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Russia Says Drivers Must Not Have "Sex Disorders" To Get License
mrspoonsi writes Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licenses. Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving. The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents. "Pathological" gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list. Russian psychiatrists and human rights lawyers have condemned the move. The announcement follows international complaints about Russian harassment of gay-rights activists.
... Putin don't drive!
Will this include the typical Russian Elite who purchases small girls for sex?
Man, I'd be a better driver with my wanker removed. "Distractuious" women have caused most of my near misses.
Table-ized A.I.
And yet alcoholism is not on this list of disorders that lead to increased road accidents...
It's only a disorder if it has a major negative impact on a person or society. The major negative impact from TG people is only that which society places on them and thus an unnatural impact. Simply being taboo is not a reason for discrimination against something.
The Russian economy is collapsing, the Ruble has plumetted, all because the entire economy depend on gas and oil sales and the price of oil has dropped due to fracking.
Putin, the election rigger, is to blame. So how do you draw attention away from Putin's failure to run the economy?
So his spin men have chosen a minority to attack, in this case transgender people, so he can whip up the homophobic portion of Russia and get them arguing with the more tolerant people, and nobody is looking at him, his failure and his corrupt dictatorship.
http://government.ru/media/fil...
That's a weird criterion to use. So if my tuberculosis is under control, it's not a disease?
That's a weird criterion to use. So if my tuberculosis is under control, it's not a disease?
Tuberculosis is contagious, and thus has a negative impact on society. Transgenderism is not contagious. If I dress up in women's lingerie, that doesn't mean you have to.
"Darling, you look absolutely smashing, tonight!..."
Table-ized A.I.
The Russian government has gone off the deep end. I guess they read Hitler's playbook.
Funnily enough, diseases and disorders don't mean the same thing. That's why we have two words for them.
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.
Since Putin apparently likes to ride around half-naked on horse-back?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
are generally full of fear and insecurity.
Even though they act tough.
The Russian government is rabid with fear at the moment.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
http://government.ru/media/fil...
The second page of that document contains a list of disorders, as classified by the ICD-10, that prohibit one from driving -- numbers in the right column. The descriptions are here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10_Chapter_V:_Mental_and_behavioural_disorders
As you see, F60-F69 includes all of the following:
(F64) Gender identity disorders
(F64.0) Transsexualism
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood
(F65) Disorders of sexual preference
(F65.0) Sexual fetishism
(F65.1) Fetishistic transvestism
(F65.2) Exhibitionism
(F65.3) Voyeurism
(F65.4) Paedophilia
(F65.5) Sadomasochism
There is no such thing as a mental disorder in science and there is no science behind the list of "mental" disorders listed by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). This manual is essentially a fraud and at the core of psychology. While there is no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of screwed up people there isn't a straightforward answer or solution to the problem. Psychology is a fraud- made up to take the money from those who can least protect themselves.
The list of disorders is a made up list by psychologists voting on what should be a “disorder”. It's not based on science and the industry which pushes drugs as the solution don't even know how these drugs work or what the causes of the supposed disorders are.
It's not ones sexuality that has a negative impact which is essentially what justifies calling these disorders or many anyway disorders. There is on the other hand a societal problem of people abusing those who don't or can't conform. It doesn't matter if its the color of your skin or your sexual interests.
Here is a good example: Why did they remove homosexuality and not pedophilia from the list? You might think it's because pedophiles are a danger. However it makes absolutely no sense logically speaking. It's pretty safe to assume most people have something called self-control even if they are in a sexual minority. They don't just go out and rape people at random no matter how difficult it is to find a sexual partner. So where is the evidence it is somehow different for pedophilia? The reality is there is no evidence at all. Physiologists can't even begin to conduct studies that hold up to scientific scrutiny because the legal system and society has ensured those who have not acted criminally (ie raped a child, etc) are excluded from the study (ie no human being is going to answer these questions who has not committed a crime and been convicted because it risks employment, housing, and potentially even jail time regardless of any crime- even if the study is supposedly anonymous).
Transgender people often end up having myriads of surgeries, taking many pills (often until they get cancer), seeing psychologists for years, and spend most their lives being unhappy until some time after the switch. So yeah, it's a problem for them and it goes way beyond wearing clothes. For the most part, I think society does a good job helping and understanding them. There are also many government programs in place. Maybe you don't see these things because of your own biases.
But, as it was mentioned before, this is unrelated to driving and it seems Russia is just enacting more discrimination.
it crushes political maturity and instead offers worship of one super strong super tough exkgb goon putin, like north korean cult of personality bullshit
rather than diversify the economy it tries to become a petrostate (now with crashing oil prices)
it panders to simpleminded fears and hatred now with gays and sexual minorites, so it is culturally and socially rotting too
is russia trying to weaken as best as it can?
with a surging imperialist china, which has a border dispute with every single one of its neighbors: stealing land from india, stealing philippine/ vietnamese/ japanese islands, etc... how long until china says "fuck it" and just flat out takes siberia from sick pathetic dying russia?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
well, if your blond hair and tendency to draw satire is under control, then it's not a disorder that you're a blond satire cartoonist.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
In the US Army, this is classified as a mental disorder, and will bar one from enlisting, or could bring adverse actions for those already enlisted.
http://www.sldn.org/pages/transgender-people-and-military-service
Looks like a woman, drives like a man? An accident waiting to happen. You don't want to play chicken with the rooster.
"negative impact on society"
read that again
then respond
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And a lot of the reason for them being unhappy is how the rest of the world treats them. That's not their fault. As to the rest, well, presumably it's being done because it's better than the alternative.
Ezekiel 23:20
It's only a disorder if it has a major negative impact on a person or society. The major negative impact from TG people is only that which society places on them and thus an unnatural impact. Simply being taboo is not a reason for discrimination against something.
Logic fail. You are now confusing disorder and discrimination. For example homosexuality is a type of a disorder but it should not be discriminated as it causes no harm.
False, it's a harmless side effect of a useful trait.
Ezekiel 23:20
You don't understand the issue. You've heard of alien hand syndrome, yes? It's where your brain is telling you that your body is wrong in some way. It's not fixable and not a choice. It's not a disorder that hurts anyone else, but it will completely fuck up your life. The only way to get your brain to stop destroying everything good in your life is to change your body. No one at any point is being coddled, for most people the best outcome is a slightly better circle of hell, and only after what is invariably the worst time of your life.
You only get one life, and for a huge percentage of transgender people, between the options of life with body dysphoria and self-mutilation, death is a preferable alternative. And yes, even if you are transgender, it's still (more or less) thought of as a mutilation, a relatively risky procedure with many drawbacks, a chance of terrible complications, and a lifetime of medication afterwards. In a few centuries when gene splicing is perfected, your style of bigotry will still exist, because it has nothing to do with the state of medical science and everything to do with rejecting others who are different. And believe it or not, no one really cares what your opinion is — no one is going to try to change your mind about it. If you think it is okay to contribute to the torment and suicide of other people, we clearly have opposite notions of morality, but so be it. What we are going to do is insist that you not be a bigoted asshole in public, and especially not in public office and public legislation.
The major negative impact from TG people is only that which society places on them and thus an unnatural impact.
Yes, just wait until some of them get beaten up or killed on the streets as a result of this policy.
Then, they'll probably also be barred from taking public transportation or using the sidewalks, to avoid the poor other citizens from beating up on them.
They should ban politicians with mental disorders such as fixations on other people's lives - such cause far more harm to society than any other class of people.
Which is the point...Putin is an unreconstructed Chekist and will continue to distract his oppressed population with this and other nonsense, plus of course more serious meddling like Ukraine and Syria.
Since the average Russian is typically homophobic, racist, and "patriotic", this is an easy play.
Putin is mired in corruption, has totally failed to deliver on economic & political reforms and re-balancing the economy and the Ruble is tanking in the wake of falling oil prices.
So expect plenty more of this rubbish.
Actually improving road safety would involve "hard" stuff like tackling endemic police and court corruption, drink driving (although the legal limit is theoretically zero), anti-social attitudes and quasi-mafia idiots driving too fast in SUVs equipped with automatic weapons and large lights on the back specifically designed to blind people following them.
Ever wondered why you see so many youtube videos of "funny" things on Russian roads? It's because many people have dashboard cams to support their case with the insurance company when the inevitable accident happens; it really is that bad.
The CD-10 is an international standard WHO document.
If the world is so hung up on this, then perhaps they can take it upon themselves to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from their own book of definitions.
Chess, anyone?
> While pshycology is not as easy as other medicine and physics, there is no doubt that it is a science,
There is certainly _some_ science. But a tremendous amount of it is theory driven nonsense. Look at how psychological and psychiatric was limited until the discovery of seasonal affective disorder, the better diagnosis and treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder, and the unfurling of phobias from the "hidden memory theories" that Freud popularized.
The reference to David Miscavige and Tom Cruise looks like a reference to Scientology, which makes clearly fraudulent claims about "scientific" discovers but are actually rooted in hypnosis and conditioning under a lie detector.
You know, maybe next we should just put them all in camps, concentrate them, so they're away from "decent" people. And then, perhaps, make them wear something so we all know who they are, like a pink triangle or something?
Of course, these are all just temporary measures; I'm sure we'll ultimately come up with a better Final Solution...
-Styopa
Resident or expats, please try to fill in the blanks.
Is there simply enough anti-homosexual bias in Russian culture, as in much of the USofA, for Putin to make political "points" by picking on them?
Is he thinking of using a relatievly powerless "out" group for a Kristallnacht if the economy experiences problems due to falling oil prices?
Pay-back, which he is known to do, for not supporting his acquisition of power?
Wild idea: is he thinking he can pressure homosexuals to produce more children as as some sort of social "cover", to build a population for a war?
Something else?
The authors of this law were, it seems to me, (if I can depend on the translation being close to accurate), fairly rigorous in their definitions so as to make it clear that only conditions which actually affect one's ability to drive safely are listed.
And how exactly is (F64.0) Transsexualism affecting your ability to drive?
You, and the mods who gave you points, are either ignorant or biased to the point of imbecility.
Putin has already been clearly shown to use the most tenuous pretexts to use Russia's courts to beat, imprison & kill his opponents. Changing the laws so that the F64 & F65 codes disqualify people from having a drivers license WILL be used.
Putins goons will stop & strip search critics just as they do now. They'll just replace his underwear with ladies & boom, F65.1: No drivers licence for you, pervert...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Having a fetish is a disorder? That's... going to cover a really huge percentage of the human species. Maybe it doesn't count if you don't act on it, but it's still a preference (as in, "Disorders of sexual preference")...
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
From Wikipedia:
(F64) Gender identity disorders
(F64.0) Transsexualism
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood
(F65) Disorders of sexual preference
(F65.0) Sexual fetishism
(F65.1) Fetishistic transvestism
(F65.2) Exhibitionism
(F65.3) Voyeurism
(F65.4) Paedophilia
(F65.5) Sadomasochism
(F65.6) Multiple disorders of sexual preference
(F65.8) Other disorders of sexual preference Frotteurism Necrophilia Zoophilia
(F66) Psychological and behavioural disorders associated with sexual development and orientation
(F66.0) Sexual maturation disorder
(F66.1) Ego-dystonic sexual orientation
(F66.2) Sexual relationship disorder
(F66.8) Other psychosexual development disorders
(F66.9) Psychosexual development disorder, unspecified
Quotes from ICD-10 itself:
Fetish objects vary in their importance to the individual. In some cases they simply serve to enhance sexual excitement achieved in ordinary ways (e.g. having the partner wear a particular garment).
Sexual orientation by itself is not to be regarded as a disorder.
In other words: If you are GAY you may drive. But if you are excited when your wife wears high heels then you are disqualified.
Full disclosure: I live in Russia.
There people listed as "female" are not allowed to drive.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Why are you typing in a Sean Connery accent?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
UBER will still hire them and when something goes bad uber's insurance can get out of it by saying we don't cover unlicensed drivers.
I've heard a transperson dispute that, saying that even where people are 100% cool with them, they still feel awful about the mind/body mismatch, to the point of depression, self-harming etc. Gender dysphoria can still be a mental illness even if transsexualism per se isn't.
Though of course, not in any sane jurisdiction should that prevent you from driving.
Would you be happy with yourself if you had the wrong body parts? There is so much negativism about transsexualism from a minority of the population that it tends to drown out the fact that the majority are okay with it. After all, it's the same with the bullies back in school - sure, 99% of the kids don't beat you up, but that 1% makes a lot of kids not want to get up in the morning to go to school. They can actually become physically ill from the stress. Would you say that they had a mental illness?
Obviously the correct course with any medical problem is effective medical treatment. If you had, say, a cleft palette and couldn't get treatment, you'd be pretty depressed too, no? Maybe to the point of self-harm by trying to fix it yourself?
Now, I'm not disagreeing totally with what you're saying - the negative reactions of others don't help, and the removal of transsexualism as a mental disorder was a big step towards normalizing the situation. Is gender dysphoria a mental illness? I'm okay with that. After all, if it's classified as a mental illness, then that opens up the path to treatment. If we can't make the mind match the body, let's make the body match the mind. And once it's treated (one or more of hormones, surgery, therapy) then they're no longer dysphoric.
Of course, one big problem with saying that it's a mental illness is that a lot of people think "it's all in your head, yo should just pull yourself out of it." The same way that they treat people with major depressive disorder or ptsd or anxiety disorder. The other big problem is that transsexuals themselves delay seeking help because in many cases we've also bought into the myth that we can "pull ourselves out of it" because we're afraid of the negative reactions from family, friends, coworkers, etc. Can't be done, and you will lose some friends - but with friends like that, who needs enemies :-)
(me gets ready to be flamed by those in the community who refuse to accept gender dysphoria as a valid diagnosis / disorder)
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
And a lot of the reason for them being unhappy is how the rest of the world treats them. That's not their fault.
Well, the Russians bring this on themselves by continuously electing a "strong leader" who can "stand up to the West" because it has relegated them to a has-been world power.
Oh, you meant transgendered people.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
If your values include oppressing people for what they are, especially if they do nothing that is in any way harmful to your population or country, your values are wrong. Period.
And yes, that means that the values of the US need some heavy review, too. Didn't say that they were right in any way.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.
tl;dr having a gay grandad makes women more fertile
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Well, here we have to separate psychology as a science from the political process of writing the DSM. Within psych I generally see agreement (when people are willing to speak on it) that pedophilia, like homosexualty, should not be on the list. Research on the subject is historically extremely corrupt, with the vast majority of 'it is an illness' papers exclusively using the prison population as the sole source of subjects, which is kinda like using only people convicted of sexual assault as examples of hetrosexuality, kinda a joke.
However, it is a deeply political issue, one that is not helped by LGBT (well, LG at least) activists and leaders have integrated that particular moral panic into their platform, so the political pressure to remove homosexualty came with the added baggage of ensuring pedophila stayed on the list.
This, however, is quite separate from the actual research or even treatment fields of psychology. It is kinda like comparing the congressional committee on science and technology to actual scientists. One is political, the other actually has work to do.
Let me get this straight: if someone wants to be Napoleon - let them and buy them bicorne as part of the treatment?