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Forbes Revisits the Surface Pro 3, Which May Face LG Competition
Forbes writer Marco Chiappetta revisits Microsoft's Surface Pro 3 half a year after its U.S. debut, and finds the tablet-laptop hybrid has held up pretty well, but suffers some dings worth knowing about before jumping at holiday sale prices, pointing out a number of scenarios where a full-fledged notebook, even if it’s roughly the same size, will be the better choice. I’ve found that the Surface Pro 3 is ideal for users that will likely fire the machine up when sitting at a desk or when in a conference room-type environment that has a table. The Surface Pro 3’s performance is plenty good for everyday computing and office applications, and the screen is top notch. Using the Surface Pro 3 as a notepad with its stylus is also very useful. In fact, over the course of the device’s life, Microsoft has issued a number of firmware, driver, and OS updates that have improved the overall responsiveness and usefulness of the Surface Pro 3. For those who want a laptop, though for actual laptop use, the Surface is an awkward fit. However, a thin, tablet-convertible, touchscreen laptop may appear soon from LG, as well.
can this thing be hacked or are you locked in to the OS it comes with?
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Toilet. He means the kickstand is no good when using it on the toilet.
It's a ticket for a carnival game of chance.
If any part of the Surface breaks or breaks down; it's trash. There's no fixing it.Disposable as a Bic lighter.
You know, I've seen the same sort of promotional model used by the music industry;
Pay industry publications/writers to fain interest in your product and turn up the valve on the hyperbole faucet, then throw some money at advertising and see if it sells a hit song. If not, fire some flunkys and go on the the next product-du-jour.
It's time to call Purina and not the ASPCA; the horse has been beaten to death...
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Is that Windows display scaling is unsatisfactory. Either I can read the screen and the display is too small or the display is so high resolution and has enough real estate but I can't read anything.
I'm not sure the larger screen of the 3 makes this any better. Maybe a little, but from the one I've seen it seems to suffer from a similar problem.
And the worst part is that display scaling seems broken in some way that causes it to scale external displays, making a laptop/desktop two display setup obnoxious.
The whole point for many people in getting the Surface Pro is its Wacom digitizer, which is where the majority of its additional cost is coming from. To compare that to the LG is just completely missing the point -- it's basically saying that capacitive pens are just as good as Wacom tech.
The quality of posts on Slashdot has really crashed in recent years but those on this story really are the very bottom of the barrel.
Not so much news for nerds any more, more like the ramblings of the under-educated and over-opinionated.
I could feel the loss of IQ points from just reading their drivel
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
This is about the SP3 not the SP2 and the article addresses the question of display scaling.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
It's like a Surface Pro 3 but cheaper and the price includes a keyboard / mouse / port replicator / speaker / stand to sit the tablet in. I find it very useful for holidays / travel etc. because it's a PC when I want it to be and a tablet when I need something simpler.
The SP3 doesn't use a Wacom digitiser... it uses one from N-Trig.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
It was posted by timothy: he's always been a provider of shit content.
The precipitous fall in the quality of user-posts is more recent and the main reason I rarely bother even visiting /. any more.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
I've seen it used mostly by people who used to carry around laptops to meetings, then switched to iPads. They replaced their iPads with this because it has a slightly better keyboard, and allows them to actually use Outlook (so they can schedule more meetings with shared calendars) or Project. I've seen a few IT managers carry it around because they can RDP into servers (they can use the VPN client that we use -- the iPad doesn't have the SSL-VPN software).
People don't use it for real work. They seem to be using it as fancy toys they bring to meetings. All the people I know who have one still have a real laptop, and still have a desktop.
October 31, 2014, via the Motley Fool:
It would do you well to source timely things, sir.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
This. I won't buy, nor install software from, software developers who won't get their software right the first time, every time. If you need to release updates, clearly you've released your product before it was ready.
That's why I don't use any operating system, made by anyone, ever.
I'm having trouble understanding what the point of this product is. What useful niche does it fill?
In a fully managed enterprise environment, using OneNote to take handwritten notes in meetings - including creating quick To-Dos to send to Outlook, using handwriting to mark up Excel, Word, or PowerPoint files stored on a collaboration server so everyone's changes are synchronized, then go back to your desk and dock it so you have a full keyboard, mouse, external monitors (I have two), auto-switch from corporate WiFi to corporate LAN without losing mapped drives. In the enterprise space its competition is likely a Lenovo Helix model, not a Miix. For home users, it's probably overkill, unless maybe you do a lot of docking-and-undocking at home, but that's likely a niche market.
But if your company, like mine, allows a certain degree of personal use of the corporate device and allows you to take it home evenings and weekends, it's a lot lighter to carry and more fun to use than a traditional laptop. It's my laptop at work and my tablet at home (and yes, I know how to encrypt and back up my personal data in case my job suddenly disappears, and I still have a home PC as a second unit). It's the most satisfying and seamless personal computing experience I've ever had, and I've been in the business since the 1980's. This feels like the computer I've been waiting for all my life.
--
.nosig
I don't know the data, but I am curious if surface is profitable as in 'xbox profitable' (i.e. profitable, but not enough to offset the preceding losses), or has offset the losses in the previous quarters. Last I saw xbox descended back into losses without ever making more money than it had lost.
I still consider Nokia and Surface a bad business move. Microsoft doing a bad job of reading the market reality. Microsoft previously demolished Apple through a strong competitive ecosystem. Now Apple has pulled a surprise comeback of building a premium brand, but by volume they are losing out more and more to Google, which is winning share through the same maneuver of strong ecosystem rather than single vendor. Microsoft has a proven history of doing what Google is doing business-wise and it continues to prove itself to be the stronger strategy. Instead Microsoft loses itself chasing Apple and alienates those valuables partners by competing with them. Microsoft shouldn't be in the hardware business, period.
I used a Surface Pro 3 for about a week before deciding to return it. I took it back because it didn't quite fit my needs, and I found it to be just an awkward device.
I had mostly hoped to replace an aging Macbook Pro and have a mobile sketchpad. The device works well as a laptop, although I found it tiresome to have to extend the kickstand every time as opposed to just opening a laptop lid. I did not find it a good device for sketching; the interface in Photoshop CS5 (my usual painting program) was absolutely tiny and a pain to navigate around in with the stylus. You often have to switch between the brush, zoom, pan, and layers menus while working in Photoshop, and it quickly became clear that this setup wasn't going to work. This isn't a failure on Microsoft's part, just evidence that mobile sketching either needs to be on a dedicated app - such as the included OneNote (not quite up to snuff) - or on some old tried-and-true pen and paper.
That said, it is incredible what sort of power they've managed to pack into such a thin device. I just think the whole "jack of all trades, master of none" schtick is the wrong route to take.
Ordinarily, your comment would be uninformed bullshit. Every software has bugs.
In this case, though, by coincidence, it did have some serious problems with Wi-Fi drivers. However, that seems to be a growing trend everywhere.
I blame Wi-Fi adapter vendors and their shitty drivers.
the ipad is for CONSUMING content
the surface is for CREATING content.
get it, bro?
I have a Surface 2 that I tried using for a bit (got it from work) and it sucks, badly. The mouse design is horrible, you can barely see it. A coworker has been testing the 3 Pro for a while as a desktop replacement with the ability to quickly take the tablet/laptop thing and go on the road. He likes it, but he's got a full set up, docking station, etc.
I've had the Dell XPS 12 for almost two years and LOVE it for taking it to meetings and customers at work. Taking notes with OneNote is so easy and the touch screen make it really nice to use. I rarely if ever use the tablet feature. A nice thing about it vs. my iPad is that I can put it on my lap while on the couch at home and browse the web with touch with ONE HAND. iPad requires a stand or two hands and it's just uncomfortable for me.
A few months ago I got just an UltraBook with a 15 inch screen so I could program and work on servers better. It's a Dell Precision M3800 meant to compete with a MacBook but it was Windows 8.1 and touch. It's the best device I've ever had, hands down. Light, beautiful in design and screen, great mouse, touch works great. It's not trying to be a tablet/hybrid thing. It's just a great UltraBook. Don't get me wrong, I love my iDevices too (we have lots of them at home), but for work UltraBooks rock.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
In a fully managed enterprise environment, using OneNote to take handwritten notes in meetings - including creating quick To-Dos to send to Outlook, using handwriting to mark up Excel, Word, or PowerPoint files stored on a collaboration server so everyone's changes are synchronized, then go back to your desk and dock it so you have a full keyboard, mouse, external monitors (I have two), auto-switch from corporate WiFi to corporate LAN without losing mapped drives.
Or you could take a laptop, and not have to do the work twice.
I've had the i7 512 Surface Pro 3 for several months now and I absolutely love it. I was worried about the hinge but it's lapability has no issues IMHO. The only problem I have is it simply doesn't work if I'm lying down in bed.
It's doubtful the LG will contend. I think the biggest threat is the Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro but at close to a pound heavier and inability to detach the keyboard increasing the thickness in tablet mode, I'll stick with my Surface Pro 3 thank you very much.
CrankyFool,
Someone who genuinely cares about Microsoft will want Microsoft to examine its behavior as a corporation. The recent release of Windows 8 got very bad press. For example: [Serious] Users of Windows 8, is it really as bad as everyone says it is?
Because Microsoft has a "virtual monopoly", Microsoft still sold many copies. Eventually, however, people will find a way to navigate around Microsoft's craziness. Here is just one of many, many examples. Quoting:
There is so much going on that screams the fact that they didn't have the average Joe sitting in a Microsoft UX lab doing simple tasks such as: "Shut down the system" or "Uninstall software you haven't used in a while" and so much more.
'They tried to force a revolutionary new UI onto the mainstream users. And I love their design, I really do, but it simply doesn't offer any benefits to daily power users such as myself. On the contrary, it annoys me because it has such potential, and they implemented a half-decent version of what it could and should be.
I think that because I attempt to understand Microsoft, I am more caring toward the company than those who merely make negative comments about criticism of Microsoft.
As I said in my grandparent comment, Microsoft has been releasing unfinished products for many years: "... they implemented a half-decent version of what it could and should be." That abusive behavior makes a huge amount of money because there are so many non-technical users who don't know how to defend themselves.
Now Google's Android, a derivative of Linux, is beginning to take people away from Microsoft's operating system products.
That's funny, I didn't realize that programs such as Autocad, Autodesk Sketchbook, Pixelmator, Adobe Lightroom, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Pinnacle Studio, etc. were for consuming content. They seem to be for creating content to me. That isn't even scratching the surface of all the content creation apps that exist for iOS.
laptops are really poor for handwritten notes and extremely awkward in meetings. a Tablet though is perfect for meetings, but obviously sucks as a real work device. So really the choose is either 2 devices or one device that works pretty well in both environments but may not be outstanding in either. The small compromise for a huge amount of convenience is worth it to a lot of people.
Really? You can draw on your laptop with a digitizer? What kind of laptop is it? Hint: some people need pen input.
Really? You can draw on your laptop with a digitizer? What kind of laptop is it?
Dell Inspiron mini 1012 running Xubuntu, with a Wacom Bamboo Pen digitizer plugged into a USB port.
I recently started working with the Surface Pro 3 and it blows, hard. Microsoft makes the hardware, the drivers, and the operating system yet none of these things work properly. I ask myself why these things don't work properly, but then I remember who is behind it. I'm going to list a few of the issues I've run across so far, and I'm sure I'll find more.
I've had issues where the keyboard cover (which is made specifically for the surface) stops working for no reason. Device Manager says there's no driver installed, so you install a driver but Device Manager still says there's no driver even though there were no errors reported. The only fix was to "refresh" Windows, which means reinstalling windows on top of the other install and re-installing all your programs. Very time consuming for a device made for the Surface by the same company that should just work.
Doing regular driver updates stopped the Surface Dock ethernet from working. Again, I had to reinstall Windows. All I did was Windows Updates that came from you-know-who.
One of the firmware update drivers makes the firmware update device fail to start. Device Manager says to reboot to make it work and they provide you with a reboot button. You click the reboot button, your system starts rebooting, but then you get an error saying you can't reboot because the subwindows from Device Manager are open and need to be closed first! Why even give the user a reboot button if they're not allowed to click on it?
I also see the display weirdness that people complain about. Some fonts look super crisp and nice on it's high resolution display, but others are blurry and ugly. If you change the resolution and then VNC into the machine, your mouse cursor is actually in a different position on the device and you can't really click on anything.
I've had trouble booting Linux on them too, but maybe I've just been doing something wrong. This has stopped me from imaging the software installs.
I would never want a Surface for myself.
...and if you actually use any of those drafting/illustration programs to create content, you'll quickly see the advantages of an active digitizer in the Surface Pro 3 over the fat finger capacitive sensor in the iPad. I own both, and greatly prefer the Surface Pro 3. Hell, MS had to stop using the Wacom digitizer because Wacom didn't want to have their horribly overpriced Cintiq Companion sales absolutely destroyed by the Surface. That's why the SP3 uses the N-Trig Duosense 2 technology, which with the last major driver update is just as good as anything from Wacom (unless you NEED pen tilt support), so long as the program supports Wintab (most do).
Have you tried any of those apps on an ipad? They are really dumbed down and extremely frustrating to anyone that has experience with the full flegged versions of any of those packages. I got a keyboard and wireless mouse for my ipad (jailbroken of course for simultaneous use) and tried my darned best to make it replace my laptop with apps such as you described and all kinds of jailbreak hacks. It drove me to near madness always getting near what I wanted to accomplish done or getting it done with 5 extra steps each time. I switched to the surface 3 and have never looked back - it is so gratifying being able to run real software for content creation but being able to switch to tablet mode for consumption.
You have to keep in mind that Apple does not want you creating content on the ipad, thus it is not at all optimized for it. If you question this for a second, consider why in the world you would need to jailbreak the darn thing just to use a mouse and keyboard. Eventually the surface will force Apple to make a content capable tablet, and who knows, it could be better than M$'s. Until then, M$ has the most advanced and capable tablet currently in my mind.
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Wacom lowered the price of the Companion. I agree that originally it was overpriced, but now I think it's fair, which is why I bought the 256Gb model. It's the same price as a SPro 3. And before I ramble about the Companion, I agree with your assessment of the SPro 3 over the iPad.
Anyways, with the Companion it not only has support for tilt, but rotation via the Art Pen, 2048 levels pressure, and no need for batteries. There's also the option for of other pens, like the mentioned Art Pen -- which I bought; and each new stylus has its own unique ID, so in programs like Painter each one can be a completely different art-tool. The Companion also has programmable thumb buttons, which are really useful.
And for programs like Painter, tilt is absolutely essential and the same goes for rotation with some brushes. But I guess that depends on one's art style and preference of tools.
For my own needs, the Companion was worth every penny. It's more than met my needs and completely replaced my MacBook Pro + Cintiq 12wx. If it had not been made available though, I would have bought a Surface Pro.
Which means, that like most windows tablets and laptops, you can probably get another OS to boot, but it probably won't be pretty.
In theory, some distros of Linux have support for digitizers and touchscreens but the reality is, Microsoft is the only game in town when it comes to having a almost two decades of development into x86 tablets. Apple hardware running OS-X has never had digitizers or touch-screens built-in and Linux distros have done their best to cobble-together support for tablet-PCs into the interface and kernel over the years, but it is a sophomoric effort at best (still impressive considering it is free).
But I bet by the year 2030, the Linux will be the best operating system to run on a Surface Pro 3, like it is today with computers from 2000.
1. People who don't want to lug around two devices (the Surface Pro is an ultrabook and a tablet).
2. People who take notes with diagrams or mathematics, like students, researchers, engineers, et cetera (other than a few rather pricey Android tablets, the Surface Pro and its Windows-based brothers are the only tablets with digitizers).
3. People who want something like the Macbook air, only with better features for less money.
I mean, if all you want to do is surf porn on your couch while you watch football, then by all means, get an iPad, or better yet, a $300 Android tablet (better value for the money than an iPad). The Surface Pro is not a toy computer like the iPad or the Galaxy. It is a full-fat computer that happens to work pretty well as a tablet as well.
The market for a $2000 surface pro 3 running Windows and virtualizing Linux and loaded up with open source and professional software is very different than the market for a $400 iPad running iTunes and a bunch of entertainment apps for couch potatoes.
I've been a big believer in pen computing since reading Niven & Pournelle's _The Mote in God's Eye_ and using a Koala Pad graphics tablet attached to a Commodore 64 in high school.
Reasons I prefer tablets w/ a stylus:
- drawing
- note-taking
- annotation
- more efficient usage of some programs, esp. those which can be configured w/ pie menus or menu structures which can become gestural (Punch in Altsys Virtuoso was a gesture for me on my Wacom ArtZ graphics tablet attached to my NeXT Cube)
- lighter weight / smaller --- currently trying to ``upgrade'' to a ThinkPad x61 Tablet (convertible) from a Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4121 slate and the former won't fit in my old laptop bag.
Almost bought an Asus Vivotab Note 8, and would've bought the Microsoft Surface 2 from sales this past weekend, but didn't. Concerns I had:
- poor build quality for the Asus --- there's a DIY fix posted for the digitizer ceasing to work
- standard LCD, not daylight viewable
- the Surface 2 which was on sale was the RT model, so can't run Macromedia Freehand --- the Pro 2 was out-of-stock
I'd be sleeping on the couch tonight if someone would make a pen slate which:
- ran either Mac OS X or Windows --- or if there was a drawing program for Android as nice as Macromedia Freehand
- was a pen slate w/ a Wacom digitizer
- had a daylight-viewable display (transflective LCD or better) --- I use my machine as a map reader when traveling and to control my CNC mill on the back porch
- had a resolution higher than 1024 x 768 and was not much larger than a letter-sized notepad
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.