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Mississippi - the Nation's Leader In Vaccination Rates
HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that Mississippi — which ranks as one of the worst states for smoking, obesity and physical inactivity — seldom is viewed as a leader on health issues. But it is one of two states that permit neither religious nor philosophical exemptions to its vaccination program. Only children with medical conditions that would be exacerbated by vaccines may enroll in Mississippi schools without completing the immunization schedule, which calls for five vaccines. With a vaccination rate of greater than 99.7%, Mississippi leads the national median by five percentage points and has the country's highest immunization rate among kindergarten students.
However, in recent weeks, the nearly unbending nature of Mississippi's law requiring students to be vaccinated has been in jeopardy, with two dozen lawmakers publicly supporting an exemption for "conscientious beliefs" turning Mississippi into one more battleground between medical experts who champion vaccinations and parents who fear the government's role in medical decision-making. "We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are," said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III, before lawmakers met to consider a bill that would have expanded exceptions to the vaccine requirement. Members of the education committee for the House of Representatives, in effect, endorsed the state's current approach. By a voice vote, they advanced a heavily amended version of the bill that now calls for only technical changes to Mississippi's law, which has been largely untouched since the late 1970s. The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests. "If a medical professional thinks it's wise not to vaccinate, then that will be the gospel," said House Education Committee Chairman John Moore, R-Brandon.
However, in recent weeks, the nearly unbending nature of Mississippi's law requiring students to be vaccinated has been in jeopardy, with two dozen lawmakers publicly supporting an exemption for "conscientious beliefs" turning Mississippi into one more battleground between medical experts who champion vaccinations and parents who fear the government's role in medical decision-making. "We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are," said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III, before lawmakers met to consider a bill that would have expanded exceptions to the vaccine requirement. Members of the education committee for the House of Representatives, in effect, endorsed the state's current approach. By a voice vote, they advanced a heavily amended version of the bill that now calls for only technical changes to Mississippi's law, which has been largely untouched since the late 1970s. The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests. "If a medical professional thinks it's wise not to vaccinate, then that will be the gospel," said House Education Committee Chairman John Moore, R-Brandon.
well, someone had to post it.
Parents are granted a tremendous amount of leeway over what to do with their children. But at the end of the day, children are not "things" for parents to do with as they wish. They're people. A parent may have a sincere and deeply held belief that children don't actually need to eat, that if they meditate enough they can gather the energy they need from the sun. But that doesn't mean that Child Protective Services aren't going to get involved if the parents refuse to feed their child. No, there's no easy definition for where the line between parental rights / belief dominate and where child abuse begins should be. But there must be a line.
And ignoring the fact that the person we're talking about here is too young to make informed decisions, even if that wasn't the case, it still wouldn't be a reasonable argument. Even if we were talking about adults, while you're free to endanger yourself to your heart's content, you don't have the right to endanger others. You may feel that drunk driving is perfectly safe and it's just your personal choice and drunk driving laws are an infliction on your freedom of movement, but the law sees it differently for damned good reason, and you will be punished if caught. Want to endanger yourself? Fine, go do it. Want to endanger me? Nope, and thank $DEITY that there are laws and law enforcement to stop you. You don't have an inalienable right to put your neighbors at risk of mowing them over with your car, and you don't have an inalienable right to walk around them as a disease vector.
I would have you sign my banana, but it's on the roof.
Does Mississippi have more Autistic children than other states with lower vaccination rates? I think that should be looked at so maybe we can show that this is not the cause of Autism.
Its because they don't have internet, so don't know they should be scared of vaccinations.
In ancient Rome the children where legally the property of the father until they where old enough.
Some states in USA do the same, they allow the parents to make choices for their children that are scientifically proven to be deadly in certain circumstances. Thereby the USA are legally stating that in the eyes of the state, children are the legal property of their parents in certain cases.
con- against, anti
No, "contra-" means against. "Con-" means "with".
Your "conscientious" rights don't include the right to put other kids who *can't* get immunized at risk (or adults who weren't immunized as kids). If you want to conscientiously object to getting your kid immunized, then a school should have the right to conscientiously refuse to admit your kid. Create a special conscientious school or something and keep the fuck away from the rest of us.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
I think medicaid could be a factor. I'm from Canada, so I really like my tax funded healthcare. I think that specifically funding certain things like vaccinations to assure that everybody can receive them without cost is a huge advantage to the entire country. I can see why some people wouldn't want to pay for somebody else's knee surgery, or heart transplant if they brought it on themselves by their own lifestyle, but things like vaccinations help the entire population, are just about every person is born susceptible to these diseases. So it makes sense to make sure that as many people as possible are immunized. If somebody isn't immunized, then even the rich people who are insured are at risk in the event that their infants are too young to be vaccinated, or couldn't be vaccinated because of medical complications.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Why? It's not like infections only happen in schools. Or that students spend 100% of their time at school. Look at the Disneyland outbreak.
I think that you are under the impression that it is ONLY transmitted via sex or needles.
I think GP means the 'conscientious objection' that would basically allow any parent to refuse the vaccinations for any reason they see fit.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I'm no antivaxxer, but do they have the lowest rates of autism, or merely the lowest /diagnosed/ rates? Given their poverty one can imagine fewer people going to the doctor in those states.
Hep B can be contracted in many ways. The hepatitis virus is extremely hardy as compared to other similar systemic diseases' virii, for example, HIV is far more delicate and cannot survive outside the body for long. Hep B hangs around on surfaces for much longer; if someone with Hep B bleeds on something and then a kid touches it, they can contract Hep B.
It's not always unprotected sex and illegal drug use. Sometimes it's a kid touching something.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
By "moderate anti-vaxxer", you mean "I've got Dunning-Kruger and think I know more than doctors and scientists who study this for a living". You're hardly the only slashdotter who wrongly thinks he's smarter than actual experts.
"I'm a moderate anti-vaxxer"
In other words, you're only somewhat stupid?
Note the glaring contradiction in your analysis. You're advocating that we allow the U.S. federal government to take over the entire USA medical system. Yet, it is this very same government that pursues the policy of global military imperialism. There is no "other side" on this issue. We have two dominant political parties who have managed to exclude everyone else from the political system. Both of these parties agree on this aggressive foreign policy and global military presence.
The debate about vaccines in the public policy sphere is about whether or not the government can force you to inject something into your body. This is the government that spies on its citizens, engages in torture, incarcerates and assassinates its citizens without charge or trial, refuses to prosecute government employees for blatant criminal activity, etc. etc. You think I'm going to let them stick a needle in my arm and just trust their word that it's good for me? These people would inject U.S. citizens with the live AIDS virus or antibiotic resistant TB if it served their purposes. I think I'd rather borrow a needle from a junkie than a federal bureaucrat.
Everywhere I've lived in the US, vaccinations are provided gratis by the local health department.
People with insurance usually go to a doctor and get their vaccinations through them, but the health department will also do it for free. (That's the same health department that will run free STD tests.) Often, the real battle is communicating to people that these resources are available, fighting the stigma associated with getting free services from the government, and the practical issues of getting a working person over to a busy government office.
As many childhood vaccinations are practically mandatory in the US, as they're required for attending elementary school (which is also mandatory), it makes sense that they're freely available.
As a result, I think, of Obamacare, all childhood vaccines and most adult vaccines (including flu) are free to anyone with insurance.
Although we may agree on the need for less porous borders, the CDC actually has solid data on the causes of outbreaks like the current one. And, they don't typically start with "foreign invaders" - They start with unvaccinated legal US citizens going on vacation and coming back infected.
So yeah, idiots choosing not to vaccinate, whether because Jenny or Jesus said so, do count as the entire problem.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If somebody isn't immunized, then even the rich people who are insured are at risk in the event that their infants are too young to be vaccinated, or couldn't be vaccinated because of medical complications.
The self-indulgent rich are actually a huge part of the vaccination problem. Check out where some of the latest outbreaks have been- Hollywood, Disney world, etc- not places for people with no money.
A journalist named Seth Mnookin wrote a book, "The Panic Virus: A True Story of Medicine, Science and Fear", and was Interviewed recently:
Further:
There's also a great comment attached, by a poster named 'Tom Billings (qualifications unknown)', that gets into the causes of autism: Genetic
Actually, it's simpler than that. It's just very unpopular, because it says things about humans we don't like to hear. You don't need government subsidizing something for it to increase. That is only one cause of some increases in some things.
The genes associated with autism are mostly SNPs and single folds. Single nucleotide polymorphisms and single folds are single mutation events. You would expect those to be just as common throughout history as a result. So, why don't we see in the past the same rates of autism we see today? It's brutally simple. The children born with such genetic differences mostly didn't survive to reproductive age. They were murdered.
His comment goes on and it's worth a read.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
No, you're blatantly wrong. There are three potential reasons for an exemption: religious, personal, or medical. Let me put this in capitals so you can understand:
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE GODDAMN 50 STATES ALLOWS A MEDICAL EXEMPTION FOR VACCINATIONS.
Source: CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/
I can see waiting on Varicella until around age 9 or 10, as pre-puberty symptoms of chicken pox are generally pretty mild.
It's pretty stupid to NOT get the Varicella vaccine after the onset of puberty if you haven't had chicken pox yet, as symptoms increase significantly as you age. IIRC, symptoms post-puberty can include permanent debilitation and/or death depending on person and age.
For the other vaccines listed, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not get them as early as you can, as all of those diseases have a high risk of debilitation and/or death regardless of age.
I've found very few MDs who have any kind of listening skills. I've known some brilliant ones. But many of them are shills for the drug companies, pushing unnecessary drugs and just all-around being ineffective. We're told to revere doctors, but the reality is that MDs are not scientists -- they're technicians, and often not terribly skilled ones. These facts are not lost on their patents. People just don't trust doctors. Vaccines are just one more dubious thing that MDs push on us.
This distrust of the medical profession totally understandable, and you shouldn't call people morons for feeling this way. Most people are not scientists who can do their own research. Their only source of information is these doctors they don't like. If we want to fix the vaccination problem, we have to fix the doctors and get them to stop doing stupid things like prescribing antidepressants for autoimmune diseases. [*]
The science of vaccines is solid. As with anything, it's not entirely risk-free, but the risks are worth the benefits for protection against some serious diseases. It's also irresponsible to put other people at risk. IF (huge IF) there is any correlation with autism, that correlation is miniscule compared to the effects of the other shit we put in our bodies (horrible American diet, pollution, etc.). But people are much more willing to skip a vaccination appointment than not eat that Big Mac.
Incidentally, I heard recently something interesting about flu shots. If those who decide which viruses are being innoculated against predict them correctly, then flu shots work great. If, on the other hand, their predictions are too far off the mark, the flu shot may actually make you MORE vulnerable to viruses that they missed. Of course, you should verify this claim before deciding not to get a flu shot. This isn't a matter of effectiveness of vaccines but rather an issue of getting the right ones.
[*] In medical school doctors are expliclty taught that if someone comes in with a constellation of symptoms, especially if they have them written down, then that person is a hypochondriac. The thing is, auto-immune diseases are not exactly a 1-in-a-million phenomenon. Hashimoto's and Lupus are quite well understood. They come with constellations of symptoms, and they also come with brain fog, which basically forces people to write down their symptoms. My wife had to perform her own differential diagnosis based on the symptoms to determine (abductively) that Hashimoto's is the clear best explanation, but nevertheless, she had to fight with one of the few endocrinologists in the area just to get tested. Of course she tested positive, but even in the face of the evidence, this doctor still doesn't want to engage in any kind of treatment plan. Why? Because endocrinologists make all their money from pushing drugs on diabetics and have no interest in anything else.
That's amazing. What an amazing story. Get this out to the scientific community pronto, they've been pissing about doing studies of tens of thousands of people for decades, but fuck that, because you got sick a bit as a kid and now that you haven't been vaccinated you don't get sick. So yeah let's chuck the vaccines, based on what you think you experienced.
TLDR anecdotes count for precisely fuck-all.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
The Onion as usual got right to the core of it :)
"Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back."
Vaccine refusers are some of the most odious, self-entitled pricks on this planet.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Those with insurance no longer have to pay for childhood vaccinations. It's covered 100% by insurance as required by law, as are the well baby(child) check ups for I think the first 5 years.
The anti-vaccine people are the most selfishly stupid people on this planet. Citing a discredited report linking vaccines to autism, taking medical advice from a media whore that appeared on Oprah over that of scientists and doctors, quoting conspiracy theory websites, and claiming "special knowledge" that is being "kept hidden", they put the very young who have not been immunized at risk of completely preventable diseases.
They also put those who are on anti-rejection drugs after a transplant at risk. And those who are chemotherapy. And those who are on retroviral drugs.
All they think about is their own paranoid delusions of a grand conspiracy "out to get them."
John Cleese describes them better than I can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20587679
I have a friend who, in her thirties, just got measles from one of her son's friends, and now she's lost her hearing -- a fairly common, and often permanent, complication of measles. She's trying to sue the parents, on the basis of one of them posting about how they didn't vaccinate their child because they didn't believe in it. She figures that if a person who has AIDS and has unprotected sex with people can be charged with murder -- a criminal act -- she should be able to win a civil judgment for at least negligence.
If it works, it could be an interesting new chapter in the vaccination story, and does raise the question of why AIDS is handled differently than measles.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
When I was a kid I got a lot of vaccines. My income was zero. Now I get almost no vaccines and my income has skyrocketed.
Play Command HQ online
The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests.
Normally, I would agree that this would be fine.
However, the irrational anti-vaccine hysteria has become too widespread.
What is going to happen, is there are going to be improper waivers given in the name of a "health issue" constructed for the purposes of avoiding vaccination.
Inevitably, there are going to be some medical professionals who are persuaded. They should be students of science, but there are plenty in the industry who are not scientists and could be persuaded by some specious arguments.
Therefore, I would say that their waiver should be subject to review. If there is any doubt; it should not be adequate just to find one professional to sign off on something. There should have to be a documented basis that would be accepted by the industry or by the average professional.
I've found very few MDs who have any kind of listening skills. I've known some brilliant ones.
Yeah, I know what you mean. In talking to several doctors, I get the distinct feeling that I'm on the flip side of what happens when my mother-in-law has a computing problem: she hands me the computer and starts offering endless way-off-the-mark suggestions which I have to forcibly ignore while trying to concentrate on troubleshooting the real problem.
Being listened to makes us feel better (in pretty much any human situation, but especially when our health is on the line). However, we as patients are generally dumping a load of crap on the doc when it comes to listing a "constellations of symptoms". It takes great patience and integrity for a doctor to diligently listen through all of that verbage for the 1-in-a-million gem, and most docs don't have that sort of time.
I'm still learning how to use doctors effectively, and the best thing I've learned over the past few years is that... if you've got a disease that's poorly understood, find the docs who have the expertise on that condition. (And hope they aren't just pill-pushers, I guess.) My general internist thought I needed a pacemaker, the cardiologist controlled the worst symptoms with drugs, and the dysautonomic disease specialist knew what my problem was and established a treatment plan to fix it. Something that was a complete mystery to the first two doctors was a routine case for the third.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
It's nice to see some actual science in this conversation. I don't know if I consider 1 additional severe reaction in 2300 to be worth the inconvenience of separate vaccines, but at least there's a rational basis for it.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
When I was a kid and got vaccinations, I could not fly an airplane. Now I don't get any and know how to fly. If we just stop with the vaccines, the Air Force can save a TON of money and get rid of pilot training!
yes. absolutely. Don't exercise. Smoke. Eat shitty food. Become 100 pounds overweight. Then expect me to pay for your diabetes medicine and lung surgery. Fuck no
No one expects you to do shit. I do expect insurance companies to take care of those they ensure
In other words, you DO expect us to pay for them. If you're asking someone other than the person who gets sick to pay for the treatments, then you're asking all of us to. Neither insurance companies nor governments are pools of magic money, that money comes from insured folks and tax payers.