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Taxi Medallion Prices Plummet Under Pressure From Uber

HughPickens.com writes Most major American cities have long used a system to limit the number of operating taxicabs, typically a medallion system: Drivers must own or rent a medallion to operate a taxi, and the city issues a fixed number of them. Now Josh Barro reports at the NYT that in major cities throughout the United States, taxi medallion prices are tumbling as taxis face competition from car-service apps like Uber and Lyft. The average price of an individual New York City taxi medallion fell to $872,000 in October, down 17 percent from a peak reached in the spring of 2013, according to an analysis of sales data. "I'm already at peace with the idea that I'm going to go bankrupt," said Larry Ionescu, who owns 98 Chicago taxi medallions. As recently as April, Boston taxi medallions were selling for $700,000. The last sale, in October, was for $561,000. "Right now Uber has a strong presence here in Boston, and that's having a dramatic impact on the taxi industry and the medallion values," says Donna Blythe-Shaw, a spokeswoman for the Boston Taxi Drivers' Association. "We hear that there's a couple of medallion owners that have offered to sell at 425 and nobody's touched them."

The current structure of the American taxi industry began in New York City when "taxi medallions" were introduced in the 1930s. Taxis were extremely popular in the city, and the government realized they needed to make sure drivers weren't psychopaths luring victims into their cars. So, New York City required cabbies to apply for a taxi medallion license. Given the technology available in the 1930s, It was a reasonable solution to the taxi safety problem, and other cities soon followed suit. But their scarcity has made taxi medallions the best investment in America for years. Where they exist, taxi medallions have outperformed even the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index. In Chicago, their value has doubled since 2009. The medallion stakeholders are many and deep pockets run this market. The system in Chicago and elsewhere is dominated by large investors who rely on brokers to sell medallions, specialty banks to finance them and middle men to manage and lease them to drivers who own nothing at all. Together, they're fighting to protect an asset that was worth about $2.4 billion in Chicago last year. "The medallion owners seem to be of the opinion that they are entitled to indefinite appreciation of their asset," says Corey Owens, Uber's head of global public policy.. "The taxi medallion in the U.S. was the best investment you could have made in the last 30 years. Will it go up forever? No. And if they expected that it would, that was their mistake."

48 of 329 comments (clear)

  1. The lesson by killkillkill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't invest in and artificially scarce commodity.

    1. Re:The lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm selling mine and buying something safe, like diamonds.

    2. Re:The lesson by fafaforza · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's risk to investing in anything. Maybe the real lesson is don't bet your entire financial life on one investment vehicle (no pun intended).

    3. Re:The lesson by popo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely correct. The Medallion business was artificial scarcity, protected by insiders.

      But on a broader scale the problem is that the world is awash in surplus capacity at every turn. Automation and robotics are compounding that problem at an exponentially increasing rate.

      Ultimately we have too much labor and too much capacity to produce -- everywhere. This is a conundrum for economic models which require scarcity. We weren't supposed to have too much food, too much energy or too much labor. Demand was supposed to increase at a constant rate ...but of course we juiced the world with credit and now we've built productive capacity and availability that cannot possibly be met with demand. We are surrounded by business models and prices which are conceptual remnants of earlier eras when capacity was restricted. These models can only ever be preserved through artificial means, because given a natural, free-market dynamic, competition and automation drive prices south.

      So it's not just medallions that are priced at unsustainable levels. Its nearly everything that's artificially overpriced. And that includes us.

      --
      ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
    4. Re:The lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Absolutely correct. The Medallion business was artificial scarcity, protected by insiders.

      It wasn't just "insiders". There's been profound corruption at every level of the taxi industry, from hiring illegal immigrant drivers, to refusing or ignoring background checks, to fraud about accidents, to bribery in selling or releasing medallions. There is no "merit" in the medallion sales industry in most cities: the price is ridiolously out of the reach of small businesses, and it enforces a monopoly or cartel for cab services in most major cities.

    5. Re: The lesson by gnupun · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uber cars can't be flagged down, I think that's the distinction they are relying on.

      That's the only difference, albeit just a technicality. Old-school taxis can be flagged down by waving your arm or calling their cell phone, whereas Uber taxis are flagged down by sending a "flag taxi" message over the Internet. I don't see much difference between the two, other than the internet flag down can be used to flag down a taxi at a much longer distance than can be done by waving your arm.

      Uber is still like a regular taxi: both are used for inter-city personal transport and the fares are similar. So why does uber get to go beyond the fixed taxi quota?

    6. Re:The lesson by geoskd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the law was intended to prevent psychos from driving taxis, why are medallions limited in number, and what prevents a rich psycho from buying one?

      What the makers of laws intend, and what actually result from the laws as written, rarely overlap.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    7. Re: The lesson by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      Economics. Drivers don't go out when they can't make any money. Painful way to limit capacity, but it will happen eventually.

    8. Re:The lesson by nateman1352 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't invest in and artificially scarce commodity.

      You mean Bitcoin?

      I know I'm going to be modded down, but it had to be said.

    9. Re:The lesson by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Kidnappers should go to jail. For quite a long time, IMHO. However, if they've completed their sentences (presuming they are completable... actual life sentences, well, there you go) and they are walking around free, they should have the same rights you have.

      This retribution-based mania to punish everyone forever does not serve us well at all. I can think of quite a few situations where it will do us real harm. Generally speaking, when you take the prospect of rehabilitation from a person, you have no reason to expect rehabilitation. Ever. Creating a disadvantaged, permanently held-to-the-bottom-rung underclass from those who have had run-ins with the legal system is exactly the wrong thing to do.

      Without hope, all it takes is one spark to set that particular fire ablaze. I honestly expect to read about that spark in the news any day now.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    10. Re:The lesson by Brymouse · · Score: 2

      Have you considered Machine Guns?

      Best profit I ever made, bought a registered sear (legally a machine gun, but just a small hunk of metal) for $3500 in 2004. Sold it in 2011 for $13000.

      I'd still like to see the NFA declared unconstitutional though.

    11. Re: The lesson by jcr · · Score: 2

      Taxi medallions exist to keep the streets free of excess taxis clogging up the road near attractions

      BULLSHIT.

      Taxi medallions exist to restrict competition, to the benefit of the cab cartels and the detriment of the public.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  2. Why are medallions sold and not leased? by tepples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why are medallions even sold as an asset, instead of leased from the city government? It just creates a vehicle for private rent-seeking and speculation. Some Slashdot users have tried to answer this in comments to earlier stories about Uber by treating a medallion as a share of the city's curbside "real estate". I can sort of see this, but why isn't it taxed like any other commercial real estate?

    1. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps they are leased in some cities, but in NYC there are million dollar inheritance fights over who gets the medallion.

    2. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by KillAllNazis · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Why are medallions even sold as an asset, instead of leased from the city government? It just creates a vehicle for private rent-seeking and speculation." Question asked, question answered.

    3. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by lgw · · Score: 2

      Why are medallions even sold as an asset, instead of leased from the city government? It just creates a vehicle for private rent-seeking and speculation

      Rent-seeking by the government is no better!

      Business monopolies can fail over time, and given time for the management to change, usually do (look at MS's works, ye mighty, and despair). But government-granted monopolies have lasted for centuries in the past.

      Keep government in the business of regulating product quality and fraud, and out of the business of creating monopolies. A commercial driver's license is a great idea, and it the right answer to the "Uber problem". Artificial scarcity for government profit is not.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by PPH · · Score: 5, Insightful

      cities could just stop going after Uber and make them pay a "medallion tax"

      Except then Uber drivers wouldn't be part time, "picking people up whenever they happen to be going that way" type service. They would have to work and earn enough for the medallion mortgage/rental. And as they become ful time drivers, the service will become indestinguishable from a taxi service.

      Better solution: Do away with medallions as a tradable asset and move to a permit system. Have insurance, maintain your car and not have a criminal record and for a fee sufficient only to cover the program cost, you get your permit.

      The medallion system was intended to limit the number of cabs on the road. Before it was put into place, everyone with an old beater could hire out as a taxi service. The roads were jammed and the prices were cutthroat (and some drivers as well). A permit system won't fix this problem directly. But by holding minimum standards up, it can serve to keep some of the low budget/low quality cabs off the road.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      The question you're responding to asks why they aren't leased from the city.

      The summary you cited without reading says they're leased from speculators via middlemen to drivers.

      0/2

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      It's exceptionally easy to prevent this kind of aftermarket. Make every leased medallion PERSONAL.

      I.e. only the owner of the lease can use it. If he can't, lease expires and is granted to another driver.

      All this requires is a desire to control destructive potential of free market capitalism, ensuring fair competition instead.

    7. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by gunnnnslinger · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And as they become ful time drivers, the service will become indestinguishable from a taxi service.

      Uber already IS indistinguishable from a taxi service, with the single exception that they don't pick up flags (which makes no difference all but large metro markets). Nearly ALL Uber drivers work 8-12 hour shifts in vehicles they bought (or lease from uber at usury rates, between 1k-2k a month) specifically to drive for Uber.

      Uber has succeeded in remaking the cab market and externalizing all equipment costs and liability to the drivers, all while actually even paying them (unbelievably) less than the chicken-scratch cab drivers already make, and all the while pretending they do something different than charge money for a ride somewhere. Many drivers are making 3-4 dollars an hour after vehicle maintenance, depreciation, taxes, water and snacks for passengers, and Uber's 20% and assorted fees.. The new standard on the 'Pay' on the Uber driver forums is drivers making less than the IRS per-mile exemption rate of 40 something cents a mile. And UberX is actually more expensive (at base rate, non-surge) than every single cab company in my town of 250k.

      I've driven cab (three years now) and for Uber (recently for a month), and I will never drive for Uber again. Aside from the fact that a single poor rating from a drunk moron that I refuse to let bring a sloshing open tallboy in my car can deactivate me, driving for UberX is working for free (and I wasn't even on the hook for a car payment or lease). Most people aren't figuring this out until after they drive for a few months and quit, but by then Uber has lured in a new crop of suckers with spammed craigslist ads promising '45-90k in your spare time'. I hope Uber does replace taxis and become the only show in town, just so I can watch all the fucking Uber evangelists start bitching about how Uber actually became MUCH WORSE (already happening) than the taxi companies they replaced.

      I'm sure I'll get flamed for writing this as a driver, but the simple fact of the matter is that Uber had a chance to make improvements over the current system for drivers and riders, and it colossally blew it by choosing to be absurdly greedy and shady. It temporarily improved service for riders in large medallion based markets, but has shown overall that they don't give a fuck about passengers or drivers, and I guarantee you, I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you, in 2-3 years, it will be far worse than what it replaces.

    8. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by spire3661 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hold on. Why 'no criminal record'? Does that include ALL crimes? What happened to 'hes paid his debt to society'?

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      No, many of us actually know what socialism is because we happen to be living in socialist countries with functioning free market capitalism.

      You on the other hand are talking gibberish, which is often popular among certain libertarian circles that like to confuse "socialism" with "government regulation".

    10. Re: Why are medallions sold and not leased? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nice try, but you don't get to call something socialism just because the outcome is something that you don't like. Capitalism is always, 100% of the time, about trying to restrict or eliminate competition if it is in any way possible to do so. If the resource in question is not scarce, a capitalist will try to make it scarce. That's what is going on here.

      I concur that this particular sort of thing is not free market behavior. But it is not socialism. This is crony capitalism. It is regulatory capture. The elimination of competition by any means necessary, including government regulation done against the interest of the people the government is supposed to work for is the ultimate goal of a capitalist.

    11. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by Kohath · · Score: 2

      The roads were jammed and the prices were cutthroat

      That's a really negative way to say everyone who wanted to hire a driver could do so easily and inexpensively.

    12. Re:Why are medallions sold and not leased? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 2

      I'm sure I'll get flamed for writing this as a driver

      I won't flame you, but I would suggest being a taxi driver might motivate you to write a little FUD. Obviously, the existence of Uber is a serious threat to the status quo with taxi drivers. In fact this whole article is about how much owners of these medallions have to lose. Please bare with me a moment while I question something here...

      You say...

      Uber has succeeded in remaking the cab market and externalizing all equipment costs and liability to the drivers, all while actually even paying them (unbelievably) less than the chicken-scratch cab drivers already make, and all the while pretending they do something different than charge money for a ride somewhere. Many drivers are making 3-4 dollars an hour after vehicle maintenance, depreciation, taxes, water and snacks for passengers, and Uber's 20% and assorted fees.

      .

      If it was as bad as you say, nobody would drive for Uber. Yes, their fare is going to be lower than a typical taxi, and Uber gets their cut, but on the other hand, they don't have to pay a hefty "Medallion Rent". See this paragraph I lifted from a comment by LGW below...

      .

      You do realize many/most taxi drivers are part time, right? The normal system in most places means only the most successful drivers actually own a taxi. The rest rent by car by the calendar day, and pay a hefty sum for that. The result is it's normal to try to stay awake for as much of that 48 hours as possible, as it takes many hours of driving just to cover the fixed daily cost of the taxi, then sleep for a day or two, then repeat. This is not a system geared towards safety!

      .

      Does an Uber driver have to suffer like that? I doubt it.

  3. Bubble by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It sounds to me that even without Uber, the taxi system was poised on the point of a precipice. The Taxi industry is not a stock market and treating it like one is not sustainable.
    Also for a long time this system has be renowned for only attracting the sketchiest drivers, so it obviously was not working at all.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  4. Some people never learn. by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

    "I'm already at peace with the idea that I'm going to go bankrupt," said Larry Ionescu, who owns 98 Chicago taxi medallions.

    WTF? Either he doesn't really own 100 medallions (and his bank does), or he considers having "only" 30 M$ the same as being bankrupt.

    He reminds of a scene from "The Queen of Versailles" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2125666/). Some 50 year old lady was complaining that last year "she owned 10 multi-million-dollar houses", and that now, she hasn't anything left.

    1. Re:Some people never learn. by Shados · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. Its a little like being a landlord (which is probably your example, I didn't see it).

      There's statistics depending on the city, where renting out a place is always 10-15% profit over the expenses of owning and maintaining a property. Also, if you go to a bank with a reasonable income and buy a property that already has a tenant, getting financing is reasonably easy.

      That basically means that theoretically, over a reasonable period of time, you could buy an infinite amount of small properties, use the money from one to fund the next, quickly make enough to hire a super to maintain the properties for you, and basically have free, infinite income.

      But the world doesn't work that way, does it? Anything easy is a race to zero. Yet there's still a 10-15% profit on being a landlord (not even counting the property value going up by the time you sell) Why?

      Oh right, the "work" here is the risk taking. You could be getting a tenant that doesn't pay and be stuck trying to evict them (extremely hard in some states) and foreclose on the spot. A street gang could open up shop next door and the police has trouble getting them out and your neighborhood goes to hell. A contractor could get a permit to build a high-rise across the the street. City taxes could go up faster than rent does.

      And thus, I know a lot of people who tried to become landlords and ended up in financial trouble. That risk is what you accept to get an easy real estate profit.

      This is the same thing. Medallions were easy profit because not everyone thought so, else they'd have been a race to zero too. And thus, the risk manifested itself.

    2. Re:Some people never learn. by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      I think like everyone else his debts are a big percentage of his assets. So if his assets fall below a threshold he will owe more than his is worth. Normal people have something like 100-120% debts/assets, while rich people might have something closer to 60%-80%. They would all pretty much universally go bankrupt if their assets decreased in value anywhere close to 50%.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  5. Why no taxi company's app? by honestmonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm at a loss to understand why the taxi companies don't come up with their own app. They could legitimately claim that their drivers are not crazy wackos that drive run-down Chevy Vegas or something. I mean, the slogan for Uber and Lyft is "normal people in their crappy cars swinging by if they can", right? I rarely take cabs, and don't think I'd ever call Uber. It seems to me taxi regulation is a good thing. We don't let just any joker with a subway train to ride down the rails picking people up when he feels like it. Don't you want to be sure that the car you get it is maintained, driver vouched for and accountable to someone, the cost calculated and constant? It's all bizarre to me.

    Now you kids over there, off my lawn!

    --
    Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
    1. Re:Why no taxi company's app? by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This. The taxi companies are all focused on the fact Uber and Lyft are working without regulations as if that was the reason for their success. Yes, having lower prices most certainly makes them more attractive, but that's not all of it. Getting a taxi is a terrible experience. If you're lucky, you can hail one, but if you need to call one up... Enjoy waiting for any amount of time between 30 seconds and an hour, the taxi never reaching you, you having no idea where they are, the taxi arriving as a tiny Yaris when you specifically asked for a large car because you have luggage, etc.

      One of the big deals about Uber for me is that their app and infrastructure makes the taxi companies look like pathetic dinosaurs. Calling a lift is easy, you can track their position in real time, if something goes wrong or if they're not responsive you can deal with that, you can pay through the app... It's just a much better user experience. Taxi companies probably never even heard of the term, and they're looking extremely stupid for it.

    2. Re:Why no taxi company's app? by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I understand the need for regulations. e.g. to be sure that the meters are checked and legit and that the cars are safe and the driver has a legitimate drivers licence.

      However that is not what the medailions are about anymore. What should have been done is get rid of the medailions and give out licences with a specific set of rules that is not limited by numbers.

      Safe car, medical test for the driver (e.g. eye sight), check on the meter, technical test of the car every X months, ...

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Why no taxi company's app? by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    4. Re:Why no taxi company's app? by artfulshrapnel · · Score: 2

      They're not stupid, they just have different goals.

      The taxi companies are owned by the people who have invested in medallions. They want their medallions to increase in value and be able to rent them out for large sums, which means they want there to be a scarcity of taxis and no competition. If their drivers make less money, the owners have to charge less to lease a medallion, they make much less regular income, and the value of the medallion itself decreases as well.

      Things like investing in a software architecture to deal with ride-sharing style payment/ordering/tracking would eat into those profits on a huge scale, so it would be counter-productive to their goals.

  6. Shall we shed tears by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that a fundamentally corrupt system is taking a little pain? They aren't even close to the woodshed yet.

    There is no reason for medallions to exist any longer. The very easy solution to this is a) require a different class license for hired (hailed or called) car drivers and b) require the use of special plates (many already require a TX- type plate). I'm not even sure a uniform color is really "required" given the presense of the "taxi (un)occupied" roof top display though at this point I think yellow (at least in NYC) is so ingrained it may be a disadvantage to differentiate a hailed car.

    Shockingly, the first two of my requirements already exist in most places. So again, why are we still dealing in the corrupt medallion business?

  7. Re:Follow the money? by bsa3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The medallion owners, and they show their appreciation to the city government in an appropriate fashion.

    Same reason they don't allow some stores (in the US, typically liquor stores or car dealers) to open on Sundays. It's all about protecting the incumbents from a new entrant who wants to increase their market share and doesn't mind that the existing businesses would have to start caring about their customers.

  8. Both cause and effect of Uber success by iamacat · · Score: 4, Informative

    Demand for rides is highly variable depending on tourist season, holidays, weather and sports. Medallions can not scale to maximum demand while also allowing for affordable prices throughout the year. Everyone knows that trying to catch a taxi in NY is an unreliable nightmare and one should always have a backup transportation plan.

    It's too bad really, as regulation is badly needed for companies like Lyft and Uber. Ideally, DMV would require a second, stricter written and road tests for people who are going to drive for money. Then points would be subtracted from driving record for both traffic violations and run ins with the law, including cheating on the fare. We need to try to prevent psycopaths from picking up passengers, but not with an an onerous system based on scarcity.

    1. Re:Both cause and effect of Uber success by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      KORBEN
      (sighs)
      I don't need one.

      FINGER (V.O.)
      You forgetting who sat next to you for
      a thousand missions.
      I know how you drive.

      KORBEN
      Finger! I'm driving a cab now, not a
      space fighter!!

      FINGER (V.O.)
      How many points you got left on your
      license?

      KORBEN
              (lying)
      Uh... at least fifty.

      FINGER (V.O.)
      In your dreams! See you tonight!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  9. Re:And In Other News... by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

    Who said anything about $1m per year. You buy a medallion, you drive the taxi for x years, you sell the medallion (Or you lease / work for someone with a medallion etc).

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  10. /. summary is becoming an article by AchilleTalon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems the summary is a lost art here. At near 450 words, this is no longer a summary. Please /. if you cannot summarize the subject within a single paragraph with a few links forget it. There is no need to make the summary a thesis.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
  11. Re:Make it like license plates by lgw · · Score: 2

    If there's no artificial scarcity, then no it's not a monopoly, but then what purpose do the medallions serve? You do realize that Uber started with all full-time drivers, right? Real-time dispatch of "livery service" cars: the drivers are permitted just like taxi drivers, but the cars (usually Towncars) aren't technically taxis.

    I'm all for a "chauffer's license" (as its called in many states): a specific commercial drivers license required to drive others for money, taxi or no.

    You do realize many/most taxi drivers are part time, right? The normal system in most places means only the most successful drivers actually own a taxi. The rest rent by car by the calendar day, and pay a hefty sum for that. The result is it's normal to try to stay awake for as much of that 48 hours as possible, as it takes many hours of driving just to cover the fixed daily cost of the taxi, then sleep for a day or two, then repeat. This is not a system geared towards safety!

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  12. Re:$800k? by SydShamino · · Score: 2

    Over 45 years? Especially if driven by two different family members on different shifts? 16 hours a day times 6 days a week times 52 weeks a year times 45 years is about 225,000 hours. I suspect taxis can make far more than $4 an hour, enough to cover gas, vehicle maintenance/repair/replacement, a financed medallion payment, and a meager living for the family.

    This assumes it's a family medallion. The ones sold today for that much are rented to the drivers and operated 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  13. Medallion system should never have existed by loonycyborg · · Score: 2

    Hundred of thousands dollars for mere right to operate a taxi car is nonsense. Anyone who has such money has better things to do, like lending it to others. Such lenders are rentier and don't contribute useful work to society. It DOES make sense to test possible taxi drivers wrt safety concerns but medallion system doesn't achieve this goal. You can lend them to anyone and they can be inherited. Thus absolutely anyone can end up having one.

  14. It was always about limiting competition by DavidinAla · · Score: 3

    It's hilarious that the summary of this story uncritically accepts that the origin of taxi medallions was about "public safety." This is a lie and it's always been a lie. The system was about limiting competition. Pure and simple. The people in the industry want fewer people competing, because there's more profit for them. They made friends with the right politicians, who then introduced the system and controlled how the industry was "regulated." I put that word in quotes because it wasn't regulated in the sense that people believe. It was regulated to avoid competitors hurting incumbents operators. This is the way pretty much all regulation really works. (Look up "regulatory capture" if you're interested in how it works.) There is no legitimate reason to control the number of taxis. Period. I don't even see a valid reason to license them, but if it were about safety, licenses would be available to anyone who could meet certain safety and insurance requirements. I don't have much sympathy for the owners of the current medallions. They've had a government-granted license to print money, which is why these medallions have had value. It's time to let the market take over. The medallion system needs to die.

  15. If we followed all such laws (Re:The lesson) by mi · · Score: 2

    It's more like Uber proved that a few billion makes you above the law.

    If we followed such "laws", you'd still have to use pay-phones instead of the cellular one in your pocket. And your car's speed would've remained limited to 4mph and you'd have to pay someone to walk in front of it with a red flag — or keep using a horse-drawn carriage.

    But you are even more thoroughly full of it — because, though Uber may have a few billion, it is not Uber but rather the drivers, who sign up with them, that are breaking these local ordinances. None of them are billionaires.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  16. Re:Make it like license plates by lgw · · Score: 2

    Expirable taxi licenses, granted by the government to anyone who passes a test and pays a fee would be government regulation and a part of the price of doing business.
    The cost of the process would be transferred to the customers while the benefit would be reaped by both the customers, small business owners and in part general public through the ensured qualities of the drivers and their abilities which would be determined by the administered test.

    And in many places that's exactly how it works! Taxis, Towncars, and limos all have the same sticker. But the sticker on the car has nothing at all to do with the quality of the driver. People keep not getting this in these Uber discussions. Taxis are only very rarely owned by their drivers - the drivers rent them by the day from the taxi company. The assurance of product quality you get from anything attached to the car is limited (especially if it's a medallion you can move form car to car - tat adds no value at all).

    Special licensing for the drivers seems much more useful, and is already in place separate from "medallions" everywhere I've heard of. It's the drivers license to focus on, not some BS revenue scheme for the cars.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  17. Re:Mod the parent up! by amxcoder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bull Crap! I don't taxi much, but I have on occassion when on vacation, and I don't think I've ever had a taxi ride under $15.

    Let's see, I took a cab from my house to SF once, a total of about 12 miles and the ride cost me about $90 (plus I had to pay for the bridge fare).

    I recently took a cab in the LA area from the Airport to a person's house only a couple miles away, and it was about $50 dollars. I was charged about $7 right off the top just for the fact that the ride started at the airport.

    I took another cab in Seattle this past year, from our hotel near the airport to the cruise terminal and the fee was about $80 at least.

    The closest I've come to getting charged what you said was in Las Vegas that was only a mile or two and it was $15. After finding out how short of drive it was, my wife and I walked back instead of catching the cab.

    Don't know where the heck your riding cabs for $10 (with the tip included), but in my little cab'ing experience, I've never found one. I think they'd charge you that much for driving to the end of the block. Most cabs I've seen charge you a couple bucks before leaving the curb and to start the meter.

  18. For all the flack we goo about forbidding uber... by aepervius · · Score: 4, Informative

    You know, people were panning germany for forbidding uber. But we do not have (as far as I can tell) a "medaillon" limit. All you need to be a legal taxi is :
    * make a "taxischein" (driver license allowing you to transport people)
    * Have insurance which allow commercial transportation of people
    * Have a metered reader which the government checks ("geeicht")
    None of which is an artificial scarcity like the medaillon mentionned.



    And yet what do we see in the article here ? Artificial limitation in the country of the "free market" which are even worst than in Germany.

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