Slashdot Mirror
Local Motors Looks To Disrupt the Auto Industry With 3D-Printed Car Bodies
An anonymous reader writes: Local Motors solicits design ideas through crowdsourcing, allows anyone to use open source software to contribute ideas, and then 3D prints car bodies according to the chosen specs in a matter of days. To prove they mean business, Local Motors 3D-printed a car on the floor of the Detroit Auto Show last week. "It took 44 hours to print the Strati’s 212 layers. Once 3D printing is complete, the Strati moves to a Thermwood CNC router—a computer-controlled cutting machine that mills the finer details—before undergoing the final assembly process, which adds the drivetrain, electrical components, wiring, tires, gauges, and a showroom-ready paint job."
Here's another big difference from the current auto industry: "Customers can also bring their vehicles in at any time for hardware and software upgrades, or they can choose to melt their vehicle down and, for instance, add a seat. Because Local Motors uses a distributed manufacturing system to make only what is purchased, it doesn't stock inventory. Anyone can come into a Local Motors microfactory, use its design lab, and work on a vehicle project free of charge."
Here's another big difference from the current auto industry: "Customers can also bring their vehicles in at any time for hardware and software upgrades, or they can choose to melt their vehicle down and, for instance, add a seat. Because Local Motors uses a distributed manufacturing system to make only what is purchased, it doesn't stock inventory. Anyone can come into a Local Motors microfactory, use its design lab, and work on a vehicle project free of charge."
So that the car could be made in the living room.
Everyone forgot the size of the door....
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
That's awesome, but how does that relate to crash-testing & safety standards?
Are these such low-volume the normal regulations don't apply?
Do they embed reinforcements or print around a base frame?
Sounds like an awesome concept, but so many questions...
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rule...
Life is not for the lazy.
In reality all this lets you do is reskin a standard car with any sort of body that you want, but under the hood it is still the same as every other car. Which is probably still a good thing - otherwise maintenance becomes a nightmare.
Yeah, I'll bet the auto manufacturers are really losing sleep over this 'disruption'. Gee, they can print out a body in only 44 hours - what's it take a real manufacturer, 2 seconds? And how does a car that 'anybody' can design even begin to meet safety standards? Or are safety standards just another 'regulatory capture'?
First of all FFS put a link to the actual company in the the summary, and don;t just link to a blog talking about it. How hard is that to do? Local Motors
Ok .. its a 3d printed body of a car that slips onto a pre-built electric car chassis (from Renault according to their FAQ). But the big question I have is about this statement in the FAQ:
Does it drive?
Hell yeah. Once the 3D-printed car is cleared by U.S. vehicle rules and regulations, it will be drivable on public roads; our goal is to complete this in 2015.
What I don't know about US car regulations is what is needed to certify a car as being able to drive on the road. The classic manufacturers basically get a particular model certified and then stamp out millions that conform to that, and have QA departments that verify what they produce is what the expect to be producing.
But in this case the car is effectively being made from scratch each time on a small jobbing basis. So does that mean that every instance of one of theses cars needs to be certified on a per car basis?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I'm just waiting for the established automakers to buy a few new 'rule changes' in the NTSB to make these illegal...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Local Motors is an investment of Bre Petis, of Makerbot fame, as noted on his web page.
I don't know if it is deliberate viral marketing strategy of his or just good investment instinct, but I have noticed that products which make headlines on tech sites trace back to his investments. Another example is the new LIDAR offered at SparkFun from PulsedLight, which, according to this YouTube video, is linked to DragonInnovation.com, another Petis investment.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
So will the Tesla-haters (other than the self-serving parasites Elon has made obsolete) like this, or hate it even more?
If only I could think of a car analogy to help me decide!
Why would they need a new rule? I am pretty sure the existing ones will do just fine.
I was wondering how long it would be before some idiot started complaining about regulatory capture. Certainly didn't take long.
An modern auto plant turns out a vehicle approximately once every minute. These vehicles tax 44 hours per unit. The US alone purchases 16M vehicles/year. How will this ever be competitive?
Of course if one reads the article, they are mainly looking at this for prototyping vehicles, particularly military ones, but not the actual production of vehicles. So in short, this is about using 3D printing to prototype something before going to full production. Haven't we been doing that since the 1970s?
If you think Tesla ruffled some feathers by promoting direct to consumer selling, wait until this takes off. ( if ever )
.. . . lol
Car manufacturers will have KITTENS once they realize their parts department becomes irrelevant when any third party business can now print compatible parts out for a fraction of what the dealerships charge for them. Things like doors, body panels, and the like.
I wonder how long it would take for them to introduce some sort of DRM model into vehicle parts .
Instead of them printing it, they'll send the instructions to your home maker for a one-time build (or just give you the plans why not?). Instantly.
[*] Sorry if you got Macgyver theme song running in your head.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
How many parts do you suppose an average AutoZone sells in a day? Now, imagine that instead of having those parts stocked (either in the store or within a day), they have all the materials, space, and tooling to MANUFACTURE those parts. How much manufacturing space do they need in order to meet the same turn-around time as today? How much is all that space, materials, and time going to cost? You are just plain crazy if you think that model will EVER be more effective than high-speed manufacturing using stamping, injection molding, and vacuum forming.
Do you really think you stopped getting tools made at your local blacksmith because they were MORE efficient than factories?
From the website: https://localmotors.com/3d-pri...
Is the entire car 3D printed?
Everything on the car that could be integrated into a single material piece has been printed. This includes the chassis/frame, exterior body, and some interior features. The mechanical components of the vehicle, like battery, motors, wiring, and suspension, are sourced from Renault’s Twizy, an electric powered city car.
I am reminded of the anti copyright infringement commercial "Would you steal a car?". No, but I would copy a car.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
What struck me as the most interesting part of this article was the concept of taking your car to the shop, removing the drive train, and melting the rest down to be used to print a new car.
This would be fantastic. All of a sudden, getting into a crash doesn't mean you have to junk the whole car. You can salvage the body and a lot of the parts (in theory). Wait a week or two and voila, you have a brand new product.
In theory we should be doing this with existing cars, but they just don't seem to be built for it, or there's no facilities that will take them for recycling. If you start out with this as part of the life cycle of the vehicle, well, that could be really cool. This could drastically reduce the price of a vehicle if people are recycling their car parts since you don't have to source nearly as many new materials.
Questions about safety and durability can be addressed over time, I'm sure, and hopefully they won't be so lightweight that they can't be driven in the winters up North.
Love sees no species.
Regulatory capture is the new Nazi/ Goodwin.
It is like these people want the USA to look like China once again with smog filled cities, posioned water supplies, cars that kill every time there is a 10 mph accident as the human body can't take it.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Tell me the frame isn't printed plastic, please. Safety ratings? Top speed? Crash tests? Price? Sounds cool, but I'd rather not die in a shower of plastic bits when an inattentive SUV driver plows into me during rush hour.
It is printed ABS with carbon fiber reinforcement. It seems to be a unibody: "Everything on the car that could be integrated into a single material piece has been printed. This includes the chassis/frame, exterior body, and some interior features."
I don't see how it can meet safety standards, but they seem to think it possible: "Once the 3D-printed car is cleared by U.S. vehicle rules and regulations, it will be drivable on public roads; our goal is to complete this in 2015."
For repair, I guess you just scoop up the broken pieces, melt them down and print a new one.
Consider that Local Motors most likely found and are exploiting loopholes (e.g. hobbyist car-building from scratch, which is still quite active.) Consider further that they wouldn't have attracted a dime of venture funding without at least some plan to exploit existing legal loopholes.
So - you made the assertion, you get to prove it by naming at least one existing rule or law that could be used to slap them down.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I would presume scooters and motorcycles have way easier standards to meet since they don't have to do anything to protect the rider - I wonder if it would make more sense to start by producing those. Custom scooter/motorcycle designs could be pretty cool.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
We can call it "People's Car", but just for the sake of being cool we can translate it to German and use that.
Consider that Local Motors themselves said the cars are not street legal.
I had not considered the 'we're disruptive so laws don't apply to us' aspect. Assuming they want to operate as a legitimate company and not have a bunch of dead customers, I am sure even you could find some laws in here that would make a 'design it yourself' car made out of printed plastic just a bit of a problem, especially in the 'crashworthiness' section.
> most likely found and are exploiting loopholes. Consider further that they wouldn't have attracted a dime of venture funding without at least some plan to exploit existing legal loopholes.
Much like Uber had "some plan to exploit existing legal loopholes". Also that TV service, I've forgotten the name, whose loophole was having thousands of antennas, one for each customer.
Or Megaupload "we run a file hosting service, just like Dropbox".
Or Rick Perry, who was recently indicted, though he thought he had a legal loophole.
3D printing is great for small volume items that you don't want to stock or are customized each time.
They are not so good for high volume parts. This may make an interesting custom body building option, but a Toyota replacement it is not. The article seemed to imply that the body itself was $10,000+. For a mass car manufacturer the body is $1,000, painted (material, energy and direct labour). The other issue is the properties of material that can be used. Can a 3d printer use galvanized steel? Or make engine blocks (high pressure, cannot have cracks or voids in the cylinder walls)?
In the end maybe for the body mod crowd, not the mass market.
No. Lookit, printing a car body in 44 hours is a joke. Any auto plant in the world can probably turn out a thousand or so a day.
If anything this might be disruptive to MAACO or some other body shop -- dent up your fusion, and they can print out a replacement panel in a day or two.
3d printing is cool, but right now (and probably forever) it's just hype.
Try this: Crash safety testing.
Well, assuming the article saying that the consumer can "design" it really means design, and not just select from a few options to make it custom.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
No factory in the world can custom build you a car body in 44 hours based on a design you just finished.
Because Uber has faced zero regulatory issues after getting its funding?
You can build a full VW Beetle from 3rd party parts. Quite literally, you could have absolutely no parts sourced from Volkswagen or their OEM manufacturers at all. It's an expensive hobby, but people do it.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
People have been designing their own car bodies for many decades. They are called hot rods. Very few regulations apply. 3D printing is capable of creating radically strong structures. It is simply due to the fact that they easily do what machining finds next to impossible and on top of that there need be no seams or joints to fail. Compare the thin walls of a plastci milk jug to metal of the same thickness and that plastic is quite strong, lite weight, and free of rust or corrosion issues. Make that same skin a bit thicker and you can't hurt it with a sledge hammer. 3D printing is my best pick for the ultimate, modern, disruptive technology. China just 3D printed a six story apartment building. Workers best be prepared for a shocking change in just about every facet of their lives. Immagine two workers completing a six story apartment building in 48 hours using 3D printing. The plumbing and wiring conduits can be printed into the walls. We might get to the point where the slab the building sits on is 3D printed and just maybe robots will man the printers so that humans have zero involvement. everyone wave by by to the construction trades.
If the car is really dirty, the heck with washing it. Just turn it in and have it reprinted. :) Ok, maybe not. But:
Reprint if you have a fender-bender. Hailstorm. Cat climbed in an open window and sprayed your seats.
Just reprint the car. Love the idea of having it melted down and re-using the material(s.)
I suspect the feds will have something to say about safety issues, though.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
the free market solves all problems.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Motor - 5 bhp, 62-mile range, Top Speed - approx. 50mph*
Not quite the definition of 'car', 3D printed or no.
Not interested. I prefer to have cars with proven crash safety features, cars that meet Euro nCAP 5 star rating. Somehow I doubt these would meet even 1 star ratings.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Consider that Local Motors themselves said the cars are not street legal.
'Street Legal' can mean many different things. In many cases this would effectively be a 'hobby car' - IE built by the owner, one-off, etc... In many states making one street legal is around a 10 item checklist - does it have brakes? Does it have functional brake lights? Can it turn? Functional turn signals? Windscreen, headlights?
Safety of the occupants of said vehicle is not really addressed, just that they aren't a rampant danger to the other people on the road.
Emissions can be tougher.
It ends up on the definition of 'manufactured', they may be utilizing a loophole which even auto makers exploit for things like their concept cars - one off cars are crafted, not manufactured. Ergo exempt from everything, but they have to actually be 'crafted', IE hand built in a one-off fashion.
With the 3D printer system they could be leasing the equipment and assistance to the buyer, who actually triggers the machine. Since his modifications make the vehicle one-off, built by him(technically), it's not 'manufactured' under the definitions.
Much like how you can buy a complete kit car that's also exempt. You just have to put it together.
I don't read AC A human right
Well, assuming the article saying that the consumer can "design" it really means design, and not just select from a few options to make it custom.
If the manufactured number is small enough, no crash safety testing needs to be done.
Depending on the number they're anticipating on selling and the amount of modification the individuals are doing, they could come under the line because they're just not selling enough of them or even, by legal trickery like 'renting' the machine to the customer who uses it to build his car(with help) and the amount of customization/design work the buyer does, every car each customer makes could be 'unique' enough to count separately and come under the limit.
Printed plastic isn't strong enough, but I wonder if this might find business applications? Vehicles with customized shells to accommodate specialized equipment? I'm thinking of everything from a slot for a generator on vans/trucks used on construction sites to a custom shell designed for a pizza oven to be inserted into a delivery vehicle for the ultimate in freshness.
I don't read AC A human right
Yeah, but you can print an awful lot of things if you have that much power available...
Remember: Some 3d printers print in metal, concrete, tissue cultures, etc... Some of these require rather more power to run the 'print head'.
I don't read AC A human right
The only thing 3D printed on this vehicle was the body. None of the running gear (you know, the parts that usually break) were printed.
The only part of the automaking process that they changed was body/chassis assembly. That part is already highly automated, with robots doing most of the work. Yay, so you get all the automation, with the addition of greater customization. However, the vast majority of the labor is in assembly of the rest of the car. And if every car off the line is different, a lot of the efficiencies you get with the moving assembly line go completely out the window.
Being an old fart; I remember when finding after market parts for vehicles more than a few years old was easy. Then it became fashionable in the 1990s to have a quarterly inventory tax (implemented by many states). Having a recurring inventory tax made it prohibitively expensive to keep ready stocks of repair parts. Even the utility industry went to "just in time" ordering as they were being taxed on their warehouses full of spare pumps, motors, valves.
3D printing looks like an easy way to get a new quarter panel for that 1978 toyota you want to restore. The auto makers no longer stock parts for vehicles over about 5 years old, Custom printing of parts sounds like a wonderful way to supply parts without having to keep an inventory on had and be taxed for it. Wait a minute; that would be a reason for regulators trying to legislate such a business out of the picture.
NRRPT/RCT
True, golf carts aren't great if you have to go across town, but apparently they're quite popular in the retirement areas down in Florida. If you don't walk so well anymore, the weather's nice(though full cab versions exist), and all you want to do is go to the local convenience store or local community center they're great.
You also have UTVs (Utility Task Vehicles), which are golf-car like, but generally more powerful. They're popular in many industrial areas for zipping around while taking up less space than full size vehicles would need. Quicker to get in and out of as well.
Summary: I wouldn't underestimate their ability to sell and be useful in niche categories.
I don't read AC A human right
The answer to that would be to let the 'local automakers' leave your country rather than prop them up. (like happened here, Australia) Short term pain, but probably long term gain. Carmakers like Elon Musk/Tesla with very different car making models aren't likely to oppose this.
And commit improvements back to the repository.