why GT agreed to a one-sided contract, but they have to bear a considerable amount of the blame for the decision.

    12. Re:Yes, go ahead...Blame Apple by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Apple bears part of the blame for coming up with the lopsided agreement in the first place. That's not to detract from the blame GT deserves for signing.

      The whole point of any business deal is there's negotiation room. It's not too unusual for one of the sides to ask for the moon and see what they can get away with.

      GT could - and should - have pushed back hard. Sounds like someone let the ego boost of selling to Apple get in the way of sensible negotiation.

  8. Duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you sign a contract with apple or microsoft (and dozens of other giant companys), you ARE getting the short shitty end of the deal.
    If you ever manage to come out ahead when dealing with these companys it will be a miracle.

  9. The power supplies were their bad. by tlambert · · Score: 0

    The power supplies were their bad. Not Apple's. Apple contracted for finished product, and didn't care about how it was made.

    The easy thing to do would have been to contract with Samsung if Apple wouldn't agree to buy; nothing gets Apple to lock up a supply chain vendor's entire production of something faster than offering to sell it to an Apple competitor in roughly the same market.

    They also should have incorporated the production company separately from the furnace company to provide fusable links so that they could jettison the production company without jettisoning the profits that selling the furnaces to the production company got them.

    This was just basically a company that couldn't do what it promised, and was bad at business to boot, and is now trying to get out from under its creditors by spreading liability to a third party with deep pockets.

    1. Re:The power supplies were their bad. by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Oh, you've seen the terms of the contract, then? Do please share.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    2. Re:The power supplies were their bad. by tlambert · · Score: 1

      Did you even read the court filings?

    3. Re:The power supplies were their bad. by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Which one? I couldn't find anything here that describes what you posted about.

      The opposite, perhaps - e.g. GT Equipment Holdings, Inc was indeed incorporated separately to GT Advanced Technology Inc, and GT Sapphire Systems Holding LLC (and others).

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    4. Re:The power supplies were their bad. by N1AK · · Score: 1

      The power supplies were their bad. Not Apple's. Apple contracted for finished product, and didn't care about how it was made.

      That's obviously nonsense, and the fact you'd post it just highlights you have no experience working with large multi-nationals. Firstly Apple will very much care about things like staff working conditions, following pollution rules etc which makes the general statement that they "didn't care how it is made" entirely incorrect. Secondly, it is very common for large companies to get extensively involved in the operations of suppliers. I've seen first hand examples of major retailers attending company strategy meetings and pushing for cuts in production costs which they will take a chunk of. It would not shock me at all if Apple had sent back GT's business plan with amendments like dropping reserve power suppliers and asking for a chunk of the savings to be deducted from their price.

  10. Both sides equally (albeit differently) at fault by zr · · Score: 1

    Apple intimidated a smaller company into an unworkable deal.

    The smaller company that supposed to be an expert in the field agreed to sign an unworkable deal.

    Both failed to amend the deal in time to fix the debacle. Businesses amend deals all the time. Provided the fundamentals were good, all they had to do was communicate timely.

  11. Common story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is a pretty common story really. Doing business with apple is very often bad news.

    What happens is usually that a business seeing an opportunity to sell to apple starts bending over backwards to get the socket, this takes a lot of resources (Because apple always require a lot of bending over backwards) and the end product is usually something so specialized for the purpose that only apple is the relevant buyer.

    So while you can make a bunch of money short term, you tend to lose your preexisting customers as you focused all your resources on pleasing apple. The day apple moves on to a different supplier you are stuck with no customer base and poor prospects. Your only hope is to stay on good terms with apple while you gradually wean yourself off them (Good luck with that). If that fails you better hope you made enough money while it lasted to make it worth it.

    Still the contracts and requirements are there, it's not like apple is breaking the law, any business owner has a responsibility to understand the consequences of the deals they make.

  12. Jack Tramiel by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds an awful lot like Jack Tramiel's questionable business practices while at Commodore:

    1. Make a large order to a supplier for parts
    2. Supplier runs up costs and works to complete the order
    3. Fail to pay the supplier in a timely manner
    4. Let the supplier go bankrupt
    5. Buy the supplier at liquidated prices
    6. Profit!

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
    1. Re:Jack Tramiel by Bogtha · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That doesn't sound like this situation at all.

      Apple loaned GT more than half a billion dollars to build the plant. When GT failed to deliver, Apple stopped giving them money. When GT ran into financial difficulties, Apple offered to give them more money and defer repayments to keep them afloat.

      What did you expect Apple to do? Just keep on giving them more money indefinitely without getting anything in return?

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:Jack Tramiel by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      By some accounts Jack Tramiel eventually doomed himself when he took over Atari. Atari's suppliers wanted to renegotiate their contracts when Jack came on board because they had been so burned by Commodore that they didn't want any wiggle room in the new contracts.

    3. Re:Jack Tramiel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What did you expect Apple to do? Just keep on giving them more money indefinitely without getting anything in return?

      That very tactic won the war on poverty.

    4. Re:Jack Tramiel by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Try reading about the Atari-Amiga deal. It sounds a lot like this deal.

      Atari made a loan to Hitoro to develop the computer. With the option of buying it afterwards when it was completed. But Atari, under Tramiel, decided it was better to let Hitoro sink with the development costs and get the Amiga for nothing extra - basically they would foreclosure Hitoro to 'pay back' the loan they made. The founders and partners of Hitoro would lose all the money they invested in the process. Thankfully Commodore bailed Hitoro out just in the nick of time.

    5. Re:Jack Tramiel by Saffaya · · Score: 1

      Jack Tramiel didn't doom himself when he took ATARI.
      Under his leadership, ATARI made computer history with the ATARI ST line.
      It is when he semi-retired and let his sons at the helm that the company slowly degraded into irrelevance.
      Selling the exact same model of computer for 7 years was what doomed ATARI.
      His late return consisted of killing the computers division and betting everything on a new game console (the Jaguar).
      But his strategy towards games was simply to make the best possible hardware, and game would follow automatically.
      Something that worked before for computers, but would not for consoles.

      The Jaguar showed it isn't enough to have the best hardware, you need the best games too.

      (In the same vein, but different company, the SEGA DreamCast showed it isn't enough to have the best hardware and the best games, you need to have the best marketing too.)

  13. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree.
    From my own experience, our company chose not to deal with a very large potential buyer because if we got too involved with them they could ruin us in a day if they decided to pull their support. The investment on our side would have been too great, it was too risky. We don't regret it.

  14. Re:Then don't sign the contract by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not that cut and dried. Apple was the one who insisted on renegotiating the contract, as well as not installing a backup power supply for each furnace and starting production in a non-commissioned plant.

    Apple originally offered to buy sapphire-growing furnaces from GT. But according to sources familiar with negotiations, after five months Apple demanded a major change in terms, requiring GT to supply the sapphire itself. In fact, Apple wanted GT to build the world’s largest factory to produce the stuff—more than doubling the world’s entire sapphire production capacity.

    Producing sapphire requires a very clean environment, but ongoing construction at the factory meant that sapphire was grown "in a highly contaminated environment that adversely affected the quality of sapphire material," according to GT. It also requires uninterrupted supplies of water and electricity to regulate the temperature of the molten aluminum oxide used to form the boule. GT said that to save costs, Apple decided not to install backup power supplies, and multiple outages ruined whole batches of sapphire.

    Make no mistake about it - Apple was in the driver's seat in this mess. It was their deadline for the iPhone6 that set the stage for attempts to grow sapphire in an unfinished factory. But Apple will find a way to make money out of this.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  15. sounds like IBM / Micropolis by dltaylor · · Score: 4, Informative

    IBM had used Micropolis drives back when 5MB was a common size. They insisted that Micropolis buy new production equipment to make the 40s in enough quantity to supply the projected PC demand, then IBM chose another vendor, leaving Micropolis with a lot of production capacity for which to pay, and no customer. Bye-Bye, Micropolis.

    1. Re:sounds like IBM / Micropolis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... IBM chose another vendor ...

      I read a court case similar to this: The manufacturer geared-up. The prospective buyer didn't respond on the offer-lapse date. When the manufacturer was ready for production, the buyer rejected the deal. The manufacturer sued the buyer for improvement costs and won.

  16. Breaking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Breaking news: GT blames Apple for their bankruptcy

    Coming up in tomorrow's hot news: man blames someone else for his failure.

  17. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
    Actually, the deal was amended to shift all the risk to GT:

    Apple originally offered to buy sapphire-growing furnaces from GT. But according to sources familiar with negotiations, after five months Apple demanded a major change in terms, requiring GT to supply the sapphire itself. In fact, Apple wanted GT to build the world’s largest factory to produce the stuff—more than doubling the world’s entire sapphire production capacity.

    In the end, the fundamentals weren't good for either party. GT is bankrupt, and Apple had to switch their plans from sapphire at the last minute.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  18. Post-human capitalism by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    GT said that to save costs, Apple decided not to install backup power supplies, and multiple outages ruined whole batches of sapphire. The terms Apple negotiated committed GT to supplying a huge amount of sapphire, but put Apple under no obligation to buy it.

    Understanding how business is done in the second decade of the 21st century requires a level of cynicism that I'm just not willing to endure.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  19. Re:Then don't sign the contract by AuMatar · · Score: 2

    They could still have ended negotiations. That said- it would take an extremely good businessman to do it at that point, most would already be counting the money Apple would make them. But if a deal is wrong you need to walk away. They're hardly the first company to fail because they made a bad decision to take on a contract they weren't ready for.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  20. "onerous and massively one-sided." by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uhm, you're supposed to notice this before you sign, not after you go bankrupt.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:"onerous and massively one-sided." by SourceFrog · · Score: 1

      It's not always easy to tell. In spite of all the apparent business and legal experts on slashdot screaming how obvious this should have been with 20/20 hindsight, I rather doubt the contract stated "Apple has the right to screw GT over royally". I think in this case, the devil will be in the details - it's probable that Apple abused obscure clauses (or possibly even violated the agreement) that at the time seemed unlikely to cause issues - the lawyers here will probably have to go over a lot of detailed documentation over what happened to really figure out the nature of the screwing and how much Apple was at fault etc.

      In spite of the necessity of contracts, all business interactions still rely on a certain level of basic trust.

      --
      My other UID is three digits.
  21. Re:Hey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who doesn't?

  22. Re:Then don't sign the contract by TheSunborn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I newer understood the "not installing a backup power supply for each furnace" situation.

    Who owned and was responsible for the factory? The story has always been that GT produced Sapphire, and that apple maybe wanted to buy it.

    So why did GT let apple control anything at all, about their factories?

    From the article " after five months Apple demanded a major change in terms, requiring GT to supply the sapphire itself. In fact, Apple wanted GT to build the world’s largest factory to produce the stuff"

    So If Apple wanted GT to supply the sapphire, why did they have any say in the day to day running of the factories. Sounds like GT gave far to much factory control to Apple for no reason at all.

  23. Can see how this happened by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The salespeople saw money. The business people, who would normally assess risk, got blinded by the prospect of making huge amounts of money. The engineers who could see disaster coming were not consulted or ignored.

    1. Re:Can see how this happened by jakimfett · · Score: 0

      This.

      --
      Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
    2. Re:Can see how this happened by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      The salespeople saw money. The business people, who would normally assess risk, got blinded by the prospect of making huge amounts of money. The engineers who could see disaster coming were not consulted or ignored.

      I suppose the people signing the contracts saw big bonuses coming their way, plus big money from their company share options, with the risk being that they had to find a new job if the deal went sour. So a contract was signed that benefitted those signing the contract, but didn't benefit the company.

    3. Re:Can see how this happened by MouseR · · Score: 1

      They actually cached in lots of their stock one month before the release of the iPhone.

      They knew very well what was going on.

  24. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

    Except that Apple had no way to intimidated GT. GT did not have any need for Apple, and they could simply have walked away from Apple, and continued their business as before.

  25. Maybe Apple Will Learn a Lesson by SwashbucklingCowboy · · Score: 1

    Sure, it's great to drive the a good bargain with your suppliers. But, when you drive your suppliers out of business, particularly a sole supplier, maybe it's better to let them make a little money too.

  26. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Probably the GT execs ran out of money (by greedy bonus payouts to themselves and/or incompetence in planning) and had to go begging to Apple for more money for backup power supplies, at which point Apple said, "no, why didn't you ask for that in the first place?"

    Apple would never have given the money to GT if they knew the odds of failure were so high, GT must have done a song and dance to Apple that GT was able to execute. You can see other suppliers to Apple not having such a rough go of it because you may have to promise big but you have to deliver big. I would believe that the terms and investment that Apple has given to the other suppliers are similar in form.

  27. Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by IcyHando'Death · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not much sympathy for either party from me, as I'm sure both companies understood the nature of the contract. I wonder, though, how much it has cost Apple in sales and good will to be putting out a product without the top-of-the-line screen. Probably a lot more than they were trying to squeeze out of this deal with their ruthless negotiating tactics. This is the sort of thing Stephen Covey (7 Habits of Highly Effective People) was going on about when he advocated seeking out the win-win deal. If your partners don't prosper, it will always come back to hurt you.

    1. Re:Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder, though, how much it has cost Apple in sales and good will to be putting out a product without the top-of-the-line screen.

      It's cost Apple nothing. They're selling every iPhone 6 they can produce.
      Here's what could end Apple's winning streak

      Another fear is that iPhone sales could hit a wall in 2015 because of its success rate, RBC's Daryanani said.

      The iPhone is on track to capture almost 70 percent of the high-end smartphone market ($300 or more) in the next few months, at which point the company could possibly face some market saturation concerns, said Daryanani, who has an "outperform" rating on the stock with a $120 price target.

      "If you are looking at having 70 percent market share in the next few months, you have to ask where is the new opportunity or where are the new revenue drivers for them?" he said. "So you have a hit point where you run into some saturation in the market. In the next six months this could become an issue."

      Apple PR flacks are talking this risk down, but other than smart watches, Apple doesn't really have room to grow in the USA.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's only a problem for idiots who insist on constant growth. Having 70% of any market buying your stuff is an excellent position to be in.

    3. Re:Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      70% of your market buying your stuff is great. 70% of your market liking the thing they bought from you last year and not deciding to upgrade is a problem. This was also Microsoft's problem with Windows XP - it wasn't great, but it was good enough for most people. When the iPhone came out, it and the other new smartphones with big touchscreens were a big change from what went before. Now, even a cheap smartphone like the Moto G is more than powerful enough for most users, so what's the incentive to upgrade?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're obviously completely clueless about how the stock market works.

    5. Re:Hardball negotiations not an effective strategy by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      70% of your market buying your stuff is great. 70% of your market liking the thing they bought from you last year and not deciding to upgrade is a problem.

      IOW Android is doomed.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  28. The missing information here: is it feasible? by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Is it feasible to make sapphire smartphone screens which are not too shatter-prone? or not?
    Are the properties of the material at that physical thickness and expanse just not good enough?
    Or could it be done, if done more carefully?

    Never mind the bolloxed business deal and manufacturing process in this case, is it feasible in principle at this stage of physics and engineering knowhow?

    If so, isn't someone else going to pick up the slack here?

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:The missing information here: is it feasible? by ComputersKai · · Score: 1

      Corning Glass did a test regarding it, but they are probably a little biased toward themselves, as they manufacture Gorilla Glass. Nevertheless, there are some advantages Gorilla Glass does have over sapphire.
      I suppose sapphire glass solutions can possibly be implemented, but without some major improvements it'll probably just be a more expensive end-product with a bit more benefit.

    2. Re:The missing information here: is it feasible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but they are probably a little biased toward themselves

      check it out... Corning has good scientists and engineers that care about their work. I have a feeling they try hard not to be, and they'd be ashamed if they ever let bias screw up their science. Corning is a much better model American company than Apple.

    3. Re:The missing information here: is it feasible? by Animats · · Score: 2

      Is it feasible to make sapphire smartphone screens which are not too shatter-prone?

      Sure it is. Home Depot checkout scanner glass is sapphire-coated. You can drag steel tools across it all day for years on end.

    4. Re:The missing information here: is it feasible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * I think it's thicker

  29. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Dogtanian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    it would take an extremely good businessman to [terminate] at that point, most would already be counting the money Apple would make them. But if a deal is wrong you need to walk away. They're hardly the first company to fail because they made a bad decision to take on a contract they weren't ready for.

    The Register ran an opinion piece when the details on this story were first appearing a couple of weeks back. It noted an almost unbelievable point others have commented on elsewhere in this thread:-

    [The usual form of the contract is that companies agree] to build whatever to [the agreed] standard and by that time. Excellent. If we do so then you have to either take them and pay for them or if you don't take them you've still got to pay for them. If we don't make them to standard or in time then here's the damages we'll pay. But if we hit the spot then you're committed to pay for them.

    But here's what it actually did sign up to:

    Those agreements, said Daniel Squiller, GTAT's chief operating officer, were almost entirely one-sided. By the time Cupertino's lawyers were done, he said, GTAT was presented with an deal that, among other terms, required it to: commit to producing millions of units of sapphire, even though Apple was not obligated to buy any of them.

    Something the author describes as "sheer lunacy". Either they were utterly, *utterly* struck blind or there is something strange and dubious going on. Oddly, the "struck blind" explanation isn't as improbable going by a comment in the letters section (from "Edwin"):-

    The sexiness of having Apple (or some other A-list brand) as a major customer is extremely seductive to many 'executives'. Not only because it's great advertising, but the bolstering of the supplier's individual executive ego.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  30. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the smarter bears structure their companies so that if a larger customer burns you, it just sinks one of your shell corps which typically has few real assets.

  31. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Balthisar · · Score: 3, Informative

    This isn't uncommon in industry (it's also not the normal way of things). If we want to to be certain that a supplier builds something the right way, we might specify every detail of the tooling, and sometimes buy it and install it ourselves.

    --
    --Jim (me)
  32. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by zr · · Score: 1

    it was never about "need".

    nothing wrong with good old fashion greed..

  33. WRONG- it's brittle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Cretins think material science is 'magic', and with enough 'effort' a wonder material can be made with only 'positive' properties.

    Sapphire ***IS*** extremely true scratch resistant (as in the surface atoms resist displacement) because sapphire is BRITTLE. Apple needed a 'magic' material to better 'Gorilla Glass' and the like, so they acted like every Slashdot Beta, and indulged the fantasy that 'science' 'solves' everything with enough money.

    Come the day, sapphire iPhones suffered horrible drop failure at the expected rate- with the added 'bonus' of employing a horribly expensive 'solution'. Apple learnt the hard way that such materials are great if you can afford to make the 'window' either very thick or very small.

    Here's the thing. Apple has run out of 'low hanging fruit' 'innovation' for their very expensive executive toys. Even spending insane amounts of money on R+D and materials no longer buys Apple a significant advantage against much cheaper rivals in the marketplace. Apple IS better if your metric is trivial and childish, but even for Apple fans, 'better' no longer means what it did a few years back.

    Since Apple is insanely rich, I would advise every dishonest Human with a technology bent to visit Apple HQ and pitch some pie-in-the-sky magic tech solution, for never has the company been so desperate to believe such nonsense. Honestly, I'd expect even an average 12-year old science student to know that as hardness improves (ie scratch resistance) so does brittleness. No-one at Apple had even this basic awareness, so they're clearly vulnerable for any sort of future con.

    1. Re:WRONG- it's brittle by debrain · · Score: 1

      Maybe the GT deal was a big ruse - a relatively cheap way to bargain a better deal for Gorilla Glass.

    2. Re:WRONG- it's brittle by Smauler · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sapphire ***IS*** extremely true scratch resistant (as in the surface atoms resist displacement) because sapphire is BRITTLE.

      Well... no. Sapphire is extremely scratch resistant and sapphire is relatively brittle. Just because something is scratch resistant does not mean it has to be brittle. Gorilla glass is, for example, both harder and tougher than normal glass. Diamond is both harder and tougher (iirc) than sapphire.

    3. Re:WRONG- it's brittle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Diamond is harder, but it is more brittle than Sapphire not less, this is why they are easily shaped with taps from a small metal hammer.

  34. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by zr · · Score: 1

    risk is nothing unusual in the business. all GT would have had to do was either:

    - pad the contract enough to account for the risk (they may have, i've not read the contract)

    OR

    - say "no" to the amendment.

    worst case scenario they would have lost a (granted, large) customer. instead they went bankrupt.

    the fundamentals _were_ good. namely one side clearly wanted sapphire and had plenty of cash. the other side knew how to make it and had the expertise.

    only goes to show that fundamentals alone are not enough to guarantee success.. quite frankly thats why not every geek (yours truly included) can grow a successful business.

    last point i'll make is, i wouldn't draw long term conclusions out of this snafu. business deals fall through. shit happens. hopefully both sides learned something.

  35. They don't seem to care... by Ecuador · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They don't seem to care about losing customers. Perhaps they know that their customers are mostly fans who will always buy whatever overpriced gadget they throw at them, as long as the new product carries a new buzzword or two. That's what the sapphire screen was, a buzzword, and that is made clear by the fact that instead of switching to something about as effective like Gorilla glass, they shipped a scratch-able glass screen instead. It was not about using the best material for their screen, it was just about using the most marketable material. When the plan failed, their response was to change the marketing campaign.
    In the meantime, at the office, all iphones without protectors are full of scratches, while the Samsungs have mostly pristine screens...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  36. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    GT never produced sapphire prior to this arrangement, they manufactured photo-voltaic silicon. Apple was looking to produce sapphire on a scale needed for their iPhone, something nobody had done before. GT convinced them they could do it. Apple required an exclusivity clause because they didn't want to invest any money unless they got all the sapphire and in return, the production process would be owned by GT. Apple bought the facilities in Arizona and loaned GT money to manage the operations. It was a large gamble that GT was willing to take. Apple's position carried less risk because they have a strong cash position and could continue to use Gorilla glass. When production yields where bad and GT didn't meet its obligations, Apple decided not to buy any sapphire. For its part, Apple did agree to renegotiate the contract to help GT, as they held out hope that GT could perfect the process after the iPhone 6 shipped. Unfortunately, GT's cash position deteriorated to a point where they needed bankruptcy protection.

  37. The product was not good enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Signing a dangerous contract is one thing, but in addition apparently the Sapphire was not of the promised non-brittle innovative kind.

  38. Re: Both sides equally (albeit differently) at fau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, did they switch. That would have delayed the next roll-out. There was no delay. Jut the opposite. On time. So it was for an upcoming project. Second part, they took over the plant and the workers. Project is still on. But are they after a thicker, less flexible phone, or another device that's already for production.

  39. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    I once contracted for a medium-small company that was under contract with Disney to supply services. Disney was a royal pain in the ass to this company in that they were super picky, but the company used them for bragging rights when attempting to sign on other companies. Eventually they dropped Disney when it was realized the bragging rights were not worth the abuse.

  40. Re: Hey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who's not a bigoted, trailer trash raised moron?

  41. My first thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... put Apple under no obligation to buy it.

    Who's to blame for that? My first thought is of the shareholders and employees. I suspect such a decision is evidence of culpability in class action litigation.

  42. PopeRatzo at the Quads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    With apologies to Ernest Lawrence Thayer

    The outlook wasn't brilliant for the student march that night;
    The quads were filled with rent-a-cops and not a picket sign in sight;
    With Cooney busted for possession, and Barrows, the riot laws;
    A sickly silence fell upon the supporters of The Cause.

    A straggling few got up to go, in deep despair. The rest
    Clung to that hope which "springs eternal in the human breast;"
    They thought, If only Gay PopeRatzo could be rallying that mob,
    We'd put up even money now, with PopeRatzo at the quads.

    But Flynn preceded Ratzo, as did also Jimmy Blake,
    And the former was a no-good and the latter was a fake;
    Forlorn, that stricken multitude discouraged by the odds,
    For there seemed but little chance of Ratzo's getting to the quads.

    But Flynn let fly a bottle, to the wonderment of all,
    And Blake, the much despised, set a bomb off in the hall,
    And when the dust had lifted and men saw what had occurred,
    Jimmy beaned the Dean of Students, while the bombed out library burned.

    Then from five thousand throats and more there rose a lusty yell,
    It rumbled through the valley, it rattled in the dell,
    A Harley roared up from the street, and was tearing up the sod,
    And PopeRatzo, Gay PopeRatzo, was advancing through the quads.

    There was ease in Ratzo's manner as he wheeled into his place;
    There was pride in Ratzo's bearing and a smile on Ratzo's face,
    And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly gave a nod,
    No stranger in the crowd could doubt `twas Gay PopeRatzo at the quads.

    Ten thousand eyes were on him as he gunned the throttle loud;
    Five thousand tongues applauded as he signaled to the crowd.
    And while the nervous officers grabbed the night sticks from their hips,
    Defiance gleamed in Ratzo's eye, a sneer curled Ratzo's lip.

    And now a can of tear gas came hurtling through the air,
    And PopeRatzo stood a-watching it in haughty grandeur there,
    Close by the haughty Ratzo , the can unheeded sped --
    "That ain't my style," said PopeRatzo . "Break it up!" the coppers said.

    From the streets, black with people, there went up a muffled roar,
    Like the beating of the storm waves on a stern and distant shore.
    "Kill them; kill the pigs!" shouted someone from the mob;--
    And PopeRatzo guns his engine, and wipes-out on the lawn.

    With a fist of protest shaking, PopeRatzo's visage shone;
    He jumped back on his Harley; he bade the march go on;
    The Harley takes off through the quads, 'till it hits a vicious bump;
    And PopeRatzo sails through the air, landing smack upon his rump.

    "Fascists!" he screeched, "Capitalist, Imperialist, Racist, Sexist pigs!"
    "If I must I'll ride a tricycle, but we'll have this march - you dig?"
    They saw his face grow stern and cold; they saw his muscles strain,
    And they knew that Gay PopeRatzo wouldn't lose that bike again!

    The sneer is gone from Ratzo's lip; his teeth are clenched in hate;
    He sniffs with cruel derision as he lets go of the brake.
    And now he throws it into first, the clutch he now he lets go,
    And now the air is shattered as the bike takes off - alone.

    Oh! somewhere there's a campus town where they drum and chant all night.
    They protest for the rain forest, and demand the polar bear’s rights.
    And somewhere bongs are being passed, and somewhere radicals shout;
    But there is no joy at Old State U -- Gay PopeRatzo has Wiped Out!

  43. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But it sounds like Apple was bankrolling GT for the factory. which means they negotiated some kind of investment budget. Apple probably went through the list, found what sounds like excesses and asked GT if all this was really necessary or if it could be done cheaper. Apparently GT failed to justify the cost, so it was stricken from the final budget. When shit hit the fan it might have been too late to start redesigning and they were already behind schedule and budget with botched batches, GT might not have had the financial muscle to fix it and Apple might be concerned about throwing good money after bad. After all, this is how most terrible investment decisions are made, we're already $500 million down the hole so we need to spend a hundred more to finish it. Then we're already $600 million down the hole so we need to spend a hundred more to finish it and so on. Apple had a reasonable plan B by sticking with Gorilla Glass so they weren't pot commited as they'd say in poker.

    Remember, just because GT can point to this and say that's why it failed doesn't mean it'd be a success otherwise as they might have stumbled on the next hurdle too. After all, if the product that did come out okay was that great I'm sure Apple would have been more willing to see it through too, unless they decided it was cheaper to let GT fail and pick up the pieces. I really doubt it's as easy as Apple buying GT's assets, installing a few UPSes in the factory and they're ready to go for the iPhone 6s. Like they say, production at this scale had never been attempted before which generally means you have to expect the unexpected. GT seems to have bet everything on things going according to plan, they gambled and lost. It's pretty cheap to try blaming Apple for their own botched execution, they're a business and don't just throw money around. If they failed to get sufficient investment that's nobody but GT's fault.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  44. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not if you already invested too much, since you go bankrupt then. (I don't know if this was the case at this point)

  45. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This sounds like a contract without legal consideration, which would have effectively invalidated the contract since it required GTAT to make all the commitments and Apple to not.

  46. Emergency Loans for Retirement. by thexfile · · Score: 1

    It wouldn't be surprising if the top guys at GT received their golden parachutes.

  47. How is Apple at fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If GT is the Supplier, why would Apple have to supply furnaces at GT's factories? Isn't that GT's responsibility?

  48. Re: Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was in the same position with Disney once. Royal pains in the butt - awful to work with. But it was at a time when they were one of very few studios offering work at the time. It was either take it or starve. Had to just grin and bear it.

  49. Apple's CSM Strikes Again by WhoBeDaPlaya · · Score: 1

    Looks like their infamous CSM team strikes again

  50. Re:Then don't sign the contract by pegdhcp · · Score: 1

    It is general practice in OEM/ODM manufacturing that the buyer decides methods of production, especially QA and even logistics, maybe even HR... It is the sole responsibility of manufacturer to decide the situation is viable or not. They can either choose to go with the deal or not. It is their (claimed only in this case) expertise in the first place which attracts buyer to their facility. If they are not able to see or tell the problems in the business model on table it is their fault not to make corrections before the problems' occurrence.

  51. It does have a top of the line screen by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I wonder, though, how much it has cost Apple in sales and good will to be putting out a product without the top-of-the-line screen.

    It dies; like every other top of the line smart phone the iPhone 6/+ uses Gorilla Glass.

    In theory Sapphire about have been the new top of the line, but since nothing else uses anything better than what it ships with now why would Apple be losing sales over it?

    Note that the Gorilla Glass guys claim Sapphire might have better scratch resistance, but is not as good in terms of shattering - and Gorilla Glass 4 supposedly does as well in terms of resisting scratches while having even better shatter resistance. So it could be Apple dodged a bullet by not having screens that shattered more easily.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  52. Ah, that old Apple Hater Lament by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Informative

    Perhaps they know that their customers are mostly fans who will always buy whatever overpriced gadget they throw at them

    Or it could be Apple Haters do not and never will understand the reasons why people buy iPhones, and keep buying them after the first one.

    It's also always been a puzzle to be how Apple Haters claim Apple has over-priced phones when the are the same price in and out of contract as other supposedly high-end phones.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  53. iPhones do use Gorilla glass by Brannon · · Score: 3, Informative

    They always have. The original iPhone was the first smartphone to use Gorilla glass, created by Corning at Apple's prompting. iPhones have continued to use the best available Gorilla glass continually on every single iPhone since. The screen on a Samsung is no more scratch resistant than the iPhone--your anecdotes are either coincidence or just you making shit up. Guess where my money is.

    1. Re:iPhones do use Gorilla glass by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Hmm, looking into it I do read that at least the original iPhone had the Gorilla Glass. However, I am not "making shit up", several iPhone 4 and 4s in the office had very scratched screens to the point that they were replaced, and we found out this was a very common replacement. The Galaxy phones do not seem to scratch. I have a Galaxy S3 with no screen protector with me for the last couple of years and it does not even have a minor scratch. Coincidence? I don't know. But why are Apple products not listed in the Corning page with the full list of products with Gorilla Glass?

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  54. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    " Either they were utterly, *utterly* struck blind or there is something strange and dubious going on. "
    Or they were led on by Apple and a bit naive. They probably over-extended themselves trying to please Apple on the implied promise of a large contract. Then Apple renegotiated on unfair terms. At that point GT had a choice: Tell Apple to get lost and sink the business attempting futile legal remedy, or hope everything goes OK and the business doesn't sink later. Otherwise it'd be a huge co-incidence that Apple suddenly decided to renegotiate on extremely unfair terms. They wouldn't have done this if they didn't already think they had them over a barrel.

    It appears that if Apple hadn't been such control freaks over decisions they had no expertise in (Hardly a new thing with Apple), then GT was likely to come through OK with the hope strategy.

  55. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice straw man....

  56. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Immerman · · Score: 1

    So one more example that, in the corporate world, a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on. You'd think that sooner or later people would stop having to learn that one for themselves. I suppose some people like to gamble, but if a company doesn't include verbal agreements in the written contract shouldn't your first assumption be that they plan to screw you over sooner or later? Or are at least including it in their contingency plans.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  57. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    So one more example that, in the corporate world, a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

    Who makes a 500 million dollar deal based on a verbal agreement? You also took GTAT's word hook, line, and sinker.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  58. Re:Both sides equally (albeit differently) at faul by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    I guarantee the GT executives all got dirty filthy rich off of the failure.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  59. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Eventually they dropped Disney when it was realized the bragging rights were not worth the abuse.

    The problem is that- depending upon the contract- the smaller company being screwed over is now in a position where they *can't* pull out of the contract because their large customer has them over a barrel. They've expanded and/or dedicated significant resources to supplying and pleasing that customer they thought would be a cash cow- possibly dropping other markets- and if the large company was to terminate the contract as threatened, they'd then have a massive production operation to fund with no-one to buy the end result.

    It's either that quick death, or the slow death of having your margins ruthlessly squeezed beyond a sustainable point.

    From another letter in the comments section of that article (from "Mugs"):-

    I was once stuck on a train with a colleague ranting about a similar contract. The contract was in the 40s between Woolworth and his grandfather who ran a broom factory. Woolies started off with a small order, gradually increased until they took all the output then drove the price down until the factory went bust.

    This was behaviour I was already familiar with relating to Wal-Mart, but it shows you it happened even back then. You can bet your life that in every case, the large customer knew exactly how this was going to play out in advance.

    See this:- The Wal-Mart you don't know
    And this:- The Man Who Said "No" to Wal-Mart

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  60. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    " Either they were utterly, *utterly* struck blind or there is something strange and dubious going on. "

    Or they were led on by Apple and a bit naive. They probably over-extended themselves trying to please Apple on the implied promise of a large contract.

    That's essentially what I was implying by the first of those two options.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  61. Re:Then don't sign the contract by cptdondo · · Score: 1

    But GT signed up for this. When I had my small business, we turned down big contracts regularly. You can't have a single client be 90% of your business, because if anything glitches,you're out of business. We would never take on a job that was more than half of our annual revenues, and we only took on one job like that at a time, filling the rest of the calendar with smaller jobs.

  62. great opportuinity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for someone to pick up sapphire growing furnaces and know how 10cents on the dollar
    Pioneers are the people lying face down with arrows in their backs

  63. Apple Jerk-Fest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guess all the normal people are eating turkey. This turned into another /. Apple bashing masturbation festival.

    Seriously, in all of the posts NO ONE mentions that Sapphire was NEVER supposed to be in the screen of the iPhone 6? This is an incorrectly-parroted rumor started by a business analyst, that, later made up a story why it didn't happen.

    ALSO, ignore the contract, take a look at ALL of the information on GT, and it looks like the execs rode a huge pump-and-dump ring . . . but hey, Apple, so fuck the truth.

  64. They gambled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and lost.

  65. If I recall, they needed a large loan by publiclurker · · Score: 1

    to buy the new equipment, which Apple provided. I wouldn't be surprised if they would only agree to loan enough money for the minimal amount of redundancy required.

  66. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

    My guess is that at some point Apple decided the new manufacturing technology was unlikely to work in their timescale, and was not going to make its plans dependent on it (I imagine this was shortly before it backed out of acquiring the manufacturing equipment.) At this point, GT became the party desperately seeking a deal, and Apple effectively said 'show us, and we will consider it.'

  67. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

    This isn't uncommon in industry (it's also not the normal way of things). If we want to to be certain that a supplier builds something the right way, we might specify every detail of the tooling, and sometimes buy it and install it ourselves.

    I think the fact that Apple did not indicates that it did not think there was much chance of success, and was not, by then, expecting (or even much hoping) to ship with a sapphire screen.

  68. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reminds me of coverage of deals Walmart entered into with many suppliers in its history where they become the vast majority of some vendors products then finds a cheaper source and leaves them screwed over from expansion costs with no place to sell their new manufacturing capacity.

  69. You still aren't getting it. by Brannon · · Score: 1

    It's not that "at least the original iPhone had the Gorilla Glass"--it's that "Gorilla Glass exists *because of* the original iPhone". Other phones have Gorilla Glass because they copied the iPhone. Every single iPhone version has had the latest and greatest version of Gorilla Glass (of which there have been several iterations). This is all pretty common knowledge.

    I have no idea why your personal experience is different. Possibly it's because in your area there are a lot more iPhone users than Samsung Galaxy users (e.g., in the US there are 1.5x as many iPhone users as Samsung Galaxy users).

    I've carried an iPhone for 7 years and have never scratched the screen--by your scientific method I guess that proves that iPhones are unscratchable.

  70. Re:Then don't sign the contract by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    reminds me of coverage of deals Walmart entered into with many suppliers in its history where they become the vast majority of some vendors products then finds a cheaper source and leaves them screwed over from expansion costs with no place to sell their new manufacturing capacity.

    Coincidentally, this is broadly similar to something I already mentioned elsewhere in this thread!

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).