Apple's iPod Classic Refuses To Die

Nerval's Lobster writes A funny thing happened to the iPod Classic on its way to the dustbin of history: people seemed unwilling to actually give it up. Apple quietly removed the iPod Classic from its online storefront in early September, on the same day CEO Tim Cook revealed the latest iPhones and the upcoming Apple Watch. At 12 years old, the device was ancient by technology-industry standards, but its design was iconic, and a subset of diehard music fans seemed to appreciate its considerable storage capacity. At least some of those diehard fans are now paying four times the iPod Classic's original selling price for units still in the box. The blog 9to5Mac mentions Amazon selling some last-generation iPod Classics for $500 and above. Clearly, some people haven't gotten the memo that touch-screens and streaming music were supposed to be the way of the future.

Comments

Wrong conclusion

[O('_')O_Bush]

What will end up happening is that those $500 iPod Classics will stay in their boxes and be sold for $3k a few years down the road. Same kind of thing happened with old NES/Gameboy Games, etc. If they wanted a music player without a touch-screen, well, there are hundreds of those not made by Apple. The people that want these are hoarders and price manipulators.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

By using the terms "hoarder" and "price manipulator" you make it sound like there's something wrong with buying something then selling it for a higher price. It's called "profit" and is the basis for capitalism.

The proper term is "investor". Someone who takes an educated financial risk with the expectation of a profit at a later date. Some examples of things that investors can buy/sell include stocks, bonds, domain names, antique cars, property, etc.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

>

The proper term is "investor".

Wrong, the proper term is "speculator". An investor expects the investment to make a return for them through a growth in value. For example, they buy walmart stock because they feel that the company will continue to do business and thus give good returns through buy-backs, dividends, etc while balancing it against inflation, returns available from reliable investments (AKA US Gov Bonds), etc

A speculator buys something because he believes that it will go up in price without growth, that there is something wrong with the current pricing of the investment, or that an event will trigger a temporary price increase or decrease.

BTW, A good investor enters his investment for the reasons a good speculator goes in; the market price is clearly to low for the value of the company. But instead of selling it when the price returns to normal, he instead waits for the dividends. He also buys companies that he knows are not likely to have serious trouble. That is Warner Buffet buy the best companies when the price is undervalued and hold them.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

If they wanted a music player without a touch-screen, well, there are hundreds of those not made by Apple.

The people that want these are hoarders and price manipulators.

Not so sure. Try to find another mp3 player with massive storage, an excellent user interface, and good to excellent build quality.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[hondo77]

Nah. I bought mine when I noticed Apple had discontinued it but before the Media caught on (thus avoiding the high prices). I bought it because I have more than twice this iPod's 160GB of music and wanted the elbow room that my iPhone couldn't give me. I figure my iPod Classic will give up the ghost around the time I get my new 512GB iPhone X.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[jedidiah]

No. The proper term is speculator.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[jedidiah]

> Not so sure. Try to find another mp3 player with massive storage, an excellent user interface, and good to excellent build quality.

Any Android device.

My 500G Archos still refuses to die. It fits a particular niche that Apple will refuse to address and Android hasn't quite caught up yet with (but will eventually).

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Any android device gets a 1 out of 3 at best on the requirements list.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Ew no. Absolutely no Android device meets all three of those requirements. Just about every single one fails the build quality, and most fail the user interface.

The Classic and the Shuffle are basically the same device, minus a screen/menu. Apple could always put the screen/menu on a slightly larger iPod Shuffle, and pair it with a SD card slot, and it would still come out ahead.

The reason the iPod Classic is gone, is because nobody makes 1.8" hard drives anymore.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

No. The proper term is speculator.

Which happens to be a sub-type of investor.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[fafaforza]

I've had a few non-Apple mp3 players, and they pretty much fell apart, things stopped working, etc. I've had my 80GB Classic since 2007, and aside from replacing the headphone jack a few times, no issues. I don't want to bother with a non-Apple device really, and I'm no fanboy. If anything I have 5 ThinkPads of various vintages and no Apple laptops. These people might be investors , but not so sure about hoarders.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[slazzy]

Yeah I think if someone would make a android mp3 player with a 2TB 2.5" laptop drive, and the same battery saving caching technology that the original iPod had that might be a killer device for DJs and a few other types of people.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[matbury]

Yes, when I look for an MP3 player, I want storage... lots of it, as well as software and a CPU that can manage that many files effectively and efficiently. I'm using a (Nokia) phone with a 64GB microSD and if I fill it up, the GUI gets sluggish and error prone. With the files I can put on it without it becoming awkward and difficult to use, e.g. wating for it to unfreeze, I have to regularly remove and replace albums and collections to keep my selection varied enough to keep it interesting. I'm not surprised that people who've found a player with lots of storage that works OK want to stick with it.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

not to those in the financial services sector.

Investors and speculators are not normally considered the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation#Speculation_and_investment

The view of what distinguishes investment from speculation and speculation from excessive speculation varies widely among pundits, legislators and academics. Some sources note that speculation is simply a higher risk form of investment. Others define speculation more narrowly as positions not characterized as hedging.[2] The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission defines a speculator as "a trader who does not hedge, but who trades with the objective of achieving profits through the successful anticipation of price movements."[3] The agency emphasizes that speculators serve important market functions, but defines excessive speculation as harmful to the proper functioning of futures markets.[4]

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

OP

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the people that wanted Xserves? Could they buy other server-class rackmount hardware and install OSX server? I bet they were hoarders and price manipulators.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[AK Marc]

So someone who buys an iPod expecting it to appreciate is a speculator, but somone who buys it because they think it's undervalued is an investor. They both hope to buy low and sell high, but their motives define them.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[JBMcB]

My Archos 43 died enthusiastically. First the headphone jack blew out for no apparent reason, then the touchscreen stopped working. Never dropped or mishandled - usually hung out in my shirt pocket or on the passenger seat of my car. Support was garbage, too - there were a half dozen known issues with video playback that were fixed in base Android system updates that Archos never bothered to release. Before I could root it and do Cyanogen it died on me. Oh well.

My Nexus 7 is faring much better, but it's not really a "portable" sized mp3 player.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but who the fuck wants one?

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Scarletdown]

My 4GB iRiver Clix is still working fine as the day I got it back in 2007. Been meeting my needs for music when I am on the road, and I am still a long long way from filling its memory up.

And when I am selling this sort of stuff on the 'bay or on Amazon, non Apple players seem to do quite well for me, especially various flavors of the SanDisk Sansa line (they need to make a player called the Arya, I think). Then again, Walkmen, Discmen, and some of their Panasonic and RCA counterparts have pretty much become bread and butter products for me on both sites as well. Go figure.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Goetterdaemmerung]

> Not so sure. Try to find another mp3 player with massive storage, an excellent user interface, and good to excellent build quality.

Any Android device.

My 500G Archos still refuses to die. It fits a particular niche that Apple will refuse to address and Android hasn't quite caught up yet with (but will eventually).

No, just no. Android OS has very little overlap to a dedicated music player that requires a few physical buttons to play, pause and skip along with basic displays. The markets are only related because modern phones can also store and play music. That doesn't mean a smart phone is best at playing music.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the inv^H^H^Hspeculators do with high frequency market manipulation.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Blaskowicz]

That is interesting, I seen an open source music player, lightweight-ish that "does it all" (library, file and directories access) written in python that would erratically crash when loading a few thousand tracks ; whereas a Windows 98 PC with winamp could eat a huge playlist and function the same as on a playlist a thousandth the size (ditto linux with audacious, xmms etc.)
It may have improved after leaving the 0.x versioning but that piece of software didn't feel robust.

That may be an issue with modern software, "dynamic" and frameworky but if you push it it may crumble down, or not. Who knows.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

A much larger issue is some of the android devices' crap choice for DAC. I have a Cowon D2 that still provides good service - 4GB internal memory, 32GB SD card - holds enough of a collection that I don't need to swap music much.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[blue_teeth]

Amen to D2! There are some audiophiles who require portable music and have not heard of Cowon. Get a pair of good earbuds and you have one professional portable audio system. I'm told it accepts a particular type of Nokia mobile phone battery.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

You're both (all?) missing the point.

The speculator looks for increase in value for high ROI through SCARCITY. An investor by contrast looks for increase in value by the idea that he loans out his money to those who would use it to make a product, or provide a service with the expectation that it be repaid with what is basically interest.

What a speculator does is ABUSE a system set up for investors, who by contrast strive to increase total value in a system and realize profits THAT WAY.

IF all you think matters is profit over all other considerations, then you must really admire thieves. They can achieve staggering ROI's. Also, they're fucking parasites, much like speculators who without adding value WHILE jacking up the price of what they hoard to make it more scarce, then benefit from the scarcity they helped create... And both should be destroyed. They're goddamned fucking parasites.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[AK Marc]

So, there's no such thing as a property investor? Property is all scarcity. Property goes up in value always (over a long enough measure). Because land is fixed, and people are increasing.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[mwvdlee]

I actually have an old "smartphone" Samsung G600 with 8GB microSD as an MP3 player during fitness.
My old Samsung S+ is hooked up to a reciever; FM radio, internet radio and client for a 1.5TB mediatank.
If my current phone is replaced, I can still use it as a media player elsewhere in the house. Perhaps replace my alarm clock.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[tlhIngan]

My 500G Archos still refuses to die. It fits a particular niche that Apple will refuse to address and Android hasn't quite caught up yet with (but will eventually).

I stopped at Archoa. I used to like them - they had spec sheets a mile long and did a whole pile of things.

Problem was, they are utter crap, poor quality parts, locked hardware (if the hard drive dies, it's dead. You CANNOT replace the hard drive as it's bootloader locked!).

I've never seen a dead pixel on any screen except on Archos devices, and it usually isn't one, it's usually many.

Nevermind their size since it's a 2.5" hard drive so it's over twice the size of an iPod classic. And the 1.8" drives Apple uses are no longer made by Toshiba (who wants a 160GB drive when 160GB of flash is rapidly falling in price? It's just like the iPod Mini - Apple stopped making them when the 4GB hard drives were outclassed by flash producing the iPod Nano instead).

Re:Wrong conclusion

[joemck]

>Try to find another mp3 player with massive storage
>Any Android device.

Last time I looked for such a thing, my choices seemed to be:
A. Small device with fairly small storage. This is getting better lately, with phone builtin storage growing, but I still haven't seen anything as small as an iPod Classic offering anything like 160 GB. However, the phones that have anywhere near enough storage are also rather large.
B. 5-9 inch tablet. Need I say more? If I wanted to browse the web and watch movies on it this would be awesome, but I want a pocket sized device to listen to music on. I don't care if it has a high resolution touchscreen; if it doesn't fit comfortably in a pocket, it's useless to me.

>an excellent user interface

This is something you're not going to get on an iPod Classic either. I thought the UI was pretty nice until I installed Rockbox on a Sansa Clip+. It has a truly tiny 2-level monochrome OLED display and a generic selection of buttons and a CPU that can barely emulate classic GameBoy at full speed. But with Rockbox it has so many more functions than my iPod Classic, which can't run any unofficial firmware due to code signing. I can edit playlists with much greater ease. I can enqueue songs without disrupting the current playlist. I can save custom playlists with names other than "On The Go Playlist 5". I can search and navigate my music library much more effectively. And the big one: I can connect it to any Windows, Linux or Mac and access my music library like on any disk.

>good to excellent build quality

Sure, the Clip+ has a plastic shell, not Apple's anodized aluminum. It does seem to be pretty sturdy though, apart from the clip -- it broke off after a couple years, I dremeled off the remains of it, drilled a couple little holes and now have it on a nylon cord I wear around my neck. It's gone in water a few times as well. I blew the water out of it as best I could and let it sit for a half hour, and it doesn't seem to be any worse for the wear.

Downside of my trusty little Clip+ is that it's 4 GB plus whatever MicroSD I can stick in it. When I can get a 128-256 GB MicroSD, I'll truly have a replacement for the iPod Classic.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

My galaxy s4 has a 128gb uSD in it right now.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

But on the other hand: iPod Classic wasn't among the best in terms of audio quality, when it was released.
And a music player is supposed to be about audio quality first, and built quality second.

I used an iRiver T60 back then, which was smaller and offered better sound. And was powered by AAA.

That said... it's all went worse since then. :)
Today most people don't use music players at all - we've switched to smartphones. We somehow got used to carrying chargers, to the mediocre sound quality, to cumbersome operation of touch-screen devices.

So the iPod was clearly not a very good choice 10 years ago. But today, compared to what we use, it's actually not bad...

Re:Wrong conclusion

[jiriw]

My Creative Zen Xtra (2003) is still going strong. 30GB harddisk (also available in 60 GB), large blue-backlit LCD, excellent user interface, IMHO. Replacable battery, however the Li-ion cell it came with is still doing what it's supposed to do. Built like a brick, however the front aluminium cover which gives access to the battery compartment hasn't got the sturdiest of closing mechanisms. Not a 'scroll wheel' of course because that was patented technology at that time. But side buttons and a jog wheel for volume and selection works for me.
I did install the 2.10.03 'plays for sure' firmware to make it WMP 10 compatible. Apparently that didn't always work out well for it has a reputation as "Zen killer". But I never had any problems with it...

I also still have (but don't use) my Creative D.A.P. Jukebox (Disc-man sized, blue/silver, 6GB HDD, pre-ipod era). Fond memories... but 6 GB is just too small.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[tburkhol]

So, there's no such thing as a property investor? Property is all scarcity.

Exactly. Buying and selling property is real estate speculation.

Now, buying property because you want to build apartments on it and collect rent would be an investment, or buying an office complex because you think it will provide more income than its costs, but buying something with the sole intention of selling it to the next sucker is speculation

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. Land should be regarded as a communal resource, rented from the government, in the style of the most successful capitalist economy: Hong Kong.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Replace the hard drive with one or two SD slots....the rest can stay the same.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[cardpuncher]

Actually, most people who buy stock are just speculators, however they might like to describe themselves.

If you buy newly-issued stock in a company, you're definitely an investor - the company gets your money. If you buy enough stock in a company to give you control and use that control to grow the business better than the previous management, you might be considered an investor. If you buy a small bundle of stock from an existing shareholder, you're not investing anything, you've just placed a bet - an indirect consequence of which is that the original actual investor was able to realise his gains.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

But on the other hand: iPod Classic wasn't among the best in terms of audio quality, when it was released.
[...] So the iPod was clearly not a very good choice 10 years ago.

10 years ago, the iPod had already been on the market for 3 years. Now I can't comment on audio quality from 13 years ago, as it wasn't until the 4th generation (released 10 years ago) that I bought an iPod, but 4th gen audio quality seemed adequate to me.

Of course, then in between the 4th and 6th generation, they decided to fuck with the volume settings. When I turn the volume all the way down, I expect to hear nothing. Not because "well why don't you just pause it you moron", but because Apple's new definition of "lowest" volume was still too fucking loud.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[anagama]

I did the same thing. I had been waiting for my 80gb model to die before getting the 160gb model, but the news made me go out pick up one of the last boxed iPods in my area at the normal price.

What I particularly like about the classic is that it has physical buttons. That means I can change things while driving without averting my eyes. People don't think about the danger of driving, but when you aren't looking at the road, the chance of being in or causing some life changingly horrendous accident is so much greater.

Secondly, the arrangement of the physical buttons is important. I once had a Creative Labs ____ MG -- can't quite recall the name, circa 2000 or 2001. The button arrangement was horrid -- I had to squint and stare at the tiny buttons on the side every time to not accidentally delete while meaning to skip ahead. With the classic, I can skip and pause by feel alone. I'm sure there are other players I could learn this too, just saying the interface with the Classic is satisfactory for driving.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Mistah Blue]

Someone who works in a classified environment. I've been told by someone that works in that kind of environment that the Classic is the only music device they can use.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no real growth in value for the iPod. It won't make a return for the investor unless he can find a poor sap who wants to pay more for it then he bought it for. AKA, the bigger idiot theory. While Walmart will in theory grow sales and continue to build value through returns in dividends, stock buy backs, etc. The iPod won't Apple could at anytime make new ipod classics which would effect the price.

Also, I am speculator rather then an investor. I have and continue to make day trades in weekly index options when I perceive that the market should make big moves over the day. I am, however, down money on the whole. I've learned though that 90% of my kind of trading is waiting. I did make money this week, not a lot given the 2 months I waited for it to be my type of market. But I keep not having enough confidence in my strategy due to having made large mistakes when figuring it out.

NOT INVESTING ADVICE FOR ANY PARTICULAR STOCK/BOND/OPTION!!!!

Captcha is SUCKER!!!! I hope it's not an omen.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

All investing/Speculating is always placing a bet.* If I buy US government bonds am placing a bet that the USA will be around to pay me in the future with money that isn't worthless. It's a arguably very safe bet but it's a BET none the less. It is an investing bet because you are not looking for an idiot to resell it through without a growth in value. (Though people (Including me) do speculate in US Gov bonds) Investing doesn't have to do with controlling the investment. If my mom asks for money to start a flower shop and I give it to her in-exchange for part of the profits without any control, I am investing if I am placing a bet that there will be profits and returns given to me. But I am speculating if I think that when her dad's inheritance money comes, I can sell her my share for a profit even if she isn't successful enough to make a profit. Am defiantly a speculator if I think she will pay me extra for emotional reasons. How are these scenarios different if my mom asks me to buy a share of the company after it is well established??? They aren't more then from the prospect of risk analyses but not from the investing or speculating angle.

Everyone, with a US dollar in their pocket is an investor in america. They are betting that a dollar will have value in the future which can only happen if people continue to see value in that dollar because things they need/want are available. Money printing is equal to share dilution, BTW.

*If you are smart you rank your returns, danger of principle loss, etc against other possible investments.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Anecdotes, gotta love them.
I have an ipod touch. It's a brick.
I have a Sandisk clip, been running like a champ for 6-7 years now.
The Sandisk Clip is the best bang for buck mp3 player/voice recorder/FM radio that has ever existed.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Property can be invested in or speculated in like any marketable asset with potential for value growth or direct returns.

Speculation, would be buying a house because you see that the real-estate market is going up faster then the growth in the normal demand for housing. You are not planning on making money through renting it out ether; though, you might because hey why not. An example would be buying a house in an area where a large factory might be built nearby which would case a sudden increase in housing prices as the factory became more and more probable. Or buying a house because you realize there are simply too many houses on the market and not enough buyers but you see that the excess housing will dry up.

Investing, would be buying a house because you can rent it out for a return and you realize that the area the house is in will continue to grow in demand or at least hold on to current demand. (based on reasonable predictions.)

To put it simply speculation is taking a bet that market conditions are abnormal and that they will become more abnormal (trend following) , that they will return to normal(contrarian), or that an external event will cause a sudden change in value that a new normal will form(event outcome based speculation) aka you think you're smarter then the market.

Investing is buying the house assuming that the market is somewhat normal with the theory of continued normalcy being profitable for you through returns and reasonable belief in predicable growth.

That's why the best way to make money is to buy for investment but buy when realize the market price is too low. If done correctly, You get great returns because you bought a company or house at say 20% discount which makes your dividends/rent return high vs initial investment. Also, you're still making money if the asset looses 20% off it's normal price because you got the returns.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't be as fancy as pressing play on your macbook, the dj's won't like it.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[matbury]

Quod Libet seems to handle large MP3 libraries better than anything else I've tried on desktops: https://code.google.com/p/quod... However, a decent MP3 player that handles a large library effectively? Yet to see one.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[rikkards]

Surprised they are allowed to bring them into the area. Granted it has no camera but it is a perfectly viable usb storage device. Our areas bringing any govt owned electronic devices without it being approved by our designated security officer is a no-no. Personal devices would be considered verboten from the get-go

Re:Wrong conclusion

[ButchDeLoria]

Android phone user here (Oneplus One), most Android phones have fucking terrible DACs, short of HTC's devices. And your Archos tablet in question is very uncommon, using the same sorts of tiny HDDs that the iPod Classic used. Almost all Android devices I've seen besides Archos tablets all use flash storage which rarely comes larger than 64GB on high end devices, and currently even if other PMPs have microSD slots supporting 128GB cards, the iPod Classics can beat them in capacity. The only portable (as in pocketable) music player than I know of with decent build quality, storage capability greater than 128GB, and a good DAC is the iPod Classic.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

foobar2000 and Rockbox. Nothing else is better.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still using a n 80 GB iPod Video, and have replaced the battery and am looking at upgrading the drive. I don't need a fucking touchscreen to play music - I need a large drive because I have a lot of music, and there is absolutely no guarantee of good internet service anywhere except at my home (thank {insert-deity-here} that TWC doesn't have stupid bandwidth caps like every other ISP) to use "cloud" storage. These 16 and 32 GB devices just don't cut it, the 64 GB ones might barely fit my library if the OS doesn't take up too much space, and since every idiot manufacturer seems to think external storage should go bye-bye along with user-replaceable batteries, it's getting to be a pain to find a device I can stuff a 128 GB SD card in (thank {insert-deity-here} that LG still understands that accesssible batteries and storage are nice things).

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

> Not so sure. Try to find another mp3 player with massive storage, an excellent user interface, and good to excellent build quality.

Any Android device.

I don't know of many Android devices that come equipped with 160 GB of user storage.

My 500G Archos still refuses to die. It fits a particular niche that Apple will refuse to address and Android hasn't quite caught up yet with (but will eventually).

So when you say "any Android device", you mean in a few years or something. ;)

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

lol @ "Cowon". That's just some cheap knock-off brand like "Coby", "GPX" or "Ainol".

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

Apple could make a music player with a large amount of flash memory and sell it at a reasonable price. But they can't do it without breaking the price model they have been using for the iPhone and iPad with larger amounts of flash. To preserve that model they would have to sell a 128GB Classic replacement for at least $500, and the market would be very limited at that price point.

Others will step in, and perhaps eventually force Apple to respond. For example, you can buy a FiiO X1 for $100 and add a 128GB MicroSD card for a bit over another $100. That will give you a player with nearly as much storage (a bit over 3/4) at a slightly lower price than what the Classic cost before it was discontinued. It also sounds better, especially if you play lossless audio files. But you don't get iTunes integration.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

Archos used to make players like that. They all seem to be discontinued now; the company's current product line is mostly Android tablets and smartphones, and they still make some flash-based MP3 players that aren't sold in the US. Their hard disk based players never sold in anything like the quantities of the iPod; size, weight, and battery life are all problems. (2.5" hard drives are much higher power devices than the 1.8" drive that was used in the iPod classic.) Now that you can get SSDs and SD cards in reasonable capacities, it would be feasible to build a high capacity media player that used one or both of those; that doesn't get you up to 2TB (or 8TB!) like a rotating 2.5" drive would but it's enough for most uses.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

Why would the Classic be allowed, but not the Nano or Shuffle? I would think the security risk of any of them would be identical. Non-Apple players like the Sansa series are slightly higher risks because they are easier to use as general purpose USB storage devices.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

Actually not. The Cowon devices are high quality media players. But they never sold well in the US, possibly in part because the brand name sounds too much like those cheap knockoff companies.

FiiO is another company making excellent music players, and their latest model, the X1, costs a mere $100 (with no storage but it has a MicroSD slot that accepts cards up to 128GB). American customers are likely to find the manuals offputting, as the version of English used in them bears only a passing resemblance to the standard language. The FiiO players use audiophile-quality DACs that play lossless audio up to 24/192, and the two more expensive models (X3 and X5) also play DSD64 files.

Disclosure: I recently bought a FiiO X3. With high quality music it sounds amazing - far better than any Apple player. (The UI, on the other hand, is merely adequate.) The X1 is a slight step down in quality from my X3 but still blows all iPods out of the water, and it has a better UI with a scrollwheel.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

128GB MicroSD cards are now available. They cost a bit over $100. Check your player's compatibility; not all older devices can handle cards larger than 32GB.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[EmeraldBot]

Audacious for me. Handles huge playlists very well, is lightweight, and is fairly cross platform (currently, no OS X support, but they're planning on adding that in a release or two). Even handles classic Winamp skins, a huge bonus if you're someone like me who's used the same skin for years.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[lucien86]

Not having iTunes is a great selling point for me. Who would anyone want to buy music and never own it? tie themselves to 'Engulf and Devour' forever- or until they pull the plug on you?

Re:Wrong conclusion

[lucien86]

Should be - 'Why would anyone want to buy music and never own it?' -- stupid dyslexia..

Re:Wrong conclusion

[MercTech]

Or is it the iPod classic hit the proper niche spot on and everything tried as a replacement is found lacking.
O travel a lot for work and can carry my whole music collection, a few audiobooks, and a movie or two on a 160 gig iPod classic. Touch screen would make it harder to navigate. Wifi is for the laptop. I need the iPod for areas, like the vehicle, where streaming is ineffective.
The iPod classic will be remembered along side things like the VW Beetle and 1966 Mustang; perfect for their market and only messed up by attempts to change.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

My Clip Zip with Rockbox can handle 128GB so I'm sure the Clip+ can too.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Quirkz]

What do you mean I don't own it? I can burn a CD and keep physical copies. Plus I can also get a new copy from Apple if I lose both the physical version and the digital version on my computer/iPod.

I've got a much better record buying from them than I did in previous years buying physical media that, once broken, borrowed, or lost, didn't have a replacement.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Speculators are not evil, except for when they are the ones driving the price of the market. For example if a wild fire burned a few houses down in a area. It would negatively effect housing prices in that area. Now, a good speculator would see this as an opportunity to buy houses that people are needing/wanting to sell but can't easily sell. He buys realizing that another fire is unlikely for a while and that prices should return to normal. Multiply speculators will help provide support to the price preventing even lower since few want to own home or rent one there due to temporary fear.

Another example would be a place where a business dries up that hires skilled workers. Those workers realize that they need to sell their homes in-order to move to a more fruitful location. This causes there to be too many homes on the market for the amount of buyers. This will force the price down. Speculators will realize the odds of being able to sell a house a few months later for a profit are good.

However, speculation turns evil when people for example buy houses because housing has been going up in price even without any real reason or a least not sustainable reason for the increase. This creates a cycle of people trying to find the bigger idiot until no bigger idiots exist.

Re: Wrong conclusion

[Wycliffe]

What you're basically saying is that speculators are good for the market when
they buy on a drop but bad for a market if they buy on the way up.
Or another way to say it is that speculators are good when they are going the
opposite direction of the market.
The regulators of short-selling stocks agree with you which is why there are
regulations preventing short-selling on a downward spiraling stock.
Unfortunately it's much harder to prevent speculators on an upward spiraling stock.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Shirley Marquez]

I'm not a fan of iTunes either. But some people like it, especially Mac owners. (The Windows version has always been a bloated piece of crap and I don't think anybody likes it; at best it's something they put up with because they like their iDevices.) The lack of iTunes integration is a drawback for them.

You own iTunes music in the sense that it is now sold without DRM, and you can back it up, burn it on discs, store it on multiple devices, play it with non-Apple devices and software, and so on without any restrictions. (That is not true of other iTunes content such as books and movies; those still use DRM, and the books only work on iDevices. It was also not true of early songs from iTunes. Apple gave people the opportunity to upgrade some, but not all, of those earlier songs to versions without DRM.) You do not own iTunes music completely, however, because you cannot legally lend it out or resell it.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[lucien86]

I must have been asleep. - Never noticed them removing that DRM or just forgot about it. :)

Re:Wrong conclusion

[fafaforza]

Sure, anecdotal, but I'm not going to spend money on 40 different players to do some sort of personal research. The players I did have all lost their finish, scroll wheels fell off, and the company making them were often bought out, new owners decided to dump the product line, and now you can barely download the media management software you need to load music onto it. It's happened to me, trust me.

The Clip is nice, I'll be buying one for my mom today, but as far as I know, it only supports microSD cards up to 32 GB, plus the onboard 8GB, so it still doesn't come close to 80gb or 120gb of the classic.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

The Clip is nice, I'll be buying one for my mom today, but as far as I know, it only supports microSD cards up to 32 GB, plus the onboard 8GB, so it still doesn't come close to 80gb or 120gb of the classic.

Install Rockbox and it will handle up to 2TB.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[fafaforza]

Interesting. Got a source? Might get one with a 64GB microSD.

Re:Wrong conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you go

You won't get UHS I speeds, but you'll get at least Class 10 performance.

Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Listening to music is an activity in and of itself. I want a music player that had a different battery to my phone, so that one doesn't wear the other out and vice versa. And for those of us with big libraries, I want something that has a lot of storage. The ipod classic is an incompatible linux unfriendly pain in the ass, but it's the highest capacity mp3 player I can get and it does what I need. People have to realize that there is a separate market for high capacity, dedicated mp3 players. The next company to release one with those attributes, better compatibility and more storage will do very well indeed.

Re:Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a SanDisk Sansa Clip Zip, running RockBox with a 128GB microSD card. RockBox supports a lot of audio formats and can handle up to 2TB of storage for when higher capacity microSD cards are available.

Re:Got the memo?

[Blaskowicz]

512GB or 1TB in a SD card feels uneasy and who knows about the performance.
At this point you could have a low end but real SSD on short M.2 form factor (which can have PCIe 1x or SATA interface), which is not a stretch given we used to have 1.8" HDD.

Have a USB3 interface to the computer even and now you can write at about the reading speed of your HDD. I hate how slow it is to write music to a thumb drive!, esp. when you're waiting on it before leaving the place.
Real computer-grade storage on your MP3 player or mobile device makes the issue of navigating the tracks etc. go away. Scanning the tags or indexing can happen very fast and the SSD controller does all needed to keep latency down and have the flash not die. We have 256GB for $100 today and soon you can have one controller chip plus one (or two) flash chip made of stacked dies.

Re: Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Reliability of larger SD cards are a real issue. I went through 3 64gb sandisk(tm) cards in the same number of months on two phones each. One card only lasted three days before it started having errors. They were crap. I had to back down to 32gb before I had any kind of reliability making the investment worth while. Hopefully the have worked out their production problems by now, but its hard convincing myself to try anything larger than 32gb anymore.

Re: Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 160 GB iPod Classic because I have a big library but the other reason I went with an iPod is because it keeps stats on what I play, skip, etc. and I can use those stats to create dynamic play lists so I don't end up listening to the same thing over and over.

The only other player I've found that keeps stats is DoubleTwist but it is software only not hardware. I would love it if DoubleTwist partnered with a hardware vendor to create a high capacity iPod replacement.

Re: Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

My Creative Zen X-Fi2 has a "DJ mode" where you can choose to listen to most popular, rarely heard and various other automatically updating "playlists". Rockbox also has a similar "History" section on my SanDisk Sansa Clip Zip, so it's hardly an exclusive feature to the iPod.

I can even scrobble the tunes I have listened to on my portable players when I plug them into my PC.

Similarity to Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Apple XP.

Re:Similarity to Windows

[Anne Thwacks]

Or Gnome 2.

The message is clear: once people find a UI that works for them, they dont want some other shite forced on them

Disclaimer: I use MediaTomb and a Samsung Note 3 for my music. Its not great! I can believe there is better, but I am not buying Apple or Sony

Ignored Niches

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason is simple. It's an ignored niche.

I have 1tb of music. I want to most of this on one mp3 player. Yet nearly every mp3 maker has moved to flash memory or sd cards. To slim down my music collection to 8gb is absurd. So people like me have to stick to their old spinny disc mp3 players. 80gb is better than 8...

Majority of people stream their music these days. But there are still a few of us audiophiles that rather listen to higher quality junk directly from their file trees.
Call me old fashion, but get off my lawn... and make a 500gb mp3 player pleeeeeease.

Re:Ignored Niches

[ScooterComputer]

I agree. Many of the people I know who have hacked their classic iPods put in substantially larger HDs (or even SSDs), because they were available in sizes greater than Apple bothered to ship.

My vision is an "iPod" that would effectively house wireless, some kind of storage, whether SSD (perhaps for longer battery life and ruggedness) or HD (size), and a battery. Then the software would seamlessly integrate with Apple's OSes and the various media libraries. Effectively a portable "Home Sharing" library, a "local iCloud clone". Better yet, it would sync to iCloud and fill itself when availed an internet connection. iOS 8 brought several new APIs to facilitate just such a thing. Then we could merely stick the thing in gloveboxes or center consoles, and, using the iPhones/iPads we have, play our 500GB music/movie/podcast libraries anywhere without consuming costly cellular data or even NEEDING a cell/wifi connection. Why Apple hasn't seen the analog to old-school multi-CD changes and the entertainment systems in minivans, I'll never know. In the age of 16GB iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touchesit just makes sense.

Re:Ignored Niches

[mlts]

This is a niche that nothing fills. In the past, there were a number of players (Archos, Creative, etc.) which filled this place. However, some players required special software, others would not allow copying music from the device (as it encrypted the files, not just renamed them), and some had poor build quality (one brand of player failed to deburr the metal case, and after two returns due to obvious machining fails, I gave up.)

Eventually, the third parties moved to "media" players, so if one wanted something for audio, one had to buy a much larger physical box because the maker assumed people would watch movies on it.

For a time, only Apple and MS's Zune had MP3 players that had reasonable (greater than 64 GB) capacities.

Right now, there is a hole in the MP3 player market. Someone who can make a MP3 player with 250 gigs of capacity, a MTP/PTP interface (or just allowing the device to mount as a physical drive), support for popular audio formats, and a reasonable battery life even when playing FLAC, would have a definite niche. Not a huge place... but it would have a spot in almost every studio.

Re:Ignored Niches

[wierd_w]

Flash storage devices aren't the problem; the problem is that the prevailing "removable" flash storage tech tops out at 64gb, which is SDHC. SDXC can go into hundreds of gigabytes, but it costs a fortune, is not usable in SDHC slots, the slots require ICs that are more expensive.. yadda yadda yadda.

The classic ipod has a micro IDE interface inside. It is completely possible to drop an IDESATA bridge inside there, and stick a slim SATA SSD inside that original ipod classic. Now you can have hundreds of gigabytes of storage in a drop-shock resistant package that uses much less power (and thus lasts MUCH longer), and still has all that glittery shiny steve jobs reality distortion power that apple fanbois have come to love.

Replacing the spinning disk inside with an SSD in this fashion is a very common "Unsupported" upgrade in fact.

Re:Ignored Niches

[Anonymous Coward]

Fiio X5.

Granted, you're limited to two SDHC card slots, but the size of those is going up--When the 256gb ones are out, that's going to be nearly 600gb of music available.

Fiio products are quite nice, too--A little more less slick than Apple, but they work, and they work well. I have a Fiio X1, and I am very happy with it.

Re:Ignored Niches

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

What are the chances something like you said has not already been discussed in the Infinite Loop? Apple does not want you to own and store your own music/media. It wants you to rent and stream all your media. It wants a cut from streaming service providers, and content providers.

Re:Ignored Niches

[Bogtha]

Apple does not want you to own and store your own music/media.

Take off your Apple blinders and think about this rationally. What you are saying doesn't resemble reality in the slightest. Apple have been the world's largest music retailer for years. They have been selling DRM-free music for years. They make billions of dollars a year doing this. They are clearly very, very happy to sell you music and they make a hell of a lot of money doing what you claim they don't want to do.

Re:Ignored Niches

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

When they first broke into the music selling market, the entire music market was open, and the fastest way to make money is to sell music. A decade later most people who want to buy music, middle aged people nostalgic for their teenage music with money to burn, etc etc have been tapped out. They still have to show similar revenue, and revenue growth to satisfy the Wall St bean counters. When you have over 75% market share already, maintaining revenue and growth becomes increasingly difficult. At this point they want all new music to go into the rental model with continued revenue potential.

Take a look at the Microsoft MsOffice market. It was selling perpetual licenses, and to maintain revenue growth it kept raising the prices. After reaching impossible for software prices like 500$ for a full office suite, 150$ for Excel+Word they could not sustain it anymore. Google stepped in with a low end Cloud-Office suite at 50$ a pop per year and made serious inroads into MsOffice monopoly. The first serious challenge, the first challenge to MsOffice franchise that got traction was GoogleDocs. We might laugh at the mickey mouse features of GoogleDocs compared to MsOffice, we might see OpenOffice and LibreOffice are far more serious implementations. But, on the ground, GoogleDocs had just two things going for it. Extremely good collaboration features and a tempting "it is just 50$, let us try it for a while" price. Now Microsoft is pitching OfficeLive365 as 50$ a year all you can eat buffet. It used to sell the entire suite for 50$ in the 1990s, student version perpetual license were 30$ as recently 2009. Now?

Almost all the software companies want to go into subscription model, software as service, rent not own, model. All the media companies too. Price blue-ray disc at 25$, but stream HD rental at 5$. Rent, not own. That is the way all media and software companies are evolving into.

Re:Ignored Niches

[Computershack]

80gb is better than 8...

You can get 128GB micro SD cards.

Re:Ignored Niches

[Shirley Marquez]

That's two MICRO SDXC slots, not two of the standard size ones. So 256GB is the limit for now. That's twice as much as the two lesser FiiO models, which only have a single Micro SDXC slot. X3 owner here - I got one when B&H had it on sale for $130.

Re:Ignored Niches

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, SDXC is pin compatible with all SDHC slots, it is up to drivers as to whether it can be read or not.

Tactile controls

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the Classic that's missed. I like the size and convenience of the Nano, but despise the newest generations with their touchscreen interfaces. I use my Nano 5g walking and driving. I like that I can easily hit play/pause or skip without having to take my attention away from what's in front of me.

Re:Tactile controls

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the Classic that's missed. I like the size and convenience of the Nano, but despise the newest generations with their touchscreen interfaces. I use my Nano 5g walking and driving. I like that I can easily hit play/pause or skip without having to take my attention away from what's in front of me.

That's precisely what's keeping my iPod classic in use years later. With the clickwheel thing, I can keep the ipod in my pocket and still pause/unpause or change tracks without having to reach into the pocket, just by putting a bit of pressure on the area where I know the wheel is. Volume changes need hand in pocket, but none of these basic interactions require removing it from my pocket and looking at the device, so it's less distracting.

You can't get that with a touchscreen player. The closest I've seen is sometimes players can use hardware buttons, and there are headphones that have controls built in, but I've tried both methods before and they just aren't as convenient as the ipod classic's wheel.

The massive storage and long battery life are also useful. Even years later (6 or more?) my ipod classic gets better battery life than any phone I've used, if both are playing music non-stop. Plus I can have my entire collection at decent quality instead of a fraction of my collection at inferior quality.

I'm not even an Apple fan, and I don't generally like their products, but the pre-touchscreen ipod is a fine piece of hardware that deserved its popularity. Its biggest failing was Apple deciding to shackle it to iTunes, but once I activated the device I didn't care because Linux had good enough support for adding playlists and music.

Re:Tactile controls

[Megane]

That's why I still use my 4GB 1st-gen Nano. (And yes, I know many of them had a problem with their batteries, to the point where Apple just takes them back and gives you a brand new different model.) I don't have to look at it to change tracks while driving.

nah it's a dead cat bounce

[Spy Handler]

nostalgia only goes so far; you can't make a mass market product on nostalgia alone. They sell what, 50 million iphones every 3 months? A few thousand nostalgia seekers wouldn't even be pocket change inside the pants of a rounding error.

Plus the people seeking the mini hard drive storage capacity will be mollified in a couple years when iphone flash memory capacity reaches 256 - 500 GB.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[dsginter]

nostalgia only goes so far;

It isn't nostalgia: there is a market for people who aren't tech people and need something simply. Apple is ignoring those people as Blackberry did right up until just now. I understand the need to have a simple smartphone with a keyboard as well as the simple mp3 player with just a few controls.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[Overzeetop]

Well, if somebody's paying $500 for dead cats, I'm willing to bounce my dead cat for that kind of money.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[gstoddart]

It has nothing at all to do with nostalgia. Not even a little. It has to do with a simple, clean device with a lot of storage, that just works.

I updated the OS on my iPod touch .. and three apps broke.

My iPod Classic? It doesn't run iOS, doesn't have apps to break, has huge battery life. Which means until it physically dies, it's going to keep doing the exact same thing.

I wish I'd realized they were getting rid of them , because I'd have bought another one.

For a simple travel player which lets me bring tons of stuff and all that ... I really would rather have that than my Touch. Because I could bring a crap ton of music and movies, and play them through the TV with a simple cable.

My iPod touch has made a lot of business trips in hotels a lot more pleasant.

The old fashioned iPod classic with a spinning HD might be relatively low-tech these days. But it did what it did really damned well.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[LordVader717]

Smartphone updates are a pain, but you can turn off updates if you need rock-solid reliability. If you use simple battery-saving methods an iPhone or Android will play music for longer than any iPod ever did. And as for AV output, modern devices are more capable than ever, but composite video has gone out of fashion (though they were available for a while).

I guess my point is that apart from the physical buttons most of the functionality is easy to replicate. And the remaining niches like composite video and storage capacity can be addressed with more capable devices.
There sure are practical things about using old technology. Like how fast a DOS machine would boot, the contrast of a CRT, replacing the batteries on a GameBoy or simply pressing "record" on a VCR. But getting to worked up about these things is Nostalgia if you ask me.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[Anonymous Coward]

Waiting few years???? Really? For iSomething? I think your brain died long time ago.

Besides, what market is it, that cannot catch some people's desire - Apple may be too large but even Apple could spin off a company filling the niche unless of course the bean counters decided that this would cut profits elsewhere.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[Anonymous Coward]

iPod touch tech specs list longer music and video play time than iPod classic, but the capacity is less than half at 64GB. Apple probably needs to get denser flash to be cheaper. iPhone 6 already has 128GB storage option, so not improbable that they would double the storage capacity of a touch to 128GB. Just a question of whether or not they would actually just do it.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[zlogic]

"Modern" solutions like syncing only a handful of songs you expect to listen or streaming everything is much more difficult than carrying a complete audio library with you.
My current music library is something like 120 gigs. That includes
* regular 256-320kb/s MP3 albums
* FLAC albums
* soundtracks from games
* "bonus" stuff like remixes, instrumentals
* random compilations grouped into hierarchical folders
* stuff shared by friends which is yet to be listened to be deleted or saved
* "souvenir" CDs bought from obscure street bands without proper tags

The only players which can keep my complete music libraries are HDD-based. And the only way I can keep my audio organized is to keep it in folders rather than a single list with 11000+ tracks, 500+ artists, 1000+ albums.
The only portable player capable of carrying all my library was an iPod Classic. I even wrote a script to replicate the folder-based organization into hierarchical lists in iTunes. Being able to instantly play a song you haven't heard in many years, or being able to choose a song which matches you mood is really awesome. Having multiple days of battery life is also kind of impressive.
The only thing wrong with iPod Classic 6G was its audio quality. It seems Apple's vision was for Classic at that time was to be a video player capable of carrying TV shows (and plugging into a TV if necessary), that's why filling it with music made the library completely unmanageable.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[thegarbz]

Smartphone updates are a pain, but you can turn off updates if you need rock-solid reliability. If you use simple battery-saving methods an iPhone or Android will play music for longer than any iPod ever did.

So what you are saying is that we should buy expensive smartphones, disable all cellular connections, remove updates from a device connected to the internet, effectively dim the screen as dark as possible, and then stick in the largest SD card we can find and then we can match the performance of a cheap iPod for a cool $700? Sign me up!

In all seriousness though if there is a suggestion for matching a device's functionality which involves so heavily gimping a smartphone then it really is a great scenario where having a separate device would be ideal, not to mention that I don't like a scenario which potentially leaves me stuck because either my phone doesn't work because I've been using it for non-stop music listening.

I'll also happily challenge the fact that a smartphone can match the iPod's battery performance. Most of the battery saving features involve switching the CPU into an ultra low power state, something that can't be done while playing music. But that's just splitting hairs since both will likely exceed a day in this state.

I would happily buy another iPod.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[LordVader717]

So what you are saying is that we should buy expensive smartphones

iPods weren't cheap.

disable all cellular connections, remove updates from a device connected to the internet, effectively dim the screen as dark as possible, and then stick in the largest SD card we can find and then we can match the performance of a cheap iPod for a cool $700? Sign me up!

Nice straw man. You don't need to do any of that. The point is that if you don't install tons of background apps and don't watch youtube all day, you should be able to listen to music for a very long time. Many Smartphone users actively avoid updates because of the problems they sometimes cause.

In all seriousness though if there is a suggestion for matching a device's functionality which involves so heavily gimping a smartphone then it really is a great scenario where having a separate device would be ideal

The point I was making is that if 90% of people's needs can be met with one device, the remaining niche probably won't justify holding on to an entirely separate product line. And it's not as if there's anything the iPod does that modern gadgets absolutely can't.

not to mention that I don't like a scenario which potentially leaves me stuck because either my phone doesn't work because I've been using it for non-stop music listening.

I would really recommend an external power bank. I've completely stopped worrying about battery issues since I got one. They can hold an incredible amount of charge so you can run even the most demanding tasks all day. You can charge your "phone functionality" as well as your "music functionality". Not to mention practically everything else (like my camera battery) as they're universal. They weigh hardly any more than an iPod and are much much cheaper.

I'll also happily challenge the fact that a smartphone can match the iPod's battery performance.

Fine. I haven't got an iPhone, so I can't test it myself. I was able to find this which claims 40 hours of music playback. The last generation of iPod apparently could play for 36 hours. But I think it should be pointed out that the most popular models most people remember had far less than that.

Most of the battery saving features involve switching the CPU into an ultra low power state, something that can't be done while playing music.

My battery monitor app suggests that by far the most power is consumed by the screen and radio adapters. This seemed to apply to my old iPod nano too, which was rated as lasting for 12 hours, which it would do so long as you didn't touch anything. But change the song now and then or browse through your collection for a few minutes and you'll be lucky to get half that.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[thegarbz]

iPods weren't cheap.

They are compared to smartphones + 120GB SDCards.

Nice straw man. You don't need to do any of that.

This was your scenario, not mine. A typical smartphone with it's cellular, 3G and WiFi turned on will drain the battery in about a day and a bit assuming that the device is completely in standby which it won't be while playing music. An iPod on the other hand has quite an exceptionally long battery life in comparison.

The point I was making is that if 90% of people's needs can be met with one device

Of course it can. Those people aren't the ones who still own 160GB iPods on which they carry their entire music collection.

I would really recommend an external power bank.

What an carry around another device? This is moving the goalposts a bit isn't it?

I was able to find this [everymac.com] which claims 40 hours of music playback.

I don't think I've ever seen an iPhone with 40 hours of standby time let alone time doing something useful like playing music. And if you start disabling things like Facebook, email, and all the other applications that do useful stuff on the phone, why not just buy an iPod, it'll be cheaper.

My battery monitor app suggests that by far the most power is consumed by the screen and radio adapters.

Yep and I would fully agree with you if your battery monitor app has ever experienced a full day non-stop playing music, but I'm going to guess and say it hasn't. I'm not saying that playing music takes a lot of power, it doesn't, but playing music prevents the CPU going to sleep, and THAT uses a lot of power. Definitely more so than the radio, but still only a fraction of the screen power use. But hey you said it yourself your radio uses the most power, but at the top you told me I can't turn it off and said something about a strawman. Which is it? A strawman, or a part of my music player that sucks the battery dry?

This is all semantics really because in this connected world I doubt people find themselves without a phone charger for more than a few hours at a time anyway. Even when going camping we have solar panels to charge various devices. But the point is if you want to play music then the iPod is a hell of a device to beat, and certainly can't be fully displaced by a smartphone for many scenarios.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[LordVader717]

>They are compared to smartphones + 120GB SDCards.

Yeah, we get it. The iPod was a hard drive device. Flash is more expensive. Having said that, it appears that with todays prices a smartphone and 128GB card will set you back way less than the iPod did.

>A typical smartphone with it's cellular, 3G and WiFi turned on will drain the battery in about a day and a bit assuming that the device is completely in standby which it won't be while playing music.

[citation needed]. I haven't noticed any gains by turning off the the antenna compared to just saving power by not using it so heavily.

>Of course it can. Those people aren't the ones who still own 160GB iPods on which they carry their entire music collection.

Just because they exist as a minority doesn't mean it's a good idea for apple to invest a product line in them.

>What an carry around another device? This is moving the goalposts a bit isn't it?

Not at all. It was *you* who was extolling the virtues of having a separate device in the form of an iPod. The way I see it cellphone+iPod is no worse than smartphone+powerbank.

>I don't think I've ever seen an iPhone with 40 hours of standby time let alone time doing something useful like playing music.

I gave a source for that info, so if you have any source to the contrary you can present it. As I mentioned earlier I felt the battery life of the iPod to be inflated too, as it referred only to sequential playback without using the screen or menus whatsoever, and that's not how most people use their iPods.

>And if you start disabling things like Facebook, email, and all the other applications that do useful stuff on the phone, why not just buy an iPod, it'll be cheaper.

As we have jest established, this is certainly not the case.

>I'm not saying that playing music takes a lot of power, it doesn't, but playing music prevents the CPU going to sleep, and THAT uses a lot of power.

This explanation certainly sounds sensible, but you haven't produced any evidence why my claim about smartphones playing audio for as long as iPods is wrong.

>But hey you said it yourself your radio uses the most power, but at the top you told me I can't turn it off and said something about a strawman.

The radio uses a lot of power if you browse the web and watch streaming videos all the time. If you use it like an iPod and only play music offline, then the GSM standby and occaisonal SMS won't exactly be major energy hogs. No "gimping" involved, just make an effort to cut back on power-heavy usage.

>This is all semantics really because in this connected world I doubt people find themselves without a phone charger for more than a few hours at a time anyway. Even when going camping we have solar panels to charge various devices.

Finding the charger and getting the phone out can be a pain though. But like I say, the powerbank has been a real saviour for me cause then I can go off somewhere and have enough charge for many days of GPS, music, videos and whatever else.

>But the point is if you want to play music then the iPod is a hell of a device to beat, and certainly can't be fully displaced by a smartphone for many scenarios.

Personally I found that the iPod's lack of support for various audio formats, lack of bluetooth audio, lacking equalizer and iTunes' terrible tagging system to be quite the dealbreaker for music.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[thegarbz]

Sorry I'm out. I didn't read past your [citation needed]. You said yourself the radio uses the most power on your device so I didn't read the rest of your post because now I just think you're arguing for argument sake.

Lets just say you're right if it makes you feel any better.

Re:nah it's a dead cat bounce

[LordVader717]

Well, I guess I'll count it as a formal retreat from argument. But the way you've left suggesting my I'm still wrong or irrational just makes you a really bad loser. If you really aren't interested in my arguments and instead decide to bury your head in the sand, then who was really "arguing for argument's sake"?

But just in case you're at all interested in the last bit of rationality you decided to respond to: The [citation needed] refers to your claim that the radio will drain your battery in little more than 24 hours in standby, which seems to go against all evidence a google search for "iphone standby battery life" could return. How much energy the radio eventually ends up using depends on usage patterns, entirely like the iPod.

you can have my classic when you pry it from etc..

[roc97007]

I have a Gen 3 (firewire, not usb) that I've repaired twice (replaced battery and headphone jack) and I'm about to repair for a third time (another battery and a hard drive). It does what I need, holds a massive amount of music, and I find the interface quicker and more intuitive than my daughter's Touch.

Could it be that Apple is having its "Windows XP" moment? That the Classic design was good enough that people just didn't see the reason to upgrade? (And doesn't this run counter to the Apple culture of "abandon your gadget when the next incremental improvement comes out"?)

My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[osu-neko]

...and that was great when I got it, but it's gotten a bit on the small side actually. Apple wants me to upgrade, they need to produce a bigger unit. Current store only has them up to 64MB. I'm certainly not going to downgrade just to get a newer unit.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

I get buy with my 128GB iPhone.

(I'm not even going to mention the 'MB' thing. ;)

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[xaotikdesigns]

WHAT? That's less than one album. What kind of crap is apple selling?

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

He means GB.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and that was great when I got it, but it's gotten a bit on the small side actually. Apple wants me to upgrade, they need to produce a bigger unit. Current store only has them up to 64MB. I'm certainly not going to downgrade just to get a newer unit.

I'll bet you meant 64gb, but I get what you are saying. I personally hate to throw out any electronics as long as it still works and does what I need it to do. Sure, my cell plays MP3s, but I would rather save its battery life for phone conversations. Plus I just don't understand this rampant consumerism of throwing out a six month old 100% functional device just because device v2 just came out.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[ILongForDarkness]

Each to their own I guess but I have a 16GB nano and don't really see the need for more. I get about 2 days straight of battery life and about the same amount of music on the device. I'm never very far from a computer so swapping out the songs isn't a big deal. I'd trade battery life and size or the small amount of convenience of having most/all my music on the device all the time. I suspect that is what is doing in the classic: If people are going to go for a bigger heavy device they'll just use their smartphone. If they want a built for purpose thing they'll probably want it as small as possible. I use it because I don't care too much if I lose it versus my phone and it is small for the gym so I don't need any of those dorky looking arm straps for a cellphone.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not really sure you need more than 64 GB. My classical music collection is 84 GB, lossless. 341 hours. Converted to Vorbis, it's about 18 G (-q4,25, ~136 kbps). Extrapolating from this, you should fit about eight hundred hours (33 days' worth) of music, even at a larger bit rate.

Unless you need to keep your whole music collection with you at all times, 64 GB seems plenty.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple thinks you can run in the cloud now. iTunes match can have most to all of your music collection available with huge data transfer fees from your cellular provider.

I use my iPhone to stream music in my car via bluetooth. It works, but sometimes there is lag. The disk space can't cache even a few songs anymore because apps get bigger over time and so does iOS. I'm at a point that I've had to delete most of my music and 10 apps so far. It's also extremely hard to delete music when you have iTunes match because they think you're all in on cloud music. I manually cache frequently played songs so I limit my data usage.

Apple has the same strategy with their computers. SSDs are great, but they can't hold an iTunes collection. I find that I have to buy a time machine disk and an iTunes disk and have the iTunes disk backup to the time machine disk also. It's getting hard to find drives big enough. I may have to go to an external raid enclosure soon.

I miss drive bays.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[xaotikdesigns]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, don't laugh. Back in 1998 I was using a Rio PMP300 which only came with 32MB onboard. I added another 32MB SD card and had just enough to store an album's worth of music for my commute to and from work.

Re:My iPod Classic has 160GB of capacity...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because everybody has the same music collection, tastes, moods and needs as you...

Transend MP870

[evanh]

I not long ago purchased a Transend MP870. Accepts microSD cards, plays OOGs, records FM radio, is pretty tough, isn't buggy and the battery really does last. Great device.

Re:Transend MP870

[SternisheFan]

Not bad, records FM and allows a line in input to Wav, though the 4/8 gb models only takes up to a 16 gb microSD card. It'd need a much larger sd capacity to compete against other players.

http://www.tech.firstpost.com/...

Re:Transend MP870

[evanh]

I've happily used 32GB already. It's odd how press releases always limit themselves to what was tested with no indication that bigger sizes may also work.

I get it

[JThundley]

I get it, I did the same thing and bought 2 refurbished Sansa devices for more than the retail price of a new one. Why? Because they work great with Rockbox. Not to mention there's no stupid touch-screen interface! I can control these blindly while driving.

Vinyl refuses to die too

[Anonymous Coward]

But nobody seems to want buggy whips.

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[xaotikdesigns]

There is a select group of people that do indeed want to pick up some buggy whips. You just have to visit the right night clubs.

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[ILongForDarkness]

Or university frat parties, oh how I miss those days. Nothing quite like flogging demos from girls you've just met.

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[c]

I think you may be confusing buggy whips with buddy whips.

In any case, as a software developer I can't see the appeal for a buggy anything. You'd think they'd have worked out the problems and released Whip 2.0 rather than creating a whole industry around a poor product. No wonder they went out of business...

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[Attila Dimedici]

You obviously have never heard of the Amish, or of those who make money offering carriage rides.

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[Anonymous Coward]

...your iPod touch and my iPod classic play the EXACT SAME FILE. You've not made an apples to Apples comparison.

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't frats for homosexual boys to paddle each other's asses and to "experiment"?

Re:Vinyl refuses to die too

[ILongForDarkness]

That is why I didn't join one just went to the parties: skip the hazing and go straight to the parties that have girls.

Orphan to be

[PopeRatzo]

As long as there are still rockbox updates for the iPod Classic, they are viable.

I have a collection of music that is unavailable from streaming services or iTunes, and I'm not going to just give them up. Stuff that I ripped from CDs or vinyl. Not everything is available for streaming.

Re:Orphan to be

[Howitzer86]

Change the firmware to Rockbox. I intend to do this as soon as there is any hint from Apple about ending support.

Re:Orphan to be

[Howitzer86]

Woah that was dumb, I replied to the wrong comment or something. NVM.

Re: Orphan to be

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh... Yeah... It is. Google Music.

Re: Orphan to be

[PopeRatzo]

I have music in my collection that Google Music does not have.

Re:Orphan to be

[PopeRatzo]

I hate iTunes, so it's been rockbox for me for years now.

Re: Orphan to be

[Anonymous Coward]

You can upload up to 20,000 of your songs to your Google Play account.

Re: Orphan to be

[PopeRatzo]

Yeah, but it's Google.

Re: Orphan to be

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I can't argue with that. What I will say is though I would never trust Google with personal or business documents, I have no problem with them knowing what kind of music I listen to. Maybe it will encourage them to get some of it in their store.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[PopeRatzo]

and I find the interface quicker and more intuitive than my daughter's Touch.

They Touch (or iPhone) are awful as portable music players. There are a lot of people who still want a dedicated little device that will hold a ton of music and fit in their pocket.

There are lots of old technologies like this. Hell, I still have a little portable AM/FM radio for when I walk the dog and want to listen to the Blackhawks or Bulls game. Like I'll be doing in just a few minutes when the 3rd quarter starts.

physical buttons are better

[steak]

with physical buttons, you dont have to look at it to know where your inputer is on the device.

Re:physical buttons are better

[Anonymous Coward]

the same reason why touch screens in cars (or even on phones for that matter) is a horrible ui choice... yet they still push that shit on everybody because fewer parts means lower manufacturing and assembly costs and fewer mechanical parts means (in theory anyway) fewer warranty returns... and 'touch' is the marketing gimmick of the decade.

Re:physical buttons are better

[Fishchip]

This is why I like the old Shuffle, the little square one with actual buttons. I stick my hand in my pocket, I know exactly how it's oriented and what button is where. No display, no problem. Low capacity, who cares, I randomize my playlist every time I go out. It's always been my favourite iPod.

Re:physical buttons are better

[Anonymous Coward]

at least touch screens in cars stay right side up. Touch screens in airplanes are stupid stupid stupid. Fuck you garmin.

Re:physical buttons are better

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it seems like people who design UIs for mp3 players still haven't ever looked at their remote control. I guess perhaps that's the problem: if physical buttons didn't work quite so well, UI designers might notice them and use them.

Re:physical buttons are better

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to say more or less the same thing. I think Apple has lost its ability to innovate new user interfaces with its all-encompassing embrace of capacitative touchscreens. There's only so much functionality you can squeeze out of a touchscreen, and Apple has pushed the boundary too far. (You could say they've lost their touch by finding their "Touch".)

The real issue is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs' success is really Apple's Achille's Heel.

Apple's innovation came as a result of an adapt or die strategy. Jobs' second coming, as it were, resulted in a series of decisions/coincidences that became so radically successful that Apple went from niche player to mainstream icon.

The problem is: Apple can't compete, for long, in a mainstream market. The compromises they've been making are removing much of the 'exclusive appeal' of their products, which while still quite popular, will see that slowly ebb off as 'good enough' or 'lookalive' items slowly eat into their marketshare (Look at Samsung for an example, plus various Chinese 'knockoff' companies.)

Additionally an overlooked difference between the iPod Classic and the Touch is: The classic is upgradable/repairable. The same goes for pre Core-iX macs versus modern ones. Older models had upgradable memory/hard disks, albeit within bios or chipset limitations. Very few modern Apple products allow even that. Soldered down RAM, a mix of soldered down or MSATA flash drives that may or may not be accessable without complete removal of the case (Same as the HDD in the old iBooks, but not Pros.)

Apple has in fact turned into the exact kind of company they used to claim they railed against. The cookie cutter mass produced, locked down, conformity based ideal that the old '1984' ad was railing against. Their job culture was most likely always like that, but especially with all the new 'segregated temp employee' churn machines it has only gotten worse.

Re:The real issue is...

[roc97007]

> Apple has in fact turned into the exact kind of company they used to claim they railed against. The cookie cutter mass produced, locked down, conformity based ideal that the old '1984' ad was railing against. Their job culture was most likely always like that, but especially with all the new 'segregated temp employee' churn machines it has only gotten worse.

Exactly. That's it in a nutshell. We have met the enemy and he is us.

To carry this further, you can imagine Apple devices eventually be offered in those impossible-to-open hard molded plastic shells hanging up near the checkout counter. If the device is MEANT to be a throw-away, doesn't that just SCREAM "commodity"? Can Apple have it both ways? Boutique business model with disposable products? I'm thinking, not for long.

Re:The real issue is...

[ILongForDarkness]

When was the last time you upgraded a mechanical watch? Computers are different I admit because performance and other features change frequently but the idea is kind of the same: the thing can be effectively locked down but as long as you get enough value out of it over the course of its life you don't care that you can't upgrade it. If you are willing to spend $1000 a year on gadgets say then you might be willing to spend that on a Mac every few years. Throw away the old one (more realistically hand it down to a family member or sell on eBay) for all you care. It isn't very environmental which Apple likes to hype up all the time but there it is. Most people don't know how or couldn't be bothered to do upgrades. They want to buy the latest shinny within their budget and use it till they no longer want it.

Re:The real issue is...

[DigiShaman]

To carry this further, you can imagine Apple devices eventually be offered in those impossible-to-open hard molded plastic shells hanging up near the checkout counter. If the device is MEANT to be a throw-away, doesn't that just SCREAM "commodity"? Can Apple have it both ways? Boutique business model with disposable products? I'm thinking, not for long.

Apple is selling you a platform; and ideology. The hardware is merely a vessel to carry and express it. The fact the hardware is throw-away is inconsequential to the aforementioned core philosophy that Apple espouses to the market. For example, the "cloud" represents the method now.

Re:The real issue is...

[roc97007]

> When was the last time you upgraded a mechanical watch?

False argument, as you should know. I've *repaired* (not "upgraded") a mechanical watch many times. I have a pocket watch my wife gifted me when we were married 21 years ago, and I've replaced the *battery* in it countless times. You can't even replace the battery, the *battery* fer chrissake, in a modern Apple laptop. I still have my grandfather's pocket watch, with a genuine Radium dial, which has been in the shop an unknown number of times in the last 70 years, and it still keeps good time. (Although it's getting hard to find a watchmaker who will go near it...) It's not a matter of "upgrades". It's not a matter of having "the latest and greatest". You entirely miss the point. It's about the device you have, right now, doing the job just fine, and wanting it to *keep* doing that job.

Watches tell time. Newer watches are going to do what, tell time in a different way?? New ipods, are going to, like, what, make the music sound DIFFERENT?

Disposables like batteries and stress points like connectors (and wind stems) should be replaceable, and people should want to replace them instead of throwing out the device, *if*, mind you, the device is in any way decent. This is the dichotomy -- if the device is truly innovative, one should want to keep it. If it's meant to be thrown away after a few months, how innovative could it have been? You can't have it both ways.

Re:The real issue is...

[roc97007]

To carry this further, you can imagine Apple devices eventually be offered in those impossible-to-open hard molded plastic shells hanging up near the checkout counter. If the device is MEANT to be a throw-away, doesn't that just SCREAM "commodity"? Can Apple have it both ways? Boutique business model with disposable products? I'm thinking, not for long.

Apple is selling you a platform; and ideology. The hardware is merely a vessel to carry and express it. The fact the hardware is throw-away is inconsequential to the aforementioned core philosophy that Apple espouses to the market. For example, the "cloud" represents the method now.

Maybe I'm too old for this. That in no way works for me.

Re: The real issue is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Likewise. I have no interest in platforms or ecosystems. I just want something that does what I bought it to do essentially indefinitely (assuming repairs as required)

Re:The real issue is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Never really rallied against anything. Thirty years ago their advertising tried to distinguish Apple from generic PCs ("Think different"). Now they can sell shiny to millions its all lifestyle advertising. Common element is pursuit of profit. That's what corporations do. It's naive to think any corp is your friend. Bottom line is the bottom line.

Re:The real issue is...

[Attila Dimedici]

Other posters address the issue of repair-ability. But I will point out that while computers (and related devices, such as Ipods) may soon be something that people rarely, if ever, upgrade (and therefore there is no significant market for making them upgradeable), that does not address the issue the poster you replied to made.
That poster asked the question, how does a "boutique" vendor compete once they have turned their product into a commodity? They are going to discover they have the same problem which Schick and Gillette have. They both spent a lot of time and money convincing men to buy disposable razors. Then they discovered that it was hard to compete when a razor was something someone bought and threw away after a week or two. They are now spending large amounts of money to convince people to buy their razors with replaceable blades.

Re:The real issue is...

[ILongForDarkness]

A device can be innovative but that doesn't mean that it won't be improved upon with the next version, or have knockoffs that are just as good a couple years later.

You might have replaced the watch batteries yourself I suppose but would you replace the watch stem? As long, and this might be a big if, Apple continues to offer battery and other repairs, just that you have to get a tech do it for you, what does it matter if the ram is soldered in, or you need special tools to get at the battery etc? It is part of the cost of owning the device, you want to do things yourself by something else. You want a one piece screwless gadget then that is what you get whether Apple or someone else. Personally I can't stand laptops so I don't suffer from the battery issue. But I also can't stand doing computer upgrades so I don't care I can't get into the box either. Generally by the point that I start thinking I'd like more ram or what not the CPU socket has changed, SSDs have came out, etc: some major hardware advance that I'd still not be able to take advantage of with my current motherboard. I'd rather spend the money towards a new box that has USB 3, SSD, higher clocked system bus (insert whatever new coolness is out in the few years between when I got the box and I start feeling it is slow) etc than piss it away adding another 8GB of slow ram to my old piece of crap. Especially since my labor is worth a lot and I don't otherwise enjoy the process of shopping for computer parts and installing them.

Re:The real issue is...

[ILongForDarkness]

But "throw away" != "commodity". Jewelery, cars for the vast majority of people, etc are rarely upgraded after purchase. You keep them as long as they meet your needs with the occasional and often professional assistance to keep it in working order. Not being able to get into the iPod doesn't mean it can't be fixed, it just means you have to pay Apple or someone that knows what they are doing to do the work for you. But a lot of people because of the nature of tech will by the time the device starts having problems be already wishing they had the latest and greatest so a lot will chose to spend the $200 towards the next laptop or whatever rather than repair the existing obsolete one. It is the same thing with luxury cars, with the exception of the person that likes to play with them as a hobby generally you don't upgrade major parts (engine, transmission, suspension etc) because next years model will likely have other parts that are upgraded that you can't easily replace (like better seats, new dash layout, better controls for the power windows etc).

You can have brand loyalty and a premium price even if your product is consumable. It is like that with most luxury goods. Take fine wine it generally won't get you any drunker, still is single use etc, or people buying Gillette disposable razors rather than their grocery stores brand. But people will still pay a premium for a nice Bordeaux because of the real or imagined qualitative difference between a generic. Apple is that company in electronics. Someone might just pay an extra $1000 for a retina screen iMac versus a "lesser" brand (without as good of a screen at the moment) and be willing to toss it out (or more likely gift it, repurpose it as a media server etc) in 3-5 years without ever trying to upgrade it. If that 3-5 years of "premium product" is worth the price difference to me I don't care that the device is landfill afterwards where as I could have ecked out another couple years with upgrades on a generic ugly product.

Another part where Apple often wins is in how simple their product line is. You go to the PC market and you start having to compare things like: is another front USB3 port worth not having wireless ac support? How about 8GB of ram, 512GB SSD and win home vs 16GB Ram 3TB HDD and win pro? etc. you end up in an acrynonoum soup that most people don't care about. With Apple it is basically: do you want a decent device for a fair bit of money, or a pretty decent device for a crap load of money all in a pretty package. It is an A or B decision versus drawing out the decision process which with electronics generally means: I'll wait a bit because new thing X (say Broadwell) is just around the corner.

Re:The real issue is...

[roc97007]

> It is part of the cost of owning the device

The cost (being unrepairable) is too great. This is why I still have a gen 3 ipod, which is relatively easy to service, and why I abandoned Apple as a platform to run the adobe suite (necessary for my job) a few years ago. I kept my G4 going for long after Apple wanted me to pay an exorbitant price for a shiny new replacement, but when it came time for a bump in performance (mostly an increase in memory), I went back to Windows, in a PC I assembled myself, (using an enclosure I happened to have sitting around from 2001) because I just couldn't buy into the wasteful, disposable, glassy-eyed trendy, Apple culture. Mind you, I hate Windows, and I have serious problems with their business model, but it runs the Adobe suite, and that's the main point -- it's not the hardware or the OS, but what it does that's important. Similarly, my Gen 3 ipod still plays music just fine.

If that's the cost of owning a newer Apple device -- all potted and unrepairable, meant to be thrown away when the next incremental improvement becomes available -- then I'll pass, thanks. But as always, your mileage may vary, and that's fine. If you want to line up in the rain to waste money on replacements that only represent tiny improvements, I won't stand in your way.

Re:The real issue is...

[ILongForDarkness]

Usually it is major improvements for me. I buy shinny but I use the hell out of them. My current computer is a late 2008 iMac. The one before that was a 1998 PIII 450. I'm thinking about a new computer earlier than normal now because: a) I started a few months working from home 2 days a week and having comparable hardware would mean I could clone the code base and compile locally rather than use VPN, and b) I'm making crap loads of money that I'm not otherwise doing anything with. Even this "early" upgrade will be about a 2X speed improvement in the CPU, 5-10X on my usb devices, and about a 10X on the disk performance (my disk has always sucked not sure why but I get 30-40MBps out of the 1TB drive in my box, SSDs are easily in the 500MBps range).

Anyways I buy fairly high end when I buy but not very frequently and can live with the same hardware for a long time. I get my new gadget fix every 1-2 years from work and sometimes get a laptop from them to take home too (though not for the last 6 years). Since I buy high end generally their isn't support for more RAM on the mobo, the GPU slot is filled with a fairly high speced card for its generation and new generation cards will need a new bus (ex my PIII 450 had a AGP if I remember correctly which went away before (in my mind) the computer became "slow") etc. So closed but fairly maxed out box works just fine for my uses.

ecosystem outside of Apple

[dltaylor]

There is a lot of stuff out there (cars, gym equipment, for example) with connectors for the original iPods. Apple, being the %$#! they are, of course, changed those connectors, so newer Apple devices don't work with the existing ecosystem. There's an adapter for my 2004 car that works quite well with an older iPod, but nothing new. If I want to bring my library to that car, it must be in an older iPod (no USB port).

Re:ecosystem outside of Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

The *original* 5 GB iPods had a standard Firewire port and nothing else.

Never underestimate a good knob

[Anonymous Coward]

designers took away buttons, switches, faders & knobs they can still be used as a valid interface, they are not obsolete any more than a piano is, they are also foundations, physical hid elements are cool, the indented click wheel being one of them.

Re: Never underestimate a good knob

[Anonymous Coward]

Call them "haptics" and you can sell them to hipster design majors all over again for half thr price. That said, I loved my 40GB Classic, but given the choice between it and my 16GB Touch, I'm happy with the Touch. It does mail,todo,cal within wifi range, and it plays enough music (I don't need instant access to all music ever recorded, just a few dozen albums I like and rotate seasonally from my collection). A few dozen is still a damned sight more than the Discman and Walkman gear of my youth.

Have there been any useful improvements?

[dsoodak]

80 gig hard drive, 12 hour battery life, and you can work the controls by touch. Last time I checked, the IPod Touch didn't have any advantages except apps, so there isn't much point if you already have a data phone.

Re:Have there been any useful improvements?

[ILongForDarkness]

Not as big but the nanos get 30hrs battery life. I find them great for vacations. Lasts me two transatlantic flights and a bit more for any down periods. That plus a Kindle and I'm good for all the boring bits that are part of travel for a couple weeks I don't need to bother bringing international plugs etc.

Got the memo?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can build one right now, but it won't be cheap:

- Any android phone with microSD and removable back that has a "thick" back plate available for extended batteries.
- A 512GB SD card.
- A microSD-to-SD cable

In the near future Sandisk will probably be able to cram a hole TB in an SD card and Android phones with 128GB/256GB internal storage are coming.

Interface Is Key

[Dredd13]

One of the key features keeping the classic alive is also potentially its use in cars. For the longest time, even when I had an iPhone, I maintained an iPod Classic, because its UI was much move navigable one-handed while driving, to drill down to find a particular playlist, or artist, or whatever. You could, by feel alone, figure out what you were doing in many cases, only glancing at the unit to determine when to hit the select button, etc.

It wasn't until I had a car which actually integrated my iPod into its in-dash entertainment system that I finally stopped worrying about that.

Re:Interface Is Key

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that idiot car makers are putting in a touchscreens instead of knobs and buttons, again making you remove your eyes from the road. {insert angry blood pressure headache here}

With Rockbox on my iPod Video 80 GB, I have it set up with text-to-speech. I don't have to look at it at all, as it reads the highlighted menu item, artist, or track to me as I scroll through. With a simple 3.5mm-to-cassette adapter, I don't need to touch the car's controls at all.

everyone seems to be missing the point...

[Anonymous Coward]

everyone seems to be missing the point. what does the hipster value more than the newest possible apple gadget? an apple gadget that is no longer available...

People drive still drive old shitty cars

[Anonymous Coward]

News at 11.

Upgrade to 240gb

[mveloso]

Look on eBay for parts; you can upgrade your device to 240GB. It's pretty easy to do, for the most part.

Why I prefer the iPod Classic

[Anonymous Coward]

One: I am an Apple Fanboy
Two: I enjoy spending excessive amounts of money on Apple products
Three: I have money to waste
Four: I am unaware of any products that do what Apple's product do, that sell at a lower price
Five: I am a pompous asshat
Six: I participated in the Occupy Wall Street protests
Seven: I participated in the Ferguson riots, and burned down a business
Eight: I am Anonymous
Nine: I earn my money by having sex with Anonymous men that I meet at public restrooms
Ten: I am not gay
Eleven: I am a man
Twelve: I am better than you in every possible way

Re:Why I prefer the iPod Classic

[Anonymous Coward]

meh

Unix philosophy

[Anonymous Coward]

Unix philosophy. Do one thing and do it right. Same reason I have an old school e-Reader instead of an Amazon Fire. I also own a stand alone calculator and digital camera. Trying to put everything into one Tricorder type device is not the future yet. Unless your future is one device that does 10 things sub-par.

Re:Unix philosophy

[ILongForDarkness]

I agree. I'm a bit of a gadget boy too. I use my phone just for a phone and maybe 5 texts a month. I have an iPod, iPad for watching shows on my train commute, Kindle etc. I lost my kindle and tried reading on my phone and iPad: lasted a couple months and then I just had to get another eReader. When gadgets do one things they have to do them well or people will just stick with their phone/computer.

Re:Unix philosophy

[Culture20]

Unix philosophy. Do one thing and do it right. Same reason I have an old school e-Reader instead of an Amazon Fire. I also own a stand alone calculator and digital camera. Trying to put everything into one Tricorder type device is not the future yet. Unless your future is one device that does 10 things sub-par.

I agree with you on the camera, but the e-Reader? I use old-school paper-Readers. My copy of Flatland does one thing, and does it right. I own a stand-alone calculator, but I have no idea where it is. The graphing and scientific capabilities of my laptop and my phone outpace my calculator by miles. And the convenience of the smartphone-as-calculator shouldn't be overlooked. It's like a suped-up version of the late 1980's calculator wrist-watch, but not a fashion faux-pas.

I hate electronics consumer culture

[dskoll]

Yes, it's very trendy to get a new phone every year. And yes, it's fun to laugh at those neanderthals and troglodytes who have *gasp* last generation's iPod.

Now trace all those discarded electronics to their end-of-life graves and see how we're poisoning the environment with arsenic, plastics, cadmium and other toxic chemicals, all just to satisfy our craving for shiny things.

I would be proud to own a 12-year-old piece of electronic gear that still functions and does what I need. I have a five-year-old phone (Nokia N900) and bought my daughter's iPod third-hand for $30; it plays my music just fine. No plans to replace the phone or the iPod any time soon.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[TheGratefulNet]

agreed; this is why I keep harping on how lousy my google nexus one phone is (buggy as hell, totally abandoned by google in a very short time, too) - but it is physically in good shape and has not broken down, at least electrically. the software is crap, there are no real upgrades and google's attention span is like a child's. but I just CANNOT throw out working hardware that has no reason to be thrown out (other than shitty firmware; but I work around it by rebooting it often).

the 20something culture of 'throw it out, its old!' is bullshit and pisses me off bigtime. when I complain about my 'old phone' the 20 yr olds in the room immediately tell me to 'upgrade it'.

I have given up on the young kids, these days. they have no clue what they are doing with this throw-away culture of theirs.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Dutch Gun]

I wouldn't worry too much about the "throwaway" culture and the desire to get a new phone every year. The real reason this has been happening is because the technology is advancing so bloody fast. Phones will eventually reach a quality level and degree of market saturation so that it's no longer necessary or even desirable to upgrade so rapidly.

Look at what's happened with PCs. I feel people misunderstood the "decline" of the PC market significantly, declaring the era of PCs over, PCs are dead, blah, blah. Nonsense. What happened was a convergence of several factors: PC speed, power, and storage reached such a level that it was no longer necessary to upgrade every few years, since PCs even six or seven years old are perfectly capable of running most business software. CPUs became so small and powerful that a lot of previous tasks only performed by PCs could now be performed by phones or tablets. Nowadays, there's no reason to expect that a decent mid-grade PC will last you less than five years at a minimum, and maybe even a decade or more if you want to stretch it's life out.

I think a similar "market peak" will eventually occur with phones in the near future - maybe within the next five years or so. I think we're already starting to see it with tablets. At some point, people will stop caring about faster processors, more memory / storage. We've already reached the saturation point with graphics resolution, of course. More importantly, the novelty will wear off, and people will tire of spending hundreds of dollars each year for a new gizmo that does pretty much what last year's gizmo does, only a tiny big better.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Fishchip]

But the sound particles degrade over time!

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Dutch Gun]

As an old(er) fart, I would respectfully disagree. Shitty firmware and an abandoned or poorly supported product is a perfectly good reason to throw something out and get new hardware. If you're dissatisfied enough with your phone to complain about it to other people, don't then turn around and grumble that people are telling you to get a better one. What else are they supposed to suggest? Just don't make the same mistake and buy a product that doesn't work well out of the box, or buy from the same company, thus rewarding their poor after-sales service.

The way I figure it, my time and satisfaction level are both valuable to me, and I'm willing to pay for a product that performs to my satisfaction. Of course, once I find a device that's working well for me, I'll hold onto it for a long time - typically long into obsolescence. I'm not into the "replace my gadget every year or two" race, but I don't see the point in putting up with unnecessary annoyances when better alternatives exist for a very modest price.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, I'm one of the 20-something year-olds you mentioned, but if you're complaining about your 'old phone' then the only solutions are to either replace it or put up with it. Clearly you're choosing to put up with it since it still works well enough for you or you don't like the available replacement options, but don't blame the 20 year olds for providing a valid solution for your complaints.

I kept my second-hand 2005ish Razr flip phone until 2011 before finding a device that I felt suited my needs better and then kept the Razr around as a backup anyways, but if you complained about your phone I'd tell you to replace it with one you like better too based solely on the fact that you're complaining about it, and if you've already decided to put up with it anyways, stop complaining.

NOTE: When replacing a phone please either recycle it properly, give/sell/donate it to someone else, or keep it as a spare in case of damage or theft of your new phone if it's still in good working condition. There is no need to send working electronics to the scrap heap.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Nowadays, there's no reason to expect that a decent mid-grade PC will last you less than five years at a minimum, and maybe even a decade or more if you want to stretch it's life out.

too bad they're no longer engineered for quality and longevity, but rather to simply last through the three year lifespan of the typical extended warranty... and a surprising number don't even last that long.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[typhoonius]

I bought my 160 GB iPod Classic six years ago, and yes, I'm quite pleased it's still going strong, despite being dropped who-knows-how-many times and spending most of its life in my cars (often in somewhat extreme temperatures for a consumer electronics device).

I much prefer it to an iPod Touch or iPhone for playing music because of the much larger capacity, the simple interface, great battery life (even after all this time), and the physical buttons that are easy to use while driving (I can skip, pause, or replay a song without taking my eyes off the road). I much prefer it to offerings from other manufacturers because it has a cleaner interface, syncs automatically with iTunes (all I have to do is plug it in every few weeks when it needs a charge), and use databases and metadata in an intelligent way. All the other players I've seen have busy, garish interfaces, have controls that may approach but can't match the elegance of the click wheel, and use the file system for both adding music from the computer and playing it from the device, which is far from ideal, even with a well organized collection.

Really, the only substantial ways Apple could have improved it would be to switch to flash memory (say 256 GB, for even better battery life, reliability, thinness, and probably most importantly, parts availability) and switch out the old dock connector for Lightning. It's remarkable that the iPod has fallen so far from prominence since the iPhone that it isn't worth updating it at all anymore.

Unfortunately, my iPod won't last forever; the hard drive or the battery will eventually give out. I'll do my best to find parts and keep it going, but it would be nice if there were something on the market I would consider for a replacement. From my perspective, there isn't; everything else falls short.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[epyT-R]

well duh.. if you're complaining about your old phone, it's natural for someone to suggest upgrading it.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Anonymous Coward]

recycle? what are you? one of those 20something hipster faggots?

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Cochonou]

Would you call keeping old hardware a "counterculture" then? Because I certainly see a lot of this behaviour around.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[GuB-42]

Here we are not talking about keeping devices for many years, we are talking about people who buy outdated technology for inflated prices.
Keeping a N900 for 5 years = smart, buying a N900 in 2014 for $1000 = stupid
Buying an iPod third-hand for $30 = smart, buying the same iPod for $500 = stupid
There are exceptions of course, like when the old product has a niche feature you really need that isn't present in the newer models. Or in a professional setting, where the device is part of a system and you just want a replacement rather than a very costly upgrade.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[GuB-42]

The N1 isn't lousy, it's old, it has a tiny internal flash memory by todays standards and may have trouble running the latest apps but beside this, it should run perfectly fine. The crashes are not normal. Wipe, install a good, stable ROM, don't try to do more than the hardware is capable of and you should be OK, unless you have hardware problems of course.

And if people tell you to upgrade, it's not just because of the throw-away culture, it's because they see that you are not satisfied with your phone. Proof is : you are complaining.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Blaskowicz]

I hate the culture as much as you but with these fscking computer phones there was an upgrade cycle like what we did when replacing 386 with 486 then 486 with Pentium. At least a computer phone with 1024MB or 512MB RAM and 4GB or 8GB flash is a bit more useful at some things that one with 128MB RAM and 512MB flash. But it's plateaued now : there was so much hype but the massive improvements don't last forever. CPUs had dramatic growth in the 90s and GPUs in the 2000s and now both are improving relatively slow.
On phones, that leaves us with the unacceptable support which have some people forced to go with Apple of all things, or with a dumphone. So now we can hope the phones are "mature" and hope Android 5.x, Cyanogenmod, Firefox OS or Windows Phone will provide updates but being in the situation of begging for updates and not knowing if you get them one year from now is seriously wrong.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[Blaskowicz]

Laptops maybe, but desktops seem to be very strong. Motherboard capacitors are reliable, PSUs generally are reliable, chipset is only provided by Intel or AMD with northbridge inside the CPU instead of a separate chip, power consumption went down, memory is decent (around 2002 was when it was the worst).
I believe a modern desktop can last a fucking long time, though you'll of course eventually get one dead component (HDD, DRAM etc.) or dried thermal paste. Or people throw it out when the OS is hosed. Easy to repair (really) but uneconomical if you don't do it yourself. People need to be less rich and have more free time lol.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[dskoll]

I think a similar "market peak" will eventually occur with phones in the near future

I'm not sure about that. Apple is extremely good at driving people to buy new things as a fashion statement, even if the underlying technology is more-or-less the same. That's the problem: Consumer electronic goods are becoming fashion items and that's extremely bad for the environment.

As for another poster who wrote Shitty firmware and an abandoned or poorly supported product is a perfectly good reason to throw something out, well maybe. But I was talking about old, perfectly functional devices.

Re:I hate electronics consumer culture

[ButchDeLoria]

Yes, if you're going to partake in frequently updating your consumer electronics, at least have the decency to sell or give away your old stuff. Reuse beats the hell out of recycle. Given the explosion in mobile phones for impoverished peoples (India and parts of Africa immediately come to mind), people will happily buy any phones. Manufacturers are currently rushing to create the perfect $30-40 smartphone, but donating an old Nokia sitting in your closet can help hold someone over until someone perfects the cheapo smartphone, if not satisfy all of their immediate needs.

A potential alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps the most suitable (in terms of cost and audio) contemporary alternative is the FiiO X5. Though, it requires separately purchased SD cards (up to 2) to make up the storage space.

N.B. I haven't used the device nor am I affiliated with the company in any way.

Re:A potential alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

That is, "cost and audio quality".

Ipod or iphone

[thangdesign]

Now, there are few users ipod because there iphone

Re:Ipod or iphone

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, some understand words few place miss, what?

Or use a player with an SD card slot?

[Andy_R]

Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a non-hard drive based player that takes SD cards, now that SD cards are available with larger capacities?

Re:Or use a player with an SD card slot?

[David_Hart]

Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a non-hard drive based player that takes SD cards, now that SD cards are available with larger capacities?

I have the iPod Classic 7th Gen. It has a 160GB hard drive, fast USB 2.0 chipset, and a hard-drive interface. This means that loading songs is quick, rebuilding the music library is quick, and there is little lag between changing playlists, etc.

The non hard-drive based mp3 players tend to have a slower USB chipset or a slower processor. This makes loading songs take 5x as long, rebuilding or refreshing the music library takes 30 minutes or more, etc. For example, I have a Sansa Clip+ and just bought a new 64GB SDXC 90MB/s card (Black Friday deal). Transfers to and from the SDXC card using a USB 3.0 memory card reader is very quick. However, synching my full library plus podcasts (50GB of songs) for the first time through the Clip+ took all night (I just started it and went to bed). The point is that few of the memory based MP3 players were designed with the processing power to handle large libraries.

In addition, only iPods have full integration with most modern car head units (Playlists, art work, steering wheel control, etc.).

Re:Or use a player with an SD card slot?

[Anonymous Coward]

synching my full library plus podcasts (50GB of songs) for the first time through the Clip+ took all night

When you say "for the first time" i assume you were using something that does partial updates in the background, like rockbox, rather than the painful full, totally locked out of the device, media scan of the original firmware, if not, install rockbox immediately, it's so much nicer, the improvement in audio quality is reason enough.

Sometimes more isn't better

[Anonymous Coward]

I often put my ipod in my back jeans pocket and walk around with it. If I want to change volume or change songs, I can manipulate the buttons through the jeans. With a touch screen I can't just control the device. I have to look at it and figure out where to press. I don't want a touch screen which is not easy to see in direct sunlight. I want something with buttons I can control.

Nor surprising ...

[gstoddart]

I am not surprised by this at all.

My music collection alone is 78GB (and, yes, it's all ripped from CDs I own). The digital copies of movies I've collected over the years is 200GB.

With a Classic with 160GB of storage, I can have my entire CD collection, and a bunch of movies.

Killing the product was shortsighted, because finding something with that much capacity is pretty difficult.

Unfortunately, my Classic is no longer with me, which is annoying. No fancy touch, no apps, no OS to update (and probably break the device) ... none of the crap, just a big honking iPod which held a ton of stuff.

But, apparently companies are only interested in the new hotness, even if the old school model is still a fine product.

Re: Nor surprising ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Finding an IDE drive in 1.8" form factor is improbable.

Re:Nor surprising ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Killing the product was shortsighted, because finding something with that much capacity is pretty difficult.

You haven't looked at all, have you? There are a lot of good media players which support microSD. You can buy a 64GB microSD for around $30 and a 128GB for around $80.

For a player, I recommend the SanDisk Clip+ or Clip Zip. Either can be had for about $30.

give thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

I have read your post,, and i think i agree with you . i can use some more information in there,thanks for share..................LIKE|Frozen games

sansa story

[Ragica]

Despite having had a phone and tablet, I still use my sandisk sansa e200-series mp3 player daily. I've owned the newer sansa clip, fuse and fuse+, but I just keep going back to an e-series... the perfect device for me, with rockbox installed. It's small, and tactile, and has fantastic battery life, and microSD slot. The design is a sort of clunkier miniature iPod classic. I can operate it completely (rockbox has voice menus) in my pocket without looking, or from a lanyard hanging around my neck. I also use the sleep timer, and variable speed play back (for audio books) a lot.

And there were years when you could get these things pretty cheap on ebay, because in the ipod/ipod touch frenzy, only an enlightened few seemed to want these things. Well, the enlightened few (mostly rockbox users) still cling to this device, but they are getting harder to find... and in recent years the price is going up. Though they are still usually well under $100; sometimes even under $50. I have a couple of them hoarded for myself. I fear the day when they break down (i've gone through a few of them) and I can find no more sources.

Though, also I earnestly have hoped through the years that something better could come along. I hoped my android devices, with suitable software, would take over... but they have not managed it. The ability to operate the thing blind, it's size and battery life, (and the handy lanyard attachment spot!) just keep it in use...

Rockbox also runs on ipod classic, and I've considered many times getting an iPod classic to run rockbox... it seems like they'd work similarly to my sansas, but they (like most apple products) are just too damned expensive. Also bigger and heavier.

Re:sansa story

[nolife]

I looked around for my E200 running rockbox (3.7.1) after reading your post. Found it in a the bottom of a drawer in my spare room. Hit the power button, it fired up with 20% battery and started playing from where it left off the last time I used it. I don't know the self discharge rate of the battery but I swear it was at least 2 years since I last touched it.
   

Re:sansa story

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm personally very fond of my Sansa clip+, and the Sansa Clip Zip i've got as a backup isn't a bad little thing either, both of them run rockbox very nicely, have decent enough battery life and are expandable with microSD, it's not that i don't want to use my phone for audio playback, but the lack of an SD slot and the relatively poor battery life make these things far more sensible. Sadly it appears that Sandisk don't appreciate the minor success of their players as a platform for rockbox, or indeed as a pretty capable little MP3 player even with the OF, as their latest player is a stripped down device with a crap interface, based on a low-end soc that will likely never be capable of supporting the thing, even if anyone bothers to consider porting... Sandisk, really, what the hell is wrong with you lot?!

Re:sansa story

[i work on computers]

I bought a Sansa Clip. I loved it for exercising, but it stopped working after a few months. Thinking I did something bad to it, I bought another. Same story. I think I must sweat more than whoever tested that product.

Re:sansa story

[Waccoon]

The reason I bought an m200 series is specifically because it runs off an AAA battery. I figured it wouldn't crap out on me after a year since the battery is easily replaceable, unlike all the devices with built-in lithium batteries.

It still works perfectly, and I still use it, at least at my drawing desk. I'm also finding it very difficult to part with it, despite the lack of storage.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[Anonymous Coward]

They Touch (or iPhone) are awful as portable music players.

No, no, you're confused. The revolutionary ergonomics of the clickwheel control that Apple told us was the most natural control ever ceased to be any good as soon as Apple developed a touchscreen that could sell apps where they get a 30% cut.

KISS Principle

[AresRC]

Keep It Simple Stupid. The thing is a tank compared to the new models, and has a considerably larger capacity. Why the hell would anyone want to 'upgrade' to a shittier model? Until 2 years ago when I picked up my Galaxy S3, I was still rocking a flip phone. Why? Because most networks didn't have enough stable 3G coverage, and I wasn't sold on the durability of a touchscreen phone. Until Apple comes out with an actual upgrade to the iPod line, I'm quite happy to continue using my 5th gen Classic.

Re:KISS Principle

[SternisheFan]

The S3 handles a 64gb sdcard, which is perfect for my current mp3 collection. The company that markets a dedicated music player that takes full advantage of todays tech for a decent price gets my money. Until then, there are always imperfect alternatives.

Silly kiddos

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't imagine why Apple's not dead...

another in a series

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just another in a series of really poor hardware line-up planning.

They've stopped selling their only good, dedicated MP3 player.
Simultaneously, they made their phone so big that it cannibalized iPad sales; which were already suffering because the mini had made the behemoth air and its better margins undesirable.

There's a reason Steve Jobs advised against building a small tablet.

As much as I don't love touchscreens...

[damn_registrars]

I could never stand the interface of the original iPod. Apparently though, I was the only person ever to live who did not like that silly interface (or so I have been told many many times). While touchscreens aren't really much of an improvement in phones, IMHO, they made a huge improvement for music players.

iTunes Match

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just a ploy to sell more subscriptions to iTunes Match.

Olf school ipod

[Anonymous Coward]

.. with the hard drive replaced with an equivalent weight/volume of ssd storage would be amazing.

Re: you can have my classic when you pry it from e

[wesgray]

No you're wrong the 1.8" hard drives are no longer available from Toshiba.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[ZipK]

Hell, I still have a little portable AM/FM radio for when I walk the dog and want to listen to the Blackhawks or Bulls game.

The Sangean DT-200X is a sweet pocket radio. 19 presets, physical buttons that can be operated without lookig, and it can pull broadcasts out of the ether with no net.

apple is screwed

[Anonymous Coward]

jobs was all about elegant simplicity and with his passing all you have left at the company now are unimaginative money hungry morons.

Opportunity

[iamacat]

High capacity music/video players may be too small of a business for Apple, but a huge business for the right startup. A slightly larger device with a laptop hard drive can easily hit 1TB capacity. Even horse buggies are still a profitable business. This one will be big enough to support thousands of jobs for decades to come.

I still use my Sansa

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool story bro. I still use my Sansa almost daily. The amount of people still using one or the current selling price of them is not relevant to my experience with it. If they cost 0 or $500, nothing changes for me.

Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets drum up demand for an old and outdated media player someone can flip for a large markup?

Another Reason

[redback]

I have heard of people using them in workplaces that do not allow personal networkable devices in the building for security reasons.

Re:Another Reason

[Anonymous Coward]

I have heard of people using them in workplaces that do not allow personal networkable devices in the building for security reasons.

I hadn't thought of this. I work in such a building. Unfortunately where I am the rule is is 'no object that transmits radio' and 'nothing that plugs into USB', so tablets and phones are banned and laptops must have the wifi cards physically removed -- and music players fall victim too, to the no usb rule. We can have CD players though, yeah! and one-way pagers if we want to stay in contact with the outside world.

Re:Another Reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Gen1 iPod. Firewire only, no USB.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[fafaforza]

Pfft, I've replaced the headphone jack on my 80gb classic probably more than half a dozen times :) Drive still pulling strong. The LCD is starting to go, after I dropped it the umpteenth time.

But I like how people say the classic is antiquated, meanwhile, I don't have to take mine out of the pocket to go between tracks or change volume. Yeah, I guess I can be stuck with a set of earbuds that have the necessary buttons for play/pause/next, and I can try to hit those tiny rocker volume buttons on the side. But I think I'll stick with my choice of headphone and analog volume control. Not having those buttons also means the cable won't keep getting caught on my collar all the time.

Drats...

[fafaforza]

I was trying to build up my credit card's rewards points to get a new 80gb Classic and retire my 2007 model as my car media drive. Works well with the Sony head unit. Got up to 25k of the 33k points needed only to find out that the Classic was removed from their list.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[PopeRatzo]

I use the DT-400W. Have owned Sangean for years. It's got a little speaker for when I'm shaving and it's tough as nails. I've dropped it countless times, it lasts forever on a pair of AA batteries and pulls in the stations like a boss.

For some reason, mobile phone apps like iHeartRadio or TuneInRadio don't carry the local sports teams' games, but my radio gets them no problem. Sometimes, I even prefer listening to games on the radio to TV, when the announcers are really good like the team that does the Blackhawks. Or I have the game on TV with the sound turned down and the radio on with earbuds.

Car Jukebox....

[David_Hart]

Bluetooth works but it sucks for music quality and you only have rudimentary controls on the head unit. Most of it has to be controlled from the device itself, which is dangerous when driving. Plus, this drains the phone battery unless you charge it at the same time.

Most modern cars have USB ports, but it's a little more complicated to create playlists on memory cards.

The Apple iPod interface is a mainstay in many modern cars. You have full integration with steering wheel controls and most head units. In addition, the iPod gets power from the same interface, so you are not draining your phone battery.

I use Microsoft Media Player because I love it's automatic play lists and I hate iTunes. I bought the MgTek DOPISP add-in to enable synching with iPods. With the iPod Classic 160GB, I can sync my entire music library plus podcasts,

Re:Car Jukebox....

[profplump]

Bluetooth audio quality is fine if you use something with A2DP support. Not everything does, but it's well worth the effort to find things that do -- then you can get regular AAC or aptX or other reasonable codecs at respectable rates.

Re:Car Jukebox....

[djrobxx]

> Bluetooth works but it sucks for music quality and you only have rudimentary controls on the head unit.

I've seen bluetooth interfaces that support what looks like the full iPod interface (playlist selection, listing tracks within playlist). There are also bluetooth profiles that allow an iPod to just send an AAC stream to the head unit for decoding. So I think both of those concerns are mostly solved unless you need lossless quality audio.

There's actually a gizmo that almost provides a bluetooth-to-iPod interface with full playlist selection support and whatnot, and supposedly it uses one of the higher quality audio profiles

http://www.amazon.com/ViseeO-W...

Eating the Dog Food

[Zanadou]

Submitter's source links to news.dice.com

Uh huh, this is how it's going to work now, is it?

Best User interface

[dprimary]

Have your touchscreen device in your pocket, start a song, find a song, go back in a song, forward in a song, change the volume, skip a song, cue, pause all without looking at it. Even with uncompressed audio it holds hundreds of songs.

Rotating hard disk memory...

[dbc]

... just has a warmer sound.

FiiO X5

[Anonymous Coward]

That is all. Plays more, mechanical interface gives one tactile feedback for control without looking. High res audio. Nice.

$20,000?

[aussersterne]

From the look of things, this is already happening:

http://www.terapeak.com/blog/2...

no ipod here

[ihtoit]

I use an old touchscreen phone - ZTE F930. Infinite amount of storage potential with its microSD slot, built in speaker, music through bluetooth option as well if I want it, 3MP camera with video, I can even still make emergency calls on it (no SIM in it). Oh, and it charges using a standard miniB USB (which I can tether for data as well) and has a standard 3.5mm headphone jack. Oh, and 2.4 inch screen - that plays video at VCD resolution and framerate. Not the biggest in the world, but a: it's designed as a budget phone, b: if I wanted a phablet I'd've bought a Galaxy Tab, c: I don't want a phablet, d: it's the perfect spec for an ipod killer that makes even diehard ipodders who've seen it go "Dafuq is that!?".

Phone cost me £35 new and boxed in 2010.

Good for video too...

[XxtraLarGe]

I used to have an 80 GB iPod up until about a year ago. I was able to load up a whole boatload of movies, and connect it to a TV using an RCA cable that plugged into the headphone jack.

add bluetooth and allow pairing with iphones/etc

[ThorGod]

I never understood why they didn't allow the use of these as "portable hard drives". Apple only marks up their iPads $100 per 32 gigs. They could sell 2x the i-devices by simply adding some bluetooth support.

Re: you can have my classic when you pry it from

[Anonymous Coward]

Are micro IDE drives available from *any* supplier ?

Re: add bluetooth and allow pairing with iphones/e

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't immediately clear to me:

I like the idea of my music player being storage for ip[ao]d.

iPod Classic is not that ancient..

[Anonymous Coward]

People pay the price, because, it has more storage, and can fit large amounts of losslessly encoded audio and large collections of lossy music..

Whereas iPhone and iPod Touch's and iPod Nano's cannot hold much lossless music, and may be unable to hold a persons entire music collections.

Some people only want these devices for music/video playback, and find them perfectly adequate.

Now, what is behind Apple killing off the iPod? probably, to push people to more expensive and more profitable options that support their ad-based / app based infrastructure. http://www.obamasweapon.com/

stolen

[basecastula]

I still wish I had my stolen 12gb classic. That shit was the shit. No iTunes needed.

Re:stolen

[basecastula]

*120gb

Couldn't Find Parts

[linuxrocks123]

Some people over on Apple.com forums are claiming that the hard disk that went into the iPod classic isn't being made anymore and that Apple therefore was essentially was forced to discontinue the product, because they couldn't find parts for it. Obviously they could try to find another supplier, make the hard drives themselves, etc., etc., but I guess the ROI wasn't there for them to bend over backwards to keep it going.

Re:Couldn't Find Parts

[Anonymous Coward]

If I were in any kind of influential position at Apple, I would find a way to get a new source for whatever parts they needed then announce a new model next year with a higher, profit-appropriate derived price. Who cares if they don't sell billions? There is clearly demand, Apple should take advantage. Make them limited to a certain production number every year if Apple wants to create an artificial scarcity situation for them. Hell, make them online only if you don't want to send them to stores. This shows there is demand and people are willing to pay some fairly high prices. Give the people what they want and take their money.

I must be doing something wrong

[folderol]

I'm still using my iRiver H320. It works perfectly, has plenty of space on the mini HD and I was able to replace the battery about a year ago.

Nice physical buttons that can be navigated without looking.
Standard 3.5mm plugs.
Presents as mass storage on USB.
Handles mp3, Ogg-Vorbis, Flac, Wav and some vid formats (can't remeber which - never use them)

RockBox

[starseeker]

I still use an Ipod Gen5 with RockBox, because a) it works and b) I get to use an open source firmware, which means I don't have to worry about whether $BIG_VENDOR has bothered to support OGG/FLAC/etc files.

Admittedly technology is moving on, but from the standpoint of a device that does one thing and does it well the older Ipods with RockBox do just fine. Why upgrade just for the heck of it?

Heck, i've still got an old iRiver T30 tucked away somewhere that takes AA batteries, which I'm not inclined to get rid of either... small, functional, and does the job.

As computer technology matures, hopefully we'll start to see at least some boutique shops crop up whose goal is to make the IBM Model M keyboard equivalent of things like music players - I'd gladly pay a premium for a device engineered to last 30 years instead of 3.

New ipods need more hard drive space.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I cling on to my ipod classic. Where can I get 120 gb hard drive space on the latest ipod touch? All I see are 16 gb or 32 gb and some of that already is taken up with pre-loaded stuff so I wouldn't even get the full 16 gb or 32 gb or what ever low number they are offering me. I use the mp3 player to play music not games. Apple forgets about us music lovers.

Despite

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite having had a phone and tablet, I still use my sandisk sansa e200-series [wikipedia.org] mp3 player daily. I've owned the newer sansa clip, fuse and fuse+, but I just keep going back to an e-series... the perfect device for me, with rockbox installed. It's small, and tactile, and has fantastic battery life, and microSD slot. The design is a sort of clunkier miniature iPod classic. I can operate it completely (rockbox has voice menus) in my pocket without looking, or from a lanyard hanging around my neck. I also use the sleep timer, and variable speed play back (for audio books) a lot.
Rockbox also runs on ipod classic, and I've considered many times getting an iPod classic to run rockbox... it seems like they'd work similarly to my sansas, but they (like most apple products) are just too damned expensive. Also bigger and heavier.

http://freedownloadsofts274.blogspot.com/

When I'm 64...

[pubwvj]

Someday you'll get the memo, when you're old and grey, that just because you're old does not mean you're no longer functional. Or maybe you'll just go impotent...

Re:When I'm 64...

[vandamme]

I'm 67, and I'm neither. I also have some electronic gear that's almost as old as I am, and also still works.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[Bing Tsher E]

That's one of those new fangled wireless receivers, isn't it? The new wireless technology really rocks. I understand there are TV sets now where you only have to attach power.

Streaming? Please...

[Anonymous Coward]

Streaming music is nowhere near reliable enough to replace music actually on a device.

Everytime I've tried to use anything that streams, interruptions and glitches are frequent to the point that such services are unusable. If I can't even get through a full album without dropped audio, I'm not even remotely interested.

Me too

[pbjones]

I have a 60GB iPod with all of my music and podcasts in my bedroom still getting daily use. And there is an original U2 iPod unused in original shrink wraped box in my cupboard.

iPod Classic is a part in many music systems

[gig]

There are a lot of music systems where the iPod Classic is the “media.” Could be in a car or a home or a DJ setup. There is a spot where you attach an iPod Classic full of music and you are good to go. If you don't have an iPod Classic, then you have to do some re-architecture of that music system. So this post-retirement demand for iPod Classics is very much like if Duracell discontinued a particular battery. You would see people who have systems that use that battery go out and buy a bunch of them in order to extend the lives of those systems for the next few years.

Still have an iPod Touch 1G!

[antdude]

I wished I could use non-Apple firmware. I am currently using Whited00r. I also dislike having to use iTunes even if it is a (thi/3)rd party software.

Re:you can have my classic when you pry it from et

[Anonymous Coward]

This radio is much better.

Jam tangan murah

[Anonymous Coward]

thats is good info jam tangan murah

Long live large hard drive mp3 players

[neminem]

Except not, because they're already dead, which is depressing. If mine ever dies, which it will, because hard drives do that, I'm *screwed*.

I will admit that I don't need a large local hard drive when:
  * I can get unlimited data
  * I can get it anywhere on the planet
  * It is *reliable* anywhere on the planet
  * I can get it for free or close to free

Obviously none of those things are even remotely close to true right now, and none of them are likely to become true anytime soon. Until then, I would like all my music with me while I'm driving in the car, without having to pay out the rear for it, without it losing signal, and whether I'm driving around town, or 300 miles out in the middle of nowhere.

But nobody sells them anymore, so I'm kinda screwed when this one dies. (I don't have an iPod - the largest they went up to is 160gb, if I recall correctly. That is *not big enough*.)

Dear Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Please make a 30-pin iPod that accepts SD cards and works on iTunes/Legacy car systems.

We'll pay a lot for it.

Music streaming meh!

[jbee02]

So not the way of the future. Its nice and all but it doesnt compate to having your own music library. A good way to discover new music so you can add it to your library but i wouldnt ever replace it with music streaming

Ipod classic design

[jbee02]

For a simple music player the ipod classic still has the superior design. For simple volume control and song skiping that circle touchpad was far easier to use than a touch screen. I kind of wished the iphones would have one on its back.

sounds great

[Anonymous Coward]

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